Kingpin and Civil war***Possible Spoiler***

**Nefarius** · 09-26-2006, 10:14 AM

I just reading a rumor about Fisk's participation in Civil War arc.He will offer a deal to Iron Man — consideration on his sentence in exchange for information about Captain America's Resistance base.

Link.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_%28comics%29

It looks that during all this mess,the kingpin goes back to his throne....

**brundlefly** · 09-26-2006, 10:30 AM

Now that I would like; for Fisk to take advantage of all this upheaval to cut a deal, get out of jail and then regain his position as the "Kingpin of Crime." :D

2 knocks against that scenario, though: One, it's Wikipedia, so it could be just a rumor. Two, just because he offers Stark a deal doesn't mean Stark will accept it. Stark could pull a Matt Murdock in "Devil in Cell Block D" and renege on him at the last minute or transfer him to the Negative Zone gulag.

**kalorama** · 09-26-2006, 10:30 AM

Seems unlikely that the Kingpin would know anything more about what Cap's up to than than I.M. and SHIELD would.

**XPac** · 09-26-2006, 10:39 AM

Kingpin does need to get out of jail eventually. I suppose this is a good a way as any.

Though it's interesting that a guy sitting in a jail cell would know more than Tony and SHIELD.

**brundlefly** · 09-26-2006, 10:50 AM

Maybe Fisk will have the "word on the street" about Cap sold to him by an underling or informant looking for favors. SHIELD, for all it's technology, is somewhat out of the loop when it comes to jailhouse grapevines and so forth. Perhaps our mysterious masked man in CW#4 (who, it appears, does know where Cap's base is) is said informant?

Eh, I'm not getting my hopes up about this. Fisk will live up to his end of the deal and then get screwed over, as seems to be his lot in life these days.

**Alpow** · 09-26-2006, 11:26 AM

If true Stark would cross the line from putting barely controlled murders back on the street in order to imprison people who are roughly zero threat to society, to putting uncontrolled murders back on the street to catch people who are zero threat to society.

Keep it up Tony, you are doing us all proud.

**Nefarius** · 09-26-2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Alpow

If true Stark would cross the line from putting barely controlled murders back on the street in order to imprison people who are roughly zero threat to society, to putting uncontrolled murders back on the street to catch people who are zero threat to society.

Keep it up Tony, you are doing us all proud.

What?Wilson Fisk is not a murder.He is a humble spice dealer.:D

Yeah,that's the ironic.Tony is capable to use any means to beat the anti-registration side,even that's mean to make a deal with one of the most notorius figures of Marvel's underworld.But it looks logical.Kingpin is the only one who can spread the word and finds from the mob infos about Cap's hideout.

**kalorama** · 09-26-2006, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Nefarius

What?Wilson Fisk is not a murder.He is a humble spice dealer.:D

Yeah,that's the ironic.Tony is capable to use any means to beat the anti-registration side,even that's mean to make a deal with one of the most notorius figures of Marvel's underworld.But it looks logical.Kingpin is the only one who can spread the word and finds from the mob infos about Cap's hideout.

If SHIELD needs FIsk's help to tap into underworld chatter about where one of their own rogue operatives is hiding out, they're pretty much a bust as an intelligence agency.

**XPac** · 09-26-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by kalorama

If SHIELD needs FIsk's help to tap into underworld chatter about where one of their own rogue operatives is hiding out, they're pretty much a bust as an intelligence agency.

It is interesting to note that several heroes have managed to find Cap and join up with him.

Johnney and Sue seem to at least THINK they can find and join up with Caps side.

If Cap is that hard to find, I wonder how his size is able to get new members. The little resistance group in Frontline couldn't find Cap. And obviously Tony, Reed, and SHIELD can't either. But other people seem to be doing it.

**Nefarius** · 09-26-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by kalorama

If SHIELD needs FIsk's help to tap into underworld chatter about where one of their own rogue operatives is hiding out, they're pretty much a bust as an intelligence agency.

Well,just look a lot of real intelligence services.MI6,CIA or even Mosad(by some the best secret service in the world) made a lot of mistakes.So,don't feel so surprised about SHIELD incompetence.

**brundlefly** · 09-26-2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Nefarius

Well,just look a lot of real intelligence services.MI6,CIA or even Mosad(by some the best secret service in the world) made a lot of mistakes.So,don't feel so surprised about SHIELD incompetence.

Exactly; SHIELD, like any bloated government agency, no doubt suffers from lack of communication between departments, stifling bureaucracy and red tape, etc. I have no problems believing that they're not as "plugged in" as they think they are (much like our own FBI and CIA) and that Fisk, even in jail, would have access to contacts and informants that SHIELD wouldn't know about or be keeping tabs on. Though Sue and Johnny being able to track down Cap while SHIELD is unable to do the same would start to really stretch believability, as Sue and Johnny have never been portrayed as particularly "streetwise." Unless Cap gives them some kind of subtle signal as to his whereabouts, they theoretically shouldn't be able to find him either.

**kalorama** · 09-26-2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by brundlefly

Exactly; SHIELD, like any bloated government agency, no doubt suffers from lack of communication between departments, stifling bureaucracy and red tape, etc. I have no problems believing that they're not as "plugged in" as they think they are (much like our own FBI and CIA) and that Fisk, even in jail, would have access to contacts and informants that SHIELD wouldn't know about or be keeping tabs on.

The problem with that theory is that there's no logical reason to believe Fisk's contacts would have any idea where they are either. it would be one thing if Steve, Sam, and Luke were spening their off hours throwing back brews in an underworld dive bar, letting slip clues to their plans, but that seems unlikely. There's no reason to think Cap and Co. are hanging out anywhere where they'd cross paths with any of Fisk's underworld sources. As a matter of fact, at least some of the places they've been hiding are old safehouses established by SHIELD's own former director. If SHIELD needs the help of an imprisoned gang boss to find one of their own people's favorite hiding places, they're pretty much useless as an intellegence gathering entity.

**PunchesThruWalls** · 09-26-2006, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by brundlefly

Though Sue and Johnny being able to track down Cap while SHIELD is unable to do the same would start to really stretch believability, as Sue and Johnny have never been portrayed as particularly "streetwise." Unless Cap gives them some kind of subtle signal as to his whereabouts, they theoretically shouldn't be able to find him either.

I don't think this is how the majority of heroes are finding Cap. If I wanted to join the Secret Avengers, I wouldn't bother trying to find them. I would just let it be known I wanted to be found. I'd drop hints to Night Nurse, X-Factor, and other known sympathizers. I'm sure former members of the Avengers, New Warriors, and other teams have methods (such as dead drops) to pass messages I could use to at least spread the word, as well.

If I'm a worthwhile member of the team, they'll find me. If my only power is write crap on my face, they probably won't.

There are some obvious people who did find the SA, though. Spider-Woman found them, probably with Fury's direct help. Cable can probably find anyone, anywhere, who's not completely off-grid.

**Nefarius** · 09-26-2006, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by kalorama

The problem with that theory is that there's no logical reason to believe Fisk's contacts would have any idea where they are either. it would be one thing if Steve, Sam, and Luke were spening their off hours throwing back brews in an underworld dive bar, letting slip clues to their plans, but that seems unlikely. There's no reason to think Cap and Co. are hanging out anywhere where they'd cross paths with any of Fisk's underworld sources. As a matter of fact, at least some of the places they've been hiding are old safehouses established by SHIELD's own former director. If SHIELD needs the help of an imprisoned gang boss to find one of their own people's favorite hiding places, they're pretty much useless as an intellegence gathering entity.

Do not underestimate the Kingpin's connections.Also,in real life,many secret services used people from the mob to take care a mission that would be difficult from them.For example,CIA used mafia to take care Fidel Castro during 60s-70s.It was the high security of Castro that saved him.And that's only one example from the cooperation of Mafia with secret services.

**brundlefly** · 09-26-2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by kalorama

The problem with that theory is that there's no logical reason to believe Fisk's contacts would have any idea where they are either. it would be one thing if Steve, Sam, and Luke were spening their off hours throwing back brews in an underworld dive bar, letting slip clues to their plans, but that seems unlikely. There's no reason to think Cap and Co. are hanging out anywhere where they'd cross paths with any of Fisk's underworld sources.

I agree with you on that; were the tip to come from the underwold, it would most likely it will be some form of contrived coincidence, like someone recognizing a member of Cap's crew out of costume on the street if they happened to slip up and blow their cover. But Fisk also has contacts in government, business, etc. from his time as the Kingpin along with his underworld contacts, so the tip-off could technically come from anywhere. The real problem would be why, since Fisk is currently in prison and not in a position of influence where someone would be trying to curry favor with him by providing information.

Originally Posted by kalorama

As a matter of fact, at least some of the places they've been hiding are old safehouses established by SHIELD's own former director. If SHIELD needs the help of an imprisoned gang boss to find one of their own people's favorite hiding places, they're pretty much useless as an intellegence gathering entity.

Well, you just made my point there. If Cap's crew are hanging out in old SHIELD bases (or even just former bases of Fury's) and SHIELD hasn't even checked those out yet, they're not really on the ball here.