Sometimes People Just Piss Me Off

[Super Hero Guy]

Sorry to rant, but I am getting sick and tired of the homophobia in the area where I live. To be clear, I am a christian, and while I'm not exactly "pro-gay", I do believe everyone has the right to do what they want as long as it's not hurting anyone. And unfairly attacking people for their sexual preference is a horrible sin.

Like when a cousin of mine, a single woman in her thirties, complained that it would be easier for a gay couple to adopt a child then for her. Well, imagine that, they'd rather have the child go to a home with two stable parents to care for him, but because they're both men, it's monsterous.

And the other day, a Sihk co-worker of mine was saying that he hated gay men, but lesbian women were fine with him. He was not kidding when he said it. He meant it completely seriously. When someone else called him for being a hypocrite, he said there was nothing hypocritical about it.

Then someone else mentioned that he had a best friend growing up who ended up becoming a transvestite. He said he has "serious mental issues". And the other guy said, I am quoting exactly, "Ew, and you'd actually admit that!" Yeah, he should cover the shame that a friend of his turned out to be a crossdresser, what a sick bastard to be spreading that news around! Someone else, supposedly defending gays, just said, "Who cares if they like it up ass."

Sorry for ranting.

[nervmeister]

I hear ya man. This is the friggin United States of friggin America. If someone wants to be gay then let em be gay.

[Gilda Dent]

And the other day, a Sihk co-worker of mine was saying that he hated gay men, but lesbian women were fine with him. He was not kidding when he said it. He meant it completely seriously. When someone else called him for being a hypocrite, he said there was nothing hypocritical about it.

I think it comes from the perception that men occupy a higher status in society than women, particularly in the Sihk subculture. A woman who takes on masculine qualities is improving herself, while a man who takes on feminine qualities is degrading himself.

It's an expression of a subtle form of misogyny, a disdain for feminine qualities as being less than masculine ones.

Then someone else mentioned that he had a best friend growing up who ended up becoming a transvestite. He said he has "serious mental issues". And the other guy said, I am quoting exactly, "Ew, and you'd actually admit that!" Yeah, he should cover the shame that a friend of his turned out to be a crossdresser, what a sick bastard to be spreading that news around! Someone else, supposedly defending gays, just said, "Who cares if they like it up ass."

Sorry for ranting.

I know you weren't the one saying this, but I did want to point out that cross-dressing hasn't been classified as a mental illness in decades. The source of such feelings is very similar to the motivation I describe above. Women who wear "male" clothes are just wearing everyday fare. Take a look at this woman:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/GirlyGeek/0158.jpg

She's wearing male style slacks, belt, shirt, even a male style wrist watch. Yet she's not going to stand out pretty much anywhere in the us, nor is anyone going to think less of her for the most part because of how she's dressed. True, she's wearing a camisole style t-shirt under the oxford, and carrying a purse, which gives her feminine qualities to hook into. But if a man goes out in a dress, or a frilly top, no matter what male clothing items he was wearing, it would be seen as a little off, a little out of place. This is because any feminine qualities are seen as being definitive, again, a subtle form of misogyny.

Why is this? It comes back to the feminine being less valued in our society than the masculine. A man taking on feminine qualities is lowering himself, becoming a joke.

Gilda

[BlairH]

Homophobia is just f*cking gay!
So what shall we call him? "Thomas the bigot"? or "Thomas the civil liberties absolutist"?

[Charles RB]

Take a look at this woman:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/GirlyGeek/0158.jpg

She's allowed herself to be outflanked by pigeons, the fool. She's doomed now, just like Nelson's Column.

[BlairH]

She's allowed herself to be outflanked by pigeons, the fool. She's doomed now, just like Nelson's Column.

It's not so much the flanking. The pigeon commander's forces appear to be deployed in depth. This gives the pigeon commander added flexibility: A fast, mobile reserve of pigeon fecal matter can be almost instantly be deployed where necessary.

[Rosie]

:/

I'm a transsexual.

[Charles RB]

:/

I'm a transsexual.

Wait, you mean you've had an op or that you're transgender? I wouldn't have thought you'd have got the op done when still a student.

[Jeff Brady]

:/

I'm a transsexual.

That explains many, many things.

[Gilda Dent]

Wait, you mean you've had an op or that you're transgender? I wouldn't have thought you'd have got the op done when still a student.

Operative status is irrelevant. A transsexual is a person who seeks sexual reassignment, which doesn't necessarily always entail sexual reassignment surgery (SRS). Someone who hasn't yet had the surgery is simply a pre-op or, in some cases, non-op transsexual.

The standards of care allow for any adult who has lived as their target sex for at least a year and undergone therapy for a minimum amount of time to have SRS, meaning that it's actually possible to have the surgery as young as 18 or 19, though that is rare due to the costs involved.

I think the stuff I posted about intolerance of cross-dressing and male homosexuality applies equally to MTF transsexuals; lack of societal acceptance is essentially a subtle form of misogyny.

Rosie: If you need anything or just someone to listen, you can PM me. There are some really good resources available on the net and I can send you some links.

Gilda

[Charles RB]

So what's the diff between transsexual and transgender then?

[Rosie]

Wait, you mean you've had an op or that you're transgender? I wouldn't have thought you'd have got the op done when still a student.

You don't have to op to be a transsexual. Technically, going by the actual definition of transsexual, you're mostly only a transsexual before the OP, as after it you're scientifically a female who "Used" to be a man(and obviously tends to have some left overs).

I probably said that the last acceptable prejudice was against fat people;

I lied. It's transsexuals. It really is a sucky, horrible life. Especially when you're overweight on top of it, though most transsexuals have to be meaty to cover up bone structure; HRT redistributes the fat to do this.

Transgender is an umbrella term for everything to crossdresser to someone so bad they comitted suicide because of extreme gender dysphoria(which happens a lot, the rate for attempted suicide is nearly 30%,a nd the actual suicide ratef or transsexuals almost 5 times that of a normal person).

[Gilda Dent]

So what's the diff between transsexual and transgender then?

A transsexual is a person who believes she was born the wrong sex, and seeks reassignment through medical, surgical, therapeutic, and other means so that she can live as the sex she feels she is inside. I'm referring to MTF transexuals here; MTF's are about three times as common as FTM, but the same basic principals apply.

Transgender is a catchall word that describes any person who operates outside of gender norms, which would include transvestites and drag queens. The difference is that most transvestites are straight men, and drag queens tend to be gay men, but in either case they believe themselves to be men, are happy with that status, and don't seek to change it. They just like wearing women's clothes.

A transsexual believes herself to be female inside, and wants to change her body and social role to match that.

Transgender is about mode of expression, while transsexual is about internal psychological identity.

Gilda

[Rosie]

A transsexual is a person who believes she was born the wrong sex, and seeks reassignment through medical, surgical, therapeutic, and other means so that she can live as the sex she feels she is inside. I'm referring to MTF transexuals here; MTF's are about three times as common as FTM, but the same basic principals apply.

Transgender is a catchall word that describes any person who operates outside of gender norms, which would include transvestites and drag queens. The difference is that most transvestites are straight men, and drag queens tend to be gay men, but in either case they believe themselves to be men, are happy with that status, and don't seek to change it. They just like wearing women's clothes.

A transsexual believes herself to be female inside, and wants to change her body and social role to match that.

Transgender is about mode of expression, while transsexual is about internal psychological identity.

Gilda


Thank you...

[Gumbo Maximillian]

I think it comes from the perception that men occupy a higher status in society than women, particularly in the Sihk subculture. A woman who takes on masculine qualities is improving herself, while a man who takes on feminine qualities is degrading himself.

It's an expression of a subtle form of misogyny, a disdain for feminine qualities as being less than masculine ones.



I know you weren't the one saying this, but I did want to point out that cross-dressing hasn't been classified as a mental illness in decades. The source of such feelings is very similar to the motivation I describe above. Women who wear "male" clothes are just wearing everyday fare. Take a look at this woman:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/GirlyGeek/0158.jpg

She's wearing male style slacks, belt, shirt, even a male style wrist watch. Yet she's not going to stand out pretty much anywhere in the us, nor is anyone going to think less of her for the most part because of how she's dressed. True, she's wearing a camisole style t-shirt under the oxford, and carrying a purse, which gives her feminine qualities to hook into. But if a man goes out in a dress, or a frilly top, no matter what male clothing items he was wearing, it would be seen as a little off, a little out of place. This is because any feminine qualities are seen as being definitive, again, a subtle form of misogyny.

Why is this? It comes back to the feminine being less valued in our society than the masculine. A man taking on feminine qualities is lowering himself, becoming a joke.

Gilda


Part of it probably has to do with social values; men are trained to be indepent and aggressive, women to be submissive and dependent.

If you think about it; a dress plays off that, it can't be easy to run in them and they allow for easy access for rape.

For thousands of years; cultures around the world have been set up as a subtle(sometimes not so subtle) form of gender enslavement/domination. Its why women had to fight like hell to get rights and be recognized as equals.

I maybe wrong but in the marriage oath isn't it only the women who makes the pledge to "obey"?

It can even be seen in the kinds of mates they choose, men are looking for breeders, not providers so they worry more about looks and less about personality, women are looking for people to support them so they worry less about looks and more about capability in the work place and relatability with the man.

[SOGG]

And the other day, a Sihk co-worker of mine was saying that he hated gay men, but lesbian women were fine with him. He was not kidding when he said it. He meant it completely seriously. When someone else called him for being a hypocrite, he said there was nothing hypocritical about it.
<snipped for space>


You could tell him about the fifth (or fourth, I forget) Sikh Guru -- Guru Amar Das who vigorously preached for the equality of women. And oh, hey! What do you know, it's actually in the Guru Granth Sahib.

The following are his contributions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Amar_Das)

[Gilda Dent]

Part of it probably has to do with social values; men are trained to be indepent and aggressive, women to be submissive and dependent.

Yep.

If you think about it; a dress plays off that, it can't be easy to run in them and they allow for easy access for rape.

It depends on the dress, but generally, yeah. High heels serve the same function.

I maybe wrong but in the marriage oath isn't it only the women who makes the pledge to "obey"?

While I personally wouldn't have had a problem with that one--I do that anyway :)--it's not a part of the standard vows anymore. Both generally say "cherish" nowadays, and think that's been the standard for a couple of decades at least. I know it's an issue in I Will Fear No Evil, which ws written in the 60's.

Gilda

[nubly]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/GirlyGeek/0158.jpg


your wife is so gorgeous

[Dan Apodaca]

your wife is so gorgeous

Always classin' it up.