Is guile the best way to beat the Avengers?

[jmc247]

Captain America, passively, willingly, unbelievably, hands the Scarlet Witch over to the psychotic mutant terrorist Magneto. I was surprised they didn't wish them well like they did when Ms. Marvel's rapist, Marcus, spirited her away to Limbo for a second time. Again, the Avengers stand there and let the villains escape.

I have not read Avengers 200, after I read this review of Avengers 503 I searched who Marcus was and it said pretty much the same thing as this review, but that he was in Avengers 200 and it also said that it was like when Magneto a few months after Xorneto wrecked NY appeared infront of every Avenger the past few decades and asks for his daughter and is given her.

That said I noticed the times the "villians" get their way with the Avengers is usually when they are upfront and tell the Avengers point blank what they want and as long as it isn't something along the lines of killing thousands or taking over the world the Avengers usually say ok. I am not sure if this would be called guile or just being direct.

If you notice the enemies of the Avengers that get what they want are not the ones that fight them directly in pitched battles.

[Shellhead]

Hmm. The Avengers are noted for their strong teamwork, so maybe they respond well to an assertive personality type. Of course, handing over Wanda to the same guy who recently wrecked NYC was just bad writing or bad continuity, take your pick.

And while I can understand Claremont freaking out over Avengers #200 so badly that he needed to punish the Avengers with the dreadful Avengers Annual #10, it was a no-win situation. Either the Avengers could dismiss Carol's expressed desire to leave with Marcus, her freaky baby-daddy (in a very literal sense), or they could cooperate with a frankly suspicious situation.

Despite their status as Earth's Mightiest Heroes, it seems like the Avengers are more often over-powered than outsmarted by their enemies. Kang and Ultron are their two greatest foes, and both tend to rely on massive force instead of any degree of cunning.

[jmc247]

Despite their status as Earth's Mightiest Heroes, it seems like the Avengers are more often over-powered than outsmarted by their enemies. Kang and Ultron are their two greatest foes, and both tend to rely on massive force instead of any degree of cunning.

Yet, Ultron and Kang are beaten time and time again just like the Kree when they attack the Avengers upfront. Even Michael was defeated when he fought the Avengers upfront.

Villians only seem to get what they want from the Avengers when their goals are limited and their methods are either upfront or very behind the scenes.

[Sheldon]

Yes...but only if he uses the Flash kick, or is in Jean Claude Van Damme mode...

come'on it was too easy...

[jmc247]

Hmm. The Avengers are noted for their strong teamwork, so maybe they respond well to an assertive personality type.

The Avengers even though Cap said he didn't want to were basically ordered around by Galactus and Thanos in Infinity War because they were the most assertive. That was another case of 'villains' or at least gray characters getting what they want from the Avengers simply by asking even if Thanos also did use some guile.

[mattx110]

Yes...but only if he uses the Flash kick, or is in Jean Claude Van Damme mode...

come'on it was too easy...

you beat me to it this time, but next time, i'll be ready, just you wait.

[Babylon23]

Using guile certainly works better against the Avengers, especially when they're at full strength. It was Skrull guile that almost destroyed them during the early days of the Kree/Skrull War, and Zemo's guile got him into the mansion in Under Siege. Immortus is the master of guile, and almost completely destroyed the Avengers in AF.

I'd say guile has come closer to destroying the Avengers than sheer force has.

[Haunt]

the best way to beat them is have a member go crazy and kill everyone.

[jmc247]

the best way to beat them is have a member go crazy and kill everyone.

Wanda did what exactly? She simply got rid of a few Avengers Bendis didn't want in the New Avengers including herself.

She wasn't an enemy in Avengers Dissembled, she was a plot device to weed out certain Avengers from the team.

[Haunt]

Wanda did what exactly? She simply got rid of a few Avengers Bendis didn't want in the New Avengers including herself.

She wasn't an enemy in Avengers Dissembled, she was a plot device to weed out certain Avengers from the team.

yeah, but that apparently beat the team down so bad they disbanded.

[XPac]

yeah, but that apparently beat the team down so bad they disbanded.

Truthfully Disassembled did demonstrate a valid tactic at ending the Avengers.

Cause enough damage for Stark to decide to pull the plug.

[jmc247]

Truthfully Disassembled did demonstrate a valid tactic at ending the Avengers.

Cause enough damage for Stark to decide to pull the plug.

Realistically the government would foot the bill if Stark bailed. I mean what party would not spend a couple a billion to look good for national security. I mean the last 70 billion dollars for Iraq and Afghanistan went though the Senate 100-0.