Sympathy for the fat?

[Erkoban]

Someone called me insensitive because I said that fat people have mostly themselves to blame for their obesity.

But is it insensitive? Why should I have sympathy for people who seem incapable of a proper diet and regular work outs? There is the group who suffers from problems with glands and whatnot, but they are far and few between.

It's like ADD, your kid is active loud and obnoxious, you hear parents come out and just gleefully proclaim: "Well you know he's got a lot of energy and we don't give him any limits, so we'll just call him Hyper-Active and be done with it, look at our poor son with a disorder, now he can get away with murder in our eyes and we'll have the perfect excuse for whatever he does."

I'm not going to make fun of fat people, but I'm not going to pity them and feel sorry for them.

They're fat, so why deny it? Why warp the world around them just so they won't be offended?

Oh you're not fat, you're big boned, horizontally challenged, firm, solid, etc.

But you just can't say fat anymore and you can't say "Hey you know what, be fat, because being fat is cool, it's perfectly fine" when we tell smokers and drinkers that they should stop and there's a massive campaign against smoking pot and skinny people seem to be accused of being annorexic all the time and a gazillion or so other issues where people just don't seem as easygoing as where fat is concerned.

Go to a gym work out, stop eating at MacDonalds and start eating healthy meals, and go and prepare those meals yourself.

I like chocolate too, that doesn't mean that I should eat four chocolate bars a day.

Moderation is what keeps you healthy.

[Paradox]

You and Converge need to start a club. :evilsmile

[Mike Smash!]

You and Converge need to start a club. :evilsmileAnd iwarrior.

[Paradox]

The Salts of the Earth?

[Spike-X]

I'm fat, and I have nobody but myself to blame. Nobody tied me to the couch and made me eat all that cake, and stopped me from getting off my arse and out of the house.

[Jake V]

And iwarrior.
iwarrior was kind of a chunkster, himself.

But I'm sure he has an opinion about the matter.

[Devon C.]

Someone called me insensitive because I said that fat people have mostly themselves to blame for their obesity.

But is it insensitive? Why should I have sympathy for people who seem incapable of a proper diet and regular work outs? There is the group who suffers from problems with glands and whatnot, but they are far and few between. .
I like your thinking. Too many people wanna sue McDonald's because they gained weight from eating too much. And some people have actually won. What the heck is that?

[MacQuarrie]

Suppose an alcoholic wants to get sober; would you have any sympathy for him? Would you recognize that, even though he has nobody but himself to blame for his condition, he faces a very difficult struggle? Would you be encouraging and supportive of his efforts to try to recover from the catastrophic results of some really bad decisions?

Okay, so suppose instead of alcohol, the guy's problem is obesity. Suppose he wants to lose weight, but the weight he's trying to lose also limits his ability to exercise. His metabolism is shot, making him retain weight even if he diets heavily. He's developing diabetes and a heart condition and high blood pressure, his knees and back are messed up...

You really couldn't work up an encouraging word for that guy? Not even a good luck?

There are lots of destructive and harmful things people do to themselves; why is obesity the only unforgiveable one?

[MacQuarrie]

I like your thinking. Too many people wanna sue McDonald's because they gained weight from eating too much. And some people have actually won. What the heck is that?
I haven't heard of anybody winning such a suit yet. And I doubt anyone would.

[Spike-X]

I like your thinking. Too many people wanna sue McDonald's because they gained weight from eating too much. And some people have actually won. What the heck is that?
Devon, can you provide a link to any case where somebody has actually sued McDonald's for making them fat, and won? There's only been one such lawsuit I've heard of, and it was thrown out of court.

[Valmore]

Wasn't "Sympathy For the Fat" a working title for "Sympathy For the Devil" by the Rolling Stones?

[Paradox]

"Please allow me to introduce myself,
I'm a man of girth and taste"

:p

[Spike-X]

Suppose an alcoholic wants to get sober; would you have any sympathy for him? Would you recognize that, even though he has nobody but himself to blame for his condition, he faces a very difficult struggle? Would you be encouraging and supportive of his efforts to try to recover from the catastrophic results of some really bad decisions?

I'd be encouraging as hell with anybody who really wanted to get over any kind of substance abuse problem. Been there myself.

I'd have a little more difficulty finding any sympathy for somebody who's constantly shitfaced and complaining about their problems, trying to blame anything and everyone but themselves.

It's the same with obesity. If somebody's trying to lose weight, they've got my total support. If they wanna sit on the couch and stuff their faces and bitch and moan that they're too fat...again, I'd have trouble finding a lot of sympathy.

[Mike Smash!]

Suppose an alcoholic wants to get sober; would you have any sympathy for him? Would you recognize that, even though he has nobody but himself to blame for his condition, he faces a very difficult struggle? Would you be encouraging and supportive of his efforts to try to recover from the catastrophic results of some really bad decisions?

Okay, so suppose instead of alcohol, the guy's problem is obesity. Suppose he wants to lose weight, but the weight he's trying to lose also limits his ability to exercise. His metabolism is shot, making him retain weight even if he diets heavily. He's developing diabetes and a heart condition and high blood pressure, his knees and back are messed up...

You really couldn't work up an encouraging word for that guy? Not even a good luck?

There are lots of destructive and harmful things people do to themselves; why is obesity the only unforgiveable one?I couldn't have said it better myself.

Besides, it's hard NOT to eat crap these days, especially with it's accessability, its low cost or the hurry we're all in.

I honestly think that more than alcohol, cigarettes or drugs, it's the crap food we eat that'll kill us. Unlike the others, it's marketed for and given to us as children without shame.

I have a "Nite Owl" gut on me and most of it is due to this crap and my near addiction to it.

I'm sick of it, so I'm stating that I'm quitting fast food cold turkey from this moment forward. And I'm gonna limit my soda intake significantly. I'm sick of being out of shape.

I know I don't have the willpower or time for regular exercise, but this I'm cutting out.

[howyadoin]

"Please allow me to introduce myself,
I'm a man of girth and taste"Girth and waist, maybe.

[The Dog]

I'll admit it. I'm fat and its my own damn fault. Noone hold a gun to my head and made me eat McDonalds and sit in front of a computer instead of exercising.

Anyways, girls seem to like my spare tire. It makes me soft and huggable, like a teddy bear.

Of course, it helps I'm "Stuffed Teddy Bear" fat, not "Jabba the Hutt with Legs" fat.

[Dil]

Is it really true that many people in the USA are fat ? We keep hearing that in France.

[howyadoin]

Is it really true that many people in the USA are fat ? We keep hearing that in France.I notice a difference when I travel to the States, but Vancouver's a pretty image-conscious town. Plenty of rural areas in Canada have just as many overweight people.

[Paradox]

howyadoin is on the ball:

Girth and waist, maybe.


..........



Shit.

[PatrickG]

In all honesty, I'm around 15 pounds over. Which means it's not that noticible when I'm in formal wear or loose fitting clothes but I should still get out and walk a bit. It's just easy when I can eat whatever I want and not GAIN any weight to stay in a state of equilibrium at around 15-20 over. However, when I do exercise, my leg muscles tend to gain muscle mass pretty quickly and I stay at about ten pounds over "ideal". No clue why except that muscle weighs more than fat and for whatever reason, my body tends to "bulk" and become harder and more dense rather than "slim". Maybe it's my fast heartrate and build.

I'm 6'1" or so and broad-shouldered. My chest girth is around 44" regardless of exercise and my waist doesn't normally dip below 34" when I'm exercising regularly and eating well. I'm at 36"-38" right now. But "in shape" I have a Tom Strong build without any serious cardio. Out of shape, I suppose I have a build not unlike Jonathan Frakes or Nicholas Brendan in the later seasons of their big TV roles.

Most of my friends are at or under their ideal weight. Maybe twenty percent are overweight and ten percent are obese.

The US has its share of morbidly obese people, I suppose, but most I've been aware of were far less visible in daily society, tending to stay at home, work from home or occupying office jobs.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Is it really true that many people in the USA are fat ? We keep hearing that in France.

Supposed to be somewhere around 60% of us; what can I say we like our fast foods, tv and artificial preservatives.

[Spike-X]

Someone called me insensitive because I said that fat people have mostly themselves to blame for their obesity.

You dared to hold somebody accountable for their own actions, rather than making excuses for them?!?! You insensitive bastard!

[Alex]

I notice a difference when I travel to the States, but Vancouver's a pretty image-conscious town. Plenty of rural areas in Canada have just as many overweight people.
Europe has apprently caught up to america on the obesity fronty, percentage wize.
The reason?
....
Wait forit....
Americanization of their culture.
Apprently, america's culture is what acauses people to get fat. (Not sure why the japanese aren't balloning as well)

[Dil]

Europe has apprently caught up to america on the obesity fronty, percentage wize.
The reason?
....
Wait forit....
Americanization of their culture.
Apprently, america's culture is what acauses people to get fat. (Not sure why the japanese aren't balloning as well)

True, but in France, we don't see "americanisation" as a good thing : many french love France as it is.

[Alex]

True, but in France, we don't see "americanisation" as a good thing : many french love France as it is.
Whether it's a good thing or not doesn't matter, i'm just passing on what i read.

[howyadoin]

However, when I do exercise, my leg muscles tend to gain muscle mass pretty quickly and I stay at about ten pounds over "ideal".10 pounds of muscle over ideal weight doesn't seem like much of a problem.

[The Dosadi Experiment]

Suppose an alcoholic wants to get sober; would you have any sympathy for him? Would you recognize that, even though he has nobody but himself to blame for his condition, he faces a very difficult struggle? Would you be encouraging and supportive of his efforts to try to recover from the catastrophic results of some really bad decisions?



The analogy is flawed.

Society doesn't treat alcoholics the same way as it does fat people.

There are more instances and pressure groups who tell the world and the obese that it's okay to be obese, it's okay to be fat, if that's what makes you happy then good for you. You're big and proud. They even have peagants for fat people. Parties for fat people, brands targetting fat people. You can flip on a tv and see that only two channels from that excercise buff is a sympathetic character who wants fat people to be emancipated members of society who should be happy with the way they look.

Drunk people get absolutely no love. There is nobody for them on the tv to tell them that it's okay to get piss-faced and they should be proud of their drinking problem and that they should wear it like a badge of honour.

I'm all for support. You want to get sober, I'll help you. You want to lose weight, be my guest, I'll take you to the gym.

I just don't think that people should be encouraged to just shrug and be content with the fact that they are grossly overweight.

[Shades0077]

"Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "Goddamn it, Otto, you are an alcoholic." "Goddamn it, Otto, you have Lupus." One of those two doesn't sound right."
-Mitch Hedberg-

[Boldido]

If someone is fat and happy with themselves, great, more power to them. If you go out of your way to denigrate them or ridicule them, then you are a dick.

If they complain about being fat and piss and moan to you about it and you say, "put down the donut and take a fucking walk", then more power to you. There is no point in having a problem that can be fixed, yet complaining about it and not doing anything to fix it.

Those two seem black and white, no one should really take issue with either of the above. (Wow, I'm channelling Bill O'Reilly.)

Where I see more problems is in areas where fat people expect their size to be accomodated by someone else. If you are so big that you take up two seats on an airplane, I don't have a problem with the notion that you should have to buy two tickets or at least pay more. If I weight fourhundred pounds and take up two seats, I am using more space and more of a limited resource. If I am consuming much more than the average person, why shouldn't I have to pay more. If I went to a restaurant and wanted two dinners, I would have to pay for two dinners. If I am buying clothes that require twice as much cloth to make as the average shirt or pants, why shouldn't I have to pay more? They cost more to make.

And for those of you who don't know me, I am a fat guy myself. I am also pretty tall and hate the airlines for discriminating against us tall people. That is something I have absolutely no control over.

[macul]

If someone is fat and happy with themselves, great, more power to them. If you go out of your way to denigrate them or ridicule them, then you are a dick.

If they complain and piss and moan to you and you say, "put down the donut and take a fucking walk", then more power to you. There is no point in having a problem that can be fixed, yet complaining about it and not doing anything to fix it.

Those two seem black and white, no one should really take issue with either of the above. (Wow, I'm channelling Bill O'Reilly.)

Where I see more problems is in areas where fat people expect their size to be accomodated by someone else. If you are so big that you take up two seats on an airplane, I don't have a problem with the notion that you should have to buy two tickets or at least pay more. If I weight fourhundred pounds and take up two seats, I am using more space and more of a limited resource. If I am consuming much more than the average person, why shouldn't I have to pay more. If I went to a restaurant and wanted two dinners, I would have to pay for two dinners. If I am buying clothes that require twice as much cloth to make as the average shirt or pants, why shouldn't I have to pay more? They cost more to make.

And for those of you who don't know me, I am a fat guy myself. I am also pretty tall and hate the airlines for discriminating against us tall people. That is something I have absolutely no control over.

If you had any respect for the rest of us you'd get your legs lopped off at the knees. The nerve of you.

[Forefinger]

Buncha fat fucks.....(I say this after weighing in at the heaviest I've ever been in my life, 196 lbs.)

[Boldido]

If you had any respect for the rest of us you'd get your legs lopped off at the knees. The nerve of you.

You're just pissed because you have to drink bottom shelf and middle shelf liquor. Your too short to reach the top shelf and none of us tall people will get it for you.

You swill drinking midget.

[macul]

You're just pissed because you have to drink bottom shelf and middle shelf liquor. Your too short to reach the top shelf and none of us tall people will get it for you.

You swill drinking midget.

Well, I'm 5'11", so I'm okay. I was talking about everyone else. I was just sticking up for the little man. I have a hacksaw ready.

[Shellhead]

"Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "Goddamn it, Otto, you are an alcoholic." "Goddamn it, Otto, you have Lupus." One of those two doesn't sound right."
-Mitch Hedberg-

It's an interesting disease, in that it takes control of the hand, repeatedly bringing the alcoholic beverage in contact with the lips.

By the way, while we are talking about sympathy for fat people, what about sympathy for starving people? Not everybody on this planet has the means to get three square meals a day.

[Boldido]

It's an interesting disease, in that it takes control of the hand, repeatedly bringing the alcoholic beverage in contact with the lips.

By the way, while we are talking about sympathy for fat people, what about sympathy for starving people? Not everybody on this planet has the means to get three square meals a day.

Bah!!! I have no sympathy for people that won't go where the food is.

[Dom]

It's an interesting disease, in that it takes control of the hand, repeatedly bringing the alcoholic beverage in contact with the lips.

Wow. That's true. I guess then we shouldn't feel bad for anorexic people. I mean, it's a disease that takes control of your hand and pushes food away from your mouth. Or bulimia, the ones that takes your hand and forces a finger down your throat.

[MacQuarrie]

Where I see more problems is in areas where fat people expect their size to be accomodated by someone else. If you are so big that you take up two seats on an airplane, I don't have a problem with the notion that you should have to buy two tickets or at least pay more. If I weight fourhundred pounds and take up two seats, I am using more space and more of a limited resource. If I am consuming much more than the average person, why shouldn't I have to pay more. If I went to a restaurant and wanted two dinners, I would have to pay for two dinners. If I am buying clothes that require twice as much cloth to make as the average shirt or pants, why shouldn't I have to pay more? They cost more to make.
I don't have a problem with any of that. My problem with the skinny guy in the next row; the one with the "I smell poop" facial expression, muttering "disgusting pig" just loud enough for the other guy to hear. The guy paid extra for his seat; what business is it of yours how much he weighs?

And in case anybody's wondering, I'm about 30 pounds heavier than I ought to be, but nowhere near obesity. I'm 5'10", 210 pounds and have a 36" waist. I just don't see any need for gratuitous rudeness to people.

[YoursTruly]

For alot of people it's entirely their fault for being overweight. There are some who have weight problems because of medications they have to take or thyroid problems. So I guess my answer to your question is no, it isn't insensitive to blame most people for their weight problems but know the reason that they're overweight before you go raggin on em.

[Shellhead]

Wow. That's true. I guess then we shouldn't feel bad for anorexic people. I mean, it's a disease that takes control of your hand and pushes food away from your mouth. Or bulimia, the ones that takes your hand and forces a finger down your throat.

I have a real problem with declaring every bad choice to be the result of mental illness. What about personal responsibility? Or if somebody is so completely lacking in self-control due to mental illness, maybe he needs to be locked up for his own safety. But just saying, oh that's a shame, I feel bad for him, is useless hand-wringing.

[Dom]

I have a real problem with declaring every bad choice to be the result of mental illness. What about personal responsibility? Or if somebody is so completely lacking in self-control due to mental illness, maybe he needs to be locked up for his own safety. But just saying, oh that's a shame, I feel bad for him, is useless hand-wringing.

You don't have to feel bad. I mean, if that was the case, then drug users wouldn't get rehab.

Everyone deserves the right to help and, in most cases, a caring person to help them through their bad choices.

I don't know if alcoholism counts as a mental illness, but I've seen what it does to people. People in a depression that don't know how to cope. It's isn't pretty, and if it doesn't count as a disease, then it must be for literal reasons.

It's bad, and I'll have sympathy and help for anyone who wants to get out of it.

[Dreadstar]

I have a real problem with declaring every bad choice to be the result of mental illness. What about personal responsibility? Or if somebody is so completely lacking in self-control due to mental illness, maybe he needs to be locked up for his own safety. But just saying, oh that's a shame, I feel bad for him, is useless hand-wringing.

You do realize that the jury is still out as to whether alcoholism should be classified as a "mental illness" or a "physical illness" don't you? I think the prevailing modern thought is that true alcoholism is a combination of physical reaction to alcohol and mental response to the physical reaction.

Right now, I think it is indeed classified as a mental illness, though.

So, how do you feel about the bipolar person going through a severe down cycle and can't get out of bed? Lacking in self-control?

[Shellhead]

You don't have to feel bad. I mean, if that was the case, then drug users wouldn't get rehab.

Everyone deserves the right to help and, in most cases, a caring person to help them through their bad choices.

I don't know if alcoholism counts as a mental illness, but I've seen what it does to people. People in a depression that don't know how to cope. It's isn't pretty, and if it doesn't count as a disease, then it must be for literal reasons.

It's bad, and I'll have sympathy and help for anyone who wants to get out of it.

I agree about helping anyone who wants to overcome their problems. But I get tired of all the excuses that people make instead of admitting their bad choices. If a person doesn't take responsibility for his bad choices, he is unlikely to do anything to improve. I think alcoholism is officially considered a form of mental illness, but to me, that is a mistake. The alcoholic can justify and continue his behavior just by saying, I can't help it because I'm mentally ill. It's not my fault. Don't blame me, blame the bottle. It's genetics. They made me do it. I should sue somebody. Give me some money. All excuses, and none of those excuses will help them stop.

[StoneGold]

You know what this thread needs?

Girls jumping on trampolines!!

http://www.bouncewell.com/mini-trampoline-images/KJStretch.jpg
http://www.bouncewell.com/mini-trampoline-images/KJBounces.jpg

[Dom]

I agree about helping anyone who wants to overcome their problems. But I get tired of all the excuses that people make instead of admitting their bad choices. If a person doesn't take responsibility for his bad choices, he is unlikely to do anything to improve. I think alcoholism is officially considered a form of mental illness, but to me, that is a mistake. The alcoholic can justify and continue his behavior just by saying, I can't help it because I'm mentally ill. It's not my fault. Don't blame me, blame the bottle. It's genetics. They made me do it. I should sue somebody. Give me some money. All excuses, and none of those excuses will help them stop.

I honestly don't understand.

I'm sorry.

Do you feel the same way about other mental illnesses or illnesses that are perceived "responsibility lapses"? Or is it just alcoholism.

I also don't get the "give me some money" comment. Where is that coming from? And who is suing anyone for alcoholism?

[macul]

dom, I think the problem is when people treat alcoholism on the same level as a true disease, such as sickle cell. There is a HUGE difference between the two and that difference is choice. Unless we're talking about some newborn, everyone else out there made a choice to pick up a bottle. A person born with sickle cell was not afforded a choice.

[Shellhead]

I honestly don't understand.

I'm sorry.

Do you feel the same way about other mental illnesses or illnesses that are perceived "responsibility lapses"? Or is it just alcoholism.

I also don't get the "give me some money" comment. Where is that coming from? And who is suing anyone for alcoholism?

I'm particularly harsh on the alcoholics, because my dad is one. He also smokes and eats too much. I love him, but he's killing himself, and that's hard to watch. "Give me some money" is about the modern American concept that personal failings are actually caused by other people, who deserve to be sued. While no alcholics have had the nerve to sue anybody for their "disease", lots of smokers have sued the tobacco companies, and there was that frivolous lawsuit against McDonald's for causing people to get fat.

[Dom]

dom, I think the problem is when people treat alcoholism on the same level as a true disease, such as sickle cell. There is a HUGE difference between the two and that difference is choice. Unless we're talking about some newborn, everyone else out there made a choice to pick up a bottle. A person born with sickle cell was not afforded a choice.

Sure, all alcoholics made that initial choice.

Does that mean we get to marginalize or demean what they go through? Do you honestly think anyone would go through with that choice if they believed alcoholism would happen to them?

No one goes to the bottle with the express purpose of becoming alcoholic. Just like no one has unprotected sex so they can get AIDS and no one handles rusty metal so they can get an infection.

My mind and heart is not so full that I can't treat both people with the same care and compassion. Because I don't give a shit how they got there, only that they need help now.

Like I said, I believe all drug addicts who want rehab should have a place to get it. They made a choice, and now they regret it. I can only hope no one rubs my face in all my bad decisions in life.

[Dreadstar]

I can only hope no one rubs my face in all my bad decisions in life.


I plan on posting pictures of you wearing that lime green leisure suit for the rest of my life.

[Dom]

I plan on posting pictures of you wearing that lime green leisure suit for the rest of my life.

I'm just thankful that drunk pic got deleted.

I was real drunk.

[macul]

Sure, all alcoholics made that initial choice.

Does that mean we get to marginalize or demean what they go through? Do you honestly think anyone would go through with that choice if they believed alcoholism would happen to them?

I don't think anyone suggested that. I'm illustrating why the comparison is bad. I won't marginalize someone who is overweight or has a drinking problem. I'll do what I can to help that person recover if they truly make an attempt to do so. However, I won't go so far as to treat their problem as a disease. Disease implies the person is free of responsibility for their condition.

[K'Nort]

The main thing I am opposed to is generalizing. People like to think of themselves as individual beautiful snowflakes but then are so quick to lump everyone else into one pile. There are some people who are obese for assorted medical reasons. There are some people who are not. None of this stuff is one (XXXL) size fits all. There's pretty much no context where you can accurate talk about "fat people."

And re alcoholics, it makes no sense to me to say "it's their own darn fault for the first time they choose to take a drink." The average person is not an alcoholic. And nobody knows in advance whether they will be one. And since they had no way of knowing when they first tried drinking what would happen, and especially since the odds were against it, that really can't be called their own damn fault. That specific thing.

[Dom]

I don't think anyone suggested that. I'm illustrating why the comparison is bad. I won't marginalize someone who is overweight or has a drinking problem. I'll do what I can to help that person recover if they truly make an attempt to do so. However, I won't go so far as to treat their problem as a disease. Disease implies the person is free of responsibility for their condition.

Actually, disease implies that its an impairment of normal functions.

Using your implicaiton, people who have unprotected sex and get AIDS don't have a disease.

[Shellhead]

Actually, disease implies that its an impairment of normal functions.

Using your implicaiton, people who have unprotected sex and get AIDS don't have a disease.

Are you saying that people who choose to have unprotected sex are mentally ill?

[cactusmaac]

For some people, there is a genetic component to addiction and it can be fairly called a disease i.e. a physical disorder they did not willingly court.

Not for all though.

[K'Nort]

Are you saying that people who choose to have unprotected sex are mentally ill?

It sounds like one of you is talking about the causes of behaviour and one of you is talking about the results.

[macul]

Actually, disease implies that its an impairment of normal functions.

Using your implicaiton, people who have unprotected sex and get AIDS don't have a disease.

I think you are deliberately skewing the point here, dom. I also think you know that isn't what I meant.

[Dom]

Are you saying that people who choose to have unprotected sex are mentally ill?

I'm saying that if they get AIDS or HIV, they still have a disease.

Whether it was because of a choice or not.

[Dom]

I think you are deliberately skewing the point here, dom. I also think you know that isn't what I meant.

I have no idea what you meant.

I didn't think disease implied an inherent sense of responsibility.

[Dom]

It sounds like one of you is talking about the causes of behaviour and one of you is talking about the results.

Damn you and your logic.

[Dreadstar]

Quite simply, if alcoholism carries a physical component apart from the psychological, then it *is* classifiable as a disease.

[macul]

I'm saying that if they get AIDS or HIV, they still have a disease.

Whether it was because of a choice or not.

Choice is still the key, though. A person with AIDS can't choose for it to go away. An alcoholic can. An overweight person can. That doesn't imply that the choice will be easy to carry out, but it is still a huge difference between a "traditional" disease, such as sickle cell.

[Converge]

Suppose an alcoholic wants to get sober; would you have any sympathy for him? Would you recognize that, even though he has nobody but himself to blame for his condition, he faces a very difficult struggle? Would you be encouraging and supportive of his efforts to try to recover from the catastrophic results of some really bad decisions?

Okay, so suppose instead of alcohol, the guy's problem is obesity. Suppose he wants to lose weight, but the weight he's trying to lose also limits his ability to exercise. His metabolism is shot, making him retain weight even if he diets heavily. He's developing diabetes and a heart condition and high blood pressure, his knees and back are messed up...

You really couldn't work up an encouraging word for that guy? Not even a good luck?

There are lots of destructive and harmful things people do to themselves; why is obesity the only unforgiveable one?

Whoever said that we should pity alcoholics, but not fat people? No one ever said we shouldn't give fat people encouragement. But we shouldn't go around telling people that it's OK to be fat, for the same reason that we shouldn't tell people that it's OK to be an alcoholic. Neither one is OK.

[Dom]

Choice is still the key, though. A person with AIDS can't choose for it to go away. An alcoholic can. An overweight person can. That doesn't imply that the choice will be easy to carry out, but it is still a huge difference between a "traditional" disease, such as sickle cell.

I had a really bad response, but I've forgone that.

What does it matter, after the fact? Is it the choice that got them into this mess that bothers you? Or the choice that can get them out?

I have no idea. All I ever said was that alcoholism, obesity, drug use, whatever deserves the same treatement and the same consideration.

The choice that started it is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, I just don't care. If you don't like alcoholics or fat people, fine. If you think they're weak and stupid, fine. But don't keep trying to cut down what they go through because they had a choice in the matter.

[Corrina]

How would people define fat?

We can all probably agree on what's very overweight. Heck, I can agree on my own need to lose weight.

However, from this and the other thread, I think there's a difference between having a healthy body and having a movie-star physique.

Most people, as they grow older, aren't going to have the Brad Pitt or Christian Bale batman body shape. But if they're healthy and yet don't have the muscle definition, would you consider them fat?

Right now, my goal is to make sure I exercise and eat healthy. I don't expect to end up looking like Linda Hamilton in "Terminator 2." But I do expect to be in the shape where it's not adversely affecting my health. Right now, I'm not even close to morbidly obese--it's not even clear to me how much the extra weight is having on my overall health in the short term.

In the longer term, however, it is certainly good to make better choices, especially in what I eat.

But I certainly wouldn't call women who don't have totally flat stomachs or a small amount of extra weight around the hips 'fat' or necessarily unhealthy. My mother has had a tiny waist all her life. She's never been more than a size 4. She's also had thyroid problems and is diabetic, plus other issues.

Anyway, I'm not sure when people here say 'fat' what exactly they mean. There are medical standards, to be sure but there also seem to be some personal standards here different from that.

[Converge]

I don't have a problem with any of that. My problem with the skinny guy in the next row; the one with the "I smell poop" facial expression, muttering "disgusting pig" just loud enough for the other guy to hear. The guy paid extra for his seat; what business is it of yours how much he weighs?

And in case anybody's wondering, I'm about 30 pounds heavier than I ought to be, but nowhere near obesity. I'm 5'10", 210 pounds and have a 36" waist. I just don't see any need for gratuitous rudeness to people.

Obesity is physically repulsive. Like bad hygiene.

[Spike-X]

A lot of people, when they call women 'fat', what they really mean is, "You can't see their ribs, and they actually have hips".

So, yeah. It would help to have some kind of objective standard as to what actually constitutes being overweight.

[Dom]

Obesity is physically repulsive. Like bad hygiene.

And yet, Luther Vandross got laid more than I ever will.

[macul]

I had a really bad response, but I've forgone that.

What does it matter, after the fact? Is it the choice that got them into this mess that bothers you? Or the choice that can get them out?

As shellhead said, it matters because of how we deal with it. I don't think the people deserve the perception that their condition is on the same scale as cancer or sickle cell. I'm all for helping them, though. I've done it several times myself. That doesn't mean I can't look at how they got themselves where they are. If we don't do that then we aren't really fixing a problem so much as patching it up.


I'm sorry, I just don't care. If you don't like alcoholics or fat people, fine. If you think they're weak and stupid, fine. But don't keep trying to cut down what they go through because they had a choice in the matter.

Let's not confuse the facts. I never cut them down. I never called them weak or stupid. DO NOT put words in my mouth. If you can't hold this conversation without resorting to such tactics then there is no point in continuing.

[Dom]

As shellhead said, it matters because of how we deal with it. I don't think the people deserve the perception that their condition is on the same scale as cancer or sickle cell. I'm all for helping them, though. I've done it several times myself. That doesn't mean I can't look at how they got themselves where they are. If we don't do that then we aren't really fixing a problem so much as patching it up.

Ok then, what kinds of cancer? Do we treat the people with lung cancer differently? The smokers get berated and told they brought this on themselves while the ones who had the misfortune of working in poor conditions get thier hand held?

What does it matter how they got there if they're suffering now? They know they made a mistake. We don't need to remind them. Just like smokers know they messed up when the doctor gives them the news.

Unless, naturally, we're dealing with the insincere AA members. I've known a few who joined just to make someone happy. They went right back to the bottle.


Let's not confuse the facts. I never cut them down. I never called them weak or stupid. DO NOT put words in my mouth. If you can't hold this conversation without resorting to such tactics then there is no point in continuing.

When you want to put them into a lesser class or somehow rationalize away their suffering by trying to pin it on them, I call that cutting them down. You go back far enough, and we're all the architects of our own demise.

[Boldido]

Obesity is physically repulsive. Like bad hygiene.

Someone has never heard of chubby chasers.

[Converge]

Someone has never heard of chubby chasers.

I've heard of them.

I've also heard of scat fetishists. Not that it's necessarilly related or anything.

[west3man]

Choice is still the key, though. A person with AIDS can't choose for it to go away. An alcoholic can. An overweight person can. That doesn't imply that the choice will be easy to carry out, but it is still a huge difference between a "traditional" disease, such as sickle cell.
I think you raise some good points, but I wanted to mention that, as far as I've heard, alcoholism remains, even when the alcoholic remains sober.

I think that extends into other realms, but I'm too lazy to type anything other than "etc."

Etc.

[Converge]

The thing about alcoholism is that alcoholics need alcohol. If they don't drink it they go into siezures and have to be hospitalized. It's not like cigarettes where they can just quit cold turkey.

[Shellhead]

I suppose that some of us (including me) may be tip-toeing around the elephant in the room: internet addiction. How many hours a day do we spend surfing the internet? I still spend time with family and friends and remain very physically active, but it wouldn't hurt if I cut down on my daily internet time.

[west3man]

I suppose that some of us (including me) may be tip-toeing around the elephant in the room: internet addiction. How many hours a day do we spend surfing the internet? I still spend time with family and friends and remain very physically active, but it wouldn't hurt if I cut down on my daily internet time.
This'd be when I wonder how each person's defining "addiction."

I have a strong compulsion to interact in places where I can receive a certain type of entertainment or be stimulated by certain types of interaction... types that are rare, for me, in the "real" world. I don't call that an addiction any more than I'd call the desire to get out of the house, regularly, an addiction.

It's always been a blurry line for me, though.

[Dreadstar]

The thing about alcoholism is that alcoholics need alcohol. If they don't drink it they go into siezures and have to be hospitalized. It's not like cigarettes where they can just quit cold turkey.

Ummmmm... what?

[Shellhead]

This'd be when I wonder how each person's defining "addiction."

I have a strong compulsion to interact in places where I can receive a certain type of entertainment or be stimulated by certain types of interaction... types that are rare, for me, in the "real" world. I don't call that an addiction any more than I'd call the desire to get out of the house, regularly, an addiction.

It's always been a blurry line for me, though.

Maybe you just need a monitor with higher resolution? ;)

[west3man]

Maybe you just need a monitor with higher resolution? ;)
*makes adjustments*

Ahhh. Thanks!

[Converge]

Ummmmm... what?

I thought I was pretty clear.

[west3man]

I thought I was pretty clear.
How many alcoholics have you ever known to experience convulsions from having too LITTLE alcohol?

[Converge]

How many alcoholics have you ever known to experience convulsions from having too LITTLE alcohol?

My Aunt. She had to be hospitalized and she almost died.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill.

From Wikipedia:

"There are several distinct but not mutually exclusive clinical alcohol withdrawal syndromes caused by alcohol withdrawal:

Tremulousness - "the shakes"
Activation syndrome - characterized by tremulousness, agitation, rapid heart beat and high blood pressure.
Seizures - acute grand mal seizures can occur in alcohol withdrawal in patients who have no history of seizure or any structural brain disease.
Hallucinations - usually visual or tactile in alcoholics
Delirium tremens - can be severe and often fatal.
Unlike withdrawal from opioids such as heroin, which can be very unpleasant but never fatal, alcohol withdrawal can kill (by uncontrolled convulsions or delirium tremens) if it is not properly managed. The pharmacological management of alcohol withdrawal is based on the fact that alcohol, barbiturates and benzodiazepines have remarkably similar effects on the brain and can be substituted for each other. Since benzodiazepines are the safest of the three classes of drugs, alcohol consumption is terminated and a long-acting benzodiazepine is substituted to block the alcohol withdrawal syndrome. The benzodiazepine dosage is then tapered slowly over a period of days or weeks."

[Converge]

My point is that comparing fat people to alcoholics really isn't a fair comparison.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Seems to be two camps here

A) Being fat is okay and even if it weren't they aren't responsible, genetics, thyroid problems, cushing's disease etc....

B) Being fat isn't okay, its unhealthy, disgusting and entirely brought on and caused by the people themselves and in the vast majority of cases can be "cured" by proper living

[macul]

What does it matter how they got there if they're suffering now? They know they made a mistake. We don't need to remind them. Just like smokers know they messed up when the doctor gives them the news.

I'm going to break this up in to two points because you seem to be confusing them.

1. I never advocated not helping these people. Help them. Please.
2. The cause of their condition is vitally important. Cause and effect. You've heard of that before, right? If you truly want to fix something then you deal with the root cause. You don't just treat the symptons.


When you want to put them into a lesser class or somehow rationalize away their suffering by trying to pin it on them, I call that cutting them down. You go back far enough, and we're all the architects of our own demise.

What you call rationalizing I call reality.

[macul]

Seems to be two camps here

A) Being fat is okay and even if it weren't they aren't responsible, genetics, thyroid problems, cushing's disease etc....

B) Being fat isn't okay, its unhealthy, disgusting and entirely brought on and caused by the people themselves and in the vast majority of cases can be "cured" by proper living

Three camps.

C) Being fat is okay if that's how you want to live, but be prepared to deal with consequences, such as paying for two seats on an airline if you take up two seats.

[K'Nort]

So, yeah. It would help to have some kind of objective standard as to what actually constitutes being overweight.

But it's also impossible. Too subjective.

[Typo Lad]

I'm from the school of "If you canna see yer feetsies, yer too chubbie"

[K'Nort]

My Aunt. She had to be hospitalized and she almost died.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill.

But that's only true in incredibly rare cases with all sorts of additional factors. Well well less than 1% of alcoholics. Putting down the bottle is still completely worth the "risk."

[west3man]

My Aunt. She had to be hospitalized and she almost died. I wasn't asking for an example so much as a number. Both are helpful, though. Considering the rest of your post, I'm less interested in a number, but it'd help give us some perspective.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill.

From Wikipedia:

"There are several distinct but not mutually exclusive clinical alcohol withdrawal syndromes caused by alcohol withdrawal:

Tremulousness - "the shakes"
Activation syndrome - characterized by tremulousness, agitation, rapid heart beat and high blood pressure.
Seizures - acute grand mal seizures can occur in alcohol withdrawal in patients who have no history of seizure or any structural brain disease.
Hallucinations - usually visual or tactile in alcoholics
Delirium tremens - can be severe and often fatal.
Unlike withdrawal from opioids such as heroin, which can be very unpleasant but never fatal, alcohol withdrawal can kill (by uncontrolled convulsions or delirium tremens) if it is not properly managed. The pharmacological management of alcohol withdrawal is based on the fact that alcohol, barbiturates and benzodiazepines have remarkably similar effects on the brain and can be substituted for each other. Since benzodiazepines are the safest of the three classes of drugs, alcohol consumption is terminated and a long-acting benzodiazepine is substituted to block the alcohol withdrawal syndrome. The benzodiazepine dosage is then tapered slowly over a period of days or weeks."

Yeah. I'd still wonder how common this is.

In any event, I think that's why Dread responded the way that he did.

My point is that comparing fat people to alcoholics really isn't a fair comparison. You say that alcoholics require alcohol.

People require food.

That may be over-simplifying, but the point is that the need or compulsion to over-indulge seems to be essential to the comparison. If that need or compulsion is common to both, then the comparison may be fair.

[west3man]

I'm from the school of "If you canna see yer feetsies, yer too chubbie"
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/249932.jpg

[Dom]

I'm going to break this up in to two points because you seem to be confusing them.

1. I never advocated not helping these people. Help them. Please.
2. The cause of their condition is vitally important. Cause and effect. You've heard of that before, right? If you truly want to fix something then you deal with the root cause. You don't just treat the symptons.



Ok, seems I was confused. Mind you, I still am.

If you have a cure for depression, lets get to it. No wait, not depression, that's a symptom. We need to get to the root problems.

Can you cure a wife cheating on a husband? Love not returned? A lost job?An abusive father? A death in the family? Or any of the thousands of reasons that drive a person to the bottle? Or to eat a lot?

Should be punish bars? Or liquor stores? Or people who brew their own swill?

Sure, treating the problem would be fantastic. But lets talk reality. We can't do that. We can't stop people from being self destructive. We can't make everyone realize that there is always hope. All we can do if pick people up when they fall down.

Do we figure out the cause or someone's alcoholism or obesity or whatever, to what end? What's the difference? We can't go back and take it away. We can't cure what makes a person go down that road.

The root is easy, people don't know how to cope. They don't know how try to look beyond the bad times in front of them. Or they have no one to lean on, the help them. The root is easy. If you have cure for the root, good. Otherwise, we're just going to have to deal with the symptoms.

[Typo Lad]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/249932.jpg

And I'd say they were too big, if I were pressed.

Actually, if I were pressed, Id be suffocated. Great day in the morning!

[Converge]

That may be over-simplifying, but the point is that the need or compulsion to over-indulge seems to be essential to the comparison. If that need or compulsion is common to both, then the comparison may be fair.

It's not fair because there are degrees of addiction. An addiction to junk food isn't on the same level as an addiction to alcohol. No one is going to go into siezures and die if they just stop eating junk food. In fact, they'll just start getting healthier. I don't know of anyone ever needing to check themselves into a detoxification clinic for over-eating or a lack of exercise.

[macul]

Sure, treating the problem would be fantastic. But lets talk reality. We can't do that. We can't stop people from being self destructive. We can't make everyone realize that there is always hope. All we can do if pick people up when they fall down.

Do we figure out the cause or someone's alcoholism or obesity or whatever, to what end? What's the difference? We can't go back and take it away. We can't cure what makes a person go down that road.

The root is easy, people don't know how to cope. They don't know how try to look beyond the bad times in front of them. Or they have no one to lean on, the help them. The root is easy. If you have cure for the root, good. Otherwise, we're just going to have to deal with the symptoms.

Well, I understand you now. You have a defeatist attitude. You don't think the cause can be fixed. That explains everything.

[Rosie]

This topic is unfair.

I get banned the next time I lash out, yet until the anti-fat people do they can be as hateful as they like.

I really don't think it's fair to put more personally directed and very warranted anger over outright prejudice.

Anti-fat is a prejudice too, live with it. Until you can someone get inside every fat persons head and prove they're inferior, you're blowing hateful steam.

And that includes people that claim "It's their own fault" - how do you know they're not just saying that because you are, and if you claim otherwise you're a hyprocite, forcing your views down their throat?

[Gumbo Maximillian]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/249932.jpg


Though I think its safe to say her breasts have nothing to do with fat but more like silicone.

[Dom]

Well, I understand you now. You have a defeatist attitude. You don't think the cause can be fixed. That explains everything.

Hey, you wanted realism.

So, how do we fix the causes? If you know how we can teach the world to cope, stop keeping it to yourself.

And I would think a defeatist wouldn't bother helping at all. I mean, I think about half of rehab patients relapse. I was defeatist, I would just stop trying to help at all.

[Converge]

Though I think its safe to say her breasts have nothing to do with fat but more like silicone.

Dolly Parton's breasts are 100% real!

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Hey, you wanted realism.

So, how do we fix the causes? If you know how we can teach the world to cope, stop keeping it to yourself.

And I would think a defeatist wouldn't bother helping at all. I mean, I think about half of rehab patients relapse. I was defeatist, I would just stop trying to help at all.

Though saying all fat people eat because they are depressed might be generalizing and while more sympathetic to Rosie's cause ultimately goes against it, since it still teaches it as a "bad" thing, just something they can't control.

Most fat people probably eat alot because they like food; like how people play video games because they like games etc....not because they have emotional issues.

[Rosie]

If someone to prove to me, who is about 50+ pounds overweight, who has tried to loose it and cannot, and not only that, that the pain of loosing weight is far greater than the pain of BEING overweight, that my weight is entirely my fault, then I will concede the argument.

What really annoys me about anti-fat people more than any others is that they presume they know everything that person does and feels better than themselves, which is just about the most offensive and downright stupid thing I can think of. It really shows how little respect people, even fat people themselves, have for these people.

[Dom]

Though saying all fat people eat because they are depressed might be generalizing and while more sympathetic to Rosie's cause ultimately goes against it, since it still teaches it as a "bad" thing, just something they can't control.

Most fat people probably eat alot because they like food; like how people play video games because they like games etc....not because they have emotional issues.

That's a fine point.

I used to eat because I was depressed. But I would wager people that like food that much have some emotional problems.

I mean being a glutton for anything, food, drink, sex, exercise, indicates a lack of balance in your life.

[Rosie]

I have some very nasty personal issues. Loosing weight is very hard when you know, if you do, that you're still physically deformed, if not more so.

Anyway, to EVERYONE in this topic arguing against fat people, I stress you read this:

http://www.moonspheres.com/i.html

If you aren't touch by that, then I really don't respect you much as an emotional being.

[macul]

Hey, you wanted realism.

So, how do we fix the causes? If you know how we can teach the world to cope, stop keeping it to yourself.

And I would think a defeatist wouldn't bother helping at all. I mean, I think about half of rehab patients relapse. I was defeatist, I would just stop trying to help at all.

There is room for both, dom. There is room to help and room to accept why the person's condition came about. You are treating this as either/or.

[west3man]

Though I think its safe to say her breasts have nothing to do with fat but more like silicone.
Just saying there are other reasons one might not be able to see one's footseses.

[Dom]

Just saying there are other reasons one might not be able to see one's footseses.

Blindness, for instance.

[west3man]

Blindness, for instance.
And shoes! Don't forget shoes!

[phoenixrising]

Anti-fat is a prejudice too, live with it. Until you can someone get inside every fat persons head and prove they're inferior, you're blowing hateful steam.


From what I've read here, no one is saying that overweight people are inferior. I think you're just looking for a reason to get all riled up. The question is: do the overweight deserve pity? And most people seem to be saying no.

Pity isn't helpful to anyone - but understanding can be (which is what i assume you're pushign for under all that anger). And denying someone special priviledges and discounts (such as not paying more for a bigger airline seat) is not being "prejudiced" or discriminatory, but rather just the opposite.

If someone to prove to me, who is about 50+ pounds overweight, who has tried to loose it and cannot, and not only that, that the pain of loosing weight is far greater than the pain of BEING overweight, that my weight is entirely my fault, then I will concede the argument.


So you're saying that only fat people are allowed to talk about this and be believable? Not the formerly overweight, the families of those who are overweight, not medical professionals or even those who have studied the topic? Our beliefs don't matter to you because of...your own prejudice?

[Shellhead]

Dolly Parton's breasts are 100% real!

Years ago, she had breast reduction surgery, due to back problems. I assume that they were 100% real then, if not, they sure are now.

[Dom]

There is room for both, dom. There is room to help and room to accept why the person's condition came about. You are treating this as either/or.

Because I can't see anyone sitting with an AIDS patient and telling them that they have to accept that they brought this on themselves.

To do so would be unnecessary, unhelpful and downright mean.

And yet I don't understand why we are allowed or expected to do this with alcoholics and drug users.

Not that you said that, just in the manner in which these diseases are treated. Like they are almost entirely different, when they really aren't.

[west3man]

Years ago, she had breast reduction surgery, due to back problems. I assume that they were 100% real then, if not, they sure are now.
A number of people were SURE that Lindsay's were fake, too,... til she lost all that weight without looking like a blow-up doll.

[phoenixrising]

I, for one, don't think the overweight deserves pity/sympathy. (Really, no one deserves pity - its pretty damn demeaning). They deserve help and if they don't want it, then they deserve to be left to their own devices and treated no differently from anyone else. The world should not give them any sort of special treatment because of extra weight, either.

If equality is what people want, equality is what they should get, services rendered = services paid. Why should my health insurance premiums go up because of how much money the insurance system has to pay to treat the effects of obesity? Maybe they should pay higher premiums. Why should an overweight person not have to pay more for a bigger airline seat when, if I wanted two seats or a bigger seat, I'd have to pay for it? Why should I have to pay more for longer pants but an overweight person could pay the same for XXL clothes? Etc. etc.

[MacQuarrie]

Pity isn't helpful to anyone - but understanding can be (which is what i assume you're pushign for under all that anger).
I think a lot of overweight people would settle for civility.

[howyadoin]

A lot of people, when they call women 'fat', what they really mean is, "You can't see their ribs, and they actually have hips".

So, yeah. It would help to have some kind of objective standard as to what actually constitutes being overweight.Apparently Converge thinks he's that yardstick.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Because I can't see anyone sitting with an AIDS patient and telling them that they have to accept that they brought this on themselves.

To do so would be unnecessary, unhelpful and downright mean.

And yet I don't understand why we are allowed or expected to do this with alcoholics and drug users.

Not that you said that, just in the manner in which these diseases are treated. Like they are almost entirely different, when they really aren't.


The thing is; people with AID's can't get rid of it, there are things to improve their situation but there is no cure.

[macul]

Because I can't see anyone sitting with an AIDS patient and telling them that they have to accept that they brought this on themselves.

To do so would be unnecessary, unhelpful and downright mean.

And yet I don't understand why we are allowed or expected to do this with alcoholics and drug users.

Not that you said that, just in the manner in which these diseases are treated. Like they are almost entirely different, when they really aren't.

They are quite different. There is a chance of relapse with alcoholism and obesity.

[phoenixrising]

I think a lot of overweight people would settle for civility.

I wasn't aware I was being uncivil. Or that anyone has made a sufficient claim so far that overweight people are treated without civility in public on a regular basis. Is there really a mass hate campaign against the overweight going on outside of high schools (and message boards)? Or is it just a suspicioun based in low self-esteem that has been extrapolated from the bad behavior of a few random assholes (the sort of which everyone - fat, thin, etc. - have to deal with).

[Gumbo Maximillian]

They are quite different. There is a chance of relapse with alcoholism and obesity.

Basically if you get a cold by running around outside in the winter; you got a disease but its not like getting aids and its not surprsing that people might be annoyed with you for having to take care of you because you did something stupid.

[macul]

Is this one of those politically correct topics in which we're just supposed to nod our head and blindly agree else be labeled as bigots, hateful, et cetera?

[Shellhead]

Because I can't see anyone sitting with an AIDS patient and telling them that they have to accept that they brought this on themselves.

To do so would be unnecessary, unhelpful and downright mean.

And yet I don't understand why we are allowed or expected to do this with alcoholics and drug users.

Not that you said that, just in the manner in which these diseases are treated. Like they are almost entirely different, when they really aren't.

Some discussion of responsible behavior should be mandatory with an AIDS victim. Regardless of their degree of complicity in their own infection, they have a serious responsibility not to infect other people. For those who did engage in risky activity (like unprotected sex with untested partners), there is cause to be concerned if they don't accept responsiblity for their condition, as that same sense of denial might result in more people getting infected by that person.

[Michael P]

This topic is unfair.

I get banned the next time I lash out, yet until the anti-fat people do they can be as hateful as they like.
I haven't seen anyone lash out or be hateful in this thread, at least not towards fat people. Maybe some towards alcoholics, but as far as I know, no edicts about that were laid down recently. (Incidentally, you're not the only one who got a warning after the hootenanny in the other thread, so don't play the victim.)

But hey, if it floats your boat, start a thread that says "Sympathy for anorexics?" and try to get a serious discussion about that going. I've got thoughts about that myself.

I have some very nasty personal issues.

And I respectfully suggest you deal with them.

[phoenixrising]

Is this one of those politically correct topics in which we're just supposed to nod our head and blindly agree else be labeled as bigots, hateful, et cetera?

I get that impression too. And it isn't the first time.

[nubly]

if little hercules can do it, anyone can

http://www.richardsandrak.com/3333.jpg
i really hope the boy isnt being fed synthetic hormones

[Michael P]

I wasn't aware I was being uncivil.
While I wouldn't presume to speak for Mac, my Spider-Sense tells me he wasn't leveling that accusation at you.

I used to have something in my sig that went "Did any of the comments/criticisms/judgments made in the above posts apply specifically to you? Then I wasn't talking about you." I'm thinking maybe I should bring it back.

[west3man]

While I wouldn't presume to speak for Mac, my Spider-Sense tells me he wasn't leveling that accusation at you.

I didn't think so, either.

I also wasn't sure if pho was just doing a process-of-elimination thing, by saying she wasn't being uncivil and neither were X, Y, or Z.


So, yeah, I waited til someone else was brave enough to speak up, then tossed in a "YEAH!"

[west3man]

if little hercules can do it, anyone can

http://www.richardsandrak.com/3333.jpg
i really hope the boy isnt being fed synthetic hormones
At least he's got some pants on in that one.

[howyadoin]

At least he's got some pants on in that one.Yeah, I can't wait for nubly's defense of people who are hot for underage boys.

[Quarterwolf]

Do you want to know the biggest problem fat people have?

Others always want to put their opinions on them and label them in some way to make themselves feel better.

Don't pity a fat person, don't feel sympathy for them. Noone I know wants that. All most fat people want is to be treated like everyone else and not have all the fun little lables put on them.

Being fat is unhealthy? Fine. Being fat is unsighly to you? Fine.

Just keep it to yourself and let them go on with their lives without you having to tell them what you think about them. Most are more then happy with the way their lives are and those that are not often have more important issues then just the fat to deal with. Most time people who are overweight are compensating for something else that is missing in their lives.

Others just love the taste of food and want to be left alone with the food.

Is it really nessicary for those who feel the need to feel superior to go through the hassle of making others feel less so? And yes Mandy I have seen it happen. It happens with all the stares and comments and such a person gets when they go out in public. Most would settle for people to just be civil.

[west3man]

Yeah, I can't wait for nubly's defense of people who are hot for underage boys.
Yeesh. I'm glad I missed whatever inspired that one.

I'm also glad that kid's wad isn't on-display, yet again. Maybe I *am* old-fashioned.

[phoenixrising]

And yes Mandy I have seen it happen. It happens with all the stares and comments and such a person gets when they go out in public. Most would settle for people to just be civil.

My question was is it a matter of society at large having a problem with the overweight or just rude assholes being who they are? I would expect there to be rudeness for anyone who stands out in any way (deformity, ragged clothing, overly thin, overly fat, disability, etc. etc.)...but do you see it as specifically different for overweight people?

[MacQuarrie]

I wasn't aware I was being uncivil. Or that anyone has made a sufficient claim so far that overweight people are treated without civility in public on a regular basis. Is there really a mass hate campaign against the overweight going on outside of high schools (and message boards)? Or is it just a suspicioun based in low self-esteem that has been extrapolated from the bad behavior of a few random assholes (the sort of which everyone - fat, thin, etc. - have to deal with).
Again, not you in particular.

Keep your ears open on an average day, and you're sure to see at least a few examples of people who think that terms like "lardass", "whale", and other such terms of endearment are acceptalbe for public use. I disagree.

And yes, overwheight people are treated without civility in public all the time. Tyra Banks just did an episode of her show in which she put on a fat suit and went out in public. Within 10 minutes, two snotnose teen girls told her she was disgusting, right to her face. She said she encountered more outright hatred in one hour as a fat person than she had seen in a lifetime of being black.

I have walked down the street with friends and seen people hang their heads out of their car windows and yell horrible things at them, and I have been assured that it happens all the time. I know people who go to great lengths to avoid doing anything in public that would invite scorn. They can never go swimming, for example, or dancing, or take an aerobics class, or do any exercise where people can see them unless they want to hear some idiot scream vulgarities at them.

Why is this okay?

[MacQuarrie]

My question was is it a matter of society at large having a problem with the overweight or just rude assholes being who they are? I would expect there to be rudeness for anyone who stands out in any way (deformity, ragged clothing, overly thin, overly fat, disability, etc. etc.)...but do you see it as specifically different for overweight people?
Yes, it is. Children are taught to not make rude comments about the poor and disabled. We avert our eyes and make a point of not staring at them (that's a whole 'nother topic), but fat people are fair game.

[phoenixrising]

While I wouldn't presume to speak for Mac, my Spider-Sense tells me he wasn't leveling that accusation at you.

I used to have something in my sig that went "Did any of the comments/criticisms/judgments made in the above posts apply specifically to you? Then I wasn't talking about you." I'm thinking maybe I should bring it back.

Upon re-reading it, it doesn't seem as obvious. I thought it was aimed at everyone in this thread...and I hadn't seen any real incivility here.

[Quarterwolf]

My question was is it a matter of society at large having a problem with the overweight or just rude assholes being who they are? I would expect there to be rudeness for anyone who stands out in any way (deformity, ragged clothing, overly thin, overly fat, disability, etc. etc.)...but do you see it as specifically different for overweight people?

No all I am saying is 9/10 of the time when I was out somewhere I would notice people staring or pointing at overweight people. I have no doubt there are others who also have this happen to them and it is not just to fat people. It has to do with society in general becoming less and less civil towards one another and more and more about thinking only of themselves.

[MacQuarrie]

Upon re-reading it, it doesn't seem as obvious. I thought it was aimed at everyone in this thread...and I hadn't seen any real incivility here.
Actually, it was aimed at one or two people who have been abusive and insulting on the topic, but mostly in the other thread.

[phoenixrising]

Why is this okay?

Glad I asked. I honestly don't know because the people I know really haven't had these sorts of social problems since high school (they nust be the lucky ones).

I don't think anyone here, at least, has said that sort is okay - nor would they. This and the other thread neighter one made any claimt hat fat people are "fair game". It isn't okay to treat anyone that way.

But going back to the thread topic, does such negative behavior merit an extreme in the other direction, going out of our way to accomodate and validate obesity? (I ask not as a challenge, but out of genuine curiousity)

[Shellhead]

Yes, it is. Children are taught to not make rude comments about the poor and disabled. We avert our eyes and make a point of not staring at them (that's a whole 'nother topic), but fat people are fair game.

Is this still true, when 60% of Americans are now considered to be obese? When modern fashions emphasize the relaxed fit? When some of our top celebrities are overweight?

[Rosie]

Is this still true, when 60% of Americans are now considered to be obese? When modern fashions emphasize the relaxed fit? When some of our top celebrities are overweight?

I don't know where you get the idea that fat people have it easy, and the measure for obesity is pretty horrible.

[StoneGold]

I don't know where you get the idea that fat people have it easy, and the measure for obesity is pretty horrible.
They do have those new fangled pants now with the elastic waistbands. That's easier.

[howyadoin]

When modern fashions emphasize the relaxed fit?Are you saying comfortable clothes are part of the pro-fat conspiracy?

[Rosie]

if little hercules can do it, anyone can

http://www.richardsandrak.com/3333.jpg
i really hope the boy isnt being fed synthetic hormones

If it stands for one, it stands for all. Do you know how terrible that logic stacks up in a debate?

Not only that, that kid had to have some kind of interest in body building(and probably steroids) to get that big.

If it's your interest, it makes it a heck of a lot easier. If you're not interested in something, it becomes pain and torture to do. That's one thing people are forgetting.

If your hobby involves heavy, heavy excerise, then you're going to be wired to do it, stands to reason, right?

[Dom]

I don't know where you get the idea that fat people have it easy, and the measure for obesity is pretty horrible.

I honestly have no idea where you culled that out of.

He didn't say that.

He implied that the fat are taking over the world with relaxed fit clothing and chubby celebrities.

[Winslow]

Are you saying comfortable clothes are part of the pro-fat conspiracy?

I'm thin, but I love my Levis 550s.

[nubly]

Yeah, I can't wait for nubly's defense of people who are hot for underage boys.
.................

[Rosie]

I honestly have no idea where you culled that out of.

He didn't say that.

He implied that the fat are taking over the world with relaxed fit clothing and chubby celebrities.

Ah, yes, I'm sorry. I mistook insanity for stupidity.

[nubly]

If it stands for one, it stands for all. Do you know how terrible that logic stacks up in a debate?

Not only that, that kid had to have some kind of interest in body building(and probably steroids) to get that big.

If it's your interest, it makes it a heck of a lot easier. If you're not interested in something, it becomes pain and torture to do. That's one thing people are forgetting.

If your hobby involves heavy, heavy excerise, then you're going to be wired to do it, stands to reason, right?

And your avatar is still pretentious.
im pretty sure he is taking synthetic hormones, despite what his parents say. richard sandrak isnt really an ideal example of what people should look like since he is still at a young age.

that said, i would like to again state that eating habits are the key to losing bodyfat. you dont have hobbies that 'involves heavy, heavy excerise' to lose bodyfat. just eat right and the weight will come off. exercise just helps to speed things up

[Rosie]

that said, i would like to again state that eating habits are the key to losing bodyfat. you dont have hobbies that 'involves heavy, heavy excerise' to lose bodyfat. just eat right and the weight will come off. exercise just helps to speed things up

And once again you absolutely fail to back up your points. Can you prove that everyone can "eat right" as easy as "just" doing it and that the weight will come off?

Contrary to popular belief, an unbacked opinion isn't a valid one in a debate at all.

[nubly]

And once again you absolutely fail to back up your points. Can you prove that everyone can "eat right" as easy as "just" doing it and that the weight will come off?

Contrary to popular belief, an unbacked opinion isn't a valid one in a debate at all.
im at work right now but i'll see what i can dig up when i get home. its really surprising to me that people fail to realize that eating right means you'll trim down. its not a new concept

[Ultraman Max]

Are you saying comfortable clothes are part of the pro-fat conspiracy?

Yeah I didn't get that one either, didn't baggy clothes gain popularity when hip hop became the dominant pop music, much in the same way that flanel shirts were hot after Nirvana hit?

[StoneGold]

Are you saying comfortable clothes are part of the pro-fat conspiracy?
You know, I don't think it's fat clothes, so much as "sexy" fat clothes.

http://www.ssb4.net/users/13917/dsc04263.jpg

That's too much skirt in one direction, not enough in the other.

[StoneGold]

I'm on the plus size section of eBay right now. Want a pair of fishnet stockings stress rated for up to 250 pounds? Hell, I think you could actually go fishing with those.

http://promo.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?GetCrossPromos&strsellerid=ckc3kidsd&seller=1965687&item=5448781399&storecat=2&category=11527&listedsite=0&method=1&CurrentPage=VI&shipdiscount=0&track=MERC_VI&storeid=44642&random=318

[Brian Cronin]

I'm on the plus size section of eBay right now. Want a pair of fishnet stockings stress rated for up to 250 pounds? Hell, I think you could actually go fishing with those.

http://promo.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?GetCrossPromos&strsellerid=ckc3kidsd&seller=1965687&item=5448781399&storecat=2&category=11527&listedsite=0&method=1&CurrentPage=VI&shipdiscount=0&track=MERC_VI&storeid=44642&random=318

Now THIS, I could see a fat person being reasonably irked by.

Someone going on to the plus size sections of eBay to pick out items to mock.

-Brian

[Shellhead]

I don't know where you get the idea that fat people have it easy, and the measure for obesity is pretty horrible.

It's harder to oppress a majority group than a minority group.

[StoneGold]

Now THIS, I could see a fat person being reasonably irked by.

Someone going on to the plus size sections of eBay to pick out items to mock.

-Brian
Purely coincidence. It's my job right now to look over them. Swear to god. Now I'm on powerchair.

[Brian Cronin]

Purely coincidence. It's my job right now to look over them. Swear to god. Now I'm on powerchair.

I believe you.

-Brian

[Rosie]

im at work right now but i'll see what i can dig up when i get home. its really surprising to me that people fail to realize that eating right means you'll trim down. its not a new concept

Being able to eat right is another issue. No doubt your evidence will fail to take into account the different physical and mental makeup of every human being, too.

[tricksterpup]

Now THIS, I could see a fat person being reasonably irked by.

Someone going on to the plus size sections of eBay to pick out items to mock.

-Brian
Brian, the sad part is i can picture Stone Gold buying them and then finding a regular household use for them. Heck, I can even see him trying them on once or twice, in the privacy and comfort of his bedroom.

[StoneGold]

Brian, the sad part is i can picture Stone Gold buying them and then finding a regular house use for them. Heck, I can even see him trying them on once or twice, in the privacy and comfort of his bedroom.
Which leads to the question why you're imagining me dressing up in women's clothes. I told you already, I like you as a friend, but I'm just not into you that way.

[Bloopinator]

Fat people are short....skinny people are short...perfect people like me are tall....I have no sympathy for the short. No sympathy for the skinny or fat :p

[tricksterpup]

Which leads to the question why you're imagining me dressing up in women's clothes. I told you already, I like you as a friend, but I'm just not into you that way.
http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/B/Bassett.jpg

[Dan Apodaca]

I've done my best to stay out of these threads. It's just a giant minefield. But after this one, there's something I feel needs to be said.

To all the people asking why they should have sympathy for fat people?

Stop that. If you don't feel sympathy, then that's your perogative. But since when is it anybody else's responsibility to validate your feelings? And why do you feel the need to bring up the subject? Is it really so important to make sure somebody knows that you think poorly of them?

Look, if Joe Shmoe is fat, he's not hurting anybody but himself. Since when is it your place to make a point of telling him personally how wrong you think he is?


Why should you care about fat people?

Well, why should they care about you?

[Fabian]

So it's too hard to watch what you eat now?

[Bloopinator]

if little hercules can do it, anyone can

http://www.richardsandrak.com/3333.jpg
i really hope the boy isnt being fed synthetic hormones
First of all that's weird and second of all, he's short.

[Bloopinator]

So it's too hard to watch what you eat now?
It's easy for me but ever heard of MSG?

[K'Nort]

Like I'm passing this up.

Moderate drinkers show lower obesity risk
By Amy Norton
Mon Dec 5,10:20 AM ET

People who have an alcoholic drink or two a day may have a lower risk of becoming obese than either teetotalers or heavy drinkers, a study published Monday suggests.

Researchers found that among more than 8,200 U.S. adults, those who said they enjoyed a drink every day were 54 percent less likely than non-drinkers to be obese. Similarly, those who drank a little more (two drinks per day) or a little less (a few drinks per week) had a lower risk of obesity than teetotalers did.

Heavy drinking, on the other hand, raised the odds of obesity. People who downed four or more drinks a day were 46 percent more likely to be obese than non-drinkers were. Binge drinkers also showed a greater prevalence of obesity.

The findings are published online in the journal BMC Public Health.

Many studies have linked moderate drinking to better heart health, but only a few have looked at the relationship between drinking and body weight.

"It's a fairly new line of research," said study co-author James E. Rohrer, a professor of health services research at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.

It's possible, he told Reuters Health, that the lower prevalence of obesity among moderate drinkers helps explain the lower risk of heart disease.

However, Rohrer stressed that the findings do not imply that overweight people should take up drinking for the sake of their waistlines. Alcohol is high in calories, and it's not yet clear why moderate drinking is related to lesser odds of obesity.

Given that, Rohrer said, drinking should not be viewed as a "weight-loss strategy."

The study findings are based on data from a national health survey of Americans age 18 and older, conducted between 1988 and 1994. The researchers focused their analysis on 8,236 participants who had never smoked.

Overall, half of current drinkers were in the normal weight range, versus only about one-quarter of non-drinkers. Why this is so is unclear, but, Rohrer noted, he and colleague Dr. Ahmed Arif factored in the "usual suspects" in heart disease risk -- such as age, exercise levels, education and income -- and moderate drinking was still related to lower odds of obesity.

Though he cautioned against taking up drinking to trim the waistline, Rohrer also said the findings suggest that completely cutting out alcohol might backfire as a weight-loss plan.

SOURCE: BMC Public Health, online December 5, 2005.

[howyadoin]

Like I'm passing this up.I seem to recall reading somewhere that hard liquor in particualr tended to speed up the metabolism.

[K'Nort]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that hard liquor in particualr tended to speed up the metabolism.

On the other hand, there's the whole "beer gut" thing. Plus it's a depressent. I just don't know what to think.

I need a drink.

[Corrina]

Is this still true, when 60% of Americans are now considered to be obese? When modern fashions emphasize the relaxed fit? When some of our top celebrities are overweight?

Yeah, but modern fashions don't, at least for girls.

I have six-year-old twins. All the pants I buy for the little guy fit like pants should.

The little girl pants are all designed to hug the line of the leg.

On a freakin' elementary school kid.

I'll stop here. The designs of clothes for young girls just drives me absolutely insane. I buy her mostly boy's stuff. For the older (12), there's the same problem. Stuff designed to look sexy. At freakin' 12!!!

Again, I buy her boy's jeans a lot. Old Navy and Lands End also has some stuff. But you have to look for it.

When I was in my senior year of high school, I thought I was fat. Others seemed to think I was fat. I went back and looked at my photos. Yeesh. Who the hell ever decided I was fat? It's not even close. I mean, I wore a size 6-8 back then.

Society really messes with women's body images. Do I blame them for my being overweight now? No. But I am trying to get the message through to my girls that people like Kate Moss or the Olson twins or skinny Lindsey Lohan are *not* the ideal that everyone should be like or even can be like.

Which is not to blame anyone for my being overweight now nor do I expect pity or sympathy. People are responsible for their own actions. But society in general sure does a number on healthy teenage girls who don't fit the ideal, starting with the clothing available.

[StoneGold]

Hey, if I can't get a stiffy looking at a 4-year-old, then I don't want to be an American!!!



Wait a sec...

[Tadhg Adams]

On the other hand, there's the whole "beer gut" thing. Plus it's a depressent. I just don't know what to think.

I need a drink.

Yeah the Beer gut is from drinking way too much beer though.

[Converge]

When modern fashions emphasize the relaxed fit?

Modern fashions don't really emphasize a relaxed fit.

Maybe 10 years ago.

[Justin Davis]

I've gone quote happy!

How would people define fat?

When I first read that quote I thought you asked, "What people would define fat," but I see I was wrong. However, just to make the segue a bit easier, let's pretend that's what you did say. Then, I could say something like:

These people define fat: http://www.naafa.org/ - National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance

I really dislike this group, mainly, because I think they're damaging to people who identify themselves as fat. This is from the FAQ page about what NAAFA does:

The purpose of NAAFA is to:

* Work towards providing equal opportunity for fat people wherever obstacles and/or discrimination exist.
* Disseminate information about the sociological, psychological, legal, medical, and physiological aspects of being fat.
* Advocate and sponsor responsible research about the various aspects of being fat.
* Empower the large number of people regarded by the medical profession as "obese" to accept themselves, to live more fulfilling lives, and to promote acceptance of fat people within society.
* Serve as a forum where issues affecting fat people can be discussed in an unbiased setting.

The rest of NAAFA's information page is the same kind of rhetoric, mostly filled with rationalizations for being fat and all the ways they think they face legitimate discrimination.

Here's a quote from an article NAAFA links to on the main page.

"There is hope. In America, where fat people are quickly become the majority, businesses are finally beginning to get the message.

'We’re fat, we’re here and you’re going to have to listen to us,' Howell said.

Theaters are slowly beginning to install larger seats and restaurants are buying chairs without armrests. All because fat people are shedding the stigma and asking for what they need in public instead of being ashamed, said Howell’s sister Darliene."

I don't find restaurants buying chairs without armrests to accommodate fat people a positive thing. I understand the need for it, but by having a group like NAAFA flaunt this as an accomplishment sends the wrong message. Yes, it is unacceptable behavior by anyone to publicly humiliate or ridicule an overweight person, but that doesn't mean people should encourage fat people to stay that way. NAAFA seems to do just that thing.

Do you want to know the biggest problem fat people have?

Others always want to put their opinions on them and label them in some way to make themselves feel better.

Don't pity a fat person, don't feel sympathy for them. Noone I know wants that. All most fat people want is to be treated like everyone else and not have all the fun little lables put on them.

Then "fat acceptance" should not be endorsed as it's not the same thing as equality.

Is it really nessicary for those who feel the need to feel superior to go through the hassle of making others feel less so?

Which leads me directly to . .

To all the people asking why they should have sympathy for fat people?

Stop that. If you don't feel sympathy, then that's your perogative. But since when is it anybody else's responsibility to validate your feelings? And why do you feel the need to bring up the subject? Is it really so important to make sure somebody knows that you think poorly of them?

Look, if Joe Shmoe is fat, he's not hurting anybody but himself. Since when is it your place to make a point of telling him personally how wrong you think he is?

Why should you care about fat people?

Well, why should they care about you?

All very good points, but let me play devil's advocate for a couple of them. What if it's not just caring for fat people, but caring for people in general? Some, even if they go about it in not always the most considerate ways, feel they are helping a fat person out by pointing out more healthy ways to live. Also, your last question is a big one others haven't touched on yet. Why should fat people give a damn if some asshole called them a whale or tubby? Take those or drop them at your wish.

Finally, one of the posts that urged me to respond the most.


And yes, overwheight people are treated without civility in public all the time. Tyra Banks just did an episode of her show in which she put on a fat suit and went out in public. Within 10 minutes, two snotnose teen girls told her she was disgusting, right to her face. She said she encountered more outright hatred in one hour as a fat person than she had seen in a lifetime of being black.

Why is this okay?

No, and yes. There was so much wrong with that segment on her show as there has been with all the other shows, including Entertainment Tonight for some reason, that have tried this story. First of all, I've heard the current usage of fat suits by "news" outlets and talk shows described as a modern version of black face, and I can agree with that. Also, let's take a look at Vanessa Minnillo (no, I didn't know her name until just now) in a recent week-long fat suit story on Entertainment Tonight. Yes, Entertainment Tonight.

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/et.tv.yahoo.com/lib/images/celebs/2005/11/14/163_vminnillio_fatsuit_051114_et.jpg

To put it bluntly and mildly, she looks weird. A red velvet track suit is not attractive on most people, especially with a turtle neck. Plus, the fanny pack isn't helping any. Also, the fact that the make-up people didn't do anything to her nose gives her the tiny face on a big head look. This is about the quality and extent as most other fat suit shows I've seen. What makes this worse, and circles back around to what I said at the beginning, is that activist members of NAAFA join Vanessa and Mary Hart on the last day of the story to discuss reactions, fat culture, and other such things.

I do think it's possible to have sympathy for people, but not support the lifestyle of those same people.

[nubly]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that hard liquor in particualr tended to speed up the metabolism.
how many people drink moderately though? alcohol has too many empty calories

Look, if Joe Shmoe is fat, he's not hurting anybody but himself. Since when is it your place to make a point of telling him personally how wrong you think he is?
i have to disagree here broly. if a person gets so obese that they cant work, the who pays for his/her meals, bills, medicine, etc? tax payers. that hurts me more than anything else
Being able to eat right is another issue. No doubt your evidence will fail to take into account the different physical and mental makeup of every human being, too.
most people that claim to have a slow metabolism eat more than a normal person can handle. you cant blame genetics on that. as for mental, people eat or dont eat. i dont know whether they can force themselves to do either

[MacQuarrie]

i have to disagree here broly. if a person gets so obese that they cant work, the who pays for his/her meals, bills, medicine, etc? tax payers. that hurts me more than anything else
Unless of course the person in question is supported by their parents, spouse, children or other relatives, or they have some type of home-based employment. Many do. Some make a pretty good living, or live with someone who does.

Point being, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know the person's circumstances, so you are judging them in ignorance. That used to be called bigotry and prejudice. But I guess that's okay now.

Now, I do have to admit that the kind of abuse I've complained about happen a lot more and a lot more overtly here in La-La Land. LA is the land of silicone and sugar daddies, and anyone who doesn't look like a supermodel is held in open contempt. We are the shallowest and most superficial city on earth, and the things that are quite common here may not be normal in other places. So take my comments as a local phenomenon, but trust me, it really does happen. I've seen it.

[MacQuarrie]

But while we're at it, where are the "Skinny" equivalents of

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Mrcreosote.jpg
Mister Creosote

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/104/2808/640/Fat_Bastard.jpg
Fat Bastard

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/db_070_BigBoy.jpg
Jabba Lady

and many other "funny" fat characters?

[StoneGold]

But while we're at it, where are the "Skinny" equivalents of


and many other "funny" fat characters?
http://www.sscastaway.com/gilbig.jpg
http://www.cool-merchandise.com/acatalog/scooby-shaggy-poster.jpghttp://www.vh1.com/sitewide/flipbooks/img/movies/premiere_photos/w/wedding_crashers/53209764KV156_New_Line_Cine.jpg

[K'Nort]

Some parts of the country are definitely going to be more intolerant than others. Places that are all about appearances, like LA and NYC. And Portland is also a major example, because it's so fitness-crazed. There are continuums.

What could turn into a more serious issue than mockery is the health insurance angle. Now that the media is full of stories about "fat people are costing you money," that just can't end well. Some companies are already doing things like requiring mandatory gym attendance for employees over a certaing BMI, much like companies a few years back started firing people who refused to quit smoking. They can call it being fiscally responsible.

[nubly]

Unless of course the person in question is supported by their parents, spouse, children or other relatives, or they have some type of home-based employment. Many do. Some make a pretty good living, or live with someone who does.

Point being, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know the person's circumstances, so you are judging them in ignorance. That used to be called bigotry and prejudice. But I guess that's okay now.
of course i wasnt talking about every obese person out there. there are obese people that work.

Now, I do have to admit that the kind of abuse I've complained about happen a lot more and a lot more overtly here in La-La Land. LA is the land of silicone and sugar daddies, and anyone who doesn't look like a supermodel is held in open contempt. We are the shallowest and most superficial city on earth, and the things that are quite common here may not be normal in other places. So take my comments as a local phenomenon, but trust me, it really does happen. I've seen it.
same with vegas

[StoneGold]

See, the real questio