Are Tony and co. war profiteering?

[Kefky]

Alright, I figured this is gonna be one of those subjects that we're gonna talk about from now on, so might as well start a topic about it. ;)

In case some of you haven't seen it, it was shown in the preview for tomorrow's ASM that the government's investing big money on the companies dealing with the SRA. Here's the link:

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazi.../001758956.cfm

The real-world analogy is more than obvious, and damage control is clearly in it just for the dough, as has been shown in the current issues of wolverine, but it doesn't seem to be as cut-as-dry as that.

Tony and co. are undetaking a massive project here that involves cloning and nanities. We don't know the details about 50-state initiative, but from what we already know, it's pretty clear that it'll take a massive amount of funds to keep it going. And I don't wanna spoil anything, but as its shown in ASM 535, there's a ridicoulus amount of hi-tech technology going on there too. Probably isn't gonna be cheap to mantain it.

Now, I don't know the details about the Van-Dyne family fortune, but both Tony and Reed have been shown having financial problems lately. So they clearly need this money. Is it even possible for them to be making a profit here? What do you guys think?

[The Charlatan]

As dead to me as a character as Tony Stark is right now, I still don't beleive that he's doing any of this for any personal financial profit. He's still doing this for his princples. Any incedental profit coming from this he probably regards as 'dirty, but nessicary'.

[bulbasteve]

I really doubt it, these guys have enough on their plate already. Anyway they are just about the only corporations who actually have that sort of technology that aren't about a million times more evil than SHIELD in its wildest dreams could ever hope to be.

[stillanerd]

Ah, another fine instance that shows the pro-registration side are not the good guys, especially when JMS is making comparisons between Stark Enterprises and Halliburton. Oh yeah, Marvel's not REALLY commenting on current events.:rolleyes:

However, the ones who seem to be doing the most war-profiterring are Damage Control. It was just revealed in Wolverine that not only did they supply Nitro with mutant growth hormones and encourage him to create random destruction (meaning Stamford wasn't entirely an accident) and thus creating more fights between superhumans (which, of course, encreases their profit margins from all the no-bid contracts they get from cleaning up the wreckage left behind during said superhero battles) but they're also utilizing and adapting the wrecked technology and tissue samples left behind in those battles to create their own super-soldiers.

[Vaal]

This may be icing on the cake for Tony, but Reed honestly seems just to be content to make and play with new toys (like the Negative Zone insanity fortress)

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Heh, 'insanity fortress,' I like that.

I think a case could be made that there's no immoral profiteering going on - I'm not sure, but I'd need to see more evidence (including, obviously, reading ASM535 thoroughly when it comes out here this afternoon). But consider: how many companies could really be trusted to competently provide the infrastructure that SHIELD/the government needs? Is there anyone else out there who could supply and maintain the equipment and facilities we've seen, without spending months or years in R&D, and risking multiple failures through inexperience?

The no-bid angle is worrisome - but again, consider how long it takes for a standard bidding process these days. Congress appoints a sub-committee to twiddle their thumbs for months on end coming up with the RFP, would-be contractors are given months more to decide whether to even bid, and it can be literally years before a bid is chosen. If you got peeved waiting for CW4 to arrive, just be glad it didn't have to go through Washington. It's not uncommon for a need to be obsolete by the time a contractor is finally selected to provide for it. Under those circumstances, and given the critical nature of the crisis now, there's good reason to skip it all, and simply appoint the contractor who seems best suited to do the job from day one. If you make the wrong choice and your contractor screws it up, you're in deep crap - but that's a fair risk, compared to having to fight a superhero civil war without proper hardware or facilities for years.

[XPac]

Hmmm... I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt and say that whatever profit Tony is clearly making off of this is simply a nice coindicence. And I guess there's nothing inherently wrong with making a profit.

But at the same time, it did look like Peter had some concerns, even if he raised them in his usual joking manner. If Peter has concerns, I'm thinking maybe we should have them too.

[jackolover]

I would be interested in knowing whether Tony, Reed and Pym have formed a company. Why not? Superhero Amalgamated. Like you say, these guys are not doing well financially, and the best way to get comfortably solvent, is if they come together and do projects of the sort like in CW. They seemed to have formed themselves into an ad hoc group anyway. Why not incorporate. It may stave off any more Ultron debarkles, with 3 minds instead of one putting it together.

I have liked this aspect of CW, that the 3 genius' are cooperating over a common goal. Reeds enthusiasm with being in the company of such illustrious gentlemen has made him more animated then normal.

So yes, I do think they are profiteering from this CW, and I like it.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

But at the same time, it did look like Peter had some concerns, even if he raised them in his usual joking manner. If Peter has concerns, I'm thinking maybe we should have them too.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Peter has a very strong moral compass, and that's somewhere I'd listen closely to what he had to say, but is he really very well-versed in the ways of big business? Making a profit isn't illegal or immoral - in times of war, one of the things you really, really want is for your war businesses to be on sound financial footing, so that they'll be able to keep turning out product as long as they're needed. Of course, there's plenty of ways to go about making a profit that are immoral - see Damage Control. But is Peter experienced enough in corporate affairs to be able to tell the difference between Stark Industries profiteering and prospering - especially considering he's evidently just hearing about this stuff second-hand from CNN?

[jaxcs]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Peter has a very strong moral compass, and that's somewhere I'd listen closely to what he had to say, but is he really very well-versed in the ways of big business? Making a profit isn't illegal or immoral - in times of war, one of the things you really, really want is for your war businesses to be on sound financial footing, so that they'll be able to keep turning out product as long as they're needed. Of course, there's plenty of ways to go about making a profit that are immoral - see Damage Control. But is Peter experienced enough in corporate affairs to be able to tell the difference between Stark Industries profiteering and prospering - especially considering he's evidently just hearing about this stuff second-hand from CNN?

Yeah, but here's the thing. Those words were put into his mouth by a writer. So, if he says something, it is possible that there is some foreshadowing going on. Unless, of course, the writers decided to change course mid stream and we know that never happens, right?:D

That said, I don't think of TS as a war profiteer, the same way Damage Control is a war profiteer. TS has many sins to his name, insane greed isn't one of them.

[trickster]

This may be icing on the cake for Tony, but Reed honestly seems just to be content to make and play with new toys (like the Negative Zone insanity fortress)

Actually, you'll see they are profiteering if you read ASM 535. Although I can sympathize with Reed in that issue. Iron Man, though? No doubt about it. IM and Cap are like Rex Mason (Metamorpho) and John Stewart, respectively in that JLU episode.

hearing about this stuff second-hand from CNN?

I dunno, "no-bid contract" sounds like a no-brainer to anyone with well even a quarter of a brain.

Making a profit isn't illegal or immoral - in times of war, one of the things you really, really want is for your war businesses to be on sound financial footing, so that they'll be able to keep turning out product as long as they're needed

No, but at least don't preach morals when you're getting no-bid contracts and killing your friends in the process.

Tony's making a killing... in the stock market, I mean. :D

[Jmacq1]

As much crap as he's been pulling, I suspect when Tony says "Really? I hadn't noticed." He probably meant it.

As busy as he is coordinating the "Super Hero Task Force" I'd wager that Stark International is probably firmly in the control of its' board of directors or whatnot. Tony can't really be bothered to deal with that stuff right now.

[the Dagman]

That report stated that because Stark Enterprises is a public company, Stark has become one of the richest men in the country as a result of his stock price increase. (This is pointed out after noting FF Inc. is a private holding company. If a company is not private, then it is public. Meaning it is publicly traded on the stock market.) This means that he is NOT in financial dire straits and he is profiting from the suffering of others. In my book, that is immoral. It may not be illegal, it is immoral. Then again, he only makes that money if he sells part or all of his stock. And if he does so, he may be at risk of losing control of his company. Although he could use his stock as collateral for a loan.

[Markavian]

And I think this must be added: No one But Stark and FF Inc could do the things the SHRA Calls for.nd while they may be getting a lot of money I bet there isnt a huge profit margin because what they are doing is so revolutionary and ground breaking.The Ror (Rate of Return) Would probally be higher if they had invested elsewhere.But The thing about Goverment contracts is they are THERE . And likely to stay there. I hazard a guess long term they will net a good profit in the end.Unless the Hulk or Secret Avengers drop in and busts everything up..I dont think insurance would cover that.

[Kefky]

But at the same time, it did look like Peter had some concerns, even if he raised them in his usual joking manner. If Peter has concerns, I'm thinking maybe we should have them too.

Not really. The issue's told completely from Peter's point of view, and it's showing him become a bit more neurotic. I'm not saying it's not another reason for him to worry, but I don't think it his suspicion should be immidiately taken as fact either.

Actually, you'll see they are profiteering if you read ASM 535.

Really? I read the issue, and I don't think I'm see what you're seeing.

And if you're gonna post a spoiler, change the color of the writing to white so other people don't trow a trantum. ;)

That report stated that because Stark Enterprises is a public company, Stark has become one of the richest men in the country as a result of his stock price increase. (This is pointed out after noting FF Inc. is a private holding company. If a company is not private, then it is public. Meaning it is publicly traded on the stock market.) This means that he is NOT in financial dire straits and he is profiting from the suffering of others. In my book, that is immoral. It may not be illegal, it is immoral. Then again, he only makes that money if he sells part or all of his stock. And if he does so, he may be at risk of losing control of his company. Although he could use his stock as collateral for a loan.

Again, though, is it inconceivable that all this money would go to their projects, considering they're obviously very expensive even to maintain?