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  1. #61
    Artemis' Sidekick! artemisboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    I'm not against a WW/Bats relationship in JLU, as the characterizations are different enough to allow for it. But if they do it, they really ought to make Clark an antagonist in that relationship -- I believe all proper romances should have an antagonist.
    But in JLU Diana and Clark are not that close. They are merely teammates who respect each other. Just like how Clark respects Green Lantern. They don't even have the close comic book friendship on their side. If ANYone should be an antagonist to Diana's and Bruce's relationship it should be Catwoman. Just how long HAS it been since Catwoman been shown in Batman/Justice League? (Not counting the new Batman cartoon as that is out of JLU continuity.)

    If you want to see a specific issue on Diana's and Bruce's romance together, I suggest JLA #90. I believe this is the same issue in which Diana laughed at the notion of her having a romantic relationship with Clark. Wonder Woman #170 also further supports the "nothing but a strong friendship" angle of Diana and Clark's relationship. After all, why would Clark wanna fool around with Diana when he LOVES Lois?

    - Peter
    "Holy guacamole! This looks like a job for Wonder Pig!" - Ms. Piggy

  2. #62
    Senior Member Evan Waters's Avatar
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    Is there any one villain who's really WW's chief nemesis? In the sense that Superman has Lex Luthor, Batman has the Joker, GL has Sinestro (sometimes), etc.

  3. #63
    Artemis' Sidekick! artemisboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Waters
    Is there any one villain who's really WW's chief nemesis? In the sense that Superman has Lex Luthor, Batman has the Joker, GL has Sinestro (sometimes), etc.
    Not really. Rucka is trying to make Veronica Cale into Diana's Lex Luthor, but if you had to boil them down ... Diana's chief rival WAS Ares until he became more benevilant. Now it would have to be Circe. Devistation has a serious hate for Diana but she's not been seen in quite a while.

    - Peter
    "Holy guacamole! This looks like a job for Wonder Pig!" - Ms. Piggy

  4. #64
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    Yes, in fact, Johns is pro-Supes/WW. Let's view the evidence, shall we?

    1. Most obvious one: the Conner/Cass relationship. How many issues went by before Johns had them leaping into each other's laps? And the fact that their future selves remained lovers in the current story arc (while calling themselves Wonder Woman and Superman). There's absolutely NO subtext there? Johns has NO leanings in regards to Supes/WW one way or the other? None at all? Right.

    2. Johns constantly writes Supes and WW together in crossover issues of other titles (like Flash). Again, absolutely NO subtext there. Nope.

    3. And the most blatant refrence that I recall occurs in JSA Secret Origins #1 in which Stargirl tried to engage WW in some gossip:

    Stargirl: "He's so hot, though. Don't you think so, Wonder Woman?" [in refrence to Supes]
    WW: "...he's a good man, Star." [looking away]
    Stargirl: "People are always talking about you and him. Wonder Woman and Superman. Like you belong together."
    Stargirl: "Well, Wonder Woman? Would you ever--?"
    WW: "Become romantically involved with Kal? I'm the ambassador of peace for Themyscira. I don't have time for romance."
    Powergirl: "Whoa. Like that's not dodging the question."

    Nope. Absolutely NO subtext in that exchange. Completely innocent chit-chat. Yep. Because Johns handles so many major titles now these days, his view of the relationship is going to get an inordinate amount of exposure, which is why I said he's tilted the balance clearly to WW/Supes at DC.

    Now, moving onto the JLU. As I said, the characterization are different enough to allow for a Bats/WW pairing (she doesn't tower above mortals in the animated series and Bats is a bit more laid-back). I'm just saying: if they do go for it, I wish they'd make Clark the antagonist -- like make him be a bastard and pull authority to get in their way. The reason why I want Clark for this is because there's no one else that can fill the role; the character has to frequently appear and have a part in stories, and have the credibility to challenge Bats and/or WW in a meanigful way. So it has to be a core member. Hawkgirl and Stewart are spoken for. MM isn't compatible with humans. That leaves Clark. Wellllll I guess you could have Flash take this role (but he'd actually have to appear in the damn series) and now that i think about it that would be a good choice to.

    And Diana, excuse me, is close to Clark in the series. Even if you deny that there's any attraction, she was in tears and ready to execute Toyman on the spot when they thought he had killed Supes.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    Yes, in fact, Johns is pro-Supes/WW. Let's view the evidence, shall we?

    1. Most obvious one: the Conner/Cass relationship. How many issues went by before Johns had them leaping into each other's laps? And the fact that their future selves remained lovers in the current story arc (while calling themselves Wonder Woman and Superman). There's absolutely NO subtext there? Johns has NO leanings in regards to Supes/WW one way or the other? None at all? Right.

    LOL. you make me laugh. they're completely different characters. you're trying to force them to fit the mold of what YOU think. donna troy -- who is VERY similar to ww, had a relationship with kyle rayner -- does that mean ww is attracted to green lantern too?

    see my point?

    let it go. you're reading too much into things.

    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    2. Johns constantly writes Supes and WW together in crossover issues of other titles (like Flash). Again, absolutely NO subtext there. Nope.
    once again, GUTB...i realize this is VERY hard for you, but they're teammates. of course they're gonna work together.

    did you read those issues? NOTHING happened. NO subtext. try reading those issues. is ww gonna have a relationship with everyone that she works with? no.

    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    3. And the most blatant refrence that I recall occurs in JSA Secret Origins #1 in which Stargirl tried to engage WW in some gossip:

    Stargirl: "He's so hot, though. Don't you think so, Wonder Woman?" [in refrence to Supes]
    WW: "...he's a good man, Star." [looking away]
    Stargirl: "People are always talking about you and him. Wonder Woman and Superman. Like you belong together."
    Stargirl: "Well, Wonder Woman? Would you ever--?"
    WW: "Become romantically involved with Kal? I'm the ambassador of peace for Themyscira. I don't have time for romance."
    Powergirl: "Whoa. Like that's not dodging the question."
    it's secret ORIGINS. go back and reread it with a clear mind, and without looking for things that aren't there. the fact that you're bolding all these words says it all -- you're reading too much into things. all this is in the past, anyway. it's secret ORIGINS, for crying out loud.

    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    Nope. Absolutely NO subtext in that exchange. Completely innocent chit-chat. Yep. Because Johns handles so many major titles now these days, his view of the relationship is going to get an inordinate amount of exposure, which is why I said he's tilted the balance clearly to WW/Supes at DC.
    first, GUTB, the "balance" at DC is CLEARLY not ww/supes.

    you said it yourself. austen wanted to pair up supes with ww...and he was TOLD NO. that speaks volumes.

    second, how can you possibly say that the balance is pro ww/supes when the writer of ww -- greg rucka, is clearly anti ww/supes. he has more say than geoff johns.

    considering he writes both ww and adventures of superman. geoff johns writes...what? titans, flash, and green lantern. not even close. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF ALL. try to understand.

    GEOFF JOHNS DOES NOT WRITE WW OR SUPERMAN OR JLA, ETC. he's not in favor of ww/supes...and he has no say.

    try to be rational. cuz you're making no sense. sure, geoff johns is one of the most important writers at DC, but he's not writing ANY of the titles in question. so NO, the balance is not in favor of ww/supes.

    keep dreaming. it's not happening. no matter how much YOU want it to.


    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    And Diana, excuse me, is close to Clark in the series. Even if you deny that there's any attraction, she was in tears and ready to execute Toyman on the spot when they thought he had killed Supes.
    of course she's close to clark in the series. they're friends. i never denied that.

    but you're seeing things that aren't there. seriously.

    there's zero flirtation. zero interest beyond friendship.

    go watch "this little piggy", and just pretend that it was clark instead of bruce. ;)

  6. #66
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    the bottom line, GUTB, is that...


    when austen wanted to pair up supes with ww, what did DC say?

    that's right -- they said NO. :)

    ww offered to let lois use the lasso on her -- regarding her attraction to clark.

    you can't hide the truth from the lasso -- would ww make that offer if she were attracted to clark?

    no.

    on JLU, the most mainstream version, who is ww paired with? :)

    i mean, it's all there, and you're choosing to ignore it.

    let it go. ww/supes was a possibility a LONG time ago. honestly, let it go.

  7. #67
    Shining Knight of Jaw HynerianChef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUTB
    Yes, in fact, Johns is pro-Supes/WW. Let's view the evidence, shall we?

    1. Most obvious one: the Conner/Cass relationship. How many issues went by before Johns had them leaping into each other's laps? And the fact that their future selves remained lovers in the current story arc (while calling themselves Wonder Woman and Superman). There's absolutely NO subtext there? Johns has NO leanings in regards to Supes/WW one way or the other? None at all? Right.
    I'm not debating your overall point, but if this is the most obvious evidence... well, not really. I'm fairly sure the basis for the Conner/Cass relationship came long before Geoff Johns took over as their regular writer. Cass alone has been infatuated with Superboy as far back as the early issues of Young Justice, as I recall, not to mention Wonder Woman's own title where there was an entire issue dedicated to it. The fact that a current couple remains together in the future is no big surprise really... honestly, it's something fairly common in time-travel / future stories actually, from Piotr/Kitty in Days Of Future Past to even Emma/Cyclops in X-Men: The End.

    Johns might well be pro Supes/WW, but I don't think Conner/Cass really count as some attempt at subtext in this regard.

  8. #68
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    I reproduced the dialouge found in JSA Secret Origins #1 exactly, inlcuding the bolded text. Do any of you read that and not think Johns is pro-WW/Supes?

  9. #69
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    Question How about the way Cronus atacked Ww using her hiden feeling for Clark

    I believed it was in WW170 called trinity [not the mimi series] That Cronus from the Titans tried to kill Diana [precursors of the olympians!] by using the wonder dome to trap her in a fantasy world of her own creation. He did it by giving her just what she wanted, Clark! In her perfect world she finaly got what she wanted most and that was Clark. In her coma induced fantasy she and clark had a powerful romantic relationship. They fought side by side, loved and made love were even married.

    When Batman and superman came to save her they to were tapped in her dream. It was perfect for her even if she and her friends were slowly dieing. only when she began to notice that no matter how happy her clark seemed to be, he had a look on his face that somthing was missing from their perfect world. It was at the dinner table when Clark and Diana was telling their friend about the baby that was on the way. Did the whole thing fall apart. First it was bruce telling her in a note that all this was wrong. That somthing was issing out of clarks life and Diana finaly woke up and was one pUed Amazon. I also happened to notice that when bruce left and Clark was flying off to be with Lois. There were tears in Diana's eyes! But it is equaly true Wonder woman would not become between husband and wife. and as for Clark, man can love two women at the same time, perhaps even want both of them. But most important of all remain faiyhfull to the one! That very short story I found and have posted here on these boads explain it
    better than I can!

  10. #70
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    That one was a two-parter. There were actually two different fantasies. The first one was when Diana was trapped by herself in a fantasy in which she lived a life she managed to achieve what she set out to do, change the world for the better. During this fantasy, Supes and Bats broke into the wonderdome. Just as she was on her death bed, after having doing everything she had set out to do, she suddenly wanted More and thus seemed to end the first fantasy. The second fantasy occured when the wonderdome trapped all three of them together. In this one, Diana met Clark Kent, quickly became lovers, double-teamed all sorts of adventures with him. After a while he introduced her to his pal, Bruce, who acted as their confidant and closest friend. They finally got married and shortly after Diana got pregnant, Bruce broaches the subject of things not being right. Everybody knows this to be true, and they end the second fantasy, which rapidly fades away from memory like a dream. And yes, Diana cries at the end, presumably, having recalled the feeling of being in love.

  11. #71
    Just don't scratch it. Jessica Drew's Avatar
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    When did Donna Troy die? In what comic? What issue?

  12. #72
    The Ultimate chemicalx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Drew


    When did Donna Troy die? In what comic? What issue?
    Teen Titans/Young Justice crossover issue #3 I think. trying to stop a suerman robot Donna was shot through the heart and died instantly.

    At the end of the book there is a page of donna waking up on a distant world and going off into battle. the text read " Elsewhere, Donna Troy awakened in a desolate world, and heeded a cry into battle."

    maybe there is hope for the future

  13. #73
    Ninjas wear feety PJs Karl J. Barnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemicalx
    Teen Titans/Young Justice crossover issue #3 I think. trying to stop a suerman robot Donna was shot through the heart and died instantly.

    At the end of the book there is a page of donna waking up on a distant world and going off into battle. the text read " Elsewhere, Donna Troy awakened in a desolate world, and heeded a cry into battle."

    maybe there is hope for the future
    Maybe a mini-series or even an ongoing one, like Warlord(since she's in an alternative universe).

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by priestvyrce
    Maybe a mini-series or even an ongoing one, like Warlord(since she's in an alternative universe).
    We can only hope... I miss donna she was always one of my favorite DC characters. She should be on Teen Titans not starfire

  15. #75
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    Donna Troy's death was meanigful. Leave it be.

    We have a new Wonder Girl and she's doing just fine. To be honest her character is better than Donna's.

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