Depressing Thread

[Perpetual Failure]

Ahhhhh.... Well I was feeling down... Thinking about how I'd failed at becoming a comics-creator. And I thought, maybe people on this board had the same problem. Because the people that read and post here must be very interested in the comics-medium, and yet all of them cannot be creators in the field.

So I thought maybe people who have tried and failed to learn how to draw and write comics could post here, explaining what happened. You can either have tried and given up for whatever reason, or maybe are still keep trying but you realize now that you aren't going to be able to meet your expectations.

Well, I hope this thread gets some replies, so I won't feel so alone and pathetic. I know broken dreams are common, I'd just like to read about others. If this is in the wrong forum I am sorry, this just seemed the most appropriate place to put it.

[Shawn333]

Well, my first thought after reading this is how old are you? Unless you're 85 or older, maybe you shouldn't give up and resign yourself to never fullfilling your dreams? But the comics industry is very tough to break into. Sadly there are incredible artists who just won't. But there ARE other things you can do in the art field. If your art isn't good enough to do comicbooks, maybe you can work on a more cartoony style and do a comic strip, or go into graphic design or something. Also, how far have you went trying to break into the biz? Have you sent tons of submissions, shown your portfolio at conventions, looked into self publishing and promoting? I don't know if you're trying to do complete projects yourself, but if so, maybe just focus on one thing, either the art or the writing. Maybe try to get into the comics biz as an inker or in some other capacity if you love the medium.

I realize I'm not at the caliber of a pro comicbook artist and likely never will be. I used to want to be a comic artist, but I'm 30 years old and actually not as good as when I was 16 due to health issues. I have severe hand tremors and lack of muscle control, and even if I COULD draw as well as a pro (which I can't) it would take me 10 times longer to complete a page than a pro. And if you're not fast, you won't make it in this biz. As of now it takes me 3 hrs to draw what used to take 20 minutes. I actually gave up on drawing period for a long time untill I realized how much I missed doing it just for my own enjoyment. And so now that's what I do....draw for the fun of it just like when I started at age 3. It takes forever, but with some patience I can do some stuff that I'm happy with, and more importantly that's fun to do. So anyway....that's where I'm at. Resigned to just enjoying working on art for the sake of the artwork and personal fun.

[MaxofSteel]

All I can say dude is don't give up hope! You give folks like myself courage to take a shot at the biz as well. Getting into comics is one of my dreams for a long time too, and I understand how hard it can be.

I haven't made any attempts at appyling thus far (I plan to finish college first), but I want to start looking for opportunities sometime soon.

Anyhow, just keep trying man. And the best of luck to ya.

[Perpetual Failure]

Ah well my problem isn't trying to break into the business end. Actually I just want to do my own work, that I can be proud of. It is not important to even show my work to anyone other than myself. My problem is I can't seem to learn how to draw. I don't draw any better now than when I was 12. For the last 7 years I have been working as hard as I can to improve my artistic skills, but I have only succeeded in frustrating myself. I have tried everything I can think of: art classes, art college, private art lessons, getting help online, I asked over 300 artists if I could apprentice under them, copying artwork from all sources, drawing from life, working on perspective, drawing out of imagination, working out of guide books (including Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, How to Draw Comics The Marvel Way, Bridgman's Anatomy, Burne Hogarth's Books, Preston Blair's Animation Book, How to Draw the Natural Way and at least a dozen others) and many more methods. I feel that I am out of options. I have tried my best for almost a decade and I can call myself nothing other than a failure. Drawing is the only thing I want to do with my life, but I have discovered I hate it. Death seems like my best alternative. I'm 22 years old.

Well, I guess that is the short version of a long pointless journey. I am currently on several different anti-psychotic and anti-depressant medications, which I think is entirely the result of my failure to learn how to draw. People tell me to keep at it, to keep a positive attitude, but I just can't do it anymore. I don’t feel sorry for myself because I know that it is entirely my fault that I have failed. I try to laugh at the situation, laugh at myself. Right now I have almost no responsibilities whatsoever and lead a very easy and unstressful life. Yet I still think of drawing constantly. I don't want to live if I cannot make comic books. Hahaha.

You don’t need to try to comfort me or try to convince me that life is worth living. It doesn’t really matter anymore. Eh, and the more I tend to talk about this problem of mine, the more people seem to hate me, so if no one else has a story to share then I guess we can let this thread die. It is probably inappropriate anyway. Before I go I will share a story of failure by another board member that they posted in the Classic Comics section. I hope they don’t mind me sharing it.

First, you must understand that from the age of five on I never wanted to be anything but an artist for Marvel Comics. My whole life was planned around it.

Back when I was still in art school (I have a BA from the University of Washington) circa '79, I sent some samples (a humorous 8-page story starring Volstagg from Thor) to Marvel Art Director John Romita in hopes of getting some feedback. It was Jim Shooter who responded. While he complimented my plotting, he was quite frank about my shortcomings as a storyteller (“too coy” was how he put it). His suggested I study Steve Ditko’s Spider-Man stories to see how it should be done.

It was good advice. I bathed in Ditko (and Kirby and Colan and other artists I admired) for a year and then tried again. I sent a five page sequence of the Fantastic Four battling a villain I’d designed called the Vibranium Man and asked what he thought. This time Shooter said both my storytelling and my anatomy were professional level but I wouldn’t be able to get work until I’d mastered perspective (Neal Adams separately offered the same criticism). So it was literally back to the drawing board.

A year later, in the spring of ’81, I drew another 5-page sequence depicting Spider-Man and the Falcon battling a new villain I’d created called Thunderbird (I hadn’t heard of the X-Man of that name). This time, instead of mailing my samples, I made an appointment to meet Shooter at that summer’s San Diego Con. (I also did some Batman pages to show Dick Giordano.)

One thing I had not told Shooter up front was that I was physically handicapped and drew with my mouth. My dad, who went with me to the convention, worried that would make a difference. I hooked up with Shooter. “Oh yeah, I remember your work,” he said as he leafed through the pages. “You’ve kept working at it, I see. Good. I think you’re ready.” He then bought a comic reprinting an old Kirby Human Torch story (Strange Tales #114, if memory serves) and spent the next 45 minutes going over it with me and explaining his philosophy of comics storytelling. When we finished, Dad asked him if my drawing with my teeth mattered. Jim, bless him, said, “I don’t care if he shoves the pencil up his ass and scoots around on the paper as long as he makes his deadlines!”

What neither Jim nor I could foresee was that my disability *did* make a difference. Despite five years of college, I’d never had to do any sustained work until Marvel. I was assigned a Doctor Strange fill-in issue (at least it wasn’t Star Wars or Micronauts?I never have been any good at sci-fi). I discovered that drawing eight hours a day, every day, put a tremendous strain on my jaws, neck, lower back and even my eyes (my face is only two inches from the page when I draw). Backgrounds were particularly time consuming as manipulating the drafting tools took forever. By the end of the first week, I was in agony.

It broke my heart to give up my dream of being a Marvel Comics artist, especially after Shooter told me he felt I had “the potential to be another John Byrne” (that was a compliment back then ), but facts is facts: I was never going to be fast enough to maintain a professional career. So I walked away (so to speak).

I'm still pursuing my creative muse but I'm now focused on writing. Last July I completed a long novel about the DC super-heroes (which, for various reasons, will probably never see print) and I'm currently researching my next project, a novel and/or screenplay which will hopefully prove more marketable.

I tried to attach a sample of my art but the images keep turning out too big to download. my avatar is my work, if that helps.

Hope that was what you were looking for, General (as a fan of both Steve Rude and Nexus, I heartily approve of your nom de CBR). Thanks for asking!

Cei-U!
I summon the old news!

[Solaris]

As to what Kurt said, he had physical limitations that kept him from working on a full run comic. Had I known him back then, I would've suggested an alternative: go for a one-issue special, rather like some of the Vertigo comics were. I have one that's a prized possession: a one-comic story called "Mercy." Awesome stuff. In fact, I think I'll refer him to this thread, so he sees my response. :)

As to your work, I don't think it's an issue of your skills; I think it's an issue of your expectations. Having a longterm goal is wonderful, and needed---the problem many come into is an inability to value where your skills at for what they truly are, and to also focus on the small steps along the way.

I used to have that problem. No matter how much my work improved (and it did so *very* incrementally, if at all), I was never truly happy with it. I would look at fantastic art out there (which was where I wanted to be), look at my own stuff, decide it was crap, and be swamped with the feeling that "I'm NEVER gonna be as good an artist as 'x' person!" and walk away from it. I also got discouraged from being an artist by family, who kept pushing me to "get a real job with a regular paycheck, or you'll be in severe trouble." Being an artist is like being an actor: you have to face the fact that the "regular paycheck" scenario rarely comes along (other than in certain facets of the profession), and the way to deal with that is to be careful of your spending (and do some saving) when you're flush or get great pay, to help carry you through the lean times when you *aren't* getting much, or any, pay/sales.

As for the attituded I'd had, it took some words of experience from a friend (Patrick Blaine, aka JadeDragon on here) to help me see that the only person I had to compete with, as an artist, was myself. I quit worrying about how umpteen people out there were lightyears better than me, and started focusing on my work for what it was. I let myself see what was good about every piece, and as for the parts that weren't, I looked at those as places where I simply needed to learn more about how to see better what that particular part looks like---not what I *thought* that it *ought to* look like.

I do have a longterm goal: become a professional artist (as in, my work sells), and to do my best to improve and to learn more with every piece. I listen to criticisms as the pure gold they are, because they help me spot exactly the places I need to focus on, places I need to learn more. I listen and learn all I can from every source, and pay attention to my surroundings, training my mind to see how something actually *looks*, rather than how I think it looks. The more I do this, the better I get at remembering how, for instance, a knee looks, how the light hits it, how the skin tones vary, how the skin subtly reflects the colors around it. (I'm working on a knee right now, which is why that came to mind---it's hard, because I'm still getting a grasp on how knees look in different positions and from various angles, with various lighting and shadows.)

Anyway, I don't think it's your skills that are the problem; I think it's your attitude about them. Learn to value your art for what it is; see the good things in it, and the problem areas as *challenges*---NOT as "places I failed," or "the thing that *ruins* the picture."

I know there are people out there who just sit down and beauty follows their pencil, very rapidly. Some of them have had years of practice and schooling, while others tell you "no, I've just been drawing that way all my life---it's easy." People call the latter "natural talent"---and it's true that some folks are simply blessed with that ability. What ISN'T true is that you HAVE to have it to be a good artist. It's just a shortcut that some people have, NOT a "requirement" to be an artist.

I don't have natural talent. I've worked very hard to get where I am as an artist, and I have a long way to go. I don't think I'll *ever* stop learning. But I have to say, I've seen more progress in the past 2 years that I've had that attitude change, than in the prior 20-something years, of trying to draw. That's because I quit accepting problem areas as "failures," and started seeing them as "challenges" and "pointers to places I need to learn more." If you are determined to learn more, you will... but you have to be able to see the good parts of your art as well, and see placed where you're improving as just that: you're IMPROVING. Sometimes it takes a long time to improve an area, sometimes it doesn't. The timeline on it doesn't matter; continuing to learn and applying what you've learned is what matters.

Hope all that helps.


PS---change your user name. If you name yourself as defeated, you are.

[Rampaging Rabbit]

I wanted to be a CB artist for years, and I'm pretty darn good. But I havent got the discipline to draw comics, and god knows I tried when I was younger.

So I became a writer instead...drawing is not the only way to create comics.

[Kaos]

maybe you should show us someof your art an ting

[SmittyX]

Rather than moping around and feeling sorry for ourselves, let's make some comics! CBR has provided the forum, with a built in audience and a collection of creative people. Why not PM an artist on the site? or email a script idea. I don't really have the skills to pay the bills, but I'm always up for working collaboratively.

SmittyX.

[Aaron Kashtan]

PF, don't make the mistake of thinking that there is only one way you can be happy. If you haven't tried any careers other than drawing, then how do you know that those careers wouldn't make you happy? Or how do you know that you would be happy as a professional comic artist? There are many people who became professional comic artists and still had unhappy lives-- Dave Cockrum is the first example that comes to mind. And there are probably just as many people who wanted to become professional comic artists, but ended up doing something else, and were happy doing that. I've met Kurt, whose story you quoted, and he doesn't strike me as a miserable person.

Or let me give you another example. I'm two years older than you. My goal in life is to be a comics scholar. I want to get my Ph.D. and get tenure at a major university, in a department of literature or film studies. I'm currently on the way toward realizing this goal: I've just started working towards my Ph.D. in an English department which has the nation's best program in comics studies. The problem is that my department is currently in a state of crisis; our chair was just fired by the provost, despite having the support of almost all the faculty. I feel a lot of uncertainty as to what will happen to the comics studies program, and what will happen to me as a result.

So why am I not thinking about suicide? Because I believe that I'm going to be fine no matter what happens. Even if worst comes to worst, I can still apply to other English programs. Or if that fails, I can go to law school, or something like that. I'm happy doing what I do now, but I realize that this is not the only way I can ever be happy.

To put it another way: you're a very young man, you have your whole life ahead of you, and you can't know what the future holds. Even if you feel you've failed at becoming an artist, there are other ways in which you can achieve success.

On a more practical level, it sounds like the medication you're currently taking is not working. I recommend that you tell your psychiatrist how you're feeling, and ask if s/he could prescribe an alternative medication that might be more effective.

[Elegance Liberty]

I feel the same way sometimes.

I want to both write AND draw comics, but I know I'll never be good enough for the big leauges.

Luckily, I had the fortunate luck and circumstance to talk to *a* Marvel editor recently (not saying which one out of respect of privacy) who pretty much gave me the 'need to know' info on how to break into the industry.

Suffice to say, I'm absolutley intimidated by what I have to do and by looking at my own pathetic art and writing abilities.

But moping around isn't going to get that done. Right now I'm taking all the art and creative writing classes I can find in college, along with a few addtional courses that may offer some help.

It's hard, I know. Especially when it feels like everyone else is better than you -and me being me with an inferiority complex the size of Europe, that's says alot about me-.

I hate sounding cliched and happy happy, but don't give up!

[Captain_Video]

Why not self publish, most peoples short comings become known as there "unique style", turn the positive into a negative, like how I dont have a big nose, I have an iconic profile.

You havent failed, you are just "awaiting success".

The story you posted by Cei-U, as far as I am aware he aint stopped drawing, so you shouldn't either.

Me I try to draw in the comic book style, have done since I was ten, can't do it...I did three years of art all they liked where my still lifes and film work, saying I should do fine art and forget about this comic book rubbish, I am just now trying to play to my strengths, I aint given up and I am an untalented idiot...you probably at least have some comic book talent.

Believe me I lacked confidence for years and it did me nothing but harm years wasted not believing in myself, you don't need to work for Marvel or DC do your own stuff.

Good luck !

[SmittyX]

I agree with Captain Video! It's not helpfull to describe your work in negative terms, or to make Marvel/DC as the "be all and end all" of comic art. Everything is a process, there's no such thing as talent. Matt Groening is no Picasso! Neither was Charles Schultz. I think you would benefit from a change in paradigm.

[KirkFiege]

Life is a process of successions. The people who windup benefitting from their situations are those that make the best of everything. You definetly aren`t the same person you were just a couple months ago, and a couple months from today you`ll be different again. Time creates character, and I`m certain that everybody can find their own benefits from falling short of their dreams either through new found perspective or life lessons to pass along.
On another angle -- tragedy is a concept for external perceptions and stress is insignificant towards purpose or being (stress is when life doesn`t fit into the box you made for it).

[joe bloke]

There is no such thing as good art or bad art. You got the love? then, do it. Really, man, I can't draw comics for the life of me, though it's all I've ever wanted to do. I think the trick is not to think in terms of " Oh, I'll never be as good as. . . " or " I'm way better than. . . " I haven't seen your art, so I can't make any comments upon it per se, but I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen artwork that I thought was shit; it may not have been my bag, but just because something's not to my taste that so doesn't make it shit. If you love drawing, if it's what you really want to do, then, just do it, fella. Hey, let's face it: if Rob Liefeld can make it, anyone can make it. Don't be so hard on yourself, matey. That's what your girlfriend's for.

You want to get your work out there? That's what the web's for! You want an audience? Here we are!

You hate it? Then, don't do it.

It's all good.

Whatever, you decide to do, go for it. And take my best wishes and all my love along for the ride with you.

Cheers!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I hate to spew old sayings but if you truly want something, you can never stop trying.
You must triy and keep trying.
And when you are not trying, you are perfecting your craft so you´ll be better when you try again.