Shang-chi vs. Cassandra Cain

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

:D Thank god indeed.

But she also isn't being labelled as a Class Five Brick.

What I'm saying is that there is far, far more incredible stuff in Cass' background to account for what SHE does, than there is in Kingpin's to account for what HE does. He's big. He lifted a lot of weights.

There has to be more to it than that - Class Five brick??? But there isn't. It's just that he's a ringer.

Just like her (who has the advantage of genetics, training from birth by the best, use of qi, body-reading, etc).

he probalby took steroids..heck i bet his momma feddd hjim horse roids in his ottle:p ..

like i said baby huey type monstrosity..kingpins face scares me almost as much as his strength..:p

[Gordon Smith]

The case for Shang-Chi as a bullet-timer seems pretty straight forward to me. I don't have any problem with it.

[Gordon Smith]

Ultimate Kingpin did that, though 616 might have at some point over the years. He certainly could at his peak. GOrdon classified 616 Kingpin at his prime (which he is past) at a ringer with IIRC Class 5 strength.

Not quite. As seen here, I estimate Kingpin as being able to lift 3-4 tons. He may have been even stronger in his early days, since he seems to be far past his peak now.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Not quite. As seen here, I estimate Kingpin as being able to lift 3-4 tons. He may have been even stronger in his early days, since he seems to be far past his peak now.

i'bve got a question about wilson, i think in the past he;s shown savvy on alot of martial arts..i think he even used preasure points once and slightly resisted them..though i'm not sure if thats skill or his mass

does he qualify to be in the top say 20 martail artist in marvel U

because i remember somehting about the man sparing and working out wth world class fighters and stuff, and he's been given a nod bye cap once or twice i think even caught him off gaurd or bested him.

so my question is..does he qualify for being one of the best? or does he fall short?

[Pendaran]

He used to be one of the best, he now falls short, it's a specific in plot thing that he's gone down.

[Nik Hasta]

He used to be one of the best, he now falls short, it's a specific in plot thing that he's gone down.

Indeed, he'd definitely have been up there.

[Gordon Smith]

i'bve got a question about wilson, i think in the past he;s shown savvy on alot of martial arts..i think he even used preasure points once and slightly resisted them..though i'm not sure if thats skill or his mass

does he qualify to be in the top say 20 martail artist in marvel U

because i remember somehting about the man sparing and working out wth world class fighters and stuff, and he's been given a nod bye cap once or twice i think even caught him off gaurd or bested him.

so my question is..does he qualify for being one of the best? or does he fall short?

Well, he was certainly a very skilled fighter in his prime, although I don't think he made it to the very top of the list. I never saw him as being on an equal footing with fighters like Daredevil or Elektra in terms of pure skill. I dunno if I'd go so far as to say he was one of the ''top 20 martial artists'' in the MU. Somewhere in the top fifty, maybe, and likely near the bottom of that list.

Still, after a long period of decline in which he didn't seem to train much and was maybe slacking off after taking a lot of beatings, being shot and stabbed and blinded and falling off the Brooklyn Bridge and living as a homeless vagrant for a bit and in a coma for awhile (not necessarily all in that precise order), he's starting to come back to something resembling at least a shadow of his old self. In a fight in the shower with other inmates at Ryker's prison, he killed four men in all of six seconds, nicely bookending a sparring match from the Frank Miller era of Daredevil in which he defeated eight martial artists in a seventeen second fight during which time not one single opponent managed to hit him even once.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Well, he was certainly a very skilled fighter in his prime, although I don't think he made it to the very top of the list. I never saw him as being on an equal footing with fighters like Daredevil or Elektra in terms of pure skill. I dunno if I'd go so far as to say he was one of the ''top 20 martial artists'' in the MU. Somewhere in the top fifty, maybe, and likely near the bottom of that list.

Still, after a long period of decline in which he didn't seem to train much and was maybe slacking off after taking a lot of beatings, being shot and stabbed and blinded and falling off the Brooklyn Bridge and living as a homeless vagrant for a bit and in a coma for awhile (not necessarily all in that precise order), he's starting to come back to something resembling at least a shadow of his old self. In a fight in the shower with other inmates at Ryker's prison, he killed four men in all of six seconds, nicely bookending a sparring match from the Frank Miller era of Daredevil in which he defeated eight martial artists in a seventeen second fight during which time not one single opponent managed to hit him even once.

yea thats what i sam saying he got depowered alot and i remember him doing the martial artist feats, thanks for the clarifcation

i hope the writer decide to bring him up to his old self

[AJ Valliant]

Well, he was certainly a very skilled fighter in his prime, although I don't think he made it to the very top of the list. I never saw him as being on an equal footing with fighters like Daredevil or Elektra in terms of pure skill. I dunno if I'd go so far as to say he was one of the ''top 20 martial artists'' in the MU. Somewhere in the top fifty, maybe, and likely near the bottom of that list.

Still, after a long period of decline in which he didn't seem to train much and was maybe slacking off after taking a lot of beatings, being shot and stabbed and blinded and falling off the Brooklyn Bridge and living as a homeless vagrant for a bit and in a coma for awhile (not necessarily all in that precise order), he's starting to come back to something resembling at least a shadow of his old self. In a fight in the shower with other inmates at Ryker's prison, he killed four men in all of six seconds, nicely bookending a sparring match from the Frank Miller era of Daredevil in which he defeated eight martial artists in a seventeen second fight during which time not one single opponent managed to hit him even once.

He also beat a Red Skull who at the time had a body on par physically with Cap (I belive it was cloned and somehow retained the super soldier properties...but I'm not sure).

ps. I just started reading the rumbles portion of this site today. I feel like a fat kid that stumbled onto a lost pillow case of Halloween candy. Not good exactly...but shamefully delighted.

[Fast]

Damn this is an old thread.

Shang-Chi and Cass are fairly even straight h2h stats-wise and skill-wise I believe Shang may be a touch above Cass but body-reading evens that out.

With equipment it becomes too much for Shang-Chi to overcome.

[Sharpandpointies]

He also beat a Red Skull who at the time had a body on par physically with Cap (I belive it was cloned and somehow retained the super soldier properties...but I'm not sure).

ps. I just started reading the rumbles portion of this site today. I feel like a fat kid that stumbled onto a lost pillow case of Halloween candy. Not good exactly...but shamefully delighted.

Good to have you here, AJ. :) Please be sure to read the rules and other official stickied threads - they make how we do things a little easier to figure out.

[AJ Valliant]

Good to have you here, AJ. :) Please be sure to read the rules and other official stickied threads - they make how we do things a little easier to figure out.

I read them ..though I could not find an acronym list. I spent about five minutes trying to suss out CBPH (Comic Book Peak human) and BT (Bullet time).

[Sharpandpointies]

I read them ..though I could not find an acronym list. I spent about five minutes trying to suss out CBPH (Comic Book Peak human) and BT (Bullet time).

Ah...that's just laziness on not writing it out. The important acronyms - PIS, CIS, and SMvsFL are covered in the rules.

Everything else varies from person to person. :)