Rap has jumped the shark

[Robin3]

I think rap has hit it's peak. At this point they have "artists" that just specialize in the number of cuss words they can fit into a song. Take a look at these censored lyrics from Lil' Jon.


Lil' Jon Lyrics

Don't XXXX Wit Me Lyrics




Ladies and XXXX gentlemen (Whassup)
It's the kings of XXXX crunk (You know it)
Me, your boy Lil Jon, Lil Bo, Big Sam
On the XXXX track, Rick Rubin (Yeah)
I don't think y'all ready for this XXXX (y'all ain't ready XXXX )
Nothin but some real gangsta XXXX (gangsta XXXX )
For them XXXX and XXXX out there (Yeah)
Now I'm havin a hard XXXX life right now (a hard life)
And I'm gunna give y'all some of my XXXX pain

[Hook - 2X]
Why you XXXX wit me?
Stop XXXX wit me!
Don't be XXXX wit me!
Stop XXXX wit me!

[Interlude 1]
You know, it seems like no matter, no matter how hard I XXXX try
I can't do the right XXXX XXXX
Like I be tryin and XXXX and XXXX always be turning out XXXX up
Like my XXXX always on my XXXX back talkin bout I need to get a XXXX job
Talking bout how I need to pay my XXXX child support and XXXX
XXXX I'm out here tryin to do all that XXXX and that XXXX don't go my XXXX way
Sometimes you need to get the XXXX up off my back
And let me learn how to get this XXXX right on
I want you to stop XXXX wit me
Why don't you stop XXXX wit me

[Hook]

[Verse One]
XXXX I'm tryin to get a job, but it just don't work
(XXXX I'm tryin to get a job, but that shit don't work)
Soon as I walk through the door, on they face is a smirk
(Soon as I walk through the door, on they face is a smirk)
Can't hire no XXXX like me in that XXXX
(Can't hire no XXXX like me in that XXXX )
Tattoos, gold teeth, XXXX dreads and XXXX
(Tattoos, gold teeth, XXXX dreads and XXXX )
Man, XXXX these XXXX , I'll go back to sellin' dope
(Man, XXXX these XXXX , I'll go back to sellin' dope)
Now my baby mama callin bout that child support
(Now my baby mama callin bout that child support)
XXXX back the XXXX up, and let me smoke my weed
(XXXX back the XXXX up, let me smoke my weed)
XXXX you XXXX , stop screamin at me
(XXXX you XXXX , stop XXXX at me)

Oh, and by the way, I'm a [i]brother. I still don't think this junk represents me or my life 1 bit. It's like marketing executives decided to hone in on the most sensational sob-story fantasies possible, pack a bunch of dirty words in, hire some pretty models for a video, and oh, by the way, they need a play something that sounds like an instrument to call it music, so they splice in songs from the 70s or 80s, since noone can play instruments anymore.

I was talking about this at a barbershop (barbershops serve as Black community centers) and the consensus was that no real live black person over 25 can relate to it as reality. It's all fantasy now. A complete smokescreen separated from reality by at least one degree of separation. And while some things that happen in rap songs happen in real life, if your whole life were a rap album, you wouldn't last very long.

Songs don't have to be about reality, but I think that now that it's gotten to the point that subject of the songs are the cuss words, rather than them being simply thrown in, a lot of the ideas are gone. If so much as one new stevie wonder were to appear, the industry would fall like a deck of cards.

Who is the next Stevie Wonder? Who shall be our messiah?

[Sanagi]

The thing that amazes me about a lot of rap is how lame the rhythm is. If there's one thing that needs to be good about rap, it's the rhythm.

[Tadhg]

That's like saying stand up comedy has jumped the shark and using Carrot Top as an example.

[monkeysweat]

Turn off your radio.

[Shellhead]

I think that all genres of music are at a low point right now. Rock has been worthless since alternative music fell off the charts in the mid-90's. Metal today is just lame, monotone chanting over generic power chords. Country music today is basically bland pop music with a twang. Jazz and blues haven't had much to brag about for decades. I have to go out to the edges to find new music that I like, on college radio, in indie movies, and so help me, car commercials sometimes have great new songs.

[Kaiju]

A lot of rap on the radio is no different than the throwaway stuff in other genres. Lil Jon isn't one of my favorites but he started working in a local speciality genre and he blew up. It's not everyone's cup of tea but it's his thing. BTW Lil Jon is actually a fairly decent producer and is ok in small doses.

Hip hop has had a pretty good year Kanye West, Common, Little Brother, Paul Wall, MF Doom and others have all delivered solid records.

[TinMan]

I think that all genres of music are at a low point right now. Rock has been worthless since alternative music fell off the charts in the mid-90's. Metal today is just lame, monotone chanting over generic power chords. Country music today is basically bland pop music with a twang. Jazz and blues haven't had much to brag about for decades. I have to go out to the edges to find new music that I like, on college radio, in indie movies, and so help me, car commercials sometimes have great new songs.

I just have to ask: what the hell kinda metal are you listening to? If you're listening to the horseshit they play on MTV or the radio you're missing out, cause I've come across a lot of badass metal the last year and a half.

[Shellhead]

I just have to ask: what the hell kinda metal are you listening to? If you're listening to the horseshit they play on MTV or the radio you're missing out, cause I've come across a lot of badass metal the last year and a half.

Yeah, pretty much the only metal I hear these days is the mainstream crap. Of course, I may just be too old to really enjoy metal anymore. The last time I went to a heavy metal concert was back when Deep Purple re-united to do Perfect Strangers, about 20 years ago.

[Johnny_Storm]

The majority of top 40 rap music is made for clubs, parties, and to boost an artist ego. I have found that you have to actually search and experiment somewhat to find artist that make music that appeal to your life. You can only listen so much about who has the badest crew or how fat their bank account is.

[YoungG03]

First of all you used Lil John. he makes fight hype music...../Cmo9n now and I know NWA was no Kid N Play back in the day. Also People like to use that anger from rap from a bad day or something....that whole robbig banks and shit is for the young folks but some poeple think and chuckle at the chances....

[Robin3]

Shellhead may have a point. It make me wonder,

Why do we, as a nation, accept so much crap in the form of music?

I think the rise in mix CDs is because the signal-to-noise ration of a lot of artists is so bad. Noone wants to buy 12 CDs to get 1 CD of music. Of course the RIAA hates this, but they kind of brought it on themselves.

[Sanagi]

Why do we, as a nation, accept so much crap in the form of music?
Time to once again state Sanagi's principle of musical ignorance: To most people, music is just pleasant noise. Such people will shun interesting music because it's too hard to understand.

[Leslie Lee III]

You think Little Jon is a rapper? Hah. He's just a producer and puts a little hype over songs. If you're using him to back up on argument about rap music...I think you'd be better of talking about genres you were more familiar with and like.

Nice to see the weekly, "Why hip hop sucks" thread is still around.

[Lubichev]

The last great rap album was Erik B. and Rakim's Paid in Full.

Sure there have been some good ones since but nothing comes close to Paid.

[TitoJones]

The last great rap album was Erik B. and Rakim's Paid in Full.

Sure there have been some good ones since but nothing comes close to Paid.

So you've only listen to like 4 albums since then?

[xfrancax]

Rap hasn't jumped the shark, you're just listening to shit rap. Just listen to Immortal Technique. Best rap I've ever heard.

[TinMan]

Yeah, pretty much the only metal I hear these days is the mainstream crap. Of course, I may just be too old to really enjoy metal anymore. The last time I went to a heavy metal concert was back when Deep Purple re-united to do Perfect Strangers, about 20 years ago.

Well that would make sense then. :p

If you go underground you'll find a lot of good metal, most of it is even progressing back to the days of thrash and guitar solo's. Only problem there may be for you is the "screaming" vocals, most metal bands are doing some form of screaming now-a-days.

My recommendations:

Shadows Fall
Trivium
Killswitch Engage
Mastadon
Devil Driver

[Shellhead]

Well that would make sense then. :p

If you go underground you'll find a lot of good metal, most of it is even progressing back to the days of thrash and guitar solo's. Only problem there may be for you is the "screaming" vocals, most metal bands are doing some form of screaming now-a-days.

My recommendations:

Shadows Fall
Trivium
Killswitch Engage
Mastadon
Devil Driver

I'll look into those. It isn't that I gave up on metal 20 years ago, just that my tastes expanded to include some rap, some jazz, and lots of indie rock. In the 90's, I liked Metallica and Rage Against the Machine, I just didn't see them live. But it seems like too many bands since then have either tried to imitate Metallica's monotone vocals or the rap-metal of Rage Against the Machine.

[TinMan]

I'll look into those. It isn't that I gave up on metal 20 years ago, just that my tastes expanded to include some rap, some jazz, and lots of indie rock. In the 90's, I liked Metallica and Rage Against the Machine, I just didn't see them live. But it seems like too many bands since then have either tried to imitate Metallica's monotone vocals or the rap-metal of Rage Against the Machine.

Well I would definitely suggest Killswitch and Trivium to you then, the vocalists in those bands can scream like a mother f%$#@ but can also sing extremely well. If you haven't already, scope out Stone Sour too, great stuff there.

[Lubichev]

So you've only listen to like 4 albums since then?
6, thanks.

[Turd_Ferguson]

just to let you in on a poorly kept secret, the phrase "jump the shark" jumped the shark a loooong time ago.

Long before Bendis used it even.

[Lubichev]

"Jump the shark" is as silly as the term "jobber aura."

[Turd_Ferguson]

About eight years ago the phrase was intelligent and creative. Then everyone started using it. Then everyone started misusing it to the point that it didn't make sense anymore. That's what usually kills a slang word.

[samuraizero]

About eight years ago the phrase was intelligent and creative. Then everyone started using it. Then everyone started misusing it to the point that it didn't make sense anymore. That's what usually kills a slang word.
no its used in the wrong sense..
let me exlplain the term came form happy days when the fonz jumped over a shark and the term "jumped the shark2 was used as the show just got silly
but at the same time it was getting shit so some peopel satrted thinkin that it ment when the show got shit but really it means when an show leave sthe normal boundaries of reality

[Turd_Ferguson]

no its used in the wrong sense..
let me exlplain the term came form happy days when the fonz jumped over a shark and the term "jumped the shark2 was used as the show just got silly
but at the same time it was getting shit so some peopel satrted thinkin that it ment when the show got shit but really it means when an show leave sthe normal boundaries of reality

I've seen two schools of thought on this, one completely agrees with you.

The other school is people that are completely stupid, and believe that the shark jumping episode was awesome, and argue that "jump the shark" is supposed to mean that the show/genre/movie franchise/sports team has become so awesome that there is no way that the entertainment piece could ever be this good again.

I tend to prefer your definition samuraizero, but the phrase has always been used in ways (even by the original creators of the "jump the shark website") that don't fit in with that definition.

The point is, that the phrase DOES NOT mean that something isn't any good anymore.

[The Mirrorball Man]

The point is, that the phrase DOES NOT mean that something isn't any good anymore.
Well yes, that's exactly what it means, simply because that's exactly how people use it and understand it.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Well yes, that's exactly what it means, simply because that's exactly how people use it and understand it.

No, that's how people misuse the term.

It's supposed to mean something that had a defining moment, and then after that, it was passed by, because the phrase comes from a very defining moment.

[samuraizero]

btw rap is down the crapper these days not jum,ping the shark cept outkast well proberly outkast are the only decnet rap outfit these days cept kanyewest

[Lubichev]

Now my brain is COMPLETELY imploding..............

[The Mirrorball Man]

No, that's how people misuse the term.
It doesn't work like that. When EVERYBODY starts misusing a term, it's no longer a misuse: it's the new meaning of the term. Language evolves.

[monkeysweat]

Language evolves.
Or ignorance and error wins.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Or ignorance and error wins.
Well yeah, of course they do. That's why the US still uses the imperial system of units, but who am I to say that it's wrong?

[KenK]

The last great rap album was Erik B. and Rakim's Paid in Full.

Sure there have been some good ones since but nothing comes close to Paid.

Holy Crap, that's about the most retarded thing I've ever heard!!

[ZombieHavoc]

Shellhead may have a point. It make me wonder,

Why do we, as a nation, accept so much crap in the form of music?

I think the rise in mix CDs is because the signal-to-noise ration of a lot of artists is so bad. Noone wants to buy 12 CDs to get 1 CD of music. Of course the RIAA hates this, but they kind of brought it on themselves.

the average person accepts the crap thats being shoveled yes. but anyone who chooses to can go above the junk thats aired on the radio, in every genre.

there is phenomenal hip hop coming out now, but you arent going to hear it on the radio. same with metal, and everything else.

using a commercially accepted artist as an example for the current state of any music form...well, you are pretty much always going to come up short. in my opinion anyway.

it's a shame, to me, that a 14 year old kid who wants to listen to hip hop is way more likely to buy the new whatever crunked album that is easily accessbile than to buy something with substance like paris, epmd, jungle brothers, or whatever.

[Ayo]

This thread is completely irrelevant; MF DOOM is still alive.

[Leslie Lee III]

it's a shame, to me, that a 14 year old kid who wants to listen to hip hop is way more likely to buy the new whatever crunked album that is easily accessbile than to buy something with substance like paris, epmd, jungle brothers, or whatever.

I don't see what difference it makes as long as people enjoy it. It's truly a sad state of affairs when people can't find "substance" in their lives outside of rap music. I'd rather a kid listen to Lil John then read a book or a newspaper for substance instead of being yet another hipster wannabe listening to Talib Kweli, wearing Che T-Shirts but sitting on their ass on election day. Real knowledge will not come in 3 minutes of rhymed verses, so I say let the kids enjoy what they want.

[Ayo]

I don't see what difference it makes as long as people enjoy it. It's truly a sad state of affairs when people can't find "substance" in their lives outside of rap music. I'd rather a kid listen to Lil John then read a book or a newspaper for substance instead of being yet another hipster wannabe listening to Talib Kweli, wearing Che T-Shirts but sitting on their ass on election day. Real knowledge will not come in 3 minutes of rhymed verses, so I say let the kids enjoy what they want.

True. But: The negative energy from the majority of rap music (not necessarily Lil Jon) does have a detrimental effect on the listener after prolonged exposure.


Or:

You are what you eat.

[Leslie Lee III]

True. But: The negative energy from the majority of rap music (not necessarily Lil Jon) does have a detrimental effect on the listener after prolonged exposure.

According to what reliable scientfic studies? What did does researches figure out about spandex wearing guys punching each other comic books and violent video games and murder/rape primetime crime dramas, and Shakespeare while we're at it? It'd be hard to imagine that rap was the only "negative energy" they encountered, isn't everything else that's the least bit entertaining bad for a "aura" too?

[Ayo]

According to what reliable scientfic studies? What did does researches figure out about spandex wearing guys punching each other comic books and violent video games and murder/rape primetime crime dramas, and Shakespeare while we're at it? It'd be hard to imagine that rap was the only "negative energy" they encountered, isn't everything else that's the least bit entertaining bad for a "aura" too?

Be easy; I never said rap was the "only" source of negative energy.


But I just cannot understand how people can feel honest with themselves when they try to imply that things that we look at and listen to have no effect on our psyches and mental states.


We just happen to be talking about (rap) music today, but my comments remain unchanged for video games, movies, books, television, comic books, and the experiences in real life in our homes and communities.

[Leslie Lee III]

But I just cannot understand how people can feel honest with themselves when they try to imply that things that we look at and listen to have no effect on our psyches and mental states.

I don't understand how people can honestly continue to tell themselves that entertainment is still the problem after study and after study showing it's not. If you want to talk about chakra's or spirits then go ahead, but if you're attempting to talk about anything concrete you've got nothing to back you up. Our friends, family, socio-economic status, etc. have a much more profound influence on us and entertainment is rather insignificant in comparision. It's just easier to point the figure at rap and video games than it is to take a good long like at the real ills of society. There were murders and rape before there was the Bible or Shakespeare or Law and Order SVU. There were gangbangers before there was gangsta rap or Scarface. These things are the reflection, not the cause. The fact that we find these same themes manifesting themselves in our earliest forms of entertainment to our most contemporary is a statement on our world and our nature in this world it is much bigger and more profound than any anti-rap/video games/comics/whatever witch hunt that people join up in every few months.

[Ayo]

I don't understand how people can honestly continue to tell themselves that entertainment is still the problem after study and after study showing it's not. If you want to talk about chakra's or spirits then go ahead, but if you're attempting to talk about anything concrete you've got nothing to back you up. Our friends, family, socio-economic status, etc. have a much more profound influence on us and entertainment is rather insignificant in comparision. It's just easier to point the figure at rap and video games than it is to take a good long like at the real ills of society. There were murders and rape before there was the Bible or Shakespeare or Law and Order SVU. There were gangbangers before there was gangsta rap or Scarface. These things are the reflection, not the cause. The fact that we find these same themes manifesting themselves in our earliest forms of entertainment to our most contemporary is a statement on our world and our nature in this world it is much bigger and more profound than any anti-rap/video games/comics/whatever witch hunt that people join up in every few months.


Les...how many times must we dance this dance?

If your contention is that the media that we experience has NO effect on us, then I contend that this conversation is too ridiculous to continue. I'm sorry, but I just cannot bare it any more.

How can you entertain the idea that things that are said and done have no effect on the mind? I'm not trying to say that rap is a tool that controls people's brains to make them do things. But it is one...of many...factors in the minds of the listeners. And no matter what a person chooses to DO, everything in the world that somebody experiences effects them.

So whether or not you pick up a pistol and rob a store, the movies you watch, games you play and songs you listen to effect your mind in some way. Everything effects you. Light reflects off of a surface to create color and shape, certain vibrations create a pattern called sound, complex patterns of associations contribute to a thing we call "language" (whether spoken, written or cultural) and this is communication. Take it or leave it, everything that you encounter always has and always will effect you.

To imply that you experienced something that literally did not effect you is to imply that you somehow managed to NOT EXIST while the phenomenon was happening to you.

That's like saying that just because you leaned against a mountain and it didn't move that you didn't touch the mountain. The meaning of this last metaphor is: even that which doesn't MOVE a person to ACT still effects that person in some way. However small.

And if enough pressure is applied to ANYthing, the thing will move.

[Ayo]

I don't understand how people can honestly continue to tell themselves that entertainment is still the problem after study and after study showing it's not.

First of all, the main problem is that you seem to be thinking that I'm saying something that I'm not.

When did I ever say that "entertainment is the problem?"

I said "things effect you."

Not the same thing. Acknowedging that something exists isn't the same as pinning all the ills of the world on it.


Also, nevermind the studies. The studies aren't relevant because I am not contradicting them. They're nice, but often besides the point. The studies debunk the idea that certain media can (on a whole, in a great number of people) warp someone's mind and cause the person to behave in a certain way. They studies never indicate that media does not effect a person at all.


Many people...some might even say MOST people use music to either compliment or influence their moods. Like a drug. Sometimes when sad, we put on downbeat music (sympathy for ourselves). Sometimes we put on upbeat music to help ourselves become more cheerful. Anybody that claims that they don't have "booty music" (ie, the mix you put on when you're trying to seduce someone) is a liar. We all use music to influence and color our lives. It stands to reason that music effects us and has an effect on us.

I'm not saying that putting on a kind of music is going to cause a person to kill someone, or cause an icey partner to drop their underwear, or anything...but in those subtle ways, music--and all media--are part of the world that has an effect on us. An effect, an influence. This doesn't mean that these things CAUSE people to do things. But just as the weather and temperature effect us and our decisions, the media that we put into ourselves effect us.

[Leslie Lee III]

If your contention is that the media that we experience has NO effect on us, then I contend that this conversation is too ridiculous to continue.

Everything has an effect, but not an equal effect and the effect of entertainment is miniscule compared to much more important factors that get talked about much less. It does not have such an effect that every single mention of rap on this forum needs to turn into a discussion on what a horrible influence rap is on the kids. It's notthat important and every time someone comes here and makes a post like yours or there's another news story on the topic the true causes are again buried so that people can beat their chest and point their finger at easy targets like music, movies, games, and TV.

Many people...some might even say MOST people use music to either compliment or influence their moods.

Or how about as a release for the emotions and desires and feelings that they already have. What about the catharsis? You seem to assume that negative media goes inward, while much has been written for centuries that the negative feelings people have are released by things such as plays or music that express those emotions. When people are angry or sad they may listen to angry or sad music, but is it because they want to be more angry and more depressed? And, at the end of the day, does it erase or change what outside factor that caused those emotions? No, it's just an emotional release, nothing more.

[ZombieHavoc]

hipster or no, leslie lee, i'm for the continuation of good music. not little john crunk.

i dont care whose opinion it is, little john crunk is just bad music. its in the encyclopedia.

i do agree though, that kids should be listening to what they enjoy. but how can anyone really enjoy this drivel? i mean really. i would wager that most of the kids buying that slop are just buying it (or more realistically, downloading it) because it's popular and easily accessible. i have that little faith in the youth of america.

[Leslie Lee III]

but how can anyone really enjoy this drivel? i mean really. i would wager that most of the kids buying that slop are just buying it (or more realistically, downloading it) because it's popular and easily accessible.

Are you really that incapable of accepting the fact that people have different tastes than you? Lil Jon is not a rapper, but he can be a pretty hot producer at times and his tracks will fair better on any dancefloor in the south than EPMD. Yes, people can dance to hip hop, it's sort of how it started in the first place with people just like Lil Jon speaking limited rhymes over beats. It's funny how he's closer to the roots of hip hop than any "emcee" that gets hipster cred.

[Mabels Folly]

I think rap has hit it's peak. At this point they have "artists" that just specialize in the number of cuss words they can fit into a song. Take a look at these censored lyrics from Lil' Jon.


Lil' Jon Lyrics

Don't XXXX Wit Me Lyrics




Ladies and XXXX gentlemen (Whassup)
It's the kings of XXXX crunk (You know it)
Me, your boy Lil Jon, Lil Bo, Big Sam
On the XXXX track, Rick Rubin (Yeah)
I don't think y'all ready for this XXXX (y'all ain't ready XXXX )
Nothin but some real gangsta XXXX (gangsta XXXX )
For them XXXX and XXXX out there (Yeah)
Now I'm havin a hard XXXX life right now (a hard life)
And I'm gunna give y'all some of my XXXX pain

[Hook - 2X]
Why you XXXX wit me?
Stop XXXX wit me!
Don't be XXXX wit me!
Stop XXXX wit me!

[Interlude 1]
You know, it seems like no matter, no matter how hard I XXXX try
I can't do the right XXXX XXXX
Like I be tryin and XXXX and XXXX always be turning out XXXX up
Like my XXXX always on my XXXX back talkin bout I need to get a XXXX job
Talking bout how I need to pay my XXXX child support and XXXX
XXXX I'm out here tryin to do all that XXXX and that XXXX don't go my XXXX way
Sometimes you need to get the XXXX up off my back
And let me learn how to get this XXXX right on
I want you to stop XXXX wit me
Why don't you stop XXXX wit me

[Hook]

[Verse One]
XXXX I'm tryin to get a job, but it just don't work
(XXXX I'm tryin to get a job, but that shit don't work)
Soon as I walk through the door, on they face is a smirk
(Soon as I walk through the door, on they face is a smirk)
Can't hire no XXXX like me in that XXXX
(Can't hire no XXXX like me in that XXXX )
Tattoos, gold teeth, XXXX dreads and XXXX
(Tattoos, gold teeth, XXXX dreads and XXXX )
Man, XXXX these XXXX , I'll go back to sellin' dope
(Man, XXXX these XXXX , I'll go back to sellin' dope)
Now my baby mama callin bout that child support
(Now my baby mama callin bout that child support)
XXXX back the XXXX up, and let me smoke my weed
(XXXX back the XXXX up, let me smoke my weed)
XXXX you XXXX , stop screamin at me
(XXXX you XXXX , stop XXXX at me)

Oh, and by the way, I'm a [i]brother. I still don't think this junk represents me or my life 1 bit. It's like marketing executives decided to hone in on the most sensational sob-story fantasies possible, pack a bunch of dirty words in, hire some pretty models for a video, and oh, by the way, they need a play something that sounds like an instrument to call it music, so they splice in songs from the 70s or 80s, since noone can play instruments anymore.

I was talking about this at a barbershop (barbershops serve as Black community centers) and the consensus was that no real live black person over 25 can relate to it as reality. It's all fantasy now. A complete smokescreen separated from reality by at least one degree of separation. And while some things that happen in rap songs happen in real life, if your whole life were a rap album, you wouldn't last very long.

Songs don't have to be about reality, but I think that now that it's gotten to the point that subject of the songs are the cuss words, rather than them being simply thrown in, a lot of the ideas are gone. If so much as one new stevie wonder were to appear, the industry would fall like a deck of cards.

Who is the next Stevie Wonder? Who shall be our messiah?


Please.

You're shocked, shocked!!! to be finding out about the excessive and pointless use of obscenity and profanity in rap at the end of 2005?

Og on a Ritz where the hell were you when 2 Live Crew was around.

Their entire writing style was centered around finding non-profanities that they could find some space for amidst the galazy of b****es, C***s***ers, Motherf***ers etc.

And don't even get me started on NWA.

[Phrozen]

Well yeah, of course they do. That's why the US still uses the imperial system of units, but who am I to say that it's wrong?

The metric system as I understand it is for people to lazy to do math.

[Patient Boy]

The metric system as I understand it is for people to lazy to do math.

As seen in the US currency, where to this day farthings, shillings, halfpennies, guineas, crowns and groats are in use.

[Ayo]

Everything has an effect, but not an equal effect and the effect of entertainment is miniscule compared to much more important factors that get talked about much less. It does not have such an effect that every single mention of rap on this forum needs to turn into a discussion on what a horrible influence rap is on the kids. It's notthat important and every time someone comes here and makes a post like yours or there's another news story on the topic the true causes are again buried so that people can beat their chest and point their finger at easy targets like music, movies, games, and TV.



Or how about as a release for the emotions and desires and feelings that they already have. What about the catharsis? You seem to assume that negative media goes inward, while much has been written for centuries that the negative feelings people have are released by things such as plays or music that express those emotions. When people are angry or sad they may listen to angry or sad music, but is it because they want to be more angry and more depressed? And, at the end of the day, does it erase or change what outside factor that caused those emotions? No, it's just an emotional release, nothing more.

"nothing more?"

Just because the effect doesn't amount to mind control doesn't mean that it's negative influence can be swept under the carpet as "miniscule," or something.

Try to find a balance, Les. Help me out by being realistic. The kids listen to this stuff, and they repeat it. To some of them, 50 Cent's word is law. Before 50, it was Eminem and before him, DMX, Jay-Z, Biggie, 2Pac, Snoop Doggy Dogg, Ice Cube, Eazy-E and back, back, back.

There was certainly more balance in the messages put out in the hip hop media some fifteen-eighteen years ago, and that was good. But You can't tell me that the effect sums up to "miniscule," when I've seen with my own eyes how kids take the words of things they hear in the media as The Truth.

How do you figure advertising works, Les? It's the same concept, except in promotion of a product. They put images out there until they bowl over the people and the people buy...whatever. How do you figure politics work? Same thing. Les, people would never have voted George Bush into office if what you said is exactly the way you said it. If the media's influence is "miniscule" on people, then a man who lies and flagrantly disregards the laws of our land could never be voted into power.

But images are powerful, and communication is powerful. It doesn't amount to "mind control," in the science-fiction way, but to deny that the media influences people is ridiculous. Our entire society is based on that media stronghold, from the economy (advertising, especially) to politics and the policies of our daily lives and culture.

I'm sorry, but the uberliberal stance that things can't effect people is bogus. Try to see the middle ground between "no effect" and "complete control" and in that middle ground, that's how the media really works.

Because the human mind isn't biologically/psychologically evolved enough to distingish "real" experience and information from "manufactured." It's all just "experience." What you percieve through your senses effects you whether it's on a TV screen or on the streets. We go to horror movies to give ourselves a good scare, but we KNOW we are in no real danger. Pornography serves to stimulate the erotic desires, even when there's no actual sex partner present. Stimuli stimulates and everything you "learn" (ie, all information you take in is a kind of learning or discovery) effects you in some way.

On that note, the modern human being learns at a far greater rate than in any time in history. Modern society bombards the mind and body with more stimuli than ever before, and that's like learning new information every hour of every day. Just living and experiencing the most mundane modern life is an avalanche of information. THAT EFFECTS YOU.

Will it "make" you run out and rob a liquor store? Probably not. But will a heavy presence of aggressive, hostile, antisocial media tend to influence a person's mood in that direction? That's more likely. Is it a 1-to-1 ratio? Of course not. But these are the subtle ways in which we all die.

[Slappy san]

If Rap has jumped the shark...then so has ALL music.

[Leslie Lee III]

Just because the effect doesn't amount to mind control doesn't mean that it's negative influence can be swept under the carpet as "miniscule," or something.

That's not what I said. You're tactic is that just because it exists it's not miniscule. It certainly is compared to the real problems. Know what is actually likely to make people aggressive, hostile, and antisocial? Bad parents, broken homes, poverty, a society that is against them and offers them no reason to conform. Again you completely ignore the fact that much of this media is used as catharsis as well.

How do you figure advertising works, Les? It's the same concept, except in promotion of a product. They put images out there until they bowl over the people and the people buy...whatever.

That's a perfect example, I'm glad you brought it up. Advertising often works by bombarding people with images then being happy when a majority of them ignore it while just enough to turn a profit buy. How many people have seen the luxury car with a bow commercials? How many people you know own luxury cars? See how there are other factors in ones life that determine if they get a BMW and that seeing the commercial is a rather small factor?

Les, people would never have voted George Bush into office if what you said is exactly the way you said it. If the media's influence is "miniscule" on people, then a man who lies and flagrantly disregards the laws of our land could never be voted into power.

Another great example, as it not only is an example of people willing to ignore the truth even if the media broadcasts it in order to vote with their "heart." It also shows your perception of human nature is quite flawed towards the optimistic. No wonder you're looking to rap music to blame for the ills of your fellow man.

[DanH]

I think rap has hit it's peak. At this point they have "artists" that just specialize in the number of cuss words they can fit into a song. Take a look at these censored lyrics from Lil' Jon.


Lil' Jon Lyrics

Don't XXXX Wit Me Lyrics




Ladies and XXXX gentlemen (Whassup)
It's the kings of XXXX crunk (You know it)
Me, your boy Lil Jon, Lil Bo, Big Sam
On the XXXX track, Rick Rubin (Yeah)
I don't think y'all ready for this XXXX (y'all ain't ready XXXX )
Nothin but some real gangsta XXXX (gangsta XXXX )
For them XXXX and XXXX out there (Yeah)
Now I'm havin a hard XXXX life right now (a hard life)
And I'm gunna give y'all some of my XXXX pain

[Hook - 2X]
Why you XXXX wit me?
Stop XXXX wit me!
Don't be XXXX wit me!
Stop XXXX wit me!

[Interlude 1]
You know, it seems like no matter, no matter how hard I XXXX try
I can't do the right XXXX XXXX
Like I be tryin and XXXX and XXXX always be turning out XXXX up
Like my XXXX always on my XXXX back talkin bout I need to get a XXXX job
Talking bout how I need to pay my XXXX child support and XXXX
XXXX I'm out here tryin to do all that XXXX and that XXXX don't go my XXXX way
Sometimes you need to get the XXXX up off my back
And let me learn how to get this XXXX right on
I want you to stop XXXX wit me
Why don't you stop XXXX wit me

[Hook]

[Verse One]
XXXX I'm tryin to get a job, but it just don't work
(XXXX I'm tryin to get a job, but that shit don't work)
Soon as I walk through the door, on they face is a smirk
(Soon as I walk through the door, on they face is a smirk)
Can't hire no XXXX like me in that XXXX
(Can't hire no XXXX like me in that XXXX )
Tattoos, gold teeth, XXXX dreads and XXXX
(Tattoos, gold teeth, XXXX dreads and XXXX )
Man, XXXX these XXXX , I'll go back to sellin' dope
(Man, XXXX these XXXX , I'll go back to sellin' dope)
Now my baby mama callin bout that child support
(Now my baby mama callin bout that child support)
XXXX back the XXXX up, and let me smoke my weed
(XXXX back the XXXX up, let me smoke my weed)
XXXX you XXXX , stop screamin at me
(XXXX you XXXX , stop XXXX at me)

Oh, and by the way, I'm a [i]brother. I still don't think this junk represents me or my life 1 bit. It's like marketing executives decided to hone in on the most sensational sob-story fantasies possible, pack a bunch of dirty words in, hire some pretty models for a video, and oh, by the way, they need a play something that sounds like an instrument to call it music, so they splice in songs from the 70s or 80s, since noone can play instruments anymore.

I was talking about this at a barbershop (barbershops serve as Black community centers) and the consensus was that no real live black person over 25 can relate to it as reality. It's all fantasy now. A complete smokescreen separated from reality by at least one degree of separation. And while some things that happen in rap songs happen in real life, if your whole life were a rap album, you wouldn't last very long.

Songs don't have to be about reality, but I think that now that it's gotten to the point that subject of the songs are the cuss words, rather than them being simply thrown in, a lot of the ideas are gone. If so much as one new stevie wonder were to appear, the industry would fall like a deck of cards.

Who is the next Stevie Wonder? Who shall be our messiah?

Agreed when "Rap" had a message when it first came out it was new and fresh and people could get into it today maybe I'm just getting too old,..but alot of it sounds the same to me where as in the "old school" you could tell who MC Hammer was,..Who A tribe called Quest was,..Who Sir Mix a lot was and enjoy the music today it just sounds sounds like warmed over violent garbage and until we all band together call our local radio stations and ask them to change the formats they will continue to play it.

[discostu]

Rap hasn't jumped the shark, any genre is good if it is done well. Right now the only rap I really listen to is Danger Doom and Andre Nickatina.

[ZombieHavoc]

Are you really that incapable of accepting the fact that people have different tastes than you? Lil Jon is not a rapper, but he can be a pretty hot producer at times and his tracks will fair better on any dancefloor in the south than EPMD. Yes, people can dance to hip hop, it's sort of how it started in the first place with people just like Lil Jon speaking limited rhymes over beats. It's funny how he's closer to the roots of hip hop than any "emcee" that gets hipster cred.

someone's crunked.

[zombie]

Are you really that incapable of accepting the fact that people have different tastes than you? Lil Jon is not a rapper, but he can be a pretty hot producer at times and his tracks will fair better on any dancefloor in the south than EPMD. Yes, people can dance to hip hop, it's sort of how it started in the first place with people just like Lil Jon speaking limited rhymes over beats. It's funny how he's closer to the roots of hip hop than any "emcee" that gets hipster cred.

I haven't really read anything else in this thread, but I like what you've said here. I never thought about Lil Jon like that, as being closer to the roots of hip-hop. Interesting idea.

[Neil]

How do you figure advertising works, Les?
Why do you figure it actually does?

I know it's conventional wisdom, but most studies have shown it to be pretty lacking in effectiveness actually. And even one's own experience should give one a hint. How many times have any of you heard this, "I saw this great ad! I can't remember what it for, but..."

[Totoro Man]

well, the thing to remember about music is that the crap will ALWAYS vastly outweigh the quality. and you're not gonna hear the most interesting stuff on the radio.

we shouldn't be looking for the next Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, or anybody else you'd like to insert here.

I never expected to become a fan of Ceelo Green (the guy's voice is awesome), Danger Mouse, Outkast, the Wu Tang Clan, or enjoy the Beatnuts (I come from a classical and jazz background)... and while these guys might not be considered the best rappers out there, they've got something to offer. (heh, and this is all fairly old stuff too). but there's been some things like Mad Villian lately that I thought were pretty interesting.

just like classical music... you've gotta consider context. a lot of forms were based on dances (aka entertaining large groups of people) and others were for salons, concert halls, and what-not. I'm sure that rap is the same way. you've probably got really abstract, though-provoking, and experimental stuff... and other things designed to stomp your feet.

there's GOT to be different levels of rappers out there... kinda like John Donne is on a whole different wavelength than Robert Frost but they're both good in their own way. man alive, if I here somebody compare Jim Morrison's "poetry" to some other actually accomplished writer I'm gonna puke... oops, sorry for the tangent. but let's face it. John Lennon and Jim Morrison are vastly inferior "poets" to guys like E.E Cummings or W.H. Auden... the same holds true for rappers. just ignore the crap and start looking for the good stuff. if you can't find it, ask around. it's what I do... I'm too old to keep in touch with all the new fresh stuff... so I just ask some of my friends and co-workers "what's the weirdest shit you've been listening too? what's the best thing coming down the pike? sometimes you'll find something that's not perfect, but at least it's interesting... at least they're TRYING to make a statement. I wouldn't let myself be bothered by Lil John... cuz he's obviously not in it for making art... and I doubt that his music will last long enough to piss off future generations. hell, even great musicians get forgotten (how many people remember Heinrich Schutz or Carlo Gesualdo--these were big-shot names back in the day)

I'm sure that there's lots of fun stuff out there (my favorite recent album, yeah I'm a TOTAL geek, is the Danger Doom colloboration-- Danger Mouse, MF Doom, some Ceelo, Talib Kweli--there's a lot of good people on that album)

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

References to Outkast, Cee-Lo, Kweli... I knew you guys had good taste! If being a "hipster" means preferring well-composed, thoughtful music to cartoonish gangster rap, then sign me up.

I personally miss the days of socially conscious rap music, but it doesn't surprise me that the genre's gone the way of the dodo. It's a trend in every form of entertainment: Performer performs--> performer builds fanbase --> payment for performer's services increases--> performer gets fat and lazy and starts putting out crap to increase fanbase and appeal broadly--> performer won't go away because the money's so good. :p

When it's all the crap that sells the most, you have to look harder to find any kind of real quality. Although I've all but given up on rap music, I still check out the underground stuff and cling to the classics.

[Lubichev]

Holy Crap, that's about the most retarded thing I've ever heard!!
Well you haven't been listening to many of the recent rap albums then. Or you don't listen to what people say. There are PLENTY of more retarded things to hear then "Paid in Full is the best rap album.".

[KenK]

Well you haven't been listening to many of the recent rap albums then. Or you don't listen to what people say. There are PLENTY of more retarded things to hear then "Paid in Full is the best rap album.".

Not to discount Pain In Full, but to say that it's the last great rap album is to ignore Nas's first album, Enter the 36 Chambers (not to mention the first wave of Wu-Tang solo projects), and a handfull of others. And I dare anyone to say Madvillainy won't go down as a classic hip-hop album!

[Slappy san]

Well you haven't been listening to many of the recent rap albums then. Or you don't listen to what people say. There are PLENTY of more retarded things to hear then "Paid in Full is the best rap album.".

No...that was a very retarded comment.

[zombie]

Not to discount Pain In Full, but to say that it's the last great rap album is to ignore Nas's first album, Enter the 36 Chambers (not to mention the first wave of Wu-Tang solo projects), and a handfull of others. And I dare anyone to say Madvillainy won't go down as a classic hip-hop album!

There have been some great albums since Paid In Full, but I can see how someone may feel that nothing's touched it. It's the best album by the GOAT emcee, and if you love the "Golden Age" of rap more than the styles that have come since, then yeah, the comment is far from retarded.

[Ayo]

The Rakim propaganda is far out of control.

Top ten MC? Certainly.

Best EVER? Not to me. He's close, but I can't say "greatest ever."

There have been plenty of albums better than Paid in Full. For one thing, Eric B's solo DJ tracks hurt more than help the album's consistency, and leave wide openings for other more solid albums to score touchdowns on P.I.F.

[Patient Boy]

I love Paid in Full. Rakim is an incredible MC who set new standards for every rapper who came after him.

But listening to the instrumentals is fucking torture, especially when you consider that Eric B.'s contemporaries were people like Jazzy Jeff, Terminator X, et al. Rakim's claim (I think it's a believable claim too) in recent years that he was responsible for coming up with the vast majority of the beats for their earlier albums does nothing to change my opinion on that.

As far as albums go, I would easily put 36 Chambers, Illmatic or either It Takes A Nation of Millions... or Fear of a Black Planet above Paid in Full.

[elheffe]

Not sure where we're at in this conversation (no time to read 5 pages of posts, sorry), but has anyone heard "Laffy Taffy" by D4L? Yeah, there's good rap out there, but this song made the entire Rap genre jump the shark, twice.

[Leslie Lee III]

Not sure where we're at in this conversation (no time to read 5 pages of posts, sorry), but has anyone heard "Laffy Taffy" by D4L? Yeah, there's good rap out there, but this song made the entire Rap genre jump the shark, twice.

How about once a month we take one crap rock song that gets popular and say how much the whole genre sucks? Linkin Park, Staind, and the remnants of Creed alone would supply us with the years full of lame threads.

[Faded]

This year, I haven't really enjoyed rap, apart from Ludacris and a few others. Mike Jones is terrible and I'm from the South. I do not rep his music or chopped n screwed. There are a lot of bad rap songs this year IMO that gained constant replay. Either that or my tastes are changing.

[Headhunter]

I'm sick of mainstream rap/hip hop, and the overwhelming crunk/bling culture that pervades it.

Outside of the radio friendly formats, my limited exposure has been pretty damn good. Have to know where to look (which I'm slowly figuring out)...

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I love rap beyond words but I wouldn't buy any of the garbage down south unless it's from Outcast, Luda, or UGK. Hell, these days I listen to Pop and Rock $hit more on the radio and play old school albums from Pac, Luniz, Richie Rich, Bone Thugs, etc.

[thik_3rd]

all i listen to is the older stuff. things haven't been good since 96. only a very small handful of current artists i check for.

[The Son of Arzonist]

good stuff to check out for people in need of decent hip hop:

Aesop Rock
Atmosphere
Non-phixion
El-P
Mr. Lif
Illmaculate
Mos Def
MF Doom
MF Grimm
The Outsidaz
Pidgeon John
The Mole Men
C-Ray Waltz
S.A. Smash!

[thik_3rd]

most of the guys on that list are part of what's wrong with the new stuff.

[Patient Boy]

most of the guys on that list are part of what's wrong with the new stuff.

Which is?

::ten character dance::

[Ayo]

most of the guys on that list are part of what's wrong with the new stuff.

nuh uh!

MF DOOM, he's like DB Cooper!

[Ayo]

Also:

Don't sleep on Louis Logic and J-Zone.


But going back in my little time machine, there's enough gems from the past to make rap listenable forever.

Right now, my favorite thing in hip hop is Main Source, which is from like fifteen years ago. Large Professor and two DJs, Sir Scratch and K-Cut just putting out track after track of heavy beats and conscious rhymes...it's magic.

I also just located a copy of Fresh, Wild, Fly and Bold, the only "real" album by the Cold Crush Brothers (fans of Jurassic 5, read and weep). This is hip hop at its essence.

And of course, De La Soul's first three albums stand alone as a strong case for hip hop's potential.

Last note on this subject for now: Ultramagnetic MC's are off the meter.

[Robin3]

How about once a month we take one crap rock song that gets popular and say how much the whole genre sucks? Linkin Park, Staind, and the remnants of Creed alone would supply us with the years full of lame threads.

You had to mention Linkin Park. Man, those guys are so lame they reused the same tracks two albums in a row.

I'll tell you what though. When I originally posted, I wasn't talking about morals per se, as some thought. My main problem is when I see a performer who apparently has a paucity of ideas. I'm getting a little worried, too, because I got the latest Stevie Wonder record , and it sounded like he was trying, on some songs, to bend to the modern style of sticking too many words into an R&B song.

Because I blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah love you blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah,

And that's one verse! But in general I like Mr. Wonder's work, so I chalk it up to an experiment.

[Anthony]

How about once a month we take one crap rock song that gets popular and say how much the whole genre sucks? Linkin Park, Staind, and the remnants of Creed alone would supply us with the years full of lame threads.
I'm all for the defense of hip-hop against BS claims of its craptitude.

But seriously, even if you're right (which you are).

Laffy Taffy deserves to be ridiculed...harshly.

[Shellhead]

If Rap has jumped the shark, then Rock must be on life support.

[Cyke]

I miss groups like Tribe and Digable Planets.

[DanH]

Rap is just repeating itself over and over again it is now going down the same path as Disco did....You have to just love Rap artists that try to be street tough and yet live in mansions in CT......Rap is a joke and 2006 will see the rise of a new music form.

[Sanagi]

If Rap has jumped the shark, then Rock must be on life support.
Isn't it?

.

[Shellhead]

Isn't it?

.

Just about. Aside from the White Stripes, I can't think of any recent Rock that's impressed me. Rap still has some life yet. My local college radio station plays some interesting non-mainstream rap on Saturday afternoons. I should start taking notes and looking into some of these songs.

[The Son of Arzonist]

most of the guys on that list are part of what's wrong with the new stuff.

you don't have the slightest clue as to what your talking about

[thik_3rd]

you don't have the slightest clue as to what your talking about
the only ones on that list that are decent are mos and grimm.

[KenK]

the only ones on that list that are decent are mos and grimm.

Are you kidding me?!?! You really gonna sleep on MF DOOM or Mr. Lif?!? Not to mention the Outsidaz. I don't know, man. I feel like some people are just waiting and hoping for rap and hip-hop culture to truly demise, which I think is pretty sad. As unimpressed as I am with most mainstream rappers, I know there's good shit out there if I just look for it. And it's not like you gotta be on some Tomb Raider/Indian Jones shit. Hell, when you can listen to any CD when you scan its barcode at Borders or Barnes & Noble, you have no excuse for not finding something you'd like to listen to. To say nothing of the internet. For all of you guys on this very board complaining about there being no good music in any genre, shame on you! This tool is at your disposal and can be used rather easily for finding music to suit your tastes. Especially with the ever-growing MySpace community and all the up and coming artists who use it to post their music. The door's always open, so just walk through, cotdammit!

[thik_3rd]

Are you kidding me?!?! You really gonna sleep on MF DOOM or Mr. Lif?!? Not to mention the Outsidaz.
i'm not sleeping...they just suck.

[Patient Boy]

i'm not sleeping...they just suck.

I am totally convinced by your argument.

[Leslie Lee III]

Rock is in a much, much, much sadder state than Hip Hop. I like rock more than Hip hop, but listen to LOTS more new rap than new rock. I love plenty of "mainstream" rap and think guys like Wayne, Cam, Buck would eat most of the "non-mainstream" guys named here alive. When it comes to beats, it's not even close. I'd rather listen to big musical beats instead of the same tired grime that many "non-mainstream" guys use constantly.

[KenK]

I love plenty of "mainstream" rap and think guys like Wayne, Cam, Buck would eat most of the "non-mainstream" guys named here alive.

pardon me for just a moment. . . . . . . .
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!**Breathe 'n Stop**
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA!!!!

If you're gonna cite mainstream rappers who you feel are so superior to some of the underground artists we've mention, you'd do well not to include anyone affiliated with Cash Money or The Diplomats(even Jay-Z thinks these fools suck!)!!

When it comes to beats, it's not even close. I'd rather listen to big musical beats instead of the same tired grime that many "non-mainstream" guys use constantly.

I think both mainstream and underground have good producers, so I don't really have much to say on this point.

[zombie]

pardon me for just a moment. . . . . . . .
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!**Breathe 'n Stop**
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA!!!!

If you're gonna cite mainstream rappers who you feel are so superior to some of the underground artists we've mention, you'd do well not to include anyone affiliated with Cash Money or The Diplomats(even Jay-Z thinks these fools suck!)!!

Doesn't matter who they're affiliated with, Weezy F Baby and Killa are nice emcees.

And I think Jay wanted Lil' Wayne to sign with Def Jam.

[KenK]

And I think Jay wanted Lil' Wayne to sign with Def Jam.

I was just referring to Diplomats, sorry.

[Leslie Lee III]

If you're gonna cite mainstream rappers who you feel are so superior to some of the underground artists we've mention, you'd do well not to include anyone affiliated with Cash Money or The Diplomats(even Jay-Z thinks these fools suck!)!!

Then how come Jay-Z had Cam in Roc and tried to sign Lil Wayne away from Cash Money? Did you just completely make that up? And what does the massively over-rated Jay-Z's opinion have to do with anything?

[zombie]

I was just referring to Diplomats, sorry.

Oh. Well, Jay hasn't kicked Juelz off of Def Jam yet. If he really didn't like him, Juelz's album would've been pushed back farther than Ghostface or Redman's.

[zombie]

Then how come Jay-Z had Cam in Roc and tried to sign Lil Wayne away from Cash Money? Did you just completely make that up? And what does the massively over-rated Jay-Z's opinion have to do with anything?

I think Cam was more Dame Dash's doing than Jigga's.

[The Son of Arzonist]

def jam is garbage these days anyways

[Slappy san]

Doesn't matter who they're affiliated with, Weezy F Baby and Killa are nice emcees.

And I think Jay wanted Lil' Wayne to sign with Def Jam.

I don't know why.

[zombie]

I don't know why.

Because he's one of the best doing it these days?

[Slappy san]

Because he's one of the best doing it these days?

What is it? I don't see the appeal at all.

[KenK]

I think Cam was more Dame Dash's doing than Jigga's.

Exactly. Just like putting Kanye West on was more Dame's thing than Jay.

[thik_3rd]

diplomats are the best out right now (even though they've fallen off some from their 03 peak).

[KenK]

diplomats are the best out right now (even though they've fallen off some from their 03 peak).

The only one worth spit is probably Juelz, and even he taxes my tolerance. Don't even get me started on Jim Jones' non-rappin' ass! This man's flow and lyrics are worse than Cam'Ron's!

[Slappy san]

diplomats are the best out right now (even though they've fallen off some from their 03 peak).


:eek:



............

[thik_3rd]

The only one worth spit is probably Juelz, and even he taxes my tolerance. Don't even get me started on Jim Jones' non-rappin' ass! This man's flow and lyrics are worse than Cam'Ron's!
cam has probably the best flow and some of the nicest lyrics out. he's probably the best at multis since az.

[zombie]

cam has probably the best flow and some of the nicest lyrics out. he's probably the best at multis since az.

Not sure I fully agree, but he's up there anyways.

[Leslie Lee III]

The Dips are tops bar none. Great beats, Cam and Juelz are two of the best and everyone else holds their own (except JR, but he's tolerable). I just wish Bezel would flow more. And their beats are just ridiculous.

[zombie]

The Dips are tops bar none. Great beats, Cam and Juelz are two of the best and everyone else holds their own (except JR, but he's tolerable). I just wish Bezel would flow more. And their beats are just ridiculous.

The JR mixtape I heard was really good.

[Anthony]

:eek:



............
You know somehow I think we're on the same page here.

[TitoJones]

The Dipolmats have some decent beats, but that's about it.

While I do like Julez, I think Cam is one of the worst rappers in the history of rap, and no I'm not exgerrating.

BTW, while I'm not a fan, I do like Wayne's latest album.

[thik_3rd]

what don't you like about cam? lyrics and flow are great. beat selection he's top notch.