Who do you think is qualified to protect Gotham City besides Batman? [Archive]

Arkham Resident

12-10-2005, 02:05 AM

This is a spin-off from another thread about Gotham.

Batman's beloved City.Home for some of the most wretched villains in DCU.
Who can qualify as its protector if Bruce is not around? Can they tame this city?

For me, Bruce has difficulty cleaning up Gotham because Batman's no -kill policy is an obstacle of sorts. Round -up, incapacitate the villains, give them to GCPD or lock them up in Arkham. They break-out , come back and it has become a wild cycle of tiring cleansing process...

I'm not advocating vigilantes to take-over Gotham but my candidates
would be.. Deathstroke and Ras Al Ghul..

Dont limit it to heroes, villians should be welcome as well...
So who would be your candidates? :evilsmile

colossus34

12-10-2005, 03:05 AM

The obvious first choice is Nightwing, the guy is always listed as DC's 2nd best crime-fighter around. In Crisis we might even see him best Batman!

Vendetta

12-10-2005, 04:42 AM

Alan Scott. He managed the job pretty well long before Batman showed up.

1HELLBOY

12-10-2005, 11:37 AM

SpartanX

12-11-2005, 08:34 PM

Nightwing or Deathstroke

megladon8

12-11-2005, 08:44 PM

Villains should be welcome as well?

Wow...

And I don't think Batman really LOVES Gotham. He protects it, becuase he feels that he's the only one who can and will. It's more like a love/hate relationship. With a little more hate than love.

He loves the city his parents built. He hates the city that destroyed them.

He wants the first one back.

1HELLBOY

12-11-2005, 09:08 PM

He loves the city his parents built. He hates the city that destroyed them.

He wants the first one back.

Yeah, I'll take that.

megladon8

12-11-2005, 09:21 PM

Yeah, I'll take that.

I've been reading a LOT of Batman lately, and I agree with a friend of mine who said that Batman is portrayed as being a little bit TOO obsessive about his parents' murder. I mean, fine, he spends a long time grieving and can't get over it, and that's what creates Batman.

But honestly, it's been roughly 20 years in the comics since he first dawned the suit. He would have gotten over it at least a bit by now.

It's not Joe Chill that he hates. It's not Joe Chill that created Batman. It's Gotham City.

Sabrinaset

12-11-2005, 09:31 PM

People who could protect Gotham City...Can we use MU characters as well? If so...

Nightwing
Deathstroke
Black Panther
Spider-Man mmmmmmmaybe
Taskmaster
Moonstone
Purple Man
Lex Luthor

megladon8

12-11-2005, 09:34 PM

People who could protect Gotham City...Can we use MU characters as well? If so...

Nightwing
Deathstroke
Black Panther
Spider-Man mmmmmmmaybe
Taskmaster
Moonstone
Purple Man
Lex Luthor

Only one I agree with is Lex Luthor.

The Joker would rape Mary Jane, then cut out her heart and make Spider-Man eat it before he shot him in the face.

1HELLBOY

12-11-2005, 09:44 PM

I've been reading a LOT of Batman lately, and I agree with a friend of mine who said that Batman is portrayed as being a little bit TOO obsessive about his parents' murder. I mean, fine, he spends a long time grieving and can't get over it, and that's what creates Batman.

But honestly, it's been roughly 20 years in the comics since he first dawned the suit. He would have gotten over it at least a bit by now.

It's not Joe Chill that he hates. It's not Joe Chill that created Batman. It's Gotham City.

Yeah, I've always thought that his parent's death was what motivated him to become Batman. Not what's keeping him as Batman. I'm sure he's accepted it by now.

And I also agree that Batman hates the Gotham City that took his parents away from him.

1HELLBOY

12-11-2005, 09:46 PM

People who could protect Gotham City...Can we use MU characters as well? If so...

Nightwing
Deathstroke
Black Panther
Spider-Man mmmmmmmaybe
Taskmaster
Moonstone
Purple Man
Lex Luthor

I really, REALLY don't think Villains should be handed the reins of ANY city, much less Gotham.

Guts/Batman

12-11-2005, 10:58 PM

I'll second Alan freakin Scott.

Then again...with him there Gotham gets weeded of villains faster than plot would like it to be...

Guts/Batman

12-11-2005, 11:00 PM

People who could protect Gotham City...Can we use MU characters as well? If so...

Lex Luthor

You're going to let Lex Luthor protect the city.

You are certifable nuts.

Arkham Resident

12-12-2005, 03:57 AM

It's not Joe Chill that he hates. It's not Joe Chill that created Batman. It's Gotham City.

Agree. His dickness might also be an after-effect of being in and protecting Gotham. The place just teach you not to easily trust people.

Arkham Resident

12-12-2005, 04:01 AM

Anyone thought of The Punisher in Gotham?

Arkham Resident

12-12-2005, 04:05 AM

The Joker would rape Mary Jane, then cut out her heart and make Spider-Man eat it before he shot him in the face.

This one made me laugh. very in-depth analysis. Joker will just have fun with Spidey. :D

Guts/Batman

12-12-2005, 10:03 AM

Anyone thought of The Punisher in Gotham?

Why do we need Frank?

We already have Punisher-lite in Gotham right now. He's called the Red Hood....

megladon8

12-12-2005, 10:27 AM

This one made me laugh. very in-depth analysis. Joker will just have fun with Spidey. :D

Hehe.

Yeh I went a little overboard.

But honestly, I don't think Spider-Man has what it takes for a city like Gotham. It's just too messed up for him...I could see him just completely losing it because he sees things he couldn't possibly imagine.

Guts/Batman

12-12-2005, 10:42 AM

Hehe.

Yeh I went a little overboard.

But honestly, I don't think Spider-Man has what it takes for a city like Gotham. It's just too messed up for him...I could see him just completely losing it because he sees things he couldn't possibly imagine.

He fights crime in NYC. Guy just had a guy eat his eyeball, for God's sake. He seen and felt it all.

It's not all that different from GC.

And like Alan Scott. Spidey cleans up faster than the plot allows.

megladon8

12-12-2005, 10:50 AM

He fights crime in NYC. Guy just had a guy eat his eyeball, for God's sake. He seen and felt it all.

It's not all that different from GC.

And like Alan Scott. Spidey cleans up faster than the plot allows.

I didn't know that about his eye. I'm not a big Spider-Man reader.

protege

12-12-2005, 10:55 AM

Villains should be welcome as well?

Wow...

And I don't think Batman really LOVES Gotham. He protects it, becuase he feels that he's the only one who can and will. It's more like a love/hate relationship. With a little more hate than love.
hmm.. there's a thought- what would Bruce Wayne do, if he wasn't protecting Gotham? Would batman even exist?

Guts/Batman

12-12-2005, 10:56 AM

I didn't know that about his eye. I'm not a big Spider-Man reader.

Yea.

"The Other" storyline is quite f---ed up.

Plus, the current incarnation of Spidey gave birth to himself. :D

megladon8

12-12-2005, 10:59 AM

Yea.

"The Other" storyline is quite f---ed up.

Plus, the current incarnation of Spidey gave birth to himself. :D

Wow.

And about the eye thing...I imagine it'll turn out that it wasn't really Peter Parker. Probably a clone left over from that horribly pretentious clone saga in the early 90s.

That's what got me off Spider-Man in the first place.

Well, that and the fact that his one-liners are no longer quick and funny, but now I just find him annoying. If I knew him, I'd punch him in the face.

And then catch MJ on the rebound.

Guts/Batman

12-12-2005, 12:27 PM

Wow.

And about the eye thing...I imagine it'll turn out that it wasn't really Peter Parker. Probably a clone left over from that horribly pretentious clone saga in the early 90s.

That's what got me off Spider-Man in the first place.

Believe me...the eye thing is just the tip of the iceberg. He now has a cybernetic eye and he mutated so he now has fangs and drained the guy who ate his eye.

It's hilariously bad. It will probably be ignored when JMS leaves the titles. Kinda like Infinite Crisis and HoM will be ignored 5 years from now.

He now has naturally produced webbing. So he's kinda "organic" in a way.

And with that clone saga came a retcon of Gwen Stacy's life. She had Normna Osborn's twins before she and Peter got together and didn't tell him. MJ knew about it but didn't tell him either.

That's an arc called Sins Past.

Batman's life isn't near as f---ed up as Peter's is.

megladon8

12-12-2005, 01:32 PM

Believe me...the eye thing is just the tip of the iceberg. He now has a cybernetic eye and he mutated so he now has fangs and drained the guy who ate his eye.

It's hilariously bad. It will probably be ignored when JMS leaves the titles. Kinda like Infinite Crisis and HoM will be ignored 5 years from now.

He now has naturally produced webbing. So he's kinda "organic" in a way.

And with that clone saga came a retcon of Gwen Stacy's life. She had Normna Osborn's twins before she and Peter got together and didn't tell him. MJ knew about it but didn't tell him either.

That's an arc called Sins Past.

Batman's life isn't near as f---ed up as Peter's is.

No, I think Batman has a very fucked up life.

I'd say it's not as ridiculous as Peter's is :)

EDIT: Also, I don't think the actual events in Infinite Crisis will be ignored. However, I think the results will be pretty much shunned.

Killing off Kal-El is going to be a HUGE mistake for DC. Especially when they've got All-Star Superman bringing some life back to the character.

So ya...I'm sure Infinite Crisis will be remembered. But I think the changes it causes will only be temporary.

Choppa

12-13-2005, 04:10 PM

I think that Azrael (pre-Batman #500 when it was decided that he was "crazy") is the obvious answer.

In Knightquest:The Crusade he showed all of the elements that make Bruce a suitable Batman:

-He can fight (and has been shown to be able to beat Bruce, Dick, and Tim)
-He has detective skills shown when he was analyzing Catwoman during their fight and when he was able to find the joker
-He has computer skills
-He struggles with inner demons in the form of living up to his father's legacy
-He is just as driven as Bruce, if not more. Bruce wastes time maintaining a secret ID, while JPV doesn't
-He was scarier than Bruce, noted by Gordon's mentioning of the drop in crime rates during the period that he was Batman
-And he has the system to give him other abilities that are untapped

Plus, from a story telling standpoint, it was interesting IMO to see him approach being Batman as it was a fresh take and he wasn't a "know it all" like Bruce is. We could actually see him formulate his thoughts as opposed to him just knowing everything with no explanation.

Guts/Batman

12-13-2005, 04:12 PM

But he let two people die as a result of his being Batman.

Gordon would not have stood for that and JPV would have been taken down.

megladon8

12-13-2005, 04:46 PM

What books are good to buy (preferrably TPB's) that give a background on Azrael?

Choppa

12-13-2005, 04:55 PM

But he let two people die as a result of his being Batman.

Gordon would not have stood for that and JPV would have been taken down.

No he didn't. Pre-Batman #500 no one had died, that didn't happen until the end of KnightQuest. And if I recall, Azrael isn't the first person who tried to atone for an innocent death. if anything it gives him even more of a reason to want to be a hero. And it's hypocritical of Bruce to have to "take him down" when he caused a death indirectly and Batgirl on the other hand murders someone in cold blood and still gets to wear the symbol.

bat2supe

12-13-2005, 04:56 PM

Who do you think is qualified to protect Gotham City besides Batman?

ME!!

bat2supe

12-13-2005, 04:57 PM

He, He, He!!

Gaz

12-13-2005, 05:03 PM

Let's see. Limit it to street level, and we'd have Nightwing, Batgirl, the Birds of Prey (as a unit) that could hold things together. Maybe Daredevil too.
I'd enjoy that with random thug.

Thug: "Heheheh, who's gonna save ya now, lady?"
*silhouette appears with two point protusions on the head*
Thug: The Bat?!
DD: No. The Devil...

Choppa

12-13-2005, 05:10 PM

What books are good to buy (preferrably TPB's) that give a background on Azrael?

Sword of Azrael introduces the character and is pretty much mandatory if you want to learn about him.

The Knightfall trades and the KnightsEnd trade are also good. The storyline between the two, KnightQuest is really interesting but it hasn't been collected into a trade. After that there's just his own series and none of it has been put into a trade.

Guts/Batman

12-13-2005, 05:15 PM

KnightQuest hasn't been collected?

Isn't that the second tpb?

Choppa

12-13-2005, 06:31 PM

Nope. There's three trades- Two for Knightfall and one for Knightsend.

Arkham Resident

12-14-2005, 03:12 AM

As a unit, Al Ghul and his League of Assasins could really do a good job in Gotham.

except he's dead now and his motivation might be too radical.

seaflower

12-14-2005, 09:12 AM

Nightwing, Huntress, Robin, Batgirl and Catwoman

Chad G.

12-14-2005, 10:38 AM

Qualified. Hell, I'm qualified. But having the ability and the desire to do it are 2 things that factor in more than "qualification". They are the 2 most important things. I mean really, you're talking about spending virtually the entire night up, watching one of the biggest cities in the DCU Earth, and having no life. Which of them would be willing to do that. Batman sets a precedent that is virutally impossible to equal. The only one who I think would have the determination to do it would be Cass.

And no, Villians should never be handed the reins to Gotham. Thats lunacy.

The Mirrorball Man

12-14-2005, 10:41 AM

Anarky would be more than qualified.

Choppa

12-14-2005, 10:41 AM

Cass ain't got detective skills. She can barely read. Az has that and more.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 10:54 AM

Gaz

12-14-2005, 04:54 PM

Cass ain't got detective skills. She can barely read. Az has that and more.
She can barely read, yes. But she can recognise clues, knows what questions to ask, and can read people very well. She's no worse than Dick.
(And don't bring up the computer, hers is set up for voice control and response.)

1HELLBOY

12-14-2005, 05:41 PM

hmm.. there's a thought- what would Bruce Wayne do, if he wasn't protecting Gotham? Would batman even exist?

Actually, that's already been sort of addressed.

In the Absolute Power arc of Superman/Batman, Batman was sent back in time and then he stopped the murder of his parents. Then, when Superman was brought to that time later on in Bruce's life, he was just...Bruce Wayne. He was still living at the mansion with his parents. As far as I can remember, there just wasn't a Batman. It was very interesting.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 06:39 PM

She can barely read, yes. But she can recognise clues, knows what questions to ask, and can read people very well. She's no worse than Dick.
(And don't bring up the computer, hers is set up for voice control and response.)

As I've mentioned, I have never read a Batgirl book. Cassandra Cain is my favorite, but it's simply from playing the game VS.

My question is, is she still not capable of speech?

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 06:44 PM

As I've mentioned, I have never read a Batgirl book. Cassandra Cain is my favorite, but it's simply from playing the game VS.

My question is, is she still not capable of speech?

No, she speaks quite well.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 06:46 PM

No, she speaks quite well.

But she can't read?

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 06:49 PM

But she can't read?

To my knowledge she has difficulty with that.

But her brain has been "re-wired" a few times.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 06:53 PM

To my knowledge she has difficulty with that.

But her brain has been "re-wired" a few times.

Ah...

*is still puzzled*

Chad G.

12-14-2005, 07:05 PM

Why do you think you're qualified to protect a city that even the world's greatest martial artist and detective has a hard time looking after?

I think you missed my point.

Answer me this.

Do you think that you stop by your local unemployment office and pick up a job application for "CITY PROTECTOR".

What would you consider job requirements. Lets take several examples of people that could be consider possible canidates:

Spiderman
Flash
Batman
Punisher

High Intelligence:

Spiderman- No
Flash- Ha Ha, No
Batman - Yes
Punisher- Ehhh, no

Super Powers:

Spiderman - Yes
Flash - Yes
Batman - No
Punisher - No

Vast Wealth for Gear, HQ, etc...

Spiderman - No
Flash - No
Batman - Yes
Punisher - No

Military or Police Training:

Spiderman - No
Flash - No
Batman - Yes(of sorts)
Punisher - Yes

The point that I am trying to make is that there is no qualification for being a city protector. It's a matter of wanting to do something greater than yourself.

"With great power comes great responsibility"

Peter, Wally, and Bruce have all taken it upon themselves to protect their citys at one time or another. But Bruce's job is the hardest of the three by far. He has the least powers of the 3, but cares the most about his job. The only way to describe it is obsessive, or fanatical. The point that I am trying to make is that it takes a special sort to protect a city, and Gotham would be the hardest. Without an amzingly dilligent individual protecting the city, it would quickly slide down a chute to a fate even worse than it is now.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 07:07 PM

I think you missed my point.

Answer me this.

Do you think that you stop by your local unemployment office and pick up a job application for "CITY PROTECTOR".

What would you consider job requirements. Lets take several examples of people that could be consider possible canidates:

Spiderman
Flash
Batman
Punisher

High Intelligence:

Spiderman- No
Flash- Ha Ha, No
Batman - Yes
Punisher- Ehhh, no

Super Powers:

Spiderman - Yes
Flash - Yes
Batman - No
Punisher - No

Vast Wealth for Gear, HQ, etc...

Spiderman - No
Flash - No
Batman - Yes
Punisher - No

Military or Police Training:

Spiderman - No
Flash - No
Batman - Yes(of sorts)
Punisher - Yes

The point that I am trying to make is that there is no qualification for being a city protector. It's a matter of wanting to do something greater than yourself.

"With great power comes great responsibility"

Peter, Wally, and Bruce have all taken it upon themselves to protect their citys at one time or another. But Bruce's job is the hardest of the three by far. He has the least powers of the 3, but cares the most about his job. The only way to describe it is obsessive, or fanatical. The point that I am trying to make is that it takes a special sort to protect a city, and Gotham would be the hardest. Without an amzingly dilligent individual protecting the city, it would quickly slide down a chute to a fate even worse than it is now.

Okay. I apologize.

I thought you were saying like "oh...I could easily protect Gotham, because I am so freaking awesome".

So ya...sorry.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 07:11 PM

Ah...

*is still puzzled*

Cassandra Cain was trained to read body language only by her father who trained her to be the best killer possible.

She couldn't read and couldn't write. She just knew how to fight and read body language.

So, when she did learn to read and write, her brain had to be "re-wired" so that she could learn to read and write at the expense of being able to read body language. That affected her fighting ability.

So she lost her death match with Lady Shiva, Shiva agreed to re-train her so she would be able to read body language (and thus regain her true fighting ability) while being able to read and write.

Her brain, once again, had to be re-wired for her to be able to do so.

This is something she is still working on perfecting.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 07:12 PM

Cassandra Cain was trained to read body language only by her father who trained her to be the best killer possible.

She couldn't read and couldn't write. She just knew how to fight and read body language.

So, when she did learn to read and write, her brain had to be "re-wired" so that she could learn to read and write at the expense of being able to read body language. That affected her fighting ability.

So she lost her death match with Lady Shiva, Shiva agreed to re-train her so she would be able to read body language (and thus regain her true fighting ability) while being able to read and write.

Her brain, once again, had to be re-wired for her to be able to do so.

This is something she is still working on perfecting.

Does she actually have any affiliation with Batman, or does she just carry the Bat name?

Because I honestly have never seen an image of the two together.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 07:22 PM

Does she actually have any affiliation with Batman, or does she just carry the Bat name?

Because I honestly have never seen an image of the two together.

Yes, she has a very close affliation with him. But you would have to read Batgirl or read NML to see it.

She's the only one who wants to impress him. Who feels the need to impress him. She works every day to...gain and retain his acceptance as if it was the only one she needed to gain acceptance from.

And he pushed her out of Gotham City into Bludhaven.

Hell, she's the only one who cared about Spoilers' death. And showed emotion over it.

Chad G.

12-14-2005, 07:28 PM

Okay. I apologize.

I thought you were saying like "oh...I could easily protect Gotham, because I am so freaking awesome".

So ya...sorry.

No prob.

In all likelihood, I'd be dead in the first week. :D

megladon8

12-14-2005, 07:29 PM

megladon8

12-14-2005, 07:30 PM

No prob.

In all likelihood, I'd be dead in the first week. :D

I think there was a thread about this a while ago. How long Batman would last in the real world.

I think the general consensus was about 45 minutes :)

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 07:37 PM

No prob.

In all likelihood, I'd be dead in the first week. :D

Hell, that's probably better than living there.

Especially in the slums.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 07:39 PM

Sounds to me like maybe she'd like to get a hold of his bat, man :D

Heh.

He views her as the daughter he never had, kinda.

He knows her past and thus everyday she doesn't cross the line (killing someone) she proves him wrong every day.

That's how she gains his acceptance.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 07:40 PM

Yes, she has a very close affliation with him. But you would have to read Batgirl or read NML to see it.

She's the only one who wants to impress him. Who feels the need to impress him. She works every day to...gain and retain his acceptance as if it was the only one she needed to gain acceptance from.

And he pushed her out of Gotham City into Bludhaven.

Hell, she's the only one who cared about Spoilers' death. And showed emotion over it.

BTW, thanks for answering my limitless questions.

I must seem very annoying.

But I really appreciate it. As I have said countless times, I have only been REALLY getting into comics in the last 1-2 years, so I am still really learning about stuff. I've barely skimemd the surface of even my favorite titles.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 07:46 PM

BTW, thanks for answering my limitless questions.

I must seem very annoying.

But I really appreciate it. As I have said countless times, I have only been REALLY getting into comics in the last 1-2 years, so I am still really learning about stuff. I've barely skimemd the surface of even my favorite titles.

That's ok.

I only got back around Countdown. I was enthusiastic about Infinite Crisis and the build up for the first few monthes but that faded. But August it began to fade.

And now, it is almost completely gone.

I got 60-75% of the build-up issues. Do I regret it now? Not at all. But it pretty much killed my enthusiasm. Especially the ending of The OMAC Project.

That realllly sucked.

I just have gotten a lot of tpb so I know what has gone on for the most part. I would get the stuff between Hush and War Games (Scarebeast, etc) but I passed on all those and focus on monthlies.

It also explains why my enthusiasm for the Bat-titles has waned since August.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 07:50 PM

That's ok.

I only got back around Countdown. I was enthusiastic about Infinite Crisis and the build up for the first few monthes but that faded. But August it began to fade.

And now, it is almost completely gone.

I got 60-75% of the build-up issues. Do I regret it now? Not at all. But it pretty much killed my enthusiasm. Especially the ending of The OMAC Project.

That realllly sucked.

I just have gotten a lot of tpb so I know what has gone on for the most part. I would get the stuff between Hush and War Games (Scarebeast, etc) but I passed on all those and focus on monthlies.

It also explains why my enthusiasm for the Bat-titles has waned since August.

It seems DC is going into a big slump with Infinite Crisis, and the post-IC changes to the universe.

Unless they have some incredible (and I mean GOD-LIKE) writing on these new titles to make up for what's happening, I think they are going to lose a lot of readers.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 08:12 PM

IUnless they have some incredible (and I mean GOD-LIKE) writing on these new titles to make up for what's happening, I think they are going to lose a lot of readers.

What DC has to do in it's writing is not focus on the plot of the story or the action and violence. Instead work on the characters themselves, make the characters the story and the action that the characters do purely not as important.

This is why Conner Kent is a whiny bitch boy right now, Batman is a moody asshole and Ollie is a jealous, hypocritical ass.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 08:56 PM

What DC has to do in it's writing is not focus on the plot of the story or the action and violence. Instead work on the characters themselves, make the characters the story and the action that the characters do purely not as important.

I completely agree. What I meant is, if the writing is strong and based on the characters, developing them well, etc. then the books could be alright, even good.

A guy I talk to on another forum always says, "there are no bad ideas/characters, just bad writers". If the writers just focus on fighting and violence, books get very monotonous, so they do very much need to get back into working on character development.

I don't see that happening with some of these, though.

This is why Conner Kent is a whiny bitch boy right now, Batman is a moody asshole and Ollie is a jealous, hypocritical ass.

I always thought that the idea was, after a good 20 years of hell in Gotham, he probably would be a moody asshole. I think pretty much anyone would.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 09:00 PM

I always thought that the idea was, after a good 20 years of hell in Gotham, he probably would be a moody asshole. I think pretty much anyone would.

I don't see that happening either. Color me skeptical until it happens.

One can be a moody asshole to people you don't know, but when you become a moody asshole to your family. The writer has gone too far.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 09:02 PM

I don't see that happening either. Color me skeptical until it happens.

One can be a moody asshole to people you don't know, but when you become a moody asshole to your family. The writer has gone too far.

My dad is moody... :confused:

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 09:03 PM

My dad is moody... :confused:

But one can be moody without being an asshole, too.

One can be moody and use and show his emotions too without turning them into fuel for machinations.

One can be moody and human at the same time.

Batman doesn't let himself be human anymore. That is the weakness that I see in the Bat-books right now.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 09:05 PM

But one can be moody without being an asshole, too.

Some would say my dad is.

Comes from his line of work.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 09:06 PM

Some would say my dad is.

Comes from his line of work.

Of course, everyone comes from a different POV.

megladon8

12-14-2005, 09:09 PM

Of course, everyone comes from a different POV.

Yes.

I almost find it ironic, though, that Superman, an alien, is basically alpha-human. Whereas Batman ceases to be one at all.

Choppa

12-14-2005, 09:16 PM

She can barely read, yes. But she can recognise clues, knows what questions to ask, and can read people very well. She's no worse than Dick.
(And don't bring up the computer, hers is set up for voice control and response.)

Despite how nice you make her handicap sound, it's still a handicap. Jean Paul is really smart and good with logic.

Chad G.

12-14-2005, 10:11 PM

Despite how nice you make her handicap sound, it's still a handicap. Jean Paul is really smart and good with logic.

I liked JPV, but he was a borderline schitzo with multiple personalities who talked to the ghost of his dead father.

And Batman doesn't kill. JPV was borderline there.

Guts/Batman

12-14-2005, 10:14 PM

I liked JPV, but he was a borderline schitzo with multiple personalities who talked to the ghost of his dead father.

And Batman doesn't kill. JPV was borderline there.

True.

He let two people die.

One which led to the next.

Gaz

12-15-2005, 02:36 AM

Despite how nice you make her handicap sound, it's still a handicap. Jean Paul is really smart and good with logic.
And as others just pointed out, Jean-Paul's is worse. He's very disturbed.
Cass has one problem, but it's a byproduct of an advantage she has.

Arkham Resident

12-15-2005, 03:53 AM

Cass could very well handle Gotham..

She just lacks Bruce's tendencies to be a Control-freak which borders to
paranoia sometimes. That tendecy proved an asset for Batman in a city like Gotham.

but in terms of cleaning the city up of thugs.. Cass can do it. Well, ' faster than the plot can allow', sorry Guts, i had to borrow that prhase. :D

Hell, Cass can even take on Bruce himself.

BTW, do you guys think Bruce was
holding back against Cassandra during the few times they sparred?

Chad G.

12-15-2005, 10:30 AM

BTW, do you guys think Bruce was
holding back against Cassandra during the few times they sparred?

I really don't know. According to the Rumbles crew, Cass is a legitimate bullet timer, which would be hard for Bruce to counter in HTH.

Choppa

12-15-2005, 12:06 PM

I liked JPV, but he was a borderline schitzo with multiple personalities who talked to the ghost of his dead father.

And Batman doesn't kill. JPV was borderline there.

And as others just pointed out, Jean-Paul's is worse. He's very disturbed.
Cass has one problem, but it's a byproduct of an advantage she has.

Which is why I said pre-Batman #500. His "crazyiness" was a purely editorial move that made no sense given the fact that he broke the old of the sysm in Sword of Azrael. He had to go and that was the easiest way to get him out. Notice how arbitrarily he switches from sane to insane?

Chad G.

12-15-2005, 04:31 PM

Notice how arbitrarily he switches from sane to insane?

Right. One of the major symptoms of split personality disorder. Choppa, he routinely talked to his dead fathers ghost. :confused:

Guts/Batman

12-15-2005, 04:39 PM

Right. One of the major symptoms of split personality disorder. Choppa, he routinely talked to his dead fathers ghost. :confused:

Some of that might have been before Scarecrow got him with his fear toxin.

But he was very disturbed before that. The Scarecrow toxin definitely didn't help. And we don't know how much effect it had on him.

Guts/Batman

12-15-2005, 04:39 PM

I really don't know. According to the Rumbles crew, Cass is a legitimate bullet timer, which would be hard for Bruce to counter in HTH.

Yea.

I think it is complete PIS that Batman was able to hit Cassandra (but I will not argue it here).

Choppa

12-15-2005, 05:08 PM

Right. One of the major symptoms of split personality disorder. Choppa, he routinely talked to his dead fathers ghost. :confused:

Maybe you aren't reading what I wrote. In my first post I said PRE-BATMAN #500 BEFORE it was decided that he was crazy. How many times do I have to say that.