Would Sue Storm have left the FF if....

[jackolover]

Would Sue Storm have left the FF if Reed showed sympathy for Johnny, and discussed the dispute with Sue over SHRA?

Firstly, I think JMS did a wonderful job explaining the pros and cons of the SHRA over in Amazinfg, Road to CW. But he was remiss in explaining why (In NA: Illumunati) Reed said he would get hell with his wife. JMS neglected what was Sues reasons, and left it to FF538 for a 2 page dialogue between Reed/Sue and Sue/Ben.

So, here we are at CW 4, with Sue leaving the pro-side, and the FF, (with Johnny in tow), and JMS silent, after 8 months, on the real battle at home. At no time, after NA:Illuminati revealed it, was Sue given any book time to play out her side of the argument. I think this was a wasted opportunity by JMS, to show a deep and constructive debate, within the FF, seeing as Reed is such a staunch pro supporter. It makes Reed appear weak, that he can't face his wifes opposing view. I don't think Reed is weak, and I feel that JMS neglected to rectify this discepency in his character.

Considering the exceptional job he did in Amazing, Road to CW, JMS would have done just as sterling an effort on this conflict, between Reed and Sue. I am disappointed.

And, yes. Sue would have quit, once the CW 4 brawl erupted, and clone Thor killed a hero. It gave an inckling of an indication of Sues anger, but not the Home War I expected to see in the Baxter Building.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Tough question - it always is when a 'what if' is posed - but I'd be inclined to think that Sue's departure was inevitable, no matter what else was going on, if she and Reed still took the same basic moral positions.

I don't think Reed showing or not showing sympathy for Johnny was a factor - I'm sure it mattered a lot to Sue, and led to a lot of sour feelings towards Reed (who really should have done better), but in the end I don't think it'd be enough for Sue to walk away from her husband and her children over. I really don't think Reed doesn't care about Johnny - but from what I've seen of him, he's the kind of guy who'll have trouble dealing with purely emotional issues, and seek shelter in intellectual matters that he can get to grips with. He cares, but he doesn't really know how to show it, and while that can really irritate Sue, who's more emotionally balanced, I think she must know him well enough to realise that he cares. As much as she wants him to recognise this failing in himself, and be a better person, I don't think Sue really believes that Reed's lack of action is due to a lack of emotion. And I really don't think she'd leave her kids just because of that.

Guessing who explained what is more difficult - Sue's 'Dear Reed' letter in CW#4 referred to 'blazing fights' they've had in recent weeks, and I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to think that they've been about the issues Sue's upset over, the SHRA among them. They've surely argued around and around on the issue, and obviously not reached a resolution on it. Reed's no doubt 'science-smarter' than Sue, so there's not really any way for her to change his mind on his terms, using logic and calculation - and Sue is 'social-smarter' than Reed, so he can't recognise and gauge the potential for disaster the way she can. Basically, they're in a situation where either they disagree, or one of them has to just give up and take it on faith that the other is right. Sue's moral sense is too strong for her to accept Reed's scientific view above it, and Reed at present is, as I said, too invested in his theory to back down from it.

I do think it's a crying shame that Fantastic Four hasn't addressed this in more detail, especially seeing as the two issues so far have been used for little more than to draw the frankly infantile conclusion that people get hurt during a conflict, and heroes fighting each other is bad. It's true, of course, but any reader with two brain cells to rub together could work it out for themselves - I really have no idea why it was necessary to devote two issues to spelling it out.

[Xanrn]

Apparantly FF540 out this week will explain in more detail, it happens in between the pages of Civil War 4.

[XPac]

Reed's reaction will be especially interesting since basically his entire team has abandoned him. If you're Reed and you're not having doubt over whether you're doing the right thing or not at this point, something is wrong.

I just wonder if Reed will end up changing sides because of this or not. I doubt it would happen anytime soon... but if he's ever on opposite sides of the battle field with Sue I can see him at least opting to go neutral.

[Slumber Hulk]

I understand Reed's motivations and egghead mindset more than Tony's. And they've laid some groundwork for Reed to have a change of heart. Specifically his family and friends leaving, as well as his conversation with Spiderman about his uncle.

[FunkyRenegade]

Slightly off topic, but am I to be under the impression Ben is going his own way? Since the cover of FF 540 shows him walking between the battle seemingly nonplussed?

[Frodo-X]

Yes, he's quitting altogether.

[FunkyRenegade]

Woah :| I wasn't expecting that one.

[jackolover]

Guessing who explained what is more difficult - Sue's 'Dear Reed' letter in CW#4 referred to 'blazing fights' they've had in recent weeks, and I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to think that they've been about the issues Sue's upset over, the SHRA among them. They've surely argued around and around on the issue, and obviously not reached a resolution on it. Reed's no doubt 'science-smarter' than Sue, so there's not really any way for her to change his mind on his terms, using logic and calculation - and Sue is 'social-smarter' than Reed, so he can't recognise and gauge the potential for disaster the way she can. Basically, they're in a situation where either they disagree, or one of them has to just give up and take it on faith that the other is right. Sue's moral sense is too strong for her to accept Reed's scientific view above it, and Reed at present is, as I said, too invested in his theory to back down from it.

I do think it's a crying shame that Fantastic Four hasn't addressed this in more detail, especially seeing as the two issues so far have been used for little more than to draw the frankly infantile conclusion that people get hurt during a conflict, and heroes fighting each other is bad. It's true, of course, but any reader with two brain cells to rub together could work it out for themselves - I really have no idea why it was necessary to devote two issues to spelling it out.

You bring up an interesting point about Sue and Reed debating from 2 different directions. I wonder that even the Thor clone killing Goliath could be so abhorant to Sue that she leaves her husband? As you say, these 2 have had arguments before, and they know where each other come from, so surely, Sue has had this kind of dispute with Reed before and she didn't leave? There must be something different about this time. That's what I'd like to have played out in the FF, instead of this loose filler for 2 issues.

[El Santo]

Would Sue Storm have left the FF if Reed showed sympathy for Johnny, and discussed the dispute with Sue over SHRA?

Firstly, I think JMS did a wonderful job explaining the pros and cons of the SHRA over in Amazinfg, Road to CW. But he was remiss in explaining why (In NA: Illumunati) Reed said he would get hell with his wife. JMS neglected what was Sues reasons, and left it to FF538 for a 2 page dialogue between Reed/Sue and Sue/Ben.

So, here we are at CW 4, with Sue leaving the pro-side, and the FF, (with Johnny in tow), and JMS silent, after 8 months, on the real battle at home. At no time, after NA:Illuminati revealed it, was Sue given any book time to play out her side of the argument. I think this was a wasted opportunity by JMS, to show a deep and constructive debate, within the FF, seeing as Reed is such a staunch pro supporter. It makes Reed appear weak, that he can't face his wifes opposing view. I don't think Reed is weak, and I feel that JMS neglected to rectify this discepency in his character.

Considering the exceptional job he did in Amazing, Road to CW, JMS would have done just as sterling an effort on this conflict, between Reed and Sue. I am disappointed.

And, yes. Sue would have quit, once the CW 4 brawl erupted, and clone Thor killed a hero. It gave an inckling of an indication of Sues anger, but not the Home War I expected to see in the Baxter Building.

Um, I don't think JMS wrote Illuminati. That's probably why you're noticing a difference there. Illuminati, IIRC, was Brian Bendis.

[jackolover]

Um, I don't think JMS wrote Illuminati. That's probably why you're noticing a difference there. Illuminati, IIRC, was Brian Bendis.

Yes. I am aware Bendis wrote Illuminati. What I would have liked is JMS writing the Sue/Reed dispute in FF, in a lot more detail.

[Rollo_Tomasi]

speaking of 'What If?', I can't wait for Marvel to release some 'What If''s centered on Civil War. There are some intriguing takes they could do.

[Rollo_Tomasi]

Yes. I am aware Bendis wrote Illuminati. What I would have liked is JMS writing the Sue/Reed dispute in FF, in a lot more detail.

Fantastic Four #540 comes out this week, maybe there will be more about this situation in there?

[jackolover]

speaking of 'What If?', I can't wait for Marvel to release some 'What If''s centered on Civil War. There are some intriguing takes they could do.

What if Matt Murdock was the prime Anti-reg,(with Spidey), and Cap was the pro-reg?

[Slumber Hulk]

I think a good "What if" is if they entirely flipped both sides.

Other ideas:
"What if Thor had Hitler's brain?" ... wait has that been done already?