His Dark Materials(possible spoilers)

[jadegiant77]

So what did everyone think of this trilogy? I thought it was pretty cool in some parts and terrible in others. First, we are told that Lyra's uncle(who is actually her father) Lord Asriel is going to lead a revolt against God . The actual battle is merely against his angels, and it is revealed that God is actually an extremely old angel who only CLAIMED to be the Creator, and who is carried around in a glass-covered bier to keep him from disintegrating, which he actually does when Lyra and Will open the covering. That was so lame. Second, it is stated that Lyra will somehow end destiny, but it is never actually revealed how she does so! Third, Will and Lyra's demons find a way to cross dimensions without the Subtle Knife, but they decide not to tell the young lovers until they are ready to do so. I was hoping for a flash forward sequence years later showing them reuniting, but no. Fourth, Mary supposedly plays the role of the serpent to Lyra, who is Mother Eve reincarnated but she doesn't do anything like give her a fruit to eat! She just tells her a story! how is that tempting her? Lastly, I was annoyed by the excruciating detail the author paid to almost every scene(did we really need to hear about the forest's shading in the moonlight and how long it took to walk it, and how the dirt felt underfooot, etc.) Thoughts?

[Zeta]

Well, the whole series is basically a criticism of religion, so you have to look at it in that light. It's almost the anti-Narnia. Instead of "Kids! Jesus is COOL!", it's "Kids! Religion is manipulative lies!"

Speaking of which, why was there no controversy over these children's books? Harry Potter, which has nothing to do with religion gets tons of flack for being Satanic.

Meanwhile, these books which exclaim "Satan was a good guy who valued free-thinking and God is a power-mad invalid who was killed by two children and a pair of gay angels!" don't get any complaints at all?!

First, we are told that Lyra's uncle(who is actually her father) Lord Asriel is going to lead a revolt against God . The actual battle is merely against his angels, and it is revealed that God is actually an extremely old angel who only CLAIMED to be the Creator, and who is carried around in a glass-covered bier to keep him from disintegrating, which he actually does when Lyra and Will open the covering. That was so lame.

Why is it lame? First of all, if God is an angel protected by other angels - doesn't it make sense to pick off the army till you can work your way to old Yaweh? Also, I think it was a bit of symbolism - Gods are useless and non-existant - it's their nutty followers (represented by the Church, the angels, and Metatron) that you have to worry about.

Second, it is stated that Lyra will somehow end destiny, but it is never actually revealed how she does so!

Well, I thought that "Destiny", as it was presented in the book was God and his angels manipulating everyone's lives. Lyra contributed to God's demise and the fall of his empire - thus killing destiny.

Third, Will and Lyra's demons find a way to cross dimensions without the Subtle Knife, but they decide not to tell the young lovers until they are ready to do so. I was hoping for a flash forward sequence years later showing them reuniting, but no.

It may be that only daemons can do that, so it would be useless to tell them anyways.

Fourth, Mary supposedly plays the role of the serpent to Lyra, who is Mother Eve reincarnated but she doesn't do anything like give her a fruit to eat! She just tells her a story! how is that tempting her?

She didn't tempt her. She enlightened her with knowledge. It wasn't a literal fruit-type set up. *rollseyes*

Lastly, I was annoyed by the excruciating detail the author paid to almost every scene(did we really need to hear about the forest's shading in the moonlight and how long it took to walk it, and how the dirt felt underfooot, etc.) Thoughts?

At least he focused on what was currently happening. Unlike Tolkien, who paid excruciating detail to everything in the backstory and only seemed to tell what was currently happening by chance. :p

[Expletive Deleted]

Speaking of which, why was there no controversy over these children's books? Harry Potter, which has nothing to do with religion gets tons of flack for being Satanic.

Meanwhile, these books which exclaim "Satan was a good guy who valued free-thinking and God is a power-mad invalid who was killed by two children and a pair of gay angels!" don't get any complaints at all?!Because they don't have magical things in the titles or on the covers, of course.

I mean, it's not as if the people who want Harry Potter books banned have actually read them.

[cactusmaac]

It's nowhere near as popular as the Potter books.

And probably won't be translated into film since Hollywood is leery of producing something that'll be targeted by religious groups and isn't a prestige project by a famous director or actor.

[Shem the Penman]

It's nowhere near as popular as the Potter books.

And probably won't be translated into film since Hollywood is leery of producing something that'll be targeted by religious groups and isn't a prestige project by a famous director or actor.

The script for a movie version of The Golden Compass (or, if you're British, Northern Lights), is being written, and a director has been hired (Anand Tucker, who did the recent Shopgirl). Still too early to tell if it will actually reach the screen. There have been rumors going around that the producers plan to strip out the anti-religious content and just do it as a straight adventure story, which is depressing if true.

[Zeta]

There have been rumors going around that the producers plan to strip out the anti-religious content and just do it as a straight adventure story, which is depressing if true.

I guess that means there couldn't be any sequels, because that's all the last two books ARE, really.

[Tages]

Well, the whole series is basically a criticism of religion, so you have to look at it in that light. It's almost the anti-Narnia. Instead of "Kids! Jesus is COOL!", it's "Kids! Religion is manipulative lies!"

Speaking of which, why was there no controversy over these children's books? Harry Potter, which has nothing to do with religion gets tons of flack for being Satanic.
Um, they have. I no longer have the link but I remember clearly someone saying that HDM "deserves a bonfire more than a thousand Harry Potters."

[MKTerra]

I liked it, though
the ending was kind of depressing :/
First one's the best, I think.

I think it'd make a good anime :)

[Puma]

Harry Potter is incredibly accessible and, I really like the books so no flaming!, are easy to read. His Dark Materials are a much harder read without much humor and light. I work as a librarian and we've catalogued the Potter books in Juvenile fiction and His Dark Materials in the Young Adult simply based on the theme and required reading level. Potter may be getting darker but it is written as an adventure with a theme whereas Pullman wrote a theme with an adventure.

[jadegiant77]

Why is it lame? First of all, if God is an angel protected by other angels - doesn't it make sense to pick off the army till you can work your way to old Yaweh? Also, I think it was a bit of symbolism - Gods are useless and non-existant - it's their nutty followers (represented by the Church, the angels, and Metatron) that you have to worry about.

Well, it would have been cool if they had went up against THE God, the Old Testament hellfire and brimstone one, ya know? Supposedly, the subtle knife could have harmed him, but we will never know. And where the hell was Jesus? :rolleyes: J/K




It may be that only daemons can do that, so it would be useless to tell them anyways.

Nope. Lyra's demon tells her that he'll be able to show her how to do it as well, just not right now.


Y'know, I coulda done without those stupid ass cow things with wheels, too. They sucked.

[Gaz]

Because they don't have magical things in the titles or on the covers, of course.

I mean, it's not as if the people who want Harry Potter books banned have actually read them.
And they actually DID get a big stink raised by the more conservative press over here. Stuff like "Pullman hates Jesus" "HDM is corrupting our kidz!" and so on. Then some C-list starlet flashed her D-cups and all was forgotten.
I do think that thinking of it as a literary rebuttal to Narnia makes sense, and that's probably why I prefer it.
Whether or not you think the theme is advanced at the expense of the plot and characters or not (I don't) it's still a good adventure with a decent message of "think for yourself, don't assume what adults/the establishment say is right" regardless of the religious stuff, and there's a Romeo/Julliet doomed lovers angle in there too.

[Paul McEnery]

Worth mentioning that the Archbishop of Canterbury likes it, too.

[Chevan]

I just finished reading it a couple days ago, and I really liked it. I think a movie could work, but turning it into pure action is basically eviscerating the series. Honestly, I'd prefer they didn't make a movie, because they'd probably bend to the religious outcry.

The vibe that I got from the books wasn't so much anti-religion as it was anti-religious institution. There's a core set of values that's promoted throughout the book: Lyra's inborn kindness and compassion, Will's rebellion against his 'nature', the love that basically surrounds all the major characters following Will and Lyra around. The book's promoting a good way to live, and making the controversial suggestion that we might just be able to do it without the (sometimes corrupt) Church.

[Tobias March]

One of my favourite recent series. Far superior to many of the competing titles. I've passed it on to a number of folk and they've found it very accessible, so I don't understand that complaint. The opening description of Lyra's life in Jordan college and the subsequent incident with Lord Azriel is a fantastic introduction to the world. Daemons are simply introduced to us without needless digression. The differences between our world and this one become evident quickly. Oh and Zeta I remember when I first read the Northern Lights it carried a quotation from a Catholic newspaper declaring that it deserved the bonfire more than a thousand Harry Potters. It was an amusing quote, more a 'screw you', to the journal, but I've noticed it's been pulled since.

As for strip-mining the script -- I hope they only refer to God solely as 'The Authority'. That's a compromise I might just be able to stomach. Anything further and we might as well be watching "The Lion, the Witch and the Theoretical Physicist - With Gay Angels".

[Spot]

These books are easiest my top 3 books i have ever read, the golden compass i picked up and tried biting into it a good 3-4 times and once i did i was amazed upon how fast i was sucked into the world of lyra and her journeys - ive never been so moved from reality as these books had done. right now im reading a trilogy called the The Abhorsen Trilogy by Gath Nix. id suggest them to anyone who liked these books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-3812674-3066451?url=index%3Dblended&search-option=search-amazon&field-keywords=sabriel&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

[GremlinClr]

So I just finished the trilogy a couple days ago and I gotta say, I was really surprised at how much I enjoyed them. At first I thought I really wouldn't like Lyra but by the end of book 1 I was pretty happy about how she was turning out. I was also surprised at how dark these were for young adult fiction. And the ending was very sad.

I really didn't find it that anti-Christianity. I saw it as more anti-organized religion. The church were the real bad guys of the piece.

I mean everyone had a soul. God was absent but not a bad guy. They didn't really kill the Authority, he just kinda died on his own. Did have gay angels though, that probably wouldn't go over well in a movie. And really Lord Asriel's war was just a set piece that Lyra and Will moved around. Once Asriel and Mrs. Coulter killed Metatron I don't think they even mentioned it again.

Anyway I'm really looking forward to the movie this December.

[ultramandingo]

......yeah i just finished it too . ill stick with the books .i doubt hollywood will go for the whole "war against the allmighty " thing . witches vs evil angels !!!
- they already changed Iofur to Ragnar Sturlson (!?!)
"The character of Iofur in the books was renamed, likely to prevent confusion between Iofur and Iorek in audiences who have not read the book."
.........dont confuse the non reading muti plex goers !

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385752/faq

[blackphoenix]

Gay angels....hehehee....

So what will the church be called in the movie?

[Chevan]

......yeah i just finished it too . ill stick with the books .i doubt hollywood will go for the whole "war against the allmighty " thing

According to the author, all the important stuff's being kept in.

[Ghost]

I loved those books. I really did. But the ending of the third book had me perpetually angry for three days.

I hated that ending. Still do.

[Gladiaria_Alata]

Jeez. It's been a while since I read them...

[Jazzy Jay]

I really didn't find it that anti-Christianity. I saw it as more anti-organized religion. The church were the real bad guys of the piece.

I mean everyone had a soul. God was absent but not a bad guy. They didn't really kill the Authority, he just kinda died on his own.

I don't know... I've seen a lot of people describing the books this way- that Pullman's positioning himself against the corrupt things people do in the name of religion- but I don't agree. I think the books are completely anti-religion, and it's more interesting that way. If it was only against organized religion, then Pullman would have portrayed the Church as betraying the true ideals of God/The Authority. Instead, God was a dictatorial tyrant and the church was doing exactly what he wanted. It's constantly brought up throughout the books- religion crushes the joy out life, religion encourages people to not question things or seek knowledge, etc. I'll be really disappointed if they use the movies to make some sort of general "anti-totalitarian" statement.

[blackphoenix]

Gay angels....hehehee....

So what will the church be called in the movie?


The Magisterium. Heh. Don't think I'll go see this. Can't ANYONE do a faithful adaptation of a book????

[Karl J Barnes]

I loved those books. I really did. But the ending of the third book had me perpetually angry for three days.

I hated that ending. Still do.

Ditto. I found that the longer novels went on (second and third); the more tedious they got. The ending of the trilogy definitely defines going out with a whimper.