Warmup to the main event... Connor vs. 3 Jade Monkey martial artists, that just wiped out a Kobra base.
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12-09-2006, 07:16 PM #61Mad Scientist
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12-09-2006, 07:17 PM #62Mad Scientist
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Connor vs. Shiva
He loses, but this is an incredible feat.
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12-09-2006, 07:28 PM #63Elder Member
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Y'know, for all the people who want to downplay that performance into not meaning much of anything, I'm not recalling a fight where Bruce did as well as that on Shiva, unless I'm recalling wrong.
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12-09-2006, 07:34 PM #64Mad Scientist
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Who downplays that performance? That is a spectacular performance.
(Now, as for people that say things like it proves he's her equal when she very much won and would have killed him if Robin hadn't confronted her... )
But that is one hell of a brawl, and one of the main reasons I shake my head at Loeb's "Batman one-punches Shiva" scene from Batman-Superman. Dixon's fight between Connor and Shiva was a battle between masters. Loeb's fight between Batman and Shiva was an insult to everyone that had been wanting them to fight, and deserves to be explained away by Grodd's mind control.
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12-09-2006, 07:34 PM #65Moderator
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It looks like a darned good fight. Wish I had that issue. :(
Originally Posted by Pendaran
Damo, can one find that in a Trade?
Shiva, of course, has been one-punched by Bruce (possibly under mind control at the time, so it's sort of nixed) and taken out by Bruce and Jason Todd together.
I think that's about it.
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12-09-2006, 07:44 PM #66Mad Scientist
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I'm afraid that fight hasn't been collected in a trade as far as I know. Overall the story just wasn't very good, IMHO, although chock-full of martial arts. The idea of a worldwide cult that worships The Monkey King is interesting - if you know your legends, it makes sense for martial artists to venerate him, he was an unstopable warrior (there's a reason Goku, a guy based on the Monkey King, is so ridiculously overpowered in martial arts). Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies
But this arc dragged in a lot of places, had some painfully low showings for martial artists that deserved better (presumably to make Connor look even more impressive), and really it's hard for people to respect something called "The Cult of the Monkey Fist".
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12-09-2006, 07:47 PM #67Elder Member
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Loeb has also had Superman shatter Wonder Woman's bracelets and Batman able to redirect a charging Captain Marvel with a kick without shattering every bone in his leg. It's not like anyone takes anything that happened in Superman/Batman seriously. Originally Posted by Damo
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12-09-2006, 07:48 PM #68Moderator
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I'd pick it up, though...it has Shiva, that makes it worthwhile (most of the time). :) Do you have issue numbers? :) Originally Posted by Damo
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12-09-2006, 07:54 PM #69Mad Scientist
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12-11-2006, 07:23 AM #70Veteran Member
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One of the most notable omissions of the whole storyline: Originally Posted by Damo
Batman and Nightwing never really take part in the direct "competition" that's going on, so once again DC tapdances around the question of "just how good is Batman really, and how good is Nightwing in comparison?"
Man that ticked me off. It's like they gave Batman a "free pass" so he wouldn't lose any cred.
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12-11-2006, 11:44 AM #71Mad Scientist
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Yup. But it still has Batman calling Connor "number 2" in rank. So... is Batman putting Connor above him, or just not including him? Originally Posted by Jmacq1
Although... while Batman got a free pass, the same can't be said for poor Nightwing. I'd say he was jobbing in this arc, but it was Dixon writing it. If you couldn't trust Dixon to decide where Nightwing's skill level was, who could you trust? Poor Dick got the crap kicked out of him while trying to fight the Bamboo Monkey. Even worse, Robin was helping, and they both went down hard, only to have Connor save their asses. Connor = better than Nightwing+Robin? Then you have Shiva laying Dick on his ass while she's not even paying attention to him, busy charging Connor and destroying Connor's arrows as they fly at her.
Meanwhile, Black Canary and Bronze Tiger are taken down off screen (of course this is Dixon's Canary, whose skills were Robin level on a good day) and people like Question and Judomaster are briefly shown in a "people not important enough for Shiva to go after" montage. Yip.
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12-12-2006, 05:25 AM #72Veteran Member
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Yeah, given Shiva's history with the Question, that was almost completely nonsensical.
Come to think of it, most of the storyline was nonsensical, and annoying when one-arc characters ("Bamboo Monkey?!?") suddenly show up and start beating the crap out of people that are supposed to be in the top 10-20 martial artists in the DCU.
And yes, everyone except Shiva pretty much jobbed to make Connor look good. The whole point of the arc was supposedly to establish Connor as the "number 2 martial artist in the DCU." Because Dixon felt Connor needed that title to be cool or something.
Of course, they didn't even mention Richard Dragon, and as noted, Bronze Tiger, Batman, The Question, Judomaster, and Black Canary were basically "taken off the field."
What really makes me laugh is this: Since Judomaster and the Question obviously won their "ambushes" by the monkey cultists (since y'know...neither of them were dead because of it later)...why -weren't- they worth Shiva's time again? ;)
Oh, and of course this all predates the introduction of several characters that play in the "upper tiers" of martial artists in the DCU since (Cassandra Cain, David Cain, etc...)Last edited by Jmacq1; 12-12-2006 at 05:28 AM.
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12-12-2006, 08:42 AM #73Mad Scientist
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Haven't you heard? The Bamboo Monkey is back! In "Connor Hawke: Dragon's Blood", Dixon's new Connor Hawke mini! All of the Bamboo Monkey's fans should pick it up. Originally Posted by Jmacq1
Actually it was because the book was a few issues away from cancellation. Ollie was very clearly coming back, so Chuck, near as I can make out, decided to make an even bigger deal out of Connor's martial arts skills, as a way of differentiating him from his father, so that Connor would still have use when Ollie returned. Originally Posted by Jmacq1
The Monkey Cult isn't allowed use guns. That's why they hired Deathstroke to take care of Eddie Fyers (Eddie won, but it was blue suit Deathstroke, so meh). So I can just see them showing up to challenge Cain to martial arts combat and having their heads blown off. After a while I think they'd just cough and make him an honorary Monkey so they won't have to fight him any more. :D Originally Posted by Jmacq1
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12-12-2006, 10:12 AM #74Veteran Member
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"Lead Monkey?" ;)
And funny how subsequent GA writers seemed to quickly forget that Connor had any martial art skills at all (*coughwinnickcough*).Last edited by Jmacq1; 12-12-2006 at 10:14 AM.
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12-12-2006, 10:29 AM #75Bloom of Blades
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Nice thread, I just found this and have been enjoying the scans quite a bit. I'm also been trying to find the finale issue of the Monkey Cult arc without any luck, darn it.
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