Twilight of the superheroes

[jadegiant77]

I downloaded Moore's script for this a few years ago off the net: since then, DC has forced all the sites that posted the script to take it down. Why did they do that? Do they possibly have plans to turn this brilliant synopsis into an actual comic?

[Ontir]

They did that - twice. The first time, it was called Watchmen. The second it was called Kindgom Come.

DC's been very litigious over the last few years, going after fan-films and such. It doesn't surprise me that they'd go after this, as well. I wonder if it's still accessible via the new Library at Alexandria, or whatever that project's become now.

[Be Stiff]

Do you still have a copy of the script or was it only just that outline? It's pretty amazing stuff, if a bit too dark at times.

I didn't know the springboard made it into a script.

[pauwoo]

They did that - twice. The first time, it was called Watchmen. The second it was called Kindgom Come.

DC's been very litigious over the last few years, going after fan-films and such. It doesn't surprise me that they'd go after this, as well. I wonder if it's still accessible via the new Library at Alexandria, or whatever that project's become now.


Twilight was written after watchmen was completed.

Kingdom come is used twilight as one of it's many influencies.

[Ontir]

The Twilight that I'm referring to, was a proposal the Alan Moore wrote for DC, as a follow up to Crisis on Infinite Earths, and shouldn't be confused with a mini-series of the same name, that DC eventually did publish, which was co-produced by Howard Chaykin. DC opted not to go with this proposal within the DCU proper, I think the incest of the Shazam Family may have had something to do with it. Instead, it was re-worked as a distinct group of characters who had no relation to Superman et al. Years later, many of the elements of the original proposal were presented in Kingdom Come.

I once had a download of the treatment, to my knowledge there never was a full Moore written script, but it was sadly lost between the death of a harddrive, and corrupted floppies!

[Apathy Boy]

I downloaded Moore's script for this a few years ago off the net: since then, DC has forced all the sites that posted the script to take it down. Why did they do that?I'm no lawyer, but isn't that proposal the intellectual property of DC? In other words, DC legally owns that proposal and anyone who posts it on-line without DC's permission is committing piracy.

I believe DC's claim of ownership of the proposal is one of the many, many reasons Alan Moore is peeved with the company.

I can't believe DC's created such a hoo-haw over a project that'll never see the light of day. (And thankfully so; from what I've heard of the project, I can't say that I'd have much interest in the story, especially if KINGDOM COME is any indication of what it would've been like.)

[jadegiant77]

The Twilight that I'm referring to, was a proposal the Alan Moore wrote for DC, as a follow up to Crisis on Infinite Earths, and shouldn't be confused with a mini-series of the same name, that DC eventually did publish, which was co-produced by Howard Chaykin.

What was that one about? I never heard of that one. Oh, and I meant I had a copy of the treatment, not the actual script. My bad. I really didn't have aproblem with Captain Marvel schtupping(sp) his sister:royals often intermarry to keep the bloodlines pure.

[Sean Whitmore]

The Twilight that I'm referring to, was a proposal the Alan Moore wrote for DC, as a follow up to Crisis on Infinite Earths,


I read that treatement ages ago, and Moore made several mentions in it comparing it to Watchmen (in terms of length and advertising). So even that treatment was written after Watchmen.


SEAN

[davids]

This is one of the two most powerful clans, and it dominates the eastern seaboard around New York and environs. Alternatively, if I change my mind it could be outside America altogether and set in the Arctic Circle, based around a new Fortress of Solitude. This is because the House of Steel consists of the clan founded by Superman--we have Superman himself, a morally troubled figure who doesn't know what's best to do about the chaos he sees surrounding him, but who has come to accept that the Houses provide the only real permanent structure in a destabilizing world and are thus important to maintain. Superman has married and raised a couple of kids, and the person that he has married is Wonder Woman, who has had an identity change to Superwoman to accommodate her new stature--we see the genuine and powerful love between these two in the face of the perils of the world surrounding them and the desire to do what's best. They are also troubled by their two offspring--one of these is a new Superboy, and he's about eighteen when the story opens, and he's real bad news. The other child is a less delinquent Supergirl, a new one who, like Superboy, has been born of the union between Superman and Wonder Woman but who is much kinder and gentler, more her mother's child. Having three members in the Superman class and Wonder Woman (Superwoman) herself, they are obviously a clan to be reckoned with.

[kossori]

I printed it out a while back and it's neatly tucked away in my Alan Moore collection.

[TheOnlyXTremeFan]

Anyone care to post it, as a nice little Christmas gift?

[kossori]

...teach a man to fish...
Try this. (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Twilight+of+the+superheroes%22&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8)

[dancj]

...teach a man to fish...
Try this. (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Twilight+of+the+superheroes%22&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8)

Or this (http://www.rocketshop.holowww.com/twilight/gallery.htm)

[Pól Rua]

What was that one about? I never heard of that one. Oh, and I meant I had a copy of the treatment, not the actual script. My bad. I really didn't have aproblem with Captain Marvel schtupping(sp) his sister:royals often intermarry to keep the bloodlines pure.

Postmodern thing with a whole bunch of DC's Silver Age Space Heroes (The Star Rovers, Tommy Tomorrow etc...). Written by Howard Chaykin with art by Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez.

Oh, and the whole Marvel Family incest thing was first suggested in Robert Meyers' satirical novel 'Super Folks'.

[Ontir]

I read that treatement ages ago, and Moore made several mentions in it comparing it to Watchmen (in terms of length and advertising). So even that treatment was written after Watchmen.


SEAN

I read an interview with Moore, in which he talked about Twilight as being the follow up cross-over event to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Further, in the treatment, he references using the intended post-Crisis "New Flash," the women whith light based powers, (She eventually saw publication to some extent, as a member of the Tangent Line.) who had been abandoned by DC, when they instead chose to make Wally West the new Flash, and give him his own book. Moore said something to the affect that "Twilight" would be an opportunity to show the new female Flash as a seasoned heroine, and give a possible end-point to the freshmen character that was, by that time, to have been launched.

Further, people at DC cited it, saying that it was something that Moore had written as an intended cross-over, but didn't fit the way they wanted it to, into continuity, so they chose instead to move it outside, and utilise it that way.

[ACS]

Oh, and the whole Marvel Family incest thing was first suggested in Robert Meyers' satirical novel 'Super Folks'.

Moore rips off Super Folks, Alex Ross rips off Moore. Geesis. Is anything original?

[daveageallen]

Moore rips off Super Folks, Alex Ross rips off Moore. Geesis. Is anything original?

the main writer of kingdom come. who was not alex ross has said that he read Twilight of the superheroes after finishing KC and was scared people would say he stole ideas because of how similar certain aspects were. but he did not even know about its existance untill after KC was published. so he stole nothing what so ever.

[ACS]

the main writer of kingdom come. who was not alex ross has said that he read Twilight of the superheroes after finishing KC and was scared people would say he stole ideas because of how similar certain aspects were. but he did not even know about its existance untill after KC was published. so he stole nothing what so ever.

<.< Alex Ross pitched the idea, and lifted liberally from the TOTS pitch. Mark Waid--whose name you...forgot?--reworked the script after DC teamed him with Ross. Ross and Waid are co-writers.

[Brother Justin Crowe]

It's worth noting a lot of the ideas of Twilight of the Superheroes appeared here:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090429122448/marvel_dc/images/thumb/f/f4/Superman_-_Distant_Fires_Vol_1_1.jpg/300px-Superman_-_Distant_Fires_Vol_1_1.jpg

[ACS]

It's worth noting a lot of the ideas of Twilight of the Superheroes appeared here:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090429122448/marvel_dc/images/thumb/f/f4/Superman_-_Distant_Fires_Vol_1_1.jpg/300px-Superman_-_Distant_Fires_Vol_1_1.jpg

I don't doubt it. Portions of the pitch also influenced Zero Hour. In fact, it's arguable that Moore essentially invented Hypertime, and DC just let someone else take credit. It's why I sometimes say DC let everyone but Moore write TOTS. Hell, even that collection of short stories by Deborah Eisenberg postdates the pitch by over a decade. (I know that book had nothing to be with comics, but that's part of why her using the title pisses me off.)

[daveageallen]

<.< Alex Ross pitched the idea, and lifted liberally from the TOTS pitch. Mark Waid--whose name you...forgot?--reworked the script after DC teamed him with Ross. Ross and Waid are co-writers.

you have proof that they stole the idea? because the only thing i have ever herd them say about it is they read alan moores pitch years later and were worried people would think they had ripped it off.

see, what your doing is pure speculation.

[daveageallen]

I don't doubt it. Portions of the pitch also influenced Zero Hour. In fact, it's arguable that Moore essentially invented Hypertime, and DC just let someone else take credit. It's why I sometimes say DC let everyone but Moore write TOTS. Hell, even that collection of short stories by Deborah Eisenberg postdates the pitch by over a decade. (I know that book had nothing to be with comics, but that's part of why her using the title pisses me off.)

i think they should just write it and put it out. its a great concept. and the fans should deserve to see it in print. they have the rights to it. i wanna see this as a comic. i wanna see hawkpeople in melted Gold from metal men armour fighting green lanterns.!

[Paul Newell]

and the fans should deserve to see it in print. they have the rights to it.
What rights exactly?

[daveageallen]

What rights exactly?

dc owns alan moores pitch . they keep it on file, that is what mark waid said when he claims he read it the dc office.

unless alan moore copyrighted it, which wouldnt work since its with dc's copywritten characters. and since alan moore was under a contract with them at the time, one where only writes for them, then dc can do whatever they want with it. they could use that pitch and make it into a book.

even though fans would throw a fit, and alan moore would never let it go(does he ever let anything..?) i would love to see it in print.

[Paul Newell]

Ah, sorry, I thought you said the Fans had rights to it. My mistake.