Something still bugs me about Batman and Infinite Crisis

[CMBMOOL]

First off sorry if this is stated before, but I truly don't understand. :(


I mean I could understand that Batman may have learned his lesson of mistrust against the heroes, in his own way, and learn to trust his extended family again, but who does the blame fall on for the construction of Brother I:


Batman for building the thing to moniter all heroes and villains, for not accepting the heroes stating their sorry for the mindwipe, for mistrusting the fate into Max lord's hands without knowing what he's capable of. and the list goes on....

OR

THe Power Pact group for mindwiping Batman and several villains, for not admitting their mistake and for not trying to apoligze to Batman and trying to do all they can to convince him to trust them again.

Also why did the JLA broke up just because of the Big 3 arugments over the Omac situtation, I'm sure that they, the Power Pact, could try to work things out without the Big 3 watching over them, right ?

Once again Sorry if this is stated before, but I just don't understand. :(

[The Batman]

I think the point was that there was plenty of blame to go around. The Power Pact was wrong for what they did to Batman and Batman was wrong for going to the length of building Brother I.

[Choppa]

Yeah I didn't really get it either. Why did Nightwing's injury cause him to suddenly pull a gun on Alex Luthor? I mean even if Nightwing had died, why would that suddenly push him over the edge?

And also, what actually caused Batman to trust his friends again? Was it Hal saving him from Brother Eye or something else? I'm not too clear on this.

[OverMaster]

Yeah I didn't really get it either. Why did Nightwing's injury cause him to suddenly pull a gun on Alex Luthor? I mean even if Nightwing had died, why would that suddenly push him over the edge?

I thought Nightwing's injury was the last straw on the camel's back that almost pushed Bruce too far. He had just come out of the Gang War, Jason Todd's return, the Spoiler's death, Leslie's betrayal of his trust, the whole ordeals with Hush, his conflicts with the rest of the JL, *and* the whole chaos of the Crisis. It was understandable he was on the edge then.

[Kara Zor El]

I felt that seeing superboy die as a result of Alex Luthor's mad plan was what pushed Bruce to almost kill him. He might not have been his partner but Bruce would hgave been greatly effected by the death of a young hero and indeed he was.
As for the question, the blame goes to the whole lot of them. The heroes of the DCU messed up big, they paid for it big and those that survived grew from it and became better people.

[IamtheRock3]

also not to mention Alex help use omac against him

and responble for like BILLIONS of dead lives, or seem to be capable of more

that enough to tick a guy off.

[Lorendiac]

Here's one thing I don't understand: Before IC started, Batman already had a functional Lazarus Pit in his basement (the Batcave, that is) and knew how to build more of them at the drop of a hat. With that in mind, why not volunteer his services to help revive some of the true heroes who died in the line of duty during Infinite Crisis? That would go a long way toward mending his fences with any heroes who were still in a snit over the whole Brother I thing.

[Effect]

I think the mindwiping pushed things along but I think Brother Eye can only rest on Batman's shoulders. Of all the ways he could have responded he chose the way he did. So the blame belongs on him I feel.

As for trying to kill Alex. I think agree it was a combination of a lot of things. The gang wars(Spoiler dying), finding out Jason Todd was alive and not knowing what happen to him in that explosion basically at that time losing him all over again as far as he knew. Then there is all the destruction around him during the final battle, being talked to by Brother Eye, watching Superboy die and then Nightwing. He reached his limit.

It's same when Jason first died. That sent him over the edge it seems and Superman had to stop him from killing the Joker (if only Jason was told this by someone instead of being lead to believe Batman did nothing). I think Batman had hardened himself after that so it naturally took a lot more to make him reach that point but the combination of Spoiler dying and Jason returning only to seeming lose him again up to Nightwing dying (I can't stand the change. He had Robin crying over him as he was lying in a pool of blood and looked dead) that caused him to go over that edge again.

[BYC]

Batman has this hidden rage meter that when it fills, he goes nuts and tries to kill somebody. He's come close to killing more than a few occasion, Hush, Death in the Family I believe, and even Killing Joke.

Don't forget that Nightwing is Batman's son, legally and emotionally. Almost anybody would snap when they think their son is killed right in front of them.

[The Batman]

Absolutely there's what Alex did to Nightwing, plus all the death, destruction and pain his plan to create the perfect Earth caused but I also think that there's something else. I think part of his rage might be that Batman saw something of himself in Alex Luthor, and it was something he didn't like.

[Superboy Prime]

I think part of his rage might be that Batman saw something of himself in Alex Luthor, and it was something he didn't like.

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

As for the question, I believe that the blame doesnt necessarily fall directly on The Power Pact, or Batman. There is much to consider after the events of the fatal "vote" and what ultimately was it's effect on the heroes of the DCU in general to just point the definate finger of blame on either parties. And in the end, it was this kind of domino effect that also resulted in a forgotten, and supposedly erased Kal-L to return from the Paradise Dimension (I don't believe it was just for the reason of E2 Lois' health, although that was a major part of it) and set things right with the return of an earth that at the time he felt was in many ways "better" than the current.

[Choppa]

Your responses don't make any sense to me. Didn't he already come to a head when he pulled a gun on the Joker in HUSH? What was so big that caused him to suddenly lose it again?

And no one answered my second question, what caused Batman to trust people again?

[Effect]

Your responses don't make any sense to me. Didn't he already come to a head when he pulled a gun on the Joker in HUSH? What was so big that caused him to suddenly lose it again?

As I said, I feel it was a combination of things leading up to it but more specifically shortly before the end of Infinite Crisis he had his showdown with Jason Todd where Todd basically laid it all out for Batman and got emotional. I don't doubt Batman got emotional as well in that encounter. Then there was the explosion that seemingly (from Batman's POV) killed Jason again as he couldn't find him at the time. Jason lived but going from directly that (Batman most likely didn't have time to really deal with that) to the final battle in IC. Sure he seemed to have time to mend things with Nightwing but that seemed more like him realizing he might not have another chance after the situation with Jason had just ended. Then to see Superboy killed and very shortly after that Nightwing get "killed" was to much. In the span of basically a day I think, if even a full day, he seemingly loses two sons. That must have taken its toll. Then factor in all the death caused by Alex was just to much for him. Just a lot in to short of a time span that was really personal for Batman.

At least that's how I took it to be honest by reading both Batman (Under the Hood vol 2) and Infinite Crisis at the same time.

[CMBMOOL]

As I said, I feel it was a combination of things leading up to it but more specifically shortly before the end of Infinite Crisis he had his showdown with Jason Todd where Todd basically laid it all out for Batman and got emotional. I don't doubt Batman got emotional as well in that encounter. Then there was the explosion that seemingly (from Batman's POV) killed Jason again as he couldn't find him at the time. Jason lived but going from directly that (Batman most likely didn't have time to really deal with that) to the final battle in IC. Sure he seemed to have time to mend things with Nightwing but that seemed more like him realizing he might not have another chance after the situation with Jason had just ended. Then to see Superboy killed and very shortly after that Nightwing get "killed" was to much. In the span of basically a day I think, if even a full day, he seemingly loses two sons. That must have taken its toll. Then factor in all the death caused by Alex was just to much for him. Just a lot in to short of a time span that was really personal for Batman.

At least that's how I took it to be honest by reading both Batman (Under the Hood vol 2) and Infinite Crisis at the same time.

Wow, clever info gathering. :)

[Choppa]

I find that explanation hard to go on since nothing in the Batman book is really acknowledged in IC. It seems more likely to me that DC figured that they would get more exposure for Batman's change if they made it happpen in IC then in the previous crossovers that weren't as popular.