Voodoo vs. Wicca

[nervmeister]

Just for fun. Let's debate these two profound yet misunderstood practices. So which one in reality proves to be more useful in one's life? Which has more appeal among the masses?

[Solaris]

That's an odd, and interesting, question.

I don't know a whole lot about Voudouin, other than that it involves spirits, and wise men dealing with loas.

I know a bit more about Wicca, and can say that I think it can be pretty useful in everyday life, in that it promotes a viewpoint toward things like being positive, being responsible, taking care of our environment, etc.

[Shellhead]

That's an odd, and interesting, question.

I don't know a whole lot about Voudouin, other than that it involves spirits, and wise men dealing with loas.

I know a bit more about Wicca, and can say that I think it can be pretty useful in everyday life, in that it promotes a viewpoint toward things like being positive, being responsible, taking care of our environment, etc.

I know more about Voodoo than Wicca, but it sounds like Wicca is more useful if it promotes a positive and responsible attitude. I'm impressed that some devout believers in voodoo have been literally scared to death because of the intensity of their fear of certain symbolic threats, but that makes personal belief in voodoo a dangerous choice.

[Converge]

They are both equally useful.

Voodoo is more about sympathetic magic (sorcery) and psychodrama.

Whereas Wicca is a religion that promotes dualism with an emphasis on goddess worship. The magic practiced is more along the lines of "faux folk magic."

It's really kind of hard to tell which is more useful. If you want someone to put a curse on your boss, go to a Voodoun. If you want someone to try and heal your warts, go to a Wiccan.

I think the better question is, "Which is cooler?"

And I think Voodoo is the clear winner.

Why don't we throw Chaos Magic into the fray?

[nervmeister]

Since i don't know too much about Wicca, I'm wondering, does Wicca put an emphasis on mental state like Voodoo does?

[Converge]

Since i don't know too much about Wicca, I'm wondering, does Wicca put an emphasis on mental state like Voodoo does?

Not so much, no. Ritual is important, but the rituals done by Wiccans are far, far less intense than the ones in Voodoo, for the most part, in general.

edit: It also depends on the Wiccan mostly. If it's your average run-of-the-mill Barnes & Nobles New Ager then psychodrama probably won't be much of a factor. But Wicca does have deeper and more occult roots and some of it can be pretty intense.

[crystalline green]

Hard to debate the relative usefulness of two subjects that most know precious little about. Voudoun has been much maligned and ridiculed -- largely because its roots are African and because it was instrumental in unifying Haitian slaves to overthrow their masters. Most people's ideas about "Voodoo" come from sensationalized depictions in Hollywood movies. In the real world its much less about cursing, zombies, and sticking pins in poppets (a practice that actually has its roots in european witchcraft and not in african as is universally assumed) and more about ancestor worship, ecstatic ritual, herbalism, and is very life-affirming. Being a product of the African Diaspora, it also as also broad and varied in its practice including such forms as Santeria and Candomble depending on the region where it is practiced.

Having said that, I think Wicca and Voudoun are equally "useful" as both are about respecting, understanding, and attuning onceself to natural forces, healing, and addressing the problems or issues of life. Both are oral traditions, but Wicca is more commercialized in the sense that you are likely to find truckloads of books (some useful and many ludicrous) on the subject, the worst of which (again thanx to the influence of Hollywood), is marketed to preteen girls. Voudoun differs from Witchcraft largely in the sense that it is more oriented towards working with the spirit world (ancestors, spirits of natural forces, and spirits of the dead) and traditionally involves mediumistic experiences (being ridden or "possessed" by the Loa in a ritual setting).

[PatrickG]

Why don't we throw Chaos Magic into the fray?

Voodoo occasionally deals with real poisons, doesn't it? As in deadly chemicals used to poison social outsiders in the community? No thanks.

Wicca... I'm more okay with. Even if most of the Wiccans I've met have some crazy ass irrational fear of me.

I think it's partly because they're so "rules based" and I'm like, "Hey! I want to adapt the major arcana into playing cards and market magickal poker!"

I really do believe that where our universe is concerned, limitations, barriers and natural laws were meant to be challenged (sometimes whimsically) in the name of progress. Gravity, IMO, is a force which begs to be defied.

So when people like Wiccans or Neo-Pagans go around suggesting that the universe has all these rules, my instinct is to start suggesting ways to break them, bend them or profit by them.

I also find that many so-called Wiccans are really more about protesting Christianity or finding a non-dogmatic religion. The ones I've met are often very disorganized compared to the hermetic magickal orders that I've had a passing scholarly interest in.

Chaos Magick? Eh. I'd say "buyer beware". It's probably the best of these groups in terms of highly motivated, progressive living from a philosophical standpoint, IMO. I would just advise to tread cautiously or else you'll lose touch with reality.

[Converge]

So when people like Wiccans or Neo-Pagans go around suggesting that the universe has all these rules, my instinct is to start suggesting ways to break them, bend them or profit by them.

Care to expand? I think neo-Paganism is less "rules-based" than most major religions.

And I don't understand why a Wiccan would be offended by you using the major arcana in playing cards. It's not like tarot is sacred to Wicca or anything. And tarot cards are essentially playing cards. Take out the major arcana and the pages and you have a standard playing card deck. Adding the major arcana to a playing card deck would just turn the playing card deck into a tarot deck. And "magickal power" is already marketed. Just check out the New Age section at Barnes & Nobles.

[StoneGold]

I think the better question is, "Which is cooler?"

And I think Voodoo is the clear winner.


Well duh.

http://jamesbond007.net/seconds/Baron.jpg

[nervmeister]

A tragic stereotype, yet you make a good point, Stonegold. Voodoo (Vodun) perhaps has more appeal overall in American movie culture than Wicca Does. (Child's Play, Serpent and The Rainbow, and of course The Skeleton Key)

Goth culture however, may be a bit more partial to Wicca than to Voodoo.

[Erkoban]

Wicca is for teenaged girls.

Charmed killed Wicca, seriously. Charmed and all its spin offs and rip offs killed Wicca. The Craft was just the first nail in the coffin, Charmed hamered in all the remaining nails then pissed on it and slaughtered three chickens and a pig on the thing.

Voodoo was a fashion victim once too, with outrageous people parading through the streets pretending to be Boy George.

Voodoo still hasn't fully recovered.

[Converge]

A tragic stereotype.

Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Samedi

A lot of people think Voodoo is nothing like how it is depicted in the movies. When in actuality there is a lot of truth to much of it.

[nervmeister]

Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Samedi

A lot of people think Voodoo is nothing like how it is depicted in the movies. When in actuality there is a lot of truth to much of it.Well, evil Vodun (black magic) is a real practice and it's performed by sorcerors called bokur. However, it tends to be exaggerated in cinema.

[StoneGold]

Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Samedi

A lot of people think Voodoo is nothing like how it is depicted in the movies. When in actuality there is a lot of truth to much of it.
Well, not the raising people from the dead to walk the earth as zombies bit. But yeah, I've seen enough documenaries or whatever on the religion to know there's some crazy stuff in it. And OK, it may not be specifically the dude from the old 7-Up commercials as Samedi, but it's a real thing.

[Converge]

Well, evil Vodun (black magic) is a real practice and it is performed by sorcerors called bokur.

It's actually not evil. That's a stereotype. It can be used to hurt people, but it's not evil in and of itself.

[nervmeister]

It's actually not evil. That's a stereotype. It can be used to hurt people, but it's not evil in and of itself.My mistake. I meant to say maiming Vodun. :D

[PatrickG]

Care to expand? I think neo-Paganism is less "rules-based" than most major religions.

And I don't understand why a Wiccan would be offended by you using the major arcana in playing cards. It's not like tarot is sacred to Wicca or anything. And tarot cards are essentially playing cards. Take out the major arcana and the pages and you have a standard playing card deck. Adding the major arcana to a playing card deck would just turn the playing card deck into a tarot deck. And "magickal power" is already marketed. Just check out the New Age section at Barnes & Nobles.

Well, minus the pages too.

And a lot of card games use aces a bit like the "Fool" from the Major Arcana, keeping some of the thematic ideals intact. Blackjack for instance.

And I think I've probably offended/frightened some neo-Pagans/Wiccans with my belief that systems are made to be exploited. They generally favor maintaining the natural balance.

I'm all like, "Obliterate reality. If I could open portals or talk to spirits, I'd totally fight to imbalance nature, order and consistancy." Then again the people I've encountered tend to be D&D players and goths who believe they're preserving the natural order/fighting for stability.

And I'm all like, "I hate nature and love artiface. if the world really could be turned inside out, I'd want ringside seats. Revolution! Chaos! Anarchy! Reebok! Platypus! Polkadot! Mayhem!"

[Alex]

I go with the one that lets me poke someone's eye out using a doll, and lets me make zombies.

[Converge]

If the world really could be turned inside out, I'd want ringside seats.

Sounds like Grant Morrison.

[nervmeister]

I go with the one that lets me poke someone's eye out using a doll, and lets me make zombies.What about the one that allows you to make Mcguyver-esque cures from scratch?