It's Immoral, Un-natural, and I Shouldn't Have to See It In Public

[Nate C.]

The love for all things D.C.

What? What did you think this thread was about?

Seriously, I am a Marvel Zombie, and while I'll be the first to admit that DC has put out some seriously hardcore books in the last six decades, and ruled the roost with some great books in the last three (all my favorite mainstream graphic novels are DC published), I just don't understand the DC mania over the continuity stuff.

I mean, the Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, Thor, The Hulk, Iron-Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man

vs/

Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Fish-Man, Wingsy, JLA, and Green Martian?

Someone explain it to me.

[west3man]

The love for all things D.C.

What? What did you think this thread was about?

Seriously, I am a Marvel Zombie, and while I'll be the first to admit that DC has put out some seriously hardcore books in the last six decades, and ruled the roost with some great books in the last three (all my favorite mainstream graphic novels are DC published), I just don't understand the DC mania over the continuity stuff.

I mean, the Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, Thor, The Hulk, Iron-Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man

vs/

Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Fish-Man, Wingsy, JLA, and Green Martian?

Someone explain it to me.
I think either can be fun, but when continuity boundaries are kept in-check, one can become further immersed in that world, without as many suspension-of-disbelief interruptions.

Vietnam's getting further and further away.

[Nate C.]

Vietnam's getting further and further away.

Good point.

But are you a DC guy, and if so, why? And is so, why not a Marvel guy?

[Evil Sneak]

explain it to us. Especially the Superman, Green Lantern love, I can't see it when there are (IMO) better characters like Captain Marvel & Wonder Woman around.

[Solaris]

I don't know enough about it, though I do say WW is a favorite... but you just made me laugh, with the contrast between the thread title and the content. :D

[west3man]

Good point.

But are you a DC guy, and if so, why? And is so, why not a Marvel guy?
I'm ambi-dork-strous. I like'em both.

These days, I read and enjoy far more DC than Marvel, I *think,* but I wouldn't call myself a DC guy or a Marvel Zombie.

Why? Unlike some, I think there *are* certain distinct differences between the two companies, their 'universes,' and their approaches, but I dig it all.

On the one geek-hand, I like a bit o' realism and a bit o' grit. Costumes that would translate a bit better into the real world, looking less gaudy and circus-like (ironically, I know), appeals to me. Also, Marvel's got a nice tapestry of characters and events in the X- and non-X portions of their universe. Even when they're over-used, there's a richness that I really appreciate. Phoenix, anyone?

Then, on the other geek-hand, there's nostalgia. Colorful costumes and larger-than-life feats can be fun, too. It's not just that they're fun, by themselves, it's also the fact that they remind me of a time when I was young enough to think that just MAYBE there actually WERE little blue men out there looking for the most noble among us, ready to gift and burden us with the power and responsibility of a GL-ring.


Obviously, there's more to both universes, but those are some of the things I dig about each (things which are sometimes common to both). Unfortunately, they're in crossover land, right now, and I'm not diggin that, too much. I pick up some stuff here and there, but far less new stuff than I used to (this on top of my tpb-only policy).

[Nate C.]

thanks, West.

Next?

[Winslow]

I loved Batman as a kid - probably because of the Adam West TV show. And Batman seems to have an enduring mystique in the culture. I'll let someone smarter unravel the answer for that. My guess is the individualism, the anti-hero aspects of his character, the tragic past, and the fact that he's human and does amazing things without supernatural powers.

But I confess, when I started reading comics as a kid, it was all Marvel, especially Fantastic 4, Thor, and Spiderman.

I tried mainstream comics when I started reading them again in 2002 - but I hated what both DC and Marvelhad done with the characters. I found independents and small press more interesting.

[Ed Cunard]

More later, when I have more time, but...

I'm amber-dork-strous. I like'em both.


That's just freaking awesome. Frame-worthy.

[Dennis K]

I was a 99% Marvel Zombie as a kid, but in the last couple years or so that I've gotten back into reading comics I'm finding myself enjoying more DC titles.

[HomerJay]

Why? Unlike some, I think there *are* certain distinct differences between the two companies, their 'universes,' and their approaches, but I dig it all.

On the one geek-hand, I like a bit o' realism and a bit o' grit. Costumes that would translate a bit better into the real world, looking less gaudy and circus-like (ironically, I know), appeals to me. Also, Marvel's got a nice tapestry of characters and events in the X- and non-X portions of their universe. Even when they're over-used, there's a richness that I really appreciate. Phoenix, anyone?

Then, on the other geek-hand, there's nostalgia. Colorful costumes and larger-than-life feats can be fun, too. It's not just that they're fun, by themselves, it's also the fact that they remind me of a time when I was young enough to think that just MAYBE there actually WERE little blue men out there looking for the most noble among us, ready to gift and burden us with the power and responsibility of a GL-ring.


This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

DC has a mythical larger-than-life quality that makes me feel like a kid. Marvel appeals to the adult in me by having characters that you can relate to and "know".

I've been a Marvel guy for so long, but the pendulum has been swinging back to DC lately for me because of some their recent series that have really sucked me in (Identity Crisis, Rebirth, OMAC, Villians United, All-Star Batman & Superman, Infinite Crisis). I'm also one of the few folks that is actually enjoying Infinite Crisis more than I did House of M.
2 out of my 3 favorite characters still belong to Marvel though.

[Shellhead]

The love for all things D.C.

What? What did you think this thread was about?

Seriously, I am a Marvel Zombie, and while I'll be the first to admit that DC has put out some seriously hardcore books in the last six decades, and ruled the roost with some great books in the last three (all my favorite mainstream graphic novels are DC published), I just don't understand the DC mania over the continuity stuff.

I mean, the Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, Thor, The Hulk, Iron-Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man

vs/

Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Fish-Man, Wingsy, JLA, and Green Martian?

Someone explain it to me.

I started as a Marvel Zombie, but by the early 80's, Shooter was wrecking half the things I liked about Marvel, while Wolfman and Perez were doing great work with the Teen Titans for DC. That's when I began to suspect that I would enjoy the efforts a great creative team more than the monthly adventures of my favorite heroes handled by talentless hacks.

Post-Crisis DC was amazing for the first few years, and that's when I started to drop Marvel titles left and right. By the early 90's, both companies were putting out too much crap, so I stopped buying comics for a few years. A few years ago, I noticed that Marvel was doing some great comics again, and so was DC.

Today, I think that 95% of Marvel's output is disappointing, so they don't get my money anymore. While I find IC to be infinitely annoying, I am really enjoying some DC titles that are not connected to IC, like Legion and the Seven Soldiers. If post-IC DC sucks, I will stop buying their comics. At this point, I think that Marvel is so bad that it will take a new Editor-in-Chief to get me to buy from them again.

[west3man]

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

DC has a mythical larger-than-life quality that makes me feel like a kid. Marvel appeals to the adult in me by having characters that you can relate to and "know".
When I was typing my post, I thought of the old "Shredded Wheat" cereal commercials, from when I was a kid. Your post really brought it home.

For those who don't remember, they'd have an adult eating a bowl of shredded wheat, saying that the one side (I forget if they called it "the wheat side" or what) appealed to the adult in them, but the frosted side (then they'd turn into a child, wearing the same adult-clothes) appealed to the kid in them.

[Gaz]

I started as a Marvel Zombie, but by the early 80's, Shooter was wrecking half the things I liked about Marvel, while Wolfman and Perez were doing great work with the Teen Titans for DC. That's when I began to suspect that I would enjoy the efforts a great creative team more than the monthly adventures of my favorite heroes handled by talentless hacks.

Post-Crisis DC was amazing for the first few years, and that's when I started to drop Marvel titles left and right. By the early 90's, both companies were putting out too much crap, so I stopped buying comics for a few years. A few years ago, I noticed that Marvel was doing some great comics again, and so was DC.

Today, I think that 95% of Marvel's output is disappointing, so they don't get my money anymore. While I find IC to be infinitely annoying, I am really enjoying some DC titles that are not connected to IC, like Legion and the Seven Soldiers. If post-IC DC sucks, I will stop buying their comics. At this point, I think that Marvel is so bad that it will take a new Editor-in-Chief to get me to buy from them again.

Maybe you're reading the wrong Marvel stuff? I can't think of anything from them recently that I didn't at least enjoy, if not love.

[Dennis K]

At this point, I think that Marvel is so bad that it will take a new Editor-in-Chief to get me to buy from them again.


Captain America is as good as anything out on the market right now, and the Ultimates isn't far behind it, give them a try, you may be pleasantly suprised.

[venuscameback]

At this point, I think that Marvel is so bad that it will take a new Editor-in-Chief to get me to buy from them again

Daredevil, Young Avengers, Powers & Kabuki are all excellent Marvel titles.

Gotham Central & Y- The Last Man thrill me over at DC.

I'm still buying maybe 60% of my comics from Marvel but I suspect that at any time except maybe the early 90s there were great books from both publishers

but I grew up reading only Marvel and so my heart belongs with their characters & will take an awful long time to shift

venus

[Shellhead]

Thanks for the suggestions. But I abhor the basic concept of the Ultimates line, and I have lost all patience with the decompressed story-telling that is endemic at Marvel these days. Writing for the trade? Bull, give me some damn action every issue. I really enjoyed Kabuki until Mack apparently went completely off his meds and every issue became self-indulgent collages and schizoid word salad. I'm tempted to give Captain America a try, but I heard that a great story recently got temporarily de-railed by HoM, which goes back to my basic problem with the way Quesada is running things.

[west3man]

On the "crossovers" tip, let me say that I don't think crossovers are bad ideas, really. Some folks have a problem with them, in general.

Personally, I LOVE some of the crossovers from waybackwhen. I just have a problem with how they're handled, sometimes. Sure continuity and characterization can be issues, but crossovers are big investments on the part of the consumer. The more you buy into them (literally and figuratively) the more you ought to get in return. Too frequently, I've hung with a long-term or wide-reaching event just to find that it wasn't worth all the money I spent on it. This has been more of a recent thing, though, and it's not limited to crossovers.

Year-long arcs with weak payoffs don't deserve my $$$, so I try harder not to give it to them.

[venuscameback]

Thanks for the suggestions. But I abhor the basic concept of the Ultimates line, and I have lost all patience with the decompressed story-telling that is endemic at Marvel these days. Writing for the trade? Bull, give me some damn action every issue. I really enjoyed Kabuki until Mack apparently went completely off his meds and every issue became self-indulgent collages and schizoid word salad. I'm tempted to give Captain America a try, but I heard that a great story recently got temporarily de-railed by HoM, which goes back to my basic problem with the way Quesada is running things.


there was only one issue of HoM Captain America, fortunately ... and on a title that's shipping when it should I don't think that's too annoying. Annoying, if you really want to avoid all HoM issues, but not that bad. and it was one of the best tie-in issues, requiring minimal knowledge of the HoM story.


funny how different folk respond - I enjoyed earlier Kabuki stuff to a degree but only started loving it with David Mack's more experimental approaches to his art. I love his collage work and thought his playing around with the rest room symbols in issue #4 superb.

To each their own and all that.

venus

[Shellhead]

On the "crossovers" tip, let me say that I don't think crossovers are bad ideas, really. Some folks have a problem with them, in general.

Personally, I LOVE some of the crossovers from waybackwhen. I just have a problem with how they're handled, sometimes. Sure continuity and characterization can be issues, but crossovers are big investments on the part of the consumer. The more you buy into them (literally and figuratively) the more you ought to get in return. Too frequently, I've hung with a long-term or wide-reaching event just to find that it wasn't worth all the money I spent on it. This has been more of a recent thing, though, and it's not limited to crossovers.

Year-long arcs with weak payoffs don't deserve my $$$, so I try harder not to give it to them.

Many good points here. I still think that one of the best crossovers was one of the first: the Avengers-Defenders War. It only involved two monthly titles, and they had the same writer, Steve Englehart, so everybody involved stayed in character. There was a brief prologue in one title and an issue-long epilogue in the other title, but the actual crossover was three issues in each title, timed to coincide with summer break. (This was back when kids were still the main target market for comics.) The threat was vast, the plot was interesting, and there were cameos of nearly every major Marvel character at that time, including Dracula, Nick Fury and Thanos.

[megladon8]

I always found Marvel's stuff to be very soap-opera like.

I'm a DC guy born and raised.

Don't get me wrong...there are some great Marvel books, and I'm definitely a Marvel fan.

But I'll take Batman or Superman over Spider-Man or X-Men any day of the week.

[Gaz]

Thanks for the suggestions. But I abhor the basic concept of the Ultimates line, and I have lost all patience with the decompressed story-telling that is endemic at Marvel these days. Writing for the trade? Bull, give me some damn action every issue. I really enjoyed Kabuki until Mack apparently went completely off his meds and every issue became self-indulgent collages and schizoid word salad. I'm tempted to give Captain America a try, but I heard that a great story recently got temporarily de-railed by HoM, which goes back to my basic problem with the way Quesada is running things.
Young Avengers then. We're on part one of a story and the Super-Skrull's already killed a character, blown up half a block of Manhatten real estate and kidnapped 2 of our heroes.

[Shellhead]

Young Avengers then. We're on part one of a story and the Super-Skrull's already killed a character, blown up half a block of Manhatten real estate and kidnapped 2 of our heroes.

Okay, I should give Young Avengers a try anyway, since I was a big fan of the first two seasons of the O.C.

[Typo Lad]

Okay, I should give Young Avengers a try anyway, since I was a big fan of the first two seasons of the O.C.

Young Avengers is Good Comics.

So is Runaways.

Marvel Team-Up is also good, pure comic fun.

[Paradox]

west3man coins a phrase?:

I'm amber-dork-strous.

I like that!

I'm stealing that! :D

[Tommy]

DC tends to pump up their charectors to the point of boredom. Nothing seems like a challenge.

Honestly if I wanted to read about Gods I would read more Greek Mythology.

[jimmyboy]

But I confess, when I started reading comics as a kid, it was all Marvel, especially Fantastic 4, Thor, and Spiderman.

Same here. I started as a kid back in the early to mid-80's with Marvel. I still love Marvel. The only thing that has changed is that I've opened my heart to DC and their characters. :)

I loved Batman as a kid - probably because of the Adam West TV show. And Batman seems to have an enduring mystique in the culture. I'll let someone smarter unravel the answer for that. My guess is the individualism, the anti-hero aspects of his character, the tragic past, and the fact that he's human and does amazing things without supernatural powers.

I never liked the Adam West Batman, or the TV show as a kid. Today, I can appreciate the hokiness of it all, and enjoy it for the silliness, but it just isn't Batman. Not the one I call the "real" Batman, which is the one we have in the last few decades in DC comics. DC describes him as "the pinnacle of human achievement", and that's exactly what he is. In DC stories, especially when it's a group story like Justic League, if there's anyone who they all can count on to pull them through, it's Batman, the one with no physical super-human powers.

One of the things I like about him is that he's consistent, reliable, utterly disciplined, and he never ever gives up. Plus, and this is what really makes him controversial, he'll do anything and everything that needs to be done to win, short of murder. "All's fair in love and war", and that's exactly how he plays it. It often seems like he has no compassion, even for his closest friends, but in the end, most people can understand why he did what he did, and can even admit that it was the right thing to do (even if they still think he's a cold-hearted jerk). He's also one of the wealthiest men around, with access to just about any kind of technology, or the means to create any kind of technology...yet the only thing he cares about is protecting people. He doesn't care at all about "stuff", except that this stuff is a tool in doing his job. Money? Yes, it's a means to an end. Neat gadgets? Yep, they too are tools of the trade, more means to the end. Priceless collector's items? They too will sooner or later get used as tools. I really like this kind of thinking, so to me it's inspiring.

But his real powers are his mind and his heart, which actually can be said to be superpowers in his case. These are what make him what he is. His strength of mind and will are amazing even to those like Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, etc. He has no boundaries as to what he'll do, where he'll go, or who he'll go up against; what needs to happen. He'll readily, and without any hesitation or fear for himself, go up against someone like Galactus, single-handedly, if it will buy his friends some chance to survive. All without any invulnerability, super-strength, super-speed, etc. If he has to, he'd even go to Galactus's homeworld and, by himself and without consulting anyone else (which he doesn't do anyway), walk up to him and confront him. (Substitute Galactus with Darkseid and you'll have an actual DC story event.) Nothing is off limits, and the thing is that he never does this stuff for himself. It's always for his friends or for his city, and this is another thing I really like about him. Also, he'll pour millions of dollars into things like children's hospitals, and charities, just as much as he'll pour it into developing more tools for his trade. (Children are the real key to his heart, especially those who are in really bad situations.)

But he's certainly not perfect. It's his seeming coldness and demand for perfection and discipline that drives a wedge between he and his friends. With Batman, there's no margin for error. You do it right, the first time, or you get out. "It's my way or the highway!" Plus, he does have some serious issues to resolve; his extreme paranoia (or is it disciplined caution?), his problem with showing softness or opening his heart to a romantic relationship, etc. Like I said, everything is a potential tool to be used in his war on evil-doers, and that includes people. Especially his friends. The thing is that he uses them in the same way he uses himself, but most people can't compete with his strength of will and heart, and so people lose sight of the why he does what he does. (Really, people are the only things that are important to him, and he routinely offers up his own life and well-being to protect them.) All of this makes him seem like he has no heart, no caring for anyone, which really isn't true.

Superman, on the other hand, is the pinnacle of possibility, superhumanly speaking. He's also one of Batman's closest and oldest friends, and the way DC puts them together in the same situations, and contrasts them, is interesting. Personality-wise, Superman is the exact opposite of Batman. He's patient, and gives most people the benefit of the doubt. He's also very diplomatic about how he deals with people (whereas Batman doesn't know the meaning of the word "tact"). He's willing to let others have a say in how things should be done, and he's not afraid to let people get close to him. Yet the two are best friends, and together are the leaders and the inspiration of the heroes of the world. When things go really bad, everyone looks to one or both of them.

Green Lantern is actually not one character, but many, which itself is an interesting facet of the characters and stories. The same for the Flash. They've all been developed into interesting characters, like Batman and Superman and Wonder Woman. Like the others, their powers brings some difficult snags, or create some tough situations. How they use them and deal with them defines them as characters. But really, like any good super-hero character and story, it's a soap opera. :p It's the continuing development of the characters and stories that keeps it all interesting.

[Gaz]

Young Avengers is Good Comics.

So is Runaways.

Marvel Team-Up is also good, pure comic fun.
You seen the preview for Runaways #11? :D

[Ultraman Max]

The only time I was ever really a Marvel Zombie was from 1989 (after I learned some jerks went and voted to have Robin killed) to 1993 or so when The Reign of the Supermen started and they now had a new Superboy.

When I was a kid I liked characters from both but largely leaned DC as their characters seemed far larger than life than Marvel's. When Alex Ross says stuff like " I like Spider-Man but hated Peter Parker" I can understand what he meant because I was similar as a kid. I loved the visuals of Spider-Man and his battles with The Green Goblin and Doc Ock but hated when he spent more time out of costume fretting about his bills or girl problems. It was too soap opera for me, and soap operas were those things my mom would watch when I wanted to watch cartoons. So something like Superfriends where the characters were rarely ever out of costume and always facing some world ending threat was far more interesting to me. Big fan of the Adam West Batman reruns growing up too.

That changed when I was in my teens (and battling depression) and I could relate more to the angsty or darker material. But now that I've worked past alot of that, my tastes are closer to what they were when I was younger (the larger than life or weird stuff). Though I have somewhat more paitience for the slower, angsty parts. In recent years though Quesada seems to have pushed things to a "realism" extreme that I no longer care to read about on a regular basis. I think prior to the first issue of the Thing, the last Marvel comic I bought regularly was Geoff Johns first arc on The Avengers.

That doesn't mean I went DC only though since they seem determined to mimic Marvel's stuff. I started finding a few Indie/Image material and quite a bit of manga, which leaned closer to the wild and crazy stuff which I tend to like.

Given the choice, at present, I would pick Superman space traveling world smashing over Spider-man maritial and bill issues.

[MacQuarrie]

Two words: Captain Carrot.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I think Marvel and DC both put out different products and go thru years of High/Lows. Right now DC's riding a 2 year high mark...thier stories are hitting good. Thier causing a stir ...thier driving fans to collect back issues that are key tie-ins to the overall event.

Marvel has had highs and lows and right now they've rushed. Its like a gunfighter who draws 1st. In thier rush to beat DC to market with thier big stories Joe Quesada haphazardly threw events out. He never sit down and planned long ranging stories out.

The last 2 years haven't been kind for Quesada. He's taken a ton of heat for the lackluster 8 issue mini-series he rushed out over the summer. This echoed his disastorous planning that went into Avengers and Amazing Spiderman.

He threw 2 events out in 2004 that had many mocking the company. This didn't help when 1 writer ( Bendis apologized for his Avengers) got angry and complained that fans should draw thier own past plotlines so his story would make sense.

Quesada sit and realized that his company had got openely mocked in 2004. So he decided to hand his books to Bendis and let Bendis launch an 8 issue mini. Of course knowing Bendis he never really writes much into his stories. He makes Todd McFarlane look like Chris Claremont with plots.

So Bendis for 8 issues really did nothing. The heroes woke up and ran around. They finally fought in 1 issue and woke up the next. End of fight....answers none....you out $ 24.00 bucks for it.

Had Quesada been smart he would have promoted the books that really have helped the company like Young Avengers. Its the type of book that shows that...if he leaves it alone and doesn't try stupied " shock" stunts it will be a great series.

Marvel is a good company. Its just that they have to seriously plan things out from now on. Not rush into projects because it means beating DC to the sales counter. As we've seen they have seriously fucked up thier charactors major in doing this.

[Patient Boy]

I have to say I'd thought brand loyalty was dead. I like Marvel, I like DC and I like any comics publisher who can consistently keep me entertained. I don't think there's much point any longer in being a Marvel Zombie or a DC... whatever it is they call DC readers.

[Shellhead]

I think that one basic problem might be that Quesada is too much of a fan and not enough of a professional. By that, I mean that Quesada loves so many comics that he is unable to tell which ones are pretty good and which ones are pretty bad. He's like one of those Star Trek fans who compulsively buys every Star Trek novel with Kirk on the cover. The result is like having a tone-deaf guy running a record label. The results will be fairly random and often disappointing.

[west3man]

I have to say I'd thought brand loyalty was dead. I like Marvel, I like DC and I like any comics publisher who can consistently keep me entertained. I don't think there's much point any longer in being a Marvel Zombie or a DC... whatever it is they call DC readers.
I think some people are loyal, but others just like a different tone or feel to their comics. I think Marvel and DC are on different frequencies. They produce different types of character designs and tell different types of stories - to a degree.

[Patient Boy]

I think some people are loyal, but others just like a different tone or feel to their comics. I think Marvel and DC are on different frequencies. They produce different types of character designs and tell different types of stories - to a degree.

The only significant advantage I see that DC has is that they're able to do great non-superhero stories. I don't think Marvel has ever been able to successfully expand beyond the superhero/adventure/sci-fi niche, outside of Star comics (its kids/licensed properties line) maybe.

Will Marvel ever have its own Sandman (not the Spider-Man villain/ex-Avenger/ex-Wild pack member), for example?

[Shellhead]

The only significant advantage I see that DC has is that they're able to do great non-superhero stories. I don't think Marvel has ever been able to successfully expand beyond the superhero/adventure/sci-fi niche, outside of Star comics (its kids/licensed properties line) maybe.

Will Marvel ever have its own Sandman (not the Spider-Man villain/ex-Avenger/ex-Wild pack member), for example?

Marvel successfully experimented with a wide range of types of comics back in the 70's. Since then, they have become more corporate and more obsessed with superheroes.

[Tommy]

Will Marvel ever have its own Sandman (not the Spider-Man villain/ex-Avenger/ex-Wild pack member), for example?
I am really hoping for an Umar the Unholy book to spin out of Defenders.

[Tommy]

Marvel successfully experimented with a wide range of types of comics back in the 70's. Since then, they have become more corporate and more obsessed with superheroes.
Personaly I think going bankrupt in the 90's really hurt Marvel's willingness to experiment.

But they seem to be testing the waters lately. Historical What Ifs, Romance comics, Monster comics...

[Shellhead]

I gave Young Avengers a try with the current issue. I was approached it with relative neutrality. On the one hand, I'm not really interested in another title about young, inexperienced heroes. On the other hand, I enjoyed Heinberg's work on The O.C., I've heard good things here at CBR, and I generally like things involving the Avengers.

Young Avengers #9 was okay. The cover was a little cluttered looking, but the pencils were decent. The interior artwork was just average. The fight with the Super Skrull was too brief, but maybe there will be a longer fight at the start of next issue. The writing was good, but not good enough to hook me, or to even overcome the plain artwork. The $3.00 cover price is a dealbreaker for me. At that price, I expect above average artwork and writing, and I won't settle for less.

[Gaz]

I gave Young Avengers a try with the current issue. I was approached it with relative neutrality. On the one hand, I'm not really interested in another title about young, inexperienced heroes. On the other hand, I enjoyed Heinberg's work on The O.C., I've heard good things here at CBR, and I generally like things involving the Avengers.

Young Avengers #9 was okay. The cover was a little cluttered looking, but the pencils were decent. The interior artwork was just average. The fight with the Super Skrull was too brief, but maybe there will be a longer fight at the start of next issue. The writing was good, but not good enough to hook me, or to even overcome the plain artwork. The $3.00 cover price is a dealbreaker for me. At that price, I expect above average artwork and writing, and I won't settle for less.
Huh. I like Cheung. It's not breathtaking, but's it's always above average to me. Oh well, to each their own. I get it pulled, and my store does a discount if you do that, so it's a little cheaper and I'm used to the prices anyway, as I've never bought a comic which cost less than £1.

[Shellhead]

...I've never bought a comic which cost less than £1.

Comics now cost 15 times as much as they did when I first started reading them. While my income has stayed ahead of the price increases, I now have a lot of overhead costs that I didn't have as a kid. So I have higher standards when it comes to comics. Especially since they are really kind of poor value when it comes to entertainment. I could spend $6.00 and 20 minutes on two comics, or I could buy a used PC game for $20 and play it for at least 20 hours.

[LtMarvel]

I don't have enough money/time to devote to two large superhero universes.

Marvel comics aren't good enough. Why? Mostly due to the lack of respect given to writers/story aspect. That and being to exploitive to the cash cows (everything "x" and Spider-Man). So I don't buy any Marvel Super-hero comics. Instead, I'm a DC guy. I've enjoyed, over the years, off-beat titles like Animal Man, Doom Patrol, The Question, Swamp Thing, Sandman, Y the Last Man, Captain Atom, Preacher, and Suicide Squad. Compare with the variety of X-this and That-X and so forth. (How many Wolverine vs. Hulk series have there been?)

And then there is the behavior of the publishers. Marvel crippled the industry by buying its own distributership, setting off the distibuter wars in which Diamond is the only one left (and eliminating great comic book companies like Kitchen Sink). Marvel was full participant in the variant covers gimmicks which also hurt the industry.

So I spend my super-hero money at DC. I spend other comicbook money on Usagi Yojimbo, Groo, Strangers in Paradise, Maze Agency, Flaming Carrot, and so forth.

And I lead a happy, well-rounded reading life.

Marvel-free.

[Rachel Grey]

I don't have enough money/time to devote to two large superhero universes.

Marvel comics aren't good enough. Why? Mostly due to the lack of respect given to writers/story aspect. That and being to exploitive to the cash cows (everything "x" and Spider-Man). So I don't buy any Marvel Super-hero comics. Instead, I'm a DC guy. I've enjoyed, over the years, off-beat titles like Animal Man, Doom Patrol, The Question, Swamp Thing, Sandman, Y the Last Man, Captain Atom, Preacher, and Suicide Squad. Compare with the variety of X-this and That-X and so forth. (How many Wolverine vs. Hulk series have there been?)

And then there is the behavior of the publishers. Marvel crippled the industry by buying its own distributership, setting off the distibuter wars in which Diamond is the only one left (and eliminating great comic book companies like Kitchen Sink). Marvel was full participant in the variant covers gimmicks which also hurt the industry.

So I spend my super-hero money at DC. I spend other comicbook money on Usagi Yojimbo, Groo, Strangers in Paradise, Maze Agency, Flaming Carrot, and so forth.

And I lead a happy, well-rounded reading life.

Marvel-free.

Dose anyone else find this ironic considering the username of the poster making this statement? :p

[Paradox]

Does Rachel Grey not get it?:

Dose anyone else find this ironic considering the username of the poster making this statement? :p

Since it's a reference to the Shazam Marvels...no, not in the least. ;)

[Alex]

I haven't read a superhero comic that takes place in the DCU, that i enjoyed for more then 2 months, in 3 years.
Now,i can name some terrefic comics from DC i love to pieces, but as far as the superhero thing goes, they started to lose me when Wally West got replaced by wally west from the future, and then when hal jordan was the spectre.
And by the time hal jordan was green lantern again, and dr light was a rapist, and deathstroke was getting his ass kicked by young justice, i couldn't read the books anymore.
Then they kept doing the event comics i hate.
And Marvel has the ultimate line, which i love.

[K'Nort]

Since it's a reference to the Shazam Marvels...no, not in the least. ;)

Well but that's what makes it ironic instead of hypocritical.

[Rabid Trekkie]

The love for all things D.C.

What? What did you think this thread was about?

Seriously, I am a Marvel Zombie, and while I'll be the first to admit that DC has put out some seriously hardcore books in the last six decades, and ruled the roost with some great books in the last three (all my favorite mainstream graphic novels are DC published), I just don't understand the DC mania over the continuity stuff.

I mean, the Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, Thor, The Hulk, Iron-Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man

vs/

Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Fish-Man, Wingsy, JLA, and Green Martian?

Someone explain it to me.

DC gave us Batman and so deserves all the accolades it can get. Unfortunately I've never been able to really get into comics, my Dad would never get any for me (he was worried that I wouldn't focus on God or something) and now that I have some money I end up buying more books instead of comics.