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  1. #211
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    IIRC, an agreement with the Molton family forces DC to put a WW title out every month.

    Should they stop publishing her, they´ll lose their rights over the character.

  2. #212
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
    IIRC, an agreement with the Molton family forces DC to put a WW title out every month.

    Should they stop publishing her, they´ll lose their rights over the character.
    According to the "Comic Book Urban Legends" column at the Comics Should Be Good blog, that is no longer the case.

  3. #213
    Junior Member shyguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj
    I'm not sure I agree. She has trouble selling decent numbers and I alway get the impression that DC only plug her as much as they do because they want one of the big 3 to be a woman. In reality though there isn't a big 3 - just a big 2.

    Dan
    I agree, and I think this "Big 3" nonsense just hurts the character by placing her in direct relation and subordination to Superman and Batman.

    Through most of her history, Wondy has been more at home with characters like Flash and Green Lantern (check out all those old Comics Cavalcade covers).

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyguy
    But let's face it - DC is never in a million years going to let anyone be as powerful as Superman, let alone more powerful (and before anyone brings up Supergirl, we all know that's not going to last).
    Tell that to Captain Marvel.....

    Wonder Woman is therefore always stuck being, at best, second-most-powerful (and usually she doesn't even get that).
    and making her 3, 4 or 50th is going to be better? I don't buy that logic....

    So we end up defining her by what she isn't rather than by what she is. I say forget that. It actually sets a bad role for women in the DCU ("The best woman is never as strong, fast, or durable as the best man!") and makes people look at Wondy as just a defective Superman.
    can of worms open: Isn't that life?


    Rather, I'd like to see her unique traits emphasized. She has incredible tools - the magic lasso, the indestructable bracelets, the razor-sharp tiara, the invisible jet, the purple healing ray, the mental radio - and incredible powers - she can jump for miles, outrun the fastest cars, break through the strongest chains, talk to animals.
    Besides the jump for miles stuff, I'm with you, she should fly, and she should use her skills, and she should be the most powerful woman in the DCU....

    Let her be a mid-level hero (tossing cars around, outrunning cars, gliding on air currents maybe, stopping a hail of bullets flat, lassoing a hundred people at once). Comparisons to Superman wouldn't make any sense, so people will stop making them. And as the most high-profile hero DC has, she'll get her own little niche.
    So she would be compared to hourman as opposed to superman? Depowering her would do one thing: OPen the 'fridge, and I know that's frowned upon around here....

  5. #215
    Junior Member shyguy's Avatar
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    Tell that to Captain Marvel.....
    Captain Marvel doesn't really interact with the rest of the DCU enough for it to be an issue, since he's not a member of the JLA and his assimilation into the DCU following Crisis hasn't really taken. And anyway, Captain Marvel isn't as powerful as Superman. Superman can do all kinds of stuff he can't.

    and making her 3, 4 or 50th is going to be better? I don't buy that logic....
    Taking her out of Superman's league completely discourages comparison by making it pointless and giving her her own niche rather than just competing wiht Superman. It also helps some of her villains (like the Cheetah and Giganta) make sense again (what kind of threat is Giganta to someone who can toss tanks into orbit?).

    and she should be the most powerful woman in the DCU....
    I especially don't see why that's necessary. Supergirl was the most powerful woman in the DCU for a long time and things seemed to work out okay. In fact, I think Supergirl works better as the most powerful woman in the DCU because she doesn't have to deal with all of the more down-to-earth themes (like empowerment and equality) that Wondy does.

    So she would be compared to hourman as opposed to superman? Depowering her would do one thing: OPen the 'fridge, and I know that's frowned upon around here....
    Making Wondy a mid-level hero again would autmatically make her the most high-profile hero in that range, which means that other heroes would be compared to her, just like we always compare street-level heroes to Batman and super-powerful heroes to Superman. This lets Wondy's strengths shine rather than casting her in the light of "kind of like Superman but not as good."

    And I still don't understand the equating importance with power thing. Spider-Man is a lot more important to the Marvel Universe than the Silver Surfer or Thor.

  6. #216
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    so you don't want her to be compaired to superman, but you do want her to be compared to mid-level hero's....you want her to be depowered so that she can be the best...am I getting that right? again, I don't buy that logic....

  7. #217
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrank
    so you don't want her to be compaired to superman, but you do want her to be compared to mid-level hero's....you want her to be depowered so that she can be the best...am I getting that right? again, I don't buy that logic....
    I think it's safe to say that that character is never going to be as powerful as Superman, so there's no sense in keeping her even in the same ballpark. By reducing her powers, you put her in a different league (no pun intended) where she can, in fact, be top of her class.

    So yes, by reducing her powers, you enable her to be the best.

    And reducing her powers can't hurt her total value as a character, or else Batman would be the most worthless character around.
    Last edited by glennsim; 02-15-2006 at 06:26 AM.

  8. #218
    Junior Member shyguy's Avatar
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    Took the words right out of my mouth, glennsim!

  9. #219
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    It´s not about being more powerful than Superman.
    Everyone already knows it´ll never happen.

    It´s about playing in the First League.
    She´s one of the very few (and by few I´m looking at the number of fingers in my hand) women who can play in that league.

    She may not be the strongest but she´s there contributing with her effort, not the biggest gun around but at least one of them.

  10. #220
    M78 Nebulan Ultraman Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj
    I'm not sure I agree. She has trouble selling decent numbers and I alway get the impression that DC only plug her as much as they do because they want one of the big 3 to be a woman. In reality though there isn't a big 3 - just a big 2.

    Dan

    In terms of title sales that's correct, though in terms of recognizability and marketability she's bigger than say The Flash, or Green Lantern. Though Wonder Woman's promotion as the 3rd of DC's "Big Three" didn't really happen until the editoral change in the Seventies. The character who pretty much occupied that space prior was Robin the Boy Wonder (though he and Batman were counted as a single unseperatable franchise at the time).
    Last edited by Ultraman Max; 02-14-2006 at 04:49 PM.

  11. #221
    From putty 2 orange Ontir's Avatar
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    I could do with a little less bondage, but the original version had so much more to it than that, or the gutted/totally mythological version Potter and Perez brought in.
    * *

    Civilly disobeying the law of gravity.

  12. #222
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    Again, mid-level heroes don't exactly get good treatment by DC. Aquaman? Red Tornado? Blue Beetle? Booster Gold? Starting to get the picture?

  13. #223
    Junior Member shyguy's Avatar
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    Again, mid-level heroes don't exactly get good treatment by DC. Aquaman? Red Tornado? Blue Beetle? Booster Gold? Starting to get the picture?
    And you think Wonder Woman is treated well by DC? Bwa-ha-ha!

    And even if mid-level heroes aren't currently treated well (and that seems to be changing with the new Blue Beetle and Booster Gold, not to mention Fire in Checkmate and Busiek's new Aquaman), then Wondy would be a fantastic place to start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia
    It´s not about being more powerful than Superman.
    Everyone already knows it´ll never happen.

    It´s about playing in the First League.
    She´s one of the very few (and by few I´m looking at the number of fingers in my hand) women who can play in that league.

    She may not be the strongest but she´s there contributing with her effort, not the biggest gun around but at least one of them.
    I don't really see what we gain by Wondy being a face in the crowd when a bunch of heroes need to move the moon or something. I'd much rather have a fun and vibrant character in her own right than someone whose worth is predicated on what types of crowd scenes she winds up in during the latest mega-crossover.

  14. #224
    El Enmascaro de Plata El Santo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ontir
    Hopefully, with the new run, she'll have the jet, and NOT be able to fly anymore. They increased her powers, but diluted the character greatly!
    I couldn't disagree more. She was more interesting in Rucka's worst work (say, the last few issues, where he's tying up loose ends at breakneck speed since Didio yanked him off the book) than I've ever seen her in previous comics, especially the old "invisible jet, spends most of her time being tied up and losing her powers" days.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyguy
    I don't really see what we gain by Wondy being a face in the crowd when a bunch of heroes need to move the moon or something. I'd much rather have a fun and vibrant character in her own right than someone whose worth is predicated on what types of crowd scenes she winds up in during the latest mega-crossover.
    So she can´t be a fun and vibrant character if she´s in the First League?

    She´s only fun and vibrant if she´s down in the back playing with Batgirl and Starfire?

    Sorry, but I disagree.
    She needs to be in the First League because she should be a force to be reckoned.

    Put her in the junior league where anyone from Orion to Cyborg can beat her up and you´re doing the characer a disservice.

    Taking your move the moon example, there´s only a few heroes who can effectivelly contribute.
    Personally, I find it conforting that WW is among them.

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