Severus Snape: Villain or not?

[Legato]

If any of you have read HBP or have heard what happened in HBP then you know the purpose of this thread.

The question of this debate is do you think Snape is a traitor and turned evil or is thare more to what had happened during Dumbledore's death in HBP?

[OmegaGuy]

He's a n00b.

[Gorthaur]

Wrong board?

But no, I don't think he's a villain. There are several things I think point to this, but since there are so many more HP fans out there that are both more attentive and more zealous about it, I think I'll leave the actual debate to them.

[literally exaggerated]

No, I don't think he is. For several reason.

1st and foremost, we still have yet to hear a number of "reveals". Namely, what Snape and DD were arguing about that Snape said he didn't want to do anymore, and why DD trusted Snape in the first place. The latter has been one of the most consistent mysteries in the series since Book 4 at least.

In most books, and always so far in Harry Potter, when the answer to a mystery like that is revealed, it is important, and changes our perceptions of what has been going on. Like Sirius being innocent, or Tom Riddle being Voldemort.

So, if we have yet to hear one fairly important reveal, and one absolutely vital, major reveal about Snape, his relationship to DD and who he is as a character, that means that when we do hear it, it is going to be surprising, and it is going to matter.

If DD's reason for trusting Snape was trivial or wrong, then there would be absolutely no reason to still keep us in the dark about why he did so. The reveal would be pointless. Snape says "DD trusted me because he thought I loved Lily (for example) but he was wrong. I really am evil, just like you were all shown way back in the 2nd chapter of HBP" and then he goes on being pure evil. Doesn't make any sense from a structural standpoint. When we find out why DD trusted Snape, it is going to matter, and it is going to change things, and even if it doesn't necessarily surprise some readers, it is sure as hell gonna blow Harry away. Because thats how JKR works. Its how every writer who knows the slightest thing about plotting writes.


2.) These are mostly tangential to the primary point above, but...

The ambiguous nature of DD's "please". DD does not plead. He's not a man who begs for his life. He could be pleading for Snape not to turn to evil, but the fact that there is so much debate over what he was pleading for, and that there is a very real possiblity that he was pleading for Snape to do what he had told him to do, leads me to believe that, at the very least, there is more to that scene than Harry is picking up on.

The way Snape freaked out when Harry accused him of being a coward for killing DD. Again, it could have just been his own guilt, but it was so ambiguous that I can't help but think JKR left it that way intentionally.

Snape saved DD's life at the beginning of HBP, when DD destroyed the ring Horcrux, it was Snape who saved him from death. He could have very easily not saved him and simply said "It was beyond my abilities", which would have lead to the death of DD while not even exposing Snape's cover.

[Donald Stone]

I'm in the camp that thinks Snape is still working on the good guys side. I think he killed Dumbledore for some very good reason that we haven't been made aware of, and I think Dumbledore knew and wanted him to do it.

Note, I don't think Snape is a good person, he's a vile, petty, vindictive asshole, but I do think he's on the right side.

[literally exaggerated]

Note, I don't think Snape is a good person, he's a vile, petty, vindictive asshole, but I do think he's on the right side.

He's also easily JKR's best character. By far her most complex character, by far the most consistently interesting character, he steals and elevates every scene he's in. His interactions with Sirius, and with Harry in the later books, are some of the best character moments in the entire series.

[Donald Stone]

He's also easily JKR's best character. By far her most complex character, by far the most consistently interesting character, he steals and elevates every scene he's in. His interactions with Sirius, and with Harry in the later books, are some of the best character moments in the entire series.I agree.

Never said he was a bad character, just that he was a bad person:)

[darkkeeperjr]

Snapes is like batman. he does some messed up stuff but he still on the side of good. His ends will justified his means.

[K'Nort]

I figure it's entirely possible that the character is really a bad guy but we're blinded by the coolness of Alan Rickman.

[Legato]

Snapes is like batman. he does some messed up stuff but he still on the side of good. His ends will justified his means.

Looking at the Lily/James/Snape scenes he seem to have a Wolverine thing going on. He has a mysterious past, had a crush on Lily but reguardless that she is into James and was bitter at James Potter because of that fact.

[Dennis K]

Well, seeing how I don't believe that Dumbledore is really dead, that it was part of some plan he arranged with Snape to "save" Draco Malfoy, I have to say that by the end of the series, Snape is going to do something very openly heroic, most likely sacrifice himself to save Harry.

[LordEd1976]

it was part of some plan he arranged with Snape to "save" Draco Malfoy, I have to say that by the end of the series, Snape is going to do something very openly heroic, most likely sacrifice himself to save Harry.

I think thats why DD said "please". i don't think his death was faked. Jk put too much into it for this to be fake. However, I believe DD took a fall to protect both Snape so he could be instrumental in defeating You-Know-Who and Malfoy because he didn't want to see any of his students die, no matter how evil.

DD and Snape may have discussed in the past the idea Snape may have to kill to keep You-Know-Who thinking he's still a Death Eater. Snape raged at harry for the 'coward" comment because he's pretty much sacrificing everything by killing DD for the sake of stopping You-Know-Who.

In the end you right Dennis, Snape will go down heroically setting things up so harry can fufill his destiny.

[Solaris]

He's also easily JKR's best character. By far her most complex character, by far the most consistently interesting character, he steals and elevates every scene he's in. His interactions with Sirius, and with Harry in the later books, are some of the best character moments in the entire series.


Wonderfully said, as was your prior post. :)

I agree---and there's been one consistent facet throughout the storyline that also supports all this: Harry has *always* taken Snape at face value, never *really* trusted him, and is the *perfect* choice to set up as the "bona fide" for Snape's pseudo-evil role as a Death Eater. If *Harry* believes Snape is evil, has betrayed their side, and killed Dumbledore... then Voldemort will believe it, too. Remember, Voldy's gotten into Harry's head before. It was *vital* to Snape's role as a double-agent that Harry DOES believe he's gone completely over to the bad guys.

And I also think that, deep down, Snape isn't as bad as he's been made out to be. Yes, often he's been a completely petty and unfair ass---but also, a lot of the reader's view of him comes *through Harry's eyes.* I think, in the end, Harry will discover that Severus was indeed human, with human frailties... but also good and noble, in his own fashion. I *hope* that Rowling will have the two reconcile, at least in laying down hatred, in the end of the last book... but we'll have to wait and see for that.

As for the movies, NO ONE could play the part of Severus Snape better than Alan Rickman. He IS Snape, when he dons the outfit. He pulls it off perfectly. I love that actor.

[Hiromi]

No, I personally don't think he is, however my official stance is I'll wait till the next book before passing judgement.

[shades of eternity]

Sometimes I wonder if the original role of slytherin was not to be a bunch of pureblood supremists, but to act as the underhand of the wizard community, doing things that others could not do due to honor.

If so, snape has shown this trait well.

[Nate C.]

Legato,

Check out the Harry Potter thread on this board. There are pages and pages of just this discussion.

And I say he's 1) her most complex character, and 2) a good guy.

Nate.

[Z-man]

Note, I don't think Snape is a good person, he's a vile, petty, vindictive asshole, but I do think he's on the right side.

Exactly. The only thing that makes him the slightest bit interesting is the contradiction inherent in him being on the good side and still being a very bad man.

[DoubleWide]

At first, I thought Snape was a villian. But Dumbledore always vouched for him no matter what. But when DD paralized Harry and had him watch Snape kill DD, my opinion changed. Throughout The Half-Blood Prince, Snape promised several people that he would do the right thing by them. I believe Snape is deep undercover and as a result has to do some pretty unspeakable things to prove his loyality, including murder. I just hope this provides Harry the push he needs to defeat Voldemort otherwise Dumbledors death will be for naught.

[Magneto_X]

He's the "anti-hero".

[mcgaffer]

I think that Voldemort suspects Snape of doublecrossing him (at least at the beginning of the book), which is why he sends Wormtail to assist Snape. Snape would never ask for assistance and definately not from Wormtail no matter whose side he's on. Wormtail also seems like he does'nt want to be there but something is making him stay. What was the clincher for me was Snape hexing Wormtail from behind the door then turning to Narcissa and saying " He's taken lately to listening at doors, i don't know what he means by it."
I think that was why Snape did'nt want to do his spying anymore because he was starting to be suspected and that Dumbledores death was planned at some stage so that Snape could stay close to Voldemort to assist Harry when the time came. I think that there was no cure for whatever killed his hand and that Dumbledore and Snape where merely preventing his death for as long as they could so he could train Harry and they could make some final plans so his death would be more beneficial to the Order then to Voldemort.

[Peter]

I'm in the camp that thinks Snape is still working on the good guys side. I think he killed Dumbledore for some very good reason that we haven't been made aware of, and I think Dumbledore knew and wanted him to do it.

Agreed. We won't be able to close the file on Snape until book 7, but for the moment I definitely agree that Snape killing Dumbledore was part of the plan all along (my bet is to save Draco, or something like that), a plan we just don't know about yet.

Although I disagree that Snape is actually brave and noble. The guy takes out his failings on ten-year-old kids. Being a hero doesn't also mean you aren't a complete jerk.

[Rachel Grey]

He's a villain that needs to die.

Sadly the sheer weight of all the horny AR fangirls wont let that happen...


okay, so I'm kinda bitter...

[Slam_Bradley]

[J. Jonah Jameson] Severus Snape: Threat of Menace! A Bugle exclusive! [/J. Jonah Jameson]

[kloudsurfer]

I definetly dont believe it. Theres gotta be something more to it. I just dont believe that Dumbledore could possibly be wrong after all these years.

I think the whole killing Dumbledore thing was one of those things that had to be done for some reason or other that will be revealed in the last book.

Its nice to know someone shares my 'Snape isn't evil' theoy. I keep telling my friends that but they dont believe me. Of course, my friends arent obsessive comic book readers who are used to picking apart plots of stories...

[Alex]

I'm still udner the impression that Snape informed dumbledore of what was going on, and Dumbledore would find it hard to give up the life of one of his students for his own life.
So, in short, i think snape is still good.

[kmeyers]

I definetly dont believe it. Theres gotta be something more to it. I just dont believe that Dumbledore could possibly be wrong after all these years.
I agree, and not only that, but I really doubt that Dumbledore(even weakened) would have frozen Harry instead of disarming(or even freezing) Malfoy if there wasn't a really good reason. He could have easily disarmed Draco instead of freezing Harry, but he didn't. He let himself be killed.

I think the whole killing Dumbledore thing was one of those things that had to be done for some reason or other that will be revealed in the last book.

Its nice to know someone shares my 'Snape isn't evil' theoy. I keep telling my friends that but they dont believe me. Of course, my friends arent obsessive comic book readers who are used to picking apart plots of stories...

to me, it would be too obvious and anti-climatic at this point for Snape to be an evil villain. I think he hates Voldemort as much as anyone, and badly wants to get out of having to be a servant to him.

[Voncaster]

We don't know who R.A.B. is yet do we? Perhaps R.A.B. is Snape and he will take care of the Horecruxes for Harry?

All I know is that Snape is hands down my favorite character in Harry Potter, and I will be extremely disappointed if Snape turns out to be a purely evil character.

[Predator]

Although I disagree that Snape is actually brave and noble. The guy takes out his failings on ten-year-old kids. Being a hero doesn't also mean you aren't a complete jerk.

I totally agree with you. Although Snape is clearly a petty bully, he is not evil. I think that him killing Dumbledore was a part of whatever plan there was for Snape to infiltrate the Death Eaters. Whether or not Voldemort knows that still remains to be seen.

I also think that Dumbledore wasn't so unprepared to plan for this eventuality. He's too intuitive to not leave some sort of proof behind that Snape is actually working with the Order of the Phoenix. Something in the Pensieve perhaps? Or maybe that portrait in the Hogwart's Headmasters' office has something to tell Harry.