Final Fantasy 12

[yeoman]

Other than the graphics that movie blew and was no where close to what any of the final fantasy games are like.

Which is exactly my point. If it's not going to have anythign to do with Final Fantasy, why call it such.

Personally, I aLso don't see how they get away calling this Ivalice (This or Tactics Advance either). It doesn't really bear any resmblance to what we say in Tactics.

[Jmacq1]

Which is exactly my point. If it's not going to have anythign to do with Final Fantasy, why call it such.

Personally, I aLso don't see how they get away calling this Ivalice (This or Tactics Advance either). It doesn't really bear any resmblance to what we say in Tactics.

I think you might be missing the aspect where they re-use names for different places/people/items/etc...

I'd just say "Ivalice" is becoming a "default" setting for FF or at least another of the "Carryover" elements...but that doesn't mean that each time it's used that it's the same place. Just like Cid isn't the same Cid in every sequel, etc...etc...

The FF series has only done two direct sequels (FF X-2, and FF VII: Dirge of Cerebus). The mainline games have always been unconnected to each other prior to that, save for "shared elements". I doubt that the Ivalice we saw in the other games was ever intended to be the "same" Ivalice.

So far this FF has:

Chocobos
Cid
Espers/summoned monsters
The various forms of magic/spellnames/etc...
Various returning weapon names
Airships
Crystals
Various returning monster types
Shared musical cues
Moogles

Or in other words, it's every bit as "Final Fantasy" as every other "Final Fantasy" game that's come out. Just because they changed the battle system doesn't mean it stopped being "Final Fantasy". Heck, by your reasoning there shouldn't have been any "Final Fantasy" after #1 (which...would make sense given the title, but I digress).

I do find it interesting though that the early review I read has thus far been dead on. They gave it a very high rating, but said "The Battle System is something that longtime FF Fans are either going to love or hate."

[yeoman]

I think you might be missing the aspect where they re-use names for different places/people/items/etc...

I'd just say "Ivalice" is becoming a "default" setting for FF or at least another of the "Carryover" elements...but that doesn't mean that each time it's used that it's the same place. Just like Cid isn't the same Cid in every sequel, etc...etc...

The FF series has only done two direct sequels (FF X-2, and FF VII: Dirge of Cerebus). The mainline games have always been unconnected to each other prior to that, save for "shared elements". I doubt that the Ivalice we saw in the other games was ever intended to be the "same" Ivalice.

So far this FF has:

Chocobos
Cid
Espers/summoned monsters
The various forms of magic/spellnames/etc...
Various returning weapon names
Airships
Crystals
Various returning monster types
Shared musical cues
Moogles

Or in other words, it's every bit as "Final Fantasy" as every other "Final Fantasy" game that's come out. Just because they changed the battle system doesn't mean it stopped being "Final Fantasy". Heck, by your reasoning there shouldn't have been any "Final Fantasy" after #1 (which...would make sense given the title, but I digress).

I do find it interesting though that the early review I read has thus far been dead on. They gave it a very high rating, but said "The Battle System is something that longtime FF Fans are either going to love or hate."

Your list is missing that up until now every FF game also had random turn based battles.

Oh, and some concept of the idea of level appropriate encounters.

[Jmacq1]

Your list is missing that up until now every FF game also had random turn based battles.

Oh, and some concept of the idea of level appropriate encounters.

Sure they have, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a "tradition" the way everything else is. The gameplay of the FF series has varied dramatically from game-to-game. They've tweaked their "turn based system" about as much as they can tweak it. This is just the next step in that evolution.

Hey, it's fine to not like the changes. A lot of people have trouble adjusting to that kind of thing. But I disagree with your notion that it's "not a Final Fantasy game" because they took risks and made changes to the gameplay. To me "Final Fantasy" is more about themes, character, storyline, and artistic elements than it is about which buttons you have to push (or don't have to push) and when.

Nevermind that the game gives you the means to determine whether you're about to have a "level appropriate encounter" or not (Hint: Wear a Bangle or use "Libra"). Just because you refuse to exploit those means doesn't mean its' the fault of the game designers.

[Daemon]

Isnt FF12 set in the same world as FFT:A?

hence the judges, hunters guild, vierra and all those other unique monster races?

So this is also a sequal too.

[yeoman]

Sure they have, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a "tradition" the way everything else is. The gameplay of the FF series has varied dramatically from game-to-game. They've tweaked their "turn based system" about as much as they can tweak it. This is just the next step in that evolution.

Hey, it's fine to not like the changes. A lot of people have trouble adjusting to that kind of thing. But I disagree with your notion that it's "not a Final Fantasy game" because they took risks and made changes to the gameplay. To me "Final Fantasy" is more about themes, character, storyline, and artistic elements than it is about which buttons you have to push (or don't have to push) and when.

So, despite bein gin every single game, the core of the combat engine isn't a tradition?

Uh, no.

Nevermind that the game gives you the means to determine whether you're about to have a "level appropriate encounter" or not (Hint: Wear a Bangle or use "Libra"). Just because you refuse to exploit those means doesn't mean its' the fault of the game designers.

A) Why is the name of all that's holy should I have to spend license points or take up an accessory slot just to see if some wandering monster is going to one shot me? Areas should have random encounters appropriate to the level that you're going to go through them.

B) Having played a game in this series before, I'm going to assume these things are the equivilent of "Scan" and that I only need them if I want to see detailed information. Not whether a RANDOM GORRAMN MOSTER IS GOING TO ONE SHOT ME.

C) I'm also talking about the hunting system, where you're sent after stuff waaaaaaaaaaay to early for you to really fight them without leveling up a lot.

[Lester C.]

Isnt FF12 set in the same world as FFT:A?

hence the judges, hunters guild, vierra and all those other unique monster races?

So this is also a sequal too.

Yes and no. This game does take place in the world of Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy advance. However it's in a different empire that has little to do with the previous empires of Ivalice we saw in past games.

[El Santo]

Which is exactly my point. If it's not going to have anythign to do with Final Fantasy, why call it such.

Personally, I aLso don't see how they get away calling this Ivalice (This or Tactics Advance either). It doesn't really bear any resmblance to what we say in Tactics.

My theory about FFTA and FF12 is that this is pre-St. Ajora Ivalice. In FFT, if you did the "send away" sidequests, your guys kept finding evidence of an older, more advanced civilization and far-off lands. And of course, when you get Mustadio, he's exploring some kind of inoperative airship.

I figure that at some point between FF12 and FFT, probably around the time the St. Ajora stuff went down, there was some kind of giant war/cataclysm (didn't FFT mention that something like this happened?) that drove off or killed the Viera and Bangaa. The Judges, likewise, were part of the older civilization, and just never carried over to the Ivalice of FFT. Add in the fact that FFT took place (mostly) in the more European area of Ivalice, while FF12 and FFTA look more desert/Middle Eastern, and it starts to make more sense.

[El Santo]

Yes and no. This game does take place in the world of Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy advance. However it's in a different empire that has little to do with the previous empires of Ivalice we saw in past games.

Oddly enough the armor designs (and calling humans "humes") remind me more of Vana'Diel than Ivalice.

Of course, I'm probably the only person here who wouldn't mind seeing a single-player game set in the world of FF11

[Xero Kaiser]

Your list is missing that up until now every FF game also had random turn based battles.

FF11 didn't.

Besides, the battles are still turn-based. That doesn't mean it has to be the same as the older games. FF1-6, FF7-9, FFX, FFX-2 and FF11 all had turn based battle systems that played differently. Why is yet another revamp of the battle system only now surprising you?

It could be set in the future of Earth, and have no magic, and no Chocobos.

Other than the magic thing, you just described FF8

[yeoman]

FF11 didn't.

A game that's a total mystery to me as to my they included it in the numbered series.

Besides, the battles are still turn-based. That doesn't mean it has to be the same as the older games. FF1-6, FF7-9, FFX, FFX-2 and FF11 all had turn based battle systems that played differently. Why is yet another revamp of the battle system only now surprising you?

Is it really that hard for so many people to understand that, while the systems were different, all were turn based? Every. Damn. One.

Other than the magic thing, you just described FF8

Except for being set on Earth. Or lacking magic. Or lacking Chocobos. Really, nothing like I just described.

And, really, given 8 is probably the weakest in the series, it wouldn't prove much even if you were right.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Yeah, FFX and FFV had differences between them, but it was the same CORE gameplay.

For ten games, it was the SAME CORE GAMEPLAY.

Now, it is NOT.

How people can't understand that boggles my mind.

[Lester C.]

I love this game. Everthing about it, with the exception of the license system, is just about perfect. Those that said it was dark were not kidding. I never read the instruction manuel for fear of spoilers and let just say the person who I thought was the main character was not the main character. I'm less than an hour in and I had so many oh **** moments. This game is well wroth your time.

[Lester C.]

Yeah, FFX and FFV had differences between them, but it was the same CORE gameplay.

For ten games, it was the SAME CORE GAMEPLAY.

Now, it is NOT.

How people can't understand that boggles my mind.

The era of the traditional turn based RPG is over. Developers got tired of potential fans stating that they would have loved the game if it wasn't for the combat system. I'm not happy about it, but there have been other advances made that I am happy about like story lines oriented for an adult rather than a twelve year old.

[Xero Kaiser]

Is it really that hard for so many people to understand that, while the systems were different, all were turn based? Every. Damn. One.

What's your point? So is FF12. It's a modifed version of the ATB system we've been seeing since Chrono Trigger. When did this become realtime? Devil May Cry has a realtime battle system, Ninja Gaiden has a realtime battle system, this does not. It may not be a traditional turn-based system, but other than FF10, no FF game has been since for the past 12 years or so.