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Thread: The Source Wall

  1. #16
    Senior Member hoffmandu's Avatar
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    I remember seeing Dr Doom a victim of the Wall in JLA/Avengers. Like Doom couldn't pass..........psssshhhhffffftttt!

  2. #17
    Senior Member Kid Kyoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Mite
    Wikipedia knows JACK! They don't mention that Metron and Swampy have managed to pass the wall.
    d00d then fix it. It's a @#$%ing Wiki, that's the whole bloody point.

  3. #18
    New Member BlaqueBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kyoto
    d00d then fix it. It's a @#$%ing Wiki, that's the whole bloody point.

    too true

  4. #19
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    The Source Wall was first mentioned in New Gods (vol. 1) #5 as "the final barrier". In that issue, Metron contemplated what it would take to cross the barrier and encounter the source, reflecting upon other races that had attempted to cross the barrier and had failed. The wall/barrier was not actually seen in this issue, and it was unclear whether or not it was even visible.

    This is most certainly the same "source wall" that Metron is attempting to pass through in X-Men/New Teen Titans #1.

  5. #20
    THE GODDAMN BAT-MITE! Bat-Mite's Avatar
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    d00d then fix it. It's a @#$%ing Wiki, that's the whole bloody point.
    HA! And another HA! I fixed it yesterday. I WIN THE INTERNET!

  6. #21
    Heartless Guts/Batman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Mite
    Wikipedia knows JACK!
    I agree. I don't use Wikipedia at all. I don't trust any of it's information.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper
    The Source Wall was first mentioned in New Gods (vol. 1) #5 as "the final barrier". In that issue, Metron contemplated what it would take to cross the barrier and encounter the source, reflecting upon other races that had attempted to cross the barrier and had failed. The wall/barrier was not actually seen in this issue, and it was unclear whether or not it was even visible.

    This is most certainly the same "source wall" that Metron is attempting to pass through in X-Men/New Teen Titans #1.
    The Source Wall as it is currently understood visually in the DCU first appeared in the X/Titans crossover. Wikipedia notwithstanding, the Wall as such did not appear in Kirby's New Gods.

    What did appear was a four page introductory sequence in NEW GODS #5 in which Metron, using his Mobius Chair, explores the 'Final Barrier'. "And somewhere beyond--lies the Source: the greatest of mysteries." An additional description suggests that this is the Promethian Galaxy--a place of giants--where "all roads to the Source come to an end--". Visually, there's a double page shot of a giant strapped to an enormous piece of Kirby debris. There's another panel with a large head of a female who tried ot achieve "the maximum state". And failed. And, in the text, Metron notes that 'beyond all the knowledge and sweeping concept at our command, the mystery of the Source lies--serene---omnipotent--all-wise.'

    There is, however, no shot of a 'Source Wall' as such. No final visual barrier beyond which an entity may not venture. No wall full of entities who tried to breach the final barrier and failed and became subsumed within the Wall.

    Chris and I invented that notion--and its visualization--for the X/Titans book, clearly extrapolating from what Jack had done.

    The neatest part of the invention is that apparently, the notion of the Wall and its execution were such a perfect fit for the existing New Gods mythology that folks don't really remember exactly where it came from.

    :)

    Best/Walter

  8. #23
    Postmodern Man Jack Zodiac's Avatar
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    That is pretty funny, but I think that says something for the concept itself, too. Apparently, even fans of the New Gods books can't distinguish between the wall itself or the idea of the wall. :p Thanks, Walt.

    Also, while you're still maybe around, I just wanna' say that I'm a huge fan of yours. Especially your run on Thor. I love CBR. Start talking about some old comics and boom, Walt freakin' Simonson shows up. Or Marty Pasko. Awesome. :)
    Go !@#$ yourself.

  9. #24
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    I sort of have a related question... is the Source and the Presence the same thing? One is mentioned in New Gods and the other is mentioned in Spectre, but they always kind of sounded like the same thing. Is it just 2 different names for the same thing in DC?

  10. #25
    Postmodern Man Jack Zodiac's Avatar
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    No, The Presence is a sort of broad explanation for a Judeo-Christian God in the DCU. The Source is, for all that it's alluded to, whatever created all of Creation, possibly including The Presence itself.
    Go !@#$ yourself.

  11. #26
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Zodiac
    No, The Presence is a sort of broad explanation for a Judeo-Christian God in the DCU. The Source is, for all that it's alluded to, whatever created all of Creation, possibly including The Presence itself.
    Hmmm... that's interesting. So the Presence isn't the creater of the creation in the DCU like the Judeo-Christian god is.

    It almost makes the Presence sound like he's a "god" the same way Zeus or Odin is if he's not actually the being responsible for creation.

    Thanks.

  12. #27
    Postmodern Man Jack Zodiac's Avatar
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    Well, it's just that in every scenario that The Presence is brought up, in the context of those books, he's never anything more than a representitive of Yahweh. He's the God that created Zauriel and The Spectre, so he's obviously indicative of the Judeo-Christian God, but in the DCU, may not be the same God responsible for the universe's birth.
    Go !@#$ yourself.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac
    I sort of have a related question... is the Source and the Presence the same thing? One is mentioned in New Gods and the other is mentioned in Spectre, but they always kind of sounded like the same thing. Is it just 2 different names for the same thing in DC?
    It was alluded to in Days of Judgement when one of the New Gods accompanied the heroes to heaven thought the Source felt similar to the Presence.

  14. #29
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Simonson
    The Source Wall as it is currently understood visually in the DCU first appeared in the X/Titans crossover. Wikipedia notwithstanding, the Wall as such did not appear in Kirby's New Gods.
    I said as much, actually. You quoted me without reading. I specifically indicated that there was no visual provided.

    What did appear was a four page introductory sequence in NEW GODS #5 in which Metron, using his Mobius Chair, explores the 'Final Barrier'. "And somewhere beyond--lies the Source: the greatest of mysteries." An additional description suggests that this is the Promethian Galaxy--a place of giants--where "all roads to the Source come to an end--". Visually, there's a double page shot of a giant strapped to an enormous piece of Kirby debris. There's another panel with a large head of a female who tried ot achieve "the maximum state". And failed. And, in the text, Metron notes that 'beyond all the knowledge and sweeping concept at our command, the mystery of the Source lies--serene---omnipotent--all-wise.'
    A more lengthy explanation of my original synopsis. It's called "The Final Barrier" and you don't see it.

    There is, however, no shot of a 'Source Wall' as such. No final visual barrier beyond which an entity may not venture. No wall full of entities who tried to breach the final barrier and failed and became subsumed within the Wall.

    Chris and I invented that notion--and its visualization--for the X/Titans book, clearly extrapolating from what Jack had done.
    Clearly.


    The neatest part of the invention is that apparently, the notion of the Wall and its execution were such a perfect fit for the existing New Gods mythology that folks don't really remember exactly where it came from.
    I would disagree. I know it wasn't depicted in the original New Gods, and I'm not sure I agree with the way in which it was finally depicted. I liked it better as an abstract concept, perhaps too large to percieve and visualize on a lowly comic book page.

    Anyway, your interpretation was certainly memorable, but please do not use your misinterpretation of my post as a basis for immortalizing your artistic contribution to the New Gods mythos.

  15. #30
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guts/Batman
    I agree. I don't use Wikipedia at all. I don't trust any of it's information.
    Wikepedia is great. I know you can't rely on anything in there because it's so open to being edited by plebs, but on almost any subject you can go and get quite a comprehensive well organised wad of mostly accurate information.

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