Wonder Woman Cancelled

[TCJohnson]

I am just surprised there is not more of a reaction to Wonder Woman being cancelled.

[IamtheRock3]

didnt know it was

arent sales decent. Didnt it increase

anyway think people figuring it just restarting soon after

[Young Avenger]

It's because it won't stay cancelled for long. Wonder Woman is one of DC's "Big Three". No way will this book stay cancelled for long. I think DC will relaunch Wonder Woman with Donna Troy taking up the mantle.

[Bicycle-Repairman]

Wasn't there an arrangement with William Moulton Marston that if DC stopped publishing Wonder Woman, the rights to the character would revert back to his estate (which is one reason why Wonder Woman made it through the 1950s without being cancelled)? If this was indeed the case, have the terms of the agreement since expired?

[Patience]

I think this was already announced that Wonder Woman was getting ended, and then relaunched at #1 OYL. I think it was in Lying in the Gutters

[Hawaii Business Magazine]

Wasn't their an arrangement with William Moulton Marston that if DC stopped publishing Wonder Woman, the rights to the character would revert back to his estate (which is one reason why Wonder Woman made it through the 1950s without being cancelled)? If this was indeed the case, have the terms of the agreement since expired?

All-Star Wonder Woman is on its way, so DC will still be publishing a Wonder Woman title.

[Paul Newell]

Wasn't their an arrangement with William Moulton Marston that if DC stopped publishing Wonder Woman, the rights to the character would revert back to his estate (which is one reason why Wonder Woman made it through the 1950s without being cancelled)? If this was indeed the case, have the terms of the agreement since expired?
Yep. They have.

[Paradox]

Technically not so much "expired" as DC ended up just buying the rights outright eventually.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I am just surprised there is not more of a reaction to Wonder Woman being cancelled.

I think the lack of reaction probably reflects the fact that nobody thinks the book will stay cancelled for more than a couple months.

[Davmeister84]

I think the lack of reaction probably reflects the fact that nobody thinks the book will stay cancelled for more than a couple months.

Months? Hell, maybe -one- month at most.

Although I could see them rebooting Wonder Woman with Donna Troy while exploring what happened with Diana in "52".

[The Adventurer]

Hey Dav.

And...Yeah, clearly this is an attempt to reboot with OYL and give Wondy some new dirrection.

[Kriminal]

DC has handled this character badly, that much is true, but I think they're also aware (wary) of the fact that there is very little support for her among comics' primarily male readership (which is ironic because that *is* who she was created for).

People like to talk up Rucka's run, but aside from a few bright spots (WW writing a controversial memoir, the content of which remains mysterious but *suggestive*) Rucka has been nothing special to the book, and pretty much drudges up the same boring shite readers have come to expect from the title.

DC needs to bring on a writer who can bring some spark, sexiness, and imagination to WW, someone who can roll with the colorful nature of the character's world while not being slavishly and annoyingly devoted to it (I'm looking at you Geoff Johns).

Maybe when DC is finshed w/ all of this Infinite Crisis nonsense I might, just might, have the desire to pick up something outside of Seven Soldiers, B&R:AS, and their Vertigo stuff.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Although I hate to say it, because its said too much by too many, but....well, just give the character to Morrison and see if he can figure something out to do with her. Because everything else they've tried with the character has failed to catch on.

Although, considering his Wonder Woman was dull as dirt in his JLA run, maybe even Morrison can't make WW interesting...

I dunno, something radical needs to be done. And simply repeating Sacrifice over and over ain't it. She's not the Punisher.

[the heckler]

i think she is goin to get a relaunch after crisis.. i think most everyone assumes that thats why its not like a surprise or anything

[TCJohnson]

I think this was already announced that Wonder Woman was getting ended, and then relaunched at #1 OYL. I think it was in Lying in the Gutters


Lying in the GUtters is a rumor column. Nothing is announced there and it is not always correct.

[Kevinroc]

Well, I think it's safe to assume that WW will be relaunched post Infinite Crisis. That's what most people are expecting.

The rumor is Allan Heinberg (Young Avengers) will be writing the relaunched Wonder Woman title. But that's definitely a rumor right now.

[TCJohnson]

Wow. Heinberg is my favorite writer, WOnder Woman is one of my least favorite characters of all time. They found the one project for Heinberg that I am completely not interested in.

[Indigo Al]

Donna as Wonder Woman would be a cheap ploy that won't last for more than 6 months or so.

[Justin D.]

Gee, I think the lack of reaction to Wonder Woman's cancellation might just have something to do with the fact that news about it hasn't gotten farther than a few message boards because the news came out of leaked solicits for February.

[Patience]

Lying in the GUtters is a rumor column. Nothing is announced there and it is not always correct.

Well, my chocie of words was poor, but a rumor like that getting leaked sure kills the surprise doesn't it?

[Xero Kaiser]

Although I hate to say it, because its said too much by too many, but....well, just give the character to Morrison and see if he can figure something out to do with her. Because everything else they've tried with the character has failed to catch on.

Although, considering his Wonder Woman was dull as dirt in his JLA run, maybe even Morrison can't make WW interesting...

Yeah, a lot of times I hear things like, "there are no bad characters/stories, just bad writers". But, sometimes things don't catch on for a reason. I don't think that bringing in ___ writer is gonna work any miracles, because nobody's paying attention anyway. Just seems like most people find the overall character of WW uninteresting.

[K'Nort]

1. I didn't know it was cancelled.
2. I don't read Wonder Woman.
3. It's a title that is never really cancelled, just rebooted.

And I find it particularly interesting when writers I really like are given a character or book I really dislike because that gives me the best-possible way to really see what I like about their writing -- or maybe don't after all.

[Kriminal]

The rumor is Allan Heinberg (Young Avengers) will be writing the relaunched Wonder Woman title. But that's definitely a rumor right now.


Allan Heinberg Newsarama interview, just before the release of Young Avengers.

In fact, my very first comic book was Wonder Woman #212 - which featured
the first of her twelve labors to rejoin the JLA after having abandoned her Wonder Woman identity to practice martial arts and wear a white pant-suit. It was a perfect introduction to the character.


Then, in 1994, I was understudying in Neil Simon's Laughter on the 23rd Floor on Broadway when an off-Broadway theatre company, Manhattan Class Company, decided to produce a one-act play I'd written called The
Amazon's Voice - which had a pronounced Wonder Woman theme running through it.


Though I don't read Young Avengers, I do appreciate that he digs WW, however something about this rumor bugs me.
Mischa Barton is apparently pining to play WW on the big screen, Heinberg produces her show, for a big WW fan like myself...this is a potential problem.

No way in hell should Barton get this role, I'm already uneasy about Joss Whedon's involvement, Barton's casting would be laughable and would totally kill my interest.

[Deathstroke]

If nothing else it takes a title off my pull list.

[TCJohnson]

Gee, I think the lack of reaction to Wonder Woman's cancellation might just have something to do with the fact that news about it hasn't gotten farther than a few message boards because the news came out of leaked solicits for February.

You know, I just made an oversvation. No reason to be condenscending.

[Captain Jim]

Unless I missed it, nowhere on this thread do a see a link to any source for this claim. :confused:

[Gingold]

Unless I missed it, nowhere on this thread do a see a link to any source for this claim. :confused:

The soliciations for February were accidentally made available online for a while yesterday. They've been taken down since. If they're to be believed, the February issue has been solicicted as the final issue of WW.

[TCJohnson]

Unless I missed it, nowhere on this thread do a see a link to any source for this claim. :confused:


WONDER WOMAN #226
Written by Greg Rucka
Art by Cliff Richards & Ray Snyder
Cover by J.G. Jones
Astonishing final issue! With the universe in turmoil, Diana prepares to face her ultimate challenge. Looking back on her relationship with Superman from the way it began to its recent turmoil, will she find a way to rebuild what she’s lost? Final issue.
On sale February 22 • 32 pg, FC, $2.50 US

It was on silverbullet's website, but they took them down. Lex copied them down here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=91770

Gotham Knights and Gotham Central are also being cancelled.

[Captain Jim]

everything else they've tried with the character has failed to catch on.

Would you really say that Perez's run failed to catch on? My recollection is that it was quite successful, for a couple of years anyway.

[Captain Jim]

I think DC will relaunch Wonder Woman with Donna Troy taking up the mantle.

That rumor's been around for awhile and Rucka has specifically denied it.

[Justin D.]

You know, I just made an oversvation. No reason to be condenscending.

You're right. I shouldn't have had the word "Gee" there. Sorry.

[TCJohnson]

It's all good. :)

And when I posted this I hadn't realized that the solicits had been leaked. I thought it had been officially announced. My bad with that.

[Nate Grey]

That rumor's been around for awhile and Rucka has specifically denied it.

Thank goodness. Regardless of what is wrong with Wonder Woman, I really don't think THAT is that answer. Donna Troy is her own character in her own right. Hey, what about a Donna Troy series? Hmmm...

[Titan76]

Allan Heinberg Newsarama interview, just before the release of Young Avengers.

In fact, my very first comic book was Wonder Woman #212 - which featured
the first of her twelve labors to rejoin the JLA after having abandoned her Wonder Woman identity to practice martial arts and wear a white pant-suit. It was a perfect introduction to the character.


Then, in 1994, I was understudying in Neil Simon's Laughter on the 23rd Floor on Broadway when an off-Broadway theatre company, Manhattan Class Company, decided to produce a one-act play I'd written called The
Amazon's Voice - which had a pronounced Wonder Woman theme running through it.


Though I don't read Young Avengers, I do appreciate that he digs WW, however something about this rumor bugs me.
Mischa Barton is apparently pining to play WW on the big screen, Heinberg produces her show, for a big WW fan like myself...this is a potential problem.

No way in hell should Barton get this role, I'm already uneasy about Joss Whedon's involvement, Barton's casting would be laughable and would totally kill my interest.
Mischa Barton has no chance in getting that role. Whedon has said he would prefer an unknown name to play Wonder Woman. The rumor however is that Whedon might give the role of WW to Morena Baccarin, the woman who was in his movie Serenity. He really likes her and thinks she has the look and character to play Wonder Woman.

[Kirayoshi]

I still say that Diana will survive IC...and during 52 she'll return to Themyscria, seal the island from the outside world and vow never to set foot in "Patriarch's World" ever again. Which will give the writers an out to bring her back a year or so later.

Uh, I've only been half-following WW of late, and I have a question regarding Rucka's run on the book. During the Medusa story-arc, wasn't Diana funding a risky operation to remove the Silver Swan cybernetics from Vanessa Capitelis's body? I just wonder how Vanessa was doing, whether she survived the operation or not.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Mischa Barton has no chance in getting that role. Whedon has said he would prefer an unknown name to play Wonder Woman. The rumor however is that Whedon might give the role of WW to Morena Baccarin, the woman who was in his movie Serenity. He really likes her and thinks she has the look and character to play Wonder Woman.

Ugh.
Having Whedon at the helm is bad enough, but then I hear this and I wish that no WW film was made at all.
Morena Baccarin is an even worse choice than Barton.
Since we are stuck with Whedon, I hope nobody from the cast of his Firefly/Serenity property gets involved in the WW film.
First Firefly tanked on TV , and now Serenity came and went and was ignored by audiences, off the top ten and forgotten after two weeks.(They will JINX the WW film :D )


Seriously, Baccarin is too slight and fragile-looking to play the Amazonian Princess, not to mention that IMO she doesn't have a stunning, jaw-dropping beauty that I imagine Diana to have...

[tangentman]

I still say that Diana will survive IC...and during 52 she'll return to Themyscria, seal the island from the outside world and vow never to set foot in "Patriarch's World" ever again. Which will give the writers an out to bring her back a year or so later.

Uh, I've only been half-following WW of late, and I have a question regarding Rucka's run on the book. During the Medusa story-arc, wasn't Diana funding a risky operation to remove the Silver Swan cybernetics from Vanessa Capitelis's body? I just wonder how Vanessa was doing, whether she survived the operation or not.

Vanessa underwent a successful, if extremely high-risk, operation which removed the Silver Swan cybernetics. Dr. Leslie Anderson, former business partner and friend to Veronica Cale, performed the operation. Because of her own research following the operation, Leslie has parted ways with Cale.

[artemisboy]

Although Greg Rucka confirmed that the comic will be relaunched and not rebooted, he did also specify that the Wonder Woman title will remain in Diana's court, not Donna Troy's.

The only thing about the relaunch is that I have a VERY storng belief that Diana is gonna go the secret identity route and not go as just "Diana of Themyscira". She's had the secret identity Pre-Crisis but I grew up with that part of the mythos from the television series, but in all honesty I have a problem with a character who is all about the truth (and in many cases forcing the truth out of people against their will) now hiding behind a lie that is a secret identity. It works for Superman and Batman but I'm gonna have a very hard time seeing Diana going "the way of the boys" all these years later.

- Peter

[Bard]

Although Greg Rucka confirmed that the comic will be relaunched and not rebooted, he did also specify that the Wonder Woman title will remain in Diana's court, not Donna Troy's.

The only thing about the relaunch is that I have a VERY storng belief that Diana is gonna go the secret identity route and not go as just "Diana of Themyscira". She's had the secret identity Pre-Crisis but I grew up with that part of the mythos from the television series, but in all honesty I have a problem with a character who is all about the truth (and in many cases forcing the truth out of people against their will) now hiding behind a lie that is a secret identity. It works for Superman and Batman but I'm gonna have a very hard time seeing Diana going "the way of the boys" all these years later.

- Peter

http://webpages.charter.net/connectingzone/agree/17.gif Iremember you from the late90s when I posted on the DCMBs. Great to see you around!

Now remember, during that particular era, we were still under the threat of cold war, and Diana and Hippolyta were concerned about what Man's World would do if they knew too much about WW and Paradise Island. So naturally, she adopted the Diana Prince persona. I kinda enjoyed it. She wasn't really lying about herself, just no revealing another part of her identity.

[K'Nort]

Okay, I hate emoticons, but that one Bard just put up there is totally cool.

[jadegiant77]

Well, I think Rucka pretty much killed the book with all that West Wing crap at the Thermyscrian embassy. I mean, who wants to see Di as a diplomat? I was also pissed that we only saw brief excerpts from Di's book. They need to relaunch with a new writer(and please, don't let it be Perez. If i wanted sappy melodrama, I'd watch Lifetime...which I do. :p ).

[artemisboy]

http://webpages.charter.net/connectingzone/agree/17.gif Iremember you from the late90s when I posted on the DCMBs. Great to see you around!

Hey, thanks for remembering me! (And for glossing over my grossly misspelled post.)

As for the secret I.D., I kinda do see it as lying as Diana never grew up with a last name. The fact that she called herself Prince, and even back in the day BOUGHT those credentials from another woman who's real name was Diana Prince, said a lot. She was basically going about town in a disguise and going under a false persona which really belonged to someone else. The whole "seeker of truth" angle really got marred there for me. I mean, there's a whole audience out there who are foaming at the mouth for the Diana Prince secret I.D. mythos to return and I'm not gonna fight it. I just think that the secret I.D. doesn't do service to someone who holds truth so highly.

- Peter

[Cayman]

So what do you think DC will call the relaunch? Will it still be Wonder Woman, or will it be Adventures of Wonder Woman? Wonder Woman: Confidential? Wonder-Woman: Neck-Snappin' Action? New Wonder Woman?

Cay

[Mike Smith]

Is this a tell-tell sign that Donna is going to take up WW crown?

[artemisboy]

Is this a tell-tell sign that Donna is going to take up WW crown?

Nope. Greg Rucka already confirmed that Donna will NOT be Wonder Woman. That Wonder Woman will always be Diana.

- Peter

[hoopoe]

Here's hoping someone just totally overhauls her whole origin. And I do like the secret ID stuff. I remember all of the espionage stuff from the 70s issues and they were a lot of fun.

I think they valiantly tried to uphold the whole honest and truth and justice thing for a long time for Diana, but the fact is - that's just not something humans can relate to or find interesting. We all make mistakes and we are never as true as we want to be - and reading about a person of complete and utter perfection (up until the neck-snapping) is just not interesting. Bring on the character flaws!

[Ontir]

There's a symmetry to it all. The old Wonder Woman title ended during Crisis, and the current series ends during Infinite Crisis, to be re-launched, and hopefully (and given what we've seen of "IC" thus far, rather likely) the new "WW" will be closer to her original roots than the more fantasy based character of the last 10 years. I'm definitely picking up #1!

[davids]

Just speculation




OK, acording to the preview Wonder woman will try and regain her relationship with the big blue boy scout? Could the boy scout slip his halo and do the horizontal Mambo with a certain amazon princess?

Man of Steel feet of Clay? And the female lump of clay AKA Gumbys sister finally acting like a woman?

No wonder Ka-l does not aprove of this Superman, shame shame.

Guess that thousand year trip to Vahalla finally reached a human conclussion.

What the hell do I know, I'm a 54 year old fan boy sith a sick mind. Just dont tell may wife!

[Titan Slade]

I think the lack of reaction probably reflects the fact that nobody thinks the book will stay cancelled for more than a couple months.

Not for me, WW is Boooorrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnng with a capital B. No big loss.

[Ontir]

We already know that a new #1 is on its way. I've heard something to the affect of Hughes doing the art, but have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA if that's real, or fanboy dreaming.

[Kriminal]

We already know that a new #1 is on its way. I've heard something to the affect of Hughes doing the art, but have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA if that's real, or fanboy dreaming.

Rumor was that Whedon & Hughes would be the creative team on All-Star Wonder Woman.
I'm no Whedon fan, but at least one half of that equation, rumor or not, is very appealing.

[KET]

We already know that a new #1 is on its way. I've heard something to the effect of Hughes doing the art, but have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA if that's real, or fanboy dreaming.


I think AH! is supposed to be working on an ALL STAR WONDER WOMAN series. Seems like I saw a rumor somewhere that the Dodsons were going to be on the new regular ongoing WW title.

The only speculation I have with this utterly PREDICTABLE relaunch is whether DC will put Diana in a belly-baring outfit (like they've done with almost all of their superheroines lately).

[Paradox]

El Santo gets jumpy:

I liked Rucka's Wonder Woman. I don't care about whatever "safer", less threatening version of her they come up with, I won't be buying it.

Slow down. We know very little. Do we even know that the relaunch WON'T be with Rucka?

[El Santo]

Slow down. We know very little. Do we even know that the relaunch WON'T be with Rucka?

It's all but confirmed that they're undoing what he did. If they were continuing with Rucka, why would they end the series?

[PatrickG]

With the rumor that the Superman titles will be reorganized back to their pre-Crisis titles with ADEVENTURES OF SUPERMAN becoming SUPERMAN again...

Do you think Diana's book might return with the old numbering with #330?

[KET]

Slow down. We know very little. Do we even know that the relaunch WON'T be with Rucka?


I think the rumor that's going around is that Allan Heinberg (The O.C., Young Avengers, co-wrote JLA "Crisis of Conscience" story arc with Johns) will be the new WW scribe.

[PatrickG]

It's all but confirmed that they're undoing what he did. If they were continuing with Rucka, why would they end the series?

And if they are, don't you think Rucka KNEW this and wrote his story accordingly as an architect of 52 and Infinite Crisis?

[Cayman]

Should Diana's power be cut back a bit? Removing her power of flight, for example?

Cay

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I think Diana´s powers are just fine the level they are right now, she should be on Superman´s level..

What needs to be tweaked is her personality, as some have already pointed out, she´s too perfect and ideal, there´s no empathy with the readers since they can´t identify themselves with someone who has no flaws, doesn´t make mistakes and is never wrong, lies or has self-doubts.

Case in point, she´s been around for 20 years and she´s never been involved with anyone? What, writers are affraid that an emotional entanglement would be a sign of weakness?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Would you really say that Perez's run failed to catch on? My recollection is that it was quite successful, for a couple of years anyway.

For a couple of years, yeah, until Perez's initial burst of creativity ran out of steam and the abysmal War of the Gods landed with a thud.

The Perez reboot worked for a few years, just like the Byrne Superman reboot worked for a few years...and then everyone noticed how empty the characters had become stripped of much of their basic coolness. Then stupid stunt after stupid stunt to either try to drum up interest.

Not that I didn't enjoy the star-spangled thong or the Mullet of Steel.

[Lonewalker]

Well, I've never been a fan of Wondy, but still, she's part of DCU's icons.

But if sales aren't good, well...

[davids]

Is superman going to hit her with that Tank? Or is he preventing that tank from running her over?

Or does the cover have nothing to do with what is inside? {my quess!}

NEXT QUESTION NOW THAT IT IS CANCLED WILL THE ww RUN SECONF VOLUME INCREASE OR DECREASE IN VALUE? i got them all.

[artemisboy]

Depends on how many autographs you have on how many issues. ;)

- Peter

[El Santo]

Should Diana's power be cut back a bit? Removing her power of flight, for example?

Cay

Yeah. What's up with her having powers anyway?! Doesn't she know her place anymore? She's supposed to prance around in star-spangled panties and tie herself up a lot. And make Superman a sammich, dammit. :mad:


(the above is sarcasm)

[El Santo]

I think Diana´s powers are just fine the level they are right now, she should be on Superman´s level..

What needs to be tweaked is her personality, as some have already pointed out, she´s too perfect and ideal, there´s no empathy with the readers since they can´t identify themselves with someone who has no flaws, doesn´t make mistakes and is never wrong, lies or has self-doubts.

Case in point, she´s been around for 20 years and she´s never been involved with anyone? What, writers are affraid that an emotional entanglement would be a sign of weakness?

Umm....she's had plenty of flaws, setbacks, and relationship (non romantic) issues lately. Where have you been?

[Cayman]

Yeah. What's up with her having powers anyway?! Doesn't she know her place anymore? She's supposed to prance around in star-spangled panties and tie herself up a lot. And make Superman a sammich, dammit. :mad:


(the above is sarcasm)

That would violate her established continuity. She has a minotaur to make Superman his sammiches.

Cay

[Ontir]

I've heard nothing to suggest that DC is trying to create some "safer" version of Wonder Woman. It seems that they are taking her, like the rest of the DC line of books, back to something along the lines of the Silver Age, or maybe even more Golden Age based. Frankly, Earth 2 was always far more interesting than Earth 1, and when friends and I were coming up with our own "merge the Earths" ideas years before Crisis on Infinite Earths, I always insisted that E2 be the basis, for just that reason.

I would very much enjoy a Wonder Woman who bares a greater resemblance to her original version. While that character wasn't Gloria Steinem, she was a remarkably self-possessed woman for her era. More along the "New Women" with whom Eleanor Roosevelt was involved. A return to what the Amazons were, a pinnacle of spiritual, physical, and intellectual development, on an island that had known nothing but peace for 3,000 years, and was scientifically evolved would be a great improvement over the stagnant, fantasy-based society of the Perez era, which, like the "Byrne-d" Superman worked only as long as they were there to keep the book operational. Since their departures (especially since Perez' artisitc departure), both properties have floundered, with brief moments of inspiration.

The original Wonder Woman was no weakling. She was capable of running 100 mph, and could, and frequently did, lift boulders, bend iron and steel, as well as deflecting bullets. Her skill with her lasso was unequaled, and she was telepathic, something that's been lost for years. One of the other great things about her, was her Invisible Plane (prop or jet). We've all heard the joke about, "Look, there's a stunning brunette, squatting at 20,000'!" The problem isn't that the plane was stupid, but that the visual representation of the plane wasn't updated. Now, as we are in an era of stealth craft, that vehicle is less fiction, and more science. The fact that this woman possessed and operated an aircraft that Steve Trevor could only wish he had, said a great deal about who the Amazons are, and what they're capable of. To return that to the series would only strengthen it. I've been saying for quite some time now, that Wonder Woman needed her own Birthright, and it appears she's about to get it!

[El Santo]

Wow. Running 100mph? Lifting Boulders? Why, such a woman could almost be worthy of membership in the Great Lakes Avengers with powers like that. Silver Age Wonder Woman sucked, period. The modern one, the one we're reading about now, is more human, more interesting, and more powerful. Invisible planes are retarded. What would she do with it? It doesn't have weapons. You're going to see her as soon as she lands and gets out of the plane. It's an idiotic gimmick with no practical use whatsover.

But hey, if you want your "spunky homemaker" Wonder Woman back, you're going to get your wish. Just enough of a personality to separate her from ***** but not so much as to possibly distract you from focusing on Superman and the rest of the "real superheroes".

Edited by Captain Jim

[tangentman]

I think that Wonder Woman's lack of romance might be more a matter of cliche-breaking. DC didn't want a male Lois Lane when Wonder Woman was rebooted back in '87. Diana cares more about saving the world than landing a man (or woman). How many of us have known career women who find fulfillment in their jobs? Why wouldn't anyone relate to Diana as being an over-achiever and workaholic? There are plenty of both types in the real world.

[Paul Newell]

Wow. Running 100mph? Lifting Boulders? Why, such a woman could almost be worthy of membership in the Great Lakes Avengers with powers like that. Silver Age Wonder Woman sucked, period. The modern one, the one we're reading about now, is more human, more interesting, and more powerful. Invisible planes are retarded. What would she do with it? It doesn't have weapons. You're going to see her as soon as she lands and gets out of the plane. It's an idiotic gimmick with no practical use whatsover.

But hey, if you want your "spunky homemaker" Wonder Woman back, you're going to get your wish. Just enough of a personality to separate her from ***** but not so much as to possibly distract you from focusing on Superman and the rest of the "real superheroes".

A DC insider are we? You seem to know an awful lot about what they are gonna do when there is absolutey no public information about what their plans are.

[Ontir]

Wow. Running 100mph? Lifting Boulders? Why, such a woman could almost be worthy of membership in the Great Lakes Avengers with powers like that. Silver Age Wonder Woman sucked, period. The modern one, the one we're reading about now, is more human, more interesting, and more powerful. Invisible planes are retarded. What would she do with it? It doesn't have weapons. You're going to see her as soon as she lands and gets out of the plane. It's an idiotic gimmick with no practical use whatsover.

But hey, if you want your "spunky homemaker" Wonder Woman back, you're going to get your wish. Just enough of a personality to separate her from ***** but not so much as to possibly distract you from focusing on Superman and the rest of the "real superheroes".

The power-level I described is in fact, on parr with both Superman and Captain Marvel of that era. Hardly a wimp, and further, there's nothing in any of it to suggest she was a "homemaker," or a breasted-vaccuum cleaner. BTW, have you ever tried to make a home, and raise children? I know my cousin has found it about 6 times harder than any job for which she ever got a paycheck!

The Invisible Plane is, as pointed out previously, more fact now, than fiction. It didn't have weapons on board, because it didnt' really need them. It was nearly impossible to find, and was a great deal faster than anything else (mechanical) in the air. Getting rid of it, is like getting rid of the Batmobile, or the 2nd Blue Beetle's Bug - just daft!

BTW, I believe there is at least a strong urging to keep your posts to a PG-13 demeanor.

Also, there is a hyphen in the word "super-heroes."

[Xero Kaiser]

One of the other great things about her, was her Invisible Plane (prop or jet). We've all heard the joke about, "Look, there's a stunning brunette, squatting at 20,000'!" The problem isn't that the plane was stupid, but that the visual representation of the plane wasn't updated. Now, as we are in an era of stealth craft, that vehicle is less fiction, and more science

That plane was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen

[davids]

Depends on how many autographs you have on how many issues. ;)

my WW volume one is complete from 1959 to 1966
superman action and the rest of my superman comics go back to 1958 and is almost complete!

no autographs and none of my kids chocolate buger spit covered finger prints on them either!

[El Santo]

The power-level I described is in fact, on parr with both Superman and Captain Marvel of that era. Hardly a wimp, and further, there's nothing in any of it to suggest she was a "homemaker," or a breasted-vaccuum cleaner. BTW, have you ever tried to make a home, and raise children? I know my cousin has found it about 6 times harder than any job for which she ever got a paycheck!

Homemaking is not easy. It's also not what Wonder Woman should be doing, IMO. Some of you seem to look back fondly on the days of her being the JLA secretary. I do not.

Also, I'd like to point out that Superman at that time was lifting a lot more than boulders, and could run faster than 100mph. He was faster than a locomotive, and trains have been running above 100mph for several decades.
The Invisible Plane is, as pointed out previously, more fact now, than fiction. It didn't have weapons on board, because it didnt' really need them. It was nearly impossible to find, and was a great deal faster than anything else (mechanical) in the air. Getting rid of it, is like getting rid of the Batmobile, or the 2nd Blue Beetle's Bug - just daft!

It's much slower than Superman, or nearly any other flying superhero. I don't recall it being any faster than the Bat-Plane. It's obsolete at this point in comics. As you pointed out, real-life technology has caught up with it; it's not really all that "super" anymore. Giving her the power of flight was the best thing DC has done for the character.

[Tom]

Homemaking is not easy. It's also not what Wonder Woman should be doing, IMO. Some of you seem to look back fondly on the days of her being the JLA secretary. I do not.
Seriously, what are you talking about? What's all this "homemaker" stuff?

[stealthwise]

I like the concept of Wonder Woman, I really do. I've enjoyed her in JLU and New Frontier, and Rucka's run started well, but went awry in my eyes. I think that the problem with Wonder Woman is that she lacks definining characteristics that aren't superficial.

I hope that Whedon's movie provides something a bit more positive than star-spangled panties to identify the character with.

[Kriminal]

El Santo, what exactly is your derision based upon? There aren't too many people that will argue that this character hasn't been handled badly, but you seem intent on engaging in baseless invective.

[El Santo]

On the contrary, I *love* the way Rucka has handled the character. I've never liked her prior to his run on the book. I thought she was useless on the Superfriends, not much improved in Justice League/JLU, and more or less a background character in the JLA comics. The fact that so many people are looking forward to the demolishing of everything Rucka built for the character in favor of the bland, domesticated, boring crap that came before is just shocking to me.

[davids]

In WW 226 Superman fianlly has to do away with the now infamous Killer amazon. In a titantic battle The man of steel Kills the Amazon princess.

Only the whole thing is a fake, Kal and Diana are friends again [with the help of Lois] Diana goes back home to rule pardise island as it;s queen [untill the world needs her]

and donna takes over being wonder woman for a while!

HOW'S THAT SOUND?

[ratzo]

As long as we're talking about the plane, I was wondering: isn't it basically a regular plane with a cloaking device? It's not invisible all the time, right? Because that would be dumb.

[El Santo]

The plane is always invisible. And any idea that involves Donna Troy as Wonder Woman is something I'm against. Also, the Amazons aren't ruled by a queen anymore; they established a republic ruled by Phillipus and Artemis.

[Kriminal]

On the contrary, I *love* the way Rucka has handled the character. I've never liked her prior to his run on the book. I thought she was useless on the Superfriends, not much improved in Justice League/JLU, and more or less a background character in the JLA comics. The fact that so many people are looking forward to the demolishing of everything Rucka built for the character in favor of the bland, domesticated, boring crap that came before is just shocking to me.

I'm not sure if everyone is looking for that at all, I'm certainly not.

I've always adored the character on a conceptual level, but I've always wanted her potential to be fully realized, and so far we've had but glimpses and shimmers of that potential.

I want a little spark, a little pizzazz, an updating of the independent, cheeky, and somewhat kinky Wonder Woman that William Moulton Marston originally conceived, before "Wertham Fever" turned her into a secretary for the JLA.

Rucka's run has, in my opinion, been middling, well intentioned, but ultimately bland and uninteresting. Writers tend to take the character deadly "seriously" as a feminist role model, and that seems to include treating the character in an asexual manner; I feel this is a mistake that has been constantly repeated, and even Rucka doesn't escape this.

[heystacy]

Question: Which creative team would we like to see on WW?

[El Santo]

I'm not sure if everyone is looking for that at all, I'm certainly not.

I've always adored the character on a conceptual level, but I've always wanted her potential to be fully realized, and so far we've had but glimpses and shimmers of that potential.

I want a little spark, a little pizzazz, an updating of the independent, cheeky, and somewhat kinky Wonder Woman that William Moulton Marston originally conceived, before "Wertham Fever" turned her into a secretary for the JLA.

Rucka's run has, in my opinion, been middling, well intentioned, but ultimately bland and uninteresting. Writers tend to take the character deadly "seriously" as a feminist role model, and that seems to include treating the character in an asexual manner; I feel this is a mistake that has been constantly repeated, and even Rucka doesn't escape this.

DC has more than enough "sex bombs". While I don't doubt she'd be more popular if she went the way of Supergirl and turned into Paris Hilton with a cape, I wouldn't want to read that book. The nature of Wonder Woman's mission puts her in more of a maternal position to humanity anyway. Is it so bad to have one female hero who *isn't* some kind of valley girl, slut, femme fatale, prostitute, or rape fodder?

[Kriminal]

Question: Which creative team would we like to see on WW?

He doesn't like superheroes, but even a brief run by Warren Ellis would be gold; he's aces with snappy dialogue, and strong female characters.

Artist? Tony Harris, Ryan Sook, or Cameron Stewart, either would be ideal for me.

[Kriminal]

DC has more than enough "sex bombs". While I don't doubt she'd be more popular if she went the way of Supergirl and turned into Paris Hilton with a cape, I wouldn't want to read that book. The nature of Wonder Woman's mission puts her in more of a maternal position to humanity anyway. We have serious, fairly asexual male super-heroes. Is it so bad to have one female hero who *isn't* some kind of valley girl, slut, femme fatale, prostitute, or rape fodder?

So addressing her sexuality automatically leads to WW acting like Paris Hilton? Wow.

Dude, I give you an inch, and you run a goddamn marathon!

[El Santo]

So addressing her sexuality automatically leads to WW acting like Paris Hilton and discussing the girth of Superman's steel? Wow.



With Judd Winick running wild in the DCU? HELL YES. I love Barry Ween and his early Outsiders stuff, but this is getting ridiculous. She'll be the DCU Bicycle in no time if they go in the direction you're suggesting.

[heystacy]

He doesn't like superheroes, but even a brief run by Warren Ellis would be gold; he's aces with snappy dialogue, and strong female characters.

Artist? Tony Harris, Ryan Sook, or Cameron Stewart, either would be ideal for me.

Ellis would be good. I'd like to see Ryan Sook on WW. I love his work on Zatanna. I would add Grant Morrison to the writer's list.

[Kriminal]

With Judd Winick running wild in the DCU? HELL YES. I love Barry Ween and his early Outsiders stuff, but this is getting ridiculous. She'll be the DCU Bicycle in no time if they go in the direction you're suggesting.

I can see that this debate won't be very fruitful, as you've some very interesting (scary) views on how women should carry themselves and be portrayed in popular media.

I'm a progressive, and I don't believe it is within my right to dictate the personal behavior of anyone, man or woman. I've a blue tongue, but I do not use words like "whore" and "slut" because I don't believe in them.

AS "meh" as I am about Winick's talents as a writer, there is no indication that he'll have anything to do with the title (you've moved beyond the point of paranoid with your assumptions). Even if that comes to pass, there is zero moral difference between WW having a bevy of boyfriends and Batman covorting about with any odd femme fatale, zero.

[El Santo]

I can see that this debate won't be very fruitful, as you've some very interesting (scary) views on how women should carry themselves and be portrayed in popular media.

No, I think some comic book writers have a rather scary view on how women should be portrayed in popular media.

I'm a progressive, and I don't believe it is within my right to dictate the personal behavior of anyone, man or woman. I've a blue tongue, but I do not use words like "whore" and "slut" because I don't believe in them.

There is a distinguishable line between female characters who are bold and confident in their sexuality, and who are just exploited wank material. Pick up a comic book and tell me which one is more likely to occur in comics.

AS "meh" as I am about Winick's talents as a writer, there is no indication that he'll have anything to do with the title (you've moved beyond the point of paranoid with your assumptions). Even if that comes to pass, there is zero moral difference between WW having a bevy of boyfriends and Batman covorting about with any odd femme fatale, zero.

If Wonder Woman were as cold, ruthless, and uncaring as Batman is generally portrayed, you would be correct. If she is portrayed as herself, she would probably be a bit too busy to be drowning in beefcake. But if she was written the way most DC writers write women, she'd be as sleazy, annoying, STD-ridden as any reality TV star, of either gender.

[Kriminal]

Again, your invective is based on a whole lotta "IF's" , my friend.

Aimed primarily at the juvenile, or the juvenile mind, the superhero genre mines sexual gratuity (provocation) as a way to appeal to the base fantasies of the male reader, that much is true, but DC would never allow WW to become a vacuous bad girl, your worries have no base to support them.

Do you think DC would ever allow a guy like Brian Pulido to write WW? I think not, but WW was created by a man with *very interesting* views on women, and that can be intelligently mined by a creative team aces enough to do it with originality and aplomb.

[El Santo]

Again, your invective is based on a whole lotta "IF's" , my friend.

Aimed primarily at the juvenile, or the juvenile mind, the superhero genre mines sexual gratuity (provocation) as a way to appeal to the base fantasies of the male reader, that much is true, but DC would never allow WW to become a vacuous bad girl, your worries have no base to support them.

I disagree. The whole reason people (well, people who don't read the book, and don't really like the character, but whine anyway) think she's "broken" now is that she's too intellectual, too strong, too opinionated, and because she killed Max Lord (justifiably), and "Superman wouldn't do that". I don't give a rat's ass about the "original" Wonder Woman who spent half of her book being tied up with her own lasso. I've no interest in pseudo-rape fantasies in comic books. If you want the "old Wonder Woman" back, well, you're getting your wish. DC wants to turn back the clock, it seems. Enjoy it. I'll be reading *good* comics somewhere else.

[Kriminal]

I disagree. The whole reason people (well, people who don't read the book, and don't really like the character, but whine anyway) think she's "broken" now is that she's too intellectual, too strong, too opinionated, and because she killed Max Lord (justifiably), and "Superman wouldn't do that". I don't give a rat's ass about the "original" Wonder Woman who spent half of her book being tied up with her own lasso. I've no interest in pseudo-rape fantasies in comic books. If you want the "old Wonder Woman" back, well, you're getting your wish. DC wants to turn back the clock, it seems. Enjoy it. I'll be reading *good* comics somewhere else.

Still running that marathon I see. :rolleyes:

[El Santo]

What, no witty retort? Everything I said was true. Her old comic really was basically about her being tied up a lot.

[Kriminal]

I don't need a witty retort. I see nothing personally offensive or bothersome about any of the overtones present in the earlier material.

[El Santo]

Fair enough. I personally don't like reading comics about vapid sex objects, but I won't stop anyone from enjoying such things.

[ForEverAncien]

My quarter in, barring how others feel about WW, I love the run, hate to see it go.

But to me, only to me...since I have collected the majority from Perez' run...sometimes, WW does seem to get the short end of the stick.

But that is only me.

[milly3cat]

Wonder woman issues of 200 - 222 are the latest and best of the series. :)

If it is rebooted it can only be for the worst. :eek:

( If it's not broken, don't fix it. )

[K'Nort]

I want a little spark, a little pizzazz, an updating of the independent, cheeky, and somewhat kinky Wonder Woman that William Moulton Marston originally conceived, before "Wertham Fever" turned her into a secretary for the JLA.

She spent a heck of a lot of time taking notes and otherwise remaining behind for the JSA too, which surprised the heck out of my once I started reading the Archive editions. Wasn't that pre-Wertham? (No, I'm really not sure.) So it could be more an issue of DC always being awkward about how to portray her in team scenarios, where she's automatically in contrast to the male heroes.

[Ontir]

Homemaking is not easy. It's also not what Wonder Woman should be doing, IMO. Some of you seem to look back fondly on the days of her being the JLA secretary. I do not.

Who's talking about her being the JLA's secretary - besides you? I'm talking about the ORIGINAL Wonder Woman - the one from 1941.

It's much slower than Superman, or nearly any other flying superhero. I don't recall it being any faster than the Bat-Plane. It's obsolete at this point in comics. As you pointed out, real-life technology has caught up with it; it's not really all that "super" anymore. Giving her the power of flight was the best thing DC has done for the character.

Her plane was said to be faster than pretty much anything else in the air, at the time. Later, that plane was capable of leaving the atmosphere, and traveling to other worlds - beyond the solar system. While Batman has, at various points in time, had a rocket capable of similar feets, his plane, could not. Giving her the power of flight, seemed like a good idea at the time. Even I was for it. Ultimately, it's done nothing for the character. She hasn't anything special to set her apart anymore, and the loss of the plane has diminished the Amazons and their culture. The problem with Wonder Woman, was never that she wasn't poweful enough, it was that the writers, after the early Marston era, didn't know how to write a woman with real inner strength.

[heystacy]

What should be brought back if WW's book gets rebooted? Should her mother be alive? (I personally think so-I thought Hypolyta was important to the Amazons). I think Diana should be a Princess, not simply an ambassador. Donna Troy as WW? Plausible, but so different. I like Donna as Troia.

[Ontir]

What I'd like to see next, is what I wanted to see after Crisis: Diana became Wonder Woman during WW II. She rescued Donna Troy, then married Steve Trevor, and had Lyta. Her mother is still alive and the Queen of the Amazons. The current Wonder Girl can be fitted in, the same way Jason Todd and Tim Drake fit with Dick Grayson in the Batman time-line.

[JKCarrier]

She spent a heck of a lot of time taking notes and otherwise remaining behind for the JSA too, which surprised the heck out of my once I started reading the Archive editions. Wasn't that pre-Wertham? (No, I'm really not sure.) So it could be more an issue of DC always being awkward about how to portray her in team scenarios, where she's automatically in contrast to the male heroes.

Supposedly, Marston didn't like the idea of anyone but him writing Wonder Woman. After he passed away in '47, she started becoming more active in the JSA.

[Captain Jim]

Slow down. We know very little. Do we even know that the relaunch WON'T be with Rucka?

As of today we do. He says so in his Gotham Central interview at Newsarama. What is completely speculation on some people's part, however, is that Rucka's changes will be undone and that the book will be returned to a simplier style. We know nothing of the kind.

Offhand, given that Rucka is one of the main architects of Infinite Crisis, I find that hard to believe.

[El Santo]

As of today we do. He says so in his Gotham Central interview at Newsarama. What is completely speculation on some people's part, however, is that Rucka's changes will be undone and that the book will be returned to a simplier style. We know nothing of the kind.

Offhand, given that Rucka is one of the main architects of Infinite Crisis, I find that hard to believe.

Him contributing to IC has no bearing whatsoever on the Wonder Woman reboot. Nobody is going to force the new writer to conform to anything related to Rucka's vision for Wonder Woman. DC is making a terrible mistake, but nobody will realize it until several years from now when we look back and see what absolute tripe the book became.

[Captain Jim]

You have no basis for such statements. You don't know who the new creative team is going to be or what they're going to do.

What we do know is that Rucka is the latest in a long line of creators who have been unable to make this book a sales success. I'm sure that's the primary reason he's being replaced.

[El Santo]

You have no basis for such statements. You don't know who the new creative team is going to be or what they're going to do.

What we do know is that Rucka is the latest in a long line of creators who have been unable to make this book a sales success. I'm sure that's the primary reason he's being replaced.

Well, he's the only writer to sell me on the book. And hey, I'm sure if they put some Mike Turner covers and Alan Heinberg on the book, it'll be a wild success.


...but then again, so are Paris Hilton, Jessica Simpson, and a host of crappy bands on MTV. Commercial success, sadly, is rarely tied to actual talent.

[Kriminal]

Him contributing to IC has no bearing whatsoever on the Wonder Woman reboot. Nobody is going to force the new writer to conform to anything related to Rucka's vision for Wonder Woman. DC is making a terrible mistake, but nobody will realize it until several years from now when we look back and see what absolute tripe the book became.

Jesús Cristo :rolleyes:

[Paradox]

This thread has lost me. We're convinced that it's a reboot and not just a relaunch exactly why?

[Tennoarashi]

What we do know is that Rucka is the latest in a long line of creators who have been unable to make this book a sales success. Despite the fact that sales at least doubled during Sacrifice? Which was Greg Rucka's baby, along with OMAC - so he's responsible for that. And that's not to contribute the increase in the books sales overall.

Besides - DC has a policy that they change they're creative teams for every book every so years.

Yes - And it's probably to be a relaunch. Rebooting wouldn't make much sense.

[El Santo]

This thread has lost me. We're convinced that it's a reboot and not just a relaunch exactly why?

Honestly, I think a relaunch would be bad enough. Given that every "bold new direction" DC has taken a character in for the past year has succeeded mainly in destroying any interest whatsoever that I had, I'm a little peeved that they're doing it to a character that I was actually enjoying.

[Lorendiac]

Donna Troy as WW? Plausible, but so different. I like Donna as Troia.

For what it's worth, I just checked the "Infinite Crisis Casualty Poll, Round 2" (http://www.internationalvoting.com/int3/ask.cgi?pid=27-500) that I started right after IC #2 came out, and Diana is definitely leading the pack as the most likely sacrificial goat, whose dramatic demise would be meant to demonstrate to the fans that IC really involved "shaking things up" and making some "drastic changes" in the DCU.

The Top Three Candidates (in a field of 20 superhero names on the ballot, plus two other options for those who don't like my selections) are:

Wonder Woman: 20.6%
Batman: 15.9%
Nightwing: 12.1%

I don't know this part for sure - but I strongly suspect that most of the people voting for Diana's death as likely to occur are expecting Donna to step up as the pinch-hitter Wonder Woman for awhile. (I wouldn't mind seeing that happen myself! As long as it was temporary.)

Of course, the follow-up question on my Poll is: How long do you expect that major character to STAY dead (measured by the time passing in the real world until his or her return is published)? (http://www.internationalvoting.com/int3/ask.cgi?pid=27-501)


At this moment, 18.9% favor the idea that the "death" will last less than one year, and another 18.9% favor the idea that it will stick for at least one year (but implicitly less than two, since if they meant "at least two years" they could have clicked on a different option on the poll).

So if we pretend that the results of my poll mean anything about popular perceptions of comic book fans in general (humor me - it's possible! :)), then Diana is the favored candidate to drop dead in the next few months - but 37.8% of those who voted on the Follow-Up question also feel that whoever drops dead will be back in action, good as new, less than two years from the time the death is published!

Accordingly, as I said in another thread last week, I fear the long-term "legacy" of Infinite Crisis may be:

****

So here's what I'm afraid of. It could go something like this:

Early 2006. Fans say to each other, "Whoa! Look at the heroic, self-sacrificing way Wonder Woman died in the process of smashing the plans of the Big Bad Guy in IC #7! This has been a heroic epic in the classic literary tradition!"

Then, by 2010, new fans will be asking, "What was Infinite Crisis?" and old fans will be saying, "Ah, it was this overrated mess where Wonder Woman made the 'ultimate sacrifice' to defeat some souped-up supervillain . . . the 'ultimate sacrifice' meaning that for the next 20 issues, she didn't get to be featured in her own monthly title and we were supposed to think she was 'really dead' and 'gone for good'. But then she came back good as new and resumed her old role, right back to the old Status Quo, same as before, no lasting impact from Infinite Crisis! That's what's wrong with all these attempts on the part of Marvel and DC to sell us 'epic stories' that in the long run change very very little in anyone's life."

[xandertheill]

I think Diana´s powers are just fine the level they are right now, she should be on Superman´s level..

What needs to be tweaked is her personality, as some have already pointed out, she´s too perfect and ideal, there´s no empathy with the readers since they can´t identify themselves with someone who has no flaws, doesn´t make mistakes and is never wrong, lies or has self-doubts.

It works for superman fans.... ZING HEH HEH HEH.

Case in point, she´s been around for 20 years and she´s never been involved with anyone? What, writers are affraid that an emotional entanglement would be a sign of weakness?

I don't read Wondy regularly but I agree with this completely i think they have the same fear about bats just for different reasons. Plus who wouldn't be cranky after 20 years without gettin some? by choice or not.

[DDM]

I'll buy the first 12 issues of the revamped Wonder Woman to see where it's going...

[Absolut_Fresh]

*sighs and shakes his head*

i think Diana being replaced with Donna would go over about like when Bruce was replaced with Azreal in Knightfall or KnightsEnd or whatever it was called...EITHER way it wasnt pretty.

[heystacy]

Wondy deserves better. Get her a creative team that wants her to be just as good as other DC heroes. Right now I don't wkno what's up with her. After she heated up battling Medousa, she cooled right down. Damn.

[Lorendiac]

*sighs and shakes his head*

i think Diana being replaced with Donna would go over about like when Bruce was replaced with Azreal in Knightfall or KnightsEnd or whatever it was called...EITHER way it wasnt pretty.

I see some key differences between the two characters.

1. Jean Paul Valley hadn't been a well-established part of Batman continuity for decades. He had only been created several months before to hastily be shoehorned into life at Wayne Manor in preparation for going on to bigger and better things as the Pinch-Hitter Batman, regardless of how the fans felt about it.

2. Jean Paul Valley had, on the other hand, been programmed from birth to be an assassin for a group of religious fanatics - and Batman knew this, but idiotically assumed JP had miraculously broken out of that brainwashing in the blink of an eye in his miniseries and couldn't possibly regress.

3. Jean Paul Valley made virtually no effort to act the way Batman would have acted in various situations - he didn't really care how Batman would have acted.

I don't see any of those problems applying to Donna Troy if she temporarily takes the role of Wonder Woman.

[El Santo]

Wondy deserves better. Get her a creative team that wants her to be just as good as other DC heroes. Right now I don't wkno what's up with her. After she heated up battling Medousa, she cooled right down. Damn.

Rucka was doing great with her until Infinite Crisis happened. :(

[Lex]

Rucka was doing great with her until Infinite Crisis happened. :(I agree. I was really enjoying his Wonder Woman run with the embassy and Veronica Cale and stuff right up until he started gearing up for Infinite Crisis. Then weird, unfun stuff started happening like Jonah being a... well whatever he was. Anyway, the book stopped being interesting to me at that point.

I'll definately check out whatever Wonder Woman we get after Infinite Crisis.

[El Santo]

I agree. I was really enjoying his Wonder Woman run with the embassy and Veronica Cale and stuff right up until he started gearing up for Infinite Crisis. Then weird, unfun stuff started happening like Jonah being a... well whatever he was. Anyway, the book stopped being interesting to me at that point.

I'll definately check out whatever Wonder Woman we get after Infinite Crisis.

See, I'm the exact opposite there. Rucka is gone after #226, and frankly, so am I, at this point. I hate the way DC's other writers (especially Geoff Johns) write her.

[Paradox]

El Santo may do as he wishes:

See, I'm the exact opposite there. Rucka is gone after #226, and frankly, so am I, at this point. I hate the way DC's other writers (especially Geoff Johns) write her.

As you wish, but keep in mind you're making an emotional decision, not a rational one, as you have absolutely no idea what they're going to be doing with her.

[El Santo]

As you wish, but keep in mind you're making an emotional decision, not a rational one, as you have absolutely no idea what they're going to be doing with her.


I'm making a logical decision. I know I don't like Infinite Crisis. Why would I like it's bastard offspring? :D

[ForEverAncien]

Jonah's duplicity was a undercurrent theme...therefore, it was long in the running.

And anyway, Pallas warned Dinah of the storm that was coming, indirectly or directly...so even her own patron deity saw something bad coming down the pike. And this was before Countdown..

I agree. I was really enjoying his Wonder Woman run with the embassy and Veronica Cale and stuff right up until he started gearing up for Infinite Crisis. Then weird, unfun stuff started happening like Jonah being a... well whatever he was. Anyway, the book stopped being interesting to me at that point.

I'll definately check out whatever Wonder Woman we get after Infinite Crisis.

[ForEverAncien]

Logical? When did humans become logical...who are you fooling, eh? ;)
I'm making a logical decision. I know I don't like Infinite Crisis. Why would I like it's bastard offspring? :D

[Paradox]

El Santo is fooling himself:

I'm making a logical decision. I know I don't like Infinite Crisis. Why would I like it's bastard offspring? :D

Because you know jack-diddley about the "bastard offspring".

Classic case: Starman came out of Zero Hour. Good stuff sometimes comes from crap.

[El Santo]

Because you know jack-diddley about the "bastard offspring".

Classic case: Starman came out of Zero Hour. Good stuff sometimes comes from crap.

Infinite Crisis sprang from Identity Crisis. Sometimes crap just begets crap.:cool:

That said, I suppose it's vaguely possible that the comic will be good, and that I'll still care about it when they finally get around to publishing Wonder Woman again. But they haven't announced a new series, so most likely the title will be out of sight until after the 52 event, which is something else I'll be passing on, at least until it comes out in TPB. So yeah, we'll see how I feel about their "bold new" Wonder Woman in a year when she finally shows up. But let's just say I'm skeptical.

Still, Marvel has given me a readable new Excalibur book, starring Dazzler, no less, and I'm loving "The Other". I'm hardly in a position to complain about comics at the moment. Now if only they'd bring Christopher Priest back, the world would be right again. :D

[Paradox]

El Santo comes around:

Infinite Crisis sprang from Identity Crisis. Sometimes crap just begets crap.:cool:

Sure, that's a given. My point is...why even bother making a decision now? "Wait and see" is usually good advice, since it costs you nothing.

Certainly "this doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in" is a valid rational point, but you have to actually have something there to not be interested in. As it is now...who the hell knows? :)

[El Santo]

I'd rather not get my hopes up again. I thoroughly enjoyed Villains United and the OMAC Project, so much so that I was looking forward to Infinite Crisis with bated breath, not having read the stuff online about it being just a sequel to COIE. I was expecting some kind of cool world-wide pandemonium involving Supervillains running roughshod all over the world while the sky filled with OMACs. I was expecting an epic battle for the earth with Lex's Society on one side, The Secret Six on another side, The OMACs on yet another side, and an internally fractured JLA making up another two sides, all vying for control.

What I got was a sequel to COIE, and some Superman nostalgia. And a horribly written Wonder Woman, which kinda hurt my feelings. I'm thankful I browsed the book before buying it, so at least I wasn't cheated out of my cash, but still...I went from happily anticipating the next year or so of DC comics to dreading the coming of February, when Rucka leaves the book I wouldn't be reading if it wasn't for him. My fault, I guess, for letting my hopes get up.


So I'd much rather prepare for the worst possible scenario now. That way if it turns out bad, I won't be disappointed, and if it turns out mediocre or better, I'll be pleasantly surprised. But even than plan involves being more negative than I'd like. So my current plan involves reading a lot of Marvel books, maybe looking up The Goon and some other indie projects that have caught my eye.

[Lex]

Jonah's duplicity was a undercurrent theme...therefore, it was long in the running.But I don't think his character had that duplicity in th beginning. The first issue of Rucka's run was told through Jonah's eyes and I really liked the character. I saw nothing but a guy who really wanted to help. But then when Rucka started gearing up for OMAC, he started that Jonah subplot that was a complete 180 from how Jonah had been previously written. That's when the book lost me.

[ForEverAncien]

That could be true, but with all things...we are not allowed sometimes, to see the true merit of what someone is. Jonah was all nice on top, but underneath, he was all Checkmate. Watch Alias often? ;)

But I don't think his character had that duplicity in th beginning. The first issue of Rucka's run was told through Jonah's eyes and I really liked the character. I saw nothing but a guy who really wanted to help. But then when Rucka started gearing up for OMAC, he started that Jonah subplot that was a complete 180 from how Jonah had been previously written. That's when the book lost me.

[ForEverAncien]

Then with no hope, there is no joy...we don't live in a perfect world, and the comic books are no exception.

To each their own path of joy and misey. ;)

I'd rather not get my hopes up again. I thoroughly enjoyed Villains United and the OMAC Project, so much so that I was looking forward to Infinite Crisis with bated breath, not having read the stuff online about it being just a sequel to COIE. I was expecting some kind of cool world-wide pandemonium involving Supervillains running roughshod all over the world while the sky filled with OMACs. I was expecting an epic battle for the earth with Lex's Society on one side, The Secret Six on another side, The OMACs on yet another side, and an internally fractured JLA making up another two sides, all vying for control.

What I got was a sequel to COIE, and some Superman nostalgia. And a horribly written Wonder Woman, which kinda hurt my feelings. I'm thankful I browsed the book before buying it, so at least I wasn't cheated out of my cash, but still...I went from happily anticipating the next year or so of DC comics to dreading the coming of February, when Rucka leaves the book I wouldn't be reading if it wasn't for him. My fault, I guess, for letting my hopes get up.


So I'd much rather prepare for the worst possible scenario now. That way if it turns out bad, I won't be disappointed, and if it turns out mediocre or better, I'll be pleasantly surprised. But even than plan involves being more negative than I'd like. So my current plan involves reading a lot of Marvel books, maybe looking up The Goon and some other indie projects that have caught my eye.

[Ontir]

Well, he's [Rucka] the only writer to sell me on the book.


Now if you'd just by 10,000,000 copies per month! :rolleyes:

[El Santo]

Now if you'd just by 10,000,000 copies per month! :rolleyes:

Well, however many millions the next writer sells, I won't be one of them. I doubt it'll mean anything to DC, and it isn't meant to. I read what I likee, period. To hell with the dumbed-down Wonder Woman.

[Ontir]

Santo, you might just want to READ the book, before you denounce it, it's creative team, and their off-spring for 10 generations!

[Renaissance Man]

Wonder Woman should be killing more people. She's an Amazon warrior princess for Zeus' sake. Every JLA issue should have someone in the roster whispering "Make sure Diana doesn't kill someone else." I'd love to see a writer come in and make her the bad @$$ she should be. I'll do it for half the normal page rate!

Hawkman is practically the same way. He's always threatening to cave in someone's skull with that big smegging mace.

[The Adventurer]

I wouldn't mind that. At least make her more agressive and use that as a plot element were she has to "tamn the beast with in"

She should be an Alien to mans world anyway. Ever learning to adapt to our ways.

I've always seen her as a middle ground between Batman and Superman. She's got superpowers like Supes, and the fighting skills of Batman. But niether of the two's moral conditioning. She's from a race of warriors who shun men after all.

She should also use Weapons as a standard, Swords, Lances, AXES.

Unfortunatly to much pasted continuity wouldn't allow for a radical change like that. Not that I'm bashing continuity, I love the stuff. I just wish Wondy had been taken in a slightly different direction when she was rebooted before.

[Spiderchick1974]

Wonder Woman should be killing more people. She's an Amazon warrior princess for Zeus' sake. Every JLA issue should have someone in the roster whispering "Make sure Diana doesn't kill someone else." I'd love to see a writer come in and make her the bad @$$ she should be. I'll do it for half the normal page rate!



But isn't one of Diana's oldest traits her compassion and her desire to reform rather than to beat villains into submission and much less killing them?
I honestly doubt it would be a good thing to turn her into a Wolverina...
I agree that she is the middle ground between Supes raw power and Bats' cunning and fighting skills, in fact, with that combo she should be the most feared of all superheroes, period.

[protege]

Wonder Woman should be killing more people. She's an Amazon warrior princess for Zeus' sake. Every JLA issue should have someone in the roster whispering "Make sure Diana doesn't kill someone else." I'd love to see a writer come in and make her the bad @$$ she should be. I'll do it for half the normal page rate!

Hawkman is practically the same way. He's always threatening to cave in someone's skull with that big smegging mace.
I don't know; wouldn't you get tired if all Diana and Carter did every month was kill somebody? There should be more conflict with the police about their extreme methods and viewpoints.

[Ontir]

The Amazons didn't shun men, they were exiled as punishment for their pride, by Aphrodite. Diana was always fascinated by Steve, from the moment she first saw him, because as the only Amazon born on the island, she's the only one who never saw one.

There is something to the idea that she's got the powers like Superman, and the skills like Batman, but unlike either of them, she's the one who never killed anyone. Superman and Batman both began their careers snapping necks or shooting the badguys. While Diana's people WERE warriors, they've not engaged in real battle for about 3,000 years. Diana was raised in a very peaceful society, where the women developed themselves to the height of physical, spiritual, and intellectual achievement. Killing is something that would be very alien to Diana, and most likely anethema.

[Kriminal]

While I wouldn't mind if WW offed a guy every once in a while, I wouldn't want it to become a thing.

[Ontir]

I thought Diana killing Lord was disgusting, and a complete betrayal of the character. I now believe, having read IC #2, that it was done to give an example of how astray the post-Crisis DCU had gone from what was intended, and to give us an absolute opposite to show us where TPTB intend to take the line of books.

[Renaissance Man]

I'd write Diana like she was an Amazon version of a Shaolin nun. A philosopher, warrior, and compassionate being who just so happens to know 1008 ways to kill someone and wouldn't hesitate to do it if there were no other recourse. "You've got to put a rabid dog down," would be a good motto for her.

Another character who should be smashing his enemies is Thor. Thor is a viking god! I think he could still be written as an honorable warrior, but when push comes to shove, he should be littering the Marvel universe with the bodies of his enemies. Hercules might even fall into the same category.

[The Joker]

Although Greg Rucka confirmed that the comic will be relaunched and not rebooted, he did also specify that the Wonder Woman title will remain in Diana's court, not Donna Troy's.

Good. As it should be.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the relaunch. As well as the upcoming All Star Wonder Woman book. Adam Hughes returning to WW would be most welcomed as well. Although preferably in All Star title.

[El Santo]

Santo, you might just want to READ the book, before you denounce it, it's creative team, and their off-spring for 10 generations!

No. Because I believe, as you do, that the Powers that Be intend to basically piss on everything Rucka built with the book and turn Diana into some whimpering pacifist, like some kind of dime-store Superman. I can only hope that they take this stupidity to where it ought to go, and have her killed after letting some hideously evil villain go because "she can't kill".

[Paul Newell]

No. Because I believe, as you do, that the Powers that Be intend to basically piss on everything Rucka built with the book and turn Diana into some whimpering pacifist, like some kind of dime-store Superman. I can only hope that they take this stupidity to where it ought to go, and have her killed after letting some hideously evil villain go because "she can't kill".

No, you're talking insane-psycho bollocks. You have absolutely no idea about whatever Wonder Woman's future is and you're frothing at the mouth has effectively killed this thread.