Why did Marvel dumb down Tigra?

[Jerry W. Loper]

Why did Marvel horribly dumb down and make a tramp out of Tigra in the 1980s and 1990s? I have her early appearances in Marvel Chillers and Monsters Unleashed, and am absolutely certain she would've slapped the s**t out of 1980s-1990s Tigra if she met her on the street and talked to her for 30 seconds. The Greer Nelson from the early to mid-1970s, including her Claws of the Cat days, was not the same person as what younger readers have seen from about 1980 on, just some airhead with the same name.

[Tobias March]

Byrne? Didn't he write the issues where she started eating mice and such? Somone please correct me.

[Jerry W. Loper]

Byrne? Didn't he write the issues where she started eating mice and such? Somone please correct me.

The disrespect started earlier than Byrne's run on West Coast Avengers. During Tigra's brief membership in the East Coast Avengers (#211-217, which appeared in about 1980 or so), Jim Shooter wrote her as an airhead and a sobbing coward (in an issue where the Molecule Man had apparently killed Thor, Iron Man, Cap, and Silver Surfer, he offered to spare Tigra if she'd be his "pet," and she broke down and accepted his "offer." Later on she saved the day, but immediately after that, quit the team, saying she wasn't good enough. :rolleyes:

[Haunt]

The disrespect started earlier than Byrne's run on West Coast Avengers. During Tigra's brief membership in the East Coast Avengers (#211-217, which appeared in about 1980 or so), Jim Shooter wrote her as an airhead and a sobbing coward (in an issue where the Molecule Man had apparently killed Thor, Iron Man, Cap, and Silver Surfer, he offered to spare Tigra if she'd be his "pet," and she broke down and accepted his "offer." Later on she saved the day, but immediately after that, quit the team, saying she wasn't good enough. :rolleyes:

coulda' been worse. Greer could have given the Wasp a black eye.

[dazzler_slave]

Yeah, I don't know why they portrayed her as so weak. Try reading the Tigra mini from a few years ago (from the Icons series). She is portrayed much more closely to her original character there. Plus, now that she is a SHIELD agent, hopefully she'll get written better.

[static]

maybe like everyother feline on earth she is just plain f@#king crazy....

has there ever been an issue where she just got up and run out of the room urgently for no damn reason? Has anyone ever been allergic to her?

[Dermie]

I think Tigra fared better in Englehart's WCA run. Sure, she was unstable for the first year or so of the series, with the subplot relating to her cat soul. But after that she was fine, and all the way through she was shown to be a strong, smart, valuable member of the team.

[drwho]

There was a tigra mini they came out a few years ago and it wasnt bad and she wasnt acting like a horny cat.

[Kirk G]

Byrne? Didn't he write the issues where she started eating mice and such? Somone please correct me.

Uh, I think John Byrne got sidetracked and never really got to do with Tigra whatever he had intended. The evidence? In an Annual, probably a West Coast Avengers annual that featured a big cross-over, Byrne devoted an entire page to a nine pannel appology to the readers.

Seems he had forgotten where he was taking Tigra, (having shrunk her down to the size of a mouse by Hank Pym and his particles) and then was placed in a glass cage from which, I think, she escaped... So, when last we saw her, she was a shrunken feline pest....

Then suddenly, she was full grown and in control, when she appeared in the Annual as a bit player. Seems that Byrne had told the writer it was alright to go ahead and use Tigra, and then either forgot and wrote her into a tight spot, OR, had already laid the groundwork and forgot when he gave the OK to use her.

In a full page appology, similar to the Al Milgrim introductions in Marvel Fanfare and Marvel Age books, Byrne drew himself like a Fred Hembeck character and explained the glitch was all his fault. He ended saying he was going to go out and eat a bug now.... as his character walks off pannel.

Does anyone else remember this?

Was Tigra EVER helped out of her shrunken state? Was this story EVER told?
Or is this a plot thread awaiting Kurt Buscik's touch to tie it up in an issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man? (like he resolved the anger issue at the end of the Silver Surfer's first volume!):rolleyes:

[atxbomber]

Does anyone else remember this?

AWC 56 or 57 if I remember correctly.

Was Tigra EVER helped out of her shrunken state? Was this story EVER told?

I believe this was addressed in an issue of Avengers Spotlight, and seem to recall Tigra being restored by Agatha Harkness in some manner.

[The Recluse]

I actually liked the "dumbed down" Tigra a helluva lot more than the Tigra we saw when she first debuted. Yeah, she was cowardly and vulnerable at certain points but, in an era of one dimensional, "never blink in the face of danger" superheroes, she was refreshingly real.

[kcekada]

She may have been refreshingly real, but that characterization was a disservice to the creators of the Cat and Tigra.

I agree that Jim Shooter got the ball rolling -- because he wanted to write a story that showed not any hero/heroine could be an Avenger. Of course, changing a character to prove his point invalidated the whole story. Thank goodness Steve Englehard somewhat redeemed her -- but then he made her as horny as a cat. Note to Steve: cats are only horny when they are in heat -- like any other animal.

The Tigra mini was a definite step in the right direction. I hope that work done there isn't forgotten.

[Agentum]

I'm with those that liked the more catlike Tigra best.
She was intresting and diffrent.

Engleharts WCA is better than Byrnes issues i think.

[Kirk G]

AWC 56 or 57 if I remember correctly.
......
I believe this was addressed in an issue of Avengers Spotlight, and seem to recall Tigra being restored by Agatha Harkness in some manner.

Yeah, I seem to remember Hank Pym being ambushed by a ferrel Tigra in trees on the compound, saving himself by whipping out some Pym particles, and running off to join some other developing plot line...(Wanda kidnapped?)
and the rest of the team returning to find the glass cage broken with the top knocked off as they return from some adventure... having totally forgotten her.

But I don't recall the resolution, if one ever was done.

I started to leave that series after the moderately suscessful "L.A. Earthquake" issue (which has special significance for me nowadays!:rolleyes: ) that followed up Byrne's marvelous "All in the Family Fued" or was it "Family Matters..." or something similar to "Family Ties".

Alright, I lied... I stuck around after the Time-Keepers/Immortus wrap up too, through the living lightning and Reaper and the Robot arcs... but mentally, I was gone long ago. Seems to me that the last two issues I bought were 100 & 101 or 102 when it all ended... far too late for me, and after a gap of many years. (Edit: Not surprising that the last WCA issue I ever bought was 102, huh?)

[DDM]

In a full page appology, similar to the Al Milgrim introductions in Marvel Fanfare and Marvel Age books, Byrne drew himself like a Fred Hembeck character and explained the glitch was all his fault. He ended saying he was going to go out and eat a bug now.... as his character walks off pannel.

Does anyone else remember this?

John Byrne's apology is in Avengers West Coast Annual #4