Quesada Addresses Minis in Joe Fridays

[Nick Kal]

NRAMA: As promised, moving on ...Dash-Dot asks:

”My apologies in advance for the long question.
”I was wondering if you could address some of the concerns recently voiced on the Internet regarding your policy towards tie-ins. You've been pretty vocal about differentiating Marvel's House of M event from DC's current Crisis, and one of your biggest points of contention was that unlike DC, Marvel wasn't requiring its readers to read several mini-series in order to read the entire story.

”However, now that House of M #8 has finally arrived, we learn that the mini-series leaves a lot of loose ends, or at least unresolved plot points, that you now intend to resolve via several mini-series, as well as a number of crossovers in ongoing titles throughout the Marvel Universe.

”To recap: The Decimation one-shot, Generation M (5 issues), X-Men: Deadly Genesis (6 issues), Son of M (6 issues), X-Men: The 198 (5 issues), X-Men: The 198 Files one-shot, Sentinel Squad O*N*E (5 issues), along with the follow ups in ongoing series like Wolverine, X-Factor, and the New Avengers.

”That's 27 issues, not including the ongoings, which is an awful lot of comic books. (DC's "required reading" Infinite Crisis mini-series and one-shots only totaled 16 before the start of their main event, if you don't count The Return of Donna Troy.)

”Couldn't this be perceived as doing exactly what DC is doing with its Infinite Crisis tie-ins, but in reverse? Instead of asking people to read a large number of ongoing comics and mini-series to understand the main event ahead of time, Marvel could potentially be accused of doing so after the fact, after the readers are already (in theory) hooked. Or does the policy about House of M being self-contained still stand, meaning that none of these official House of M follow-up tie-ins will tie directly into the events of the main story, clear up the unresolved questions or plot points, or set up the next big event to come?

”Again, sorry for the long question, but I'm eager to hear your thoughts about all this latest Internet hullabaloo.”

JQ: Hey, Dash! Sorry for the long answer!

Okay, lets begin at the beginning. DC has been tying in stuff to Crisis since Identity Crisis. Count all those OMAC tie-ins and Villains United tie-ins and so on and so on and you have a much larger tapestry than the one you’re presenting, so you’re numbers are way off.

Also, by using your logic, DC’s “One Year Later” (which I think is a very cool idea) could be viewed as an entire line wide tie-in of Crisis’ aftermath. And, that’s not even counting the new titles that will spin out of Crisis. That's a heck of a lot of books times an entire year of publishing.

But, I also don’t buy into your logic when it comes to the aftermath books. The idea with crossovers or events (as we do) is that stuff changes within the Universe. Because stuff changes you will most likely see new books appearing. But this doesn’t need a crossover or event to happen.

Take a look at Supreme Power, it’s had a number of spin-offs. This has more to do with the success of a particular product. I see new titles that come out of these big events as something cool, new ideas, new roads to venture down and also, no pressure to buy them if you don’t want to. I’m only concerned when you force readers to buy titles that they don’t normally read on a consistent and very large basis because I think ultimately it does more harm than good. On occasion, sure I get it, ask too much of your readership and you could be making problems for yourself and everyone else in the biz. Trust me, there is a day coming when comic fans will rebel against crossovers. It’s happened before, it will happen again.

The idea behind House of M was to clear the decks within the Marvel Universe in order for us to tell some cool stories and pose some new ideas. What’s the point of having all that change and then not have it affect the rest of the books? What’s the point if it doesn’t raise new questions and curiosities about what’s going to happen in the universe and across several titles? But that said, let’s look at the titles in question.

* The Decimation one-shot: If you weren’t interested in House of M, no need to read this at all. Also, if you didn’t read House of M but wanted to get caught up, you could find out where all the pieces are in one issue.

* Generation M (5 issues): Again, not a must read. This is just giving you some deeper info on mutants that lost their powers and what their lives are like now. You could just be content knowing that 90+% of the mutant populace is gone and continue reading Marvel books.

* X-Men: Deadly Genesis (6 issues): Although this happens in the aftermath of House of M, it’s a separate X-Men mini similar to Phoenix: Endsong. You don't have to purchase it to get the continuing saga of the X-Men but it is an incredible read. I recommend everyone read this if they want to read a story that is significant to the history of X-Men more than the story of House of M. If you’ve followed X-men for a considerable amount of time, you must read this title. Also, this will be [Ed] Brubaker's break out hit!

* Son of M (6 issues): Again, an aftermath story that only need to be read if you’ve dug House of M and you want to see what’s happened to certain characters afterwards. And by the way, there were a lot of people who dug House of M and want to read more about it.

* X-Men: The 198 (5 issues), X-Men The 198 Files one-shot: Same as all the above. More follow-up on House of M.

* Sentinel Squad O*N*E (5 issues): Same as all of the above. Just a cool idea that sprung from House of M.

Wolverine, X-Factor, and the New Avengers: These are books that have been directly effected by House of M and that’s going to happen with any event.

How would fandom feel if after vesting in House of M, nothing of consequence happened? I remember that was a huge concern in the beginning when fans first learned of House of M, no one believed that we were actually going to change stuff in any significant way. Well we have and in a very big way. But then how do you expect change and not have it effect titles?

And yes, we have some spin off books, but as you can see, we are keeping them as self-contained as humanly possible. It would have been very easy for us to take let’s say Son of M and write that into Uncanny X-Men and to take the 198 and put that story into New X-Men and so on. Then it would have been a different story. But in the case of New Avengers, Wolverine and X-Factor it was unavoidable. Too much of the terrain in which those books live on has been changed not to affect them.

So basically... don't buy any minis because they're pointless?

[Shadow Crawler]

That is not what he's saying at all. Joey Q is just saying that you don't HAVE to read them if you were not interested in House of M.

[Young Avenger]

I like this approch that Marvel used with House of M. With the tie-ins being self-contained it makes it accessible to readers who don't follow the main story. Though I greatly disappointed with HoM, I'm going to pick up X-Factor and Deadly Genesis. Those look interesting.

[Nick Kal]

But the Crisis minis were self contained. And if you didn't read anything before Crisis, Johns has recapped most of the stuff prior in the first 2 issues. It's just if you wanted to enhance your experience. Joey Q is wording it to make DC look bad and he shouldn't be.

[Jake V]

But the Crisis minis were self contained. And if you didn't read anything before Crisis, Johns has recapped most of the stuff prior in the first 2 issues. It's just if you wanted to enhance your experience. Joey Q is wording it to make DC look bad and he shouldn't be.
But elements from the countdown minis directly appear in Infinite Crisis itself. They're required reading if you want to understand the IC mini. Not to mention the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The HoM minis were only tanegntally related to the HoM mini itself, and are not required to understand the main story. That's basically what quesada was saying.

[Beast]

But the Crisis minis were self contained. And if you didn't read anything before Crisis, Johns has recapped most of the stuff prior in the first 2 issues. It's just if you wanted to enhance your experience. Joey Q is wording it to make DC look bad and he shouldn't be.
Even though he's 100% correct in what he says. :)

[Nick Kal]

Ok, so the minis that came out for HoM don't even it in with the main mini... so they were pointless elseworlds tales, right? Several people said Spidey: HoM doesn't fit...

Sure they have elements from the minis in Crisis, that's why the minis were made, to enhance Crisis, not tell the story of Crisis. If I didn't read the minis or COIE and I read IC I would know most of what was going on by now.

Points:

OMAC - OMAC and Batman's discussion in # 2.

VU - Appearance of the Villains in crisis working as a cohesive unit and showing who their leaders are.

R/T War - Talked about center of earth shifting.

DoV - Talked about Spectre and Magic being out of control.

So I know what is happening right now in the DC Universe from # 2 of Crisis and I didn't have to read the minis.

And he keeps on talking about Crisis Counseling online... It's just a way for fans to see how things spread out from the Crisis into the DCU. Not required reading, like all of the minis, but they are affected.

It's the same thing, he's just manipulating it to seem like Marvel isn't doing this "terrible" thing that DC is... and it's not working cause IC # 1 smoked Marvel's butts.

[Jake V]

they've shown Wonder Woman killing Max Lord without giving any context for it.

Hell, if you're going on IC alone, you have no idea how Blue Beetle died or why.

How confusing would crazy armor Luthor's scene in the arctic be without Villains United?

All IC tells you are that things are going on. No context for any of it is given, just the events.

And Quesada is SUPPOSED to knock the competition in interviews. He's Marvel's public face, it's his job.

Sure IC#1 beat Marvel books in sales. HoM #1 did the exact same thing when it came out. It's how event comics work.

[Nick Kal]

they've shown Wonder Woman killing Max Lord without giving any context for it.

Hell, if you're going on IC alone, you have no idea how Blue Beetle died or why.

How confusing would crazy armor Luthor's scene in the arctic be without Villains United?

All IC tells you are that things are going on. No context for any of it is given, just the events.

And Quesada is SUPPOSED to knock the competition in interviews. He's Marvel's public face, it's his job.

Sure IC#1 beat Marvel books in sales. HoM #1 did the exact same thing when it came out. It's how event comics work.

Did you notice that the super heroes are just as surprised about Diana. I bet they'll address why she killed him agan because someone is bound to ask.

Booster Gold is doing something that follows up with Blue Beetle, so they'll prob address that.

They're obviously going to touch on the 2 Luthor thing.

2 issues in... 5 to go. It took HoM 6 issues to get started...

Does Dan Didio say how lousy Marvel's shipping schedule is?

Yeah, but despite all of Joe's complaining and mocking he got smoked. Pwned.

DC rules!

[Brian M.]

The way I look at it is that with HoM Marvel is saying the mini's are Add-ons and with IC I guess they are tie ins. Kinda like a house. IC is the living room and the tie-ins are the rest of the house, dining room, bedrooms, bathrooms, with them you don't have a complete house. HoM is the complete house but the mini's are the nice pool, nice deck, nice yard, they make the house better. You don't need those things for the house but it's nice to know they are there.

[Nick Kal]

Nice analogy. I do believe that IC will be a house though, much like COIE was.

[Beast]

At least with House of M there wasn't '52'. :p

[Jake V]

At least with House of M there wasn't '52'. :p
I think you mean "isn't". 52 hasn't happened yet.

I'm actually looking forward to it. Morrison and some others reshaping the DCU's major and minor characters. Kinda like Seven Soldiers on a smaller yet larger scale.

[Beast]

I think you mean "isn't". 52 hasn't happened yet.

I'm actually looking forward to it. Morrison and some others reshaping the DCU's major and minor characters. Kinda like Seven Soldiers on a smaller yet larger scale.
Yeah, but all it's doing is filling in the missing year in more or less real time. That's if Morrison and friends actually manages to keep it on the weekly schedule.

[Jake V]

Yeah, but all it's doing is filling in the missing year in more or less real time. That's if Morrison and friends actually manages to keep it on the weekly schedule.
I'm pretty confident that it'll ship like its supposed to. There certainly shouldn't be any problems delivering scripts, and Kieth Giffen is doing pencil breakdowns for each issue, which should help the rotating cast of artists a lot.

[Will.S]

The HoM minis, barring some errors, were done well enough to keep them seperate from the main story but relevant enough to give you more insight on various HoM characters such as Dr. Doom and his attitude towards Magneto and why he doesn't have the other 3 members of his Fantastic Four.

The Spider-Man House of M book gives you more of a feel of what Peter was so angry about once it was taken away from him since it was pretty much an ideal world for him to be living in with the past mistakes of Gwen, Ben and Captain Stacy being dead. The most isolated mini from the event during it's tenure was probably Iron Man since Tony doesn't feature that much in the event other than in the big brawl and the beginning and ending of the gathering of heroes in normal 616 universe.

[Matt K]

I'm prefering the way Marvel is doing this (not say that I perfer it to DC, just that I like how Marvel is doing this). I'm seriously thinking of picking up O*N*E, sounds like a neat premise and same with Son of M and I haven't read a single issue of House of M (or any real tie in). I like how Marvel is using the event to spawn interesting ideas instead of creating books to continue to event.

[Twigglet]

Infinite Crisis has something over 100 tie-ins now, there was the five 5/6 issue mini's, all the tie-ine's to that, a sequel to COIE, Identity Criris, Countdown..etc.

I read the first issue as the only other DC comic I had got was Countdown, I only started reading comics when Identity Crisis was ending, and I didn't understand much at all, as a new reader I can not get involved in the DCU as as soon as I try the nest issue is a tie-in to another comic, the worst being the Sacrifice crossover, and now even the mini's leading into Infinite Crisis had no particular ending and have another issue coming out previously unnanounced.

What Marvel is doing I see as much better, spin-out titles what you don't need to buy, but ar enehanced if you do. For example you can read New Excalibuir or X-factor without knowing much about HOM but it will be cool if you have.

[Nick Kal]

Infinite Crisis has something over 100 tie-ins now, there was the five 5/6 issue mini's, all the tie-ine's to that, a sequel to COIE, Identity Criris, Countdown..etc.

I read the first issue as the only other DC comic I had got was Countdown, I only started reading comics when Identity Crisis was ending, and I didn't understand much at all, as a new reader I can not get involved in the DCU as as soon as I try the nest issue is a tie-in to another comic, the worst being the Sacrifice crossover, and now even the mini's leading into Infinite Crisis had no particular ending and have another issue coming out previously unnanounced.

What Marvel is doing I see as much better, spin-out titles what you don't need to buy, but ar enehanced if you do. For example you can read New Excalibuir or X-factor without knowing much about HOM but it will be cool if you have.

Yet why should you care what the HoM fallout in X-Factor is if you didn't read the mini? Everything is connected no matter how Quesada likes to phrase it.

Also, if you buy issue # 2 of Crisis you'll be caught up with most everything.

[Twigglet]

Yet why should you care what the HoM fallout in X-Factor is if you didn't read the mini? Everything is connected no matter how Quesada likes to phrase it.

Also, if you buy issue # 2 of Crisis you'll be caught up with most everything.

If Peter David does his job, yes you will care about the fallout. For example if you buy X-factor and you like the characters, if one of them IS depowered, odds are you will be interested in it.


And I will get Infininte Crisis 2 eventually, my shop has a pile of them left, I might just wait for the trade though/

[Beast]

Yet why should you care what the HoM fallout in X-Factor is if you didn't read the mini? Everything is connected no matter how Quesada likes to phrase it.

Also, if you buy issue # 2 of Crisis you'll be caught up with most everything.
Yeah, everything is connected...it's called continuity. But you don't have to read every book to understand what is going on. Hell, the only necessary book to understand any of the Decimation titles is 'House of M: The Day After'. Only because it explains what Wanda did, and set up the various books. You don't even have to have read HoM, for that one book to explain everything you need to know to you. :)

[Nick Kal]

If Peter David does his job, yes you will care about the fallout. For example if you buy X-factor and you like the characters, if one of them IS depowered, odds are you will be interested in it.


And I will get Infininte Crisis 2 eventually, my shop has a pile of them left, I might just wait for the trade though/

But if the revelation of something big has to do with something from HoM and you didn't read that.. then why should it matter to you?

Like if I never read the original Cap America run where Bucky died and now he's back... is it going to affect me? Not really, he's just a cool new villain who obviously ha slinks to Cap's past and makes it a really good story for having him there. I mean I can enjoy X-Factor despite teh HoM stuff, I'm sure.

People will be able to enjoy the OYL stuff even if they don't read Crisis, it'll be a way to jump on.. like Decimation is for the X-Men titles. Tehy call them reloads why?

[Nick Kal]

Yeah, everything is connected...it's called continuity. But you don't have to read every book to understand what is going on. Hell, the only necessary book to understand any of the Decimation titles is 'House of M: The Day After'. Only because it explains what Wanda did, and set up the various books. You don't even have to have read HoM, for that one book to explain everything you need to know to you. :)

Ah, so there is a book that is necessary, yes? And then after not having to read these minis, you go and read an X-Book and you're like... wth? Mutants don't have their powers?

[Beast]

Ah, so there is a book that is necessary, yes? And then after not having to read these minis, you go and read an X-Book and you're like... wth? Mutants don't have their powers?
They already lost their powers, this is all explained in HoM: The Day After. One double-sized One-Shot that sets up the various books coming out of HoM. And considering that New Excalibir and New X-Men also recap what happened, there's nothing stopping one from following any of the books without reading the mini, or any of the titles coming off of HoM. They're all self-contained, inside of a larger continuity storyline.

[Twigglet]

But if the revelation of something big has to do with something from HoM and you didn't read that.. then why should it matter to you?

Like if I never read the original Cap America run where Bucky died and now he's back... is it going to affect me? Not really, he's just a cool new villain who obviously ha slinks to Cap's past and makes it a really good story for having him there. I mean I can enjoy X-Factor despite teh HoM stuff, I'm sure.

People will be able to enjoy the OYL stuff even if they don't read Crisis, it'll be a way to jump on.. like Decimation is for the X-Men titles. Tehy call them reloads why?

So if you can enjoY X-factor, without reading HOM, what are you complaining about?

I don't get it? Sure people will be able to jump on the DCU with OYL, no-ones doubting that, I think Queseda said as much in his interview didn't he?

[Twigglet]

Ah, so there is a book that is necessary, yes? And then after not having to read these minis, you go and read an X-Book and you're like... wth? Mutants don't have their powers?

Marvel books have "previously" pages normally at the sart of the book, if tou read them you should basically know what happened, (New X-men did this so I don't see why others wouldn't)

[Nick Kal]

They already lost their powers, this is all explained in HoM: The Day After. One double-sized One-Shot that sets up the various books coming out of HoM. And considering that New Excalibir and New X-Men also recap what happened, there's nothing stopping one from following any of the books without reading the mini, or any of the titles coming off of HoM. They're all self-contained, inside of a larger continuity storyline.

Now how were the countdown minis different from this? Countdown sets up the minis. IC is recapping what has happened.

[Nick Kal]

So if you can enjoY X-factor, without reading HOM, what are you complaining about?

I don't get it? Sure people will be able to jump on the DCU with OYL, no-ones doubting that, I think Queseda said as much in his interview didn't he?

I read HoM... and I know that if I didn't I would still be able to enjoy X-Factor much like if you didn't read the Countdown minis and just read IC.

[Twigglet]

I read HoM... and I know that if I didn't I would still be able to enjoy X-Factor much like if you didn't read the Countdown minis and just read IC.

But I read IC without reading the minis or the original crisis.... and I was lost, I didn't understand much of anything.

[jetter_cheeze]

You don't even have to have read HoM, for that one book to explain everything you need to know to you. :)

The same could be said for IC. The only Countdown book i read was THe Omac Project, i got what happened in the other minis from the first two issues of IC. They even had a recap of everything that happeneed in the original Crisis in the second issue.

To me, DC is doing what Marvel always promises they will do, have change really affect their books. Dc is goind to jump all their book's timelines one year forward, and they are going to have lasting changes happen. "No More Mutants" Will be reversed, Dr. Strange will take care of that. Magneto will become Magneto again, a movie will be taking care of that.

If you look at how Joe responds to the questions, he constantly states that if you like House of M, you'll like this mini, or that mini. Wouldn't that still make House of M required reading for that story? (Or Day after, if you want to get what house of m should have been - a one shot story) And if you pick up House of M, your not going to know what happened before in Astonishing or New Avengers unless you've read those stories because Bendis didn't do any kind of job towards letting the reader know what has been happening in those books. Hell, if you didn't read Disassembled you were lost on what was going on with Hawkeye and why it was such a big deal that he came back in house of M. DC at least has Crisis Counseling, which shows how well DC is catering to their audience. They are getting people to go to their website to find out about information about what is going on in their comic books. We all know that Little kids love to go on the net and they find it to be one great source of entertainment. Go to a website for free to find out what is going on in comic books that you can't afford to get? What a crazy idea that is...

If Marvel really wanted to get kids into a comic store like they say they want to they would be mirroring Crisis Counseling with something for house of M. Sending marketing materials to comic shops to advertise to people who already buy the comics seems redundant. Why did i need to get a poster shown to me that looks exactly like the ads they have been stapling in the middle of all my marvel comics telling me what comics are affected by House of M? Redundant see redundant.

[Erkoban]

Quesada is making a couple of mistakes.

Or rather, miscalculations.

If you like House of M, you'll like the spin off mini-series that deal with the aftermath. Unfortunately, by splintering the titles into several mini-series, you break down your reader-base. Because not everybody liked House of M, and those who didn't might not be as inclined to pick up any of the new miniseries. Budget constraints limit readers to buy 4 or so mini-series that spun out of the event, because they are published simultaneously. People who liked House of M, but only really liked certain aspects of characters will gravitate towards only certain titles, and not others.

say, 100 people read House of M.

90 of them liked the event.

20 of them will move on to read the oneshot, and then decide on not to buy the mini-series because of budget constraints, or general desinterest They'll just stick to the ongoing titles they were already reading.

30 of them won't even read the oneshot, and just continue with reading their ongoing titles, and perhaps pick up a new ongoing title spinning out of House of M. But they won't touch the mini-series.

40 people are left.

20 will pick up a couple of miniseries, and continue reading their ongoing titles.

20 will pick up all the mini-series spinning out of this.

You fracture your reader base.

And influx of new readers is exceptional, due to the state the industry is in, but also because tie-in events and spin off mini-series aren't easy jump-on points, it's starting diner when everybody else is already starting their dessert.

But Quesada is telling us that none of the new mini-series are essential reading, they'll have no impact on the general lines, they oly add a fun epilogue to several different elements of the original event. They seem to answer that nagging "what happened to..." question.

The tie ins to HoM were pretty pointless looking back at the whole event. Because every tie-in was constrained and incapable of building anything that seemed important. Because they were not allowed to progress the main plot or change the situation. Side-tracked stories that served to fill up the void the mini-series created. (ironically more happened in certain spin offs then in the original event.)

[Will.S]

The same could be said for IC. The only Countdown book i read was THe Omac Project, i got what happened in the other minis from the first two issues of IC. They even had a recap of everything that happeneed in the original Crisis in the second issue.
I agree that DC has been very good in not forcing to read the mini's in order to enjoy Infinite Crisis since they have that nice Crisis Counseling info on their website and the book sort of just takes the tail end of each mini and starts off there.

The only flaw about it is that it basically does all the work for you so that you pretty much don't have to pick up and read the comic once they fill you in. You just get a firmer grasp of what happened seeing it first hand.

To me, DC is doing what Marvel always promises they will do, have change really affect their books. Dc is goind to jump all their book's timelines one year forward, and they are going to have lasting changes happen. "No More Mutants" Will be reversed, Dr. Strange will take care of that. Magneto will become Magneto again, a movie will be taking care of that.
I think Joe realizes that even after his tenure is over, everything old will be new again. It's a very cyclical thing in comics so it's nothing people don't already know but like others have said, I think it's just best to enjoy what's coming out of the event instead of worrying about things reverting to status quo because it's an inevitable fact.

We all know HoM will mainly affect the mutant titles so if you like that area of the MU, you're sure to be reading the after effects of it somewhere down the line because the continuity of HoM will have to be addressed. The regular MU barring New Avengers....probably not so much but the titles should have an awareness of what happened to a rather large community of super powered people.

If you look at how Joe responds to the questions, he constantly states that if you like House of M, you'll like this mini, or that mini. Wouldn't that still make House of M required reading for that story? (Or Day after, if you want to get what house of m should have been - a one shot story)
Well House of M is the big status quo changing point of the MU thus far so it's the biggest point of reference to compare to. Joe's really telling you what title has been most affected by House of M so if you liked House of M you'll most likely be interested in what title benefits the most out that event. Otherwise there are other titles which merely only need to use HoM as reference to drive the oncoming story and really The Day After sets up a good deal of new and upcoming books as well as the ones which are changed by them.

There is also a difference between House of M and Infinite Crisis, House of M is somewhat doing a reverse of Infinite Crisis since the big event happened with the repurcussions running throughout the future books. Countdown to Infinite Crisis and it's tie-ins have been gradually building up to the mega event to then have the "year after" running throughout the books. There was also more preparation for the DC event with 3 stages:

1) Build up (Identity Crisis, Countdown to Infinite Crisis among other titles)
2) Climax (Infinite Crisis)
3) After effects (Year After)

So there you go.

And if you pick up House of M, your not going to know what happened before in Astonishing or New Avengers unless you've read those stories because Bendis didn't do any kind of job towards letting the reader know what has been happening in those books. Hell, if you didn't read Disassembled you were lost on what was going on with Hawkeye and why it was such a big deal that he came back in house of M.
House of M mainly came from Avengers Disassembled (which is entirely recapped within the first page of House of M) and wasn't really that long in the making other than in Brian Bendis's head in which he wanted to continue a whole "Wanda is nuts" story. Astonishing X-Men ended way before HoM so other than actual lineup and status quo of characters it wasn't required reading to understand House of M. I also don't think MadroX is required reading to enjoy and understand X-Factor although it helps to understand the characters a bit better and to know how it had it's humble beginnings as a one may private eye firm with a small supporting cast. HoM happens and you have a couple of more characters in the mix investigating what really happened in that event.

also from a story standpoint Hawkeye wasn't that big of a deal nor was he such a vital character towards House of M other than being a fan favorite who people didn't expect to come back so soon.

DC at least has Crisis Counseling, which shows how well DC is catering to their audience. They are getting people to go to their website to find out about information about what is going on in their comic books. We all know that Little kids love to go on the net and they find it to be one great source of entertainment. Go to a website for free to find out what is going on in comic books that you can't afford to get? What a crazy idea that is...

If Marvel really wanted to get kids into a comic store like they say they want to they would be mirroring Crisis Counseling with something for house of M. Sending marketing materials to comic shops to advertise to people who already buy the comics seems redundant.
Are kids really the target audiences for these books though? I doubt that with comic prices these days and all the books that are tied to the events, their budgets would even allow for so much reading which does give validity to your point about the Crisis Counseling but like I said, I think it's main flaw is that it gives a bit TOO much information without seeing it first hand so it kinf of ruins the surprise of going to the store, reading it and anticipating what's next.

Why did i need to get a poster shown to me that looks exactly like the ads they have been stapling in the middle of all my marvel comics telling me what comics are affected by House of M? Redundant see redundant.
Not sure what poster you're referring to here but I think the ads are helpful in showing you what titles are affected by the change without giving too much away.

[Titan76]

Both Marvel and DC are gulity of tie ins period. If anyone says otherwise its the fanboy part talking. Teen Titains is the only on-going book I read at DC, so mostly all my books come from Marvel. Marvel is guality of tie ins just like DC is as well. However not all of the tie ins are in fact required to read because one both have been giving recaps in their books. Second what Marvel is doing with HoM now that the story is over is what DC did to build IC.

If you want to know what happen to Xavier during all of this you have to read Deadly Genesis. If you want to know all of the mutants who lost their powers you have to read Gen. M. If you want to know what happen to Quicksilver you have to read Son of M. If you want to know what Wolverine is going to do now that he remembers his whole life you have to read his solo series now. If you want to know what is going on with the Sentials you have to read that series also. This is just like DC and their 4 minis that happen before IC. However, everything that happen in those mins are being recap right now in IC. Maybe when all the minis that Marvel is doing right now will be recap in the X-men ongoings as well.

For people to say that DC is the bad guy for doing all of this and Marvel is the good guy is nuts. Both are doing it and that is fact. Both are just doing it in different ways but the basics are still their. If you want to know what has happen before or after Marvel's/DC's big event you have to pick up a mini and that is fact.

[Absolut_Fresh]

:rolleyes: i see both sides of the coin on this one....while yes, the Day After and HoM were pretty self contained they essential accomplished very little and only left bigger questions inevitably leading to the necessary purchase of the tie-ins and splinter ongoing series.

its a money game for both companies no matter how you look at it. quantity and sales vs quality and long tim fans. they flood the market with sub par work and expect us to run out like lemmings and purchase everything with a HoM logo or IC tie in on the cover. execs like Quesada can SAY "you dont have to buy these....blah blah blah" but if that were the case wouldnt more questions have been answered at the end of HoM and with the Day After instead of only leaving us with more?

its sort of like the old AoA event. Sure, you didnt HAVE to buy all the titles, but by the time Omega came around if you hadnt follwed all the titles you were lost as last years Easter egg, BUT at least with Omega we were given some solidarity....some closure to our increased buying. HoM, in my opinion, MIGHT just be the most anti-climatic "event" i can remember in a long while. it had parts i enjoyed but for the most part could have easily been summed up in about half the issues, esp if Marvel planned for the minis and splinter on goings to carry most of the aftermath load.

so say what you will, 10 bucks says that if you dont buy, say, Son of M....there isnt going to be much said about ol Pietro in other titles, or if you dont by Gen M...you arent going to be hearing much about certain depowered mutants in the other books. haha

[bert]

Yeah, but all it's doing is filling in the missing year in more or less real time. That's if Morrison and friends actually manages to keep it on the weekly schedule.


DC doesn't have NEAR the (missed) shipping history that Marvel has.

let's face it, Marvel is all about the hype.

Joe Q doesn't have to take shots at DC (as someone else stated was his job). . he does it because it's childish, and it's "cool" to the Marvel target audience -- immature little boys who read "Wizard."

and that's fine, if that's who they want to go after. . . but it's not for me.

He's spinning the House of M tie-ins to make it look like Marvel isn't yanking the audience to make it look like DC was doing something bad.

Both event titles included tons of spin-offs. . . . it's the nature of the beast. Of course, months later, and I'm still hearing folks talking about "Villains United" "OMAC" (and to a lesser extent, "Day of Vengeance" and "Rann Thanagar"). The only things I ever hear about the Marvel tie-ins are complaints about how they didn't really relate (and I honestly have heard NOTHING about the FF or the Iron Man one. . all I hear about is the Spidey one).

Heck, I bought the Hulk -- so I got the "HoM" issues.. .and I can say that while they were ok reads, I don't see why they had to tie-in, in the first place. (since Hulk wasn't in HoM, and books w/ characters that WERE in HoM (like Avengers and Astonishing) chose to ignore it. . yeah yeah. . the stories took place before it. . .same thing as ignoring it, unless we are about to get an arc set during HoM now that the prior arcs are complete).



oh. . .and because I'm sure someone will mention it. . yeah. . DC does have some shipping issues. In my opinion, not anywhere NEAR as bad as Marvel's (show me a DC book that had months between issues (or even a year) - Astonishing, Secret War, Spidy/Black Cat. . . if the shoe fits guys.. . )

anyways. . in regards to "52" staying on schedule?

DC was never late w/ Action Comics Weekly. Every week it was on time. Yeah, the book wasn't always "good" (storytelling wise), but it WAS always on time.

just my 2cents.

bert

[Crimson]

Joe Q doesn't have to take shots at DC (as someone else stated was his job). . he does it because it's childish, and it's "cool" to the Marvel target audience -- immature little boys who read "Wizard."


Its not for you... yet you just took a shot at alot of people who post on the Marvle boards?

[Twigglet]

DC doesn't have NEAR the (missed) shipping history that Marvel has.

let's face it, Marvel is all about the hype.

Joe Q doesn't have to take shots at DC (as someone else stated was his job). . he does it because it's childish, and it's "cool" to the Marvel target audience -- immature little boys who read "Wizard."

and that's fine, if that's who they want to go after. . . but it's not for me.

He's spinning the House of M tie-ins to make it look like Marvel isn't yanking the audience to make it look like DC was doing something bad.

Both event titles included tons of spin-offs. . . . it's the nature of the beast. Of course, months later, and I'm still hearing folks talking about "Villains United" "OMAC" (and to a lesser extent, "Day of Vengeance" and "Rann Thanagar"). The only things I ever hear about the Marvel tie-ins are complaints about how they didn't really relate (and I honestly have heard NOTHING about the FF or the Iron Man one. . all I hear about is the Spidey one).

Heck, I bought the Hulk -- so I got the "HoM" issues.. .and I can say that while they were ok reads, I don't see why they had to tie-in, in the first place. (since Hulk wasn't in HoM, and books w/ characters that WERE in HoM (like Avengers and Astonishing) chose to ignore it. . yeah yeah. . the stories took place before it. . .same thing as ignoring it, unless we are about to get an arc set during HoM now that the prior arcs are complete).



oh. . .and because I'm sure someone will mention it. . yeah. . DC does have some shipping issues. In my opinion, not anywhere NEAR as bad as Marvel's (show me a DC book that had months between issues (or even a year) - Astonishing, Secret War, Spidy/Black Cat. . . if the shoe fits guys.. . )

anyways. . in regards to "52" staying on schedule?

DC was never late w/ Action Comics Weekly. Every week it was on time. Yeah, the book wasn't always "good" (storytelling wise), but it WAS always on time.

just my 2cents.

bert

Well here is the DC delayed books for the last month. From Newsarma

DC
Superman Secret Files 2005 11/09/05 - 11/23/05
Superman/Shazam: First Thunder #3 11/02/05 - 11/23/05
Adventures Of Superman #646 11/23/05 - 11/30/05
All Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder #3 10/26/05 - 11/30/05
Green Lantern #6 10/26/05 - 11/30/05
Legion of Super-Heroes #12 11/23/05 - 11/30/05
Tom Strong #36 12/14/05 - 01/04/06
Ex Machina #18 12/21/05 - 01/18/06
Tomorrow Stories Special #1 10/26/05 - 11/16/05
Ex Machina #16 10/19/05 - 11/23/05
Green Lantern Corps: Recharge #3 11/16/05 - 11/23/05
Seven Soldiers: Frankenstein #1 11/16/05 - 11/23/05
Seven Soldiers: Zatanna #4 10/05/05 - 11/23/05
Top 10: Beyond The Farthest Precinct #4 11/16/05 - 11/23/05
Wraithborn #3 11/16/05 - 11/23/05
Green Lantern #5 09/28/05 - 11/09/05
Seven Soldiers: Zatanna #4 10/05/05 - 11/09/05
Tomorrow Stories Special #1 10/26/05 - 11/09/05
Ex Machina #16 10/19/05 - 11/16/05
Superman Secret Files 2005 11/09/05 - 11/16/05
Tom Strong #35 10/12/05 - 11/23/05
Green Lantern #5 09/28/05 - 11/02/05
Tomorrow Stories Special #1 10/26/05 - 11/02/05
Vigilante #2 10/26/05 - 11/02/05
Wildsiderz #2 10/12/05 - 11/02/05
Winter Men #3 10/12/05 - 11/02/05
All Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder #3 10/26/05 - 11/16/05
Supergirl #3 10/12/05 - 11/16/05
Superman/Shazam: First Thunder #3 11/02/05 - 11/16/05
Ex Machina #16 10/19/05 - 11/23/05
Teen Titans #30 11/16/05 - 11/23/05
Albion #4 10/26/05 - 12/07/05
Ex Machina #17 11/16/05 - 12/21/05
Albion #5 11/30/05 - 12/28/05
Winter Men #3 11/09/05 - 12/28/05
JSA Classified #4 10/19/05 - 10/26/05
Teen Titans #28 09/21/05 - 10/26/05
Wildsiderz #2 10/12/05 - 10/26/05
Winter Men #3 10/12/05 - 10/26/05
Seven Soldiers: Zatanna #4 10/05/05 - 11/02/05
Teen Titans #29 10/19/05 - 11/09/05

So I see Teen Titans, Green Lantern, Super-man/Shazam, Superman secret files, Superman/Batman, Seven Soldiers, Tom Strong, Winter Man, Wildsiderz, All Star Batman and Robin, Ex Machina and Tomorrow Stories Special delayed by 3 weeks or more.

This is not forgetting that ASS should be out by now, and will definitly be late.

[Titan76]

Guys, both Marvel and DC have late books. Sometimes Marvel has more and sometimes DC has more. If you are going to take the time and add them up every month and every year then I suggest you get out more right now. That is a pointless debate right there. One month Marvel may have 10 books that are late and DC may only have 4. The next month DC may have 10 and Marvel may have 4. Both companies have late books ALL the time and it doesn't look like it will ever stop since they have BOTH been doing this for years and it still hasn't stop yet.

[Beast]

Guys, both Marvel and DC have late books. Sometimes Marvel has more and sometimes DC has more. If you are going to take the time and add them up every month and every year then I suggest you get out more right now. That is a pointless debate right there. One month Marvel may have 10 books that are late and DC may only have 4. The next month DC may have 10 and Marvel may have 4. Both companies have late books ALL the time and it doesn't look like it will ever stop since they have BOTH been doing this for years and it still hasn't stop yet.
We weren't the ones claiming that Marvel always has late books, unlike DC. ;)

[bert]

Its not for you... yet you just took a shot at alot of people who post on the Marvle boards?


nope. .

didnt' take a shot at the Marvel board.

I said that's Marvel's target audience. Doesn't mean that IS thier audience (at least not all of it).

I don't fit into that category, and I read Marvel books. Several of the Marvel board posters I've met in "real life" also don't fall into that category. . .(in fact, I'd venture to say that the majority of the posters here on the CBR Marvel boards are in the late 20's to late 30's age range. . . CBR always did seem to attract an older skewing comics reading audience).

still doesn't change the fact that Quesada's "attack the competition" "in your face" promotion style is going after an immature crowd (and I know advertising strategy -- Bachelor of Science Degree from the University of Texas in Advertising).

His strategy and "pitch" are not for me. . I still read some of the books.

Sorry if you think my interpretation of the facts was a "shot" at some of the people here. It really wasn't.

[bert]

So I see Teen Titans, Green Lantern, Super-man/Shazam, Superman secret files, Superman/Batman, Seven Soldiers, Tom Strong, Winter Man, Wildsiderz, All Star Batman and Robin, Ex Machina and Tomorrow Stories Special delayed by 3 weeks or more.

This is not forgetting that ASS should be out by now, and will definitly be late.

. . . and I said "show me a book that had Months between issues (or even a year)"

none of the above even come close to the delays in Astonishing, Secret War, or Spidey/Black Cat.

so yeah. . heck, even I started out by saying it was my opinion that even tho DC has late books, they are no where NEAR as bad as Marvel.

yous list kinda backs up my point. . even tho it is just my opinion.

[bert]

We weren't the ones claiming that Marvel always has late books, unlike DC. ;)



well. . except that I was up front saying DC has shipping issues.

yep, it's right there in my original post.

hmmm. . . .

how very Quesada / George W. Bush of you! turn it around on the person making the statement, and put them on the defensive ;)


see? I put a "winky" too. . so I guess my snark is OK, right ?

[BizarroBeachHead]

If you want to know what happen to Xavier during all of this you have to read Deadly Genesis. If you want to know all of the mutants who lost their powers you have to read Gen. M. If you want to know what happen to Quicksilver you have to read Son of M. If you want to know what Wolverine is going to do now that he remembers his whole life you have to read his solo series now. If you want to know what is going on with the Sentials you have to read that series also. This is just like DC and their 4 minis that happen before IC. However, everything that happen in those mins are being recap right now in IC. Maybe when all the minis that Marvel is doing right now will be recap in the X-men ongoings as well.

For people to say that DC is the bad guy for doing all of this and Marvel is the good guy is nuts. Both are doing it and that is fact. Both are just doing it in different ways but the basics are still their. If you want to know what has happen before or after Marvel's/DC's big event you have to pick up a mini and that is fact.Dude, you hit the nail on the head.

I was very excited about House of M. I was ready for the story and even more ready for the changes. Now that it's "over" I can honestly say it was drawn out, scattered and had zero resolution. I feel like I wasted all my money on tie ins that were pointless and in some cases conflicted with the main story. What really makes me angry though, is that once Marvel had me hooked on getting House of M, I find that I have to get another slew of tie in books to get any sort of ending. That really upset me. House of M kind of left a bad taste for Marvel in my mouth so I won't be following any of the Decimation tie in books(except X-Factor, because I've been commited to that since the MadroX mini). Fortunately, my regular books are largely unaffected.

[Crimson]

nope. .

didnt' take a shot at the Marvel board.

I said that's Marvel's target audience. Doesn't mean that IS thier audience (at least not all of it).

I don't fit into that category, and I read Marvel books. Several of the Marvel board posters I've met in "real life" also don't fall into that category. . .(in fact, I'd venture to say that the majority of the posters here on the CBR Marvel boards are in the late 20's to late 30's age range. . . CBR always did seem to attract an older skewing comics reading audience).

still doesn't change the fact that Quesada's "attack the competition" "in your face" promotion style is going after an immature crowd (and I know advertising strategy -- Bachelor of Science Degree from the University of Texas in Advertising).

His strategy and "pitch" are not for me. . I still read some of the books.

Sorry if you think my interpretation of the facts was a "shot" at some of the people here. It really wasn't.

Oh ok. Then I apologize too. Simple misunderstanding.

[Nick Kal]

The same could be said for IC. The only Countdown book i read was THe Omac Project, i got what happened in the other minis from the first two issues of IC. They even had a recap of everything that happeneed in the original Crisis in the second issue.

To me, DC is doing what Marvel always promises they will do, have change really affect their books. Dc is goind to jump all their book's timelines one year forward, and they are going to have lasting changes happen. "No More Mutants" Will be reversed, Dr. Strange will take care of that. Magneto will become Magneto again, a movie will be taking care of that.

If you look at how Joe responds to the questions, he constantly states that if you like House of M, you'll like this mini, or that mini. Wouldn't that still make House of M required reading for that story? (Or Day after, if you want to get what house of m should have been - a one shot story) And if you pick up House of M, your not going to know what happened before in Astonishing or New Avengers unless you've read those stories because Bendis didn't do any kind of job towards letting the reader know what has been happening in those books. Hell, if you didn't read Disassembled you were lost on what was going on with Hawkeye and why it was such a big deal that he came back in house of M. DC at least has Crisis Counseling, which shows how well DC is catering to their audience. They are getting people to go to their website to find out about information about what is going on in their comic books. We all know that Little kids love to go on the net and they find it to be one great source of entertainment. Go to a website for free to find out what is going on in comic books that you can't afford to get? What a crazy idea that is...

If Marvel really wanted to get kids into a comic store like they say they want to they would be mirroring Crisis Counseling with something for house of M. Sending marketing materials to comic shops to advertise to people who already buy the comics seems redundant. Why did i need to get a poster shown to me that looks exactly like the ads they have been stapling in the middle of all my marvel comics telling me what comics are affected by House of M? Redundant see redundant.

Way to go dude... You covered stuff that I forgot at 3 a.m.

[jetter_cheeze]

I agree that DC has been very good in not forcing to read the mini's in order to enjoy Infinite Crisis since they have that nice Crisis Counseling info on their website and the book sort of just takes the tail end of each mini and starts off there.

The only flaw about it is that it basically does all the work for you so that you pretty much don't have to pick up and read the comic once they fill you in. You just get a firmer grasp of what happened seeing it first hand.

By knwoing what happens though could provide a better understanding of what is going on. I don't know all of the DC universe, i am mostly a bat-fan. I'll still go and pick up the comics im interested in, and its good to know that if a particular storyline, say Villians united, didn't interest me they really aren't forcing me to buy it and i still get to know what is going on in it.

I think the Crisis counseling is good in this regards. DC is still selling books though. People are still buying it and going to their website, which is good all around for DC, and according to the latest sales numbers, are selling the mini's and specials in greater numbers than what House of M had.

We all know HoM will mainly affect the mutant titles so if you like that area of the MU, you're sure to be reading the after effects of it somewhere down the line because the continuity of HoM will have to be addressed. The regular MU barring New Avengers....probably not so much but the titles should have an awareness of what happened to a rather large community of super powered people.

See, this is Marvel has failed me in the past. "Lasting effects" is a great use of words in a solicts. "This event changes everything" is seen in almost every solicts that every comic company sends out each month. Most comics also ignore continuity, so forcing a book to address certain continuity, especially a Marvel book, seems very laughable. New York being devastated by Magneto is one exmple that comes to mind. The constant debates over if Genosha can have electricity or not is another, and this is just in X-Men. One writer will rarely address another writer's book and what took place in it unless its something like House of M. Joss Whedon gave an interview not too long ago where he talked about editorial mishaps and lack of continuity among the writers. My impression of DC is different. they sem to want to wrok together to develope IC, save for Devin Grayson. I put more faith in DC's ability to really change things in their universe as opposed to marvel.

There is also a difference between House of M and Infinite Crisis, House of M is somewhat doing a reverse of Infinite Crisis since the big event happened with the repurcussions running throughout the future books. Countdown to Infinite Crisis and it's tie-ins have been gradually building up to the mega event to then have the "year after" running throughout the books. There was also more preparation for the DC event with 3 stages:

1) Build up (Identity Crisis, Countdown to Infinite Crisis among other titles)
2) Climax (Infinite Crisis)
3) After effects (Year After)

So there you go.

Precisely, Marvel needed something to try and compete with what DC has had in the works for awhile, and Marvel simply isn't organized enough for an effort like that.

House of M mainly came from Avengers Disassembled (which is entirely recapped within the first page of House of M) and wasn't really that long in the making other than in Brian Bendis's head in which he wanted to continue a whole "Wanda is nuts" story. Astonishing X-Men ended way before HoM so other than actual lineup and status quo of characters it wasn't required reading to understand House of M. I also don't think MadroX is required reading to enjoy and understand X-Factor although it helps to understand the characters a bit better and to know how it had it's humble beginnings as a one may private eye firm with a small supporting cast. HoM happens and you have a couple of more characters in the mix investigating what really happened in that event.

also from a story standpoint Hawkeye wasn't that big of a deal nor was he such a vital character towards House of M other than being a fan favorite who people didn't expect to come back so soon.

To me, Madrox leading into X-Factor is different from House of M leading into the Decimation event. Madrox had its story that had a beginning, middle, and end, and the end result is something that a sequel could be spun out of. You didn't really need to carry on the story. House of M you do though. Marvel has too big of a mutant community to say "no more mutants" and then walk away. Hell, even the letter at the end of Madrox said when the timing appears right that they might be able to continue the story. Oppurtunity seeems to be knocking...

Are kids really the target audiences for these books though? I doubt that with comic prices these days and all the books that are tied to the events, their budgets would even allow for so much reading which does give validity to your point about the Crisis Counseling but like I said, I think it's main flaw is that it gives a bit TOO much information without seeing it first hand so it kinf of ruins the surprise of going to the store, reading it and anticipating what's next.

According to Joe, every series has the aim to try to encourage kids to pick up the books. He wants each story to be as accessible to new readers as to old ones. Considering how much you would pay for a children's book at the bookstore, a comic book seems WAY cheaper. For Marvel, kids are the targets. Look at the toys that they market each year alone. Do you honestly think that big Thing and Hulk hands were made with 18-24 yr olds in mind?

Not sure what poster you're referring to here but I think the ads are helpful in showing you what titles are affected by the change without giving too much away.

They were mini promo posters that my shop had next to the new comics rack that were the exact same as the ads they have inside all marvel issues. It seemed to me to be an overkill of marketing and advertising to the same target audience-the ones who know where the comic shop is. Marvel just seems to have a problem with advertising lately....

[Will.S]

By knwoing what happens though could provide a better understanding of what is going on. I don't know all of the DC universe, i am mostly a bat-fan. I'll still go and pick up the comics im interested in, and its good to know that if a particular storyline, say Villians united, didn't interest me they really aren't forcing me to buy it and i still get to know what is going on in it.

I think the Crisis counseling is good in this regards. DC is still selling books though. People are still buying it and going to their website, which is good all around for DC, and according to the latest sales numbers, are selling the mini's and specials in greater numbers than what House of M had.
Infinite Crisis is pretty continuity heavy though so by it's nature readers would need all the info they can get whereas HoM didn't have nor need that much exposition. Although yes it would help out more, DC's IC like I said is different almost requiring a checklist of books and info of which contribute towards the event. HoM didn't really need it as much as IC did since most of the mini's and tie-ins were self contained.

But yeah overall DC is doing a great job in this dept especially in the IC book where they recap the first Crisis in issue #2 and so on.

See, this is Marvel has failed me in the past. "Lasting effects" is a great use of words in a solicts. "This event changes everything" is seen in almost every solicts that every comic company sends out each month. Most comics also ignore continuity, so forcing a book to address certain continuity, especially a Marvel book, seems very laughable. New York being devastated by Magneto is one exmple that comes to mind. The constant debates over if Genosha can have electricity or not is another, and this is just in X-Men. One writer will rarely address another writer's book and what took place in it unless its something like House of M. Joss Whedon gave an interview not too long ago where he talked about editorial mishaps and lack of continuity among the writers. My impression of DC is different. they sem to want to wrok together to develope IC, save for Devin Grayson. I put more faith in DC's ability to really change things in their universe as opposed to marvel.
Heh time will tell really but I think Marvel is improving little by little with the upcoming Illuminati stuff, Planet Hulk and possibly the Decimation. I would highly agree that DC is certainly doing the best it's ever been in regards to having some great editorial collaboration especially with the whole *52 concept.

Precisely, Marvel needed something to try and compete with what DC has had in the works for awhile, and Marvel simply isn't organized enough for an effort like that.
While I would love to see Marvel try something that epic in scale (last I rememeber was probably Secret Wars, Infinite Gauntlet and JLA/Avengers which was a joint effort by a writer well versed in both universes) I don't think Marvel needs it as much as DC since Marvel to me always has something interesting for me creatively but DC has been steadily improving with their new stable of great "go to" writers such as Johns (who's had an insane amount of output with Flash, Teen Titans, Green Lantern Rebirth, Countdown, Infinite Crisis and more) Rucka (Wonder Woman, OMAC Project, Adventures of Superman), Waid, Morrison (Seven Soldiers, All-Star), Willingham and Simone.

To me, Madrox leading into X-Factor is different from House of M leading into the Decimation event. Madrox had its story that had a beginning, middle, and end, and the end result is something that a sequel could be spun out of. You didn't really need to carry on the story. House of M you do though. Marvel has too big of a mutant community to say "no more mutants" and then walk away. Hell, even the letter at the end of Madrox said when the timing appears right that they might be able to continue the story. Oppurtunity seeems to be knocking...
I think it makes sense from a business and continuity standpoint to have another X-title benefit from their biggest event since it is another mutant book coming out hot on the heels of HoM. It would be in Peter David's best interest though to not heavily rely on the reader to have to read the mini but have at least some awareness that it happened. At the very least The Day after would be a starting point. It seems to me that you take issue with the way House of M segways into a whole new chapter of stories instead of having definitive closure which I can understand. I don't think it always has to happen that way in order for me to enjoy it though.

According to Joe, every series has the aim to try to encourage kids to pick up the books. He wants each story to be as accessible to new readers as to old ones. Considering how much you would pay for a children's book at the bookstore, a comic book seems WAY cheaper. For Marvel, kids are the targets. Look at the toys that they market each year alone. Do you honestly think that big Thing and Hulk hands were made with 18-24 yr olds in mind?
I agree but only to an extent. The comic and toy market aren't really going after the same type of consumer so you're comparison doesn't quite hold up. Usually those Hulk and Thing hands came from the movie marketing of those characters which are indeed directed towards the younger crowd but not neccessarily the 18-24 crowd.

I honestly think Joe's deluding himself a bit thinking that kids will suddenly flock to comics when it's really the movies and merchandise that are succeeding more.

They were mini promo posters that my shop had next to the new comics rack that were the exact same as the ads they have inside all marvel issues. It seemed to me to be an overkill of marketing and advertising to the same target audience-the ones who know where the comic shop is. Marvel just seems to have a problem with advertising lately....
I don't think there's anything wrong with making people aware with their product and to be honest Marvel isn't soley to blame for not thinking outside the box. DC doesn't exactly advertise a whole lot of their comics either.

[StoneGold]

Joe Q doesn't have to take shots at DC (as someone else stated was his job). . he does it because it's childish, and it's "cool" to the Marvel target audience -- immature little boys who read "Wizard."

bert
Where does Joe actually bash anything here? Is stating that Marvel is doing something different mean that what DC is doing is crap? Hell, he gives props to 52.

[Nick Kal]

Where does Joe actually bash anything here? Is stating that Marvel is doing something different mean that what DC is doing is crap? Hell, he gives props to 52.

His jabs are at Crisis Counseling here, and he's specifically bashed them in past interviews.

[jetter_cheeze]

I agree but only to an extent. The comic and toy market aren't really going after the same type of consumer so you're comparison doesn't quite hold up. Usually those Hulk and Thing hands came from the movie marketing of those characters which are indeed directed towards the younger crowd but not neccessarily the 18-24 crowd.

According to Joe, they are. If Joe wants to aim his comics towards kids, and the toy department obviously wants to do the same, then it makes sense that the comparison is valid. so...

I honestly think Joe's deluding himself a bit thinking that kids will suddenly flock to comics when it's really the movies and merchandise that are succeeding more.

..you can see how Marvel fails. Marvel tries to sell their books as something kid friendly when its not. Was house of M an accessable story that new readers could get into? Especially kids, their so called target audience? The short answer is no.

I don't think there's anything wrong with making people aware with their product and to be honest Marvel isn't soley to blame for not thinking outside the box. DC doesn't exactly advertise a whole lot of their comics either.

Advertising for most comics are non-existant. Marvel's just seemed a little more redundant to me.

[bert]

double post. . .

[bert]

Where does Joe actually bash anything here? Is stating that Marvel is doing something different mean that what DC is doing is crap? Hell, he gives props to 52.


nah SG. . I wasn't talking specific about this.

I was just tossing in a response to someone saying that bashing DC was part of JoeQ's job. . .hang on a sec. . I'll get the quote.

And Quesada is SUPPOSED to knock the competition in interviews. He's Marvel's public face, it's his job.



there ya go.

I was just responding to this statement. . not necessarily to the topic of the thread

sorry to be confusing.

bert

[Will.S]

..you can see how Marvel fails. Marvel tries to sell their books as something kid friendly when its not. Was house of M an accessable story that new readers could get into? Especially kids, their so called target audience? The short answer is no.
I thought House of M was pretty accessible myself but I honestly don't think Marvel was targeting kids for House of M.