Brokeback Mountain [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

artemisboy

12-08-2005, 02:23 PM

You guys have GOT to read this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10342237/

- Peter

Waffles

12-08-2005, 02:46 PM

I get it. He's being funny. Har. Har. <--- That's me laughing at his played out "I'm straight so anything gay makes me feel akward. Did I mention I'm straight?" humor.

Not sure why anyone would need an excuse to go see an Ang Lee flick (regardless of your feelings on the Hulk).

cactusmaac

12-08-2005, 02:57 PM

Do they eat pudding?

artemisboy

12-08-2005, 03:09 PM

I'm planning on seeing this though I have a strange feeling that it's gonna be yet another gay movie that completely puts the female characters on the screen through the emotionally unnecessary wringer. It's part of many typical gay movies:

"The confused gay guy wants to feel accepted by those around him so he gets married/hooks-up with a woman and possibly has a child with her. Later he realizes that he just can't live a lie anymore so he leaves his wife/girlfriend to be with his gay love."

The movies this happens in that I can think of (though I'm SURE there are more) are:

Torch Song Trilogy
Making Love
Far From Heaven
Hollow Reed
Edge of Seventeen
Maurice
Angels In America
Wilde

No matter what movie it happens in, I always feel sorry for the wife. They always get the short end of the stick.

- Peter

tangentman

12-08-2005, 04:22 PM

bfrank

12-08-2005, 04:28 PM

You guys have GOT to read this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10342237/

- Peter
I hadn't heard a thing about this movie prior to reading this article, but I can't be the only one laughing at the title, given the subject matter....

Loren

12-08-2005, 04:33 PM

Do they eat pudding?

That pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

Pinball

12-08-2005, 04:42 PM

Me, i'm just waiting for you guys to compare it to the Rawhide Kid mini...

artemisboy

12-08-2005, 05:16 PM

If you sympathize that much with the plights of fictional women, imagine how real women must feel when it happens to them. I haven't seen the movie, but I wonder if the real tragedy will be one (or both) of the characters choosing to continue living a lie?

Sadly, not all those movies mentioned are fictional. In the case of Wilde, it is fact. And yes, I do sympathize with "real" women in that situation. I've sadly seen it happen before my very eyes with people I've known. Some eventually left their wives/girlfriends and some are still with them. In both scenerios, the women are completely miserable. Yet another darkside to living in the closet.

- Peter

K'Nort

12-08-2005, 06:33 PM

I read the short story back in 1998. The women were pretty minor. I would expect the movie to change a lot of that, however.

The link isn't cooperating, sadly.

DMike

12-08-2005, 06:36 PM

Do they eat pudding?

*not making dirty joke, not making dirty joke, not making dirty joke...*

Mia

12-09-2005, 11:01 AM

If you sympathize that much with the plights of fictional women, imagine how real women must feel when it happens to them. I haven't seen the movie, but I wonder if the real tragedy will be one (or both) of the characters choosing to continue living a lie?

From one review I read, apparently yes. One of the characters ends up regretting the choice he made.

Cyke

12-09-2005, 11:08 AM

Great article :)

Mia

12-09-2005, 11:14 AM

No matter what movie it happens in, I always feel sorry for the wife. They always get the short end of the stick.

- Peter

Peter that's very big of you to have said. Shows integrity.

That kind of behaviour just seems to denote a lack of integrity to me. If they were straight they would probably mess around on their wives too. I know I had no sympathy whatsoever after seeing 'Wilde' apart from his infedelity. Wilde made many foolish choices.

I know that there are gay men who have stayed in marriages. But they a) either treat their wives well and/or b) are faithful.

I am surprised (and disapointed) that the majority of the movie (129 out 130 minutes) is relatively chaste. I thought they were going to be braver.

Cyke

12-09-2005, 12:02 PM

Peter that's very big of you to have said. Shows integrity.

That kind of behaviour just seems to denote a lack of integrity to me. If they were straight they would probably mess around on their wives too. I know I had no sympathy whatsoever after seeing 'Wilde' apart from his infedelity. Wilde made many foolish choices.

I know that there are gay men who have stayed in marriages. But they a) either treat their wives well and/or b) are faithful.

I am surprised (and disapointed) that the majority of the movie (129 out 130 minutes) is relatively chaste. I thought they were going to be braver.

Well, the article said 1 min. of making out. It doesn't say anything about, oh, say, humping. (well, somebody had to say it)

I remember there was a rather vivid description in the short story about the hotel room after the cowboys reunited, reignited their love, and went to a motel room to do the deed. The way the author described the scene after they were done made me feel as if I didn't want to be there :)

Jared

12-09-2005, 02:46 PM

Tip Number 6 sound interesting. Not enough to counteract the effect ofr cowboys making out though.

BTW, did anyone else assume from the hype for the movie that it was set in the Old West? I realize there still people called cowboys today, and certainly were in the 60s, but in my mind, a "cowboy movie" denotes horses, not pickup trucks.

xnef1025

12-09-2005, 02:53 PM

Eh, fun article, but I call foul. The Boondocks has been running 'Brokeback' related strips for the past week. :)

Ontir

12-09-2005, 06:47 PM

"The confused gay guy wants to feel accepted by those around him so he gets married/hooks-up with a woman and possibly has a child with her. Later he realizes that he just can't live a lie anymore so he leaves his wife/girlfriend to be with his gay love."

No matter what movie it happens in, I always feel sorry for the wife. They always get the short end of the stick.

- Peter

I saw this film (& got to meet Ang Lee) about a month ago, and I assure you, there are more than enough short sticks to go around!

artemisboy

12-13-2005, 09:58 AM

Well, I'm hoping to see this flick this coming weekend so I'm sure I'll agree with you.

- Peter

The Mirrorball Man

12-13-2005, 10:01 AM

I'm planning on seeing this though I have a strange feeling that it's gonna be yet another gay movie that completely puts the female characters on the screen through the emotionally unnecessary wringer. It's part of many typical gay movies
I'm sure it is, but isn't this something that happens in every movie that has a love triangle of some kind?

Forefinger

12-13-2005, 12:37 PM

This movie features Ann Hathaway naked. I'll see it at some point.

hugh45

12-14-2005, 06:33 AM

The Dosadi Experiment

12-14-2005, 06:39 AM

I was wondering w/the movie release of Brokeback Mountain,would you
consider it as a date movie? This a different type of movie and usually
when people go dating to a romantic movie is to end up in a particular
*cough cough* outcome.(PLEASE! PLEASE! THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS
TOPIC,MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IF YOU WANT THAT :evilangry )

I don't want to make a different thread... you make baby Jesus cry, and baby Jesus never went on a heterosexual date to the cinema, so going on heterosexual dates to movies is un-christian!

Other than that... Jake had a body-double, Heath Ledger has a small one, it's the perfect date-flick, your date will be heartbroken that two male heart-throbs are having hot gay sex and are hung like shrimps, and she'll flee to you for comfort.

oh lest I forget...

...when you get home, preferably together, you can both read the bible... and churn butter and milk the cows, but mostly read from the bible.

biblebiblebiblebibleJesusbiblebiblebiblebiblebible biblebiblebiblebiblebibleGodbible
biblebiblebiblewholesomeheterolovemakingbiblebible bible.

it's not gibberish it's a mantra, a very christian mantra even.

Dom

12-14-2005, 07:31 AM

Eh.

Look at it this way, either of the guys in tha movie will get her all hot and bothered.

But once it's over, they won't be around and you will.

west3man

12-14-2005, 07:38 AM

I don't know much of anything about this movie, but if what I've guessed is accurate, I'd consider it... if I still did the date thing. As long as the person I was dating was receptive, it'd be all good.

It'd definitely give us something to talk about.

Spackling Compound

12-14-2005, 07:49 AM

Seems like a chick flick to me anyway. Sure. Date movie.

Does anyone remember "My Beautiful Launderette"? Seems that hot gay movies of yore have been all but forgotten.

As a matter of fact, if the date is any way a success, ANY movie will be forgotten :D.

Tom

12-14-2005, 08:01 AM

Yeah, I think so. This is not a movie for gay people. It's a gay movie for straight people.

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 09:20 AM

Yeah, I think so. This is not a movie for gay people. It's a gay movie for straight people.
Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?

i_mmmchocolate

12-14-2005, 09:26 AM

Actually, I've heard some pretty good reviews about this movie. Apparently it's not just about two gay men- there are other /themes in it.

Then again, I'm not too big on dramas. I much prefer comedies, dramadies, Sci Fi/Fantasy.

If it were a comedy about two gay wizards, maybe.

Ed Cunard

12-14-2005, 09:27 AM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?

When Mary Met Sally.

Wait, no.

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 09:33 AM

When Mary Met Sally.

Wait, no.
I'm guessing Robocop. But that was really more of a completly sex-neutral movie. To the point of having at least two neuterings I can think of off the top of my head. Was there a third?

Valmore

12-14-2005, 09:35 AM

I'm guessing Robocop. But that was really more of a completly sex-neutral movie. To the point of having at least two neuterings I can think of off the top of my head. Was there a third?

Kevin Smith would say one of those 1980's John Hughes films like "Sixteen Candles" or "Pretty in Pink." But that's Kevin Smith for ya.

Spackling Compound

12-14-2005, 09:37 AM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/filmnotes/images3/spartacus02.jpg

Tom

12-14-2005, 09:42 AM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?
Hmmmm.

None of them?

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 09:47 AM

Hmmmm.

None of them?
Because there are no good straight movies, or because the straight movies that are good for gays are actually gay movies? Because right now, I'm thinking about the homoerotic fun-fest that was the Thomas Jane Punisher movie. If they fit one more blue light-tinged shot of Jane brooding shirtless while drinking, and occasionally playing grabass with Kevin Nash, I think it could have qualified completly.

traxler

12-14-2005, 10:04 AM

Because there are no good straight movies, or because the straight movies that are good for gays are actually gay movies? Because right now, I'm thinking about the homoerotic fun-fest that was the Thomas Jane Punisher movie. If they fit one more blue light-tinged shot of Jane brooding shirtless while drinking, and occasionally playing grabass with Kevin Nash, I think it could have qualified completly.
And what a pile of poo it was.
Also in some way anti-erotic.
Anyhoo as Tom says, it just doesn't work the other way around,
and for the simple reason that while we live most of our lives in a hetro
world you hardly ever live in the gay world.

I'd recommend "Breakback" for a straight date.
Unless you tend to cry at sad movies.
That would REALLY blow it.

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 10:05 AM

I mentioned this before, but I won't pass up seeing this. Ann Hathaway gets naked in it, so if my wife wanted to watch it, I'd watch it. Hell, it's already been mentioned in many places about Oscars and stuff, so it's probably pretty good. I may get it on Netflix at some point.
Gay people and storylines don't turn me off to a movie or other form of entertainment, but I don't go looking to see that sort of thing. I enjoy watching Six Feet Under, and that has a lot of homosexual action in it.

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 10:10 AM

It'd probably be better if they weren't so damn pretty. Anyone see the SNL spoof with Baldwin where they were prospectors?

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 10:12 AM

Hmmmm.

None of them?
I'm going with Troy.

You had the cute brunette, Orlando Jones.
The blonde bombshell, Brad Pitt.

K'Nort

12-14-2005, 10:12 AM

I wouldn't consider it a good date movie because it's so damn sad. But some people like that.

Caveat -- The original short story, which I read several years ago but it stuck pretty vividly, was insanely sad. No idea how much they changed for the film.

traxler

12-14-2005, 10:14 AM

It'd probably be better if they weren't so damn pretty.
How would that make it better? How?
Do you understand nothing of tragedy?

Or do you just mean it would make you feel better?
I'm confuuuused. :confused:

K'Nort

12-14-2005, 10:15 AM

How would that make it better? How?
Do you understand nothing of tragedy?

Or do you just mean it would make you feel better?
I'm confuuuused. :confused:

Well it's certainly harder to feel sorry for pretty people.

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 10:18 AM

How would that make it better? How?
Do you understand nothing of tragedy?

Or do you just mean it would make you feel better?
I'm confuuuused. :confused:
Mostly, I just liked the SNL sketch. Prospectors are funny.

traxler

12-14-2005, 10:20 AM

Well it's certainly harder to feel sorry for pretty people.
You know that is not true.
You know it in your heart.
You are guilty of repeating one of those social lies,
like all good deeds have theiir own reward, etc.

We might not like it, we might even try to fight it,
but we empathise with the good-looking.
Tell it like it is.

traxler

12-14-2005, 10:21 AM

Mostly, I just liked the SNL sketch. Prospectors are funny.
We get it about 1 year late here,
so it won't even make sense when it arrives. :mad:

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 10:24 AM

We get it about 1 year late here,
so it won't even make sense when it arrives. :mad:
Does grizzly prospectors making with the man-love need context?

traxler

12-14-2005, 10:25 AM

Does grizzly prospectors making with the man-love need context?
I'll let you know in a year's time!

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 10:26 AM

Now I'm all hung up on my grammar. It should be do grizzly prospectors, except it's referring to the skit as a whole, so it would be does. Blech. This is all Arrjay's fault.

Samurai

12-14-2005, 10:27 AM

Heck no.

I'd take her to see King Kong right now.

Buzz Dixon

12-14-2005, 11:35 AM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?
GLADIATOR.

Bouncing Boy

12-14-2005, 12:18 PM

I'm going with Troy.

You had the cute brunette, Orlando Jones.
The blonde bombshell, Brad Pitt.

I think you mean Orlando Bloom
http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/7/730.jpg

rather than Orlando Jones
http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/5182_ev094_thumb.jpg

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 12:40 PM

I think you mean Orlando Bloom
http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/7/730.jpg

rather than Orlando Jones
http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/5182_ev094_thumb.jpg
Yup. My bad, dawg.

Spackling Compound

12-14-2005, 12:49 PM

I think you mean Orlando Bloom
http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/7/730.jpg

rather than Orlando Jones
http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/5182_ev094_thumb.jpg
I was thinking more of Tony Orlando. Guess we see what we want to see ;)

http://www.wma.com/tony_orlando/imgs/Tony_Orlando_main.jpg

artemisboy

12-14-2005, 12:53 PM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?

My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

- Peter

KenK

12-14-2005, 12:54 PM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?

Any Given Sunday? The locker room scenes are a total sausagefest.

artemisboy

12-14-2005, 12:58 PM

How would that make it better? How?
Do you understand nothing of tragedy?

Or do you just mean it would make you feel better?
I'm confuuuused. :confused:

It's kind of like the concept of having hot looking straight guys in straight porn. They are few and far between and/or not sold as superstars because straight men are afraid of getting turned on while there's a hot looking guy in the scene. Hence, we have Ron Jeremy as one of the most well known straight porn stars or "old man" Randy West. Actually, I'm kind of surprised that hot Rocco Siffredi is so popular in straight porn due to his good looks.

- Peter

KenK

12-14-2005, 01:12 PM

It's kind of like the concept of having hot looking straight guys in straight porn. They are few and far between and/or not sold as superstars because straight men are afraid of getting turned on while there's a hot looking guy in the scene. Hence, we have Ron Jeremy as one of the most well known straight porn stars or "old man" Randy West. Actually, I'm kind of surprised that hot Rocco Siffredi is so popular in straight porn due to his good looks.

- Peter

Well, some male porno stars would argue that it's not about looking good, so much as it is about staying in shape as a requirement for pulling off some of those "positions". Strong abdominals to maintain balance. Strom lats and ceps for cradling chicks and whatnot. Ron Jeremy can only do so much. He can't do the stuff someone like, say, Lex Steele can do. You need to be in peak physical condition to hold a chick weighing anywhere from 100 to 120 pounds while doin' her, and she's not distributing her weight on anything other than you.

titanfan

12-14-2005, 01:17 PM

Then what's a good straight movie for gay people?

Charlie's Angels
Wonder Woman
Gladiator
Troy/Alexander
X-Men
Swimfan
The Passion of Christ (Don't knock it until you've tried it, it's totally homo-erotic)

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 01:38 PM

Charlie's Angels
Wonder Woman
Gladiator
Troy/Alexander
X-Men
Swimfan
The Passion of Christ (Don't knock it until you've tried it, it's totally homo-erotic)
X-Men wasn't a straight movie. Well, maybe the first one, but definitely not the second.

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 01:41 PM

X-Men wasn't a straight movie. Well, maybe the first one, but definitely not the second.
What's gay about the X-Men movies?

Alex

12-14-2005, 01:52 PM

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 02:43 PM

What's gay about the X-Men movies?
It's a long list. Let's just say the subtext was pretty thick. Singer was using mutant as a metaphor for homosexuality. Which makes sense, given that mutants generally are used as a metaphor for minorities, and the minority that Singer is is gay. Which also further explains why Magneto is definitely expressly Jewish in the film, as is Singer. And watch the second movie, Maggie is one big Jewish flamer. Even more than Pyro. Who is gay.

Alex

12-14-2005, 02:45 PM

It's a long list. Let's just say the subtext was pretty thick. Singer was using mutant as a metaphor for homosexuality. Which makes sense, given that mutants generally are used as a metaphor for minorities, and the minority that Singer is is gay. Which also further explains why Magneto is definitely expressly Jewish in the film, as is Singer. And watch the second movie, Maggie is one big Jewish flamer. Even more than Pyro. Who is gay.
Wolverine isn't gay though, and clearly he was the focus of the movie.
They even had a subplot about iceman wanting to bang his girlfriend.
And, if the movie was made in a different decade (Like when xmen was first written) you could replace gay with black, the core story is about the problems a minority faces, gay is the most telling example because gays are the least accepted minority these days.

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 02:57 PM

Wolverine isn't gay though, and clearly he was the focus of the movie.
They even had a subplot about iceman wanting to bang his girlfriend.
And, if the movie was made in a different decade (Like when xmen was first written) you could replace gay with black, the core story is about the problems a minority faces, gay is the most telling example because gays are the least accepted minority these days.
They've still got to cover up the movie in a veneer of straightness. Besides, while there's the whole thing with Bobbie wanting to bang his girlfriend, notice that it goes against their nature to actually do so. Causes them pain.

And Wolvie? Straight? With all the sexual tension between him and Cyclops? And while I sadly can't find a picture of the shirt he was wearing at the end of the second movie, this will have to do in it's stead.

http://www.castlereshka.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=7769

http://www.allabouthugh.com/images/oz_piano.jpg

Shellhead

12-14-2005, 03:00 PM

I think it is, due to my first reaction at the trailor.
It looked like a romance, and i generaly hate love movies, and replacing a chick with another guy isn't making me any more likely to want to see it.
So...yes,it's a date movie, because i have no desire tosee it.

You're mixing two different categories, date movie and chick flick. Date movie overlaps with chick flick. Chick flicks cover with subject matter that normally appeals only to women, like a ponderous historical period piece where the main plot point is a woman changing her mind about some guy. A date movie is usually more tolerable to a guy, because it can put his date in a more friendly mood, possibly resulting in good sex later in the evening.

Ian J.N.

12-14-2005, 03:23 PM

I would characterize a "date movie" as being light and breezy. Heavily dramatic movies, concerned with weighty social issues—aren't. It all depends, of course, on what you would consider a good date. Perhaps you, and your heterosexual companion, enjoy discussing the plight of the gay man, whilst sharing a sundae at the local malt shop. If such is the case, you would do well to add Brokeback Mountain to the itenary.

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 04:10 PM

It's a long list. Let's just say the subtext was pretty thick. Singer was using mutant as a metaphor for homosexuality. Which makes sense, given that mutants generally are used as a metaphor for minorities, and the minority that Singer is is gay. Which also further explains why Magneto is definitely expressly Jewish in the film, as is Singer. And watch the second movie, Maggie is one big Jewish flamer. Even more than Pyro. Who is gay.
I knew that Singer was gay, and Magneto did act a bit fruity, but that was about it. I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention to the gayness with all the powers and hot chicks and shit.

Alex

12-14-2005, 04:24 PM

You're mixing two different categories, date movie and chick flick. Date movie overlaps with chick flick. Chick flicks cover with subject matter that normally appeals only to women, like a ponderous historical period piece where the main plot point is a woman changing her mind about some guy. A date movie is usually more tolerable to a guy, because it can put his date in a more friendly mood, possibly resulting in good sex later in the evening.
But i'm already dating a girl, so i don't need a movie to get sex.
therefor, i can combine the two under my particular circumstances.
And watching two guys make out wouldn't get me laid, and in my current situation, would actually lessen my chances.
Because if theres on thing that puts me out of the mood, it's gay sex.

Shellhead

12-14-2005, 04:40 PM

But i'm already dating a girl, so i don't need a movie to get sex.
therefor, i can combine the two under my particular circumstances.
And watching two guys make out wouldn't get me laid, and in my current situation, would actually lessen my chances.
Because if theres on thing that puts me out of the mood, it's gay sex.

I guess I tend to date high-maintenance women, because I often need to go along with what they want to do, so that I still get to *do* what I want to do sometimes.

Nick Kal

12-14-2005, 04:49 PM

Yeah.. totally. It's like a love story... so why not?

Peter

12-14-2005, 05:05 PM

I was planning to see this movie, but now after hearing how depressing and sad it is, I think I might pass. Do they both die, or something like that? Feel free to spoil me.

And I think the straight movies /= gay entertainment thesis is bull. I love straight romance movies. Provided they're written and acted well, obviously, but a good love story is a good love story, at the end of the day.

Edit -- Okay, after a quick foray into http://www.themoviespoiler.com/, I have to agree -- damn, that *is* depressing. I'll go for the first half-an-hour, and leave after that. That could work.

artemisboy

12-14-2005, 05:13 PM

What's gay about the X-Men movies?

Hugh Jackman without a shirt acting all butch. :D

- Peter

Gary DJ

12-14-2005, 06:57 PM

Is romanticizing a spouse who cheats, but with only one other person every so often, what your date likes? Maybe warm her up to the idea with Same Time, Next Year.

"This looks like a job for Wonder Pig!"--Ms. PiggyMs. Piggy? When did that happen?

Shellhead

12-14-2005, 07:33 PM

Yeah.. totally. It's like a love story... so why not?

Women might tend to identify with the female characters, like the wives that these guys are cheating on.

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 07:35 PM

Hugh Jackman without a shirt acting all butch. :D

- Peter
Sooo.....he's "acting" butch?

Shellhead

12-14-2005, 07:40 PM

Sooo.....he's "acting" butch?

It's possible. Jackman gets paid big bucks to, you know, act.

StoneGold

12-14-2005, 07:44 PM

I knew that Singer was gay, and Magneto did act a bit fruity, but that was about it. I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention to the gayness with all the powers and hot chicks and shit.
The big alarm trigger for me was in the commercials where they did the bit with Bobby's mom asking if he could just stop being a mutant. That's an old line, but usually you replace mutant with gay. But seriously, you look at it with a critical eye, the movie is thick with homosexual subtext.

As opposed to the out and out homoeroticism of the Punisher. He sits around his apartment, shirtless, cleaning guns and drinking, and he doesn't bang Stamos' ex?

Forefinger

12-14-2005, 07:51 PM

The big alarm trigger for me was in the commercials where they did the bit with Bobby's mom asking if he could just stop being a mutant. That's an old line, but usually you replace mutant with gay. But seriously, you look at it with a critical eye, the movie is thick with homosexual subtext.
As opposed to the out and out homoeroticism of the Punisher. He sits around his apartment, shirtless, cleaning guns and drinking, and he doesn't bang Stamos' ex?
Thanks guys. You have all opened my eyes and at the same time ruined every movie, ever, for me.

Anthrax and RunDMC kicked ass on "Bring the Noise".

boolean

12-15-2005, 03:26 AM

The big alarm trigger for me was in the commercials where they did the bit with Bobby's mom asking if he could just stop being a mutant. That's an old line, but usually you replace mutant with gay. But seriously, you look at it with a critical eye, the movie is thick with homosexual subtext.

As opposed to the out and out homoeroticism of the Punisher. He sits around his apartment, shirtless, cleaning guns and drinking, and he doesn't bang Stamos' ex?

This still doesn't beat naked, oily Dolph from the first Punisher movie.
http://www.gmrmedia.com/dolph/dolph-in/punisher/CAP069.JPG

lboinyamouf4sho

12-15-2005, 03:34 AM

i thought the movie was about the dallas cowboys??

Helena

12-15-2005, 04:38 AM

I was wondering w/the movie release of Brokeback Mountain,would you
consider it as a date movie? This a different type of movie and usually
when people go dating to a romantic movie is to end up in a particular
*cough cough* outcome.(PLEASE! PLEASE! THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS
TOPIC,MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IF YOU WANT THAT :evilangry )

Speaking as a hetrosexual female (and Jesus Freak), I'd have to say that Brokeback Mountain is a perfect date movie. You see women get turned on by two men going at it the same way that straight men get turned on by two women going at it (Wild Things anyone?). So the thought of hunky Heath Ledger and cute Jake Gyllenhall gettin' busy will have your lady in a tizzy.

That being said you hetro males might want to wait until it comes on out DVD so that you can capitalize on the bedroom (or couch) being in close proximity.

You know Brokeback mountain might just be responsible in a spike in birth rates.

Good luck gentlemen! Have at thee!

Peter

12-15-2005, 05:44 AM

This still doesn't beat naked, oily Dolph from the first Punisher movie.

More evidence that film does something really, really weird to characters.

Because in the comics, Punisher is about the *least* homoerotic character you can possibly *get*.

And yet, with *two* films (one would've been forgivable), that's a definite trend.

:eek:

Dreadstar

12-15-2005, 08:27 AM

Sounds like a chick-flick to me.

Hell, I broke up with a gal after she dragged me to see The Bridges of Madison County.

traxler

12-15-2005, 08:31 AM

I broke up with a gal after she dragged me to see The Bridges of Madison County.
I'd say that was reasonable.

Shellhead

12-15-2005, 09:09 AM

Sounds like a chick-flick to me.

Hell, I broke up with a gal after she dragged me to see The Bridges of Madison County.

On our third date, a woman insisted that we rent The Bridges of Madison County. We ate some takeout food at my place while watching it, then I dozed off. She woke me up after the movie was over so we could have sex. I guess that means it was a pretty good movie.

artemisboy

12-15-2005, 09:26 AM

Ms. Piggy? When did that happen?

During Lynda Carter's appearance on The Muppet Show in the early 80s.

- Peter

artemisboy

12-15-2005, 09:29 AM

This still doesn't beat naked, oily Dolph from the first Punisher movie.

I tend to like Dolph in Showdown In Little Tokyo better. Get to see a little more of him there AND you have Brandon Lee making, not one, but TWO comments about how hung he is.

- Peter

Dreadstar

12-15-2005, 09:31 AM

On our third date, a woman insisted that we rent The Bridges of Madison County. We ate some takeout food at my place while watching it, then I dozed off. She woke me up after the movie was over so we could have sex. I guess that means it was a pretty good movie.

Perspective. You got a nap and sex out of it.

I had to watch the WHOLE DAMNED EXCRUTIATING thing and no sex was forthcoming.

Hell, I would have settled for the take-out food.

Deathstroke

12-15-2005, 11:33 AM

I don't see it as a date movie. I'd go see it in the theater, but not as "Hey Honey want to go see a movie tonight" kind of thing.

Forefinger

12-15-2005, 11:40 AM

On our third date, a woman insisted that we rent The Bridges of Madison County. We ate some takeout food at my place while watching it, then I dozed off. She woke me up after the movie was over so we could have sex. I guess that means it was a pretty good movie.
That is awesome. I only wish things like that would happen to me.

Shellhead

12-15-2005, 11:49 AM

That is awesome. I only wish things like that would happen to me.

It happened 8 years ago. I remember that night because things like that don't happen very often in my life.

Gary DJ

12-15-2005, 12:30 PM

During Lynda Carter's appearance on The Muppet Show in the early 80s.

- Peter

Non, non. Vous mal comprenez, mon ami. Not the source of the quote, but referring to her as Ms. Piggy, instead of Miss.

EDIT: Oh, they both happened in the same episode. I thought maybe Henson (or Disney) had decided Piggy needed a new prefix, and wanted to update her to the swingin' seventies.

artemisboy

12-15-2005, 01:00 PM

Ah. Just a guess on the name then.

- Peter

bfrank

12-15-2005, 01:14 PM

You know that is not true.
You know it in your heart.
You are guilty of repeating one of those social lies,
like all good deeds have theiir own reward, etc.

We might not like it, we might even try to fight it,
but we empathise with the good-looking.
Tell it like it is.
since when do you speak for all of us?

Tell it like it is.....

bfrank

12-15-2005, 01:17 PM

bfrank

12-15-2005, 01:19 PM

I knew that Singer was gay, and Magneto did act a bit fruity, but that was about it.

I'm, sorry, but Sir Ian, is a bit "fruity" in all his rolls....some how I think it's his nature...

Grant

12-15-2005, 01:53 PM

StoneGold

12-15-2005, 02:13 PM

you're reaching with that one....
And you're underreaching. Seriously, watch how Maggie acts in the first movie. Now watch how he acts in the second one. First movie he plays things, pardon the pun, but straight. Second movie, he's goddamn Dame Edna. And that's not even mentioning the rumors of what Mystique might change into when she's getting frisky with Maggie.

Throw in Stryker's kid's astral form being a little girl, Pyro's obvious jealousy that Iceman wasn't throwing attention his way (think about it, why would he want to go out with the girl whose touch kills you? Just hit on Jubilee), the bizarre moment Logan and Cyke seem to share in the X-Jet at the end... I'm not one to assume there's a homosexual agenda, but that movie had a homosexual agenda.

And again, furthering that theory, I dated Singer's cousin for a bit. She said that yeah, he's pretty much always bringing up the gay thing.

StoneGold

12-15-2005, 02:13 PM

hugh45

12-15-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh45
I was wondering w/the movie release of Brokeback Mountain,would you
consider it as a date movie? This a different type of movie and usually
when people go dating to a romantic movie is to end up in a particular
*cough cough* outcome.(PLEASE! PLEASE! THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS
TOPIC,MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IF YOU WANT THAT)

Why do my quotes end up so funny?

EDIT:It looks right now but....... :confused:

Shellhead

12-15-2005, 04:03 PM

Kind of on topic... I saw The Crying Game on a blind first date. My date was indeed a woman, but she was slightly taller than me (and I'm 6'1") and also somewhat heavier. I was very idealistic at that point in my life, and tried to see past her appearance to her inner beauty, so it was a long date. We went to the local Scottish Fest (but skipped the haggis), and the heavy rain forced me to share her umbrella. Then we went to a retro-style diner, followed by the movie. I even kissed her good night afterwards. But that movie traumatized me, and I never called her again. I guess I'm sorta shallow.

Grant

12-15-2005, 04:04 PM

Haw haw, Grant saw Brokeback! Grant's one of the gays!

Hey now I'm no queer. My boyfriend dragged me to see it.

Peter

12-15-2005, 04:57 PM

And you're underreaching. Seriously, watch how Maggie acts in the first movie. Now watch how he acts in the second one. First movie he plays things, pardon the pun, but straight. Second movie, he's goddamn Dame Edna. And that's not even mentioning the rumors of what Mystique might change into when she's getting frisky with Maggie.

"Dame Edna"?

Maybe it's all about context, but I remember watching the film only recently, and I gotta say, "the hell?"

Throw in Stryker's kid's astral form being a little girl

I really don't think that means anything.

Pyro's obvious jealousy that Iceman wasn't throwing attention his way (think about it, why would he want to go out with the girl whose touch kills you? Just hit on Jubilee)

Sorry dude, but he's right -- that's reaching. Seriously reaching.

the bizarre moment Logan and Cyke seem to share in the X-Jet at the end...

Because the woman they were both in love with had just died horribly?

That's a 'gay' subplot?

:confused:

StoneGold

12-15-2005, 05:08 PM

Look, if you looked at them all individually, it might not mean much. But you've got all these things added up in one movie.

xnef1025

12-15-2005, 05:14 PM

Look, if you looked at them all individually, it might not mean much. But you've got all these things added up in one movie.
I'm still not convinced. If Singer really was trying to inject such a thing, he did a horrible job of it because it seems most people missed it. Now Lord of the Rings..... there's some hilariously unintentional homosexual subtext there :D

tangentman

12-15-2005, 05:54 PM

Peter

12-15-2005, 11:12 PM

The only real gay subtext in X2 happened with Stryker's family (wanting Xavier to "cure" Jason of his mutant powers, bitter when it doesn't happen) and Bobby "coming out" as a mutant. "Can't you just try not being a mutant?" That was more gay than anything else cited by StoneGold.

I have to agree. I mean no disrespect StoneGold, but all the stuff you cited was just... not there at all. I mean the Pyro thing was totally left-field. And Cyke and Logan hugging because Jean had just 'died', I mean seriously, c'mon.

Arune Singh

12-16-2005, 12:42 AM

I have to agree. I mean no disrespect StoneGold, but all the stuff you cited was just... not there at all. I mean the Pyro thing was totally left-field. And Cyke and Logan hugging because Jean had just 'died', I mean seriously, c'mon.

Agreed. Hell, I'm straight and the only moment that made me look twice was Scott pleading to Xavier as he spoke Jean's words. I thought they were going to kiss.

But Gay Agenda? Seriously, I've met Singer and talked with him. The only agenda the man has is good storytelling.

Helena

12-16-2005, 04:42 AM

I don't see why not. I saw a lot more straight couples there when I saw it. The sex isn't all that graphic. You see more when the two leads are with their wives then with each other. It's basically a chick flick.

Yep, I read an interview with the producer, where he was asked if he was worried about the reaction of straight men and how it would sell to them. The producer responded that he wasn't worried about the reaction of straight men, since the movie is made for women.

Jared

12-16-2005, 10:56 AM

ou see women get turned on by two men going at it the same way that straight men get turned on by two women going at it (Wild Things anyone?).!

That's only the second time in my life I've heard such a thing from a straight woman. In my experience, it's the case is usually the oppossite of what you suggest. (Not that I go around quizzing women on what they think about two dudes making out, or anything...)

Jared

12-16-2005, 11:03 AM

Because in the comics, Punisher is about the *least* homoerotic character you can possibly *get*.

Guess you haven't read Wolverine #186.

Helena

12-16-2005, 01:31 PM

That's only the second time in my life I've heard such a thing from a straight woman. In my experience, it's the case is usually the oppossite of what you suggest. (Not that I go around quizzing women on what they think about two dudes making out, or anything...)

Sure. 51% of the audience for the US version of Queer as Folk consisted of straight women. It's not something that's talked about. But yeah, it's a big turn on for many women to watch (hunky) men getting it on.

Jared

12-16-2005, 01:41 PM

Forefinger

12-16-2005, 01:44 PM

It happened 8 years ago. I remember that night because things like that don't happen very often in my life.
I'm still gonna rent it, to see if I can pull that trick with my wife.....I need a nap and a blowjob.

lboinyamouf4sho

12-17-2005, 01:49 AM

you know how porn always takes popular films and makes x-rated versions of them?? this i think is the 1st time they took the story from a porno(gay)and made a big movie version of it.

Helena

12-17-2005, 08:30 AM

It's a bit of a stretch to assume that the 51% enjoyed the show mainly for it's sexual content. I'm sure some did, women also tend to love stories abour relationships that experience great difficulty, which I presume that show also had alot of. Hell, unless the show has no aspirations other than that of a soft core porno, then the audience *should* be made up of more than just those who get turned on by men with men.

I'm just quoting you what the producers and actors said. That 51% of the viewers of the show were (straight) women. One of the producers (forget which one) even said that straight men like to watch it with their wives and girlfriends because they tend to "get lucky" after viewing. I am sure that the stories were a big draw as well. But I am assuming that if it were the only draw they wouldn't have gone on to mention how much straight women were turned on by the men and the gay sex scenes. By the way I know a manager of a gay book store who also rents gay porn. And he told me a great deal of the renters of the gay movies are women.

ChrisII

12-17-2005, 10:35 AM

Funny thing is, Jackman apparentally lost the role of James Bond in "Casino Royale" because of his status as a gay icon thanks to that play he did.

Jared

12-17-2005, 10:36 AM

Ontir

12-17-2005, 12:41 PM

I don't know which women you, your Mom, or Ebert & Roeper know, but I know alot of straight women, who really get turned on watching two guys go at it - just like straight guys watching two women. I also know that it did turn into a factor in the make-up of the audience for Showtime's Queer as Folk.Straight women watched it, becuase it was a turn-on, and their husbands and boyfriends started watching it with them, because they knew they were going to get some afterwards.

Ontir

12-17-2005, 12:44 PM

The only real gay subtext in X2 happened with Stryker's family (wanting Xavier to "cure" Jason of his mutant powers, bitter when it doesn't happen) and Bobby "coming out" as a mutant. "Can't you just try not being a mutant?" That was more gay than anything else cited by StoneGold.

True enough. Singer used that sub-text, like he used Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X for the sub-text of Xavier and Magneto. In both cases, it worked beautifully, and created moving and impactful moments.

Justin D.

12-17-2005, 02:28 PM

This movie is compared to Titanic elsewhere, from the story design to the layout of the posters, and this was my reaction: See, I don't like Titanic and neither does my girlfriend. We laughed when we saw certain parts in the film, like the "CLANG" as people fell onto the pipes as the ship went into the water. While there are good parts, mostly, it's an overly melodramatic film that tries much too hard in some areas which just ends up making it funny. I wanted to see Brokeback Mountain until I heard the comparison to Titanic since I don't consider it to be "a truly great film". I'll probaly still see it, but I'm just wondering now if a lot critics are throwing praise for Brokeback Mountain being a good, romantic movie mainly because it's a film about homosexual love. Hopefully, they're not.

Also, as for the jokes about the title of the movie, I'm sure they'd still exist even if this movie was a straight love story. It's called Brokeback Mountain and it's a love story, for god's sake. Jokes should be expected.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-17-2005, 02:31 PM

There were alot of straight couples and single women at the showing I went too last night. Even a pair of elderly old ladies that sat next to me and my partner. It was standing room only.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-17-2005, 02:37 PM

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-17-2005, 03:53 PM

I saw this last night at the local 'arthouse' theatre. I think they had it on 4 or 5 screens out of 10. I know for a fact that 3 of the matinee showings were standing room only. This movie is going to do better than anyone believed it could.

For those of you that have read the novella as I had, this is a much more fleshed out story and characters. However, this does not ruin the basic story that Annie Proulx created. I think having Larry McMurty doing the script helped. If any man could write a cowboy beleivably it is him.

This is a 2 hour and 14 minute movie that chronicles the roughly 20 year relationship of two men who meet while herding sheep on Brokeback Mountain in Wyoming. They don't jump right into bed with each other. It is a slow build up to that first time. The sex is not graphic, no real body parts are shown but you have no doubt who is in what position. I get that out of the way so that I can move to say that it is almost a non issue in this movie. This isn't about sex, but about making connections with people that may or may not develop into more. Lonliness, desperation and alocohol have driven many a man into the arms of another. How easy they walked away from it later is what can define them for the rest of their lives. And these are two men who tried to walk away from each other and create the 'expected' life.

I won't use the terem Hollywood in this piece. This is an idependent film. The script sat on the proverbial shelf for years before someone seriously took it over. So I can't say Hollywood did anything right. Brokeback Mountain is an American version of British gay themed movies. Jack Twist and Ennis Del Mar are normal. Let me clarify- I mean normal compared to what is the popular conception of a gay man as seen by Hollywood. There are no over done drag queens, no hypersexual club hopping pretty boys, no fablously well off couple that can afford to take trips at the drop of hat. There isn't a Will, Grace or Jack in this movie. The people in this movie are the people you see walking down Main Street. They are ones that are standing next to you in the grocery store line. The ones who have kids and families. The ones that you never expect are gay. And that is what I mean by normal. These men and the other characters in the movie are for the most part, the type of people that make up most of America especially in the backwoods South and Midwest.

The story is marvelously handled by McMurty and his writing partner, who collaborates on all his scripts. I would not be suprised if it was McMurty who gave this story and its characters the down to earth, brutally real feeling. People, no matter the sexuality, want happy endings. That is not how life works. Happy endings are for fairy tales. But a movie about real life and the struggles that occur within it cannot have a guaranteed happy ending. And a movie that deals with the realtionship between two men is definitely not a gimme.

All stories have to have a 'villain', an antagonist that the 'heroes' must overcome. In this story, the antagonist is never shown. How can you show society as a villain? Wait, that's not true. Society is not the true villain of this piece. It is the preception of what a man must be that is the antagonist of this story. It definies the relationship between Jack and Ennis. It shapes their responses, actions and decisions. Yes, the movie ends sometime around the early 80s when the perceptions were beginning to change but in terms of our two main characters, it truly is too little, too late. Some choices cannot be undone.

Jack Twist is outgoing, funny, the kind of guy who probably got voted class clown. Jake Gyllenhall was a perfect choice for this part. He plays Jack to the hilt. A fun loving, rodeo obbessed American male who happens to have an attraction to men. The clincher is that he is pretty but not androgynous. He looks the guy who turns heads when he walks down the street but gives away nothing of his sexual identity. Everyone has at least seen this guy before in real life. Even if was just to watch him walk by.

Ennis Del Mar is the quiet, introverted male who has let his past experiences dictate the choices he makes in his adult life. And Heath ledger owns this part and the movie. He gives a performance that no one could have thought capable having seen his other movies. It is Ennis that lets his fear of what could happen is anyone finds out shape the course of the relationship. You could watch this movie in mute and know exactly what Heath was saying and feeling by the expressiveness of his face. I was honestly suprised that he was this good. This is definitely not his A Knight's Tale character.

While Anne Hathaway's character, Jack's wife, has a memorable scene during a phone conversation with Ennis, the tragedy of marriages built on lies has its best example in Michelle Williams. Her portrayal of a wife who knows her marriage may have never been anything but a cover makes you feel such empathy. Unless you have lived in an area of the country where marriage as a lie is preferrable to coming out then you may not fully appreciate the pain and building hatred that this woman feels for Ennis. If you have ever had a lover, who you knew had someone else adn felt powerless to do anything, then you can appreciate this marriage as well. The scene where she finally snaps had me cheering for her simply because Ennis deserved it.

Two other people involved with this movie also deserve mention. Both are behind the scenes people.

First is Ang Lee. While I liked Hulk, I could completely understand the almost biblical level fiasco that the movie turned out being. He is not a superhero director. This type of movie is his. He does character development and internal conflict better. He crafts this movie with an understanding of these characters and what they are feeling and experiencing that is rather suprising if you only know his work from Hulk.

Second, the cinematographer. Good God, the scenes in this movie are are worthy of a National Geographic special. Sweeping landscape shot. Towering mountains. Stunning images of forested mountainsides and lakes. I was speechless in several moments just taking in the background scenery. However, the most impressive shot involves a simple scene of Ennis backed by exploding fireworks.

Nothing I have said so far gives away anything in the ending and I will not do that. All I will say is that if you have connection to your emotions, or you can relate to these characters in any way, then you will have a teary eyed moment at the least. The last thirty minutes of the film are an emotional; barrage that in less capable hands would seem cheesy and forced. The actors and director handle those minutes admirably to continue showing the slow disenigration of a relationship.

Now does this movie deserve any awards? Yes. Best Director. Best Actor( although I think Supporting Actor might be better). Best Supportiong Actress. Best Script. Best Cinematography. All of those it more than deserves. But Best Picture? I'm not sure. True it is the best Gay Themed movie to be produced by America ever. But Best Picture Oscar or Golden Globe, I just can't say.

Go see this movie. Don't go just to 'support' it. Go to see a wonderfully crafted movie that gives a glimpse into what being gay in the American West, especially in the early 60s to early 80s, is more likely to be like.

Cayman

12-17-2005, 04:24 PM

Great review.

I thought the scene where Ennis visits Jack's parents was particularly powerful.

Cay

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-17-2005, 04:26 PM

Great review.

I thought the scene where Ennis visits Jack's parents was particularly powerful.

Cay

Yeah...that's where I started falling apart. But what about the phone conversation between Ennis and Jack's wife? Did the flash scene actually happen or was that just what Ennis thought actually happened?

Cayman

12-17-2005, 04:34 PM

Yeah...that's where I started falling apart. But what about the phone conversation between Ennis and Jack's wife? Did the flash scene actually happen or was that just what Ennis thought actually happened?

I'm not sure. Her story seemed a bit too freak-accident so I kind of assumed Ennis's vision of it was more likely what actually transpired.

Cay

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-17-2005, 04:35 PM

I'm not sure. Her story seemed a bit too freak-accident so I kind of assumed Ennis's vision of it was more likely what actually transpired.

Cay

As much as it bothers me, I have to agree. That's what I thought.

Nick Kal

12-18-2005, 02:01 AM

Peter

12-18-2005, 03:35 AM

Also, as for the jokes about the title of the movie, I'm sure they'd still exist even if this movie was a straight love story. It's called Brokeback Mountain and it's a love story, for god's sake. Jokes should be expected.

Having a spectacularly dirty mind, that actually didn't occur to me at all.

Must be gettin' old.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 12:47 PM

Jack was killed, like Ennis imagined. Remember when Ennis spoke about his dad bringing his brother and him to see that old man who was killed in the ditch because he lived with another man? Well Jack's dad says Jack moved into a cabin with another man to help the family tend to the farm... so it was a bit of foreshadowing... but more like the earlier story solidifies the fact that Jack Twist was killed.

JAck didn't move into the cabin. His dad said that Jack used to talk about Ennis and him coming to do that for years and then one year it became Jack and a ranch guy that would be doing it. All it had been was talk. First Ennis and then the other guy.

Nick Kal

12-18-2005, 01:42 PM

JAck didn't move into the cabin. His dad said that Jack used to talk about Ennis and him coming to do that for years and then one year it became Jack and a ranch guy that would be doing it. All it had been was talk. First Ennis and then the other guy.

Are you sure? Didn't Anna Faris' husband in the film divorce her and move in with Jack.. I could have sworn this brought up... somehow. Well, even if he didn't move in I'm sure him hitting on guys was definitely a major indicator to all the guys that he was gay and that led to him being killed. Regardless of what caused it, the beginning solidifies that Jack did die by being murdered.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 01:43 PM

Brokeback Mountain has made nearly 3.5 million in 2 weeks in only 69 theatres.

And 64 of them were only this weekend.

It made almost 2.5 million this weekend alone.

Super Hero Guy

12-18-2005, 01:44 PM

Who the hell thought it was a good idea to call a movie about gay men "brokeback"?

Nick Kal

12-18-2005, 01:45 PM

Brokeback Mountain has made nearly 3.5 million in 2 weeks in only 69 theatres.

And 64 of them were only this weekend.

It made almost 2.5 million this weekend alone.

I'm telling you it's the East Village in NY going to see that movie 4 times a day. :p

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 01:46 PM

Are you sure? Didn't Anna Faris' husband in the film divorce her and move in with Jack.. I could have sworn this brought up... somehow. Well, even if he didn't move in I'm sure him hitting on guys was definitely a major indicator to all the guys that he was gay and that led to him being killed. Regardless of what caused it, the beginning solidifies that Jack did die by being murdered.

Well by the end of the movie everyone knew about Jack and Ennis. So yeah I can beleive that he was dead. The little noise his wife kept making on the phone with Ennis was just perfect.

I am gonna see this movie again so if you are right about this and I missed it the first time then I will admit that I was wrong. I just think it was all talk because I don't think Jack had left his wife yet. Or if he had she was amazingly understandable for being left so he could live with another man.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 01:47 PM

I'm telling you it's the East Village in NY going to see that movie 4 times a day. :p

And the 5 out of ten screens it is playing on here in portland.

Ontir

12-18-2005, 01:47 PM

Yeah...that's where I started falling apart. But what about the phone conversation between Ennis and Jack's wife? Did the flash scene actually happen or was that just what Ennis thought actually happened?

Yes, that scene was devastating.

As to the second question, both. During the Q&A, Ang Lee said that he shot that, as intended in the story and the script, to be shown in its entirety, but it was too abrupt, and damaged the flow of the film. It also broke the narrative structure, so brief flashes of it were inserted as Ennis' greatest fear, meeting with Jack's wife lying about the events. I think though, that she wasn't lying to hurt Ennis, but to spare him the pain she was enduring.

To Justin Davis,

I would in no way, compare this film to Titanic!

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 01:48 PM

Who the hell thought it was a good idea to call a movie about gay men "brokeback"?

Annie Proulx. She wrote the story and titled the movie. Apparently she is not as dirty minded as most of us.:p

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 01:49 PM

Yes, that scene was devastating.

As to the second question, both. During the Q&A, Ang Lee said that he shot that, as intended in the story and the script, to be shown in its entirety, but it was too abrupt, and damaged the flow of the film. It also broke the narrative structure, so brief flashes of it were inserted as Ennis' greatest fear, meeting with Jack's wife lying about the events. I think though, that she wasn't lying to hurt Ennis, but to spare him the pain she was enduring.

I could see that. Or maybe telling the lie to herself as much to him because she didn't really want to admit what he had been doing.

Ontir

12-18-2005, 01:50 PM

All of it, I think.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 01:51 PM

All of it, I think.

Yeah. More than likely.

Nick Kal

12-18-2005, 02:04 PM

Absolutely! I'm thinking of buying the story and reading it.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-18-2005, 02:05 PM

Absolutely! I'm thinking of buying the story and reading it.

I read it a few years ago and then bought the new version that came out with the moivie poster cover. There's a lot of things that aren't in the story but it is still very good.

Justin D.

12-18-2005, 04:06 PM

To Justin Davis,

I would in no way, compare this film to Titanic!

Hey, I got that from Tom! Blame him. Also, Titanic is mentioned in every interview with those behind the movie or article about Brokeback Mountain that I've seen. Here's a quote by the producer of Mountain from one of those articles.

When it came time to design the poster for the film, Schamus didn't research posters of famous Westerns for ideas. He looked at the posters of the 50 most romantic movies ever made. "If you look at our poster," he says, "you can see traces of our inspiration, 'Titanic'."

However, something can have an inspiration without directly mimicking said inspiration.

K'Nort

12-18-2005, 04:14 PM

Absolutely! I'm thinking of buying the story and reading it.

If you don't want the full Proulx short story collection, or if the library waitlist is too long, it's also in the 1998 collection of O'Henry Award prize winners. Along with Lorrie Moore's big one, plus people like George Saunders, Thom Jones, Alice Munro and Rick Bass. Relentlessly depressing year though.

Nick Kal

12-18-2005, 05:14 PM

Hey, I got that from Tom! Blame him. Also, Titanic is mentioned in every interview with those behind the movie or article about Brokeback Mountain that I've seen. Here's a quote by the producer of Mountain from one of those articles.

However, something can have an inspiration without directly mimicking said inspiration.

They meant the poster was the inspiration, not the film.

Ontir

12-19-2005, 01:35 AM

OK, I'll give you the poster, I guess. I've not seen Titanic and don't recall the poster.

Nick Kal

12-19-2005, 01:41 AM

OK, I'll give you the poster, I guess. I've not seen Titanic and don't recall the poster.

Trust me, the quote is being misinterpreted. They just wanted to market it like a romance, i.e. Titanic... and so the poster inspired their poster. That's all.

artemisboy

12-19-2005, 09:42 AM

I saw this movie yesterday and absolutely loved it. If I had to think of one word to describe my feeling of the movie, I'd definately have to say "haunting". It stayed with me even into this morning. (Hence, posting about it.) I can see why lots of people felt the scene between Ennis and Jack's wife most, but for me it was Ennis and Jack's last scene together that really did it for me. Ennis is such a quiet and weather-beaten character that I felt to see him just suddenly hit an emotional moment once Jack threatened to end their relationship really hit a chord. Ennis holds so much in during his life that when he does express an outward emotion, you often remember it. I think this is why one of his daughters was spotlighted so much near the end. Just like that one girl said, "You don't say much but when you do you get your point across". She got this from Ennis.

And me and my friends too think that Jack's death was depicted in the flashback. Sadly, we also think that it was caused by his wife's father.

I'm definately considering seeing this movie again. The only thing is that for some reason, this past weekend the movie was pulled from a majority of theatres it originally opened in, and Los Angeles only really has a small handful of theatres that are showing it. Thankfully in those theatres, it is airing on several screens. Still, the showing I originally was scheduled to see was too crowded and/or oversold so I had to see the next showing. And thankfully me and my friends had the sense to get our seats early because that show sold out too. (Not to mention a line out of the theatre for the show after that.) I'm definately getting this on DVD once it is released.

- Peter

AllisterH

12-19-2005, 12:28 PM

Huh, well I'd still bet that if a scientic poll over the overall straight female population were taken, most would not sight gay male action as a turn on. And for what it's worth, Ebert and Roeper agree with me. So does my mom. :)

Heh.

Haha...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA........

Oh, thank you for that laugh Jared. Haven't laughed out so loud in days. Good for the soul you know.

Seriously, who the hell do you think is writing all those yaoi and slash fanfiction. Lesbian fanfiction is still hard to come by but jump to say the Highlander or Harry Potter (Rowlings got pissed at the amount of gay Pottern fanfiction going around) community and you will quickly realize this essential truth.

WOMEN ARE AS BIG A PERVERT AS MEN.

Ontir

12-19-2005, 02:25 PM

I just had a flash of Jared asking his Mom how she likes her gay porn. Bear, Bondage, Bareback, twinkie, etc.?

artemisboy

12-19-2005, 03:11 PM

And THAT just reminded me of the movie Jeffrey when his mom asks him if he's a top or a bottom.

- Peter

artemisboy

12-20-2005, 12:57 PM

Spoiler Question:

One thing I didn't understand was Ennis' last line in the movie, "I promise..."

What exactly did he promise?

- Peter

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-20-2005, 01:01 PM

Spoiler Question:

One thing I didn't understand was Ennis' last line in the movie, "I promise..."

What exactly did he promise?

- Peter

Not sure. I wasn't exactly able to hear anything for sure by the last five minutes.

Corrina

12-20-2005, 01:24 PM

WOMEN ARE AS BIG A PERVERT AS MEN.

We just hide it better because society tells us ho-yay! is bad! Bad! Bad!

But we're snickering when we're watching "Smallville," the Gayest. Show. Ever.

Jared

12-20-2005, 02:03 PM

Heh.

Haha...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA........

Oh, thank you for that laugh Jared. Haven't laughed out so loud in days. Good for the soul you know.

Seriously, who the hell do you think is writing all those yaoi and slash fanfiction. Lesbian fanfiction is still hard to come by but jump to say the Highlander or Harry Potter (Rowlings got pissed at the amount of gay Pottern fanfiction going around) community and you will quickly realize this essential truth.

WOMEN ARE AS BIG A PERVERT AS MEN.

You realize only a small mintory of people who use the even read, much less write, fan fiction of any kind, much less slash fics, right? If you use that kind of stuff as a basis, you're going to get skewed numbers. The people who look for slash on the internet are, in essence, a specialty market.

If Brokeback Mountain makes great box office because of girls and young women going seeing it multiple times (as the succesful typical romance movies d), then I'll stand corrected. Till then, I'm with standing by what I've seen from personal experience, as well as standing by Roeper, Mom, and various anecdotes from stand-up comedians: *Most* women don't find two guys anywhere near as appealing as virtually all straight men find two women.

Jared

12-20-2005, 02:05 PM

I just had a flash of Jared asking his Mom how she likes her gay porn. Bear, Bondage, Bareback, twinkie, etc.?

Heh, I did set myself up for that. In case anyone's wondering though, it only came up because we were both watching TV, and there was something about Brokeback Mountain on. Incidentally, that's where Ebert & Roeper said the same thing. She concured, and that's about as much detail as I ever want to know about my mother and such a subject. I still tell myself that I was brought by the stork, after all... :)

Corrina

12-20-2005, 04:29 PM

Taken from a post by a fan on the yahoo list owned by romance author Jennifer Crusie:

"And, omg, I'm all for gay cowboy lovin' because what's sexier than that?"

There's over 1200 people on this list. The women there are very interested in the movie, both in the love story part and 'gay cowboy lovin' part.

Cayman

12-20-2005, 07:54 PM

Spoiler Question:

One thing I didn't understand was Ennis' last line in the movie, "I promise..."

What exactly did he promise?

- Peter

Wasn't it "Jack, I swear..."?

Cay

Ontir

12-20-2005, 08:47 PM

I think it was "I swear." but we have no idea what he was swearing. Maybe just his undying love.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-21-2005, 01:28 AM

Wasn't it "Jack, I swear..."?

Cay

Honestly, that's what I thought I heard but I had this roaring going on in my head at the same time. It's loud trying not to cry.

Nick Kal

12-21-2005, 02:29 AM

I swear I'll never forget you and what we had? Use your imagination!

Ian J.N.

12-21-2005, 03:58 AM

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-21-2005, 05:29 AM

Ycch. If a person gets off on Cowboy lovin', fine, good on you, but that seems disrespectful to what the movie's about.

Might be suprising to see how many people were going just to see Heath and Jake make out, gay, straight, male or female.

Course they had the roughest non-rough trade hooking up I've ever seen.

Corrina

12-21-2005, 06:41 AM

Ycch. If a person gets off on Cowboy lovin', fine, good on you, but that seems disrespectful to what the movie's about.

Disrespectful?

I'm sure if it was a serious lesbian movie, guys would not make a joke or two. Like the ones I heard about "Kissing Jessica Stein."

Seriously, as someone said earlier in this thread, the movie is about gay cowboys and is called brokeback mountain. The title probably refers to the figurative mountain of society's expectations placed on both men that broke their backs, but still....

I polled the ladies on the list about 'gay cowboy lovin.' So far, those who like it are in the majority, there's a few that don't care about the sex but are very curious about the dynamic in a love story between two men, and one or two who are not interested.

Cayman

12-21-2005, 07:00 AM

Honestly, that's what I thought I heard but I had this roaring going on in my head at the same time. It's loud trying not to cry.

I don't think he was really swearing or promising anything though, I think it was just showing that Ennis will never really be able to articulate what he felt for Jack. He tried to make a statement about what he and Jack could've had together and didn't have the words to complete it.

Cay

Ian J.N.

12-21-2005, 11:56 AM

Disrespectful?

I'm sure if it was a serious lesbian movie, guys would not make a joke or two. Like the ones I heard about "Kissing Jessica Stein."

Seriously, as someone said earlier in this thread, the movie is about gay cowboys and is called brokeback mountain. The title probably refers to the figurative mountain of society's expectations placed on both men that broke their backs, but still....
Oh don't get me wrong, the movie can (and should) be mocked. I, myself, am eagerly anticipating "Brokeback Mountain II: Gay Construction Workers", and I think we can all agree that "Brokeback Mountain VI: Gay Indians", will be nothing less than blockbuster.

The issue I have is with the "Ladies, go see Brokeback Mountain. The sex is totally hot" or the "Guys, bring your girlfriends to Brokeback Mountain. They'll totally get turned on". That seems disrespectful to what the movie's actually about. It's like lauding A Clockwork Orange for the hot chick in the rape scene.

artemisboy

12-21-2005, 12:53 PM

No, the simple truth is that WOMEN should see it because it is, to coin a phrase, a beautiful "chick-flick". Women and gay men usually share the same sensabilities in a standard movie. This movie, by any standard, reaches to both audiences. As for the straight men, I'd say that more open men will enjoy the film but feel that more closed men will just sqwirm throughout.

- Peter

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-22-2005, 09:52 AM

Spoiler Question:

One thing I didn't understand was Ennis' last line in the movie, "I promise..."

What exactly did he promise?

- Peter

From the story:

"Jack, I swear-" he said, although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-22-2005, 10:03 AM

Are you sure? Didn't Anna Faris' husband in the film divorce her and move in with Jack.. I could have sworn this brought up... somehow. Well, even if he didn't move in I'm sure him hitting on guys was definitely a major indicator to all the guys that he was gay and that led to him being killed. Regardless of what caused it, the beginning solidifies that Jack did die by being murdered.

This is from the story too:

The old man spoke angrily, "I can't get no help out here. Jack used to say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used to say, 'I'm goin a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' He had some half baked idea that the two a you goin a move up here, build a log cabin and help me run this ranch and bring it up. Then, this spring, he's got another one's goi a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He's goin a split up with his wife and come back here. So he says. But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."
So now he knew it had been the tire iron.

I forgot the part abpuit the tire iron when I read it the first time

artemisboy

12-22-2005, 10:21 AM

I bought the short story for my guy as a stocking stuffer. I'm kind of anxious for him to open it so that I can read it myself. :)

- Peter

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-22-2005, 10:55 AM

I bought the short story for my guy as a stocking stuffer. I'm kind of anxious for him to open it so that I can read it myself. :)

- Peter

It's a great story and it is really amazing how perfectly McMurty and the lady that helped it write the script stuck to the story.

Ontir

12-22-2005, 11:06 AM

I loved the film, and had an opportunity to see it with a Q&A with Ang Lee afterward. Because of that, I can't get him saying, "I'm Chinese, what do I know about gay cowboys?!?" out of my head, in response to a question about why he made THIS film. He said, and I think anyone who's seen it agrees, that it's a story that just wouldn't let him go.

mattbib

12-27-2005, 08:19 PM

Just saw the movie; the theater was packed. Only one couple walked out after the first sex scene. Whatever.

I thought it was a great story, and the acting was superb. Though Ledger was awesome, Michelle Williams stole every scene she was in.

Mia

12-30-2005, 04:42 AM

traxler

12-30-2005, 04:47 AM

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-30-2005, 05:34 AM

I am debating as to whether to see this film, however I am somewhat skeptical.

It seems as if many of the positive reviews of this movie is attributed to the fact that it's "a gay cowboy movie" and played by two mainstream (straight) Hollywood actors. And I wonder how really good it is in and of itself. I've been reading some of the reviews of the film on Amazon. And some have pointed out that 'it's too long/padded' from the authors original story . If it had been a film about a man and a woman, It would just be standard fare--and it would not have garnered all this attention. And the film really seems to be more about the disintegration of the marriages. There was no showing of any sort of emotional bond 'love' between the two men. Just raw heated sexual attraction. Oh it smacks of political correctness.

So I'm wondering if the hype is well deserved, if it warrents a trip to the theatre. Or should I just rent it when it comes out on DVD.

There is an emotional bond shown between the two guys. If love wasn't involved then why would they keep coming back to one another over and over during the course of 20 years. Driving hundreds of miles to do so. I don't know any guy that would do that for simply a hook up, be it a girl or a guy.

If it had been acted as well and the story had been done as well as this was then I think even a straight version would have received this much attention.

If you are unsure then by all means wait for DVD. Better to be safe with your money than go and be disappointed. Especially at the current ticket prices. But please do not dismiss this movie yet. See it first. Too many of the negative reveiws I have seen have been from people who have no intention to see it. They are jumping to conclusions due to a 1 minute at the most scene of any real gay sex. There is more straight sex shown then anything.

Mia

12-30-2005, 07:19 AM

But please do not dismiss this movie yet. See it first. Too many of the negative reveiws I have seen have been from people who have no intention to see it. They are jumping to conclusions due to a 1 minute at the most scene of any real gay sex. There is more straight sex shown then anything.

No I've ignored the reviewers that hate the film solely or mostly due to the homosexuality. I just want to know if there is more to this film
than the fact that it's 'groundbreaking' in that it features a gay romance with two mainstream actors. I've seen movies and tv shows with male/male relationships. So that alone would not be a draw for me to see the film.

TheWolfOfAsgard

12-30-2005, 10:15 AM

No I've ignored the reviewers that hate the film solely or mostly due to the homosexuality. I just want to know if there is more to this film
than the fact that it's 'groundbreaking' in that it features a gay romance with two mainstream actors. I've seen movies and tv shows with male/male relationships. So that alone would not be a draw for me to see the film.

I'd say go see it. But you have to promise not to hold it against me if you don't like it.:D

Strip away the hype, the superlatives, and the constroversy and the heart of this movie is something that I think a lot of people can relate to, gay or straight:

If you have ever loved someone that you couldn't truly have, then you'll understand this movie. If you've ever made a choice based on fear that's dictated the rest of your life, you'll understand this movie. If you've ever married the 'wrong' one because you thought you had no choice then you will understand this movie.

But to get to that, everything else surrounding the movie has to be pushed aside. It's not a gay movie, it's not a cowboy movie, it's not a romance movie. They all fit and they all can be applied in some way but this is a love story of what happens when one person lets his fear make his decisions for him and the affect that has over the course of twenty years. People may want to argue that point. But it truly is one character's fear that shapes this relationship.

jeanpaulB.

12-30-2005, 10:39 AM

I saw the movie, and it was really a great movie. I was suprised because I really am usually put off by over hyped movies. The whole gay sex scene was really more understated than it could have been, but i was glad as that was not the thrust of the movie. THe aching in the Innes character is palpable and Twist character is portrayed with a sensibility that makes sense. I did feel sorry for both wives. And who knew that bot michelle and Ann had the chops to pull of the parts. The movie was problematic in that you felt sympathy for all four. Each was living this life with a overwhelming longing to truly be loved, and they all were accepting what they could get no matter how much it hurt. It was raw (no pun intended) <well maybe a little>

I think that there will be some awards given out for this movie.

Ontir

12-30-2005, 09:43 PM

Mia,

There's far more to the film than "gay cowboys." If that were the case, it might just be a re-make of Warhol's Lonesome Cowboys. This is a real love story. Like any successful love story, you have to have a couple -whoever they might be - and then you have to have something that keeps them apart. This film has that, in spades, and that's precisely what makes it so compelling. Go see it, I'm sure you'll love it.

As far as the straight actors in gay parts thing, I'm split. Ledger and Gyllenhaal were absolutely great choices for the film, and it's their star-power that helped make the film fundable - even from an indie house. On the other hand, it is, at this late date, rather like doing a re-make of Othello starring Topher Grace. I like Grace, but the part kind of calls for a black actor. Unfortunately, the only really out and bankable movie stars we've got, are Nathan Lane, Rupert Everett, and Alan Cumming. While I love them all, only Cumming could possibly have pulled this film off.

tangentman

12-30-2005, 10:12 PM

I haven't seen the movie yet--as it WON'T be playing where I live--but my impression of it is that what sets it above standard "gay fare" is that it's a story of two "average joes" who fall in love outside any context of gay identity politics. It's not a coming out story nor is it a statement on how "Life is Better in The Gay Ghetto". From what I've heard and read in articles/reviews/etc, the story seems to be about two men who fall in love with heartbreaking consequences. I look forward to a time when I can actually see the movie and find out firsthand.

Ontir

12-30-2005, 10:16 PM

I've NEVER seen a "Life is better in the gay ghetto" movie!

What sets it apart from most, is that it's a whole story, with fully realised characters. It also had great production values. Most queer entertainment is put together on a shoestring, for an audience that's so starved for anything at all, that they'll put up with egregious crap. That's hardly unique to queer cinema though - Did you SEE Soulplane? :D

tangentman

12-30-2005, 10:24 PM

Watch "Queer As Folk", "The Birdcage", or "Love! Valour! Compassion!" for a movie/series sending the message that the "Gay Ghetto" is a colorful and magical place that's preferable to the "dullness" of life in "the straight world". I know what you mean about queer cinema, but I wouldn't say that ALL of it has been crap. For example, I enjoy Todd Haynes' work or the stories from the director of The Opposite of Sex and Happy Endings.

Ontir

12-31-2005, 11:50 AM

Mia

12-31-2005, 06:50 PM

The closest one that I'd give you, is Queer as Folk, which isn't a movie, and even that, the Liberty Avenue is a refuge, not the promised land. Note the reaction when violence hit the avenue. Love, Valour, Compassion took place at a summer home, not in some claustrophobic, self-exile, and the Birdcage was centered on a drag club, and barely dealt with the world outside.

There certainly are great queer films like Parting Glances, the Boys in the Band, Maurice, Longtime Companion, the Wedding Banquet, Bedrooms & Hallways, the Trip, & Latter Days to name a few.

Well if it's close to QAF (the US version) I'll give it a go. I considered the first two seasons of that show to be some of the best tv I have ever seen. And what I found ground breaking was not the fact that it was gay ensemble/soap opera. I found it ground breaking for the fact that it was the first show that I ever watched that a) got generation-X life right and b) The fact that it covered all issues of life

I guess that my trepidation of this film is due to another film I saw some years back called "Priest". I kept hearing how wonderful and heartbreaking it was. But when I finally saw the film I was catatonic with rage. The film is about a gay Priest and how he struggled with rejection when people found out that he was gay.

However there was a subplot which involved a young girl who told him in confession that her father was raping her. I was outraged that this priest had no problem breaking his vow of celibacy and acting on his homosexual impulses by picking up men in gay bars and having sex with them. But he couldn't bring himself to break the vow of confession by even making an annonymous call to the police. I found him to be hypocritical and cowardly. It made me ashamed as a Christian and disgusted as a woman.

So if Brokeback Mountain is more of the same where the gay characters are absolved bad behaviour or responsibility due the fact that they are gay. Then I would rather not see it.

tangentman

12-31-2005, 06:59 PM

Mia

12-31-2005, 07:22 PM

Mia, I don't think that the point of PRIEST was to absolve Linus Roache's character of morally ambiguous behavior; it was to present a conflicted man tormented by the chasm between his sexual identity and his religion. IIRC, he also confronted the father directly about his incest.

Oh and did you see the way he confronted him? "This must stop" Did he really think that approach was going to work? The father actually went to him in confessional bragging about it! And laughed in his face after he told him to stop. Did he think that approach was going to work?

I will never forget how in the film 'Sleepers' where the priest confronted a man who was beating his son. And told him that if he didn't stop he would give the father someone bigger to beat on (meaning himself).

Rape is (IMO) the most horrible crime on earth. And haivng it done by a parental figure is even twice as bad. There is no excuse for it. And to see Father Greg's feeble attempts to stop it. Was appaling beyond belief. I frankly had no sympathy for what happened to him after the way he turned his back on that girl. As far as I am concerned he was almost as sleazy as the father. What a coward and hypocrite.

Deathstroke

01-08-2006, 08:00 AM

At least one theater in Utah isn't gay cowboy friendly.

Article Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060108/ap_en_mo/brokeback_canceled)

Kamen Rider Might

01-08-2006, 02:20 PM

I'm not intending to watch this movie any time soon. Probably never.

Tom

01-08-2006, 05:17 PM

Just saw it. It's bizarre to me that anyone -gay, straight, male or female - would come away from this film declaring that anything about it was "hot." It's just not that kind of movie.

My take: very good but not deserving of some of the hype. I went with 2 straight females and their reaction was the same as mine. One of them even said "Is this story really all that eye-opening to some people?" which I think got to the heart of all our reactions. It was a well-told, well-acted story but there was nothing any of us found even remotely surprising or shocking about it. Not that I really expected to.

If you're curious, go see it. It's well done and only about .001% of the movie is icky gay stuff.

mattbib

01-08-2006, 07:32 PM

One of them even said "Is this story really all that eye-opening to some people?"...Unfortunately, I'm betting it is eye-opening to a lot of people. Or given how many closed-minded people only see the film as promoting immorality, cheating and abandonment, maybe not eye-opening enough.

phoenixrising

01-09-2006, 12:54 AM

tangentman

01-09-2006, 01:10 AM

Oh and did you see the way he confronted him? "This must stop" Did he really think that approach was going to work? The father actually went to him in confessional bragging about it! And laughed in his face after he told him to stop. Did he think that approach was going to work?

I will never forget how in the film 'Sleepers' where the priest confronted a man who was beating his son. And told him that if he didn't stop he would give the father someone bigger to beat on (meaning himself).

Rape is (IMO) the most horrible crime on earth. And haivng it done by a parental figure is even twice as bad. There is no excuse for it. And to see Father Greg's feeble attempts to stop it. Was appaling beyond belief. I frankly had no sympathy for what happened to him after the way he turned his back on that girl. As far as I am concerned he was almost as sleazy as the father. What a coward and hypocrite.

Which was part of the story about the priest's character--he WAS a coward and hypocrite. Consider the way he privately clung to that male lover like a lifeline, regardless of how briefly, and then denied that same man any spiritual succor in the Communion rite. Linus Roache wasn't playing the New York street tough-turned-priest like Robert De Niro; he played a dishonest man who was made sick by his secret. I wonder how much of that split in character type owed to the difference between American and British films. I don't believe that a priest in an American film could get away with weakly condemning incest in his parish and still be considered sympathetic.

Back to the thread topic...at last, Brokeback Mountain arrived in Savannah! I'll make a trip there and see it next weekend. I'm not really expecting a "groundbreaking" story, but I hope it's up to the excellent standard of Ang Lee's character pieces. While the story may not shock, I hope that it will break my heart.

DDM

01-09-2006, 09:23 AM

OK, so I loved this movie....but that's not the funny part.

My dad went to see it this weekend and said thet there were people in the theater with him who walked out disturbed and disgusted because they didn't know it was about homosexual cowboys. Somehow, people in Denver, CO did not know "Brokeback Mountain" (aka The GAY COWBOY movie) was not a Clint Eastwood western. I kid you not. Who can possibly be this out of touch?

The commercials don't say anything about Brokeback Mountain being a gay cowboy movie. Essentially, the advertisements present an apple when the movie is really about candy canes. It's purposely misplaced advertising to trick people into the theatres to see a typical romance movie.

mattbib

01-09-2006, 09:31 AM

wader0069

01-10-2006, 01:03 PM

I agree. While I enjoyed the movie, I feel the advertising is purposely being vague, if not totally misrepresentative.

It should be. This movie is very good, and breaks the mold. Opens the door to many new opertunities for homosexuals, and homosexual manstream entertainment. If they said hey come see Jake Gyllenhaal, and Heath Ledger makeout, and have gay cowboy sex attract alot of non homo audiences. So why not leave some things out in the hype. Maybe just maybe we can open some minds, and turn some coats too....

DDM

01-10-2006, 01:10 PM

It should be. This movie is very good, and breaks the mold. Opens the door to many new opertunities for homosexuals, and homosexual manstream entertainment. If they said hey come see Jake Gyllenhaal, and Heath Ledger makeout, and have gay cowboy sex attract alot of non homo audiences. So why not leave some things out in the hype. Maybe just maybe we can open some minds, and turn some coats too....

Any advertisement should sell the true story of the movie; however, in Brokeback Mountain's commercials they were purposely vague to trick the straight audience is seeing a movie about two gay cowboys. If the advertisements had been explicit it was about a gay cowboy movie, Brokeback Mountain might have faired a worse showing in the theaters than when it was released nationwide. The commercials wanted to keep the gay characters in the closet which is disingenuous about the movie itself.

You can't mislead the audience then expect them to have any "open mind" with outright false advertising.

Grant

01-10-2006, 01:40 PM

Any advertisement should sell the true story of the movie; however, in Brokeback Mountain's commercials they were purposely vague to trick the straight audience is seeing a movie about two gay cowboys. If the advertisements had been explicit it was about a gay cowboy movie, Brokeback Mountain might have faired a worse showing in the theaters than when it was released nationwide. The commercials wanted to keep the gay characters in the closet which is disingenuous about the movie itself.

You can't mislead the audience then expect them to have any "open mind" with outright false advertising.

I haven't seen these so called "Closeted" Ads. Maybe it's the fact I'm in New York but most of the Ads I've seen make it pretty clear this is about two men in love. Most of them feature that shot of the two of them embracing.

Also the movie is receiving a lot of press so I can't think someone would go in seeing it not knowing about the homosexual angle.

Patman

01-10-2006, 02:15 PM

I wrote this review on 12/17/05:

This film is currently playing only in one theater in Atlanta (on 3-4 screens, though), but I drove into town and was pleasantly surprised by the high number of people in line for the 11 a.m. showing (thankfully there was also an 11:30 a.m. showing that I was able to attend since the line was so long, and the theater only had one ticket window open that I didn't get my ticket until after the 11 a.m. showing commenced). Suffice it to say, the Friday showings were totally sold out, and the 3 showings I peeked in on were all sold out today.

Now with a film that received so much critical praise early in the "best of 2005" season, is it possible to keep an open mind about its touted "greatness"? I tried, limiting myself to the trailer of the film, and eschewing most of the other details about the film.

Surprisingly, for a film with a running time around 135 minutes, the scenes blend in and move without a lot of inconsequential material, the film just quietly pushes through the passage of time at a pace that almost feels natural because as you get older, time does whisk by, with only highpoints from the years to mark its passage.

Set in 1963, buoyed by a summer of shepherding sheep, Jack and Ennis develop a friendship that turns into something deeper for the two of them, but at the same time, it's something with dire consequences and outwardly forbidden. The film hits the right notes in depicting the shackles of societal convention that forbidden love engenders. The pain from living a less-than-truthful life can take its toll, and the quality of the storytelling is worthy of motivating viewers to re-examining their own lives should parallels exists.

The performance of Heath Ledger (Ennis) is very good, just a smidge better than Jake Gyllenhall's (Jack), it was easy to buy the onscreen chemistry between them. Also, Michelle Williams does some good work as Ennis's wife. Ang Lee and the screenwriters do a wonderful job of never losing the viewer, and choose the right angles to present the scenes to sustain the storyline in a confident manner, with nary a mis-step.

My initial thoughts on the aspect ratio was one of "why is this 1.85? It just screams 2.35 to me, but I will have to entertain the notion that director Ang Lee wanted to paint a more intimate portrait of the yearning and love between the principal characters, Jack and Ennis, and from that standpoint, 1.85 is a more proper aspect ratio. But the gorgeous scenery from Brokeback mountain would have benefited from a 2.35 aspect ratio.

Is it worth its hype? All I can say is that it didn't disappoint.

I give it 3.75 stars, or a grade of A-.

DDM

01-10-2006, 02:36 PM

I haven't seen these so called "Closeted" Ads. Maybe it's the fact I'm in New York but most of the Ads I've seen make it pretty clear this is about two men in love. Most of them feature that shot of the two of them embracing.

Also the movie is receiving a lot of press so I can't think someone would go in seeing it not knowing about the homosexual angle.

One ad featured constant shots of the woman character with one of the other men; it showed them dancing & such. Then the voice over says the movie critically acclaimed.

Another ad simply features a voiceover with criticially acclaimed (without telling the audience why) & shots of both men on the ranch & one shot of the woman.

With these two ads, I can see why some in audience might feel a little cheated when they find out it's a gay cowboy movie.

Grant

01-10-2006, 02:49 PM

One ad featured constant shots of the woman character with one of the other men; it showed them dancing & such. Then the voice over says the movie critically acclaimed.

Another ad simply features a voiceover with criticially acclaimed (without telling the audience why) & shots of both men on the ranch & one shot of the woman.

With these two ads, I can see why some in audience might feel a little cheated when they find out it's a gay cowboy movie.

Even if those particular ads might not focus on the gay aspect so I doubt anyone who plans on seeing it doesn't know what it's really about. I'm sure someone who would really be offended by it would be clued in by some other resource.

phoenixrising

01-12-2006, 01:20 AM

The commercials don't say anything about Brokeback Mountain being a gay cowboy movie. Essentially, the advertisements present an apple when the movie is really about candy canes. It's purposely misplaced advertising to trick people into the theatres to see a typical romance movie.

Yes, but anyone who has read any magazine, any newspaper, watched any TV news program, any late night talk show or seen any comedian would know it. If you didn't know what this movie was about, you've been living under a rock. They've hardly been hiding it.

Hell, they even managed to fit a joke about it into the Rose Bowl coverage.

Boldido

01-22-2006, 09:05 AM

I just saw this film last night and all I can say is that it deserves all the hype and praise it has been getting. I can't remember the last time I saw a film this powerful. I felt like I was getting kicked in the stomach over and over again. You felt for everyone in this movie. You felt for the leads, their wives, their kids. The hopelessness of their situation was almost overwhelming.

Anyone else see it?

Deathstroke

01-22-2006, 10:42 AM

The Boondocks had a bit of fun with the Brokeback Mountain movie today.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20060122/lbo060122.gif

Tages

01-22-2006, 04:01 PM

Saw it. Loved it. Though I think some people are overrating it slightly.

Helena

01-23-2006, 02:03 PM

That's funny! I haven't seen it yet. I'm holding on to my pennies and waiting until it hits the repetorie cinema. I also keep hearing how depressing it is. And right now I don't need anything to bring me down. However I did see the commercial for it on TV last night.

Ontir

01-23-2006, 09:49 PM

I don't think Brokeback Mountain is depressing. It's honest and quite real, even now, but having seen it three times now, I never left depressed.

Fabian

01-24-2006, 06:17 AM

I saw it and I thought it was overhyped. The flow of the story bored me and I got tired of all the shots of the scenery that was done. I thought the movie was average at best but since it was the first mainstream gay movie that people were ready to put it up on a pedestool. I never felt moved by it. The closest I got to that was when Ennis visited Jack's parents

KenK

01-24-2006, 07:42 AM

Yes, but anyone who has read any magazine, any newspaper, watched any TV news program, any late night talk show or seen any comedian would know it. If you didn't know what this movie was about, you've been living under a rock. They've hardly been hiding it.

Hell, they even managed to fit a joke about it into the Rose Bowl coverage.

That's how I feel about it. In fact, I knew the premise of this movie before the title, almost a year ago, when my sister described it to me, after hearing about it. People know what the movie's about, and I haven't seen anything misleading about the advertisements.

The Humanist Hero

01-24-2006, 07:49 AM

Any advertisement should sell the true story of the movie; however, in Brokeback Mountain's commercials they were purposely vague to trick the straight audience is seeing a movie about two gay cowboys.
The fact that the mainstream American audience has to be "tricked" in order to watch a movie with gay themes says a lot more about the audience than it does about Hollywood.

What the mainstream American audience has to be tricked into watching are quality films.

davids

01-24-2006, 08:41 AM

I like my cowboys riding off into the sunset ...after they get done killing a bunch of bad guys [sorry child hood abused victims.] indians [sorry once again i ment to say oppressed native american peoples.] saving the local school mom,[ i mean victims of sexist male dominance].

On second thought Think i will just watch the Searchers again. [expecting to see john Wayne climbing out of the grave with his rifle and colt 45 in hand and hunting down the producers of this fine movie!] :evilsmile

Cayman

01-24-2006, 01:12 PM

At least one theater in Utah isn't gay cowboy friendly.

Article Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060108/ap_en_mo/brokeback_canceled)

But they had no moral qualms with the events depicted in Hostel, a movie they were happy to show. :p

Cay

Peter

01-24-2006, 05:49 PM

The fact that the mainstream American audience has to be "tricked" in order to watch a movie with gay themes says a lot more about the audience than it does about Hollywood.

What, exactly, is that then?

I think it says that straight people just aren't interested in watching movies with gay themes. Simple numbers is going to tell us that. So?

The Humanist Hero

01-24-2006, 05:55 PM

What, exactly, is that then?

I think it says that straight people just aren't interested in watching movies with gay themes.
Yes, it says that and it's sad. People would rather see total shlock than a movie like this which has gotten rave reviews from both critics and audiences; and those that do see it have to be "tricked" into watching it because it deals with, God forbid, homosexuality.

Peter

01-24-2006, 05:59 PM

Yes, it says that and it's sad.

I disagree. This isn't like people are actively avoiding the movie, they just aren't interested in the first place. Aside from the eye-candy factor, I'm not remotely interested in seeing the film, either. And people should not have to get behind (pun not intended) something just because it has gay-themes, that's absurd. I'd rather people made up their own minds about it.

People would rather see total shlock than a movie like this which has gotten rave reviews from both critics and audiences;

According to all sources this movie is depressing as all get-out. That right there is the number one reason I won't be watching it, or else, only watching it for the first half an hour, or so.

and those that do see it have to be "tricked" into watching it because it deals with, God forbid, homosexuality.

I think you're wrong. That says more about the mindset of the marketing team behind the movie. What they *think* they need to do, to get people to watch their film, is not necessarily what they actually need to do.

The Humanist Hero

01-24-2006, 06:26 PM

I disagree. This isn't like people are actively avoiding the movie, they just aren't interested in the first place. Aside from the eye-candy factor, I'm not remotely interested in seeing the film, either. And people should not have to get behind (pun not intended) something just because it has gay-themes, that's absurd. I'd rather people made up their own minds about it.
The reason people should watch it isn't because it has gay themes; they should watch it because it is an excellent movie that happens to have gay themes.

Peter

01-24-2006, 06:29 PM

The reason people should watch it isn't because it has gay themes; they should watch it because it is an excellent movie that happens to have gay themes.

"Excellent" is wholly subjective, though.

They "should" watch the film only if they want to. If they aren't interested in the movie, then good for them.

Riddley Walker

02-02-2006, 05:51 PM

I understand your comments about the advertising for "Brokeback" and agree that there might have been a bit of "disingenuity" at work. I even saw a parody on TV (maybe on "The Daily Show"?) in which the actual ad was played while a voice over tried to reassure the viewer that this was a straight cowboy story. For example, over the scene of Ennis's wedding, the voice says something like: "It's about men who do manly things like MARRY WOMEN...."). So you aren't alone in your perception. What I am curious about is whether you have seen the film and what you think of it in and of itself, independent of the ads. Part of my curiosity is sparked by the fact that you seem really irritated about the ads but say nothing about the film itself. Part of it is stoked by the fact that I have long enjoyed the beautiful men who appear in your ever-changing avatars, many of whom I recognize from gay magazines and gay porn films... such as the Dave Dekker image of some weeks ago and the current one of the shaved-headed Colt model (even part of the Colt logo shows in this one). What is being advertised by the use of these images? And are they misleading? I'm not trying to provoke you or pick nits. I'm genuinely curious. None of my business, of course. And I won't be offended if you simply ignore this post. Regards, Ridd

tangentman

02-03-2006, 07:28 PM

I saw Brokeback Mountain and I think the movie deserves all the praise it's received! I found the story of Jack & Ennis compelling, including the glimpses into their lives away from Brokeback Mountain. Labeling the moview a "Gay Film" would mislead the viewers about the actual theme, as pointed out by other people already in the discussion: the agony that comes from locking yourself into a secretive life and sacrificing that which you love for externally-imposed definitions of a life. The theme isn't limited to gay themes, either; dishonesty afflicted the characters in other aspects of their lives.

For example, Jack spent many years letting his father-in-law cut him off from his own family. The scene of his son's birth was heart-rending; Jack is sent off by his domineering F-I-L on an errand, instead of spending time with his newborn child. During the Thanksgiving dinner scene, we see the dynamic that has played out by Jack not standing up for himself. A viewer doesn't need to be gay to relate to those scenes. Alienation from one's own family can be a theme relevant to different viewers.

Ennis cuts himself off from ANY form of love; he even does so with Jack, never letting the relationship progress beyond their sporadic and clandestine trysts. The story doesn't so much root for Jack or Alma; instead, we see how the secret hanging over all of them bleeds them emotionally dry. I certainly sympathized with all the characters--even Linda Cardellini's character, who doesn't get much screen time. Through these three loves of Ennis' life, we see how he hasn't moved on from Brokeback Mountain.

Like the setting of their love, Ennis is a remote and often harsh man. He's emotionally unattainable for much of his life--he withholds love from Alma, keeps his daughters at arm's length, and forces Jack to accept his love by piecemeal through brief "fishing trips". None of that is unique to a "gay" character, this could be any male character torn by emotional conflict.

The way the story comments on remaining stuck in time--Ennis clinging to that summer, but never moving forward with Jack--should resonate with any viewer who feels as if he or she has already lived their best moment in life. That's part of the real tragedy of the movie, regardless of the character's sexual orientations. In fact, the film avoids any overt gay identity politics. The story could just as easily have been about an interracial couple, or any couple that would be ostracized because of social conventions.

As far as any "misleading" ads go, I saw fairly straightforward trailers. It seemed very apparent to me what sort of story the movie would tell. I don't see how there could have been any "conspiracy" when various talk shows and news pieces gave away the same-sex romance. I hope that viewers will see the movie for the emotional truths, regardless of the genders of the characters involved.

Mia

02-04-2006, 08:52 AM

Okay I finally saw this film and for once it really, really deserves the hype! None of my fears came true on this film, it wasn't Priest and it wasn't another Million Dollar Baby and it certainly wasn't a 'gay pride' polemic.

However there was one thing that struck me much differently from the rest of the reviews I read.
It seemed to me that the two men wanted to return to 'Brokeback Mountain'. Because it was the only time and place that both men were really happy. It was clear near the beggining of the film that both characters already suffered from low self-esteem, and were already broken down as a result of their childhoods. First the rejection that Ennis felt as a result of his parents dying and his brother and sister rejecting him. Then there's the constant put downs of Jack by his Dad who was never satisfied with what he ever did. I hate to say it but, it seemed as if the two guys were 'loosers' before they started their affair. And whether they were gay or straight I really don't think that it would have really made that much difference in their lives. They (especially Ennis) already had serious psychological problems.

Great, great film film well acted and very tastefully done. Those of you holding out on seeing the film because of the gay stuff. The sex scene isn't that graphic, and I found it funny for the times that the two guys kissed, there was no 'open mouths'. Actually watching it, it was really amusing, like two straight actors who just wanted to get it over with as soon as possible. They really reminded me of two dogs fighting. There was less 'passion' and more "Let's just get this over." I found the film really interesting for the look at the way life is and the human condition.

Anyway I can honestly say that this is one film that definetly deserves the hype.

tangentman

02-05-2006, 01:21 AM

I would credit Jake Gyllenhall and Heath Ledger with more professionalism than taking a "let's just get this over" approach to the kisses. According to the short story that inspired the movie, Ennis WAS that forceful and rough in sex with Jack. I don't think that these men were supposed to be "soft light and pastels" about their sex. Their romantic interludes were very desperate, hungry, and too infrequent for the tenderness that would come with conventional romance scenes.

Mia

02-05-2006, 08:51 AM

Well I guess each film goer will interpret it a different way. I saw neither passion, love or lust in any of the physical encouters. In fact the discomfort and aprehension that both actors claimed to have towards the physical intimacy, was glarring. At least to me.

TheWolfOfAsgard

02-05-2006, 10:30 AM

I've never heard either of them say they had problems with the intimacy. All the interveiws I've seen and read they say they wanted to get it right. Especially Jake. They wanted it to be beleivable. And they did. There scenes come across as two people who's passion is driving them. That's why it seems rough. The passion is almost more than they can contain and it's eatring them up. It's a case of let it out or go crazy basically. especially Ennis.

I still say its the most rough, 'non-rough trade' coupling ever.

Mia

02-05-2006, 04:14 PM

Ledger said back during the fall that he had to talk himself into doing the scenes and to just be 'F*cking brave' and he had to down a 'couple of beers' before doing the scene. Gyllenhaal said that even despite his liberal leanings and liberal upbringing he still felt uneasy about the scenes.

Tages

02-05-2006, 06:30 PM

tangentman

02-05-2006, 08:24 PM

The impression I've gotten from both actors is that they tend to put themselves totally into their roles. They seem like perfectionist method actors to me. That's part of what enables Heath Ledger to convincingly play different American accents, or Jake to play a schizophrenic loon. I would see them be more worried about presenting the scenes convincingly than the gender of the co-star involved.

Keep in mind that Ang Lee's style and Proux's (sp?) story both go for the jugular. Those scenes WEREN'T supposed to come across as casual and tender. They were rough, they played to desperate emotional and sexual cravings, they're probably meant to make a viewer feel moved and troubled at the same time. I didn't see any sign of the actors hating the scene; I think they played the material they were given, and played it well.

Ontir

02-08-2006, 10:07 PM

Ontir, the problem I have with a few of the films you mention is that Longtime Companion felt at times like the usual "TV Movie of The Week" dreck about people living with AIDS. It seemed overly sentimental to me and played into the rule of the time that the only way gay men could be portrayed was as victims or casualties of AIDS. Maurice seemed dour and, frankly, boring to me. I haven't seen the last three movies, although I thought that The Wedding Banquet was a superb glance not only at gay issues, but cultural differences.

Longtime Companion was only the second film to deal with AIDS at all. The first was the TV movie, produced by the creators of Sisters, and showrunners of the American Queer as Fook, and starred Aidan Quinn. I went to Manhattan, considering moving there, the summer the film came out. Death was everywhere. I've never experienced anything like it, and I pray I never do again. Every block of the city, I encountered withering men, covered with purple lesions, asking for help. It was so overwhelming, that I stopped looking for work and apartments, and just tried to make a vacation out of it - which was quite difficult. I didn't return for about 6 years.

Maurice is a thinly veiled autobiography of the author, E.M. Forster. He never allowed the book to be published in his lifetime, because of the rather draconian punishments on the books in England, when it was written. It may seem dour to your modern, post-Stonewall, post-AIDS, post-"Will & Grace" eyes, but it's a book that has a happy ending for the gay protagonist. That was groundbreaking! I love the book, and the film is an almost verbatim translation to screen.

In terms of the actors having to ease themselves into the sexual scenes in Brokeback Mountain, I can certainly understand that. If I had to do a scene with a great deal of physical content AND nudity with a woman, I'd be really uncomfortable - that's why I'm NOT an actor! :eek:

tangentman

02-08-2006, 10:28 PM

I remember the fear and paranoia of the AIDS epidemic, when it was at it's height in the 80's. I also remember that Longtime Companion came out in 1990, and there had been Early Frost, as well as different TV shows, that dealt with AIDS. Most of those showed tragic outcomes because they predated certain meds and few survivors had been seen.

LC was the first wide-released mainstream film that addressed the topic, followed by Philadelphia, Boys On The Side, and others. From 1993-1995, I volunteered for an AIDS/HIV hotline where I lived at the time. I'm living now in an area that has a disproportionate amount of HIV cases for the community size and it's certainly not a "gay ghetto", either. For you to say that my perspective is "Post-AIDS, Post Will & Grace" is silly, since I was there for the advent of both. The only part of that statement you got right is "Post-Stonewall". ;)

BTW, I read the novel which inspired Maurice, and will admit that the film stood out in the 80's. However, even at the time I saw it, I found it dour for the most part. The reality of the times which the film depicted wasn't lost on me; however, I was speaking more to the entertainment value of the film, not the social relevance. Most of the mainstream films which flirted with gay themes in the 80's played it pretty safe and were boring or dissatisfying as a result. I actually considered Gregg Araki's "L.A. Trilogy" a breath of fresh air, despite his nihilistic take and gallows humor; his stories weren't desexualized, PC pieces designed to patronize gay audiences and protect straight viewers.

ChaosBurnFlame

02-10-2006, 11:15 AM

The only real gay subtext in X2 happened with Stryker's family (wanting Xavier to "cure" Jason of his mutant powers, bitter when it doesn't happen) and Bobby "coming out" as a mutant. "Can't you just try not being a mutant?" That was more gay than anything else cited by StoneGold.

Actually, when Jean was talking through Professor Xavier, when I saw that movie with my friends, I turned to Robert and said "Oh man, they're not gonna kiss, are they?!"

Ontir

02-10-2006, 05:44 PM

Tangent,

Longtime Companion was funded by PBS for starters. Because of that, it wasn't ever going to be Araki's way indie, and meagerly funded the Living End or Totally F#@!ed Up (I wish to God he'd make something as good as either of these films again!), but even so, it wasn't exactly neutered either. It also didn't have a very wide distribution. Had it been produced (as was once in the works) at Paramount and starring Tom Cruise as "Willy Wolf," it might have had that opportunity, but it didn't.

Prior to this, there were only a very few depictions of AIDS on TV, the first (the VERY FIRST, and still one of the best) being an Early Frost, and followed most notably by the great St. Elsewhere. Philadelphia, to its credit, managed to rise above just being "an AIDS movie for straight people," but still had some over-the-top (Sure, we can get Quentin Crisp to drop by our impromptu, masqued ball, at which the Nylons just happen to be performing!), and odd beyond reality things in it. Boys on the Side was, well... pretty bad. If it's memorable at all, it's because it's one of the first major studio depictions of anyone other than gay men being affected by AIDS.

Credit where it's due, for your commitment to the cause, which sadly exceeds my own, but I still think your historical recollection is a bit off.

Ontir

02-10-2006, 05:46 PM

X-Men is, and has been for the longest time, filled with homo metaphors. The whole question of "do you know what your children are," is the very beginning of it. Certainly Bobby's coming out is the more overt part of it, but it continues with Magneto's talk with Pyro, and Mystique's "...because we shouldn't have to." to Nightcrawler.

Red Kal

03-14-2006, 01:18 PM

TheWolfOfAsgard

03-14-2006, 01:51 PM

Magneto in the movies and the comic, has always seemed more to be to be the metaphor of misguided racial superiority than any homosexual metaphor.

Ontir

03-14-2006, 04:16 PM

Red Kal,

What I was referring to, was Magneto helping Pyro come to terms with being a mutant, being comfortable in his own skin, and learning to value himself for who he is. Getting to that place is equivalent and relevant to both, and I'm sure it's just as hard for mutants as it is for most gays and lesbians.

tangentman

03-14-2006, 04:33 PM

Gilda Dent

04-18-2006, 03:23 AM

I watched it again for the third time this weekend, the DVD, that is. It's still an incredibly powerful movie to me. I suspect it's going to go onto my short list of movies I rewatch on a regular basis, alongside Shawshank Redemption and Pleasantville.

Are you sure? Didn't Anna Faris' husband in the film divorce her and move in with Jack.. I could have sworn this brought up... somehow. Well, even if he didn't move in I'm sure him hitting on guys was definitely a major indicator to all the guys that he was gay and that led to him being killed. Regardless of what caused it, the beginning solidifies that Jack did die by being murdered.

I think nearly everyone in Jack's life suspected or knew he was gay. There are hints in several of the Texas scenes that point to that, little digs here and there. But he wasn't hitting on other guys. He'd hooked up with the ranch foreman and they'd likely been using the cabin the foreman talked about for romantic trysts, and Jack had foolishly been talking about the two of them leaving their wives and moving in together. I think we're supposed to understand that Jack became less and less able or willing to hide his true nature as time went on, and he either got braver or more foolish, and that's what finally got him killed.

Well by the end of the movie everyone knew about Jack and Ennis. So yeah I can beleive that he was dead. The little noise his wife kept making on the phone with Ennis was just perfect.

I am gonna see this movie again so if you are right about this and I missed it the first time then I will admit that I was wrong. I just think it was all talk because I don't think Jack had left his wife yet. Or if he had she was amazingly understandable for being left so he could live with another man.

I think a lot of people on Jack's end suspected as much, but on Ennis' end, he was able to hide it by repressing that part of himself so others couldn't see it. The problem with this is that you can't just repress that one part. When you do, you end up repressing the part of you that's able to feel love and connect to other people along with it.

The other thing that struck me with Lureen was that I don't really thing she loved Jack, and was playing the part of the "grieving widow". I could be missing a bit there, and maybe she was emotionally flat because she was in shock, but it doesn't read that way.

Yes, that scene was devastating.

As to the second question, both. During the Q&A, Ang Lee said that he shot that, as intended in the story and the script, to be shown in its entirety, but it was too abrupt, and damaged the flow of the film. It also broke the narrative structure, so brief flashes of it were inserted as Ennis' greatest fear, meeting with Jack's wife lying about the events. I think though, that she wasn't lying to hurt Ennis, but to spare him the pain she was enduring.

The thing here is, I'm not sure she is lying, at least, not blatantly. She's repeating the story she's been told, and may have decided not to question it because it would be dangerous to go there.

Spoiler Question:

One thing I didn't understand was Ennis' last line in the movie, "I promise..."

What exactly did he promise?

- Peter

I was definitely, "I swear . . ." and it doesn't matter what it was. It's like the whispered line at the end of Lost in Translation--we're better off not knowing. The point, I think, is that every time Jack tried to make plans, Ennis pushed him away. Ennis was never able to commit to anything, not a job, his family, his girlfriend, his daughter when she reached out to him, or the man he loved, but he seemed to be at the point where maybe he was ready to make a change. Just before he does says that, he has the scene with his daughter in which he tries to make an excuse to maybe not be at her wedding, then changes his mind, has a drink with her, says he'll be there, and he seems to actually be happy for a moment. Even if it was only a moment of happiness, this is a change for this man who's taught himself not to feel anything to protect hiself from the world. The last line there serves as a reinforcement of this idea. He may not have grown much, but he was willing to at least make that one small step of comitting to something.

I loved the scene with Jack's parents, where nobody says what they mean, and everyone knows exactly what's going on--Ennis was Jack's gay lover, his Dad knows this and resents Ennis for it, his mom knows and accepts it, and though her loss is enormous, she's trying to comfort Ennis. She even sees this man she's never met as family of sorts, and wants him to come back, an offer I doubt Lureen would get, or got.

Gilda

Forefinger

04-18-2006, 04:19 AM

I watched this a couple of weekends ago. It was a great movie. Those couple of gay sex scenes were rough to get through, but the rest of the movie was just great.

Arune Singh

04-18-2006, 05:23 AM

I couldn't finish the movie. I just got bored to tears about an hour and a bit into it. I just couldn't be sympathetic to the leads, who came off like selfish brats instead of unrequited lovers. All the love scenes, hetero and homo, were a bit too rough for my tastes and didn't do a whole lot to enhance my viewing experience.

I'm sure a lot of you rightfully loved this film, but it bored me to the point where I had to watch something else.

Forefinger

04-18-2006, 07:54 AM

HomerJay

04-18-2006, 10:26 AM

When I first saw it I walked away with the attitude of merely "yeah, that was really good". After thinking about it afterwards, it has really burrowed into me and has gotten lodged into my heart like few movies have done. It does an amazing job of conveying the yearning and pain in the characters' hearts. Ledger's performance was brilliantly understated and you really get a sense of him just being a lost soul who deep-down wants love, regardless of where it comes from.

Trusty Mutsi

04-18-2006, 10:46 AM

If you sympathize that much with the plights of fictional women, imagine how real women must feel when it happens to them. I haven't seen the movie, but I wonder if the real tragedy will be one (or both) of the characters choosing to continue living a lie?

Well, for me it's something where you made a promise to stick with someone for life, and then decide it was a mistake and leave the spouse. When you marry someone, you've got to think real serious about whether or not you'll be sticking with it for the long haul. Other, don't make a promise you can't keep.