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    New Avengers #16 *Spoilers*

    It's another world-building issue, folks. If you're following the book for the plot, you can skip this one since all it does is introduce the Illuminati's next set of foes.

    Black Panther and...
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    Given Hickman's tendencies to go "big" and give...

    Given Hickman's tendencies to go "big" and give his characters enormous places in the world, I wonder if he's setting up a situation where the 616 Illuminati will eventually be representatives of all...
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    If it is Ebony-Maw style, I wonder if Strange...

    If it is Ebony-Maw style, I wonder if Strange will have some resistance to it now. Sort of like mental scar tissue where that...thing.. Maw put into his head was.

    I honestly can't see Black Swan...
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    Probably falls under known-knowns and...

    Probably falls under known-knowns and known-unknowns.

    We've seen the power of the Builders, the Mapmakers, and the Black Priests, which is scary. Now we have the Ebony and Ivory Kings, either...
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    I'm not sure I agree. I believe her when she...

    I'm not sure I agree. I believe her when she said she wasn't offering salvation to the alt-Reed and Stark. She's consistently, repetitively said that there's no salvation from incursions, just a...
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    It's a little hard to know what was revealed. ...

    It's a little hard to know what was revealed.

    Was it "The Black Swan can do and has done some incredibly heartless things, and seeing their alternate selves getting murdered shook Tony and Reed to...
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    There's no way he'd listen to anything they had...

    There's no way he'd listen to anything they had to say. Once he found out they were destroying worlds -- even though they really haven't yet -- he'd think "They're at it again. They're doing it...
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    I suppose this is the end of getting any...

    I suppose this is the end of getting any information out of Black Swan. At this point she's going to want to find her ticket out of there and let the rest of them rot.

    If the Avengers do come to...
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    Surprised, delighted.... I knew he would get his...

    Surprised, delighted.... I knew he would get his moment eventually. But at the same time I'm wondering if this means he's about to be taken out of the story. They're setting him up as the visible...
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    And incidentally, the recap thread is up. Enjoy.

    And incidentally, the recap thread is up. Enjoy.
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    New Avengers #15 *Spoilers*

    Not a great deal of plot advancement here; mostly world-building. Strange and Namor do not even appear.

    First the stuff we saw in the preview pages -- Tony, Reed, T'Challa, Beast, Black Bolt, and...
  12. Of course it isn't a good thing to do. But it's...

    Of course it isn't a good thing to do. But it's better than the alternative, which is why the Illuminati are in the mess that they're in.
  13. I think he's gambling that the Vishanti have some...

    I think he's gambling that the Vishanti have some preexisting claim on his soul that overrides all other claimants... but then he's got to be pretty desperate by now for some solution other than...
  14. Either that or this is Strange's last hurrah...

    Either that or this is Strange's last hurrah before they shuffle him off to death/hell/inconvenient coma
  15. Cap was right, but that's the rub, isn't it? ...

    Cap was right, but that's the rub, isn't it?

    Following the line of "necessary evil" is going to lead all of them to death and horror and shame. He knows it. They know it. But they're still...
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    For that matter, Marvel magic is something anyone...

    For that matter, Marvel magic is something anyone can learn, yet you never see anyone teaching it except for lone masters and a few disciples.

    It bothers me that people spend their whole lives in...
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    How did Doctor Strange let someone destroy the...

    How did Doctor Strange let someone destroy the Earth? Wasn't he there, trying to do something about it?
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    Well.... again, that's the book, isn't it? ...

    Well.... again, that's the book, isn't it?

    It's not so much that it's going to go wrong as that there's really no way to go "right." They're on a course that leads to ruin, and the wiser of...
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    They seem to be more technomagic than true magic....

    They seem to be more technomagic than true magic. Between that and the masks, I think they're more likely to be analogues of Doom, or the evil counterpart to the Council of Reeds.

    We saw an...
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    I'm sure Strange wouldn't do this if he didn't...

    I'm sure Strange wouldn't do this if he didn't have more to gain than he had to lose. He's not acting desperate or insane here, just determined, resolute, and perhaps just a bit resigned.

    I...
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    1. That was Bendis. I think he got Strange the...

    1. That was Bendis. I think he got Strange the man right, but he had no idea how to write Strange the sorcerer.
    2. If the Eye of Agamotto still works, there has to be an Agamotto to empower it.
    ...
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    I think Strange is gambling that the Vishanti...

    I think Strange is gambling that the Vishanti will have something to say about it if their Sorcerer Supreme bargains away his soul.

    Either they'll "stop payment" to the demonic realms or they'll...
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    Of course, now that we know that the sidera maris...

    Of course, now that we know that the sidera maris could have called the Mapmakers at any second, who then would have slaughtered everyone, then it gets a lot more scary.

    I think Hickman's doing a...
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    Those weren't the Mapmakers. Those were their...

    Those weren't the Mapmakers. Those were their advance scouts.
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    Reed meant it. He doesn't want Doom in on this. ...

    Reed meant it. He doesn't want Doom in on this. On the one hand, you never know what Doom might decide is best. He could well move Latveria somewhere safe and blow up Earth and all his enemies,...
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