http://forums.comicbookresources.com/ en Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:12:51 GMT vBulletin 60 http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/misc/rss.png http://forums.comicbookresources.com/ http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457803-Uncanny-Avengers-9-Review-Discussion-(SPOILERS)&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:10:26 GMT This is my second review, the first one being about Wolverine and the X-Men #26 which you may remember contained no words and only a picture of each 1)flaming dumpster 2)dog popping a squat 3)the Titanic sinking. This one took more effort but the other one will probably be more agreed with. The... This is my second review, the first one being about Wolverine and the X-Men #26 which you may remember contained no words and only a picture of each 1)flaming dumpster 2)dog popping a squat 3)the Titanic sinking. This one took more effort but the other one will probably be more agreed with.

The issue opens with Wolverine in a dream state being tortured by the demons of the deaths caused in Uncanny X-Force. The image of Warren as Apocalypse and the child Apocalypse (complete with bleeding bullet wound in head) stand giving him a lecture on family as they drag the lifeless form of Daken out of a puddle in a wintery wasteland. Wolverine stands motionless in silence before awaking in the Avengers medbay.

Wonderman says that Wanda put a hex around the ship that saved them and that Akaaba has been decimated. Wolverine says he's got fighting to do and it sparks a defensive comment by Wonderman about his pacifism. Wolverine tells him that he actually respects his pacifistic beliefs and is leaning that way more and more every day. Logan and Simon call the X-Mansion and tell Beast to throw NuAngel and Genesis in the Danger Room and seal the door (small cameo by Teen!Scott and Teen!Bobby, also Beast appears in ape form).

Havok and the Scarlet Witch sit on a holo conference call with Abigail Brand and Maria Hill/Daisy Johnson (sorry I can't tell) which pretty much says the corruption in their agencies is at unknown levels and the Avengers Unity squad will have to do this themselves.

Flash over to the Apocalypse twins and Eimin has returned from killing another celestial "the last seed pried from a space god's dead chest". Their big plan is revealed in 2 parts, a)They have built a tachyon dam to prevent time travel in or out of the era, stopping Kang from coming after them, who they do not seem to be too fond of. B) to use the collection of life seeds to resurrect 4 new horsemen and it's hinted at using the death seeds to make new Apocalypses (themselves? Genesis? NuAngel?).

We flash back to the Sudan were Captain America is talking to a holographic image of Immortus getting the exposition of the story. He says that in the future this point in time is where the 1 prime timeline usually divides into 7 prime timelines. Explains that his Egyptian days he was known as "Lord of the Seven Suns" and that Apocalypse himself, En Sabah Nur has a name which means "The Seven Lights". Immortus says that the timelines are no longer clear but are blurring from his future and that the Twins are seeking to destroy all 7 futures. He gives Captain America a Deus Ex Machina device he says is designed to destory the tachyon dam, and promises to bring an army with him when the dam falls to assault the twins. Hydra shows up to kill Captain America and Wonderman falls from the sky, quotes MLK Jr and everyone runs bored out of their mind (literally that's the story).

Back at the Avengers mansion Wolverine and Rogue are chatting in the kitchen. Rogue wants to go get more X-Men and says she doesn't trust the Avengers. Wolverine plays the middle ground, relating to Rogue but saying he trusts these people. Rogue asks him what actually happened to Angel but he dodges the question by telling her she's overdue for training.

----Insert the meat of the issue----
Over the course of the next 3-4 pages Remender does a much better job of fleshing out his ideas from UA #5 and presenting them, along with the dissenting opinions. The tail end of the argument is weighted more towards defending Alex and in no way is it left as there is only one right answer but I see much more where he's coming from. This is a loaded subject with the "mutant metaphor" meaning lots of different things to different people but I think that's what he's trying to hammer home here. Mutant does not equal black nor does it equal gay nor Muslim etc etc. It's everything and nothing at once, but in the specific context of the Marvel Universe, the only shared background mutants have is the delivery method for acquiring their powers. Leaving this issue, I don't say I necessarily agree with Remender's theory on mutants within the Marvel U, lacking their own culture. But this issue did a much better job of approaching the subject than #5 did. If only because it shows that it should be up for debate and not a universally accepted view. And he manages to keep different fanbases happy because he puts Wanda at one end, obviously pining for the X-Men Rogue at the other end, and sticks the others in the middle. Simon/Janet really reminded me of my ignorant self in high school not understanding why we couldn't just ignore the differences all together if it would make things happier. (College me learned that pride in where you come from is half of what it means to identify as a minority and while prejudice is bad, forgetting who you are is just as bad).

It's hard to really go into the debate they have without transcribing it, and I don't want to do that but you have a scale of what side they take.

Rogue----Sunfire----Wonderman/Wasp----Scarlet Witch

Rogue takes the positions these boards and many other outlets had of Alex was preaching assimliation. "Garbage, I love him to death, but Alex went in public and told mutants to hide, to be ashamed of who they are." and "He's asking people to forget their history--to assimilate!"

Sunfire only has one line "But your thinking is far more evolved? Is that right, Simon? You don't see me as a mutant?" and leaves it at that

Simon and Janet take the position of, we see you as people and I don't understand why humans hate you.

Wanda on the other hand says "People hear mutant and the first thing they remember is my father destorying NY" etc etc and "Mutants come from all races, all religions and all sexual orientations. Having powers born into us is the only thing we inherently share"

----------

The issue ends with a meeting being called by Havok and Captain America where they have found out about the dead child Apocalypse. Accusations are leveled at Wolverine, Steve says that he trusted him and made him an Avenger and he's damaged the reputation of the team. Rogue jumps to his defense and threatens to punch Cap in his apple pie face. Janet says that Logan should be in jail.

Thor jumps to his defense and says that is as much to blame as anyone because of Jarnborn. He also states that sometimes death is necessary to save the lives of innocents. In the next panel, masterfully done, Acuna draws 3 groups, Wolverine, Sunfire, Rogue, Thor who are opposite of Captain America, Wasp, Wonderman and the Scarlet Witch, with Havok at diagonal from both obviously unsure of where he stands. In this panel Rogue drops an epic "The ONE Avenger who makes any sense" in reference to Thor.

Wolverine exasperated at the attacks on his character actually makes a snarky remark about just being a killer. Havok starts to say that they can't split, this is how the Twins divide and conquer the team, preaching that they have to stay together. The Wolverine/Rogue/Sunfire/Thor group makes for the door with Thor in front while Wolverine takes a jab at who's really the leader of the team.

The last page cuts back to the resurrected 4 horsemen in a cliffhanger, showing Grim Reaper, Banshee, Daken and Sentry standing left to right.

In short, I have enjoyed this comic to a point since it started but I think this was the most enjoyable issue. #7 and #8 were good but felt like an action movie with little to no character substance. While #5 had it in spades and most of it good, it was overshadowed by the speech. This issue was highly entertaining. It showed all the different relationships and lines in the sand. While the speech was brought back up it was presented in a much more well thought out and educated light, and differing opinions were given their soap boxes. As much as Wolverine gets teased on these boards about being an Avenger, it really meant a lot to see him bonding with Rogue and taking her side on things instead of just being "an existing Avenger who already happens to be a mutant". Especially with the divide there at the end and him leading the mutant faction + Thor to take care of business while Havok is left wondering wtf happened standing next to the Avengers.

I'm sorry the summary portion ran long but it just all seemed so important. Most everything in the issue carried weight, from Logan's guilt in the beginning, through the exposition, the debate. Loved it.

Preparing to be summarily kicked out of X-Boards for not hating this book ]]> X-Books AgentFelix http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457803-Uncanny-Avengers-9-Review-Discussion-(SPOILERS) http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457789-Cable-and-X-Force-10-review-and-spoilers&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:25:57 GMT Short version: Best issue yet. By light years.

We open with a short Hope scene, who's in search of - you guessed it, Blaquesmith. Incidentally, the little Askani techno-wizard has found a rather unexpected way to support himself financially in the present. I won't spoil it, but Hopeless's 'all you can drink slushies' clue is relevant. It turns out Hope did not do a runner on a whim, and was in fact responding to an email from him. (Nice follow-up on their brief encounter from X-Sanction, by the way.)

X-Force turns out to have regrouped at Forge's trailer on the rez, where we get some witty banter from the team as Cable, inside, has something of a minor meltdown over the whole situation. Domino has a come-to-Jesus moment with him on the virtues of teamwork and delegation, and it appears to sink in.

Meanwhile, on the Quinjet, Alex is angsting over his family of criminal masterminds while Rogue tries to give him an out on the whole 'hunting down your nephew' thing. The Quinjet arrives, and we see the scenes from the preview, in which X-Force is apparently badly overmatched.

Meanwhile, back at Blaquesmith's lair, we discover that he's been in contact with Cable and was disgusted to hear that the Askani'son wanted to retire. He does however tell Hope that he's well-aware of who's messing with Nathan's brain.

Because it's him doing it. Then he shoots her with a strange gun and she vanishes in a flash of light.

Back to X-Force and the UA. The latter are cocky, justifiably so (although damn, but Rogue is arrogant beyond belief here). Those of you who saw both previews might have noticed that we didn't see Nathan fighting. That would be because the people who made the previews didn't want to spoil the best moment of the series to date.

Namely, Nathan (with brain hemorrhaging "worse than before" according to Nemesis), hauling himself back to his feet and simultaneously knocking out every single member of the Unity Team with his telepathy while snarling about how he doesn't have time for this. And then blowing up the quinjet with his new eye cannon. Yes, really.

Unfortunately, as he's the last one to leave, the brain hemorrhage catches up with him. He passes out. Cap and Alex come to and opt not to pursue X-Force because "we got what we came for". End issue.

I don't even know what to say about this issue. I'm still grinning like an idiot. There is nothing I did not like (a whole hell of a lot) here. When Hopeless decides that it's time to step it up a notch, he knocks it right out of the park.

A couple of specific things: Domino continues to be possibly the best-written character in the book, and we have an actual team dynamic starting to evolve here. It's good to see Nathan being something other than stone-faced and forbidding, and his characterization is so right, so true to past, similar moments of doubt he's had that it makes it abundantly clear that Hopeless has probably done his required reading multiple times (Bendis, take note please - this is how you manage to have consistent characterization and your own story at the same time). I cannot wait to see just what the hell Blaquesmith is up to, and I'm delighted to see him revert to the evil little troll he used to be.

Loved it. I really cannot say that enough. I also look forward to the slapstick comedy that will be the UA attempting to keep Nathan Dayspring Summers in custody, because really, you just know that's going to go terribly.

I've been following this series and liking it all the way along despite its slow start and its flaws, but I can honestly say that this is probably the best single issue of an X-book I've read since Gillen's Consequences. ]]> X-Books antiochene http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457789-Cable-and-X-Force-10-review-and-spoilers http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457783-Effects-of-Age-of-Ultron-on-X-Men-canon&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:01:14 GMT So now that we can talk about this issue what does this mean for x-men canon? Can we forget that bad stories Like the first x-men ever happen. Does this give us the reason why wolverine is every where ay once. Does this change x-men canon? So now that we can talk about this issue what does this mean for x-men canon? Can we forget that bad stories Like the first x-men ever happen. Does this give us the reason why wolverine is every where ay once. Does this change x-men canon? ]]> X-Books GambitXRemy http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457783-Effects-of-Age-of-Ultron-on-X-Men-canon http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457777-has-cyclops-(and-similar-characters)-been-badly-written-for-ages&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:30:17 GMT i was thinking about certain stuff recently, about how cyclops handled his own against wolverine in schism, or how he took out those thugs in jail-these are great feats of close combat, not just "very good fighter". definitely not the cyclops from the '70s and '80s most of us remember. then i remember many "stuck up tight-**s control freak" characters and how they are portrayed.

this is wrong, imho.

i once had the priviliedge of training with Gabriel Goulart(multiple times world champion on brazilian jiujitsu and no-gi grappling) for 2 weeks. i also frequently train with two of the best mma fighters of my country. you know what the difference is between lame little me and close combat beasts like, say, Goulart?

what i saw is, Gabriel woke up every day early in the morning to run 5 miles... then before lunch he lifted weights. then 3 hours after lunch he practiced his technique at a frantic pace with the rest of us. then at 9 o'clock , night, he practiced AGAIN, in a second class. he used the in-between time to rest, nothing else he actualy did. when he was about to leave and return to his home, the gym went for a pizza. all the athletes were DEAD SERIOUS and never touched anything interesting other than what they were supposed to eat according to their well-organized nutrition plan. Gabriel told us one last advice before he left: "whenever you train, dont say 'oh come on, i'll hold on till the time is up and finish the training'. instead, train HUNGRY FOR MORE." then i realised why he had even made ME spar with him once.

remember what cyclops told hope during training? "AGAIN!"

being a "stuck-up tight**s" is not about being lame and uninteresting. it is about spending every single minute of all your life(no vacations) asking yourself "how can i be more efficient in my occupation?" superheroes that have this personality like oldcyclops, some depictions of Cap, etc. should have LIGHT YEARS of training and technique efficiency above the rest, compared to chaotic "supposedly badass" individuals that realisticaly dont train so frequently, methodicaly, scientificaly perfect.

right now,chaotic character deadpool(per se) can probably best disciplined character cannonball in a close combat fight of the two of them depowered-that is INSANE. logicaly , disciplined characters should always excel at their chosen occupation (in superheroes' case, combat). they should be more muscular(lift weights more often), faster (ridiculous agility training to the breaking point), have better technique (endless drilling/sparring with full contact, saving their bodies fromt rainign exhaustion by using 'roids). ]]> X-Books Warspite http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457777-has-cyclops-(and-similar-characters)-been-badly-written-for-ages http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457715-Why-has-Cyclops-never-been-able-to-support-multiple-solo-ongoings-like-Wolverine&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:22:59 GMT Can you suggest reasons why Scott only seems to work as part of an ensemble cast whereas Wolverine is a bigger sales draw? Can you suggest reasons why Scott only seems to work as part of an ensemble cast whereas Wolverine is a bigger sales draw? ]]> X-Books Home made ectoplasm http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457715-Why-has-Cyclops-never-been-able-to-support-multiple-solo-ongoings-like-Wolverine http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457714-If-you-could-make-a-new-X-team-out-of-forgoten-unpopular-mutants-who-would-you-pick&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:10:38 GMT If you had to make an X team out of Mutants that are unpopular not well known who would you choose to be on your team & what would you call the team? and what would be their purpose? ]]> X-Books DATNIGG http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457714-If-you-could-make-a-new-X-team-out-of-forgoten-unpopular-mutants-who-would-you-pick http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457710-PREVIEW-Savage-Wolverine-7&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:58:03 GMT • Wolverine slices!
• Elektra dices!
• What more could you want in a comic?


Full article here. ]]> X-Books CBR News http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457710-PREVIEW-Savage-Wolverine-7 http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457709-X-POSITION-Wells-Takes-On-quot-Savage-Wolverine-quot&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:58:02 GMT Current "Savage Wolverine" writer Zeb Wells joins X-Position to take on all questions about Wolverine, Elektra, Spider-Man and working for the Kingpin of Crime. Plus, exclusive art!


Full article here. ]]> X-Books CBR News http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457709-X-POSITION-Wells-Takes-On-quot-Savage-Wolverine-quot http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457613-Does-Iceman-Age-Sweat-Heal&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 01:15:59 GMT Random Iceman questions.

1) Does he age/has he stopped aging? Why?
2) Does he sweat/get hot/can't cool himself? Why?
3) Does he heal somehow using his ice? ]]> X-Books Serenity http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457613-Does-Iceman-Age-Sweat-Heal http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457608-How-Should-Wolverine-Die&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:22:21 GMT So rumours are abound about Wolverine's inevitable demise.

If Wolverine does bite the dust and go back to hell, how do you think he should die? ]]> X-Books Juggernaut Punch http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457608-How-Should-Wolverine-Die http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457592-Hopeless-Prophesies-the-Future-of-quot-Cable-amp-X-Force-quot&goto=newpost Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:05:08 GMT Full article here. ]]> X-Books CBR News http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457592-Hopeless-Prophesies-the-Future-of-quot-Cable-amp-X-Force-quot http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457571-PREVIEW-Cable-and-X-Force-10&goto=newpost Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:29:04 GMT Guest starring the Uncanny Avengers!
Hope goes on the run, determined to help Cable whether he wants it or not. . . but the Uncanny Avengers have been keeping tabs on Hope and they're not about to let her get tangled up with Cable's band of fugitives!


Full preview here. ]]> X-Books CBR News http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457571-PREVIEW-Cable-and-X-Force-10 http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457542-What-can-Marvel-do-to-Salvage-Cyclops-reputation-and-try-to-honor-Xavier-s-name&goto=newpost Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:26:13 GMT WHETHER OR NOT you think he was right in his recent series of actions in the Marvel Unvierse, you cannot ignore the fact that Cyclops reputation in the Marvel universe is a fickle one amongst his peers. Even if it was a series of actions that he knew and that the writers knew would make him a... WHETHER OR NOT you think he was right in his recent series of actions in the Marvel Unvierse, you cannot ignore the fact that Cyclops reputation in the Marvel universe is a fickle one amongst his peers.

Even if it was a series of actions that he knew and that the writers knew would make him a bad guy amognst his peers. It still took a tumble.

So now I ask you, since most of you asked me already, what do you all think Marvel should try to do to salvage Cyclops reputation and maybe honor his fallen father ? ]]> X-Books CMBMOOL http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457542-What-can-Marvel-do-to-Salvage-Cyclops-reputation-and-try-to-honor-Xavier-s-name http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457518-Cable-and-the-X-Force-10-Asskicking-Preview&goto=newpost Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:26:07 GMT Image: http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ul/CABLEXF2012010015-col-e8975.jpg Image: http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ul/CABLEXF2012010016-col-0731f.jpg Image: http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/ul/CABLEXF2012010017-col-c2d1c.jpg

]]> X-Books AntiPatriot http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457518-Cable-and-the-X-Force-10-Asskicking-Preview http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457515-Should-we-start-referring-to-quot-Xavier-s-dream-quot-as-Logan-s-dream-since-he-had-it-first&goto=newpost Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:18:24 GMT As per thread title As per thread title ]]> X-Books Home made ectoplasm http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?457515-Should-we-start-referring-to-quot-Xavier-s-dream-quot-as-Logan-s-dream-since-he-had-it-first