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  1. #76
    Groucho Marxiste Omar Karindu's Avatar
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    Default Some suggestions...

    1. Is there any truth to the accusations made here and there that non-EC comics companies basically gamed the Comics Code to run EC out of the business? This may be one of those indeterminable questions, since it was pretty clearly EC's comics and ideas that attracted ire in the first place, so EC was going to be hit hard by the CCA in any case. I'm just curious as to whether any documents or anything have ever surfaced to suggest that EC's coompetitors helped things along for their own benefit.

    2. Was Bob Harras really fired as Marvel's EiC amid comments about someone's gay son?

    3. Was the Squadron Supreme miniseries by Mark Gruenwald commissioned as a preemptive effort after news about Watchmen became known?

    4. Did Grant Morrison really sneak the death of Magneto past Marvel editorical by deliberately sending his script in late, or did Marvel simply backpedal after the fact?

    5. Is Mark Millar an ordained Presbyterian minister, as I've seen claimed here and there? And if not, where'd the rumor come from? (My guess: Millar.)

    6. And, for a question that probably doesn't deserve an answer but certainly represents a long-floated Net rumor, anyone care to take a crack at the rumors that Chris Claremont's personal life isreflected by the bondage and mind-control themes prevalent in much of his comics work? Or was that just a nasty bit of Claremont-slander that took on a life of its own because of a kind of celebrity-baiting, wish-it-were-true, superficial plausibility?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar Karindu View Post

    6. And, for a question that probably doesn't deserve an answer but certainly represents a long-floated Net rumor, anyone care to take a crack at the rumors that Chris Claremont's personal life isreflected by the bondage and mind-control themes prevalent in much of his comics work? Or was that just a nasty bit of Claremont-slander that took on a life of its own because of a kind of celebrity-baiting, wish-it-were-true, superficial plausibility?

    The Hellfire Club was a REAL club in New York City that was a leather/bondage sex club.....knowing this and the fact that he's a writer for 'childrens' books like comics....makes him a v. sick individual to include such a thing in this type of medium.

    That and just simply hate the bastard for his crap stories and the way blindly dedicated fans over inflate everything he's done...yes his stories were good back when he was first on marvel....but everything since has been clear and utter shit....how the hell do you write STORM unable to control a friggin hurricane?!

  3. #78
    Born under a wandrin Star Tobias March's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost View Post
    The Hellfire Club was a REAL club in New York City that was a leather/bondage sex club.....knowing this and the fact that he's a writer for 'childrens' books like comics....makes him a v. sick individual to include such a thing in this type of medium.

    That and just simply hate the bastard for his crap stories and the way blindly dedicated fans over inflate everything he's done...yes his stories were good back when he was first on marvel....but everything since has been clear and utter shit....how the hell do you write STORM unable to control a friggin hurricane?!
    You sir or madam, are good people :)

  4. #79
    Groucho Marxiste Omar Karindu's Avatar
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    The Hellfire Club was a REAL club in New York City that was a leather/bondage sex club.....knowing this and the fact that he's a writer for 'childrens' books like comics....makes him a v. sick individual to include such a thing in this type of medium.
    Well, no, not exactly....the Hellfire Club was patently inspired by an ol episode of the Avengers TV show from England, aired long before the BDSM club of the early 80s ever opened. The Club members, as delineated in...gosh, one of Brian Cronin's earlier Urban Legends columns was based very heavily on that episode and its members on contemporary film and TV stars.

    Besides, if you're complaining about the Hellfire Club arc, oughtn't you already be mad about prior storylines featuring Wolverine slashing people up with his claws, Xavier shacking up with a birdwoman from the stars while Cyclops' father boffs a skunk-woman, Proteus possessing his father in order to (implicitly) reenact the marital rape of his mother (Moira McTaggart) that produced him?

    At any rate, I'm thinking more of the general BDSM subtext to Claremont's work, and the Net rumors one sees about his private life in relation to those subtextual (and sometimes textual) elements.

  5. #80
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    im not complaining about the Hellfire arc....but I'm more inclined to believe the walking heart attack created the arc out of something in his own 'backyard' such as the BDSM club rather than some random Avengers episode...did americans even GET those episodes when they were on?

    As for his real life.....I try DESPERATELY NOT to visualize that 'polar bear' in a harness


    and its Madame, Tobias, :) I feel like I'm at home with all these anti-claremont people...its SO liberating after being trapped over at Xfan

  6. #81
    Agent of the Wraith Trouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost View Post
    im not complaining about the Hellfire arc....but I'm more inclined to believe the walking heart attack created the arc out of something in his own 'backyard' such as the BDSM club rather than some random Avengers episode...did americans even GET those episodes when they were on?

    As for his real life.....I try DESPERATELY NOT to visualize that 'polar bear' in a harness


    and its Madame, Tobias, :) I feel like I'm at home with all these anti-claremont people...its SO liberating after being trapped over at Xfan
    Given your opinion, your board handle and avatar would seem ironic or at the very least hypocritical, yes?

  7. #82
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    Very much Ironic....but i'm inclined to believe that since comics are a series of stories written by more than one person....regardless of who "created" emma frost..she's been RECREATED many many times and those writers (morrison, ellis, milligan, carey, whedon,pak, etc.) deserve just as much credit.

  8. #83
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    I've not gone to, but I'm pretty sure the NYC Hellfire club IS still around. And yes, it's an S&M place. When Dave Attel had his comedy central show on, he went in. It's not all dark and mysterious as it used to be, but I think it's still here, somewhere.

  9. #84
    Agent of the Wraith Trouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost View Post
    Very much Ironic....but i'm inclined to believe that since comics are a series of stories written by more than one person....regardless of who "created" emma frost..she's been RECREATED many many times and those writers (morrison, ellis, milligan, carey, whedon,pak, etc.) deserve just as much credit.
    I get you. I've done the same thing with this character called Bluewing.

    Interesting then that other writers were able to turn her into someone that you like.

  10. #85
    Groucho Marxiste Omar Karindu's Avatar
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    First, Claremont and Byrne are not Americans, and Claremont was born in the UK.

    Second, the Avengers TV series was indeed broadcast on American TV in the late 1960s by ABC back when there were only three channels on TV. The sale to US television coincided with Rigg's taking on the role.

    Third, Brian Cronin, the author of the feature this thread is actually about, has covered the links between the TV show and the Hellfire arc extensively already. If this shot of Diana Rigg and the words of penciller/co-plotter John Byrne don't convince you, there's nothing reason and logic can do.

    Fourth, you started this volley with a condemnation of Claremont's personal morals and now seem to be merely complaining about his storytelling and his fans; these shifting bases do not lend you the air of someone writing in good faith.

    And I say that as someone who is neither a fan of Chris Claremont's post 1980s writing nor as someone opposed to spirited debate so long as good faith is the basis of everyone's positions. Oh, and some cry of foul, I'm not a moderator or whatever, so I'm hardly trying to silence anyone.
    Last edited by Omar Karindu; 03-26-2007 at 01:03 AM.

  11. #86
    Lenient Tyrant/Moderator Brian Cronin's Avatar
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    Yeah, this is a rather odd argument. Sorry for the trouble, Omar.

    -Brian
    Comics Should Be Good, which features Comic Book Legends Revealed!... check them out!

    Also, be sure to check out my web site, Urban Legends Revealed!, for urban legends about Sports, TV, Movies, Music and more!

    And while we're at it, please buy my new book, Why Does Batman Carry Shark Repellent? And while you're at that, please buy my first book, Was Superman a Spy? and Other Comic Book Legends Revealed!

  12. #87
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    Just b/c he's from england and once upon a time there was an avengers episode...doesn't mean thats the ONLY explaination.....if you want me to gripe about how introducing sexually oriented themes and realities into mediums geared toward children is wrong....i'd be more than happy to gripe.

    But someone did ask if rumors were true about him being into BDSM and introducing those elements into his stories and I said there really was/is a BDSM club in NYC.....but i didn't introduce the discussion just commented on it

  13. #88
    Lenient Tyrant/Moderator Brian Cronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar Karindu View Post
    1. Is there any truth to the accusations made here and there that non-EC comics companies basically gamed the Comics Code to run EC out of the business? This may be one of those indeterminable questions, since it was pretty clearly EC's comics and ideas that attracted ire in the first place, so EC was going to be hit hard by the CCA in any case. I'm just curious as to whether any documents or anything have ever surfaced to suggest that EC's coompetitors helped things along for their own benefit.

    2. Was Bob Harras really fired as Marvel's EiC amid comments about someone's gay son?

    3. Was the Squadron Supreme miniseries by Mark Gruenwald commissioned as a preemptive effort after news about Watchmen became known?

    4. Did Grant Morrison really sneak the death of Magneto past Marvel editorical by deliberately sending his script in late, or did Marvel simply backpedal after the fact?

    5. Is Mark Millar an ordained Presbyterian minister, as I've seen claimed here and there? And if not, where'd the rumor come from? (My guess: Millar.)

    6. And, for a question that probably doesn't deserve an answer but certainly represents a long-floated Net rumor, anyone care to take a crack at the rumors that Chris Claremont's personal life isreflected by the bondage and mind-control themes prevalent in much of his comics work? Or was that just a nasty bit of Claremont-slander that took on a life of its own because of a kind of celebrity-baiting, wish-it-were-true, superficial plausibility?
    A lot of good ones, Omar. I'll definitely take a look at them.

    Well, except for #6. ;)

    -Brian
    Comics Should Be Good, which features Comic Book Legends Revealed!... check them out!

    Also, be sure to check out my web site, Urban Legends Revealed!, for urban legends about Sports, TV, Movies, Music and more!

    And while we're at it, please buy my new book, Why Does Batman Carry Shark Repellent? And while you're at that, please buy my first book, Was Superman a Spy? and Other Comic Book Legends Revealed!

  14. #89
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost View Post
    Just b/c he's from england and once upon a time there was an avengers episode...doesn't mean thats the ONLY explaination.....if you want me to gripe about how introducing sexually oriented themes and realities into mediums geared toward children is wrong....i'd be more than happy to gripe.

    But someone did ask if rumors were true about him being into BDSM and introducing those elements into his stories and I said there really was/is a BDSM club in NYC.....but i didn't introduce the discussion just commented on it
    You also labeled Claremont "a v. sick individual" based on pretty scant evidence

  15. #90
    Ex-Cheeks Reptisaurus!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    You also labeled Claremont "a v. sick individual" based on pretty scant evidence
    It's not just that it's...

    Y'know, there's a certain kind of personal fuckupetedness in my life I would never have, like, possibly imagined existed in the world if it wasn't for comic fans on the internet.

    You sir or madam, are good people
    And this is another kind. I hope this is some kind of terrible fucking joke gone wrong, or dude lost a bet or something. But it's probably not.
    MarkAndrew at Comics Should Be Good
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