So, looks like Byrne Patrol's about to be explained away by Johns

[Be Stiff]

In the new TT, Elasti-Girl is mentioned as having been dead by Beast Boy, and being one of the returning DC Heroes. He can't make his mind up if he's misremembering or not.

It looks like Infinite Crisis might undo Byrne's folly. Jesus, I'd love it if Danny the World showed up as "another" Earth.

[protege]

You know, this whole Multi-earth concept is starting to confuse the heck out of me; Red hood Jason Todd isn't Earth 1 Jason Todd, Byrne's Doom patrol isn't the real Doom Patrol, restoring earth 2 will fix all the continuity glitches with the JSA- I'm really getting lost here- what am i supposed to be looking for again?

[O'Blivion]

Good. Rebooting Doom Patrol was a terrible idea in the first place, especially considering that the original Doom Patrol had been shown as contemporary with the first incarnation of the Justice League in the League's "Year One" series.

[ComicRelated]

I am very glad to see a potential reboot erase the damage done to Doom Patrol. Unexplained reboots of existing characters should be considered a sin. That said, one of my long term favoriate comics is the Legion of Super-Heroes. Having followed it since the 70's, I'm a bit overly sensitive to senseless reboots.

I welcome back the multi-verse and hope to see it return to it's former, classic, cool glory. It just gives the boards that much more to talk about in regards to DC land.

[yenaled]

I didn't notice this first time I read it, wow... this is such a good thing.

[Bat-Mite]

In the new TT, Elasti-Girl is mentioned as having been dead by Beast Boy

Man, that's nothing. In the Teen Titans/Outsiders secret files from a month or two ago, a member of Hive mentions the Brotherhood of Dada still trapped inside the painting that ate Paris (which occurs in the second TPB of Morrison's Doom Patrol).

They sure didn't waste time burying the Byrne Patrol in comic book limbo.

[Sean Whitmore]

I was no fan of rebooting the Doom Patrol either, but don't go getting your hopes up, everyone. This was most likely just a throwaway gag.


SEAN

[Kevinroc]

I was no fan of rebooting the Doom Patrol either, but don't go getting your hopes up, everyone. This was most likely just a throwaway gag.


SEAN

It's all an Infinite Crisis hiccup...

[Be Stiff]

Man, that's nothing. In the Teen Titans/Outsiders secret files from a month or two ago, a member of Hive mentions the Brotherhood of Dada still trapped inside the painting that ate Paris (which occurs in the second TPB of Morrison's Doom Patrol).

They sure didn't waste time burying the Byrne Patrol in comic book limbo.

Heh, except that painting got blown up a few arcs later.

I'd love to see those guys back, though.

[Bat-Mite]

Sure it did, but part of the painting survived at it kept it's... err... anarchic powers. So there is still hope the first brotherhood of Dada is still in there.

[Shellhead]

Sure it did, but part of the painting survived at it kept it's... err... anarchic powers. So there is still hope the first brotherhood of Dada is still in there.

Remember the Quiz? She has every super-power that you haven't thought of yet. She could easily get them of the painting whenever she wanted.

[TommyV]

I was no fan of rebooting the Doom Patrol either, but don't go getting your hopes up, everyone. This was most likely just a throwaway gag.


SEAN

Not a gag, and definitely not throw-away. There wasn't any mirth in Gar's face - he was genuinely confused and muddled about it. IC is at work here. It's already been confirmed that Byrne's "reboot" will make sense (and most likely be nullified) by the time IC is over. The "nullified" thing is my speculation, but Didio or Johns did say that Byrne's DP continuity horror will be dealt with in or because of Infinite Crisis. That stuff about Rita in TT was an absolute seed-planting.

[Typo Lad]

In the new TT, Elasti-Girl is mentioned as having been dead by Beast Boy, and being one of the returning DC Heroes. He can't make his mind up if he's misremembering or not.

Which was interesting, since she's his "mom".

[Be Stiff]

Sure it did, but part of the painting survived at it kept it's... err... anarchic powers. So there is still hope the first brotherhood of Dada is still in there.

Or HIVE or someone pulled a switch with the painting, I guess? If they bring those guys back I'd be more than happy to throw continuity to the wind.

[protonik]

Good. Rebooting Doom Patrol was a terrible idea in the first place, especially considering that the original Doom Patrol had been shown as contemporary with the first incarnation of the Justice League in the League's "Year One" series.

The Doom Patrol reboot was PART of the Infinite Crisis thing. There were all kinds of clues dropped early on in the series that something wasn't quite right and then there was the issue where Robotman traveled back in time and it revealed different realities including the Generations reality. I guess I am the only one who picked up on the whole thing... sigh.

Jason

[TommyV]

The Doom Patrol reboot was PART of the Infinite Crisis thing. There were all kinds of clues dropped early on in the series that something wasn't quite right and then there was the issue where Robotman traveled back in time and it revealed different realities including the Generations reality. I guess I am the only one who picked up on the whole thing... sigh.

Jason

Before you "sigh" in condescension, maybe you should read all of the above posts. You're not the "only one."

[Arrjay]

You know, this whole Multi-earth concept is starting to confuse the heck out of me; Red hood Jason Todd isn't Earth 1 Jason Todd, Byrne's Doom patrol isn't the real Doom Patrol, restoring earth 2 will fix all the continuity glitches with the JSA- I'm really getting lost here- what am i supposed to be looking for again?

Yeah. The multiple Earths are what has always steered me away from D.C.

[Bat-Mite]

She could easily get them of the painting whenever she wanted.


True, but the thing is the Brotherhood of Dada did not want to leave the painting, except for Mr.Nobody who managed to get out without any problems by his own.

[Bat-Mite]

I guess I am the only one who picked up on the whole thing... sigh.

Well, you are probably the only one who was reading Byrne's Doom Patrol in the first place. *RIMSHOT*

[The Shadow]

Well, you are probably the only one who was reading Byrne's Doom Patrol in the first place. *RIMSHOT*
Proving that he has great taste and anyone from the 5th dimension named Bat-Mite does not. *FOUL*

[Bat-Mite]

Oh NO! Somebody in the Internet does not like the same comics I do! Quickly, I must start getting defensive and insulting or my granny will suffer a heart attack.

GO GO BYRNE DEFENSE FORCE!

[Bat-Mite]

BYRNE DEFENSE EMERGENCY!

Arnold Drake, co-creator of the Doom Patrol, does not like Byrne's Doom Patrol either!

He says so in this interview with Newsarama. (http://www.newsarama.com/general/ArnoldDrake/DrakneInterview.htm)

NRAMA: Every few years DC gives the concept another go in one form or another, withy varying degrees of success. The new Doom Patrol series, which was more of a throwback to your original concept was recently cancelled though. Do you follow any of the Doom Patrol revivals at DC?

AD: Yes, I saw one of the most recent issues and didn’t like it at all.

Oh no! Biblical level emergency! Byrne's defense force must act now! GET ME TACTICAL! Byrne defense is GO!

[protonik]

Yer point Bat-mite? Just because Drake doesn't like it means nothing...

Jason

[Bat-Mite]

No point. It's just that Mister Drake has shown the same horrible, horrible tastes I have, and the Byrne Defense Force should go and right this wrong!

As a bonus, I find particularly funny that the guy who created the Doom Patrol doesn't like the version that brings back the old Doom Patrol, and treats the characters with "respect" and "dignity"; but likes the Morrison run that destroyed the characters because Morrison hates superheroes and he is also a terrorist.

It just puts a gleeful smile on my face.

But there is no point or teaching to be derived from my post, if that is what you wanted.

[The Shadow]

Quickly, I must start getting defensive and insulting
Actually you were insulting and offensive because protonik read Doom Patrol and YOU didn't.

[Bat-Mite]

Please explain me how me telling Protonik that he was the only person reading Doom Patrol was insulting and defensive. Really, go ahead, I wanna hear this.

Unless "Well, you are probably the only one who was reading Byrne's Doom Patrol in the first place" sounds like "Yo mama is so fat people jog around her for exercise" in Swahili, I don't think you have much of a point or an argument.

[The Shadow]

Please explain me how me telling Protonik that he was the only person reading Doom Patrol was insulting and defensive. Really, go ahead, I wanna hear this.
Well... though the sales were low people were still reading it (I know.. I was) ... and the rimshot crack was a deliberate attempt being a dick (which you do so well!)

Then the Byrne defense crap was another attempt at baiting someone or at the very least the intention was a mocking one. Thus offensive.

Hey... do me a favor... please put me back on ignore! Assclown.

[g-fex]

Wait so they cancelled the new doom patrol?

[Bat-Mite]

Yup, canceled with issue 18.

Well... though the sales were low people were still reading it (I know.. I was) ... and the rimshot crack was a deliberate attempt being a dick (which you do so well!)

So telling someone he reads a book with low sales is insulting? Jeepers H. Christ, what would happen if I use a 'Yo Mama is so fat joke' on you, guys? Will you guys start crying?

Hey... do me a favor... please put me back on ignore!

No way! Reading you guys is fascinating. Apparently, making jokes about Doom Patrol's low sales is like a personal insult. Did you guys simply declared Doom Patrol as your nerd holy book and now you go around declaring nerd jihads on anyone who dares to say something negative about it?

- Boy! I bought a copy of Doom Patrol the other day, and one of the staples was missing!

- You insult the holy book! Nerd Jihad on you! BYRNE AKBAR! LALALALALALALALALA!

Dude, you can put me on ignore if you want, but I sure as hell don't want to miss the show.

[The Shadow]

No way! Reading you guys is fascinating. Apparently, making jokes about Doom Patrol's low sales is like a personal insult. Did you guys simply declared Doom Patrol as your nerd holy book and now you go around declaring nerd jihads on anyone who dares to say something negative about it?

- Boy! I bought a copy of Doom Patrol the other day, and one of the staples was missing!

- You insult the holy book! Nerd Jihad on you! BYRNE AKBAR! LALALALALALALALALA!

Dude, you can put me on ignore if you want, but I sure as hell don't want to miss the show.
See again with the insulting!

Where's that "report this to a mod" button when you need it...

[Bat-Mite]

If you want to report it, go ahead. Just remember you are the one who called me a dick and an assclown, and I am the guy who just said Doom Patrol had low sales.

[The Shadow]

me a dick and an assclown
hehehe

I say it because it's true!

[Paul Newell]

Settle down guys.

[The Shadow]

Settle down guys.
I already PM'd Cronin.
This isn't the first time Bat-Mite has gotten aggressive, insulting or condecending with me.
He's back on ignore :D

[cactusmaac]

No point. It's just that Mister Drake has shown the same horrible, horrible tastes I have, and the Byrne Defense Force should go and right this wrong!

As a bonus, I find particularly funny that the guy who created the Doom Patrol doesn't like the version that brings back the old Doom Patrol, and treats the characters with "respect" and "dignity"; but likes the Morrison run that destroyed the characters because Morrison hates superheroes and he is also a terrorist.

It just puts a gleeful smile on my face.

But there is no point or teaching to be derived from my post, if that is what you wanted.

Yeah, it is kind of weird how a "respectful" take that "honours" the characters, is disdained by one of the original creators.

Is Drake another one of those pros that Byrne has pissed off in some way?

Anyway the news of cancellation at #18 was pretty sweet vindication given how I said it was likely when the news of the guarantee up till #18 came out.

Oh and carry on, Bat Mite.

Your delightfully caustic and utterly reasonable commentary makes this one of the best CBR boards.

[cactusmaac]

I already PM'd Cronin.
This isn't the first time Bat-Mite has gotten aggressive, insulting or condecending with me.
He's back on ignore :D

Whatever happens at CBR, insulting posters directly is a definite no-no whether you think it's "true" or not.

[The Shadow]

Yeah, it is kind of weird how a "respectful" take that "honours" the characters, is disdained by one of the original creators.
Could be he's pissed because Byrne did it better....

Anyway the news of cancellation at #18 was pretty sweet vindication given how I said it was likely when the news of the guarantee up till #18 came out.
You are a visionary prophet among us mere comic mortals! How did you deduce that if I may ask? Was it the fact DC wouldn't go beyond 18 issues? The low sales? DC's silence on the matter? I wish I had read the writing on the wall like you and made a prediction like you.

Do you happen to work in the stock market or as a financial advisor? If not that is the type of work someone who can read between the lines is good at.

[protonik]

No way! Reading you guys is fascinating. Apparently, making jokes about Doom Patrol's low sales is like a personal insult. Did you guys simply declared Doom Patrol as your nerd holy book and now you go around declaring nerd jihads on anyone who dares to say something negative about it?

It isn't talking about the low sales or joking about it, its the mean spirited nature of it, something you excel at like no other. I tend to ignore you for the most part though. Yer just here to cause trouble and be silly. Doesn't bother me.

Doom Patrol getting cancelled was inevitable though. It isn't just John Byrne being on the book, its Morrison's legacy on the book. Morrison wrote Doom Patrol in such a way that any other approach would either be a huge let down or need to be damn near cosmic. If you tried to follow the same sort of stories that Morrison did you would be a copycat. That isn't saying it is good (I consider it weak for Morrison, he has done so much better) or awful, just that Morrison set a bar. Anytime Morrison leaves a book it has a hard time recovering. X-Men... JLA... Doom Patrol... Nobody seems to be able to get a groove going though Waid came close on JLA.

[protonik]

Anyway the news of cancellation at #18 was pretty sweet vindication given how I said it was likely when the news of the guarantee up till #18 came out.



Dude, how? Byrne was contracted for 12 issues. DC reupped the contract for 6 more which means that they still had confidence in the series at the time of contract renewal when the 18 issue guarantee was made by Byrne. That was with issue 3, 15 months BEFORE issue 18. DC isn't going to renew a contract only to say "its cancelled with issue 18 anyway". That is like reports that Blood of the Demon is cancelled at issue 18 when no. 3 of that series came out. It is not a vindication by any means. Like I have said, Doom Patrol getting cancelled was an inevitability.

Jason

[Typo Lad]

Could be he's pissed because Byrne did it better....


Bu-buh-buh?

Dude, did you READ the original Doom Patrol?

Sorry, nothing is that good.

No-thing.

[Apathy Boy]

Could be he's pissed because Byrne did it better....!!!

It's all well and good if you like the current DOOM PATROL. But are you seriously saying it's better than one of the most highly regarded and innovative comics of the Silver Age?

I'm flabbergasted.

[Be Stiff]

Yer point Bat-mite? Just because Drake doesn't like it means nothing...

Jason

It means one of Byrne's stated goals - to return heroes to their "right selves"/"respect" the heroes and their creators/piss off Chris Claremont with more Doombots - is woefully misguided. If I remember right, Drake is on record as LOVING Morrison Patrol.

Come to think of it, though, Bryne seems to have more respect for fictional consructs than the flesh and blood people who created them. Hmmm.

[The Shadow]

Bu-buh-buh?

Dude, did you READ the original Doom Patrol?

Sorry, nothing is that good.

No-thing.
Yeah I have most of the original issues actually (I'm not a reprint or trade guy) and I found it... OK. It was interesting and original... but books like the Fantastic Four with Lee and Kirby put it to shame.

[4DGlasses]

Byrne's Doom Patrol was a trainwreck. The art was pretty, I'll give him that. But beyond that, it was utter bollocks.

Maybe I don't understand the context in which the original series was written {insert cliche/tired argument here}, but Morrison's DP is the only one I recognize. (Although Arcudi's DP gets a LOT of praise)

Kupperberg's tripe preceeding Morrison was wordballoonapalooza. Complete crap!

[Brian Cronin]

Whatever happens at CBR, insulting posters directly is a definite no-no whether you think it's "true" or not.

I love you.

-Brian

[Bat-Mite]

Yeah I have most of the original issues actually and I found it... OK.

Can somebody please archive this quote here and keep it safe until the next time Shadow tells a guy he can't have an opinion about a series unless he has read ALL the issues?

[Bat-Mite]

Your delightfully caustic and utterly reasonable commentary makes this one of the best CBR boards.

Thanks!

It isn't talking about the low sales or joking about it, its the mean spirited nature of it,

Mean spirited, sure. But mean spirited against a book. You people act like Doom Patrol gave birth to you guys.

something you excel at like no other.

Everybody gotta have talents.

[The Shadow]

Can somebody please archive this quote here and keep it safe until the next time Shadow tells a guy he can't have an opinion about a series unless he has read ALL the issues?
Shadow has NEVER said that.

Ever.

Otherwise I couldn't comment on Batman, Action Comics, Detective Comics etc.

What Shadow has repeatedly said is blasting a book you HAVEN'T read (like Bat-Mite with Byrne's Doom Patrol) is a NO NO. It shows how sad and pathetic people are.

My original Doom Patrol run is pretty decent.

I have My Greatest Adventure 81,83-85 (sadly missing the hard to find in VF condition #80... I had a G- copy in my hand but passed on it). Then on to Doom Patrol Vol 1 #'s 87-101,103-107,110-124. That's a whopping 6 issues I'm missing from the original run. I also have a near complete run of Vol 2 with issues 1-80, a near complete run of Vol 3 with issues 2-19 (can't seem to find 1 and 20-22)... along with a complete run of Byrne's Doom Patrol.

So IF you have a collection superior to THAT... I'll take whatever you say into consideration. Otherwise you're a waste of time.

[Bat-Mite]

Psssst! Your ignore function is not working.

[Typo Lad]

Byrne's Doom Patrol was a trainwreck. The art was pretty, I'll give him that. But beyond that, it was utter bollocks.

Yes. I will give it art points.

Maybe I don't understand the context in which the original series was written {insert cliche/tired argument here}, but Morrison's DP is the only one I recognize. (Although Arcudi's DP gets a LOT of praise)

I liked Acudi's. I didn't think it was "needed", but it was good fun. The characters interested me as did the situations they were in.

Kupperberg's tripe preceeding Morrison was wordballoonapalooza. Complete crap!

Honestly? Worse than Byrne's by a longshot. Probably the worst DP ever.

Although Pollak's is a close second.

[Jack Tango]

Psssst! Your ignore function is not working.

Maybe it's just one of those Bio-Automated Ignore Functions where one self-induces a case of hypnosis causing one to not see your posts, unless one wishes to do so.

[The Shadow]

Psssst! Your ignore function is not working.
Nah... I never put you on....

I thought about it... and agreed that your asinine remarks are kinda funny when put into that context.

So keep at it!

And you didn't say if your Doom Patrol collection was anywhere near mine...

[Paul Newell]

Guys. Last personal insult. Anymore and further action will be taken.

[Jack Tango]

Guys. Last personal insult. Anymore and further action will be taken.

Damn you disembodied voice of reason -- it's fun to watch, but it's wrong, and you're right!

Curses!

[Bat-Mite]

I liked Acudi's. I didn't think it was "needed", but it was good fun.

Well, for that matter, no comic is actually "needed". I enjoyed Arcudi's Doom Patrol, but I think it's major problem is that it was... kinda pointless.

The series start with the DP as a corporate owned superhero group, but then the group leaves the company so that doesn't go anywhere. Robotman turns out not to be Robotman, but then the real Robotman shows up and that doesn't go anywhere. Really, no part of the story went anywhere. It was like there was no plan at all.

[Deathlok]

I was told that John Byrne does not want to create a run away series that is successful.
He got a divorce right in the middle of his next men run ( the last time he actually put out something good!), thus he will NEVER finish it. You see, his wife gets half the $$$$, so if he makes all kinds of $$$$, his ex-wife will be lurking in the shadows.....

So Byrne just goes through the motions..... this would explain his recent work, doom patrol, WW, demon, etc....

[Sean Whitmore]

I was told that John Byrne does not want to create a run away series that is successful.
He got a divorce right in the middle of his next men run ( the last time he actually put out something good!), thus he will NEVER finish it. You see, his wife gets half the $$$$, so if he makes all kinds of $$$$, his ex-wife will be lurking in the shadows.....

So Byrne just goes through the motions..... this would explain his recent work, doom patrol, WW, demon, etc....


Damn, I'd be bitter too.


SEAN

[JeffreyWKramer]

Damn, I'd be bitter too.

Being bitter is one thing. Short-changing fans by producing crap while still wanting them to buy it is another. This assumes, of course, there is any truth to the whole divorce scenario Deathlok mentions - and I have no idea either way - but if that is true, that's still a crappy excuse for Byrne's often-weak output

[Bat-Mite]

I am no lawyer, which means I have no clue how divorce court work, and I am about to talk out of my buttocks; but from what I have seen in Ally McBeal and Perry Mason reruns, I don't think it works like in Deathlock's scenario.

I assume Byrne has to pay his wife alimony, but I believe that amount of money is settled and can only be paid in cash, checks or money orders, but not with property, which I think includes intellectual property. Unless Byrne's wife got part or all of the rights to Next Men, I don't think Byrne writing it or not writing it affects the quantity of money he has to give her. And obviously, intellectual properties created after the divorce would obviously not affect the amount of money his wife would get, since they are goods obtained after the divorce, so the ex can't claim them.

[Deathlok]

I am no lawyer, which means I have no clue how divorce court work, and I am about to talk out of my buttocks; but from what I have seen in Ally McBeal and Perry Mason reruns, I don't think it works like in Deathlock's scenario.

I assume Byrne has to pay his wife alimony, but I believe that amount of money is settled and can only be paid in cash, checks or money orders, but not with property, which I think includes intellectual property. Unless Byrne's wife got part or all of the rights to Next Men, I don't think Byrne writing it or not writing it affects the quantity of money he has to give her. And obviously, intellectual properties created after the divorce would obviously not affect the amount of money his wife would get, since they are goods obtained after the divorce, so the ex can't claim them.


Normally thats the way it goes. But there have been some very stupid rulings in Canada where the wife challenges a previous settlement.....basically she wants MORE when she finds out that her ex hubby is making more $$$$$, regardless of any past arrnagements.... if kids are involved, the wife usually wins.......

I know of personal cases where this is true.....

[Deathlok]

here is an example of what I mean:

..."nd while the idea of "no-fault" divorces should apply equally to both men and women, in a similar case a man lost everything, including his livelihood, when his wife found her "soul mate" and decided she no longer wanted to be married. In the dissolution proceedings the court awarded the matrimonial home, which included a tree farm that was the sole source of the husband’s income, to the wife. In addition he was ordered to pay his ex $4,300 per month in support and one-time lump sum that amounted to over $80,000 for his wife’s pension and support for his stepson. Get it? The wife was tired of the husband, so the court punishes the husband....."

[the heckler]

well i personally cant stand his stories anymore.. but i do like the superman hes working on.. mainly because of Gail simone's writting.. so id say him doin unsellworthy crap on purpose is untrue.. why would he work on a supes book if thats the case?.. i say hes just egotystical and out of his mind.. thinks eveything he does is gold and dosent have to abide by anything else anyones doing to stay in continuity..hes done it many times.. he obviously dosent care..just thinks hes above everyone else in the industry, because hes john byrne...not sure he realizes his faithful 50,000 dosent exist anymore.

my opinion anyway

[Be Stiff]

if kids are involved, the wife usually wins.......


Leave Byrne Robotics out of this!

[Simon Garth]

I am no lawyer, which means I have no clue how divorce court work, and I am about to talk out of my buttocks; but from what I have seen in Ally McBeal and Perry Mason reruns, I don't think it works like in Deathlock's scenario.

I assume Byrne has to pay his wife alimony, but I believe that amount of money is settled and can only be paid in cash, checks or money orders, but not with property, which I think includes intellectual property. Unless Byrne's wife got part or all of the rights to Next Men, I don't think Byrne writing it or not writing it affects the quantity of money he has to give her. And obviously, intellectual properties created after the divorce would obviously not affect the amount of money his wife would get, since they are goods obtained after the divorce, so the ex can't claim them.

Dunno how is works in the 'States, but in the UK you can get stuck with proportion of income. There's a a guy I work with here in the UK, who has to pay x% of his income (above a certain (small) amount): every pay day, every payrise, every bonus, every overtime.... Consequently, he takes all his overtime as "time in lieu" instead of payment.

[protonik]

I was told that John Byrne does not want to create a run away series that is successful.
He got a divorce right in the middle of his next men run ( the last time he actually put out something good!), thus he will NEVER finish it. You see, his wife gets half the $$$$, so if he makes all kinds of $$$$, his ex-wife will be lurking in the shadows.....

So Byrne just goes through the motions..... this would explain his recent work, doom patrol, WW, demon, etc....

yeah, too bad it doesn't work like that. He may pay alimony but she has no right to anything he owns or creates etc. after the divorce. Aside from that.. Demon is AWESOME and so is Action. Also, if that were the reason why would Byrne take the HIGH PROFILE Spidey relaunch of the late 90s? There are MANY loopholes in this arguement.

Jason

[protonik]

Normally thats the way it goes. But there have been some very stupid rulings in Canada where the wife challenges a previous settlement.....basically she wants MORE when she finds out that her ex hubby is making more $$$$$, regardless of any past arrnagements.... if kids are involved, the wife usually wins.......

I know of personal cases where this is true.....

Except Byrne has been living in Connecticut since the early 80s...

Jason

[ScottDMSimmons]

Fellow Doom Patrol fans may rejoice at the announcement of the following from the Feb 2006 solicits (I know I did!)... I guess my Christmas present arrives abit late for me this year.

--Scott


DOOM PATROL ARCHIVES VOL. 3 HC
Written by Arnold Drake
Art by Bruno Premiani and Bob Brown
Cover by Brian Bolland
An amazing hardcover collecting DOOM PATROL #98-105 and CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN #48 (1966)! Witness a new “unofficial” member, a wedding, and the Challengers of the Unknown! Featuring an introduction by comics historian Bill Schelly and a new cover by Brian Bolland!
On sale Feb 15 • 240 pg, FC, $49.99 US

[Babylon23]

Great to see vol. 3 finally coming out. I love DP, and these original issues are incredible.

As for Byrne's DP, I just couldn't get into it. It wasn't a bad book at all, it just wasn't what I wanted from a DP book.

The retcon annoyed me greatly, so I'm happy to see Johns is explain/reverse it.

[4DGlasses]

Honestly? Worse than Byrne's by a longshot. Probably the worst DP ever.
Although Pollak's is a close second.

Pollack had a decent run, IMO. A bit too bitchcraft/menstrual at times, but the Qabalah bits at the end give it a SLIGHT edge over Byrne's...

But not much of one.

I think Byrne could have at least TRIED to incorporate some of the previous history and not s#!+can the whole lot of it.

Why couldn't Elasti-Girl come back as one of Crazy Jane's personalities?

TRY SOMETHING!

Not having read Arcudi's run, I did hear that he used Coagula in a story. That counts for something in my book.

[Shellhead]

Being bitter is one thing. Short-changing fans by producing crap while still wanting them to buy it is another. This assumes, of course, there is any truth to the whole divorce scenario Deathlok mentions - and I have no idea either way - but if that is true, that's still a crappy excuse for Byrne's often-weak output

A more likely scenario is that Byrne has lost his creative edge. Have you heard any great new songs by Paul McCartney in the last 20 years?

[DDM]

John Byrne needs to take a vacation away from comic books. Right now, he is bored with comic book characters; it shows in most of his stories from the 90's to current. I doubt it has anything to do with his ex-wife.

[Phoney Bone]

Yo mama is so fat people jog around her for exercise


HEY! My mom's not fat, she's big-boned!

[Phoney Bone]

I didn't hate the concept of Byrne's reboot of Doom Patrol. I like old-fasioned super-heroy goodness as well as Morrison's wild concepts. I think the two could of co-existed.

My problem with Byrne's Doom Patrol was the writing, and plots, and art...


Yet, I thouroughly enjoy his stuff in Blood of the Demon and Action Comics right now.

[Altered Ego]

You are correct. I just recently got the last issue of Doom Patrol which showed their death and the writing was great!

[protonik]

Pollack had a decent run, IMO. A bit too bitchcraft/menstrual at times, but the Quabballah bits at the end give it a SLIGHT edge over Byrne's...

But not much of one.

I think Byrne could have at least TRIED to incorporate some of the previous history and not s#!+can the whole lot of it.

Why couldn't Elasti-Girl come back as one of Crazy Jane's personalities?

TRY SOMETHING!

Not having read Arcudi's run, I did hear that he used Coagula in a story. That counts for something in my book.

DC canned the history, not Byrne. The reboot is what DiDio asked Byrne to do. As far as Pollack and Qabalah, just because you put qabala and similar material in your work doesn't make it better. It makes it unreadable to the masses without proper explanation. Moore did it well. Morrison does it well. Pollack stumbled and was heavy handed from what I recall...

[4DGlasses]

DC canned the history, not Byrne. The reboot is what DiDio asked Byrne to do. As far as Pollack and Qabalah, just because you put qabala and similar material in your work doesn't make it better. It makes it unreadable to the masses without proper explanation. Moore did it well. Morrison does it well. Pollack stumbled and was heavy handed from what I recall...

Pollack's run was better than Byrne's...

in my opinion. I know a bit about Qabalah from my own readings, so it didn't need any explaination for me. Besides, a Vertigo book gets a different audience than a mainstream DC book.

And since Byrne wrote the book that disregarded prior incarnations, he's gonna catch the brunt of the hate.

Plus, I think his writing is dull and boring.

Once again, my opinion. Not THE end all, be all opinion. Mine. OK?

[Typo Lad]

Why oh why do people spell Kaballah quaballah?

It's like when people say Vampyre or Majik.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Why oh why do people spell Kaballah quaballah?

It's like when people say Vampyre or Majik.
I think it's one of many ways to spell it.

Kabbalah (Hebrew קַבָּלָה "reception", Standard Hebrew Qabbala, Tiberian Hebrew Qabbālāh; also written variously as Cabala, Cabalah, Cabbala, Cabbalah, Kabala, Kabalah, Kabbala, Qabala, Qabalah, Kaballah)
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaballah)

[4DGlasses]

Why oh why do people spell Kaballah quaballah?

It's like when people say Vampyre or Majik.

You mean you don't spell magic with a "j" or a "k"???

:D

[protonik]

Why oh why do people spell Kaballah quaballah?

It's like when people say Vampyre or Majik.

No it isn't. There is no correct spelling for Qabalah, Kabbalah, Kabala, Qhabalah, Qabbalah, Qaballa etc. In Hewbrew the word is QBLH with the Q capable of being a C, K or Q. Generally certain spellings have been adopted by certain traditions, like Kabbalah is the one most used by Jewish authors while Qaballah is usually spelled in such a manner by Hermetic magicians like myself. Quaballah's precedence comes from the German transliteration, popularized by Franz Bardon in his works on the topic.

I know QUITE a bit about Qabala but 4-d, just because you do doesn't make the work attractive to new readers and while Vertigo attracts a different crowd, that crowd isn't anymore sophisticated than the superhero crowd and consists mainly of Goth wannabes who talk about the existential qualities of Sandman without really knowing what they are or mean and think Promethea is a superhero comic...

Jason

[4DGlasses]

I know QUITE a bit about Qabala but 4-d, just because you do doesn't make the work attractive to new readers and while Vertigo attracts a different crowd, that crowd isn't anymore sophisticated than the superhero crowd and consists mainly of Goth wannabes who talk about the existential qualities of Sandman without really knowing what they are or mean and think Promethea is a superhero comic...

Jason

I wasn't trying to imply that Vertigo readers are better or "more sophisticated." I'm saying most Vertigo fans I've spoken to have read lots of material above and beyond the standard occult fare. That Goth crowd you described twists my undies in a knot, too.

Again, one fanboy's opinion. :)

[Ontir]

I've tried to read the Byrne-d Doom Patrol a few times, but wasn't able to make it all the way through. For one thing, it looked bloody awful! For another, the new characters were completely un-appealing, and the old characters seemed to be out of character. However, it was stated, in an interview I believe, by Didio early on, that what was going on, would eventually make sense. Several of the solicitations have suggested that the team was tripping between parallel Earths, so perhaps this version was meant to be an intro to Infinite Crisis that would tie into the mini, but not survive it. Whatever happens, I hope they start calling Gar "Changeling" again. "Beast Boy" belongs in the 31st century!