Pipeline's official CIVIL WAR thread *SPOILERS*

**pmpknface** · 10-04-2006, 07:36 AM

I've noticed that we've been talking about CIVIL WAR in a bunch of threads, and since I know we don't want to spoil anything for those who haven't read it, I thought I'd start a thread where we can talk freely about ALL of it.

So I figure this would be a good place to ask questions of each other on, "How are these tie-ins?" or my personal favorite, "Where does this take place in continuity?"

Speaking of which... do we know where the CW: Young Avengers / Runaways mini takes place in the Runaways timeline?

Ok people. SPOIL AWAY!! :p

**goman** · 10-04-2006, 08:27 AM

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where CW:YA/Runaways fits into the regular Civil War timeline. Stature is still around in the mini, so it must take place between issue 2 and 3 of Civil War. I'll have to go back and read both mini's to see how much time takes place between those issues. I figure it takes place before the current Runaways storyline.

**pmpknface** · 10-04-2006, 08:45 AM

That may work. Sometimes you have to wait until they are over to be able to tell.

I was looking to match it up w/ the Runaways issues. I though it took place AFTER this whole current Runaways arc. I was guessing that BKV's run would end and then it would roll into this mini.

And because it was asked on another thread, yeah I think the Ms. Marvel issues take place BEFORE #4. Maybe before #3 too.

The guys at the MCP are going to be pulling their hair out with this one...

**goman** · 10-04-2006, 09:43 AM

Doesn't BKV have at least another arc before he leaves? It could take place after the current storyline in Runaways, unless something big happens in the last few issues with Chase's scheme. But I don't think the end of his run would roll into this, unless they have the last few stories planned as taking place well ahead of CW. You're probably right about taking a wait and see policy.

**torippu** · 10-04-2006, 01:29 PM

I still haven't read the Runaways/Young Avengers book yet. I've started issue #1 a couple of times, but can't seem to get into it. I'm starting to think that never having read Runaways is hindering my enjoyment of this book.

**pmpknface** · 10-05-2006, 05:43 AM

That's entirely possible. The ending to #2 was pretty nutty tho...

**pmpknface** · 10-05-2006, 07:54 AM

I have never been a huge Thor fan either (although Walt Simonson's run was quite good and Jurgens/JR jr's recent run was well done as well), but the idea of Clor/Thone just seemed to take away from the return of Thor concept Quesada seemed big on at cons and interviews.

My take is that it'll be that much cooler when that ACTUAL son of Odin shows up. I reading the Ragnarock story, I never even really thought of Thor as bieng dead, just "dormant" for a while while he ponders a few things.

I am trying not to rush to judgment either on CW too early, but Millar is making that a little tough. There are still 3 issues left and things could change around (hopefully not in a reset button way). I think the thing that bugs me the most is the timing inside the story. It seems like Cap/IM went from fighting Ultron at 11:59PM to fighting each other at 12:01AM (along with their supporters). Even the real life Bush administration took some time to implement the TSA, DHS, etc. And exactly how much time has passed? How exactly did the Neg Zone prison of that size get built so quick? I can waive some sense of disbelief in comics, but CW seems overly exaggerated to me for the sake of the story.

I think this is what the Illimunati special and a few of the other tie-ins help to flesh out, but I think I hear you. The recently finished arc in IM's current title ended up showing Tony in a certain mindset towards heroes and their powers.

I also understand the "cold scientist" part of Reed's personality, but he is definitely bordering on "mad scientist". And this from someone who violated international law by invading and taking over a sovereign nation(Latveria) and violated the sanctity of Heaven itself to save a friend. Now, suddenly, laws matter?! He also seems way to dismissive of Sue. He knows passion and family love are two of her greatest strengths and to so quickly ignore her in the current matter just seems too forced in order to advance CW as a story.

Well, don't forget stealing a rocket to go into space! :p But he's always been a pretty much by-the-book guy. He sees the good this can do and believes he HAS to do it.

I'm not sure he dismissed Sue much at all (that we've read yet anyhow) as much as SHE didn't want to deal with HIM. And once she knew she'd have to leave she just did it and didn't say a word because she knew he'd try adn stop her and talk her out if it - neither would happen. But I'm looking for Wednesday's issue to flesh this out a bit.

**pmpknface** · 10-05-2006, 07:55 AM

Upon listing to Comic Geek Speak (for the 1st time this week) I caught a few opinions I hadn't thought of before.

Did anyone think they were "putting Clor to sleep" or lobotimizing him? I didn't think that for a second, but that was one idea they had.

**goman** · 10-05-2006, 10:00 AM

I'm pretty sure the real Thor is going to show up at some point and layest thine smackdown. If the hammer that Clor was using was a fake, and that hammer that showed up in the recent Fantastic Four issues was real, then there's a real Thor running around somewhere. I have to re-read those FF issues and then pay closer attention to CW #4.

**pmpknface** · 10-05-2006, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by goman

I'm pretty sure the real Thor is going to show up at some point and layest thine smackdown. If the hammer that Clor was using was a fake, and that hammer that showed up in the recent Fantastic Four issues was real, then there's a real Thor running around somewhere. I have to re-read those FF issues and then pay closer attention to CW #4.

EXACTLY! Doom tried to pick that hammer up, and it didn't work. It's the "real" one alright. And if that's true, then it's STILL sitting in Oklahoma somewhere. Unless...

That last page in that FF issue where someone carrying a bag engraved with "DB" could have been the real Thor because Hank and Reed talk in CW 4 about how Clor has no moral center and, "should we have bonded him to a Donald Blake or Jake Olsen?"

At this point I bet that we'll see the real Thor too. And we better because if the new Thor title is starting, it'd be really weird if a cloned character has an ongoing... again...

**pmpknface** · 10-05-2006, 11:01 AM

And now... this:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=86600

**goman** · 10-05-2006, 11:17 AM

Quesada has been talking up Thunderbolts lately, and that would be an interesting take on the team. Everyone always acusses Ellis of hating superheroes, maybe this book will be a way for him to release that hate. You have to wonder how this will play as it seems like Thunderbolts was always about villians, but villains with a bit of remorse. Some of these guys from the end of CW #4, Bullseye in particular, haven't shown much remorse in the past. More Taskmaster is never a bad thing though, so it could be fun. Wonder who's on art?

**goman** · 10-06-2006, 09:47 AM

Newsarama has a story up now confirming the Ellis Thunderbolts book, with Deodato on art. No Taskmaster on the team though, which sucks. Wasn't Thunderbolts called "New Thunderbolts" at some point? Will this be called "New New Thunderbolts" or "Really New Thunderbolts" or "New Thunderbolts, Again", or has Marvel gotten off the "New [Blank]" kick?

**pmpknface** · 10-06-2006, 11:33 AM

CBR has it now too: http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8556

Looks good to me! There is also going to be a Zemo mini-series. YES, I'll be getting both.

This kind of makes sense to me. The Zemo plot, which has been going on since the fight club 'bolts ended, has been building to somethign BIG for soooo long, ya might as well start it again from scratch.

Someone pointed out that NONE of these guys can/will be seeking redemption - which is was the series has been about since the beginning - but this should still be cool. :D

**pmpknface** · 10-06-2006, 12:00 PM

Interview w/ Joey da Q over on n-rama about the T-bolts:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=86749

And just when I was thinking that Marvel is tipping their hand TOO much with this stuff I read this:

NRAMA: That said, and as some people have already wondered about – aren’t you kind of giving away the ending of Civil War by saying that?

JQ: Not at all - Thunderbolts #110 comes out in January, before Civil War ends, and was always planned that way. So – yes, in issue #110, in their first appearance in the title, they’re hunting unregistered superhumans, whether they’re hero or villain.

What happens post Civil War is anybody’s guess.

WOOHOO!!!