Batman in JLA: Tower of Babel

[Arkham Resident]

Is TOB accepted in continuity?

Because if it is, it just crossed my mind that Batman's Secret dossiers on the JLA ( which Ras Al Ghul stole in this arc) might have been the initial data Bruce used in developing Brother I ( of which Max Lord stole )

Your thoughts please... :rolleyes:

[megladon8]

I want to read Tower of Babel so bad!

[Arkham Resident]

I want to read Tower of Babel so bad!

Do it, man. I think its the best JLA arc for me.

[Smarty Jones]

"Is TOB accepted in continuity?

Because if it is, it just crossed my mind that Batman's Secret dossiers on the JLA ( which Ras Al Ghul stole in this arc) might have been the initial data Bruce used in developing Brother I ( of which Max Lord stole )

Your thoughts please... :rolleyes:"

Of course, it's continuity.

One condition (Ra's al Ghul stealing Batman's dossier) may not be related to the other (Maxwell Lord stealing the same file), but it may be possible.

[megladon8]

Do it, man. I think its the best JLA arc for me.


I'm going to as soon as I get a bit of money.

[K'Nort]

Many libraries carry the JLA (and many other) trades. And the ones that don't will frequently order them from other libraries. You can read a heck of a lot for free.

[Guts/Batman]

Yep.

It is indeed in contuinty.

You would have basically really, really wanna figure out where though because trying to figure out where Batman's JLA appearances fit into his other appearances will just make you utterly insane.

Figuring out Batman's continuity is an exercise in futility.

I think Brother MK1 has been in the sky since Prodigal.

[Joker2503]

TOB is most definitely in continuity. It has even been addressed in Infinite Crisis, although I can't remember which book. Someone basically said, "The plans to kill us weren't enough, now you need to watch us 24/7?"

[georgebeard]

As if the editorial at DC at the time didn't follow-up that controversial arc soon enough, until identity crisis came along. But major credit goes to them for starting the ball rolling.

I was wondering also, what was the whole crossover storyline called "Silver Age" all about? You know the one that some DC books went retro, ala-silver age, hence the name. I have the first book written by Waid and drawn by the Dodsons, but I didn't have the complete set. Later I read at an issue of Wizard that says the crossover sucked. :confused: . Anybody help me clear that up? Thanks.

[georgebeard]

Also this was the story that Bats referred to as one of the reasons why he put up the anti-JLA protocols, but he didn't eleborate except for the name Agamenmo. (Did i got the spelling right?)

[Arkham Resident]

Yep.

It is indeed in contuinty.

You would have basically really, really wanna figure out where though because trying to figure out where Batman's JLA appearances fit into his other appearances will just make you utterly insane.

Figuring out Batman's continuity is an exercise in futility.

I think Brother MK1 has been in the sky since Prodigal.

Yeah.. i can relate to the utterly insane thing.

Anyways, lets try...This may be spoilers for those that
havent read TOB yet..














questions:

In TOB's ending.. Batman was voted- out from JLA. Was there any
batbooks or minis acknowledging this fact?

Was Batman accepted again by JLA when Identity Crisis happened?

[Patient Boy]

Yeah.. i can relate to the utterly insane thing.

Anyways, lets try...This may be spoilers for those that
havent read TOB yet..














questions:

In TOB's ending.. Batman was voted- out from JLA. Was there any
batbooks or minis acknowledging this fact?

Was Batman accepted again by JLA when Identity Crisis happened?

Batman was accepted back into the JLA a few months(in real time) after Tower of Babel and has been a JLA member since then (you'll have to excuse me if I'm wrong, I lost interest after the Morrison and Waid runs).

[Kirayoshi]

IIRC, Batman's departure led to a period of mistrust between the JLA members, which showed heavily during the Queen of Fables arc. Immediately afterwards, Superman confronted Batman about what was happening to the League, offering an olive branch as the two worked out a solution. They invited the rest of the League to the Batcave, and when the League arrived, Supes and Bats appeared before them--as Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne. Recognizing this sign of trust, the other Leaguers who had secret identities shared them(Aquaman and Wonder Woman really don't have secret identities, so...) as a way of rebuilding trust within the League.

Then that whole Identity Crisis retcon took place and bolloxed the whole show.

[Guts/Batman]

Kirayoshi is on the money.

Batman's "treachery" had left the JLA splintered into factions: Those who voted for him to stay, those who voted to leave and Superman...literally by himself trying to mend the two groups.

The two groups were growing even more splintered throughout the Queen of Fables arc (first half of vol. 8 Divided We Fall). Each member was distrusting of another.

The distrust and "betrayal" of Batman had left a scar on each of the members (especially Wonder Woman). MM is more understanding of Batman but by no means excuses it. Kyle says they need to have a nice long talk but he wants Bruce to stay. Plastic Man just throws him away like yesterday's garbage.

Superman is unable to mend the fences because of what Batman has done. Superman says something about wishing that they didn't have secret identities and then...

When Superman sends a distress call from the cave (it was an unknown location to most of the league members) the group has a kind of "make up" session and they all reveal their secret identities and just then the Batmobile comes driving in.

I won't spoil the whole thing but the whole thing is caused by 5-D imps who have decided to make Superman's "dream" a reality. They end up kicking the 5-d Imp's asses and kick them back to their own dimension.

None of the JLA has forgotten about his protocol's or MM's dossier's. But then as Kirayoshi said...Identity Crisis kinda blew this one out of the water.

[Guts/Batman]

questions:

In TOB's ending.. Batman was voted- out from JLA. Was there any
batbooks or minis acknowledging this fact?

Was Batman accepted again by JLA when Identity Crisis happened?

Identity Crisis happened a loooooooooooooooongggg time before ToB happened in the timeline.

The retcon of Batman being mindwiped, that is.

ToB fits into the timeline nicely as one of the countermeasures that Bruce made after he found out he was mindwiped along with his other major known (to the reader) countermeasure, Brother MK1.

[K'Nort]

Superman is unable to mend the fences because of what Batman has done. Superman says something about wishing that they didn't have secret identities and then...

When Superman sends a distress call from the cave (it was an unknown location to most of the league members) the group has a kind of "make up" session and they all reveal their secret identities and just then the Batmobile comes driving in.

I won't spoil the whole thing but the whole thing is caused by 5-D imps who have decided to make Superman's "dream" a reality. They end up kicking the 5-d Imp's asses and kick them back to their own dimension.

Were they responding to Superman or to J'Onn? I'm remembering it as some earlier unspoken wish J'Onn made.

Incredibly awesome arc regardless.

[Guts/Batman]

I don't recall they responded to J'onn's wish. I believe they told Clark (important distinction in this story) why they (the two 5-d Imps) did what they did.

But totally agreed. It was an excellent arc. Especially where Batman is concerned.

"Batman"...you see what "Batman" really is.

[ouiyahtsiouiyah]

Tower of Babel takes place before Batman:Evolution TPB a Detective arc not sure of the issue #'s. Ra's Al Ghul after escaping from the JLA tries his most dire plot. Running out of time and options Batman has to stop the Demon's head.

[LordEd1976]

TOB is most definitely in continuity. It has even been addressed in Infinite Crisis, although I can't remember which book. Someone basically said, "The plans to kill us weren't enough, now you need to watch us 24/7?"

i believe Superman said it in OMAC project when Batman revealed the existence of Brother I.

[Guts/Batman]

i believe Superman said it in OMAC project when Batman revealed the existence of Brother I.

He was referring to the Black Box that Batman was trying to find in the rubble of the Watchtower. That was in Infinite Crisis #1.

[Arkham Resident]

To all of you who responded, Thanks.

Your info on this thread has been very informative, for me.

Last question, kinda free-for-all:

If Batman was not mind-wiped, do you think he would've ( for any other reasons) still created his Secret dossiers and Brother MK1?

:rolleyes:

[Guts/Batman]

Last question, kinda free-for-all:

If Batman was not mind-wiped, do you think he would've ( for any other reasons) still created his Secret dossiers and Brother MK1?

:rolleyes:

At the time of ToB, there, to my knowledge, wasn't Identity Crisis in the works so I would say yes.

The retcon of the mindwipe retroactively puts the mindwipe as the potential trigger for his creating the dossiers.

Brother MK1...no.

[Chad G.]

At the time of ToB, there, to my knowledge, was Identity Crisis in the works so I would say yes.

The retcon of the mindwipe retroactively puts the mindwipe as the potential trigger for his creating the dossiers.

Brother MK1...no.

I think you hit it dead on there. Without the mindwipe, yes, he still creates the dossiers. Thats just how Batman is. But I don't think he would have freaked out like he did and put Brother Eye up without that happening.