Green Arrow #57 *SPOILERS*

[Guts/Batman]

Green Arrow #57 "The SHOCKING conclusion":

Review

It's dying time, baby!!!
Deathstroke is talking to someone about what is going on in the Ollie household.

Dr. Light arrives at Ollie's house and basically makes all the arrows that Conner and Mia fire at him useless. Ollie arrives and shoots him.

Light tells Ollie that he went there for him and goes off with him and substantiating the walls so they are now trapped in. Conner looks down and Mia is bleeding badly from her side.

Light takes them to a roof where he explains to Ollie that revenge is not why he is doing what he is doing. Ollie calls him a sick bastard and Light responds by saying that, to some, makes him an honest man. "I do what most HUNGER for".

Light continues saying that he has raped before, "not just to satisfy carnal urges...but to send a message." The message: "You will be PUNISHED for standing in my way. Not die. HURT."

Light tells Ollie he has a message meanwhile Mia dies after a failed attempt by Black Bolt (I think, or is it Lighting? whatever) to bring her back from death.

And who does Ollie see in the screen but...Merlyn. Back to settle old scores.

Merlyn goes into how Green Arrow came into being and tells him how dangerous he is and how he will punished for it. Merlyn holds up a detonator and tells Ollie that "Black Bolt" and crew haven't made it out yet.

Presses it and the place blows up.

Thoughts

More shock value deaths!!! It's just what we need right now.

Wooohooo Winick, you certainly know how to tell a story without cheap, meaningless, shock value death.

This issue was even more hilariously bad than I thought it would be.

[Yoda]

Do you actually see Mia die? Or is it something Light shows Ollie?

[Cayman]

Did Dr. Light rape Mia? :confused:

Cay

[Guts/Batman]

Do you actually see Mia die? Or is it something Light shows Ollie?

No...

She is bleeding badly from her midsection and she dies midsentence. Black Bolt tries to reseitate her 3 times. All 3 times failing.

Based off of what Didio said about death and blood, she is dead. She is very dead...

When Merlyn blows the house up, he doesn't know she had been killed by Dr. Light. She got hit by one of Dr. Lights blasts.

[Guts/Batman]

Did Dr. Light rape Mia? :confused:

Cay

No, he didn't have time. He went there for Ollie. He was just playing around with Conner and Mia.

Now, based off of what Merlyn said at the end, I can't see how Conner and Black Bolt got out of there. They were sealed in...

Black Bolt couldn't get them out. Not at all.

[Yoda]

No...

She is bleeding badly from her midsection and she dies midsentence. Black Bolt tries to reseitate her 3 times. All 3 times failing.

Based off of what Didio said about death and blood, she is dead. She is very dead...

When Merlyn blows the house up, he doesn't know she had been killed by Dr. Light. She got hit by one of Dr. Lights blasts.
She'll be back I bet OYL, if she's actually dead. Winnick's still on GA and she's now his social relevance character.

[Cayman]

That sucks, I loved the character of Connor.

Cay

[Guts/Batman]

She'll be back I bet OYL, if she's actually dead. Winnick's still on GA and she's now his social relevance character.

So it's a pointless, meaningless death?

YAY!!!!

[Yoda]

So it's a pointless, meaningless death?

YAY!!!!
Now I don't have the issue in front of me yet, but from what i have read on other sites Mia is far from a confirmed DOA. She loses consciousness and her heart stops and we see Black Lighting trying to zap her back. Then the building goes all kabloie. I realize you despise Winnick, but i'd wait to see what actually happens next issue. I don't think Winnick would willingly kill off Mia, and this is sounds like the typical "shocking cliffhanger" where you think the people are dead but they are pulled from the brink of death. Similar to the one with Arsenal a few months back.

[Guts/Batman]

Now I don't have the issue in front of me yet, but from what i have read on other sites Mia is far from a confirmed DOA. She loses consciousness and her heart stops and we see Black Lighting trying to zap her back. Then the building goes all kabloie.

I don't hate Winick, I just hate his storytelling through violence. The ideas are fine (though I don't agree with them). However, the execution of those ideas is lacking.

He is not letting the characters tell and make the story. He is using violence to make the story.

And if she isn't dead...then Didio is complete full of crap. This is what I am basing this "DOA-ness" off of.

Not my words, Didio's words.

[Yoda]

I don't hate Winick, I just hate his storytelling through violence.

And if she isn't dead...then Didio is complete full of shit. This is what I am basing this "DOA-ness" off of.

Not my words, Didio's words.

I was in the audience at WW Boston when Didio said that and he was talking about deaths in Infinite Crisis #1, not every off panel "near death" in every DCU comic. And Didio himself admits that half of what he says is completely fabricated BS.

And if you despise "storytelling through violence" why are you reading superhero comics? Storytelling through violence has been their staple for the last 67 years.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And people thought Winick actually had a story telling idea when he gave Mia HIV. Now how silly does everyone look. He had no idea at all. It was a cheap ploy to boost sales and if this death is real then...well he won't have many readers left to piss away.

Green Arrow used to mean something. Now its just became a stupied book that tries to ape Flash and the others with little success. This book needs a creative change and then maybe I'll come back.

[Kolgrim]

More shock value deaths!!! It's just what we need right now.

Wooohooo Winick, you certainly know how to tell a story without cheap, meaningless, shock value death.

This issue was even more hilariously bad than I thought it would be.

You know I have to agree with you 100%. When I saw Merlyn blow up the building I thought the exact same thing you did...more death for the sake of shock value. I don't think that Winick understands that death does not always equal drama.

But I think the thing that pissed me off most about this issue was the "shocking conclusion" aspect of it. I mean, here we have a book with "The Shocking Conclusion" plastered on the cover, and when all is said and done, it doesn't happen! Can someone please tell me what exactly was concluded here?!? Connor, Mia, and Black Lightning MIGHT be dead, GA is STILL in the clutches of Dr. Light, and now Merlyn has been brought into the situation. I could be completely wrong here, but I just don't see a conclusion in all of this.

[Guts/Batman]

And if you despise "storytelling through violence" why are you reading superhero comics? Storytelling through violence has been their staple for the last 67 years.

I don't think Didio should be talking.

"Storytelling through violence" means to me "violence for the sake of violence." It has no purpose other than to move the story along, which is what the characters (via character) should be doing.

Winick doesn't allow his characters right now to tell the stories. He doesn't allow his characters to make the stories. In his stories, the characters are not making the stories.

The violence is.

He doesn't need to kill characters to make the story relevant. His stories are only relevant because of the violence in the books. IOW, who he is hurting/killing.

That's what his Batman is and that's what his Green Arrow is.

And I'm only reading Batman, GA and Outsiders because of a morbid fascination of how badly he's gonna write it.

I know, my expectations are high.

[Yoda]

You people act like it's the first time you have ever read a comic book where there's a cut away to a building blowing up with the heroes "trapped" inside. It almost guarantees both Black Lighting and Conner are not dead, and raises Mia's chances of survival about 50%.

But by all means, carry on with the usual Winnick dogpile.

[Guts/Batman]

I could be completely wrong here, but I just don't see a conclusion in all of this.

Neither do I.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You people act like it's the first time you have ever read a comic book where there's a cut away to a building blowing up with the heroes "trapped" inside. It almost guarantees both Black Lighting and Conner are not dead, and raises Mia's chances of survival about 50%.

But by all means, carry on with the usual Winnick dogpile.


Didn't he do this same scene 3 or 4 issues ago with a building exploding at the end of the issue as a suprise shock ? At this rate I fear for the houseing at Star City because with that many houses exploding...damn.

[Guts/Batman]

Didn't he do this same scene 3 or 4 issues ago with a building exploding at the end of the issue as a suprise shock ? At this rate I fear for the houseing at Star City because with that many houses exploding...damn.

Heh.

That's next issue.

[Yoda]

Didn't he do this same scene 3 or 4 issues ago with a building exploding at the end of the issue as a suprise shock ? At this rate I fear for the houseing at Star City because with that many houses exploding...damn.
Actually, from the solicits that's Feburary's issue "explosion after explosion rocks Star City."

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Actually, from the solicits that's Feburary's issue "explosion after explosion rocks Star City."


Man...I'm pretty happy I just read this in the stores. The fact he's ran the explosion deal once,twice and now he's going for 3 times isn't a good sign.


The 3 signs Winick has no clue on this series:

1. You write demon & monster stories 2 or 3 times in the span of a year !

2. You give a supporting charactor a disease so you can write an after school special on it.

3. You have nothing but things exploding for various issues. When that gets boring you base a whole story-arc on it later on !

[Kolgrim]

Actually, from the solicits that's Feburary's issue "explosion after explosion rocks Star City."

And then in March, Ollie becomes the mayor and vowes to bring all the heinous, treacherous, and malicious, explosions to an end. ;)

[Guts/Batman]

And then in March, Ollie becomes the mayor and vowes to bring all the heinous, treacherous, and malicious, explosions to an end. ;)

I'm actually looking forward to that.

Not in the way that Winick would want me to be though... :D

[Balac]

I'd like to point out that Mia is on the cover of the Feb. Teen Titans issue. So I kind of doubt she's dead. Not that I'd be shocked to see another young female character dying for cheep shock value but that does not look to be the case here. I hope.

[Guts/Batman]

I'd like to point out that Mia is on the cover of the Feb. Teen Titans issue. So I kind of doubt she's dead. Not that I'd be shocked to see another young female character dying for cheep shock value but that does not look to be the case here. I hope.

Just about every dead person is coming back as a zombie during Infinite Crisis so that's not a surprise at all...

I mean, "Death and Life have no meaning anymore." - Raven

[Balac]

Nope. After the whole zombie thing. Take a look here:
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4444
Issue #33.

Just about every dead person is coming back as a zombie during Infinite Crisis so that's not a surprise at all...

I mean, "Death and Life have no meaning anymore." - Raven

[Guts/Batman]

The chick in the red mask is Mia?

[Balac]

Last time I checked, yep.

The chick in the red mask is Mia?

[Guts/Batman]

Just found out about the delays on TT thanks to Liefield.

Plus, we don't know the timeline of the books yet.

[Kolgrim]

I'm actually looking forward to that.

Not in the way that Winick would want me to be though... :D

To be honest, I'm looking forward to seeing the first time GA tries to bust up a group of thugs and they shout "It's the Mayor, RUN!"

[Zero Hunter]

I love hearing people bitch like this. If you think anyone died in the explosion you need to read more comics. That is the oldest cliffhanger in the book. None of them are dead. For the record I am enjoying Green Arrow and thought the current story was a fun read.

[Guts/Batman]

But they literally had nowhere to go.

Yay!!! Another Deus Ex Machina.

Deus ex machinas are just another symptom of bad writing and should be avoided at all costs.

[Paul Newell]

Just found out about the delays on TT thanks to Liefield.

Plus, we don't know the timeline of the books yet.
She's on the covers for #31 and #33 which all happen during Infinite Crisis. For her to actually die, then the Green Arrow arc needs to happen OYL....Which it doesn't.

And BTW, it's Black Lightning. Black Bolt is a Marvel character. :)

[PanzerMega]

You people act like it's the first time you have ever read a comic book where there's a cut away to a building blowing up with the heroes "trapped" inside. It almost guarantees both Black Lighting and Conner are not dead, and raises Mia's chances of survival about 50%.

But by all means, carry on with the usual Winnick dogpile.

Hahaha I was about to post the exact same thing.

It's a cliffhanger...you'd think no one had ever read one before.

I didn't think the issue was too bad...definately weaker than the last few issues, but I'm still enjoying Winick's Green Arrow. The issue with Killer Frost and Mirror Master was great.

[Guts/Batman]

She's on the covers for #31 and #33 which all happen during Infinite Crisis. For her to actually die, then the Green Arrow arc needs to happen OYL....Which it doesn't.

And BTW, it's Black Lightning. Black Bolt is a Marvel character. :)

I knew it was Black something.

Point taken.

Still an icky situation.

Plus there's more "HTF did he do that?" Dr. Light shinanigans.

[PanzerMega]

But they literally had nowhere to go.

Yay!!! Another Deus Ex Machina.

Deus ex machinas are just another symptom of bad writing and should be avoided at all costs.

Wait and see until next issue.

Perhaps there's a clue in the current issue as to how they escaped.

Or maybe Supergirl flew by at the last minute to save them.

Or the villains didn't really blow up the building, and were just screwing with Ollie.

If the heroes escape, it may not neccessarily be a deus ex machina. If Connor uses his new experimental "teleportation arrow" that he just developed, then yeah, that's one.

[Guts/Batman]

Wait and see until next issue.

Perhaps there's a clue in the current issue as to how they escaped.

Or the villains didn't really blow up the building, and were just screwing with Ollie.

If the heroes escape, it may not neccessarily be a deus ex machina. If Connor uses his new experimental "teleportation arrow" that he just developed, then yeah, that's one.

You mean the blue arrow in Mia's bag in TT this week?

The walls were melted, no doors opened and Black Lightening could do anything since Light "substantiated" the whole of the inside. There's nowhere to go.

This requires a deus ex machina or heavy, heavy, heavy PIS.

God, I hate "wait and see." I've been "wait and seeing" for monthes. I'm sick of it.

[PanzerMega]

Actually, it makes me look forward to the next issue to find out what happened.

My only problem is that the cover says "SHOCKING CONCLUSION" or something, but then the story is continued. Not a big deal to me, since I'm buying the next issue anyway, but who edits this stuff?

[palaeomerus]

Is the blue Arrow maybe Zatanna? She gets them out revives Mia and RE-MIND RAPES Light only with a little extra this time? Seems like there would be some symmetry there. "Yeah I screwed with your mind and I'm GLAD I DID IT. And this time I'm gonna REALLY screw it up. You're gonna slobber more than Hector Hammond in GL's book. ANY LAST THOUGHTS PIG!? I'm Goddamned Zatanna ya retard! "

Light: " Not like this! Not like this!"

Or GL could spring some wrist spikes and eat Light and Merlyn starting with the head...

[Guts/Batman]

Actually, it makes me look forward to the next issue to find out what happened.

My only problem is that the cover says "SHOCKING CONCLUSION" or something, but then the story is continued. Not a big deal to me, since I'm buying the next issue anyway, but who edits this stuff?

Don't get me wrong, I wanna know what happens to.

I just can't keep my eyes off the trainwreck. :D

[Sean Walsh]

Newsrama interviews Judd Winick today (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=52626) regarding Green Arrow One Year Later, and it concludes with this....

“As of issue #60, Green Arrow is the only hero in town with a bow and arrows. All will be revealed.”

Given what happened in the most recent issue, perhaps things ain't look up for these 2...?

[Indefatigable]

They probably just leave.

[Viking Bastard]

Personally I really like the whole Arrow Family dynamic, so I hope not.

[Young Avenger]

Maybe they just move away from Star City or retire.

[Yoda]

Mia could relocate to San Fran for Titans or maybe even NYC for the Titan's East. I don't think that DC is killing Mia, Connor maybe, but not Mia.

[Guts/Batman]

Given what happened in the most recent issue, perhaps things ain't look up for these 2...?

I'm think that Conner and Mia are pretty dead...

[jerrymcl89]

I'm think that Conner and Mia are pretty dead...

They are exactly as dead as Roy was when he was trapped in that bank that blew up a few months ago (also written by Winnick). If you need to debate whether someone is dead in a comic, they aren't. When they want the character to actually be dead (like Ted Kord), they don't leave much wiggle room.

[Calamas]

To me the only cliffhanger is that Mia is still dying. The explosion left me thinking, “That’s supposed to be a cliffhanger?” Black Lightning has a forcefield. Oh, he hasn’t used it in years and it wasn’t shaped like a bubble but rather surrounded his body like an aura; yet so what. Continuity no longer matters.

It wasn’t the bad ending, the lie on the cover, or the poor storytelling that bothered me here. I have to admit that I didn’t like Doctor Light’s monologue on rape. And I’m one of those who had no problem with that aspect of Identity Crisis. I see the point of those that were offended, but for me it was a small part of a larger story. And that story, while steeped in the history of DC superhero adventures, was not an adventure. Identity Crisis was drama. And, most importantly, Sue’s rape was generally off-panel and was never directly referenced. This was different. This immediately jumped off the page as out of place. And there are very few things that I find out of bounds. A serious real-world matter expounded upon with glee by a cardboard villain is one of them. A reaction that surprised me, I assure you. But Winnick’s superhero work, here in Green Arrow and elsewhere, is action first, everything else second. I know Winnick has been given permission to be more “adult” in his comics, but this just did not belong.

With this issue I’m dropping this comic. I’ll probably revisit that decision with #60, and depending on how it reads I’ll choose accordingly. In the meantime, for the first time in my life, I feel like a prude.

[converge241]

And then in March, Ollie becomes the mayor and vowes to bring all the heinous, treacherous, and malicious, explosions to an end. ;)

haha

"its One Year Later..are you ready for Green Arrow, Mayor, and the Bomb Squad?"

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Newsrama interviews Judd Winick today (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=52626) regarding Green Arrow One Year Later, and it concludes with this....



Given what happened in the most recent issue, perhaps things ain't look up for these 2...?


Winick should ask himself " Who will be left reading this book when I piss all over everyones charactors ! "

[Guts/Batman]

They are exactly as dead as Roy was when he was trapped in that bank that blew up a few months ago (also written by Winnick). If you need to debate whether someone is dead in a comic, they aren't. When they want the character to actually be dead (like Ted Kord), they don't leave much wiggle room.

They certainly left some wiggle room for Spoiler...

And let mey state for the record, I don't follow authors (now though I think I will after this hullaballoo) I follow characters so that means I will stick with the books through thick and thin unless the character really pisses me off.

And this book hasn't pissed me off to that level yet.