Storm Question (Might be SPOILERS for some)

[the Hornet]

I really am deligted to see Cannonball back in the team and book. He was missed. But what's this I hear about Storm leaving Uncanny X-Men ? Any truth in it ?

[twilight]

I really am deligted to see Cannonball back in the team and book. He was missed. But what's this I hear about Storm leaving Uncanny X-Men ? Any truth in it ?

Yeah apparently she's leaving to go bump uglies with Black Panther in Wakanda.

[Beast]

Check House of M: The Day After for Storm's departure. :)

[the Hornet]

Gah! That sucks. I really hope Psylocke takes charge though. Hopefully Storm gets back soon.

[Beast]

I believe Nightcrawler is taking over leadership duties in Storm's wake.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

I believe Nightcrawler is taking over leadership duties in Storm's wake.

Didn't Nightcrawler mess up the last time he was leader? Not doubting his abilities just trying to remember

[Dizzy D]

Didn't Nightcrawler mess up the last time he was leader? Not doubting his abilities just trying to remember

He was *very* succesful as a leader of Excalibur for about 125 issues, so that should count for something. The only one coming close on the uncanny team is Cannonball and he probably is still "too new" to have the other X-men accept him as a leader.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

He was *very* succesful as a leader of Excalibur for about 125 issues, so that should count for something. The only one coming close on the uncanny team is Cannonball and he probably is still "too new" to have the other X-men accept him as a leader.


OK OK Calm down I wasn't trying to sully his good name. I just thought I remembered some problems he had when he was leader of one of the X-teams is all.

[Titan Slade]

Bishop led the X.S.E. in the future that he came from, so he would be a natural leader for the Uncanny team as well.

[Dizzy D]

OK OK Calm down I wasn't trying to sully his good name. I just thought I remembered some problems he had when he was leader of one of the X-teams is all.

No, that wasn't meant to be stressful. Just a bit of info.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

No, that wasn't meant to be stressful. Just a bit of info.

I know dude I just forgot the smiley at the end.

[Dizzy D]

I know dude I just forgot the smiley at the end.

Yeah, I never use smilies, so I'm afraid that people may not get the tone of things I'm saying either. Hence clarification.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

Yeah, I never use smilies, so I'm afraid that people may not get the tone of things I'm saying either. Hence clarification.


*smacks a laughing gas mask on Dizzy* Smile Dammit!



Oops here I go drifting the thread again.

[david r]

Didn't Nightcrawler mess up the last time he was leader? Not doubting his abilities just trying to remember

You must be thinking of around UXM #193, when Nightcrawler was team leader for a short time. Kurt did struggle with the task of team leader during a few issues there.

But that was 20 years ago. He really blossomed into the role during his Excalibur days and is a fine leader now.

[DDM]

Didn't Nightcrawler mess up the last time he was leader? Not doubting his abilities just trying to remember

Nightcrawler lead the X-Men in Storm's place when she took a temporary leave of absence to back to Africa for many months. He also lead Excalibur.

[Hi-Fi]

Oops here I go drifting the thread again.

It's a good thing that you know it. :evilsmile ;)

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

It's a good thing that you know it. :evilsmile ;)


Sometimes I need help. You always seem to fall for it too.:p

[Hi-Fi]

Sometimes I need help. You always seem to fall for it too.:p

No, i don't! :evilangry



So, yeah, Storm is leaving. And Nightcrawler is a perfect capable leader, Wolf. What were you thinking? :evilsmile

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

No, i don't! :evilangry



So, yeah, Storm is leaving. And Nightcrawler is a perfect capable leader, Wolf. What were you thinking? :evilsmile

I was thinking of a scene in one of the recent books (well maybe about a year ago or so) when Kurt is trying to priest and he was talking to Havok I think about he wasn't a good choice to lead a team. Like I said...I was just trying to remember if I had read that right...I wasn't saying he was a bad leader or even that I was remembering it correctly......:D

[Hi-Fi]

I was thinking of a scene in one of the recent books (well maybe about a year ago or so) when Kurt is trying to priest and he was talking to Havok I think about he wasn't a good choice to lead a team. Like I said...I was just trying to remember if I had read that right...I wasn't saying he was a bad leader or even that I was remembering it correctly......:D

Is that Austen? Cause i forced me to forget about all of his run. Although Casey was playing with the non-confident Kurt too.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

Is that Austen? Cause i forced me to forget about all of his run. Although Casey was playing with the non-confident Kurt too.

I'm really thinking it was during that time. Seems it was about the time of that Holy War crap when they found Jubilee and the others crucified on the lawn.

[Kal]

I don't understand; will Storm be featured in the Blanck Panther comics? I hope she comes back and joins the Astonishing team. The mere thought of Storm spending time with King T'Challa makes my skin crawl. Ugh! :mad: :p

[Crimson]

I don't understand; will Storm be featured in the Blanck Panther comics? I hope she comes back and joins the Astonishing team. The mere thought of Storm spending time with King T'Challa makes my skin crawl. Ugh! :mad: :p

The solicits haven't mention anything... but who knows what will happen after the Storm mini guest staring BP?

[fishtaco]

Bishop led the X.S.E. in the future that he came from, so he would be a natural leader for the Uncanny team as well.No he didn't. Hecate was the leader of Xavier's Security Enforcers.

I strongly dislike Black Panther, and I dislike his relationship with Storm. I will totally pass on the Storm mini series, especially since Storm just had a mini series maybe 3 months ago.

[Titan Slade]

No he didn't. Hecate was the leader of Xavier's Security Enforcers.



Well I should have said field leader, like what Cyclops was for the X-Men under Xavier.

[fishtaco]

Well I should have said field leader, like what Cyclops was for the X-Men under Xavier.The X.S.E. was a huge organization. Bishop entered the XSE as a student/cadet, and eventually became the leader of the Omega Squad, which included himself, Malcolm, Shard (sort of), and Randall.

Back to Storm's upcoming (mis)adventure...

[Smarty Jones]

"I strongly dislike Black Panther, and I dislike his relationship with Storm. I will totally pass on the Storm mini series, especially since Storm just had a mini series maybe 3 months ago."

And why would you have a problem with Storm being in a relationship with The Black Panther? This is a relationship that actually makes sense.

[fishtaco]

And why would you have a problem with Storm being in a relationship with The Black Panther? This is a relationship that actually makes sense.What relationships has she had that did not make sense?

[Beast]

And why would you have a problem with Storm being in a relationship with The Black Panther? This is a relationship that actually makes sense.
Why? Cause they're both black characters? My, arn't we progressive. :rolleyes:

[Erik Lehnsherr]

What relationships has she had that did not make sense?

Just put her with current mutant traitor..Pietro Maximoff.

[TimGunn]

But the new Storm mini is written by someone from outside of comics. And as we all know, writers from outside of comics are far superior to anyone who has industry experience.

[Smarty Jones]

"What relationships has she had that did not make sense?"

Pretty much all of them (Wolverine, Forge, Slipstream, that flirtation with that alien in "X-Treme X-Men," etc.).

"Why? Cause they're both black characters? My, arn't we progressive. :rolleyes:"

No, because they are two characters with an established history since their younger years, common life interests and backgrounds. Not only that, Storm needs to get out of The X-Men; you're talking about a character who has been stagnant for 20 years in the X-ghetto.

[fishtaco]

Just put her with current mutant traitor..Pietro Maximoff.That never happened. Pretty much all of them (Wolverine, Forge, Slipstream, that flirtation with that alien in "X-Treme X-Men," etc.).I can accept the Slipstream one, but Khan, Forge, and Wolverine all make sense. I wouldnt even call it romance between Khan and Storm. That was...something different. Wolverine and Storm started to become a lot closer since they have been teammates for years and years. And Forge? How exactly does that not make sense? If Storm is to have a relationship today, I hope it's with Forge.No, because they are two characters with an established history since their younger years, common life interests and backgrounds. Not only that, Storm needs to get out of The X-Men; you're talking about a character who has been stagnant for 20 years in the X-ghetto.The Black Panther/Storm relationship is way too forced. Take a look at how Marvel is trying to sell this to us. There's no basis.

[Smarty Jones]

"I can accept the Slipstream one, but Khan, Forge, and Wolverine all make sense. I wouldnt even call it romance between Khan and Storm. That was...something different. Wolverine and Storm started to become a lot closer since they have been teammates for years and years. And Forge? How exactly does that not make sense? If Storm is to have a relationship today, I hope it's with Forge."

Storm and Wolverine have incredibly distinct personalities and goals; it's basically a huge ideology class if there ever was one.

I never saw how the Forge one made sense, considering how much she deeply resented that he was the cause of her losing her mutant abilities in the first place. What commonalities did they really share?

[Beast]

Pretty much all of them (Wolverine, Forge, Slipstream, that flirtation with that alien in "X-Treme X-Men," etc.).

[color=darkred][font=arial]No, because they are two characters with an established history since their younger years, common life interests and backgrounds.
Storm has always been written as someone who doesn't see color when it comes to people she cares about. She looks below the surface, to the person beneath. Hence why she's bisexual, because she sees the person before the sex or skin color. It's nice to see the world being more progressive, since it's no longer scandelous to have Captain Kurt mack on Lt. Uhura. ;)

And I'll disagree with you about how much they have in common. I don't recall BP's earliest years being spent in New York. And he certainly didn't run with theives in Cairo as a child after his parents died. And just because she was later seen as a goddess by some African tribes, doesn't even come close to T'Challa who was raised a Prince and became King as a child. Who went off to America and studied and returned and made Wakanda a great city. Just because they're both black doesn't mean their lives were similar.

[Beast]

Storm and Wolverine have incredibly distinct personalities and goals; it's basically a huge ideology class if there ever was one.

I never saw how the Forge one made sense, considering how much she deeply resented that he was the cause of her losing her mutant abilities in the first place. What commonalities did they really share?
Yeah, and as they say.... opposites attract. :D

And she wasn't aware that it was Forge's device that caused her to lose her powers at the time.

[Smarty Jones]

"The Black Panther/Storm relationship is way too forced. Take a look at how Marvel is trying to sell this to us. There's no basis."

How is it forced? You're talking about two characters who have known each other since they were teen-agers and even fought a villain together. Their personalities seem to match up very well, and it's not like Storm has not visited T'Challa in recent years (her appearance in Christopher Priest's "Black Panther 25-27" is arguably the most grounded I have seen the character in years).

More importantly, Storm needs to get out of The X-Men. She's arguably been in the team longer than any other character, and there has not been any progression in her development since the days of Barry Windsor Smith. She's ironically has become what The Black Panther was in the 1970s Avengers -- little more than wallpaper.

[Beast]

How is it forced? You're talking about two characters who have known each other since they were teen-agers and even fought a villain together. Their personalities seem to match up very well, and it's not like Storm has not visited T'Challa in recent years (her appearance in Christopher Priest's "Black Panther 25-27" is arguably the most grounded I have seen the character in years).

More importantly, Storm needs to get out of The X-Men. She's arguably been in the team longer than any other character, and there has not been any progression in her development since the days of Barry Windsor Smith. She's ironically has become what The Black Panther was in the 1970s Avengers -- little more than wallpaper.
I'm sure Storm visits a lot of people she's friends with. It's not like she's jetting down there to bump uglies with him. Especially considering how repulsive she seems of him and his 'bodyguards' in the recent arc they were in together. The relationship is horribly forced. Other than that one teenage encounter, they don't have all that much in common as people. As for saying she's nothing more than Wallpaper, I think that's rather silly, given how much focus she's been getting as of late in X-Treme and Uncanny.

[Smarty Jones]

"Hence why she's bisexual, because she sees the person before the sex or skin color."

I thought Forge, Wolverine, Slipstream and Khan -- not to mention Cable and Nightcrawler, with whom she had dalliances -- were all MEN after all these years!

So let me get this right, Storm is suddenly bisexual when it comes to black men? Even though she's never had a same-sex relationship?

"And I'll disagree with you about how much they have in common. I don't recall BP's earliest years being spent in New York. And he certainly didn't run with theives in Cairo as a child after his parents died."

Storm moved out of Harlem as an infant, first of all (we're not going to mention The Black Panther once worked as a teacher in Harlem).

Second, a young Ororo Munroe and a young T'Challa met in "Marvel Team-Up 100," in a flashback story. The two even fought in an adventure together. It was only a few years ago that Storm ran to T'Challa's side during his conflict with the Deviant Lemurians in "Black Panther 25-27."

Call it what you like, but it's not like T'Challa and Storm were suddenly thrown together and they don't have any common history.

The majority of white characters in the Marvel Universe date other white characters, however most minority characters are in interracial relationships.

That's not saying there cannot be interracial relationships, but at the same time it would be nice to actually SEE a black couple in comic books.

[Smarty Jones]

"I'm sure Storm visits a lot of people she's friends with. It's not like she's jetting down there to bump uglies with him. Especially considering how repulsive she seems of him and his 'bodyguards' in the recent arc they were in together."

But is that the writer's fault, because Storm didn't have problems with The Black Panther's bodyguards and other trappings in "Black Panther 25-27." She went to comfort him when Wakanda was on the verge of a war, when security was at its highest.

I do not know who wrote the book in question to which you are referring, but it sounds horribly inconsistent with what transpired in Christopher Priest's handling of Storm (and in fact, with a lot of depictions of Storm).

BTW, Storm's and T'Challa's meeting in the Priest run ended with the two exchanging a very long kiss.

"The relationship is horribly forced. Other than that one teenage encounter, they don't have all that much in common as people. As for saying she's nothing more than Wallpaper, I think that's rather silly, given how much focus she's been getting as of late in X-Treme and Uncanny."

That common bond evidently was reinforced when Storm visited Wakanda in "BP 25-27," as stated above.

It's the same Storm I've been reading for the past 20 years, one with the same character growth at the end of the Barry Windsor Smith days. Putting her as the leader of a group doesn't change anything.

[Beast]

I thought Forge, Wolverine, Slipstream Khan and her dalliances with Cable and Nightcrawler were all MEN after all these years!
Yukio and Callisto arn't men, unless you're trying to suggest a retcon. And remember her obsession with Kitty Pryde, and jealousy that Stevie Hunter was close to Kitty. And given that Storm's greatest desire was to be with Yukio years ago. It wasn't Black Panther or someone else, it was to be with this lovely Japanese woman. ;)
Storm moved out of Harlem as an infant, first of all (we're not going to mention The Black Panther once worked as a teacher in Harlem).

Second, a young Ororo Munroe and a young T'Challa met in "Marvel Team-Up 100," in a flashback story. The two even fought in an adventure together. It was only a few years ago that Storm ran to T'Challa's side during his conflict with the Deviant Lemurians in "Black Panther 25-27."

Call it what you like, but it's not like T'Challa and Storm were suddenly thrown together and they don't have any common history.
Teaching in Harlem and being an infant in Harlem are very very different. Unless T'Challa was teaching when he was still crapping his huggies. They had one adventure together as teenagers. They weren't high school sweethearts, and didn't remain together. Just because she paled around with him a couple times, hardly makes them soul mates that have to be together. It's forced and rather silly, just because they're black characters.
The majority of white characters in the Marvel Universe date other white characters, however most minority characters are in interracial relationships.

That's not say there cannot be interracial relationships, but at the same time it would be nice to actually SEE a black couple in comic books.
Only because your grouping all white characters into one lump, and not even bothing to consider their backgrounds. Other than the original five X-Men for example, most of the other X-Men are not WASPs. So you're the one that is lumping anyone who's white into one group, instead of seeing them as individual people, who arn't just cookie cutter 'whities'. Kitty's Jewish, Kurt's German, Piotr's Russian, Wolverine's Canadian.

[Beast]

BTW, Storm's and T'Challa's meeting in the Priest run ended with the two exchanging a very long kiss.
And one kiss means that she's bound eternally to this man? My, we certainly are progressive arn't we. Maybe Storm should throw away her entire life so she can dedicate it to Black Panther. She can stay barefoot and pregnant and rub his shoulders after a hard day of being written as a horrible stereotype by Reggie Hudlin. After all, she was willing to kiss him, so she clearly was ready to settle down with him and become his concubine.

[Smarty Jones]

"Yukio and Callisto arn't men, unless you're trying to suggest a retcon."

Show us one panel where Storm and Yukio were a couple.

Storm and Callisto? The same Callisto that Storm STABBED IN THE HEART? The same Callisto who had a romantic fling with Colossus?!? Please, show us the pictures.

"And remember her obsession with Kitty Pryde, and jealousy that Stevie Hunter was close to Kitty."

Yeah, it was a case of Storm trying to be a surrgoate mother figure to a teen-ager. Her competition Stevie Hunter was basically the "Butterfly McQueen" syndrome. I'm sorry, that's clearly not a case of Storm having repressed lesbian feelings.

"Teaching in Harlem and being an infant in Harlem are very very different. Unless T'Challa was teaching when he was still crapping his huggies. They had one adventure together as teenagers."

I was referring to your comment insinuating The Black Panther has never been to Harlem. I wasn't trying to say T'Challa knew Storm as infants.

I didn't say T'Challa and Storm were soulmates, either, just that they have an established history together -- years before he became an Avenger and years before she became an X-Man. We also know that based on what happened in "Marvel Team-Up 100" there was an attraction between them then, one that progressed in "Black Panther 25-27."

"Only because your grouping all white characters into one lump, and not even bothing to consider their backgrounds. Other than the original five X-Men for example, most of the other X-Men are not WASPs. So you're the one that is lumping anyone who's white into one group, instead of seeing them as individual people. Kitty's Jewish, Kurt's German, Piotr's Russian, Wolverine's Canadian.

Wolverine, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler and Colossus have different NATIONALITIES, but they all are CAUCASIAN.

But even then, my comments were not about them or even isolated on the other X-Men. I'm talking about comic book characters in general. The majority of white characters are in same-race relationships and most of the minority characters (black, Asian, Hispanic) are not.

Evidently, there is a problem with seeing minority couples in relationships. Seeing Storm with a loser such as Slipstream "makes my skin crawl" a lot more than seeing her with one of the most respected and powerful characters in the Marvel Universe -- who, BTW, happens to be black.

[Smarty Jones]

"And one kiss means that she's bound eternally to this man? My, we certainly are progressive arn't we. Maybe Storm should throw away her entire life so she can dedicate it to Black Panther."

That's funny, I recall the first Storm even mentioned Slipstream as a long interest. It was in a psychic conference with Jean Grey and it was totally unannounced, out of the blue.

As a matter of fact, pretty much all her relationships came out of the blue. Hell, at least there is a previous history showing that Storm and The Black Panther initially were attracted to each other -- and that book came out 26 years ago.

And the kiss between the two happened in Christopher Priest's run.

[Hi-Fi]

C'mon Beast! Show the image with Storm and Callisto and Yukio taking a bath together!

[Beast]

Sorry Smarty, Storm has always been written and accepted as bisexual. I'm not fabricating lies, that's how Claremont established her for the 17+ years that he wrote her. Times being as they were of course, you only get the vague hints of what's there. Storm was very very close to Yukio, and when offered her fondest wish it was shown to be with Yukio. And let us not forget Storm, Callisto, and Yukio in the hot tub together in Storm: Arena.

Claremont couldn't even confirm Mystique and Destiny's relationship on panel, but you can see it there. And there are hints to follow, if you're not closed minded and willing to look below the surface. Storm's the most widely accepted bisexual X-Man, even though the evidence isn't firmly established due to the times that she was written. It's honestly a shame, given that it shows how much more depth Storm has as a character. Oh well, blame the times. Gays and Lesbians weren't exactly accepted characters back then, unless they were cheap stereotypes. Either limp wristed lisping sissy boys, or flaming queens.

As for Storm's established history with T'Challa, she has a great deal more established history with Logan than she does with BP. So why is her established history with Logan leading to possible romance so very very wrong, but one meeting as teenagers and later as adults means that they have no right to be with other people. Marvel Team-Up #100 and BP #25-27 are 4 measely issues out of 40+ years of comics. Hardly something that means that this is the only one Storm can ever be with. She's been in tons of issues with Wolverine, so what's wrong with that? Oh, cause he's white... got it. Clearly if it's black it's beautiful, but if it's white it's offensive.

Storm doesn't see sexuality or skin color biased when she's with people. She's above that, has been from the beginning. And so what if the majority of minority characters are not with people of the same color. I thought we were trying to move above seeing skin color as a marker for where you shoud be and who you should date.

[Smarty Jones]

"C'mon Beast! Show the image with Storm and Callisto and Yukio taking a bath together!"

I would like to know on what is all this animosity is based about seeing Storm in a possible relationship with The Black Panther.

Even before Reggie Hudlin's hack job, people were up in arms about seeing these two together. During Christopher Priest's run, I remember comic book readers making such degrading comments about T'Challa. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't The Black Panther one of the most respected characters in Marvel?

Maybe some people like the incestuous nature of the X-characters being involved and related to each other, I don't know. But I would like to hear something, because it really sounds like it's all about race.

[Beast]

C'mon Beast! Show the image with Storm and Callisto and Yukio taking a bath together!
I would if I had a scan of it. That wild Storm, she loves the tentacle action. :D

[Smarty Jones]

Even if Storm was bisexual, how does it eliminate the possibility of seeing her with a black man?

I'm sorry, but I didn't get in arms about Storm dating people of other race. I didn't start making disparaging remarks about the integrity of the characters in question. Not Wolverine, not Forge, not Slipstream -- NONE OF THEM. Were you as upset then when Storm was put in a relationship with them?

I could understand if this was Rage, Night Thrasher, Triathlon or The Prowler that Storm allegedly is dating -- characters with whom she does not have a history. But that clearly is not the case. Storm's history is far longer with T'Challa than it was with Slipstream and certainly did not start off with the fundamental differences she had with Wolverine and Forge.

[Hi-Fi]

I personally don't like the pairing. But there was a time when i'd love to see Storm and Bishop teogether.

It's not the fact that BP is black. Its the fact that he's BP.

[Beast]

Even if Storm was bisexual, how does it eliminate the possibility of seeing her with a black man?
Ororo Munroe. Primary evidence here is X-Men Annual #11, where her heart's desire is to run off with Yukio. Supplementary to this is the fact that she completely turned her life around after running around with her for an evening (UXM #172-173), and Contest of Champions II #1, where Yukio and Storm meet again. If you buy the Storm and Yukio relationship, Yukio seems all for it. Otherwise Storm's relationship with Forge has been difficult, but over a long period of time. Again, she could be bisexual.

And that doesn't even mention the hot tub scene, which was all kinds of erotic in how it was drawn with some of Callisto's tentacles below the water. And it doesn't eliminate the possibility of seeing her with a black man. I'm all for characters being with whoever seems appropriate. Forcing Black Panther and Storm down our throats because they're both black is silly and unneccessary. At least if she would have gotten with Bishop there would have been some reason there, beyond just color and a small meeting as teens. :)

As for Black Panther, he's one of the most respected superheroes in the Marvel Universe? I hardly think so. Given that most of his attention is focused on his own country, and he's hardly out there doing good for the world at large. And given that he's sitting on cures for diseases that could help other countries, he's hardly noble or heroic. Seems more like he just doesn't give a crap about anyone outside his own little world.

[Smarty Jones]

I personally don't like the pairing. But there was a time when i'd love to see Storm and Bishop teogether. So there you go. ;)"

It makes sense by the fact there has been historical animosity on this board seeing Storm with The Black Panther, before you joined CBR.

I don't know on what this conclusion is being made about The Black Panther, since I don't know what you have read about T'Challa. But what I do know is that for whatever reason, his name brings up the most animosity even though historically (i.e. outside The X-Men) these two have been shown having a lot in common and a very good relationship.

[Sentinel K]

I just don't think Storm would go at all well with Black Panther.

Admittedly I haven't read much Black Panther material, but I really didn't like the character much.

Although I don't think they should be together, Storm and wolverine seems like a better match. They've known each other for years now and know each 0other so well.

From past X-men issues, I always thought Storm and Forge would have been great together. And later it seemed that maybe something might have happened with Bishop which would have been cool too.

I just don't see it between Ororo and T'challa.

But we'll see.

And that was my 2 cents! :D

[Smarty Jones]

"He's one of the most respected superheroes in the Marvel Universe? Heh, I hardly think so. Given that most of his attention is focused on his own country, and he's hardly out there doing good for the world at large. And given that he's sitting on cures for diseases that could help other countries, he's hardly noble or heroic. Seems more like he just doesn't give a crap."

I'm sorry, but that's Reggie Hudlin's poor retconning of T'Challa. The Black Panther historically has been one of the most respected superheroes in the Marvel Universe; the image Hudlin is painting is a horribly inaccurate and butchered portrayal of the character.

If that is the only exposure you have had of T'Challa, that's one thing. But this issue of Storm and T'Challa has been a heated issue on CBR way before that reboot.

As for the innuendo about Storm's bisexuality, that's a case of you reading a little too much into something. Even if it was true -- and unless it's clearly stated in a book that she is, and I see no reason why it would not be in an age where creators are graphically pushing the envelope -- it doesn't excuse the possibility of Storm dating a black man.

[Crimson]

I would if I had a scan of it. That wild Storm, she loves the tentacle action. :D

Was this the Storm arc in X-Treme X-Men by any chance?

That was a cool arc, although I loved most of X-Treme so I'm kinda biased.

[Smarty Jones]

"I just don't think Storm would go at all well with Black Panther.

Admittedly I haven't read much Black Panther material, but I really didn't like the character much.

Although I don't think they should be together, Storm and wolverine seems like a better match. They've known each other for years now and know each 0other so well.

From past X-men issues, I always thought Storm and Forge would have been great together. And later it seemed that maybe something might have happened with Bishop which would have been cool too.

I just don't see it between Ororo and T'challa.

But we'll see.

And that was my 2 cents! :D"

Then it makes it all the more clear that Storm needs to be removed from The X-Men. The incestuous and ghettocentric nature of that part of Marvel makes it hard for her to get development.

[atoningunifex]

I would like to know on what is all this animosity is based about seeing Storm in a possible relationship with The Black Panther.

Even before Reggie Hudlin's hack job, people were up in arms about seeing these two together. During Christopher Priest's run, I remember comic book readers making such degrading comments about T'Challa. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't The Black Panther one of the most respected characters in Marvel?

Maybe some people like the incestuous nature of the X-characters being involved and related to each other, I don't know. But I would like to hear something, because it really sounds like it's all about race.


I don't have any great animosity for it, but the timing of it and the method of it seem to be taking away from Storm's character.

Storm has long been one of the mainstays of the X-men and a team leader for much of her time with them. She is passionately concerned with human/mutant interaction and started the XSE in order to keep the world safe for both mutants and humans. The X-Men are her family and friends.

And now, at a time when the mutant world is reeling from the whole decimation thing and sentinels are camped outside the X-Mansion and her family and friands ahve been thrust into an amazingly difficult situation, Storm is abandoning them to fly off and be the Black Panther's girlfriend.

I don't actually give a good goddamn who she fucks, but I don't think the move works with the established portrayal of the character for the last five years.

Now I could end up being wrong about that. This could be part of some plan of hers to set up a mutant sanctuary or something. But it feels like it's more about the two of them hooking up.

[Sentinel K]

Then it makes it all the more clear that Storm needs to be removed from The X-Men. The incestuous and ghettocentric nature of that part of Marvel makes it hard for her to get development.

Whats wrong with her being with another mutant?

[Beast]

Was this the Storm arc in X-Treme X-Men by any chance?

That was a cool arc, although I loved most of X-Treme so I'm kinda biased.
Yeah, Storm: Arena. I loved X-Treme also, really need to dig it back out and read again.

And Smarty, they still won't allow confirmation of Mystique and Destiny's relationship, and Destiny's been pushing up daisies and decomposed in the ground for years. They're not going to let CC or anyone finally reveal bluntly on panel that Storm bats for both teams. :p

[Smarty Jones]

"I don't have any great animosity for it, but the timing of it and the method of it seem to be taking away from Storm's character.

Storm has long been one of the mainstays of the X-men and a team leader for much of her time with them. She is passionately concerned with human/mutant interaction and started the XSE in order to keep the world safe for both mutants and humans. The X-Men are her family and friends.

And now, at a time when the mutant world is reeling from the whole decimation thing and sentinels are camped outside the X-Mansion and her family and friands ahve been thrust into an amazingly difficult situation, Storm is abandoning them to fly off and be the Black Panther's girlfriend."

Given the sheer size of The X-Men family -- three teams, not to mention the various units of the X-Corporation -- Storm will be missed from a relational standpoint. However, it is time for Ororo Munroe to move away from The X-Men family. It also would give a chance for the numerous other characters to share a little more of the spotlight.

Considering that Wolverine is in both The X-Men (and to my recollection, two units) AND The Avengers, I don't see how Storm leaving is straining more credibility than what Logan is doing.

[Smarty Jones]

"Whats wrong with her being with another mutant?"

I didn't say I have a problem with Storm being with another mutant. I said Storm has been a confined and creatively stifled character, and such a change could be good for her character development.

I personally would like for Storm and some of the other characters to move out of the X-Men umbrella, particularly if it gives them a chance to develop.

"And Smarty, they still won't allow confirmation of Mystique and Destiny's relationship, and Destiny's been pushing up daisies and decomposed in the ground for years. They're not going to let CC or anyone finally reveal bluntly on panel that Storm bats for both teams. :p"

Why not? In an era where creators are using all types of shock value -- from graphic violence and mature content to salacious sexuality -- I can see Storm's revelation actually as being tame.

If you can see that Storm being in a hot tub with two women as a veiled inference to lesbianism, then what do you say about most minority characters in comic books not being in relationships with people of the same race?

[Beast]

Cause it seems like she just doesn't care.

Storm: "Oh, 96% of the world's mutant population has lost their powers!? Times are stressful for humans and mutants alike. It's time to pull together to form a united front and try to keep things from getting worse out there. Hmmm, what should I do. Well, Black Panther's cute, maybe I'll stay in Africa and not care about my family at home. Tee Hee."

[Smarty Jones]

"Storm: 'Oh, 96% of the world's mutant population has lost their powers!? Times are stressful for humans and mutants alike. It's time to pull together to form a united front and try to keep things from getting worse out there. Hmmm, what should I do. Well, Black Panther's cute, maybe I'll stay in Africa and not care about my family at home. Tee Hee.'"

It doesn't seem to be an issue with Charles Xavier, and it's his cause. Last I understood, Professor X is among the missing and there are a slew of X-Men and associates who can march on.

Evidently, you have an issue with how it was explained that Storm was leaving. I personally don't see why that has to be a burden placed solely on her back. How many X-Men have left the team after major storylines in the past?

[Uncle Nobs]

I think the reason why many fans have reacted badly to the Ororo/T'Challa pairing is actually fairly innocent--and even kind of respectable. It's not so much that fans don't want to see her paired with a black man. It's more that fans fear that she is being paired with a black man just because she's black. To me, that seems like an enlightened view (not necessarily the correct view, but enlightened) and certainly not racist.

However, I agree with you that many fans aren't looking at the characters and asking themselves honestly if these two would be drawn to each other. I think they would. They have similar backgrounds. They are children of Africa who have grown into citizens of the world entire. Each sees him-/herself as being a ruler, a maker of the world, someone who actively forges the future by getting their hands dirty and getting things DONE.

But the other problem that fans have with this pairing is that it is very clearly editorially driven. We are seeing their romance bloom in several books, all by different writers, all released strategically. Worse, their childhood friendship was retconned into existence. It feels forced--but only due to the approach, not due to the characters themselves.

I need to pick up the Christopher Priest story Smarty referenced. I LOVE Priest and I'd like to see this relationship handled as more than an editorial mandate.

And you know what? It probably does help that they're both black. I know it makes some of us nervous that that might appear to some people to be the ONLY reason they are together, but we need to trust that readers would see more than just that.

Storm is known for breaking boundaries. Politically, she reaches across race & species boundaries. Sexually, she reaches across race & gender boundaries. (She is bisexual. It is documented in comics and in interviews with Claremont. Of course the comics can only hint at it, just as they have only hinted at Destiny & Mystique's relationship. The industry still fears the torch- & pitchfork-wielding mobs.)

But still, it's okay for her to be drawn to an extremely strong, regal, responsible, black, African man. For all her growth, it is okay for her to be drawn to her roots.

I only wish it hadn't been editorially forced and retconned into canon. I wish she had first met him now, as they are both at the peaks of their careers, trying to create balance when things are the most unsteady. I would love for them to be just blown away by each other, drawn to each other unexpectedly, wondering why they had never met before, trying not to get involved because a romantic entanglement is the last thing either of them needs, but unable to stay away.

[atoningunifex]

Given the sheer size of The X-Men family -- three teams, not to mention the various units of the X-Corporation -- Storm will be missed from a relational standpoint. However, it is time for Ororo Munroe to move away from The X-Men family. It also would give a chance for the numerous other characters to share a little more of the spotlight.

Considering that Wolverine is in both The X-Men (and to my recollection, two units) AND The Avengers, I don't see how Storm leaving is straining more credibility than what Logan is doing.

Well, Logan is in every book. Storm was in Uncanny and now she's not. She's left the mansion and the team. As I understood it she's coming back for three issues and then leaving pretty much for good.

As for it being time to move her away from the X-Men books- that's a judgement call. I'm pretty much through with the X-Books again anyway, so I'm not super worked up over it. But Ororo leaving in the middle of a crisis like this really puts a bit of tarnish on the character. it's akin to Cyclops leaving Maddie and the kid to go hang out with Jean at the beginning of X-Factor. It's one of those "huh what?" moments for a character. I'm all for character growth and change. But I think the transition from book to book could be handled better.

I'm not saying that there isn't room to expand her outside the X-Universe. I think one of her strengths as a character is that she has an active circle of firends and acquaintances outside the team. And this is Marvel, it isn't like this is going to last forever. I just think the timing of it is off in regards to her character.

[Brian M.]

It doesn't seem to be an issue with Charles Xavier, and it's his cause. Last I understood, Professor X is among the missing and there are a slew of X-Men and associates who can march on.

Evidently, you have an issue with how it was explained that Storm was leaving. I personally don't see why that has to be a burden placed solely on her back. How many X-Men have left the team after major storylines in the past?

But they never left after a crisis like this. It was always "ooooh the mansion is destroyed and nothing is left". This time there are about 200 mutants left. This is something they've never faced. Storm is suppose to be a leader yet she had cut and run several times, forming the Xtreme X-Men and just now she just up and leaves when something happens she does like.

[Uncle Nobs]

It doesn't seem to be an issue with Charles Xavier, and it's his cause. Last I understood, Professor X is among the missing and there are a slew of X-Men and associates who can march on.

Evidently, you have an issue with how it was explained that Storm was leaving. I personally don't see why that has to be a burden placed solely on her back. How many X-Men have left the team after major storylines in the past?
Yeah, but the last several years (specifically in X-Treme) have set her up as a new kind of leader. She rebelled against Xavier. She created the XSE. She is creating her own plans, her own allies, her own new world.

It does seem dumb for her to run off now. I could only believe it as a shock reaction, as if the whole Decimation thing has reminded her of when she lost her powers and her only response is to escape. Still, I thought she would face problems like this head-on. She has grown a lot since the days when she lost her powers.

[Titan76]

Then it makes it all the more clear that Storm needs to be removed from The X-Men. The incestuous and ghettocentric nature of that part of Marvel makes it hard for her to get development.
Why does an X-man always have to be the one who has to leave? Storm has a very long relationship with the X-men, they are her friends, family, and she is their number 2 leader. If you think Storm should leave the X-men how about Iron Man, the Wasp or hell why not even Captain America leaving the Avenger book to get better exposure and more development in the X-books?

The X-books deal more with race then any other Marvel or DC book does anyway. Did you forget that Angel had dated and was in love with a black woman and Iceman with an asian? I for one don't have nothing against seeing more black with black, asian with asian, mexican with mexican or white with whatever as long as it makes sense and is well writen. So far BP and Storm doesn't really make sense to me but neither does the Scott and Emma relationship. If Marvel took more time to set things up for Storm and BP and if it was a right time for Storm to leave the X-men I wouldn't have a problem with this. I think Bishop and Storm would be better right now then Storm and BP but that's just me.

[Beast]

Yeah, but the last several years (specifically in X-Treme) have set her up as a new kind of leader. She rebelled against Xavier. She created the XSE. She is creating her own plans, her own allies, her own new world.

It does seem dumb for her to run off now. I could only believe it as a shock reaction, as if the whole Decimation thing has reminded her of when she lost her powers and her only response is to escape. Still, I thought she would face problems like this head-on. She has grown a lot since the days when she lost her powers.
Exactly. She's grown so much since then. And it's like they're trying to turn back the clock to a point where she didn't have such close ties to the X-Men. This is a massive time of crisis, and for her to just leave like that with no real goodbye seems forced. Well, of course it does... it's editorial forced. Hopefully when Storm appears during the next Uncanny arc, she makes her departure at least seem to make sense. If not, it seems like she's abandoning her friends and family at a time when they need competant leaders the most.

[Smarty Jones]

"But the other problem that fans have with this pairing is that it is very clearly editorially driven. We are seeing their romance bloom in several books, all by different writers, all released strategically. Worse, their childhood friendship was retconned into existence. It feels forced--but only due to the approach, not due to the characters themselves."

The Black Panther's and Storm's first meeting was shown in a flashback story in 1979 (three years after Storm was created), so it's not like something that just turned up.

Also, it's hard to call it a retcon when it didn't correct any previous material, because nothing about Storm's past was explained when "Marvel Team-Up 100" happened. New material that doesn't contradict anything does not sound like a retcon to me.

"But they never left after a crisis like this. It was always 'ooooh the mansion is destroyed and nothing is left.' This time there are about 200 mutants left. This is something they've never faced. Storm is suppose to be a leader yet she had cut and run several times, forming the Xtreme X-Men and just now she just up and leaves when something happens she does like."

The X-Men always have had major events where key members left and still were resilient. Charles Xavier was arrested for his role in "Onslaught" and taken away, while mutants were hunted down. Jean Grey left the team for a short time after "The Twelve," and Xavier leaves the planet to train mutant Skrulls. And so on and so on.

The X-Men have plenty of members and associates, so Storm is hardly leaving them to hang out to dry.

[Smarty Jones]

"As for it being time to move her away from the X-Men books- that's a judgement call. I'm pretty much through with the X-Books again anyway, so I'm not super worked up over it. But Ororo leaving in the middle of a crisis like this really puts a bit of tarnish on the character. it's akin to Cyclops leaving Maddie and the kid to go hang out with Jean at the beginning of X-Factor. It's one of those 'huh what?' moments for a character. I'm all for character growth and change. But I think the transition from book to book could be handled better."

C'mon, Cyclops leaving his wife and son because his ex-lover comes back from the dead is a lot different than a member of a paramilitary superhuman team leaving a group that has numerous resources.

Like you said, there was a transition with Storm leaving, coming back for a short time and then leaving again. Once again, we've got a character who is hardly doing something unprecedented in X-Men history. She left the team to recharge her battery after a major event -- the same thing characters like Cyclops, Jean Grey and Professor Xavier have done.

[Blackcat]

Many times a major xcharacter did leave the team: Storm did before, as did Rogue for two times, Cyclops and Jean did, Xavier did, etc etc. So the can take a break and I would do the same. Saving the world time after time is a making you very stressfull sometimes. What do you think after a long time of stress: I need a break. So don't be pissed if an X-Men want's a break too.

[Smarty Jones]

"Why does an X-man always have to be the one who has to leave? Storm has a very long relationship with the X-men, they are her friends, family, and she is their number 2 leader. If you think Storm should leave the X-men how about Iron Man, the Wasp or hell why not even Captain America leaving the Avenger book to get better exposure and more development in the X-books?"

At the same time, from an editorial standpoint, why have all the X-characters hogged up in one corner of the universe? The X-universe is too congested, with some otherwise good characters stuck in limbo or underdeveloped because of Marvel policy.

If anything, Storm's leaving could allow some other characters to shine. More importantly, some creators could use some characters they wanted to use but felt obligated to keep a Storm in the book. There have been several creators who seemed indifferent in using Storm, but had to use her.

The Avengers have had major stories where Captain America, Iron Man and The Wasp have left the teams for periods. The Wasp isn't on the team now, and Cap and Iron Man definitely have left for personal reasons. Also, Cap and Iron Man have solo books to where their stars can shine even more -- Storm is stuck in a rut that seemingly requires Wolverine to be seen in every book, among with the normal constraints.

"The X-books deal more with race then any other Marvel or DC book does anyway. Did you forget that Angel had dated and was in love with a black woman and Iceman with an asian?"

No, it merely illustrates my point about minority characters and their relationships in comics.

[Beast]

Many times a major xcharacter did leave the team: Storm did before, as did Rogue for two times, Cyclops and Jean did, Xavier did, etc etc. So the can take a break and I would do the same. Saving the world time after time is a making you very stressfull sometimes. What do you think after a long time of stress: I need a break. So don't be pissed if an X-Men want's a break too.
Yeah, but she's not taking a break because of something like that. She's taking a break due to Editorial Mandate. When everything about her character says that she'd be there for her friends and family. Those other examples you're talking about are mostly personal crisises or a more important purpose. Storm has neither of these going for her right now. Her leaving is out of character on a profound level.

[Smarty Jones]

"It does seem dumb for her to run off now. I could only believe it as a shock reaction, as if the whole Decimation thing has reminded her of when she lost her powers and her only response is to escape. Still, I thought she would face problems like this head-on. She has grown a lot since the days when she lost her powers."

And Charles Xavier has left his charges numerous times after a major event. So has Cyclops, Wolverine and Jean Grey -- and I don't recall The X-Men folding shop when they left. If anything, The X-Men have more resources and associates than ever before. Why can't Storm take a break?

[Crimson]

And Charles Xavier has left his charges numerous times after a major event. So has Cyclops, Wolverine and Jean Grey -- and I don't recall The X-Men folding shop when they left. If anything, The X-Men have more resources and associates than ever before. Why can't Storm take a break?

What major event?

Storm said she was leaving in Black Panther #9... which was before HoM.

[Smarty Jones]

"Yeah, but she's not taking a break because of something like that. She's taking a break due to Editorial Mandate."

All characters who have left teams after major events leave because of editorial mandate. I don't care if it's Wolverine, Cyclops, Professor Xavier, Captain America, Iron Man -- a creator made the decision with editorial approval to make the move.

Again, why is this a negative issue concerning Storm?

[Smarty Jones]

"What major event?

Storm said she was leaving in Black Panther #9... which was before HoM."

Which makes this argument even more silly, then, because it wasn't like Storm was an X-Man when "House of M" started, right?

When do you all feel if there EVER would be a time where Storm could leave The X-Men?

[Crimson]

Which makes this argument even more silly, then, because it wasn't like Storm was an X-Man when "House of M" started, right?

When do you all feel if there EVER would be a time where Storm could leave The X-Men?

I would of been more happy if Storm has left for some reason cause of HoM... but the first time it was mentioned it was because Storm had just spent 4 issues running around flirting and kissing BP and then announced she was staying (Although she didn't seem to tell Cyclops and she seemed to have changed her reason come HoM: The Day After).

[Smarty Jones]

"I would of been more happy if Storm has left for some reason cause of HoM... but the first time it was mentioned it was because Storm had just spent 4 issues running around flirting and kissing BP and then announced she was staying."

So, let me get this right:

Storm leaves The X-Men, because she got involved with a character.

She leaves before a major storyline happens.

And now some people are mad because she won't leave what she is doing and join The X-Men in yet another obligatory "crisis for mutants" -- even though X-Men have left the team in the past BECAUSE OF that crisis?

[Crimson]

So, let me get this right:

Storm leaves The X-Men, because she got involved with a character.

She leaves before a major storyline happens.

And now some people are mad because she won't leave what she is doing and join The X-Men in yet another obligatory "crisis for mutants" -- even though X-Men have left the team in the past BECAUSE OF that crisis?

It does seem a bit out of character that Storm wouldn't leave frolicking with Black Panther to come home and help her friends (Almost her family) in a great time of need.

Although to be honest with Marvel time line I'm not sure what is her reason for staying. We've got two... one from Hudlin and one from Claremont.

[Titan76]

[QUOTE=Smarty Jones]At the same time, from an editorial standpoint, why have all the X-characters hogged up in one corner of the universe? The X-universe is too congested, with some otherwise good characters stuck in limbo or underdeveloped because of Marvel policy.
The X-universe is too big right now for any other character to have their own book and right now with the mutant population under 200 people WORLDWIDE Storm is most need in the X-books. After this event is taken care of then and things get back to normal then that's fine but right now she should not be leaving.
If anything, Storm's leaving could allow some other characters to shine. More importantly, some creators could use some characters they wanted to use but felt obligated to keep a Storm in the book. There have been several creators who seemed indifferent in using Storm, but had to use her.
Storm shine really big under Claremont's first run in Uncanny and the fact that she wasn't given a solo title is on Marvel. Many of us would have love to see Storm get her own book but first Marvel needs to axe some other X-books because there are already too many.
The Avengers have had major stories where Captain America, Iron Man and [QUOTE]The Wasp have left the teams for periods. The Wasp isn't on the team now, and Cap and Iron Man definitely have left for personal reasons.
No, Cap and Iron Man have not left the team. Have you not seen the new Avenger line up? Why can't one of them come to the X-books or any other Avenger since it always has to be an X-man? The X-men is Marvel main book not the Avengers.
Also, Cap and Iron Man have solo books to where their stars can shine even more -- Storm is stuck in a rut that seemingly requires Wolverine to be seen in every book, among with the normal constraints.
Other X-men have had their own books as well Gambit, Bashiop, Rogue, and Nightcrawler but were axe because of there being too many X-books to buy so they didn't sell well.

No, it merely illustrates my point about minority characters and their relationships in comics.
No offense, but maybe then you should take this problem you have about this to Marvel rather here. Nobody here is against minority relationships that I have seen, we are just against reationships to us that seem force and don't make much sense no matter what their race is(I think Scott and Emma's relationship is the worse and most force one in comics right now). I for one would also like to see more minority relationships so long as they are done right, make sense, and don't seem force. And this goes for any relationship.

[Uncle Nobs]

The Black Panther's and Storm's first meeting was shown in a flashback story in 1979 (three years after Storm was created), so it's not like something that just turned up.
I did not know that. Y'learn sumpin' new everyday. I'd assumed that was a recent story. Wasn't there a more recent issue of MTU or a similar title where they did a flashback story?

Anyway, that certainly puts a new spin on things for me. I wonder why it was ignored for so long...?

[Titan76]

So, let me get this right:

Storm leaves The X-Men, because she got involved with a character.

She leaves before a major storyline happens.

And now some people are mad because she won't leave what she is doing and join The X-Men in yet another obligatory "crisis for mutants" -- even though X-Men have left the team in the past BECAUSE OF that crisis?
Because its like saying that Captain America won't go to World War 3 because he wants to stay at home with his girlfriend. This Crisis is not like any other major Event that has happen to the X-men. Their RACE is down to about less then 200 mutants(it hasn't never been this low since the Stan Lee days) and they need her now more then ever. If she was to go back to BP after this was over then okay, but to say to the X-men you are not important to me right now BP is, is stuiped to me.

[Smarty Jones]

"The X-universe is too big right now for any other character to have their own book and right now with the mutant population under 200 people WORLDWIDE Storm is most need in the X-books. After this event is taken care of then and things get back to normal then that's fine but right now she should not be leaving."

I disagree that Storm is needed in a world where there are three X-Men teams and The X-Corporation, which essentially mimics what The X-Men did. There are still too many blasted characters in the X-Universe, to the point where a lot of characters were killed off or put in limbo simply because Marvel did not want the X-editors to share their toys.

"Storm shine really big under Claremont's first run in Uncanny and the fact that she wasn't given a solo title is on Marvel. Many of us would have love to see Storm get her own book but first Marvel needs to axe some other X-books because there are already too many."

Chris Claremont's initial run on "Uncanny X-Men" started in the 1970s, though. Storm essentially has been the same character since the mid-1980s.

I don't understand the logic of wanting Storm to have a solo book when you don't want her to leave the X-ghetto. I personally would not want to read another book that's going to be X-Men related.

"No, Cap and Iron Man have not left the team. Have you not seen the new Avenger line up?"

Captain America and Iron Man have left The Avengers in the past, and for extended periods. Storm has been an X-Man in some or fashion nearly non-stop for 30 years. If the two signature characters associated with The Avengers can afford to take a break from the team, why can't arguably The X-Men's sixth most important character?

"No offense, but maybe then you should take this problem you have about this to Marvel rather here. Nobody here is against minority relationships that I have seen, we are just against reationships to us that seem force and don't make much sense no matter what their race is(I think Scott and Emma's relationship is the worse and most force one in comics right now)."

All comic book relationships are the result of what the creators want to do, though. That part is not different whether it's a same-race couple or a minority couple. However, I find it interesting these "forced" comments only come up when it's the discussion of minority couples.

That's sounds like an issue with the readers than with the creators.

[Tre Styles]

I think the reason why many fans have reacted badly to the Ororo/T'Challa pairing is actually fairly innocent--and even kind of respectable. It's not so much that fans don't want to see her paired with a black man. It's more that fans fear that she is being paired with a black man just because she's black. To me, that seems like an enlightened view (not necessarily the correct view, but enlightened) and certainly not racist.

However, I agree with you that many fans aren't looking at the characters and asking themselves honestly if these two would be drawn to each other. I think they would. They have similar backgrounds. They are children of Africa who have grown into citizens of the world entire. Each sees him-/herself as being a ruler, a maker of the world, someone who actively forges the future by getting their hands dirty and getting things DONE.

But the other problem that fans have with this pairing is that it is very clearly editorially driven. We are seeing their romance bloom in several books, all by different writers, all released strategically. Worse, their childhood friendship was retconned into existence. It feels forced--but only due to the approach, not due to the characters themselves.

I need to pick up the Christopher Priest story Smarty referenced. I LOVE Priest and I'd like to see this relationship handled as more than an editorial mandate.

And you know what? It probably does help that they're both black. I know it makes some of us nervous that that might appear to some people to be the ONLY reason they are together, but we need to trust that readers would see more than just that.

Storm is known for breaking boundaries. Politically, she reaches across race & species boundaries. Sexually, she reaches across race & gender boundaries. (She is bisexual. It is documented in comics and in interviews with Claremont. Of course the comics can only hint at it, just as they have only hinted at Destiny & Mystique's relationship. The industry still fears the torch- & pitchfork-wielding mobs.)

But still, it's okay for her to be drawn to an extremely strong, regal, responsible, black, African man. For all her growth, it is okay for her to be drawn to her roots.

I only wish it hadn't been editorially forced and retconned into canon. I wish she had first met him now, as they are both at the peaks of their careers, trying to create balance when things are the most unsteady. I would love for them to be just blown away by each other, drawn to each other unexpectedly, wondering why they had never met before, trying not to get involved because a romantic entanglement is the last thing either of them needs, but unable to stay away.

Exactly. Y'all need to listen to Uncle Nobs.... ;)

[Smarty Jones]

"I did not know that. Y'learn sumpin' new everyday. I'd assumed that was a recent story. Wasn't there a more recent issue of MTU or a similar title where they did a flashback story?

Anyway, that certainly puts a new spin on things for me. I wonder why it was ignored for so long...?"

The Black Panther-Storm story in "Marvel Team-Up 100" was the back story of the first appearance of the mutant Karma, who teamed up with The Fantastic Four to stop her evil twin. The book came out some time in 1979.

The Black Panther spent the entire 1980s in limbo and given the insular nature of The X-Men, I imagine that's why that particular footnote is being overlooked.

I recommend getting your hands on "Black Panther 25-27" written by Christopher Priest. It touches on their first meeting, and shows even as children there was a more than a passing flirtation.

[Smarty Jones]

"Because its like saying that Captain America won't go to World War 3 because he wants to stay at home with his girlfriend. This Crisis is not like any other major Event that has happen to the X-men. Their RACE is down to about less then 200 mutants(it hasn't never been this low since the Stan Lee days) and they need her now more then ever."

Really, what makes The X-Men NEED Storm more than ever? They have more members than ever and more allies than ever.

There are no major threats in the X-universe. Magneto has no powers. Apocalypse is still dead. Mister Sinister has not been a player for years. The Juggernaut and Emma Frost are X-MEN, for goodness sakes!

No, what would be silly is to establish the fact that Storm leaves The X-Men because she is in a committed relationship and then dump the relationship at the first sign of trouble. How well do you think that would go over with someone who was a member of The Avengers?

"Sorry, but there are fewer mutants. I know it's OK for Professor Xavier, Wolverine, Cyclops and Jean Grey to leave the team after a crisis, but I'm obligated to join them even though I left the team knowing that this could happen. For some reason, more is expected of me than for the other ones."

[Titan76]

[QUOTE=Smarty Jones]I disagree that Storm is needed in a world where there are three X-Men teams and The X-Corporation, which essentially mimics what The X-Men did.
X-Corporation is no longer around since there are only 200 mutants left in the world. And Storm is needed right now because she is the X-men's number 2 leader and besides Cyclops, Xavier, Jean, and maybe Emma she is one of their most important members and since Xavier and Jean are gone she is really needed.
There are still too many blasted characters in the X-Universe, to the point where a lot of characters were killed off or put in limbo simply because Marvel did not want the X-editors to share their toys.
Oh yeah and there is a small total number of Avengers.:rolleyes: I do think the X-men need to get out of their book more but so do the Avengers.


Chris Claremont's initial run on "Uncanny X-Men" started in the 1970s, though. Storm essentially has been the same character since the mid-1980s.
His initial run lasted until 1994 and when it comes to saying that a character has been the same person for years this would more likely apply to almost every character in comics.
I don't understand the logic of wanting Storm to have a solo book when you don't want her to leave the X-ghetto. I personally would not want to read another book that's going to be X-Men related.
The same reason Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America have a solo and don't really ever leave the Avenger-ghetto.


Captain America and Iron Man have left The Avengers in the past, and for extended periods. Storm has been an X-Man in some or fashion nearly non-stop for 30 years. If the two signature characters associated with The Avengers can afford to take a break from the team, why can't arguably The X-Men's sixth most important character?
Storm has also left the X-men in the past as well. Infact I think she has left the X-men 2 or 3 times to do personal things, one lasted for about 1 or two our time. Captain America I don't think has left the Avengers for a long period of time, though I may be wrong.

However, I find it interesting these "forced" comments only come up when it's the discussion of minority couples.
Name some other couples please? And I guess you didn't see my comment about Scott and Emma being the most forced couple right now both whom are white.
That's sounds like an issue with the readers than with the creators.[/color][/font]
No its not, I don't care about race and would like to see more minority couples in comic books but I don't want to see a force couple no matter what the race is. Storm and BP could work right if its done right and I will be glad if that happens but right now I don't see them as a couple but that could change. Like I said earlier I think Storm and Bashiop should have gotton together not Storm and BP.

[Tre Styles]

Okay, I just re-read the scene in the Decimation One Shot on Storm leaving.....It never, ever states that she's "abandoning" the team. As a matter of fact, she asks for HER part of the X-Team to come with her to Africa. Scott refuses that idea.Storm disagrees and says that this event(Decimation) is GLOBAL, and the concerns in Africa, the needs there are just as great. She also suggests that she DOES need her time and space, but at the same time gathering all the X-Men in one place doesn't make sense to her. She says that they need to become pro-active. Cyclops says "it's his call", to which Ororo says it's better that since she disagrees with him and the team needs to have confidence in its leaders, that it is truly better for her to stay away, rather than causing a conflict within the team. She rather not undermine his(and Emma's) authority in front of the others.
This shows a level of maturity on Storm's part, and also shows that she respects andcares more about the X-Men as a whole and functioning unit. She also tells Cyke that he knows how to reach her in case they need her.....so in re-reading this page, I see nothing of her actually "abandoning" the X-Men. It's another case of Cyke and Emma doing what they THINk is right, and the same with Ororo. Cyke could've sent Ororo's squad or what have you down where she was, but he didn't. Is it his pride? Is it his ignornance? Is it Emma controlling him? Who knows. They shouldn't all be clustered together in one spot. You can see what's happening with the Sentinels already. Everyone already knows where to look. The school is going to constantly be under attack. I think Ororo made a lot of sense. But even with all this said....she is more than likely being written out of the X-Men for the time being because the current writers don't have any use for her OR there is something bigger being planned with her.

[Titan76]

Really, what makes The X-Men NEED Storm more than ever? They have more members than ever and more allies than ever.
Because Storm is right now their number 2 person and they need her leadership skills which all them X-men don't have and what makes you think they have more allies then ever? Please explain this too me. Are the Avengers and FF going to help the X-men with the Sentials coming to destory their race and the gov. trying to maybe get rid of the rest or the mutants like the writers at Marvel had said might happen.
There are no major threats in the X-universe.
You havn't then been reading the X-men. They have a lot of major threats going on right now like the one in Deadly Gensis, the HoM after affect and what will be going on in Astonishing.
Magneto has no powers. Apocalypse is still dead. Mister Sinister has not been a player for years. The Juggernaut and Emma Frost are X-MEN, for goodness sakes!
Apocalypse is alive again and Sinister and Apocalypse will both be back in the X-books next year. Plus the Hellfire club is back too. Just because Magneto is powerless doesn't he won't do nothing, he is one of the smartest man on the planet(not like Reed or Doom) and can come up with other ways to fight his war if that's what he is going to still be doing.

No, what would be silly is to establish the fact that Storm leaves The X-Men because she is in a committed relationship and then dump the relationship at the first sign of trouble. How well do you think that would go over with someone who was a member of The Avengers?
You mean like Iron Man's relationships he has had in the past? And this isn't a just an everyday problem the X-men face, the race is right now fighting for their surivial because there are only less then 200 of them left and humans want the rest of them dead and Storm wants no part in it, doesn't make much sense to me.

"Sorry, but there are fewer mutants. I know it's OK for Professor Xavier, Wolverine, Cyclops and Jean Grey to leave the team after a crisis, but I'm obligated to join them even though I left the team knowing that this could happen. For some reason, more is expected of me than for the other ones."
Wolverine is not a team leader, big difference. Jean and Cyclops left because he almost die and needed time to heal but once the X-men call them up they came back. Then X-men thought Cyclops died and Jean needed some time off and then came back, way different from what's Storm doing. Xavier has always left the X-men but they always had their leaders their(Cyclops, Jean, Storm) to take care of things and no one really care if Xavier comes back or not on this board(I think). Also I have already have said Storm has left the X-men before like Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, Xavier all have had, so where are you going with this?

[Smarty Jones]

"X-Corporation is no longer around since there are only 200 mutants left in the world. And Storm is needed right now because she is the X-men's number 2 leader and besides Cyclops, Xavier, Jean, and maybe Emma she is one of their most important members and since Xavier and Jean are gone she is really needed."

The X-Men are a group of grizzled veterans, featuring the likes of Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Bishop, Havok and Psylocke. This ship is hardly rudderless. Jean Grey has been dead for a few years and Professor Xavier was living on Genosha for some time, apart from the team.

"Oh yeah and there is a small total number of Avengers.:rolleyes: I do think the X-men need to get out of their book more but so do the Avengers."

Since The Avengers essentially was disbanded and became Brian Michael Bendis' favorite pets, there is a reason why Wonder Man, The Vision, etc. are not members. Conversely, there is no logical reason some X-Men and villains have been on the shelf for a long period, especially since there are three X-Men books on the shelf.

"The same reason Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America have a solo and don't really ever leave the Avenger-ghetto."

Captain America, Iron Man and Thor have established adventures outside of The Avengers. Occasionally their worlds have crept over into The Avengers', but their issues mostly are separate from The Avengers.

Meanwhile, Storm is defined by The X-Men. The character really has no definition or distinction outside of being an X-Man. Wolverine is the only X-Man who has some sort of identity beyond The X-Men, but even that is overexposed.

"Storm has also left the X-men in the past as well. Infact I think she has left the X-men 2 or 3 times to do personal things, one lasted for about 1 or two our time. Captain America I don't think has left the Avengers for a long period of time, though I may be wrong."

This is truly the first time Storm has taken a break from The X-Men, and potentially would not be a presence. She even led the team during the period where she lost her powers and during her period of soul-searching in "Lifepath," Storm was seen as a presence in the X-books.

"Name some other couples please? And I guess you didn't see my comment about Scott and Emma being the most forced couple right now both whom are white."

Characters date in comic books because of editorial dictation; these are fictional characters who are given their motivations by other people. These are NOT real people, so editors can make anyone theoretically be a couple.

Throughout comic book history, there have been characters who were created specifically to be love interests (see Mary Jane Watson, Lois Lane) and all characters' dating patterns are the result of what the creators want. What you may call "forced" is really more how you feel with what precision that creator handled it.

Again, I don't know to what you are referencing concerning Storm and The Black Panther, but books like "Marvel Team-Up 100" and "Black Panther 25-27" showed that the creators showed how plausible it could be for these characters to get together.

[Tennoarashi]

Again, I don't know to what you are referencing concerning Storm and The Black Panther, but books like "Marvel Team-Up 100" and "Black Panther 25-27" showed that the creators showed how plausible it could be for these characters to get together.Aren't those the only stories that really referenced the couple before this?

[Tre Styles]

Here is the page I was talking about....
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/TreStyles1/StormandCykeconvo.jpg

[Smarty Jones]

"Because Storm is right now their number 2 person and they need her leadership skills which all them X-men don't have and what makes you think they have more allies then ever?"

Again, characters like Cyclops, Emma Frost, Nightcrawler and Havok have been leaders in the past, and characters like Colossus and Psylocke hardly need someone telling standing over them. Not to mention it seems like a lot of the mutants still around are related to The X-Men.

"Are the Avengers and FF going to help the X-men with the Sentials coming to destory their race and the gov. trying to maybe get rid of the rest or the mutants like the writers at Marvel had said might happen."

Like that really is going to happen; that's the same old shoe that's been part of X-lore since the 1970s.

"Apocalypse is alive again and Sinister and Apocalypse will both be back in the X-books next year. Plus the Hellfire club is back too. Just because Magneto is powerless doesn't he won't do nothing, he is one of the smartest man on the planet (not like Reed or Doom) and can come up with other ways to fight his war if that's what he is going to still be doing."

The X-Men have handled Apocalypse and Mister Sinister in the past, and both were in limbo a long time. If the editors make Apocalypse as toothless as they did in the first place -- complete with converting X-characters into temporary Horsemen -- I don't see why Storm would be needed.

All these elements were in place in the numerous times other X-Men left the team. Professor X left the team knowing Apocalypse possessed Cyclops, and Jean Grey left the team shortly. Wolverine left after "Fatal Attractions." Why is this being hanged on Storm's head is not a good reason.

"And this isn't a just an everyday problem the X-men face, the race is right now fighting for their surivial because there are only less then 200 of them left and humans want the rest of them dead and Storm wants no part in it, doesn't make much sense to me."

You're being a little melodramatic, aren't you? Bastion went after The X-Men in "Operation: Zero Tolerance," and you're talking about an instant replay of that. Again, where is Charles Xavier and why isn't he getting this albatross thrown on his back?

The X-Men have more members than ever, and it's not like this is a team of rookies or people who have never worked together. You're sticking a double standard on Storm, when there have been precedence of X-Men doing the same thing.

[Crimson]

Here is the page I was talking about....
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/TreStyles1/StormandCykeconvo.jpg


Perhaps people could become more open too the idea of Storm leaving if we knew which was the proper reason... is it Black Panther #9 or House of M: The Day After?

[Smarty Jones]

"Here is the page I was talking about...."
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/TreStyles1/StormandCykeconvo.jpg

Yeah, that hardly seems like Storm is being irresponsible concerning The X-Men. The way some of you people are talking, you would have thought Storm left because of a booty call.

Nothing in that conversation even citing that she is leaving because of The Black Panther. For the first time, it seems she's actually showing some concern about her roots. It sounds very much like a legitmate reason to leave.

[Tre Styles]

Perhaps people could become more open too the idea of Storm leaving if we knew which was the proper reason... is it Black Panther #9 or House of M: The Day After?


Welll, I didn't read BP #9, so I felt it was HOM: Day After, because if it was because of Black Panther BEFORE Decimation hit, then there shouldn't be a problem with her taking some time for herself. At least that's how I see it. But my take is that HOM is the reason. But yeah, I probably should see BP #9 to see what all the fuss is about. Then again, I don't care for Hudlin's handling of the characters all that much...and HOM: DA was written by Claremont..... :p ;)

[Titan76]

The X-Men are a group of grizzled veterans, featuring the likes of Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Bishop, Havok and Psylocke. This ship is hardly rudderless. Jean Grey has been dead for a few years and Professor Xavier was living on Genosha for some time, apart from the team.
Jean is not dead, read Phoenix Endsong, her body isn't even in her grave anymore. While yes the X-men have lots of veterans that doesn't make them leaders. The Avengers have lots of vet. but how many leaders have they had or will follow? Same goes with the X-men.


Since The Avengers essentially was disbanded and became Brian Michael Bendis' favorite pets, there is a reason why Wonder Man, The Vision, etc. are not members. Conversely, there is no logical reason some X-Men and villains have been on the shelf for a long period, especially since there are three X-Men books on the shelf.
There are 3 X-books on the self right now because they sell really good. If the Avengers could sell 3 books then Marvel would give them 3 books. I agree with you that there have been X-men and villains on the shelf for a long time but this doesn't happen only in the X-books to you know.


Captain America, Iron Man and Thor have established adventures outside of The Avengers. Occasionally their worlds have crept over into The Avengers', but their issues mostly are separate from The Avengers.

Meanwhile, Storm is defined by The X-Men. The character really has no definition or distinction outside of being an X-Man. Wolverine is the only X-Man who has some sort of identity beyond The X-Men, but even that is overexposed.
If Storm was given a solo title then her adventures would be separate as well like Wolverine's mostly is. Iron Man is more know as an Avenger and maybe Cap is too just like Storm know as an X-man. The only difference is they have solo books that help make them 100% know as just Avengers, if Storm had her own book as well then the same could apply to her as well. And yeah, Wolverine is too overexposed.


This is truly the first time Storm has taken a break from The X-Men,
No its not. When she lost her powers she went back to Africa for a few months Marvel time to take a break for the X-men.
She even led the team during the period where she lost her powers and during her period of soul-searching in "Lifepath," Storm was seen as a presence in the X-books.
Would it have made it better if it was in a mini or another ongoing book? It was in the X-book because the person he wrote it was Claremont and it was his choice. I guess it could have been a mini but then I don't think most fans would have read it becasue Storm wasn't really at her prime yet.


Characters date in comic books because of editorial dictation; these are fictional characters who are given their motivations by other people. These are NOT real people, so editors can make anyone theoretically be a couple.

Throughout comic book history, there have been characters who were created specifically to be love interests (see Mary Jane Watson, Lois Lane) and all characters' dating patterns are the result of what the creators want. What you may call "forced" is really more how you feel with what precision that creator handled it.
I agree with you on this 100%.
Again, I don't know to what you are referencing concerning Storm and The Black Panther, but books like "Marvel Team-Up 100" and "Black Panther 25-27" showed that the creators showed how plausible it could be for these characters to get together.
I just don't see them together and have not read these books you have mention and to be honest don't plan too. I think if Marvel wanted to put Storm and BP together they should have done it in a much better way. I just don't like the way they put them together that's all. We all have our dislike of stories and this was one of them for me. I am not saying I don't ever want to see Storm with BP, just that I think Marvel could have done a better job at doing it.

[The Fury]

*Steps in*

There is a difference between an Editorial decision and what the characters said.

Her leaving the books and going to Africa is/was Editorial decision, why she did that was due to what the writers wanted.

*Runs out*

[Smarty Jones]

"I just don't see (The Black Panther and Storm) together and have not read these books you have mention and to be honest don't plan too. I think if Marvel wanted to put Storm and BP together they should have done it in a much better way. I just don't like the way they put them together that's all. We all have our dislike of stories and this was one of them for me. I am not saying I don't ever want to see Storm with BP, just that I think Marvel could have done a better job at doing it."

Like I said, I don't know what you read to come to this conclusion but the roots of such a relationship were planted 26 years ago and progressed several years ago, thanks to Christopher Priest's "Black Panther 25-27."

I presume you're talking about the "House of M" book and what Reggie Hudlin wrote in his take on The Black Panther. Maybe by reading what you read, I can get an appreciation for what you're seeing.

Could you tell me the books in question?

[Smarty Jones]

"*Steps in*

There is a difference between an Editorial decision and what the characters said.

Her leaving the books and going to Africa is/was Editorial decision, why she did that was due to what the writers wanted.

*Runs out*"

No different for any other romantic pairing in comic books. So why attack this one?

[Crimson]

Like I said, I don't know what you read to come to this conclusion but the roots of such a relationship were planted 26 years ago and progressed several years ago, thanks to Christopher Priest's "Black Panther 25-27."

I presume you're talking about the "House of M" book and what Reggie Hudlin wrote in his take on The Black Panther. Maybe by reading what you read, I can get an appreciation for what you're seeing.

Could you tell me the books in question?

Isn't Priests run now been scrapped and Hudlin's is a reboot? So that would leave Marvel Team Up, oh and the recent crossover with X-Men/Black Panther.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

No different for any other romantic pairing in comic books. So why attack this one?

Probably because it is Storm. One of the most beloved characters in the X-Universe and she is leaving for whatever reason. That's gonna make a lot of people unhappy. Kinda can be seen as a lover leaving a person for someone else. One reaction is to lash out in hurt and anger.


I could care either way as long as they give her a good story and do some character development. She's one of the best characters in the Marvel Universe and too often no writer seems to know what to with her except Claremont.

[Titan76]

Again, characters like Cyclops, Emma Frost, Nightcrawler and Havok have been leaders in the past, and characters like Colossus and Psylocke hardly need someone telling standing over them. Not to mention it seems like a lot of the mutants still around are related to The X-Men.
True the do have enough leaders to lead the X-men but each leader isn't really the same. I have never like Nightcrawler as a leader and never thought he really made a good one and Emma is a Headmaster not a X-team leader.

Like that really is going to happen; that's the same old shoe that's been part of X-lore since the 1970s.
This could be said for every comic book when it comes to their stories. Each has in a way its own different outcome but this really isn't a story like the others the X-men have had. Onslaught wasn't and others wasn't because their wasn't less then 200 mutants left from the outcome.


The X-Men have handled Apocalypse and Mister Sinister in the past, and both were in limbo a long time. If the editors make Apocalypse as toothless as they did in the first place -- complete with converting X-characters into temporary Horsemen -- I don't see why Storm would be needed.
What you just said is true, but since the Avengers always win then why do they need Cap and Iron Man for leaders then since they too always win?
All these elements were in place in the numerous times other X-Men left the team. Professor X left the team knowing Apocalypse possessed Cyclops, and Jean Grey left the team shortly.
Xavier did not know Cyclops was possessed, he thought he was dead and Jean kinda of did to which is why she left, wouldn't you if your mate had just died or thought had just died? Her leaving for awhile made sense, and Xavier left because the mutant Skulls were in his care and he needed to find them place to live.
Wolverine left after "Fatal Attractions." .
Wolverine left because he just got his sleketon rip out of him and was healing from it and wanted to know she things about his past, plus Wolveine isn't a team leader like Storm so I don't know why you keep on using him.
Why is this being hanged on Storm's head is not a good reason
Because if Storm was so worried about what was happening in Africa then why does she went until now to take care of it? Really. Not trying to be an ass or nothing but it just seems a little force for to start doing this now and not before HoM happen which would have to me made a little more sense.
You're being a little melodramatic, aren't you? Bastion went after The X-Men in "Operation: Zero Tolerance," and you're talking about an instant replay of that. Again, where is Charles Xavier and why isn't he getting this albatross thrown on his back?
Storm was with them during that time and no one knows where Xavier is. No one has seem him since HoM started and ended. His whereabout I think will be mention in Deadly Genesis though.
The X-Men have more members than ever, and it's not like this is a team of rookies or people who have never worked together. You're sticking a double standard on Storm, when there have been precedence of X-Men doing the same thing.
Like I said the same thing could be said about the Avengers too. And how I'm I putting a double standard on Storm? The X-men have also lost some members too and not only are the X-men but they are teachers as well to their students too.

[The Fury]

No different for any other romantic pairing in comic books. So why attack this one?
I'm not attacking their relationship.

BP and Storm can be together for all I care.

But I don't think Claremont would have wanted for her to leave his book. My opinion. Don't worry yourself over it.

[Smarty Jones]

"Isn't Priests run now been scrapped and Hudlin's is a reboot? So that would leave Marvel Team Up, oh and the recent crossover with X-Men/Black Panther."

Quite frankly, I don't know what to make of Reggie Hudlin's run on "Black Panther." It contradicts a lot of things concerning not just T'Challa, but what has happened in the Marvel Universe. You've got a Klaw that no longer is made of sound, a Radioactive Man that's a different race than the one that was in "Thunderbolts," etc.

Maybe this T'Challa/Storm pairing would make sense if Hudlin's massive messing-over of T'Challa was not in the picture. Could you tell me what issues that have some of you upset over this pairing, so I can read them for myself?

[Tre Styles]

Isn't Priests run now been scrapped and Hudlin's is a reboot? So that would leave Marvel Team Up, oh and the recent crossover with X-Men/Black Panther.

They "scrapped" Priest's run? They are saying it never happened? I hadn't heard this! If this is true, then that's truly outrageous....where can I find out more about that Crimson?.

[Smarty Jones]

"I'm not attacking their relationship.

BP and Storm can be together for all I care.

But I don't think Claremont would have wanted for her to leave his book. My opinion. Don't worry yourself over it."

But in all fairness, I think Chris Claremont is part of the reason The X-Men are trapped in their insular, incestuous cycle. He simply will not let go of characters while overemphasizing some and stifling others.

[Crimson]

They "scrapped" Priest's run? They are saying it never happened? I hadn't heard this! If this is true, then that's truly outrageous....where can I find out more about that Crimson?.

It's really confusing.

The new Black Panther series first arc #1-6 takes place when he first becomes Black Panther. Now, Hudlin tried to explain this was simply a Year One type deal but the recent cross over with X-Men includes ongoing plots from the first arc which apparantly means it takes place at the very least a few months after the first arc.

The crossover with X-Men though includes members that weren't around when Black Panther made his comic debut so the crossover can't take place in the past.

Apparanrtly it is a reboot. It's really confusing and opens a whole other can of worms.

Quite frankly, I don't know what to make of Reggie Hudlin's run on "Black Panther." It contradicts a lot of things concerning not just T'Challa, but what has happened in the Marvel Universe. You've got a Klaw that no longer is made of sound, a Radioactive Man that's a different race than the one that was in "Thunderbolts," etc.

Maybe this T'Challa/Storm pairing would make sense if Hudlin's massive messing-over of T'Challa was not in the picture. Could you tell me what issues that have some of you upset over this pairing, so I can read them for myself?

I think alot of my issues with the pairing is the confusion.

Why is she leaving? Which is the proper reason BP#9 or House of M: The Day After? I don't mind the second one.

How much history do Black Panther and Storm have? Is it only the Marvel Team Up?

I think Black Panther and Storm could make an interesting pairing and it'd be cool to see but it seems forced in this instance were in one crossover after all these years they look to be getting back together. I'd much prefer a slower build but of course the X-Men being in their own corner makes this near impossible.

I have very high hopes for the Storm mini next year though, which should hopefully clear up what is currently cannon as far as Black Panther/Storm history is. Hopefully after that I can buy their relationship.

[Tre Styles]

It's really confusing.

The new Black Panther series first arc #1-6 takes place when he first becomes Black Panther. Now, Hudlin tried to explain this was simply a Year One type deal but the recent cross over with X-Men includes ongoing plots from the first arc which apparantly means it takes place at the very least a few months after the first arc.

The crossover with X-Men though includes members that weren't around when Black Panther made his comic debut so the crossover can't take place in the past.

Apparanrtly it is a reboot. It's really confusing and opens a whole other can of worms.


Yep. Quite confusing.....mmm, don't know what to make about that. :cool:

[The Fury]

But in all fairness, I think Chris Claremont is part of the reason The X-Men are trapped in their insular, incestuous cycle. He simply will not let go of characters while overemphasizing some and stifling others.
True, Claremont is a reason...but then so are most writers.

I mean when was the last time any X-men character dated someone that was not part of the X-men or a mutant? I mean as soon as Colossus came back he got back with Kitty. Before he died they weren't dating.

It's been a while. Again what this might be down to is Editors again. They hold the final decision over where characters go or other big character developments (or they are meant to).

[Smarty Jones]

"How much history do Black Panther and Storm have? Is it only the Marvel Team Up?

I think Black Panther and Storm could make an interesting pairing and it'd be cool to see but it seems forced in this instance were in one crossover after all these years they look to be getting back together. I'd much prefer a slower build but of course the X-Men being in their own corner makes this near impossible."

The big problem is not Storm and The Black Panther themselves then, but how Reggie Hudlin's butchering of T'Challa has made a mess of a lot of things -- including the viability of a relationship.

I'm really surprised Marvel will let Hudlin's work stand in continuity, because it really makes a mess of a lot of things (not just for T'Challa, but throughout Marvel). In the initial issues, T'Challa was not an Avenger but recently he addressed Spider-Man as a "fellow Avenger." Hudlin not only is making a mess of established Marvel continuity, but he contradicts HIS OWN continuity, it seems.

Like I said, I need to read his take on meeting The X-Men and Storm's interactions with T'Challa to see where you all are coming from.

However, I also will say that this is not the first time there has been some heated discussions of seeing T'Challa and Storm together -- I remember four years ago when I first posted here that people were trashing T'Challa and that was when Christopher Priest was working on the book.

[Titan76]

Like I said, I don't know what you read to come to this conclusion but the roots of such a relationship were planted 26 years ago and progressed several years ago, thanks to Christopher Priest's "Black Panther 25-27."

I presume you're talking about the "House of M" book and what Reggie Hudlin wrote in his take on The Black Panther. Maybe by reading what you read, I can get an appreciation for what you're seeing.

Could you tell me the books in question?
I didn't like the X-men/Panther crossover, thought it was dumb and now I have drop the book(the X-men book, only brought BP to read the crossover). Plus I hate how Milligan writes the X-men and I will no longer read the rest of his run. If this had been another writer(a good one) and there was a better build up(more then what we have gotton) to Storm going to be with the BP then I might have like this. This is just a couple(marvel has said Storm will be with BP and in his book) that I don't like to see right now because of the recent crossover but that could change if they are writen better in the future. Only time will tell. Nice debating, but I got to go now. Later.

[Beast]

True, Claremont is a reason...but then so are most writers.

I mean when was the last time any X-men character dated someone that was not part of the X-men or a mutant? I mean as soon as Colossus came back he got back with Kitty. Before he died they weren't dating.

It's been a while. Again what this might be down to is Editors again. They hold the final decision over where characters go or other big character developments (or they are meant to).
Beast, and to some extent Bobby have always dated outside the team for the most part. Even Angel and Cyclops have had quite a few relationships outside the X-Pantheon. Unfortunatly, having support characters outside the team seems to have been something that was lost with the dreck that came up in the 90's. Only Hank's still dating outside the team, and given that I wish Trish would get hit by a bus, not with someone I like. :p

[Tre Styles]

ALthough it was an alternate reality, didn't Alex Ross have Storm and T'Challa together in EarthX or something? So, the idea has been out there long before Hudlin, and even Priest. I think Priest just picked up on the idea that had been around....which I guess was the Marvel Team Up #100.....
Anyways, it doesn't sound like the worst idea in the world to have Storm and T'Challa together.....

[Smarty Jones]

"ALthough it was an alternate reality, didn't Alex Ross have Storm and T'Challa together in EarthX or something? So, the idea has been out there long before Hudlin, and even Priest. I think Priest just picked up on the idea that had been around....which I guess was the Marvel Team Up #100.....
Anyways, it doesn't sound like the worst idea in the world to have Storm and T'Challa together....."

Exactly.

Like I said, T'Challa is one of the most respected characters in the Marvel Universe. One of the better superheroes, incredibly resourceful and intelligent, the ruler of the most technologically advanced nation on the planet. Even with Reggie Hudlin's hack job, in his own twisted way he is writing T'Challa as such.

But the problem was even before Hudlin's work, this idea was being savaged by posters on this forum in CBR -- when Christopher Priest was working on the character. What makes T'Challa so "unworthy" of Storm, the same character who dated some no-name Australian surfer out of the blue?

[Smarty Jones]

"And all of that is simply your opinion of the character. :)"

There is no matter of opinion -- The Black Panther always has been one of the most respected characters in Marvel, by his superhuman peers and readers.

You really need to come with some reasons why T'Challa is "unworthy" of Storm, considering she dated some questionable people like Slipstream and Wolverine.

Sounding like the only difference is race here.

[The Fury]

Beast, and to some extent Bobby have always dated outside the team for the most part. Even Angel and Cyclops have had quite a few relationships outside the X-Pantheon. Unfortunatly, having support characters outside the team seems to have been something that was lost with the dreck that came up in the 90's. Only Hank's still dating outside the team, and given that I wish Trish would get hit by a bus, not with someone I like. :p
All true.

But most of those realtionships were long ago. Nowadays it's just about dating the other X-men. Havok/Polaris or Bobby/Polaris. Psylocke/whoever (it seems). Scott/Emma. Kitty/Colossus. Rogue/Gambit (until recently). Warren/Husk.

Yet the single people who aren't dating...just aren't dating anyone. End of.

They should venture out more. I thank Bendis for hooking up Ult Spider-man and Kitty.

[Smarty Jones]

"All true.

But most of those realtionships were long ago. Nowadays it's just about dating the other X-men. Havok/Polaris or Bobby/Polaris. Psylocke/whoever (it seems). Scott/Emma. Kitty/Colossus. Rogue/Gambit (until recently). Warren/Husk.

Yet the single people who aren't dating...just aren't dating anyone. End of.

They should venture out more. I thank Bendis for hooking up Ult Spider-man and Kitty."

Like I said, it's an incestuous nature that permeates The X-Men's books. It's time to move some of the characters out of the X-books, in general.

[The Fury]

Like I said, it's an incestuous nature that permeates The X-Men's books. It's time to move some of the characters out of the X-books, in general.
Hey, the sooner Iceman, Rogue or Jean Grey join the Avengers the better in my view.

True power needs to be with Earth's mightiest Heroes.

[xmanson]

I just dislike the way the relationship is being shown now. If it was done the that Priest wrote it - both charcaters very respectful towards each other, and Ororo being the only one to finally make Tchalla open up, it would be great.

But then we got that crappy crossover with the annoying wisecracking Tchalla and Storm staying away from Africa because