Okay, So You're In Charge Of Comics

[Gail Simone]

I was reading another board, where it seemed everyone there had an idea of how to make comics' sales expand hugely.

So I'm askin'...if you have ideas that would 'save' comics and raise circulation substantially.

Now, I do want to say, I think the picture is a bit rosier than it's been in a while, at least at the bigger companies. I'm hopeful that this means more comics stores, or at least more stable stores, which can be very good for the smaller companies as well.

Here's all I ask. If you have an idea, I'd like you to think it through. Talk about the negatives and positives a bit.

For example, it's not enough to say, "I'd lower the prices." How would you do that? What do you think the effect would be? Has it worked in the past?

That sort of thing. There have certainly been times when crap talent was being used on even some of the 'icon' books at DC and Marvel, but I think that's not the factor it's been in the past. But maybe I'm wrong.


Let's hear it. How would you 'save' comics?

Gail

[matterconsumer]

I don't agree that comics need to be 'saved'. But in the spirit of the post I'll begin with a very unpopular suggestion.

Reduce the number of titles. Hundreds of titles are published monthly and it's little wonder that per title numbers are low. In an industry of thirty monthly titles circulation per title would increase. Readers wouldn't be too happy though :)

[thehod]

Move away from monthly issues, and produce bigger titles less often. A 132 pages for £10 is better than 6 x 22pages for £2 each.

Plus, most stories read much better when in collected form anyway.

[the4thpip]

Find out what political candidates in your constituency openly endorse comicbooks. Campaign for them, vote them into office.

This will lead to a wave of public awareness comics, warning of drugs, landmines and Stalinism, or selling war bonds. Those will be in every school and army base, and that will give us a new generation of fans.

Unlike those special Superman editions during WWII, I don't think the dialog needs to be "simplified" for soldiers anymore, though.

[El Santo]

Larger, less frequent books (basically moving to something more like a manga digest or TPB format) is definitely tempting, but we can run into the problem of "out of sight, out of mind". If I was going to move to that sort of format, I'd probably also publish in shorter volumes as well, but distribute them via the Internet, perhaps through a subscription service. The reader gets their stories, then (in theory) purchases the books in collected form if they really like it.

But honestly, I don't like that idea, because I like brick and mortar comic shops.


What I would probably do, really, is concentrate most of my attention on penetration of the adult market. They have more money than little kids, and honestly...the war against manga is an uphill battle. It'll have to be fought with newer characters and a different approach to storytelling. Meanwhile, there is a whole group of people interested in what American comics have to offer. I'd take chances on mature titles, and I don't mean "we have gigantic titties" mature. Political discourse, weird philosophy, good 'ol fashioned action/adventure...I'd start marketing them directly to people with those interests, rather than just to comics fans.

As for the kids? Well, I'd make some of my editors sit down and read a bunch of manga. Then I'd ask them why little kids like them so much. Anyone without an answer gets transferred to my mature line. If nobody could answer...honestly...I'd just license some manga from Japan. I might experiment with trying to integrate manga concepts into a more traditional comic book world (not as hard as it sounds; a lot of recent anime/manga resemble American comics concepts).

My explanation for why kids like manga? Because it's written for kids. The pacing of most modern American comics is made with older readers in mind. Fight scenes are shorter, the stories are more complex, and deal with themes that are of greater interest to adults than most teens and pre-teens. Manga fights are typically longer, feature more give-and-take, and the fights tell part of the story as well. Combat dialogue is important in manga, and the dialogue will appeal to emotion ("I will never forgive you!"). The stories, while often having a huge cast of characters, are of a relatively simple nature: a dorky guy with no girls suddenly becomes the object of attraction for a wide variety of strange, special, or powerful girls who disrupt his everyday routine; A team of friends and/or rivals must travel together in search of self-improvement, and usually an object of some importance; etc. Manga delivers stories that don't "talk down" to kids the way American kids programming does (they have continuity that stretches back for years), but remains simple and child-oriented enough that a majority of pre-teens can still identify with it. There is no artificial complexity added via convoluted continuity with other titles, or retcons, or changing creative teams. That's why manga succeeds with kids.

Having said that, don't turn American comics into manga. The "shared universe" concept is what makes American comics special; it's something we have that manga doesn't. But we can adapt certain parts of what makes manga popular into our kids products. You're not going to sell America's 12 year olds on "Crisis on Infinite Earths". But a concept like Exiles could definitely work, if pitched in a book aimed at younger audiences.

[superlurker]

Move towards turning it into a digital format, by offering some titles online. Comic stores and distributors will probably not like that very much, but it would be a consumer-friendly move, and would allow the industry to sell such issues at a significantly lower price.

In the long run, the real 'problem' that comics are facing is that the resources to tell those stories in alternate formats are becoming increasingly cheaper and easier to access. In the not-too distant future, it'll probably be possible for a creator to make animation movies that look completely real without needing the budget of a Hollywood blockbuster. Which will probably be a preferrable format for most people, for the kind of stories that comics traditionally tell.

[Venoman]

keep comics fan based... dont attempt to make them so accesible to the world, once you do that more and more titles come streaming out. Less titles is a good idea, its too confusing to keep track os so many things. We need weekly comics of a main character.... keep the competitiveness between marvel and dc.... but dont make out that theyre so different.
Cheaper comics, if its weekly the stories dont need to be as lengthy which will mean it should cost less... no second volumes... stick to the original title volume 1!
Only have spin offs if the fans demand so.....more comic book production in more shops.
Oh yeah and cut the kid crap.... kids dont like comics anymore.. they watch tv and films and use the internet.

[Crinos]

Well the obvious answer would be to give Gail Simone a raise. A large one. :p

In all seriousness though, I'd actually start checking out message boards and seeing what the fans want see done on comics, then I'd give it to writers in the form of suggestions. I'd reinstate the laws of continutity, and TONE DOWN ON THE MOTHER FUCKING DARKNESS PEOPLE! ITS FUCKING DC NOT WHITE WOLF.

And that'd be that.

[Ian Boothby]

We need comics to be more like the representations of the same characters on TV, film and video games.
A person likes the Teen Titans tv show, Spider-Man film and the X-Men video games. We need to have comics that when this person picks them up it jives with what they've seen in the other medium.
Batman in the comics is nothing like Batman the Animated series or Batman Begins. The movie/TV show/ video game pitches the product to this new potential reader but if the product doesn't match the pitch or is too confusing then you've lost them.
Comics can't just be written by fans for fans. Storylines can't take half a year to resolve. The books have to have art and storylines with wider appeal.
Right now comics are very well written but well written in a way only a tiny market can comprehend. They're snobbish.
If you're doing superhero books, then use all the potential that world has. Don't give your hero a desk job and have them yap to co-workers for the majority of the issue. If you were doing a James Bond movie, you'd have to show an action scene within the first ten minutes. If you're doing a superhero book you need some heroics in it. And don't just have one plot twist you use for the cliffhanger.
Remember that someone else is going to use these toys after you so play nice with them, stop killing them when you don't have any ideas or need to add some conflict to your crossover and lay off the rape storylines.
Have fun. Big fun. Use all the paints in the paintbox.

[the4thpip]

penetration of the adult market.

Heh.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Venoman]

ian boothby... different rules apply to comics than cartoons and films. Really what we need to do is go back to how they did it in the silver age. Just alot less corny dialogue and origin theories. A more believable silver age is what we need.

[Alex Dragon]

Personally, I think comics are fine the way they are. Right now they're doing well enough that I don't see them going away anytime soon and yet not doing so well that there's still a level of competition between the larger companies that results in them trying outdo each other resulting in some interesting and exciting stuff. Comics are also being done in a way that is attracting major writers from different fields who are actual fans. That's a good thing.
However, when comics become successful and start to make money that's when when creators and people start doing stuff just to make money and they tend to stop taking chances and play it safe. Marvel is going through this to an extent right now. When they where trying to bounce back from bankruptcy they were far more experimental and willing to take chances. Now they tend to play it safe.
If you look back at recent history the times comics were selling the best was the times they were of the poorist quality. Also I think to keep the religious right off their backs and to appeal to the largest audience a major watering down of stories and content would happen. I don't see any good things resulting from a major increased sales. If fact I brought this up in a thread months ago and no one was able to change my mind about it. It would be great for creators but I wasn't convinced it would be such a good thing readers.

But...If I had to come up with a way to increase comics visiblity and sales it would be long process but could be done.

Comics biggest problem is perception. Most people simply think comics are a nerdy, juvenile, geek pastime. All the other stuff people name as problems like price, too many superheroes, and not having them in more outlets aren't really as big a problems as some people think. I think most people are aware that comics exist and even know where to get them but really have no interest in them.
You've got to actually trick people into reading them and getting used to the format. To do this you have to introduce comics into the books/magazines they already read. This way you're targeting people who actually read and you're giving them subjects they're already interested in. Once they're used to reading those it's easy to expand on that and collect those stories they've read and hopefully enjoyed and introduce them to new stories and simliar books.

Take some comics best writers and team them up with a good strong easy to follow artist (there's plenty looking for work) and have them do a 4 to 5 page comic in various magazines. SPORTS ILLUSTRATED would have a on going story involving sports figures. PLAYBOY would have the sexy adventures of some busty playmate. Wrestling mags would have the adventures of wrestlers. Women mags would feature some sort of romance, advice feature in comics form, soap opera, or whatever fits that particular mag. Gun mags would feature some Rambo type having adventures and showing various weapons in use. Each comic would be a reflection of that magazine.
After a year or so of that make a trade of those stories available by putting it in bookstores or buy sending off for it. Make sure you keep mentioning the fact that the trades are available.
Then you start to promote other trades from other mags as well. The guys reading the PLAYBOY stuff would probably be interested in the trades from FHM, STUFF, PENTHOUSE or other similar mags. The Women buying the trades from one women's mag would probably be interested in the trades from other women's mags. Etc., etc...

The same thing could happen with books. The Stephen King thing happening at Marvel is a great thing and could work with other books and writers. They don't need to actually write the books but simply oversee the books and suggest stories based on existing books or spinoff books and simply put a coupon for those comics/trades in their books for a discount on the comics/trades. Make them avalible in bookstores. With those books surrounded with similar books it's not a stretch to think they'd pick up similar stuff.

Slowly over time you'd have more people reading graphic form books and the comics format would become more accepted. Once that happens everything else would fall into place by itself. Companies would get an idea of what type of stories are in most demand and act accordingly.

By keeping the stories so spaced out (4 to 5 pages a month) it would allow major talent to work on them and do a great job with affecting their other work too much. That would give someone like Kurt Buisek a chance to do that series aimed at women he wanted to do. Perhaps Gail could flex her writing muscles on something other than superheroes. There are plenty of great artists who aren't really suited for superheroes or are seeking work or aren't fast enough for monthlies who would be great for this.

[Cam63]

Beer coupons ?

[Noah Johnson]

This may be an unpopular position, but... fire the traditionalists. Get everyone involved in keeping comics an insular, incestuous cult hobby consisting entirely of rearranging the same superhero pieces out. Hell, just make it a few years' sabbatical, but if you're not doing something not done before, take a walk.

This would have the side effect of drastically reducing the number of titles, but it would force several things. Comics would cease to be a geek cult and be forced to become, and be regarded as, an artform. A lot of dead wood, once pruned, wouldn't come back. And shelf space, funding, and audience attention span would be freed up for all the artists and writers who ARE doing innovative work but can't get noticed because Marvel's hyping yet another damn Spider-Man title.

Comics could stop being about superheroes and be about comics, and maybe some of those would be about superheroes. I hope so; I love superheroes. But first and foremost, they could become an artform instead of a hobby. If that means we'd have to suffer the loss of friggin' Matter-Eater Lad, I can live with that.

[TCJohnson]

One thing I would do is make some cheap comics for newstands and grocery stores. I would make it on cheaper paper, I would have less pages and make them smaller in size so that more of them can fit on the shelves. Hell, we can even make this black and white if I need to.

I would also scan comics to CDs and give them out for free. Put these CDs in game magazines or children's magazines or any magazines really. Choose a couple of series that got good reviews and critical acclaim but did not sell well...things that are not schedule to be put into trades. And then give them out for free. Do what AOL does, and just mail the suckers out. If nothing else people are getting free coffee mug coasters with comic book super heroes on them. When there are comic book movies in the theaters, give them out free with a purchase of large drink and popcorn. HAve burger king give them out.

The point is, just get comic books out there for people to see what is in them.

[Charles RB]

I'd focus on getting more people into comic stores to buy comics. Bookstores and Amazon and the local newsagents are great and all, but comic stores are the stores that specialise in comics. Ideally, they are going to be selling (and the direct market supporting) comics that aren't going to be entering bookstores and newsagents any time soon- ones by smaller companies, or ones that have appeal but not to a bulky mainstream audience. Also comic stores have been keeping the industry going for decades, so casting them aside? That's not cool.

So, instead of spending all our time and money on massive nationwide media campaigns, we spend time and money working with comic stores to promote whatever comic we want promoted to that store's neighbourhood and point out that store as the best place to buy it. Advertising is done on a local level to focus on titles & the local comic stores, promotional events are done in stores (signings, launch parties, etc) to attract attention to them, comic companies promote random comic stores in their titles and on their websites, and we pay attention to what helps the stores sell their comics (like not having too many titles starring the same character shipping in the same week).

And we'd certainly do this with new kids comic and comics we think would have mainstream appeal (like, say, The Dark Tower comics). Once you get new readers into comic stores, you get the chance to get them buying more comics.

Getting into comics into bookstores and newsagents should still be done, but let's stop viewing comic stores as some horrible thing we need to escape from and see it as something we can use.

[PatrickG]

Comics could stop being about superheroes and be about comics, and maybe some of those would be about superheroes. I hope so; I love superheroes. But first and foremost, they could become an artform instead of a hobby. If that means we'd have to suffer the loss of friggin' Matter-Eater Lad, I can live with that.

I couldn't. I'd rather lose the readers who could stand to lose Matter-Eater Lad, give Tenzil Kem an anime look and get a new generation of matter-eater fans in every two to four years.

My attitude is... Comics, the super-hero kind, are a playground. If you can appreciate the playground and let the kids have most of the fun, you can keep coming back. The playground doesn't need radical change. It just needs a fresh coat of paint and some inspired thought pumped into it to keep it fresh and vital.

But if you drop your pants, announce that the playground is yours and load the place up with hookers, you need to be escorted away and kindly told to stay away from the playground. And that's whether you're a fan or a creator.

There are other playgrounds out there for that kind of behavior but mainstream super-hero comics are not an adult medium for storytelling. Super-hero comics can be very sophisticated, clever and enjoyable but the minute they aren't something a particularly bright 15 year-old might enjoy, they're self-destructive.

Not saying people who want mature readers stories can't read comics or even super-hero comics. But if you really want "mature readers" stories and can't accept something on the level of JLU of TEEN TITANS as being mature enough then keep your damn, dirty paws off DC and Marvel's mainstream universes.

That goes for fans and creators. And I think if we could lay these ground rules, get editors who believe in these ground rules and escort the creepy guys with their pants around their ankles off the playground, we would have a start.

The next step would be to make comic shops a small part of the overall distribution plan.

[Converge]

Super-hero comics can be very sophisticated, clever and enjoyable but the minute they aren't something a particularly bright 15 year-old might enjoy, they're self-destructive.


I can't think of any comics out right now that a bright 15-year-old wouldn't enjoy. Considering that 15-year-old is probably murdering hookers in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and surfing through internet porn sites, I really don't think there is anything in comics that will scare him away.

Edit: This is why I think the "save comics by making them more for kids" argument is counterproductive. I think comics' biggest competition is from video games and movies. And when video games like Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Devil May Cry, Mortal Kombat, Doom 3, Quake 4, etc. are big hits, it shows that kids WANT adult themes in the products they buy. And look at all the horror movies that are big these days. Hell, even manga and anime, comics closest competitor, has way more adult themes than the average mainstream comic. I think making comics more kid-friendly will not draw in more kids, it will only make happy the 40-year-olds who are nostalgic for the old days.

__________________________________________________ ______________

But to answer the original poster's question...

One word... synergy.

http://promontoryartists.org/lookingcloser/images/ingoodcompany-topher-synergy.jpg

[sixstringguild]

1. Distribute the monthlies online for $1.00 a piece so people can read them on their psp or whatever. Then several months later, sell the tpb in stores.
2. Set up stands/vending machines in theaters at the time of a big movie release (ex: push Batman comics during Batman Begins)
3. Push a major reading campaign where you send your kid friendly comics to schools in some kind of partnership.
4. Set up major displays at B&N, Borders, Waldenbooks, etc to show off your TPBs.
5. Cultivate at least one major toy line that is sold at stores like WalMart and Target, like Marvel Legends.
6. Put ads in Entertainment Weekly and mags like that. Maybe even Details, GQ, TeenBop or whatever...

[Charles RB]

1. Distribute the monthlies online for $1.00 a piece so people can read them on their psp or whatever.

Ooo, that's something else to do- an online pay-to-download service for comics, allowing cheap downloading of comics that are seminal, out of print, or recent ones we want to hype.

[Tink!]

For starters, I'd start making monthly ongoing comics again. And no, I think that, generally speaking, that is NOT being done today. What we have today are graphic novels published as several single issues, giving us decompressed, little-content comics that are truly better read as trades - but you won't get a kid to pick up a trade for $14.95. You might get a kid to pick up a single issue for three bucks, and when that happens, they have to: A. Feel that they got their money's worth. B. Become interested enough in the character(s) to want to get the next issue... and possibly, or at least later on, previous issues.

Accomplishing the second goal involves more character-driven writing (instead of plot-driven), and bringing back continuity and slowly evolving subplots.

Only after that's done, promotion amongst new readers (in any form) can begin.

[TCJohnson]

1. Distribute the monthlies online for $1.00 a piece so people can read them on their psp or whatever. Then several months later, sell the tpb in stores.

I have thought of that and the problem with this is how you stop people from copying them and giving them to their friends for free?

[sixstringguild]

I have thought of that and the problem with this is how you stop people from copying them and giving them to their friends for free?

Hopefully in the near future, there will be some encryption software made that can manage this. Maybe even treat it like Itunes. You can make X amount of copies for the .99 cents you paid. Maybe you could do that w/ online comics.

Actually, I would partner up w/ ITunes and sell them through it. Cross promote w/ movie soundtracks or tv shows that they will eventually sell through Itunes. Cross promote w/ the comic book/scifi podcasts. Actually maybe give the comics away for free online and have them paid for like an advertisement would be online...then sell the comics as tpbs. When someone buys something from Itunes or amazon, maybe they're emailed a link to read the latest issue of Batman or something...or Superman, if they bought a Superman dvd, video game, tshirt...

[Evan Waters]

I would experiment with 64-page titles. In DC, ACTION and DETECTIVE would be the candidates- use 22 pages or whatever for the Superman and Batman stories respectively, then have back-up stories featuring other characters, including those who don't have their own book. That'd be a good test arena for seeing what characters draw attention, which ones might sustain their own titles or make good super-team members. For Marvel I might use STRANGE TALES, AMAZING FANTASY, or somesuch. I think the prices for these could be more reasonable for the amount of material, and they'd look more attractive in supermarkets and such. Quarterlies and Annuals and the like would be good for the non-direct market as well, those can be magazine-sized. The implosion of direct-market shops in the mid-90s is something the industry is still suffering from- we should support those shops still existing, obviously, but we can't neglect the wider market.

I'd definitely aim more solidly at the 15-year-old and younger markets. The "kids" titles need more oomph behind them, get our best writers to do turns on them.

Get good talent to stick to titles whenever possible. Don't rotate for the sake of rotation.

Nip decompression in the bud, ditto "writing for the trade." We're putting out monthlies. We need to be writing for monthlies. You can have three- and four- parters and arcs and so on, but make sure any new reader can jump on at any issue and that enough will happen in that issue to hook them. If your approach is "this'll get going by issue 3", you're doing something wrong.

Writers and artists who are habitually late get bimonthly titles. There's no shame in it, it's something the industry once did and that the smaller publishers still do.

Finally, I would cut the number of titles for some of the A-list heroes. I honestly think it's spreading the market thin. If Batman were just in two solo books instead of six or whatever, then the fans who follow the character will concentrate on one or the other instead of some niche spin-off. This does narrow the range of what you can do- you can't have six separate visions of the character going at the same time- but it may force some decisions as to how to best handle these iconic figures.

[Alex Dragon]

I can't think of any comics out right now that a bright 15-year-old wouldn't enjoy. Considering that 15-year-old is probably murdering hookers in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and surfing through internet porn sites, I really don't think there is anything in comics that will scare him away.

Edit: This is why I think the "save comics by making them more for kids" argument is counterproductive. I think comics' biggest competition is from video games and movies. And when video games like Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Devil May Cry, Mortal Kombat, Doom 3, Quake 4, etc. are big hits, it shows that kids WANT adult themes in the products they buy. And look at all the horror movies that are big these days. Hell, even manga and anime, comics closest competitor, has way more adult themes than the average mainstream comic. I think making comics more kid-friendly will not draw in more kids, it will only make happy the 40-year-olds who are nostalgic for the old days.

Of all the posters who post here you seem to be the one I tend to agree with most on different topics. You don't seem to have the the nostalgic hangups most of the others do. Debating with people who's sole justification for doing things because "that's the way they were before" even when it's obvious things are different now gets tedious after awhile. Especailly when they refuse to acknowledge or can't see they're simply being nostalgic.

I say if you want to do comics kids will enjoy then do comics geared to different ages and go all out and do them well. This "one size fits all" type of thinking just makes for comics that tries to satisfy all but ends up not truly serving everyone.

If there's a audience for a more mature Superman there's no reason whatsoever why that audience needs to be denied. Make those type of comics and label them appropriately and don't tie them in with the Superman books that are aimed at young teens or 8 year olds. If a dad walks into a comic shop or book store it would be nice if he's a Superman fan he can have a Superman book geared to him and his son have a Superman book aimed to his sensibilites. If there's an even younger son he should have a Superman comic aimed for him too. If there's a wife she should have a Lois Lane/Superman comic aimed to her tastes. The Batman films serves a different audience than the animated cartoons. There should be comics that do the same thing. Just label them as such and there'd be no problems.

People keep complaining that some fans want their comics to age with them. I say stop complaining about them and give them what they want. Give everyone what they want then leave them alone. There's no good reason to limit the buyer's options. Every type of comic and age level is legit.

[PatrickG]

I have thought of that and the problem with this is how you stop people from copying them and giving them to their friends for free?

There is DVD playing software you can't grab screenshots from.

*I* could probably put something like this together. The question is if people would buy. And if DC and Marvel would get onboard since they have such strong ties to Diamond.

[Trey Krimsin]

I think comics should have more promotion. Place more advertising in magazines, maybe even on TV. Putting out movies based on comic characters just isn't enough, especially if the mainstream isn't familiar with a particular character.

One major problem I see with comics is when a comic is delayed until the next month or even later. From what I have seen in DC's schedule, the next issue of Superman/Batman won't be released until December. I assume Jeph Loeb has written the issue, so is Ed McGuinness to blame? Or maybe Loeb hasn't written the script yet? If the publishers put creators on a book that can work in a monthly time frame, it should help a popular book sell more copies.

[TheLyle]

I think the biggest problem for the industry is distribution. Comics are too hard to get:

1) Comic shops are specialty shops too often located in places where the comic shop is the only worthwhile destination, therefore drawing only comic buyers.

2) Many comic shops don't have the most appealling and enticing layout.

3) Diamond distributor is unreliable, often failing to ship product on the promised date. This is bad for retailers who lose business if their shipment is missing a hot book that customers will seek out at competitor stores and bad for consumers who don't know if the empty space on the shelf means that their store sold out (requiring visits to other shops) or that it wasn't in the shipment (requiring only a wait of one week).

In short, comics are too high maintenance a hobby.

Also, I see a challenge in continuity. It's too dense for new readers, off-putting to casual customers but very rewarding for the hardcore fanbase.

However, I like what Marvel has done in that respect, though I wonder how much of this is genuine smarts versus blind luck. Their digest books are an easy entry-point for new readers and don't chase away readers who don't want to feel like they have to read several other books to enjoy that one title. And yet, there's universe continuity to those titles that a hardcore fan would appreciate. It seems to be a product that can satisfy all audiences and even serve as a gateway to the more interlocked titles.

Then again, Marvel is a mess elsewhere. How many press releases do you have to read to know the difference between all those Fantastic Four titles? I though I was confused when I wandered into a comic shop and saw Legionnaires #1 (having previously been confused by happening into the store the month after L.E.G.I.O.N. #1 came out... not following comics at the time those were very confusing moments for a fan of the Levitz-era Legion.)

One other problem with continuity is that it differentiates a franchise too much. Teen Titans and Justice League should be titles that a fan of the animated series can pick up without much confusion. I'm not saying the two should match continuities, but both books should avoid heavy "universe" continiuty and try to be gateway books.


My solutions:
1) Anthology -- I've wanted to see a comics anthology magazine and I still haven't seen one done the way I envision it. I'd like to see some magazines with a unifying theme (Superman, Cartoon Network properties, Ultimates, etc) that are consistent (unlike Marvel's Ultimate Magazine) in comic content and have a significant presence in mainstream newsstands. I think that such a venture would have to be entered with a long-term loss anticipated. Considering their success, I'd probably look to Viz's manga magazines for a template.

2) Retailer co-op program -- I understand DC had a program where retailers could get back a percentage of the money they spent on DC books in the form of reimbursements for DC-supported promotions. I've always liked the idea of that, but I'd like to see it done differently. I'd like to make it a resource for guerilla marketing, with ad slicks (with partial reimbursement for using the ad slicks in ads from the co-op fund) discounted fliers (co-op fund pays for part of the printing cost) and event-driven promotional kits (with suggestions for local marketing, like making a deal with the nearest theatre when Superman Returns opens).

I think in the past, it's turned out that industry-wide promotions aren't effective because there are too many retailers who won't participate (see the Free Cow and Chicken Comic) so you've got to focus on making it easier for the retailers who will help promote themselves do it more effectively.

Also, I'd make sure the creative in these materials aren't generic as they have been in the past (see DC's "Essential 25" and yawn). Adapt house ads into a few formats that can be used by retailers and give them the tools to make a big push for the title that they think will work for them.

3) Trade program -- Seriously, trades need to be looked at and run better. They need to be treated like their own product and not additional comic merchandise. Stop judging the sales of a trade on the sales of the comic, don't start collecting something you're not gonna finish and try to maintain some kind of strategy in what goes in and out of print. Letting a trade go out of print is fine, publishers do that all the time, but if retailers can order BAM! vol 4 but not vol 2, that's a problem.

[TheLyle]

For starters, I'd start making monthly ongoing comics again. And no, I think that, generally speaking, that is NOT being done today. What we have today are graphic novels published as several single issues, giving us decompressed, little-content comics that are truly better read as trades - but you won't get a kid to pick up a trade for $14.95. You might get a kid to pick up a single issue for three bucks, and when that happens, they have to: A. Feel that they got their money's worth. B. Become interested enough in the character(s) to want to get the next issue... and possibly, or at least later on, previous issues.

However, you can get kids to spend $7-15 on a 185-ish page digest (or $5 on a 100 page anthology). That's why I think those Marvel digests are a good idea, they're just enough story for the money and in a convenient size, too.

BTW, hasn't Runaways vol 1 sold enough copies to rival Marvel's top monthlies? I swear I read a number that was north of 100K a few months ago.

[Venoman]

personally i dont think that we need to get more people into comics. All we need is less titles, more shops, cheaper comics, lengthier stories.
However if its more comic book readers you want, the best way to go about it is to make comics more accesible, make one book stories. the main problem with comics today is that you pick up any random title and it will make no sense at all. instead of being like films comics should be like tv series in that you can watch any episode and enjoy it and for the fans of the show you can get an overall idea of a large story. For example its possible to enjoy an episode of the sitcom friends without watching anyothers, and the fans of friends get the mian idea of one large story that follows throughout the series. But modern comics arnt like this, they are more like random scenes from a film that you just started watching from the middle. It can be very hard for newcomers to get into comics if theyve never read any before. In the silver age every 21 page comic provided atleast an hour of reading and althought the art quality wasnt so great the stories were thouroughly entertaining.

[Noah Johnson]

]
Not saying people who want mature readers stories can't read comics or even super-hero comics. But if you really want "mature readers" stories and can't accept something on the level of JLU of TEEN TITANS as being mature enough then keep your damn, dirty paws off DC and Marvel's mainstream universes.
See, that's the entire problem. When the issue is "What can be done to save/improve comics as an artform?" your reaction is "Preserve the mainstream DC and Marvel universes."

You must understand, from my perspective, those universes have nothing to do with comics apart from being printed in them. Preserving comics has as much to do with those damn trivia factories (which I do enjoy) as preserving the art of the novel has to do with keeping Middlemarch in print.

[PatrickG]

Well, that's not really my reaction.

My feeling is that the "more mature" stories that people want could be serviced better by more genres, more lines, more companies.

The DCU or Marvel Universe don't need to become more adult alongside the readership. They need to get more kids in.

Meanwhile, Icon, Image, vertigo, etc. should be there with more mature stories.

The comics industry is dangerously close to being like the porn industry. All kinds of stories with super-heroes shoe-horned in instead of sex being shoe-horned in. It's fetishism on the part of people who want more than super-hero stories but want the super-heroes TOO. The difference is that the "money shot" replaces nudity and sex with tights.

We might as well go ahead and introduce a super-hero who's a pizza delivery boy or a plumber.

I believe the industry right now is one where fans don't support non-super-hero books even though they WANT more than just super-heroes so they (along with creators who have stories to tell outside the super-hero genre) are pushing all the stories they WANT to see on super-heroes.

Thus we have (well-done but still somewhat pandering) super-hero books about police stations, espionage, relationships, horror, western-type stories. But the super-heroes get shoe-horned in to make the book marketable just like the porn industry takes standard plots and existing movie premises and redoes them with sex. There's a novelty to it but IMO it represents an inability to break out of the super-hero mold and allow super-heroes to be what they are while doing more books that are their own animal.

I'm not knocking the cross-genre stuff altogether and often enjoy it but it's sad that books like POWERS or GOTHAM CENTRAL will fly with fans but that there isn't really any strong corresponding support for, say, a comic book about a police station WITHOUT heroes.

And just watch when Marvel Zombies outsells Kirkman's Image zombie book five or six times over.

My point is that the current marketplace forces things to be tied to super-heroes, by and large, to survive. And that ALL genres get diminished if we never get super-heroes without a zombie/cop/espionage spin, never get zombies without a super-hero/cop/espionage spin, never get cops without a zombie/super-hero/espionage spin etc.

[Noah Johnson]

My point is that the current marketplace forces things to be tied to super-heroes, by and large, to survive.
And those ties are what need to be broken, that's my point.

[PatrickG]

And those ties are what need to be broken, that's my point.

I'm in agreement on that point.

Well, I can see a fringe place for cross-genre books but, ideally, both genres would be healthy standing alone before you'd see cross genre books.

[Noah Johnson]

I'm in agreement on that point.

Well, I can see a fringe place for cross-genre books but, ideally, both genres would be healthy standing alone before you'd see cross genre books.
I suspect we may be misunderstanding each other.

I'm talking about a scenario where superheroes don't outsell other popular genres, like horror, or comedy, or angsty-teen-coming-of-age-whining. A world where comics are an artform anyone can appreciate, and superheroes are a small little section of that.

"Cross-genre" would then be a subsection of a subsection. Are we on the same page at all, or are we talking past each other?

[MacQuarrie]

I've talked at length about my views on this subject a number of times, and as soon as I can find someone willing to put up a couple hundred grand, I'll go ahead and do it.

The short version, from my business plan draft:

Format: I would publish comics that are approximately the same size, page count, ad-to-content ratio and price as PEOPLE or TIME magazines. Every story is complete in each issue. Since each issue contains 60-80 pages of comics, there would be a number of stories in each one, varying in length as the plot requires. One story might be 20 pages, some might be 8-12 pages, others might be 2-3 pages, maybe even a few single-age comics.

Content: Everything but superheroes. Superheroes are not a genre, they are a collection of plot devices, cliches and assumptions that undergird stories in a variety of genres such as action, mystery, fantasy, etc. Most of those plot devices and cliches were forced onto superheroes by technological limitations and/or artistic limitations. I would publish all the genres that Manga publishes: science fiction, historic fiction, romance, fantasy, western, in short all the genres that were abandoned by US publishers when they moved to the direct market.

Editorial direction: No "universes". Every story takes place in its own version of the "real world", whatever that may entail, just as Lord of the Rings takes place in the "real" world's distant past, Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan and Doc Savage all take place in the "real world", Buck Rogers, Planet of the Apes and Star Trek are in the "real" future, and so on. If the world of "Al's History Repair" happens to contradict the world of "The Sorcerer's Correspondence School", well, that's just too darn bad... even if they have a crossover story, we wil never examine or deconstruct the mechanics of the comic book world. Some stories may unfold in "real time" others may have a characteer who stays 13 for 40 years, and they might even meet each other on a regular basis, and we STILL won't dissect how that's "possible". It's a comic.

Distribution: Same as any other legitimate magazine. If the direct market wants to carry the books, they can, but I will not cater to either them or Diamond.

Philosophy: Comics the way they used to be. FUN. Inexpensive disposable entertainment for readers aged 7 and up. Every issue is fully accessible to a first-time or casual reader, and the goal is to amuse them for a little while, not to create an alternate reality.

Ideally, the comics will be fun and entertaining enough to appeal to current comics readers, but if not, I'll settle for some of the 99.8% of people who currently don't read comics. Most of them love comics, if only somebody would let them in.

[superlurker]

I have thought of that and the problem with this is how you stop people from copying them and giving them to their friends for free?

There's nothing stopping people from doing that right now. There was an article series not too long ago about the phenomenon of comic book piracy -- people that scan the books and distribute them online. It's not really any different from all the other types of piracy. People copying CDs or DVDs, scanning books, or whatnot.

The real question isn't whether some people will copy comics and give them to others for free. The real question is whether the companies will want to compete on the newest and most effective channel for distributing reading material, or if they want to leave that venue entirely in the hands of the pirates.

It's next to impossible to completely prevent piracy from occurring online. But it's entirely possible to mostly beat piracy by competing against it. The big media companies just haven't tried hard enough yet.

There is DVD playing software you can't grab screenshots from.

Not really. There is probably such software that makes it harder or even next to impossible to grab screenshots for the average user, but for the people that are "pro pirates," there's no such thing as "can't" as long as it can be displayed on a computer monitor. Like all DRM, the biggest effect that blocking easy screenshotting has, is screwing honest customers over. The dishonest guys that d/l the pirated version will get the one where they can screenshot all they want. Or not have to keep a CD in the tray every time they want to start a game. And so forth.

[Bob Violence]

I'd advertise Vertigo-style titles in magazines that sync demographically. Guys at the newstand or Barnes and Noble to pick up their copy of FHM or Maxim might go for something like Y the Last Man or Jonah Hex (if they go with an more realistic 'R' rating). Women might go for Fables.
People who are already looking for something to read aren't going to be so put off by comics, as long as they don't have to visit the local comics store. Getting comics out of the comics store ghetto is key.
Also, I've seen a lot of suggestions to make comics smaller & cheaper, to get kids back into it, but what got me into it were those giant tabloid-sized editions. Just the one of Thor fighting Magog had me buying Thor comics for, like, 20 years! My 6 yr old son likes the Paul Dini/Alex Ross tabloid books, though they are a lot to read to him, they are pretty. It doesn't matter so much if it's a reprint or on cheaper paper, just as long as it's fairly current, not too expensive and BIG.

[Brandon Hanvey]

Pretty much what Jim said. Focus on more genres and different types of stories.

I would also have more graphic novels. A lot of people like long-form single narratives.

The more variety you have, the more likely people will find something they would enjoy reading.

[Selina Quinzel]

I can't do this. It's too much stress!

Except I'd get comics back into convience shops and drugstores (which they're gonna do soon, right? Too roight!) Less titles, but have the titles that are there cover broader spectrums. And i'd make comics more "hey reader, participate!" with stuff kind of like the DIY projects they had in the back on Action Girl, and letters columns are essential, and possibly scratch n' sniff stickers. The kids love them smelly stickers.

Also, if they'd publish all my genius ideas every company would increase their profits a trillion-fold immediately, I just know it. My outline of a modern day romance story drawn in a 1960's pulp romance books/vintage ads way is still free for the bigwig publishers.... (and don't steal it, it's already been done in a crummy black & white indie format and I know my copyright laws!)

[Converge]

I've talked at length about my views on this subject a number of times, and as soon as I can find someone willing to put up a couple hundred grand, I'll go ahead and do it.

The short version, from my business plan draft:

Format: I would publish comics that are approximately the same size, page count, ad-to-content ratio and price as PEOPLE or TIME magazines. Every story is complete in each issue. Since each issue contains 60-80 pages of comics, there would be a number of stories in each one, varying in length as the plot requires. One story might be 20 pages, some might be 8-12 pages, others might be 2-3 pages, maybe even a few single-age comics.

Content: Everything but superheroes. Superheroes are not a genre, they are a collection of plot devices, cliches and assumptions that undergird stories in a variety of genres such as action, mystery, fantasy, etc. Most of those plot devices and cliches were forced onto superheroes by technological limitations and/or artistic limitations. I would publish all the genres that Manga publishes: science fiction, historic fiction, romance, fantasy, western, in short all the genres that were abandoned by US publishers when they moved to the direct market.

Editorial direction: No "universes". Every story takes place in its own version of the "real world", whatever that may entail, just as Lord of the Rings takes place in the "real" world's distant past, Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan and Doc Savage all take place in the "real world", Buck Rogers, Planet of the Apes and Star Trek are in the "real" future, and so on. If the world of "Al's History Repair" happens to contradict the world of "The Sorcerer's Correspondence School", well, that's just too darn bad... even if they have a crossover story, we wil never examine or deconstruct the mechanics of the comic book world. Some stories may unfold in "real time" others may have a characteer who stays 13 for 40 years, and they might even meet each other on a regular basis, and we STILL won't dissect how that's "possible". It's a comic.

Distribution: Same as any other legitimate magazine. If the direct market wants to carry the books, they can, but I will not cater to either them or Diamond.

Philosophy: Comics the way they used to be. FUN. Inexpensive disposable entertainment for readers aged 7 and up. Every issue is fully accessible to a first-time or casual reader, and the goal is to amuse them for a little while, not to create an alternate reality.

Ideally, the comics will be fun and entertaining enough to appeal to current comics readers, but if not, I'll settle for some of the 99.8% of people who currently don't read comics. Most of them love comics, if only somebody would let them in.

So basically you want "Heavy Metal: For Kids" ?

PFG, MacQuarrie. PFG.

[Corrina]

If kids watch anime but they're still willing to read a continuing story in manga (as my son and his friends are), then I think there must be a market for kids to read superheroes in the same format.

Manga bypassed Diamond and went straight for the bookstores, gaining national distribution and exposure. I've got to think distribution is what's holding comic sales so far below what it used to be.

Get more cheap digest trades available widely and promote them. Those manga digest are $7 a pop and they contain a lot of bang for the buck. I don't even think continuing stories are the problem--Harry Potter is one long continuing story. But no one's worried about that because everyone is certain they'll have access to the next chapter.

As for the direct distribution market, I think it's already moving to catering to a more adult sensibility and will continue to do so because that's who frequents comic book stores. I think this is a dead end--Paul Levitz said his marketing people don't in a recent interview in "Entertainment Weekly."

But it's a strange adult market because real adult stuff that's still genre--Gotham Central, Sleeper, the Vertigo titles--don't sell nearly as well as the adolescent/adult mix in, say, Outsiders. And since DC is moving to what sells, they're moving more towards stuff I don't like, such as Identity Crisis, and away from mature stuff I do like, such as Sleeper.

DC seems to think this will work in the direct market. Me, if I were in charge, I'd bypass such a limited market and go straight for full-on national distribution in bookstores. Not easy, but the payoff for success would be immense.

[matterconsumer]

Manga and Harry Potter have mass approval.

When/if comics are read by those who others wish to emulate then comics will also have mass approval.

This has less to do with the quality of comics than it has to do with gaining the critical mass who others will in turn emulate.

[Converge]

Manga bypassed Diamond and went straight for the bookstores, gaining national distribution and exposure. I've got to think distribution is what's holding comic sales so far below what it used to be.


Comic books are sold in book stores, though.

[Corrina]

Kids don't differentiate between manga and other comics. They're all pictures telling stories to them, even though they'll notice the different artwork.

Similarly, kids watching Cartoon Network don't put "JLU" in a different category than "Yu-Gi-Oh." It's cartoons.

[heystacy]

I think I would make books that are reader friendly, and some all ages titles that people would like to read. I think of Leave It To Chance and Astro City as examples of some of the type of books I'd like to see more of.

I'd like to stremline the books. Trim down the titles, have a roundtable with the editors. Ask them why do we have certain books out and what we could do to improve, said books.

[Brandon Hanvey]

I’ll steal Jim’s format to add my own view.

Format: A wide range of monthly anthologies and semi-regular stand alone graphic novels. The stories in the anthologies could be one shots or continuing stories. The continuing stories would be later collected in trades.

Content: All genres for all age types. The books would be grouped: all-ages, teen, adult.

Editorial direction: The use a wide range of creators. More diversity in terms of talent. Various style of art and storytelling. More female and non-white creators than the current industry standard.

Distribution: Everywhere people would buy other books or magazines: comic shop, newsstands, bookstores, etc. There would also be an online version for download at a cheaper rate than printed versions for those who only want digital copies.

Philosophy: Comics are for everyone.

[MacQuarrie]

So basically you want "Heavy Metal: For Kids" ?

PFG, MacQuarrie. PFG.
I don't know what PFG means, but I'll assume it's good.

But no, not really. Heavy Metal has been lame and pretentious for years. I want a retrun to what Action Comics and More Fun Comics were in 1938, only brought up to a 21st century sensibility. "Radical" means cutting back to the root. Going all the way back to the beginning and starting over, avoiding the mistakes that were made the last time.

Comics made several major mistakes during the last 65 years; if I could come up with what comics would be if those errors were avoided, I think I'd be really successful. Among those mistakes:

1. Trying too hard to hold the price down for too long by reducing the page size and later the page count. In 1938, TIME and ACTION were about the same size and price.

2. Creating the Comics Code Authority in order to drive Bill Gaines and EC out of business. Very short-sighted.

3. Abandoning other genres rather than reimagining them. If romance comics are declining in popularity, it isn't because people stopped liking romance, it's because romance comics stopped providing content that people responded to.

4. Conversely, adapting every genre into the superhero mold. The World's Greatest Detective does not have to dress up like a bat. Humor, supernatural and mystery stories do not require capes and masks.

5. Spending far too many years soliciting the wrong kind of advertisers for their demographic before finally abandoning advertising entirely. Without ads to offset production costs, the cover price became prohibitive to the casual buyer, which led to the irrational and artificial direct market.

And so on.

If comics had done everything right over the last 7 decades, comics would today look very much like what I described. And millions more people would read them.

[Evan Waters]

personally i dont think that we need to get more people into comics. All we need is less titles, more shops, cheaper comics, lengthier stories.
However if its more comic book readers you want, the best way to go about it is to make comics more accesible, make one book stories. the main problem with comics today is that you pick up any random title and it will make no sense at all. instead of being like films comics should be like tv series in that you can watch any episode and enjoy it and for the fans of the show you can get an overall idea of a large story. For example its possible to enjoy an episode of the sitcom friends without watching anyothers, and the fans of friends get the mian idea of one large story that follows throughout the series. But modern comics arnt like this, they are more like random scenes from a film that you just started watching from the middle. It can be very hard for newcomers to get into comics if theyve never read any before. In the silver age every 21 page comic provided atleast an hour of reading and althought the art quality wasnt so great the stories were thouroughly entertaining.

To be fair, even silver-age titles started going into two-, three-, and even four-parters. But they made sure it was easy to follow, and those multipart stories were true epics, not minor stories extruded to TPB length.

[jerrymcl89]

The number one thing that would increase the circulation of the bigger comics would be to destroy the business model where they are sold almost exclusively in comic shops. But to do that would destroy the base that supports most of the less profitable comics, so I don't expect that to change.

The nature of comic shops should change - they tend to be cliquey, elitist places that don't welcome outsiders very well. But that is a shop-by-shop issue, not a business plan for the entire industry.

All things considered, I'd say the industry is doing okay right now. DC and Marvel are pushing each other to be better, and sales seem to have been drifting generally upwards over the last several years. I think the main things to keep an eye on are providing a broad spectrum of tone and content (I realize Infinite Crisis is making all the books a bit dark right now, but I would hope they will emerge from it in a variety of places), and trying to introduce new talent and new concepts, even if the companies have to tolerate some shaky sales to do it. It's a fact of life that DC's biggest characters are from the WW II era and the mid-50's, and that many of Marvel's are from the early 60's. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still strive to create the next character who'll be as big as Batman or Spiderman. They might need to change th kind of deals they make with creators to have any chance of that happening, though.

[Briareos]

I do think that lower prices really is the way. Here's how I would do this. 1. In Print comics the best way I can think to cut the price of comics would be to print them overseas. Unfortunately you'd have to print monthly issues way in advance because shipping from asian printers or such takes awhile.

The best way I can see though is through online only web publishing. Not webcomics but the exact same page count and format as the printed comics except only published through the net in some form.

[Dry Observer]

If I had a tremendous amount of cash, I'd probably just team up with an organization that gives away books to kids (like R.I.F.) and give away an age-suitable digest or trade paperback to each kid getting a regular book from the program. That would of course be in addition to whatever book they would otherwise be picking out.

Naturally I would be trying to give out extremely interesting digests or trades, but there's actually quite a rich heritage of kids and all-ages comics out there. A lot of these titles, admittedly, get cancelled, but it would still be fairly easy to revive the ones I really wanted. For example, if Marvel had already spoken to me and knew I was planning to order 50,000 copies of a new Gus Beezer trade, that trade would probably get printed. A pre-order of half a million copies would cement the deal.

Admittedly, there are a lot of other charitable works I want to accomplish before reaching this level of comics beneficence, but there's data supporting the idea that comics reading can encourage literacy and reading habits in kids (something I've seen myself). And besides, even if I only have enough money for a small scale inundation of digests and trades, well, that's a start. Pick a small town, and get to work.

Over the long term, my plan would probably be to flood particular strategic cities and university towns (places with likely readerships, and possible trendsetting locations as well) with a large number of trades and digests among all the grade levels from, say, 1st or 2nd through 9th or so (limited, of course, by whatever partners you had who were able to access these grades for book giveaways... assuming you weren't working directly through the schools).

There's enough high-quality stuff out there that you could easily give kids a wide variety of options in pretty much all grade levels. You might also supplement these giveaways with other high-end stuff that works in a visual/written medium -- such as the City, Castle, Cathedral, Pyramid, Mosque series of illustrated children's books describing in rich detail the construction of those historical structures. The Way Things Work series would also work well as a supplement. (Pricey, though.)

After a couple years of doing this in an area, I would fall back to just offering comics in a couple of grades. After a while, once the concept had truly gotten embedded, I might even let the giveaway lapse altogether.

Of course, the intelligent thing to do in this instance would be to own a series of comic shops that could take advantage of an upsurge in interest in their locales. Even if most of the contributed money came out of my pockets, a bit of it could be offset through profits. The long term plan, though, would be to increase children's literacy, to foster a keen sense of wonder, and to expose kids to new ideas -- like the importance of accepting others, the value of pretty much any hero's virtues and, yes, the potential for superhuman gifts and ways that some of them could (realistically) be realized. Yes, as someone interested in the field of human potential, preparing kids for the "brave new world that has such creatures in it" seems like a useful side effect. =)

But that's just me. Comments? Questions? =)

Ralph

[Tink!]

However, you can get kids to spend $7-15 on a 185-ish page digest (or $5 on a 100 page anthology). That's why I think those Marvel digests are a good idea, they're just enough story for the money and in a convenient size, too.

BTW, hasn't Runaways vol 1 sold enough copies to rival Marvel's top monthlies? I swear I read a number that was north of 100K a few months ago.

Big problem - the digests contain, on average, about six months worth of work. That means that apart from making readers wait a minimum of six months for their next fix, the sales of such a digest must pay the salaries of the creative team for six whole months.
Now I can't claim to know this for a fact, but I'm assuming the ability to publish digests at these prices is dependent on the fact that this is previously published material, so the creators might get royalties, but not a salary for it.

As for anthologies, that would be the same as publishing, for example, Superman, Action Comics, Adventures of Superman, and Supergirl together as one book. But if each of those are written the way they are today, they still won't have the appeal that a digest or trade containing a complete arc would. So where's the catch? The $5 price tag? Well, I don't know if that'd be possible if that book has to earn salaries for four creative teams.

My point was simple. There's nothing wrong with the 22 page a month format of single issues. The problem is that they're being written with a different format in mind. Writers and editors should not think of a single issue as part of a future trade, but simply as a single issue... one that a new reader just might pick up for the very first time.

[Ian Boothby]

I wonder if there's any way to get superhero strips in the newspaper in a way that doesn't blow. Amazing Spider-Man is the slowest strip next to Rex Morgan MD. Batman and the Justice League have had comic strips and they were just awful too. Is there a way to get something like Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man as a weekly color strip? I mean the best would be 7 page insert like the Spirit used to do. Have it be self contained but with a few references to what's happening in the monthly comic books (have Iron Man pop by and leave to fight something in his monthly book).

Find a time like when a movie is out and the characters are hot to introduce this.

[Just_A_Rat]

Okay, fora change, I didn't read the whole thread before posting, as while I'm suer others have had the same or similar ideas, there is no harm in repeating them in this thread, I do not think.

1) I'd create less crossovers and less story arcs that have more than 3 parts. I remember as a kid when I was at the cottage with my parents for a few weeks, I would walk over to the variety store, and grab some comics to read. Most of the stories were easy to get into, because not too much previous knowledge was required. I cannot imagine that same kid picking up the 11th issue of Knightfall, War Games or Superman: Our Worlds at War and getting the same benefit out of it. Events like Crisis or IC could still happen, but they should be the exception rather than the rule. I know that some people love these kinds of series, but I think it makes comics as a whole less accessible to new readers.

2) I'd use less long-term creators. Not in all cases, sometimes there is a great fit (Gail on Birds, Peter David on Hulk, etc.) but I would certainly like to entertain any writer who came to me and said "I have a great 3-issue story idea for Batman." Rather than letting them become the new regular writer for the book, let them write their 3 issues. Some of you may have seen my post about John Byrne, and how I think he still has a lot of talent, but has always suffered from this problem. He has a great X number of issues in him, but then doesn't really know what to do with the character. Great! Subject to Editorial Approval, let him write X issues, and get someone else on the series after him. I realize that a downside to this is that it would be harder to plan far in advance what is going to happen in series run this way, but ideally, it would also get rid of "filler issues." The same could work with artists. If an artist wants to take a crack at a chracter, the editor can decide if the artist's style works for the character, and let 'em have their shot.

3) I would have the major comic companies get together and develop a rating system for comics. Unifying this would be helpful, I think. I would then contribute series or TPs with appropriate ratings to schools. which leads to my next point.

4)I would also create "Make Learning Fun" programs - I would gather some comic stories and create some sample lesson plans for kids around them. Plans that discuss themes, and symoblism and such for High School students, and carefully select (or have written) comics for younger students that feature solid grammer, and sentences that can be taken apart to demonstrate the elements of the English language. I think this is a natural fit, and one that benefits both sides.

[Bob Violence]

I agree with your points, Just A Rat, but I would go further in keeping set creative teams on books keeping them on for at least two years.
And I would prioritize regular books over cross overs. Why does DC waste Rags Morales and Phil Jimenez on crossovers when they should save JLA from the unsightly mess it has become ? It should be the best DC has got, but instead it's a rotating train wreck.

[sixstringguild]

Another idea: I think Diamond needs to be phased out. Whenever one company has a monopoly (for the most part) on distribution, that can never be a good thing...

It's been pretty much proven by sales numbers that in the recent past, non-superhero comics don't tend to sell well and eventually get cancelled. For those of you who would publish only non-superhero titles, how would you do it and be successful in the long run. I'm of the belief that superhero titles sell well because people like them not because there's nothing else out there...

[TheLyle]

Big problem - the digests contain, on average, about six months worth of work. That means that apart from making readers wait a minimum of six months for their next fix, the sales of such a digest must pay the salaries of the creative team for six whole months.

Well, that's part of the equasion. You have a higher upfront cost (more labor before you get the payoff) that you hope will be offset by a longer-lasting revenue stream. A monthy comic is cheaper to produce for being relatively quick to produce, but you can only sell it for a few months. A bookshelf-format collection can be sold as long as the customer interest justifies the shelf space.

It's more expensive upfront but small publishers have made the transition from monthies to OGNs (AiT and Oni come to mind) so that the sales of the backstock fund development of more titles.

Though, my point was more that there is a format that's not too expensive for the kids. The cheapest stuff aimed at kids are the Shounen Jump Manga digests (which skews younger) at $7 a pop, but that also includes the $15 DMP Manga Digests (which skews more towards older teens and adults). It seems like the digest is a format that younger readers have accepted in comics and I don't think price is a barrier for collections. The main thing is that there's a good vaule associated with comics, I think kids (and their parents) see a better value in a $15 book than in a $3 periodical.


Now I can't claim to know this for a fact, but I'm assuming the ability to publish digests at these prices is dependent on the fact that this is previously published material, so the creators might get royalties, but not a salary for it.

For manga that's the case. The biggest costs seem to have been paid. However, Marvel's initial line of digests (Runaways, Sentinel, Emma Frost) seemed to have done well enough to generate more product including miniseries with horrible monthy sales (Live Wires, Spellwhatits) that still got collected, since they seemed intended for the digest market no matter what (despite the lettering issues in Live Wires).

As for anthologies, that would be the same as publishing, for example, Superman, Action Comics, Adventures of Superman, and Supergirl together as one book. But if each of those are written the way they are today, they still won't have the appeal that a digest or trade containing a complete arc would. So where's the catch? The $5 price tag? Well, I don't know if that'd be possible if that book has to earn salaries for four creative teams.

My idea for an anthology wouldn't replace monthlies, but supplement them, basically being a reprint periodical the way the Ultimate Marvel magazine should have been. The monthies still come out, but a few months later they're reprinted all together, except in a more convenient and significant package. The indended customer would be the reader who enjoys the monthy serial but is tired of having to compose checklists to make sure he doesn't miss a part or have to go out of his way to find that one part that he missed. The thickness will also, hopefully, make it feel like a good value. Additionally, an anthology getting more general distribution would hope to get more of its revenue from ad sales than cover prices. Naturally, part of the focus of an anthology magazine would be to drive its readers to buy the bookshelf volumes.

My point was simple. There's nothing wrong with the 22 page a month format of single issues. The problem is that they're being written with a different format in mind. Writers and editors should not think of a single issue as part of a future trade, but simply as a single issue... one that a new reader just might pick up for the very first time.

I disagree about the first part. IMO, the majority perception is that the periodical doesn't offer a good value, that it doesn't provide enough entertainment for the money spent. I think there is a market for the monthy issues, but it's in the fanbase that accepts its faults (the frustrations with distribution, for example). While I think part of that can be remedied on the editorial side (less writing for the trade), a good part of the value proposition is that the 22-page comic just doesn't feel like it's worth $3 to people who haven't bought any comics in a long time.

[MacQuarrie]

I disagree about the first part. IMO, the majority perception is that the periodical doesn't offer a good value, that it doesn't provide enough entertainment for the money spent. I think there is a market for the monthy issues, but it's in the fanbase that accepts its faults (the frustrations with distribution, for example). While I think part of that can be remedied on the editorial side (less writing for the trade), a good part of the value proposition is that the 22-page comic just doesn't feel like it's worth $3 to people who haven't bought any comics in a long time.
If the publishers could get mainstream distribution and something approaching decent circulation, they could solicit a lot of ads. 22 pages of comics in a 40 page magazine would be considered a better value, and the ad revenue would be so much tha tthe cover price would be much lower than the current price for 22 pages.

The only way that's going to happen is by the publishers behaving as if they were real publishers. The direct market should be ancillary, not the primary outlet. And that means Diamond must die. Their stranglehold on the industry must be broken.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Top quality comics by big name creators available both online and in stores for a realistic price

An aggressive multi-media marketing campaign that goes well beyond the traditional comics buying market.

And, above all, a wide variety of material of the highest quality possible.

[Tink!]

My idea for an anthology wouldn't replace monthlies, but supplement them, basically being a reprint periodical the way the Ultimate Marvel magazine should have been. The monthies still come out, but a few months later they're reprinted all together, except in a more convenient and significant package.
That has been tried with Crossgen's Forge and Edge, proving that for those who prefer waiting for collections, trades are preferrable over anthologies.
I disagree about the first part. IMO, the majority perception is that the periodical doesn't offer a good value, that it doesn't provide enough entertainment for the money spent. I think there is a market for the monthy issues, but it's in the fanbase that accepts its faults (the frustrations with distribution, for example). While I think part of that can be remedied on the editorial side (less writing for the trade), a good part of the value proposition is that the 22-page comic just doesn't feel like it's worth $3 to people who haven't bought any comics in a long time.
That's actually exactly my point - not enough entertainment for the money spent" - and I'm not even thinking of ppl who haven't bought any comics in a long time, but ppl who haven't bought any comics at all. Ever.
Most single issues published today have little to no content and tend to offer very little info about the main character(s). One is already expected to buy six issues of a title, or even of several titles, just to have a vague idea of what's going on.

And here's the thing: It didn't use to be like that. Not in the 60's, 70's or 80's. I'm not even gonna go into the golden age and 8 page stories.

[Hybrid2]

What would help a lot is Advertizing on TV.

Make trailers for some titles.or events.

Marvel did some for there site a few years ago.
there where great.made me want to get it.(even if i kew that book was terrible,IMO)

Lots of people still think comics are for kids.that would change a few peoples mind.

[TheLyle]

That has been tried with Crossgen's Forge and Edge, proving that for those who prefer waiting for collections, trades are preferrable over anthologies.

I remember being quite excited about the news of Forge and Edge, only to be immediately disappointed.

The biggest problem was that they looked too much like CrossGen TPBs. It was a very confusing product for retailers, who didn't know how to position it to their customers. Many stores I saw shelved them with CrossGen TPBs, where the audience for an anthology wouldn't find them. Plus there's that old problem of the name. Like almost every other CrossGen title, they would have been far more effective if they all just named themselves "BOOK". Fittingly, neither series had a strong brand identity -- neither title had a clear personality that would help a consumer identify which one would fit their tastes. For both titles, the entire brand identity relied on the CrossGen name, which isn't enough unless CrossGen expected all of their titles to appeal to their target demographic.

Most importantly, the product suffered from insufficient back-end support. You can't expect such a product to succeed if you just throw it out into the market and forget about it. From what I saw in comic shops, there wasn't enough retailer communication about the product, very few seemed aware of what the product was, which makes it even harder to sell to customers who don't comb through the press releases on Newsarama. The first time I asked my retailer to order me a copy, he ended up getting me a couple CrossGen series collections instead.

Not long after launching the two anthologies, CrossGen moved on and launch... what was it, the DVDs, the Travelers' editions? If you're gonna launch a product, especially one that's different from what the industry is accustomed, you have to be prepared to spend the first couple years putting your marketing and PR teams behind it.

So far, the only anthologies I've seen done "right" are the manga anthologies from Viz. A good anthology magazine is a periodical and should look and be treated like one. No heavy-duty glue binding, no high-quality glossy paper and a cover that tells a wandering customer what to expect within. (Check out those ultra-generic images on the first volumes of both titles. After reading them both, I couldn't tell you which stories those images related to and more importantly a customer who didn't follow comics industry news would have known what the product was. The format needs to look like something you'd shelve next to Entertainment Weekly and Rolling Stone... durable enough to survive casual browsing but not much more than that.

That's actually exactly my point - not enough entertainment for the money spent" - and I'm not even thinking of ppl who haven't bought any comics in a long time, but ppl who haven't bought any comics at all. Ever.
Most single issues published today have little to no content and tend to offer very little info about the main character(s). One is already expected to buy six issues of a title, or even of several titles, just to have a vague idea of what's going on.

And here's the thing: It didn't use to be like that. Not in the 60's, 70's or 80's. I'm not even gonna go into the golden age and 8 page stories.

Unfortunately, I think there's too much prejudice against the package for the 22-page monthy to make much further headway with concent adjustments. Thing is, too, some of the creative shifts that make the hobby unwelcoming to newcomers are aspects that the current fanbase expects. (As jaded as I am to crossovers, my friends are all gaga over Infinity Crisis.) Trying to change the creative direction of the industry is risky, since you could lose the eyes you do have and not draw new ones. I think some creative change is needed -- any title that's getting additional exposure on TV or film should be made to be an easy jumping-on point for new fans, despite the differences in continuity. I think you can succeed with different packages made with different audiences in mind, but you have to keep each audience in mind throughout the process (unless you're going to release some titles in only one type of package).

In my mind the ideal pacing would match what Brian K Vaughan does in titles like Runaways and Y:The Last Man. He gives a good amount of story in each issue with an enticing cliffhanger and they read better as story arcs. I don't think there's a problem with serial storytelling, as long as each chapter means something on its own. IMO, Vaughan's titles work well for both audiences.

[kingdom2000]

Follow the magazine/tv/internet... model. The money is made from advertising, not recouped in the selling of the actual product. For example, in TV, the money is made selling the commercial space (the monthly comic), later they make more money selling the DVDs of the series (Hardcovers, TPBs). They do this by making roughly 1/3 of the television show for commericals. Do the same in comics. In following the Magazine model, Increase the page count so more content but also increase the number of advertisements. Entertainment Weekly actually has a nice balance of content vs advertisements. Of course with this would have to be a cut in the cost of the comic. Get it back in the impulse buy range. Additionally, to help with the advertisement fees, return back to subscriptions. The reason that magazines can and do charge like 10 bucks for a years worth issues is so they have some numbers to effect the cost they charge for advertisements.

Once the comics drops into impulse buy range, they can probably offer better deals to get the comics in more stores. The more stores, the more copies have to made. The more copies made, the more cost per comics to produce decreases. The more the cost decreases the more profit AND the more produced the more can charge advertisers. Its all interconnected.

So this is a step back to old try and true systems that comics abandoned but use to follow. In additional to the past, must make use of the future. Create a deal with Google (their new virtual library would be ideal) or iTunes for the digitial distribution of comics. Don't set it up yourself. Let the companies that know how handle the technological overhead.

Now for all this to work or any other plan, the big 4 have to work together. They have to basically authorize Diamond or some netural party to make the deals. It does not help comics if four different deals have to be done or even worse exclusive deals. When that happens, you don't get iTunes, you get Napster for some songs, but need Rhaposdy for others. It has to be single source for all that you want whether at the store level or the digital level.


Thats how I would try to increase sells. Now if was just doing an experiment for giggles...return all comics to style and writing of 20-30 years ago just to see what new complaints would arise from all those that say comics should go to how they use to be.

[titanfan]

I agree that with a lot of people that the #1 problem facing comics today (if it is a problem) is distribution. Most of the ideas that have been proposed aren't revolutionary and I would be shocked if the higher ups in the comic industry have never thought or heard of it before.

We don't have the marketing data necessary to make the decision at this time. CrossGen tried a lot of different ways and formats for readers, but imho, didn't have the resources to try a lot of their experiments for a long period of time.

I think that the comics industry is going through a bit of a renaissance. It's not in immediate trouble where we need sudden and drastic change. But we do need to try new things to improve distribution. If I were head of a major comic company, my goals would be the following things:

- More research into R&D. A lot of suggestions by people are good, and a lot of them I agree with. But right now all they are are blind suggestions. I'd like to see some surveys, fan panels at conventions, proposed marketing strategies, etc.
- Seeing if we can use improved technology to cut costs. Rather than raise or lower prices, are we using technology as effectively as we can? As someone who works in the tech industry, I see a lot of places (many big companies) who don't use technology to their best advantage. Off the top of my head: Can we save money with cheap in-house lettering and colorists--seeing as a lot of it is done by computers. Can we develop software that will ink in scanned pencils for us? Is our Distribution Process really that optimal?
- Higher quality control. Nothing to do with distribution, but the QA process for comic books doesn't seem like it's very good. Basically it seems like everything goes through one editor (who is juggling tons of different stuff and is part of the creative process himself) who basically oks that a comic is ready or not to go out. That's totally unacceptable. In most industries, any product that goes out to the market has to pass rigorous quality assurance standards. I realize that the time from development to market on a comic book is pretty short, but there are so many times a comic book comes out and you're like "How the fuck did this piece of trash get out on the rack?" It would be nice if comic scripts for example got peer reviewed, comic art went through a panel, etc. It was said that the dudes at Comic Book Idol got harsher critiques than many people in the industry. That shouldn't be the case.
- New Types of Marketing. Now, I'm not one of those delusional people who think that DC Comics can afford to start buying commercials on TV to advertise comics--I realize that's simply not possible. It seems like a lot of the time that creators tend to do their own marketing. Someone will ask them for an interview--and they'll decide whether or not to do it, or whether or not to fly to a convention, etc. (Some are really good about it and grant all requests. Others prefer to live the life of a hermit and just do their job. Marketing shouldn't be an optional extension. It should be required of all creators) I really would like to see DC get a PR person who would actively try to get creators interviews to help generate a buzz around comics. For example, my local morning radio show interviews horribly lame people all the time. Someone like Geoff Johns would be a bigger draw than some of the people they interview. There's also college TV stations, more Comic Book Store signings, etc. Even smaller events like "Lunch with Gail" every other month in NYC could be a big hit. It would be great if all comic creators would market their product as vociferously as some of the indy creators do.

[stealthwise]

Increase distribution to other outlets. More bookstores and get back to grocery stores and gas stations. Bring out some more "disposable" comics again, lower the prices and use cheap paper stock. Bring back digests like Archie comics do and pump 'em out. Flood the collective consciousness once again. Get the young'ins into the colourful stuff once more.

Make anthology titles featuring both superheroes and OTHER genres. Infest the reader's minds with great stuff from things outside of the men in tights. Try some crazy stuff like detective comics, funny animals, westerns. More fantasy, more science fiction.

I'd like to see an influx of "graphic novels", though I understand that publishing them in serial format is a better way to test the market and also make more money from the product. I'd just like to see a better cohesive product, rather than collections of haphazard, mediocre arcs from the Big Two.

[stealthwise]

But to answer the original poster's question...

One word... synergy.

http://promontoryartists.org/lookingcloser/images/ingoodcompany-topher-synergy.jpg


You asshole, that part of your post made me laugh for a good two minutes. :)

[heystacy]

We also need to get more women, and minorities reading comics. Many do, but would like a little more reflection of themselves in the stores. How would we get our readers happy?

Could we expand the genre's too. Not just superheroes, but try genres. Anthologies were mentioned earlier. I think this would help make the difference.

[Alex Dragon]

Another idea: I think Diamond needs to be phased out. Whenever one company has a monopoly (for the most part) on distribution, that can never be a good thing...

There are several reasons why Diamond is the only distributor and why that isn't such a bad thing. There've been times in the past where there were several distributors at the same time and it really didn't benefit readers (or in some cases retailers) in any major way.

It's been pretty much proven by sales numbers that in the recent past, non-superhero comics don't tend to sell well and eventually get cancelled. For those of you who would publish only non-superhero titles, how would you do it and be successful in the long run. I'm of the belief that superhero titles sell well because people like them not because there's nothing else out there...

Some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread are interesting but most of them aren't thinking outside the box and are just things that have been tried before or simply things they as comic fans would like to see. Not that that's a bad thing but some of the ideas mentioned would do very little to bring in new readers or increase circulation in any major way.

Non-Superhero comics sometimes don't tend to sell well in comic shops but do much better in trade form in book stores. There are VERTIGO titles that work that way. From my understanding the list of top sellers in comic shops vs book stores is fairly different. In some cases the trades are the thing that makes it profitable to keep the comics going. Typically it's the comics that make the real profits that allow the trades to be done but in some cases the reverse is true. Some VERTIGO and most manga is like that. While some people rave about how how wonderfully manga is selling what's hardly mentioned that manga trades may sell well but the comic versions aren't exactly flying off the shelves in comic shops.

The people who buy from book stores aren't an exact reflection of typical comic shop customer. They have different tastes and all the goofy stuff comic fans get upset over such as numbering, amount of X-Titles, paper, contiuity, story arc length, different universes, etc., are things people who buy trades from a book store could care less about. I think trades are going to be the thing that makes the big difference in expanding the comic audience.

[Alex Dragon]

If the publishers could get mainstream distribution and something approaching decent circulation, they could solicit a lot of ads. 22 pages of comics in a 40 page magazine would be considered a better value, and the ad revenue would be so much tha tthe cover price would be much lower than the current price for 22 pages.

You guys need to keep in mind that a magazine is different from a comic/book. You can get away with having tons of ads in a magazine because a magazine usually consists of many short articles. the ads aren't as intrusive because there's usually only an ad interruption or two per article. With a book you're reading one story straight through. To have that many ads constantly break up the story is annoying to most people. Look at the amount of people yelling boody murder at Marvel for their recent ad placement and increase. You can't layout a book like a magazine.

The only way that's going to happen is by the publishers behaving as if they were real publishers. The direct market should be ancillary, not the primary outlet. And that means Diamond must die. Their stranglehold on the industry must be broken.

Diamond works fine for supplying comic shops. If the comic market is going to grow that growth should build off of what already exists. The direct market kept things going all this time and is the thing that'll keep things afloat as new things are tried.

[matterconsumer]

To have that many ads constantly break up the story is annoying to most people. Look at the amount of people yelling boody murder at Marvel for their recent ad placement and increase. You can't layout a book like a magazine.


Ad placement is the key. If the ads are primarily in the back of the book then this is less of a story hindrance. Then some standalone items such as letter pages, pinups, house ads, etc. could be interspersed to encourage folk to continue flipping through the comic.

[kingdom2000]

I think Marvel was on the right track with the additional ads. They just didn't give a consumer a trade off for tolerating it. People will tolerate ads if they feel they are getting a return of value for it. Just tossing in more ads without more value as Marvel did was a mistake. Tossing in more ads with more content or a lower price, that would have made the change tolerable.

As for those that can't tolerate such a change, wave bye-bye. At a certain point the comic companies will have to make moves that will cost them some collectors but in return they will get a larger audience. To gain the mainstream audience, some of the die-hard collectors may have to be the cost which is a shame but so be it.

[sixstringguild]

There are several reasons why Diamond is the only distributor and why that isn't such a bad thing. There've been times in the past where there were several distributors at the same time and it really didn't benefit readers (or in some cases retailers) in any major way.


You're probably right about the historical importance of Diamond. I brought them up because I thought about the new sales thresholds that they have put in place that don't seem to be non-superhero format friendly.

[TheLyle]

- More research into R&D. A lot of suggestions by people are good, and a lot of them I agree with. But right now all they are are blind suggestions. I'd like to see some surveys, fan panels at conventions, proposed marketing strategies, etc.

I agree about research but I'd stipulate that the reseach needs to avoid current comic buyers. We need to figure out what would transition people who don't currently buy comics.

- New Types of Marketing. Now, I'm not one of those delusional people who think that DC Comics can afford to start buying commercials on TV to advertise comics--I realize that's simply not possible. It seems like a lot of the time that creators tend to do their own marketing. Someone will ask them for an interview--and they'll decide whether or not to do it, or whether or not to fly to a convention, etc. (Some are really good about it and grant all requests. Others prefer to live the life of a hermit and just do their job. Marketing shouldn't be an optional extension. It should be required of all creators) I really would like to see DC get a PR person who would actively try to get creators interviews to help generate a buzz around comics. For example, my local morning radio show interviews horribly lame people all the time. Someone like Geoff Johns would be a bigger draw than some of the people they interview. There's also college TV stations, more Comic Book Store signings, etc. Even smaller events like "Lunch with Gail" every other month in NYC could be a big hit. It would be great if all comic creators would market their product as vociferously as some of the indy creators do.

IMO, with the market as decentralized as it is (a good thing, IMO) local "guerilla marketing" is what is needed. Like I said, I think the publisher's best return would be in putting their resources towards helping the comic shops who want to build their business up instead of trying industry-wide practices.

I love the idea of dedicating someone to marketing the creators. One thing I would put on their job description would be coordinating store signings and making sure that they meet certain standards (to avoid being set up at the wobbly card table in the dark corner of the store). That would be very labor intensive at first, with lots of travel, but I think that's a job that would get easier with time, as relationships with retailers are developed. Also, I'd ask that person to focus on getting coverage on comics in the local newsweeklies, especially in creators' markets.

I'm also really big on the idea of making local marketing kits. Redesign house ads so that they can be used by retailers in fliers and local publications (which mostly means a slight rearrangement to include space for the retailer's contact informaton). Make as many different versions available as possible so the retailer who thinks he can draw new customers with Birds of Prey and the one who thinks his audience would react strongest to Sandman can pursue their different customer bases. Most importantly, put out a newsletter about local marketing opportunities. As the Superman movie approaches, give the retailers suggestions on how to take advantage of the event, including tips towards striking a deal with the manager of the local movie theatre (in my experience, a lot of businesses are willing to exchange coupon distribution where they pass out your coupons to their customers in exchange for you doing the same).

[MacQuarrie]

You guys need to keep in mind that a magazine is different from a comic/book. You can get away with having tons of ads in a magazine because a magazine usually consists of many short articles. the ads aren't as intrusive because there's usually only an ad interruption or two per article. With a book you're reading one story straight through. To have that many ads constantly break up the story is annoying to most people. Look at the amount of people yelling boody murder at Marvel for their recent ad placement and increase. You can't layout a book like a magazine.
That's exactly my point. I'm talking about repackaging comics as a magazine. An anthology containing several stories, just the way Action #1 was. That allows ads to fall between features.

Having been involved in production and design for both books and magazines, I do know hte difference.

Diamond works fine for supplying comic shops. If the comic market is going to grow that growth should build off of what already exists. The direct market kept things going all this time and is the thing that'll keep things afloat as new things are tried.
Diamond and the Direct Market created the problems that they get credit for "keep[ing] things afloat" through. Diamond is a monopoly and a detriment to comics at this point.

[Charles RB]

That's exactly my point. I'm talking about repackaging comics as a magazine. An anthology containing several stories, just the way Action #1 was. That allows ads to fall between features.

In fact, that's the sort of format Judge Dredd Megazine has been using over here for about 15 years and it seems to have done well in newsagents. It's a format that works and I'd like to see more of (because the more good and varied stories in one issue, the better).

[MacQuarrie]

The thing is, when I look at the comics industry, I see a vehicle that has had all sorts of jerry-rigged bits attached to it to keep it running. The whole thing has become this Rube Goldberg contraption, and most people involved are completely convinced that all the extra bells and whistles are vitally necessary to its operation. Anybody who really looked at it would be able to see the elegantly simple machine underneath that still works perfectly if only it weren't burdened by all the useless attachments.

It's time to tear it all down to the bare bones and rebuild it better. Keep what works and mercilessly throw overboard anything that doesn't.

The current format doesn't work. Neither does the current distribution system.

[Bright-Raven]

Jim and I have been discussing this privately for several months. Not only the formats, but also creators, content, creators rights and how to write up FAIR, EQUITABLE contracts for all parties involved... a whole slew of subject matters pertinent to running a publisher. We have individual drafts for structuring the company and will eventually be sitting down and compiling what we want to do.

Jim's philosophy and mine slightly differ in that I want to go with a different size format of magazine than he does. He prefers TIME magazine. I prefer TEEN VOGUE magazine, because it's closer to comics size (6.75 W X 9 T), has a higher page count (180pp., with an ad ratio of about 30%), and has a better price point ($2.50 US; $3.50 Canadian & Foreign). We're both for all-ages material. He wants an anthology with all ages and all genres (save superheroes). I agree with that, but also want genre specific anthology models for SF, Fantasy, Horror, and other genres for Teen / Adult audiences, but we agree that they probably will have to be developed over time.

I'm also interested in producing original "graphic novel magazines". That is, taking the Trade Paperback and doing it in TEEN VOGUE format and marketing and distributing that at a reasonable price, instead of making this trade paperback reprint crap that's costing $15 to $20 (a la the current model). This format would feature a self-contained original story at whatever page size (I'd prefer a minimum of 144 pp. in story and my heart's desire would be between 200-300 pp.), and instead of 30% ads, about 10-15% ads, all placed in the back of the book after the story was over, with the "development art" and interviews with the creators and stuff. Instead of the current typical $15 to $20 price tag, we'd be trying to bring the price down to that of a normal prose fiction trade - about $8, $10 at the outside. It would sport a cardstock cover and possibly better paper stock, but likely the same as a TEEN VOGUE's or TIME's paper stock, which is of reasonable quality. There are plenty of magazines out there who already use this format just at lower page counts - many of the trading card magazines for the kids have cardstock covers, for example.

From what Jim and I have separately researched and have discussed, we know this is a viable business model, given the proper amount of startup capital. We have access to creators with plenty of creator-owned content who are chomping at the bit for such an opportunity, as well as our own creations.

And please- do not ask for names of the potential creators we have access to or potential projects. Neither Jim nor I want to Name Drop. It's not fair to the creators - none of whom at this time are obligated in any manner. We'll proudly announce any and all creator agreements if and when they come about.

[Bright-Raven]

And just to add some points from Jim's original post in this thread:

No "universes".

There will be "universes", in the sense that if a creator has different concepts that take place in the same "universe", it'll be allowed as long as the creator presents a sensible internal logic to their own stories - that's what Jim wants. Sensible internal logic and consistency.

But as far as a cohesive "universe" that has to have every little thing tied into one another, no.

Distribution: Same as any other legitimate magazine. If the direct market wants to carry the books, they can, but I will not cater to either them or Diamond.

What Jim means by this is that the product(s) will not necessarily be offered through Diamond - in fact it's pretty much a guarantee it won't be. The magazine(s) would be available through various other distribution sources - we have about 15-20 other candidates we're researching currently.

There's also a strong probability of online store, subscription services, catalog service, and other means for readers and retailers alike to acquire the goods.

Philosophy: Comics the way they used to be. FUN. Inexpensive disposable entertainment for readers aged 7 and up. Every issue is fully accessible to a first-time or casual reader, and the goal is to amuse them for a little while, not to create an alternate reality.

Ideally, the comics will be fun and entertaining enough to appeal to current comics readers, but if not, I'll settle for some of the 99.8% of people who currently don't read comics.

Precisely. The goal here is to reach the general public. We believe that if we do our jobs right, comics fans will hopefully like what we do and will buy accordingly. But we have to be realistic. Most of you are already strapped for cash and tied into enough collecting. There's a lot of product out there already fighting for your dollars. So as much as we may like you, you can't be our priority, because we know you already have your loyalties and your limits, and we can't expect everyone to follow us. And we don't.

But if / when we do come out, hopefully you'll come across us and like what you see.

[Charles RB]

He wants an anthology with all ages and all genres (save superheroes). I agree with that, but also want genre specific anthology models for SF, Fantasy, Horror, and other genres for Teen / Adult audiences, but we agree that they probably will have to be developed over time.

I'd have thought genre-specific titles would be a safer bet to start off with as they'd be easier to market.

[Alex Dragon]

I'm personally not a big fan of anthologies. Most times what ends up happening is I like one or two of the ongoing stories and don't care for the rest. This is the sort of thing that keeps me from buying ALAN MOORE"S TOMORROW STORIES. More often than not that book only has one story I'm interested in. It's just not worth it for me to buy it for that one story. Especially when that one story is only a few pages long.

Doing multiple stories is sort of a gamble in that sense. Sure you can say putting those stories in one package creates a bargin but it's not a bargin if a reader is one interested in one or two stories and is forced buy a book with stuff they don't care for. I'd rather pay full price for what I specifically want.

[Alex Dragon]

Diamond and the Direct Market created the problems that they get credit for "keep[ing] things afloat" through. Diamond is a monopoly and a detriment to comics at this point.

The direct market has indeed kept things afloat because when comics were sold on the "newstands" (other outlets) over the years almost from the beginning sales were slowly dropping off. Eventually things got the point where it wasn't profitable enough for the companies to continue going that route. It cost money to print up all those extra books that may or may not sell and it cost money to store or get rid of them after the fact.

So yes the direct market kept things afloat by allowing companies to print numbers closer to what they know will be sold instead of wasting tons of time and money printing up books that will be returned. The direct market also allowed smaller companies and individuals the chance to do comics by printing what they are sold instead of spending huge amounts of cash they didn't have trying to supply on a national level only to have most of those books come back unsold. The direct market has made it possible for some great creators and books to get a shot at doing comics.

[TheLyle]

The thing is, when I look at the comics industry, I see a vehicle that has had all sorts of jerry-rigged bits attached to it to keep it running. The whole thing has become this Rube Goldberg contraption, and most people involved are completely convinced that all the extra bells and whistles are vitally necessary to its operation. Anybody who really looked at it would be able to see the elegantly simple machine underneath that still works perfectly if only it weren't burdened by all the useless attachments.

It's time to tear it all down to the bare bones and rebuild it better. Keep what works and mercilessly throw overboard anything that doesn't.

The current format doesn't work. Neither does the current distribution system.

I agree with the diagnosis, but I disagree about "tearing it down". Unfortunately, it's supporting the industry at the moment; it's helping as much as hurting. IMO, it should be used to fuel the development of new markets and should develop in a way where it becomes the workshop for the larger (bookstore, newsstand) markets.

[PatrickG]

I think the direct market encouraged dillution of what made comics good, both laterally on the shelf and in terms of storytelling.

The payoff of one issue is now spread out over a six issue run because the "more mature" audience still reading these things demands more to be spelled out for them. Complain as they may about decompression, current fans also complain about unresolved details. They want to know WHERE Superman got that giant iceberg and they want to see an impressive splash page of him getting it or they won't buy it. "Comics is a visual medium", they say. "Show me. Don't tell me. Don't assume I'll imagine what happens because I'm paying $3 an issue and I want a COMPLETE story."

Furthermore, companies have dilluted their characters by expanding them into spinoffs, creating a lateral dillution on the shelf. Where once there was FANTASTIC FOUR, now we have three FF titles, a THING book, BLACK PANTHER, assorted SILVER SURFER and ADAM WARLOCK projects, INHUMANS projects, etc. Where once you had SUPERMAN and ACTION COMICS, today you have SUPERGIRL, TEEN TITANS (using a Superboy), LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, JUSTICE LEAGUE (using Superman), etc.

It's harder to bake a cake if you have to share your ingredients with half a dozen other people. Characters that sell decent numbers in their own title may be better as supporting characters or back-up features in ANOTHER book to really make sales skyrocket.

I think if I was really in a position to shake things up, I might be inclined to force the genie back into the bottle in terms of spinoffs.

How much more appealing would a SUPERMAN, BATMAN, FF or X-MEN title be when it's the only place to see your favorite characters. You've got clear stars to anchor the book and dozens of recurring/supporting characters who seem good enough to headline their own books.

But you don't spin them off because it makes the core book less marketable. And if you do spin them off, spin them off into another fully-formed concept (ala TEEN TITANS or JLA) that has its own rich history to borrow from.

IMO, the best Supergirl stories are also Superman stories. The best Robin stories are Batman or Teen Titans stories. The best Silver Surfer stories are Fantastic Four stories.

And note that none of these characters got their own book for years or even decades after they were introduced and even then rarely found the fame and popularity they h