So I bought "I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League"

[Indefatigable]

Are all the Griffen/DeMatteis stories this good O_o?

And I must say, it was sorta sad to see Ralph, Sue, Booster, Beetle and Max Lord in such a light hearted story considering the past year or so...

[DDM]

Yes, all of the Giffen/Dematteis stuff is similar to 1987's Justice League renamed Justice League International then renamed again Justice League America when Justice League Europe debuted. Whew!

The core Justice League International members are Martian Manhunter, Batman, Guy Gardner, Fire (formerly Green Flame), Ice (formerly Ice Maiden), Blue Beetle II, Booster Gold, Captain Atom, Dr. Fate...

Superman, Hal Jordan, Wonder Woman, Hawkman & Hawkwoman all either appear as guest stars or cameos throughout. It's funny to read Hawkman complain about the new Justice League is a joke & he can't believe he's there.

Superman helped the Justice League fight the Manhunters (along with Firestorm & Green Lantern Hal Jordan)

The Huntress also joins the Justice League, although she isn't aware Max helped her join the League for a few issues.

Power Girl joins Justice League Europe...

It's all good.

[Unbreakable]

Are all the Griffen/DeMatteis stories this good O_o?



No, they are better. If you liked the newer minis, then you should check out the 80's and early 90's stuff, it's better.

[shyguy]

Yeah, it's pretty much all that good. Some of it is better than others, and you don't aways get gorgeous Kevin Maguire art (although Adam Hughes did Justice Leage America for a while), but on the whole, Giffen's body of Justice League work is superb and for my money, miles ahead of anything anybody's ever done with the so-called "big 7."

[Unbreakable]

but on the whole, Giffen's body of Justice League work is superb and for my money, miles ahead of anything anybody's ever done with the so-called "big 7."

This is the truth.

[DDM]

Giffen & DeMatteis also give J'onn his oreo cookie addiction...

The Global Guardians become rivals for Justice League International when they lose their funding, but the Queen Bee picks them up for her services.

[LordEd1976]

Giffen & DeMatteis also give J'onn his oreo cookie addiction...



i liked that touch. J'onn needs something humorous like that. I keep hoping someone would use that idea in an episode of JLU.

[KingEli]

DC need to make a new JLI,for real.

There were THE World's greatest (Non-Mutant) Super Team! :D

[Kevinroc]

DC need to make a new JLI,for real.

There were THE World's greatest (Non-Mutant) Super Team! :D

Considering how many JLI members have been killed off recently, it wouldn't be the same.

[DDM]

Considering how many JLI members have been killed off recently, it wouldn't be the same.

The Justice League of America will always be around.

[Kevinroc]

The Justice League of America will always be around.

The Justice League will exist in one form or another but the JLI chapter is most definitely closed in terms of further adventures and getting back together.

[DDM]

The Justice League will exist in one form or another but the JLI chapter is most definitely closed in terms of further adventures and getting back together.

I wouldn't say it's closed. Giffen & Dematteis can always return to the concept at some point before they die.

[cactusmaac]

i liked that touch. J'onn needs something humorous like that. I keep hoping someone would use that idea in an episode of JLU.

They did in Comfort and Joy from the first season.

[DDM]

Kevin Maquire is in good company with Ty Templeton, Mike McKone, & Adam Hughes in the Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League. Bart Sears is the artist for all of Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League Europe.

[Kevinroc]

I wouldn't say it's closed. Giffen & Dematteis can always return to the concept at some point before they die.

Blue Beetle (Ted): Pushing up daises.
Max Lord: Retconned into always being a supervillain and is now pushing up daises.
Sue Dibny: Dead.
Rocket Red: Deceased.

Yeah... It wouldn't be the same...

Of course this is comics, but in order to get characters like Max back, it would require completely retconning Infinite Crisis...

[Babylon23]

Gotta agree with everybody here. The old Giffen/Dematteis JLI stuff is gold!
As much as I loved the new series, I think a major part of what was missing was a straight man. The old JLI worked best when Booster, Beetle and co. had straight men like J'onn and Batman to play off.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

these guys can write ANY character wonderfully funnily.
we wouldn't get the same characters, but we could get the same feeling, albeit with new ones added to the mix.

imagine what they would do to oracle or zan and jayna.,,,,

rio.

[Zero Hunter]

Yeah Justice League 1-60 or so and Justice League Europe 1-36 should be in everyones collection.
The make up of both teams is what made them so good. With Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Martian Manhunter, Batman, Guy Gardner, Mister Miricle, Fire, Ice, Black Canary, and Max Lord over in JLI. And Captain Atom, Flash, Metamorpho, Power Girl, Crimson Fox, Rocket Red, Blue Jay, Silver Soceress, Elonganted Man, and Sue Dibney over in JLE. Honetsly I think I actully like JLE a little more looking back on everything.

Also if you liked the new JLI mini you should check out the Defenders mini that the same crew is currently doing for Marvel. Giffen and crews take on Hulk, Doc Strange, Namor, and the Silver Surfer are every bit as good as the JLI stuff.

[Apathy Boy]

Blue Beetle (Ted): Pushing up daises.
Max Lord: Retconned into always being a supervillain and is now pushing up daises.
Sue Dibny: Dead.
Rocket Red: Deceased.

Yeah... It wouldn't be the same...

Of course this is comics, but in order to get characters like Max back, it would require completely retconning Infinite Crisis...Eh, honestly, it wouldn't be that hard. In the mid-'90s, you probably would've thought the Satellite Era League was gone forever (Barry Allen dead, Hawkman in limbo, Oliver Queen dead, Hal Jordan evil - and those characters were much more important to the Satellite League than Rocket Red and Sue ever were to the JLI). Now, it's looks like the Satellite League will be back in a major way.

But this is besides the point, anyway. Giffen and Dematties have said they've pretty much run out of stories for the characters after working on them for 100+ issues. And after reading the two mini-series, I believe them.

(I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE was a wonderful way to end the series, and was a huge improvement over FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE. But it still fell a little short of capturing the spirit of the initial series.)

[Kevinroc]

Eh, honestly, it wouldn't be that hard. In the mid-'90s, you probably would've thought the Satellite Era League was gone forever (Barry Allen dead, Hawkman in limbo, Oliver Queen dead, Hal Jordan evil - and those characters were much more important to the Satellite League than Rocket Red and Sue ever were to the JLI). Now, it's looks like the Satellite League will be back in a major way.

But this is besides the point, anyway. Giffen and Dematties have said they've pretty much run out of stories for the characters after working on them for 100+ issues. And after reading the two mini-series, I believe them.

(I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE was a wonderful way to end the series, and was a huge improvement over FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE. But it still fell a little short of capturing the spirit of the initial series.)

As it stands, DC would have to make HUGE retcons to Infinite Crisis in order to bring back Max Lord. Max was an instrumental part of the JLI.

And Ted? Well, DC seems to have this obsession that his death matters (while other deaths like Jason Todd's mean nothing).

But again, circumstances can easily change. I just don't expect DC to start retconning Infinite Crisis to hell and back even when the current editorial leaves just so Max can come back.

[Ian J.N.]

Does anyone think the JLI will get new life in the upcoming Checkmate series? The OMAC special has Fire and a new Rocket Red on the cover, and I can easily picture Booster and Martian Manhunter as being part of the metahuman lineup on the team (which is going to be an equal ratio of metahumans to humans). It's not a humorous series, but it'd be cool to see the characters in action.

[o1pickleboy]

Blue Beetle (Ted): Pushing up daises.
Max Lord: Retconned into always being a supervillain and is now pushing up daises.
Sue Dibny: Dead.
Rocket Red: Deceased.

Yeah... It wouldn't be the same...

Of course this is comics, but in order to get characters like Max back, it would require completely retconning Infinite Crisis...


They can all ways to flashbacks. Since most of them have done nada for years. they could very well of had adventures we don't know about.

[Agentum]

Yes, all of the Giffen/Dematteis stuff is similar to 1987's Justice League renamed Justice League International then renamed again Justice League America when Justice League Europe debuted. Whew!


And JLE become JLI again after some 50 issues or something.

I guess this was goodbye to the JLI era, to bad but times goes on.

[Kevinroc]

They can all ways to flashbacks. Since most of them have done nada for years. they could very well of had adventures we don't know about.

It would still take a massive amount of retcons to deal with Max Lord, who was now "keeping the Justice League ineffictive".

[Agentum]

It would still take a massive amount of retcons to deal with Max Lord, who was now "keeping the Justice League ineffictive".
Not all the time what i remember.

[Apathy Boy]

It would still take a massive amount of retcons to deal with Max Lord, who was now "keeping the Justice League ineffictive".Well, you have to keep in mind that we only have Evil Max's word that he was keeping the JLI ineffective the entire time.

Given that the JLI was actually a fairly effective team, it's safe to assume Evil Max was lying, or deluded.

[Agentum]

Well, you have to keep in mind that we only have Evil Max's word that he was keeping the JLI ineffective the entire time.

Given that the JLI was actually a fairly effective team, it's safe to assume Evil Max was lying, or deluded.
Yes it all sounds like a construction made after the series, if you read the series he is not always trying to sabotage JLI.

He competed with other other superherogroups etc to be more effective than them.

[Guts/Batman]

Well, you have to keep in mind that we only have Evil Max's word that he was keeping the JLI ineffective the entire time.

Given that the JLI was actually a fairly effective team, it's safe to assume Evil Max was lying, or deluded.

Of course it would seem that way.

Everything has been retroactively added to the timeline.

But I do take Max at his word.

Plus, wasn't he a cyborg in JLI?

[Agentum]

Yes, but i don't think that make you evil.

[Guts/Batman]

Yes, but i don't think that make you evil.

But Max wasn't a Cyborg in OMAC Project...so that makes it something you need to ignore to put the JLI back together along with the effeciency thing.

I agree with Kev. You can't pick and choose what continuity to ignore and not ignore.

You "either go all the way or f---in forget it."

He's either "evil non-Cyborg" Max Lord or he's "non-evil cyborg" Max Lord. You don't get it both ways.

[Agentum]

But Max wasn't a Cyborg in OMAC Project...so that makes it something you need to ignore to put the JLI back together along with the effeciency thing.


OK, i did not know that, why change that, it it's not wery important but would be easy to use and will not change the storyline.

But JLI is no more now, if it comes back it will be with other members i guess, not many of the old ones will be alive.

[Guts/Batman]

OK, i did not know that, why change that, it it's not wery important but would be easy to use and will not change the storyline.

From the OMAC Project POV, it is important because Diana snapping Max's neck really wouldn't do anything if he was a cyborg...

[Agentum]

Well a cyborg dont means he is all a robot, but if they wanted blood and horrible death they wanted a normal human.
Maybe it was his evil twinbrother, thats a good storyline.........:-D

[Guts/Batman]

Well a cyborg dont means he is all a robot, but if they wanted blood and horrible death they wanted a normal human.
Maybe it was his evil twinbrother, thats a good storyline.........:-D

We've thought of that already...

Max had to be a human for that story to work.

But it simply doesn't work. DC has just flat ignored JLI continuity. Hell, they even admitted it...

[TCJohnson]

It might take a couple of years but we will see members of the JLI back together again.

[titanfan]

Comics are always cyclical. Just like today's "hot" comic book creators grew up in the days of the Satellite era, tomorrow's "hot comic" creators will have grown up in the JLI days and will hopefully do something cool with the Superbuddies.

[stealthwise]

I just like to read the JLI stuff and pretend that most of the current DCU events haven't actually happened. ICBINTJL was incredibly entertaining, heartbreaking (the issue with Ice) and satisfying.

[Guts/Batman]

It might take a couple of years but we will see members of the JLI back together again.

Agreed here...

[Agentum]

Wold not be the same if it is with some other members, not for me anyway.
I don't like that type reboots with the same name as an old comic but with only that in comon with it.