Defining Character Moments

[PhoenixBoyX]

Let's talk about defining character moments. Those moments where you just get it, ya know? Where the character does something powerful, important, and extraordinarily amazing. And I don't mean something hugely powerful in terms of their mutant ability. I'll start off with the most NOTORIOUS example.

Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix. Moon death. This showed us (prerecton) that she realized how much the power had corrupted her. How sorry she was. How she knew she had to save her friends the unending pain of her survival and what it would cause for the X-Men. Uncanny 137.

And remember folks, it doesn't always need death to be defining. Mention issue numbers if you can so people can read 'em too!

Oh, and this is not a forum for Whedon/Claremont battles. I bet those two guys get along. So why can't you?

-Nick

[Tennoarashi]

Storm. Life-Death II.

[Taskmaster]

First thing that popped into my mind is the fight between Gambit and Gladiator around Uncanny 275, probably my favorite Gambit moment ever, taking on a character that he has no chance of beating and still making a good show of himself

http://homepage.mac.com/jubei1/manga/gambit5.jpg

Some other defining moments for me include Cannonball's fight with Gladiator (Hmmmm GLadiator=defining moments?) and Bishop saving the team from Onslaught and solving his mystery of the X-Traitor

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/cannonball21.jpg

[Taskmaster]

Here is the Bishop moment

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/bishop10.jpg

[Brian M.]

Cyclops - Death of Jean Grey than giving away Nathan to Mother Askani so he could save him. Also I think him leaving Maddy and than marrying Jean.

[xakko]

Colossus- Killing Riptide after he hurt Nightcrawler, then threatening the life of Harpoon, who'd just hurt Kitty.

Also, threatening "Doom" after he'd taken out "Kitty" in Uncanny 197

[DDM]

Jean Grey's suicide on the Blue Area of the Moon as Dark Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #137.

Storm's loss of her mutant powers in Uncanny X-Men #185 with LifeDeath follow up in Uncanny X-Men #186; LifeDeath II is equally good since its the resolution of Storm's discorvery of her human spirit to succeed without her powers which culminates in Uncanny X-Men #201.

Rachel Summers discovers her mother, Jean Grey, is dead in Uncanny X-Men #188 and lashes out with her telekinetic powers on the X-Men. Likewise, Rachel's transformation into Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #199. Rachel's confrontation with Selene, the Black Queen, in Uncanny X-Men #207 sets another twisted path for her as she is eventually captured & rendered amnesiac by Spiral in Uncanny X-Men #208-209.

[Christopher O]

Storm's duel with Callisto. It was really representative of the end of the naive nature goddess and the birth of the tough-as-nails, iron-willed bitch goddess. It put her on the road to some of the most interesting character development an X-Character has ever seen.

[Davideaux]

Nightcrawler, on crutches, having broken his femur fighting Brian Braddock, leading the Technet.

[AceOfSpades]

I've always thought of Rouge throwing herself in front of Viper's laser blaster in UXM 173 was a defining moment for her. She risked her life for someone that didn't even really like her.

[Flameworthy]

Dazzler's battle with Juggernaut in Uncanny X-Men #217.

[LoneWolf21]

Speaking of Cannonball, how about in X-Force #19, where Sam argues on X-Force's behalf to Xavier about the open hand and the closed fist, and wins?

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/cannonball12.jpg

[d newton]

Colossus- Killing Riptide after he hurt Nightcrawler, then threatening the life of Harpoon, who'd just hurt Kitty.
This was a "meh" moment for him IMO. A better example would be his death in Uncanny 390! :D

[xakko]

This was a "meh" moment for him IMO. A better example would be his death in Uncanny 390! :D
Now that's just plain mean.

[Kirayoshi]

Kitty Pryde; Uncanny X-Men #168, "Professor Xavier is a Jerk!" Professor X 'demoted' Kitty from X-Man to New Mutant, and after some general grouchiness on the subject, she attempted to prove her worth as an X-Man, finally doing so in a battle with three Sidri hunters who had infested the mansion's lower levels, and managed to depower her temporarily. Great moment: Kitty, up against the wall, facing the Sidri, thinking, "He's going to fire again. I wonder if it will hurt."

[Henry T.]

Lets see, some defining Jean Grey moments...

Uncanny X-Men #100-- Jean is defiant to Wolverine and Scott and decides to pilot the shuttle, sacrificing herself for her friends.

Uncanny X-Men #137-- Jean kills herself to end the threat of Dark Phoenix.

X-Men #28-- Jean Grey stands up to Sabretooth.

X-Men #53-- Jean resists Onslaught.

New X-Men #154-- Jean sacrifices her love and marriage with Scott to save the universe.

Other notable moments... Classic #8 (Jean becomes Phoenix), Classic #43 (Jean talks with Death), Fantastic Four #286 (Jean deals with awakening to a changed world), New X-Men #120 (Jean protects the children from the U-Men), and New X-Men #139 (Jean ravages through Emma's mind).

[Kirayoshi]

Now that's just plain mean.
Only if you hold that his actions in that issue constitute suicide instead of a noble sacrifice. Personally, I think it was somewhere between the two.

For a truly defining moment for Colossus, look no further than X-Men #128, the finale of the Proteus arc, where Colossus used his metal form to ground Proteus' energy, straining his body to the limit but ultimately destroying Proteus. Then he comforted Moira as she grieved the loss of her son.

Whatta guy.

[xakko]

Only if you hold that his actions in that issue constitute suicide instead of a noble sacrifice. Personally, I think it was somewhere between the two.

For a truly defining moment for Colossus, look no further than X-Men #128, the finale of the Proteus arc, where Colossus used his metal form to ground Proteus' energy, straining his body to the limit but ultimately destroying Proteus. Then he comforted Moira as she grieved the loss of her son.

Whatta guy.
Only because he was an idiot about it. I think one of Jamie's dupes was a logical choice that brilliant minds like Charles and Hank - especially knowing that one had already died from it- would've pursued.

Also, because he would've put his affairs in order too, at the very least leaving a note for Kitty. Yes, Peter could act rashly in the heat of the moment, but this was a moment where he was consciously deliberating his actions, and while he still would've stuck the plunger in, he wouldn't have left the mess he did. IMO, anyway

[LoneWolf21]

Only because he was an idiot about it. I think one of Jamie's dupes was a logical choice that brilliant minds like Charles and Hank - especially knowing that one had already died from it- would've pursued.

But then you go into another mookety-mook, because the dupes aren't quite that indespensable. When one dies, Jamie feels and experiences it. Heck, the first time one died he was shocked into amnesia.

[d newton]

Now that's just plain mean.
Mean how? I have never been happy with Colossus after what he did in Excalibur 92! ;)

[Kirayoshi]

Mean how? I have never been happy with Colossus after what he did in Excalibur 92! ;)
Which is of course the very first appearance by Colossus ever. :rolleyes:

Okay, repeat after me. Excalibur #92 and UXM #390 were out-of-character depictions of Colossus, by people who didn't know how to write him properly. They are isolated instances that do not speak of the man's innate decency. Yes he has a temper. He does act rashly on occasion. But at the end of the day you would be hard-pressed to find a more decent human being than Piotr Nicholevich Rasputin.

[Teamballin]

I'ma go with my man Havok on this one the dude has done some great stuff as a villian and as a hero. Example: Going up against Wolverine and Psylocke.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/havok17.jpg
And who can forget this...
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/covers/uncanny/uncanny339.jpg

[ReaderX]

Defining moment for Cyclops - when the "awakened" sentinel attacks the Xavier institute and Cyc takes off his visor and gives the sentinel a full-powered blast, knocking the sentinel off their front lawn and into the trees.

Defining moment for Wolverine (besides the Hellfire club) - Wolverine #100. After Nemesis tries to rebond adamantium to Logan's bones, Logan expels the adamantium violently, then goes completely feral on Nemesis and his crew. After he kills Nemesis, he tells Cannonball "Tell Cable I'm sorry."

Defining moment for Xavier - when the Cerebro-controlled prime sentinel is fighting the x-men, little Nina reactivates Xavier's powers and Xavier makes Cerebro see exactly what it wants to see - the death of the X-Men. He then breaks the illusion, showing all the x-men alive and well.

[Teamballin]

How could anyone forget about Storm tho... She physically battle for leadership twice that should count for something.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/storm21.jpg
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/storm29.jpg
She riped Marrows heart out remember..
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/storm43.jpg

[tangentman]

Storm: The very first time we learn about Ororo's claustrophobia during the fight with Black Tom & Juggernaut beneath Cassidy Keep. Storm's instrumental role in freeing the X-Men from Magneto's "infant chair" trap in the rematch between Mags & the new team. Don't forget Storm taking over leadership of the team after Jean's death. Storm meets Kitty Pryde in #129.

Wolverine: Meeting Weapon Alpha/Vindicator/Guardian and learning a piece of Wolverine's past. Wolverine gutting the Hellfire Club thugs and Harry Leland. Logan's torment over whether or not he should kill his Brood-infected teammates. Wolverine allowing Rogue to absorb his powers after her trial-by-fire against Viper & Silver Samurai.

Kitty Pryde: Helping Cyclops, Phoenix, Nightcrawler, and Dazzler free the captive teammates from Emma Frost. Kitty's fight against the N'Garai demon gave us a glimpse of things to come for the character. Kitty demoted to the New Mutants. Kitty nearly being a victim of an anti-mutant hate crime when the human college students who bashed Prof. X try to kill her as well. Kitty learns that she can wield Illyana's Soul Sword; her reaction to Doug's death and Illyana's de-aging in Excalibur/New Mutants.

[Teamballin]

Psylocke moments could be recognized when she took on Sabretooth both times.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/psylocke10.jpg
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/psylocke21.jpg

[d newton]

Okay, repeat after me. Excalibur #92 and UXM #390 were out-of-character depictions of Colossus, by people who didn't know how to write him properly. They are isolated instances that do not speak of the man's innate decency. Yes he has a temper. He does act rashly on occasion.
Excalibur 92 & Uncanny 390 were not out of character moments for Colossus -remember he was still feeling guilty that he couldn't save his younger sister.

But at the end of the day you would be hard-pressed to find a more decent human being than Piotr Nicholevich Rasputin.
I can, his name's Pete Wisdom!

[DDM]

Psylocke:

Captain Britain #5-6: Betsy psionically fires every synapse in Kaptain Briton's brain at once eventually killing him to save her own life; in reading his mind, she becomes even more disgusted by his own depravity.

Captain Britain #13: Betsy, as Captain Britain II, is defeated by Slaymaster & the Vixen. Slaymaster blinds Betsy. He would have killed Betsy had she not reached out telepathically to Brian Braddock. Brian kills Slaymaster.

The New Mutants Annual #2: Betsy becomes a slave of Mojo. He gives her bionic eyes & entrances the New Mutants into the Wildways, Betsy's own twisted, tained Mojo mind. However, Cypher & Warlock defeat both Spiral & Mojo in freeing Betsy. Betsy then returns the kids to their bodies & defeats Spiral. Mojo gives Betsy the name Psylocke.

Uncanny X-Men Annual #10: Betsy's bionic eyes are revealed to be cameras projecting everything she sees & thinks back to Mojo World. Psylocke never reveals her eyes are bionic or Mojo's gift to her fellow X-Men for fear they would ask Besty to leave the mansion.

Uncanny X-Men #213: Betsy fights Sabretooth in the mansion. With the help of the X-Men, she reads his mind to find out more about the Marauders & Mr. Sinister. Sabretooth escapes. Psylocke joins the X-Men.

Uncanny X-Men Annual #11: Psylocke discovers her true self is a warrior.

Uncanny X-Men #256-258: Psylocke achieves her true potential as the ultimate woman warrior in the form of the Hand's ninja assassin; however, the true puppet masters are Mojo & Spiral--not the Hand--as Betsy becomes Lady Mandarin. Betsy manifests her psycho-blaster powers as her psychic knife.

[xgeek52]

hey after reading the xmen for as long as i have defining character moments are like grass growing under your feet...

i lurked last night but really couldn't come up with anything...then my wife (stormygirl) reminded me of phoenix endsong...the definining moments then were not only jean for accepting who she was but emma realizing that she had scott's love and devotion and scott for letting go...the entire mini series was about that but it was brought home in the last chapter...it was all about sacrafice across the board...

it doesn't end there...claremont's the end series (heroes and martyrs)...scott knows there is a war on and it is up to him to lead it...but what does he do he sends kitty -- the xman who has been on the front lines since she was thirteen --back to chicago to run for mayor...he realizes that at that moment kitty pryde could be useful in the mainstream and not as a warrior...

in that same vein, kitty realizes that scott is right...she needs to fight the good fight elsewhere, even when rachel comes to her and tells her there is a major fight brewing and she may not come back...

one last moment...this is from the lee/ditko/kirby era...xavier has gone missing and the original five have been left to sink or swim on their own...scott takes up the leadership mantle -- even if that meant not pursuing a social life (ie jean grey) outside the mansion...

makes you wanna go hmmm... :cool:

[Hi-Fi]

Teamballin, nice work illustrating your posts! : )

[xakko]

Excalibur 92 & Uncanny 390 were not out of character moments for Colossus -remember he was still feeling guilty that he couldn't save his younger sister.
Except that he wasn't.

He'd had a breakthrough about that in Excalibur #71. #92 is a complete cluster**** compared to the issues immediately preceding it. But we've been through that and you don't care, so there you are.

I can, his name's Pete Wisdom!the man who used to kill with impunity, shows complete disregard for other people's health by exposing them to carcinogenic fumes, and walked out on the girl he professed to love because she was honest and wanted to discuss her feelings? Fine figure of a human being, that.

[Teamballin]

Teamballin, nice work illustrating your posts! : )
Thanks Hi-Fi... Just showing visual quotes thats all.
Jubilee had a breakthrough performance early on, when she resuced Wolverine and hung out with him in Japan. She blew up a whole building.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/jubilee07.jpg

[Kirayoshi]

the man who used to kill with impunity, shows complete disregard for other people's health by exposing them to carcinogenic fumes, and walked out on the girl he professed to love because she was honest and wanted to discuss her feelings? Fine figure of a human being, that.
And then for an encore, didn't bother to let said girl he professed to love know he was still alive. Oh, and once she found out he was alive, he acted like she would jump back into his arms if he leered at her again. Not effin' likely.

The only way Pete would qualify as a decent person is if Marvel had a Bizarro-World.

[LoneWolf21]

But then Kitty react that way either. There was no "AAAH! You're alive?! Why didn't you tell me?!" or anything.

I'm guessing Claremont is just skipping right over Counter X X-force. Hey, everyone else is.

EDIT: Of course, when it came to "Hey, I'm alive after all!" stuff, Piotr (and the rest of the Aussie era X-Men) aren't exactly innocent in that department either.

[d newton]

Kirayoshi & Xakko - you make it sound like Colossus is the perfect boyfriend for Shadowcat based on your comments to me! ;)

[Kirayoshi]

Maybe not perfect, D. But I just happen to think that Piotr and Kitty have a more genuine spark than Pete and Kitty. I don't hate Pete Wisdom, I like Pete.

I like chocolate and I like polska kelbasa. But somehow, a chocolate-sausage sandwich doesn't quite make me hungry. Much like my opinion of Pryde and Wisdom. They just don't work together for me.

[Kirayoshi]

But then Kitty react that way either. There was no "AAAH! You're alive?! Why didn't you tell me?!" or anything.
Seriously, after Piotr, nothing surprises her anymore. "Geez, another one? Guess the revolving door at the Pearly Gates still works."
EDIT: Of course, when it came to "Hey, I'm alive after all!" stuff, Piotr (and the rest of the Aussie era X-Men) aren't exactly innocent in that department either.
Okay, fair play for you, LoneWolf. But I did suspect at one point that the Aussie-era X-Men were somehow manipulated into faking their deaths. Remember, it was Roma who gave them the option of allowing the world to believe that they had died. The same Roma who would later show up in the Alan Davis-era Excalibur, during their battle with Necros. I always suspected that she had a hand in creating Excalibur for just that purpose, and part of her scheme was convincing the members of Excalibur that their fellow X-Men had died so they would form their own team.

[d newton]

But I just happen to think that Piotr and Kitty have a more genuine spark than Pete and Kitty. I don't hate Pete Wisdom, I like Pete.
If you had to pick a boyfriend for Kitty other than Colossus & Pete Wisdom, who would it be and why would you choose them? ;)

[TinMan]

If you had to pick a boyfriend for Kitty other than Colossus & Pete Wisdom, who would it be and why would you choose them? ;)

Well, I'm gonna field this one real quick, cause I woulda defended Piotr the same ways those guys did.

I'm gonna go with Sam Guthrie, personality wise he would be great for Kitty. He may not be able to match her intellectually, but he definitely has combat smarts and street smarts, not to mention that he's a good ole farm boy, he knows how to treat her right and appreciate her. But overall I think Sam would make a good match for her, though I really like him w/ Lila and I would prefer Colossus w/ Kitty.

[The Lucky One]

Some great examples so far, but not one single person yet has mentioned what I consider Cyclops's defining moment- UXM #167, with Xavier transformed into a Brood Queen. After meeting and battling the New Mutants, the X-Men then have to tussle with BroodXavier, and after a grueling battle, finally manage to get her on the ropes. At which point Wolverine moves to kill him... but Cyclops stops him. No, he says. I was the first X-Man. It's my responsibility. The man who raised him, his father in every respect that counts, is in horrible circumstances, and though it's breaking his heart, he knows he has to put him down... it's practically Old Yeller, just with a crippled telepath instead of a dog. Except when Xavier manages to briefly assert himself over the Brood Queen's personality, saying he's losing control and begging Scott to kill him, what does he do? He refuses... because if there's a single iota of hope, he's not ready to give up yet. Wolverine tries to fulfill Xavier's request and Cyclops smacks, literally smacks him away. No. Because as he goes on to note, Jean said the same thing before she died, and he's damned if he's going to allow another person he loves to go out the same way- the X-Men may kill when necessary, but they fight to preserve life whenever possible; no matter how slim the chance, no matter how long the odds. So eff you, Wolverine- we do this my way.

THAT, my friends, is the leader of the X-Men. Cannonball's reaction just said what we were all thinking- "Wow."

-D

[countryfan2004]

Well, I'm gonna field this one real quick, cause I woulda defended Piotr the same ways those guys did.

I'm gonna go with Sam Guthrie, personality wise he would be great for Kitty. He may not be able to match her intellectually, but he definitely has combat smarts and street smarts, not to mention that he's a good ole farm boy, he knows how to treat her right and appreciate her. But overall I think Sam would make a good match for her, though I really like him w/ Lila and I would prefer Colossus w/ Kitty.


I agree with this one here...I also always thought Kitty and Paige could be really good friends, and that would be one way to bring them together. Haha.

As for a defning character moment....anything throughout OZT, and a lot for Cannonball around that time, as well as when he worked with Storm in XXM. He got to be a grown up!

Here in X-Men #60, he's tlaking about Graydon Creed:
“Ah know. And there’s no tellin’ what might’ve become of us mutants – or anyone different – if he’d been elected. But it’s so darn sad to realize that one man’s life can be summed up in two words – he hated. Not much of a legacy to leave the world.”

“But the part that upsets me the most – is that the man who was Graydon Creed…he died inside a long time ago. To tell ya the truth, from talking to him…ah don’t know that he ever really lived.”

[mattbib]

THAT, my friends, is the leader of the X-Men. Cannonball's reaction just said what we were all thinking- "Wow."
Your post brought a tear to my eye. :)

[Brian M.]

Your post brought a tear to my eye. :)

There are plenty of great Cyclops moments to show people that he is not just some stiff and stuck up prick. I just gotta thumb through my collection and find them.

[mattbib]

One of the defining moments for Storm, to me anyway, was during a crappy era, but this story still stood out. It was in Uncanny #305. Xavier had Storm steal an exoskeleton that he might use against Magneto. The exchange between Ororo and Charles had kind of cemented Storm as the moral compass of the team; something that I think she continued to be through the end of X-Treme X-Men.

Storm: I have, for the most part, done as you requested. Yet rather than destroy the prototype, I felt the humans should be allowed to defend themselves... to the benefit of the fruit of their labors.

Xavier: I'm uncomfortable with the thought of the governments of the world believing they can take on Magneto.. But I trust your judgement.

Storm: Do you, Charles? I wish I could believe that were so. When you first asked me to leave my home-- my life I had forged in Africa-- I did so because you had me convinced of my greater responsibilities to the world in which I lived. Whether I did so on my own resolve-- or because I had little choice denying any request from the most powerful mind on the planet-- is a question to which I may never know the answer. All I can say for certain- at this very moment in my life-- is that I refuse to allow you, or anyone, to drag me through the mud... to shatter my belief that the X-Men are a force for Good, ultimately for change. I will not allow the world to destroy us-- and more importantly for what we stand for. I will fight for you. Someday, I might dies for you. But do not ever ask me again to steal for you, Professor Xavier. I am an X-Man. And we have to be better than that.

[countryfan2004]

Storm represents the epitome of an X-Man in my eyes, even though I don't really like her much anymore, but after what she said to Cyclops during Aftermath of HOM, I'm liking her again...it's always on and off. She's had a lot of those moments where someone on the team strays away from what the X-Men are supposed to be about. Wolverine has a few of those too. Like here: "Things change. People change. You. Me. Everyone o' us…everyday of our lives. The day ya stop changin' --is the day ya die." (Uncanny X-Men 337)

also when Kitty is going down with Sabretooth to get Jubilee back from Caliban. And also when she confronts Emma in Astonishing X-Men: “The first time I ever met the X-Men, the first day…they were ambushed. And captured. And caged. By you. I learned more about good and evil in that one day than I have ever before or since. I was thirteen. When I think about evil, whenever I think about the concept of evil, yours is the face that I see.” I thought that was pure genius.

[tjarvis]

Storm represents the epitome of an X-Man in my eyes, even though I don't really like her much anymore, but after what she said to Cyclops during Aftermath of HOM, I'm liking her again...it's always on and off.

That's kind of funny, because I had the oppisate reaction, in the sense that I thought it was a great moment for Cyclops. The fact of the matter is that he stood his ground against Storm in a battle of ideologies, and in doing so, became THE leader of the X-men again.

[Brian M.]

That's kind of funny, because I had the oppisate reaction, in the sense that I thought it was a great moment for Cyclops. The fact of the matter is that he stood his ground against Storm in a battle of ideologies, and in doing so, became THE leader of the X-men again.

Yea I saw that aswell. I also saw as not so much an arguement between to two but kinda like two old friends saying goodbye.

[Christopher O]

That's kind of funny, because I had the oppisate reaction, in the sense that I thought it was a great moment for Cyclops. The fact of the matter is that he stood his ground against Storm in a battle of ideologies, and in doing so, became THE leader of the X-men again.
I thought it was a great moment for both characters. Cyclops stood his ground, but Storm also stood hers. She feels her loyalty and devotion have to go to Africa, and he feels his should go to the X-Men. Yeah, he refused her request to send her team, but she didn't really fight it, and she very well could have. They both acted with respect and maturity, and I love that. Both are favorites of mine (Storm being my absolute favorite), and I always enjoy when writers actually portray the two as friends, as Claremont established so long ago.

[The Lucky One]

For those of us who didn't read it- what precisely happened between Cyclops and Storm?

-D

[xakko]

But then Kitty react that way either. There was no "AAAH! You're alive?! Why didn't you tell me?!" or anything.

I'm guessing Claremont is just skipping right over Counter X X-force. Hey, everyone else is.

EDIT: Of course, when it came to "Hey, I'm alive after all!" stuff, Piotr (and the rest of the Aussie era X-Men) aren't exactly innocent in that department either.
That was actually addressed. There was much recrimination about that, except it wasa bunch of Warwolves, IIRC. Kitty and Kurt were waiting for the X-men to make the first move (after discovering they were alive) and one issue ended with them breaking down and contacting their old teammates.

So it was just off-panel. In Kitty's- and Wisdom's- defense, there were many opportunities for Kitty to learn Wisdom was alive. From their interaction with Domino in Cable & Deadpool, for one. Or Sam might've found out, again from Domino, who knew, and passed it on. But Kitty and Wisdom ended badly, and she didn't really show too much regret at his passing.

[Grazzt]

The defining moment for Northstar: His look of horror when Rogue kissed him.

[tangentman]

Emma Frost: Single-handedly putting down Storm, Colossus, and Wolverine in her debut issue; the fight with Phoenix two issues later, which was also VERY MUCH a character-defining moment for Jean.

2. The old "body-swap" with Storm for pure fun.

3. Emma kidnapping Kitty at the same moment the X-Men are whisked away to Beyonder World for the "Secret Wars".

4. Magneto finds an ally in Emma when she agrees to help him telepathically rehabilitate the New Mutants after their traumatic murders and resurrections by the Beyonder. She helps the kids and offers them a standing invitation to her school, while she muses on the victory she won that night by showing herself as more than just a villain for one moment. Shows her deviousness in terms of long-range plotting.

5. Emma thrashing Monet by making her a "lightning rod" for "ambient psychic energy". One of the coolest and least-duplicated Emma power feats.

6. Emma's first transformation into diamond on Genosha; later, Emma arrives in the nick of time to break Cassandra Nova's neck. She SAYS that she only went back for her designer purse.

7. When the X-Men fight Cassie Nova for the final time, Emma masterfully tricks Nova into imprisoning herself in Stuff's alien body.

8. Emma maneuvers Scott into a telepathic affair and later admits her love for him.

[Kirayoshi]

If you had to pick a boyfriend for Kitty other than Colossus & Pete Wisdom, who would it be and why would you choose them? ;)
Sam would be closer to her speed, for many of the reasons Tin Man sighted. Although I'd rather see Sam with either Lila or Rahne.

Or, how's this for novel, actually create a multi-dimensional male lead who isn't a clone of either Piotr or Pete(or Logan while we're on the subject) and build a serious relationship between this new guy and Kitty. Of course, given the new 'no new mutants' edict from Joe's office, I doubt that's gonna happen. Are any mutants out there involved with non-mutants anymore?

And yes, I hear the gripes from those who insist that Piotr and Kitty are 'so over'. And sorry, but Pete and Kitty are just as over, if not more so. I look forward to seeing how Piotr and Kitty reestablish their friendship(whether or not it leads to more) in Joss's second run on AXM.

Besides, from what I hear,
Claremont's gonna hook Pete up with Sage. Hoo-kay.

[xakko]

Sam would be closer to her speed, for many of the reasons Tin Man sighted. Although I'd rather see Sam with either Lila or Rahne.

Or, how's this for novel, actually create a multi-dimensional male lead who isn't a clone of either Piotr or Pete(or Logan while we're on the subject) and build a serious relationship between this new guy and Kitty. Of course, given the new 'no new mutants' edict from Joe's office, I doubt that's gonna happen. Are any mutants out there involved with non-mutants anymore?

Y'know who might be a decent match for Kitty... Matt Murdock. I'm not sure how much older he is... Wisdom's age, I expect. But with her new political aspirations, and their martial arts backgrounds... then again, I haven't been following him for a while, and he seems much, much darker. And Chicago-NY romances just never work out.

Spider-Man would also be decent enough, but he's very taken. And his name's Peter. Shola might be interesting.

[Optimus]

Colossus's came when he defeated Proteus.

Wolverine's was during the Dark Phoenix Saga when he escaped the sewer to rescue the X-Men.

[LoneWolf21]

She also had a few interesting sparks with that one guy in MekaniX, who she helped see the light, and show wahat a witch that Tremain girl was.

[countryfan2004]

That's kind of funny, because I had the oppisate reaction, in the sense that I thought it was a great moment for Cyclops. The fact of the matter is that he stood his ground against Storm in a battle of ideologies, and in doing so, became THE leader of the X-men again.


I never said I didn't think it was a great moment for Cyclops. I was just talking about Storm. I do think it was a great moment for Cyclops too. I just loved that whole conversation. That issue made me love Claremont again. I totally agree with Deux ex Chris.

[Optimus]

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/colossus06.jpg

That's The defining Colosus moment, IMO.

[xakko]

That's The defining Colosus moment, IMO.
Oh yeah, that is truly a wonderful one. He is defending those he cares about.

I like this just as much: http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/colossus14.jpg

[Optimus]

I don't like the riptide one nearly as much. With Proteus Peter didn't kill him, Proteus was killed by his allergy to Peter's metal skin. And Peter had little choce, Proteus was a cancer, for him to live meant others had to die daily. Riptide's murder was too callous and out of character. Peter should never snap another character's neck with his hands.

[xakko]

I don't like the riptide one nearly as much. With Proteus Peter didn't kill him, Proteus was killed by his allergy to Peter's metal skin. And Peter had little choce, Proteus was a cancer, for him to live meant others had to die daily. Riptide's murder was too callous and out of character. Peter should never snap another character's neck with his hands.
Dozens of people were dying at the time. He had just horribly wounded Nightcrawler. Shadowcat had just been seriously wounded. Read the caption: "More screams- from those struck by the spikes and stars that missed Colossus- sounds that, like Riptide's laughter, will haunt Peter Rasputin's memories"

There was no choice- he had to stop Riptide from slaughtering the others and wanted to go exact revenge on Harpoon. To me, this perfectly exemplifies the "righeous rage" of the character. So much power exploding out.

[Optimus]

He had no choice? He had Riptide in his hand. He coudl have knocked him out easily. Killing him was COMPLETELY out of character for Peter and I disliked it.

[xakko]

He had no choice? He had Riptide in his hand. He coudl have knocked him out easily. Killing him was COMPLETELY out of character for Peter and I disliked it.
He knew he would kill Proteus too, hence the phrase "fatal mistake".

But I guess we'll agree to disagree on it. Yours is a great example.

[Optimus]

He knew he would kill Proteus too, hence the phrase "fatal mistake".

But I guess we'll agree to disagree on it. Yours is a great example.


But there was no way to knock out Proteus. There literally were no other options.

[LoneWolf21]

Now, did Piotr snap his neck, or did Riptide, who spins constantly, just snap his own neck becase his head was stuck and his body spinning?

[Kirayoshi]

Y'know who might be a decent match for Kitty... Matt Murdock. I'm not sure how much older he is... Wisdom's age, I expect. But with her new political aspirations, and their martial arts backgrounds... then again, I haven't been following him for a while, and he seems much, much darker. And Chicago-NY romances just never work out.

Spider-Man would also be decent enough, but he's very taken. And his name's Peter. Shola might be interesting.
You have been reading Ultimate Spider-Man, right?

Shola, maybe. Although I wouldn't object to seeing her date a non-mutant.
Assuming that there's a non-mutant left in the MU who isn't a card-carrying member of the Friends of Humanity.

Matt Murdock's even older than Pete. He's been a lawyer for years, was attending law school around the same time that Reed and friends hitched a ride on a rocket. I'd say mid-thirties. Plus he's married to Milla, and from what I've seen of Bendis' final arc, he and Milla look like they're getting back together.

[steve2275]

JUGGERNAUT turns a new leaf
whenever that was

[DDM]

Rogue's fateful encounter with Ms. Marvel in Avengers Annual #10 when Rogue permanently absorbed Carol Danvers psyche & powers into her own mind & body; Rogue never really understood the consequences until a few months later when she would get confused between herself & Carol Danvers. Since Carol Danvers is the polar opposite of Rogue, the torment was even magnified for both women. Furthermore, the turning point for Rogue is Uncanny X-Men #171 when Xavier accepts Rogue into the school. Rogue's cost to Carol is shown in Uncanny X-Men #182 when Rogue manifests Carol Danvers personality for the first time to rescue Michael Rossi--Carol's ex-boyfriend--from Hellfire Club double agents posing as SHIELD agents. The Carol Danvers personality did not surface again until Uncanny X-Men #235-238 when Wolverine & Rogue were prisoners of Genosha. From Uncanny X-Men #239-247, Carol's personality would surface if Rogue was knocked unconscious. However, Rogue's final confrontation with Ms. Marvel is Uncanny X-Men #269 when Rogue gets her wish to be separated from Carol Danvers at last; unfortunately, both women shared on one lifeforce. "Ms. Marvel"'s powers were also cut in half & made her more succeptable to be corrupted by the Shadow King. I believe Rogue lost her abilitiy to be resistant to telepaths when the Ms. Marvel psyche intergrated into Rogue's mind; it would explain why the Shadow King was able to corrupt Rogue in Uncanny X-Men #278...

[fishtaco]

Phoenix, in Uncanny X-Men 199. That was a freakin powerful scene.

[Hombre]

Phoenix, in Uncanny X-Men 199. That was a freakin powerful scene.

I probably need to re-read it. I'm not clear as to how she turned into Phoenix, exactly, did she just will herself to, by tapping the holempathic crystal with her telepathic powers? Did she have a latent Phoenix power as a result of her parentage?

[Henry T.]

I probably need to re-read it. I'm not clear as to how she turned into Phoenix, exactly, did she just will herself to, by tapping the holempathic crystal with her telepathic powers? Did she have a latent Phoenix power as a result of her parentage?

She claimed the power from Jean Grey's essence in the crystal as her birthright since she was Jean's daughter.

Though later due to the '86 retcon...

They ended up saying that Rachel had already been possessed by the Phoenix Force as she came into this universe from the timestream. It gave her false memories of her future. Originally Rachel was the daughter of Jean who had become Phoenix but they changed it saying that Rachel was the daughter of a Jean who never was Phoenix.

However, since Jean is now back to having been and being Phoenix and having it apart of her genetic mutation.... most likely Rachel inherited this connection from Jean.

I believe that Claremont wrote in an early Excalibur issue that Rachel had inherited the power from her mother, Jean. In Classic #43 Claremont wrote that Jean came from the Phoenix and that it came from her. He wrote that the power belonged to her and the power would also come to her children.

I believe in Cross Time Caper, they showed Rachel as a child manifesting a phoenix like effect.

Jean was shown manifesting the Phoenix as a child in the Classic X-Men #42 story. It was a story about Scott as a child but showed Jean as a child on the last page. When in Phoenix Endsong #4 the Phoenix tells Scott that he dreamed of her in the orphanage, they were referencing the Classic #42 story.

[Hombre]

Thanks, very informative. Having the Phoenix be an extraneous force that replaced Jean goes against the meaning of the original stories, so I'm glad they sort of put that aside.

[DDM]

I probably need to re-read it. I'm not clear as to how she turned into Phoenix, exactly, did she just will herself to, by tapping the holempathic crystal with her telepathic powers? Did she have a latent Phoenix power as a result of her parentage?

Reread Uncanny X-Men #184-209, Annual 9, X-Men-Alpha Flight #1-2. Rachel inherited her mother's ability to wield the Phoenix. Selene sensed the Phoenix in Rachel in Uncanny X-Men #184; this is the reason why Selene wanted to make Rachel her heir, a psychic vampire slave. The Beyonder notes Rachel has the "powers of a new born star" in Uncanny X-Men #196. Rachel manifests a Phoenix claw in X-Men-Alpha Flight #1-2, yet this story takes place just before Uncanny X-Men #194 before Rachel became Phoenix. Rachel just used the Shi'ar Holempathic Matrix Crystal to focus her latent Phoenix powers into realization, but Rachel always had them within her since she was created in Uncanny X-Men #141-142.

[Hombre]

Reread Uncanny X-Men #184-209, Annual 9, X-Men-Alpha Flight #1-2. Rachel inherited her mother's ability to wield the Phoenix. Selene sensed the Phoenix in Rachel in Uncanny X-Men #184; this is the reason why Selene wanted to make Rachel her heir, a psychic vampire slave. The Beyonder notes Rachel has the "powers of a new born star" in Uncanny X-Men #196. Rachel manifests a Phoenix claw in X-Men-Alpha Flight #1-2, yet this story takes place just before Uncanny X-Men #194 before Rachel became Phoenix. Rachel just used the Shi'ar Holempathic Matrix Crystal to focus her latent Phoenix powers into realization, but Rachel always had them within her since she was created in Uncanny X-Men #141-142.

Very clear, thanks. Again, I can only remark how the "cocoon" retcon really did little justice to the story CC had been building up to that point. I suspect he's got used to that sort of thing, by now. And as I was saying a few months ago, it seems like the secondary mutation thing envisioned - I gather - by Morrison for the Jean/Phoenix situation sort of goes back to the original idea.