Restaurants can't tell kids to quiet down

[Fabian]

Or else they'll get boycotted (http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_314003745.html)

What's so wrong about asking parents to better discipline their kids? They can be spoiled brats at your house but don't expect everyone else to think they're adorable when they're kicking and screaming

[Spackling Compound]

Or else they'll get boycotted (http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_314003745.html)

What's so wrong about asking parents to better discipline their kids? They can be spoiled brats at your house but don't expect everyone else to think they're adorable when they're kicking and screaming

I'm sure there are parents here who will tell you that no waitress or waiter or anyone should even deign to tell them to discipline their kid. Them's fighting words!
As someone told me, either eat somewhere else or eat at home. Spoiled kids, like PDA, cell phone conversations and loud secretarial birthday parties are part of the dining experience.

These days...only smokers and drunks get the boot.

[BlairH]

Children should be seen and not heard.

[Dreadstar]

Or else they'll get boycotted (http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_314003745.html)

What's so wrong about asking parents to better discipline their kids? They can be spoiled brats at your house but don't expect everyone else to think they're adorable when they're kicking and screaming


Heheheh. As a restaurant patron, and one-time father of a 2 year-old, I would never let my kid get so out of control as to disturb the other patrons. Those who do are, in my opinion, beneath contempt. Strike that. Not contempt. Pitiable, I think.

Also as a patron who's been seated in a restaurant a booth away from 3 screaming kids, I'm not above calling the waitress/hostess over and request seating in the "no screaming kids" section of the restaurant. This should ALWAYS be done loudly enough for the group to overhear.

Now before I get shouted down by the folk who say "Hey, it's not easy to keep a kid occupied and out of other patron's hair at a restaurant!", I tell you I agree with you. Been there, know how tough a kid on a bad day can be.

Thing is: If you can't do it, don't take 'em.

That's what Chuckie Cheese is all about.

[Dizzy D]

Can the boycotting parents please put a list online of the places they boycott. I also want to know where I can get a cup of tea with some peace and quiet attached.

[Fabian]

What's funny is that I heard about this story on FOX news of all places and they had the coffee shop owner and the mother on. The owner was looked like your average friendly hippie and the mom sounded like a raving madwoman. However, the anchor kept trying to make the owner look bad by painting him to be a child hater


Oh and do ask the restaurant to keep some kids quiet. Some places (like mine) can't say anything to anyone unless it disturbs another guest

[Adam Crocker]

Good lord. They're boycotting a restaurant...not for actually trying to do their job for them...but for posting a friendly reminder? Look kids crying at restaurants from time to time doesn't bother me that much, but if parents can't discipline their kids to at least behave themselves minimally at restaurants who are they to get indignant when the owners just post an advisory sign?

[Ed Cunard]

I know it's not the mature reaction, but when something like this happens, and the restaurant can't or won't do something about it, I just get really rude with the parents.

I'm petty.

[west3man]

What's funny is that I heard about this story on FOX news of all places and they had the coffee shop owner and the mother on. The owner was looked like your average friendly hippie and the mom sounded like a raving madwoman. However, the anchor kept trying to make the owner look bad by painting him to be a child hater


Oh and do ask the restaurant to keep some kids quiet. Some places (like mine) can't say anything to anyone unless it disturbs another guest
Sho' nuff.

I believe in sharing my opinion of my dining (or whatever) experience with a representative of the organization. It gives them valuable feedback and gives them someone to point the finger at when making an internal or external suggestion.


I tell cashiers or whomever, "I'd love it if you guys started serving baked potatoes." Sure, they may have no control over these things, but they can pass on the request on their own (unlikely) or if/when prompted by management. "I was thinking about adding baked potatoes to the menu. Have you guys heard anything from the customers about menu items they'd like?" If we never say anything, the staff will say, "No one's said anything to me" and an opportunity will have been missed.

[Fabian]

Good lord. They're boycotting a restaurant...not for actually trying to do their job for them...but for posting a friendly reminder? Look kids crying at restaurants from time to time doesn't bother me that much, but if parents can't discipline their kids to at least behave themselves minimally at restaurants who are they to get indignant when the owners just post an advisory sign?
Plus the owner did say that some people would even walk out as a result of the kids' behavior. Imagine how bad it would be, it could had looked like a nursing school

[west3man]

Heheheh. As a restaurant patron, and one-time father of a 2 year-old, I would never let my kid get so out of control as to disturb the other patrons. Those who do are, in my opinion, beneath contempt. Strike that. Not contempt. Pitiable, I think.

Also as a patron who's been seated in a restaurant a booth away from 3 screaming kids, I'm not above calling the waitress/hostess over and request seating in the "no screaming kids" section of the restaurant. This should ALWAYS be done loudly enough for the group to overhear.

Now before I get shouted down by the folk who say "Hey, it's not easy to keep a kid occupied and out of other patron's hair at a restaurant!", I tell you I agree with you. Been there, know how tough a kid on a bad day can be.

Thing is: If you can't do it, don't take 'em.

That's what Chuckie Cheese is all about.Here's another one to frame.

This makes so much sense to me - especially the last two lines.

[Fabian]

I know it's not the mature reaction, but when something like this happens, and the restaurant can't or won't do something about it, I just get really rude with the parents.

I'm petty.
It's only petty if you start a food fight

[Dreadstar]

Here's another one to frame.

This makes so much sense to me - especially the last two lines.

Thanks, man!

[Dreadstar]

It's only petty if you start a food fight

Oooo, that would be a good one! I may try that one next time I get the screaming kids at the Friday's.

Woo! Evil!

[Fabian]

Oooo, that would be a good one! I may try that one next time I get the screaming kids at the Friday's.

Woo! Evil!
Order red wine, throw it at the kids and then call social services and tell them their parents were drunk and spilled wine all over the kid and even started a food fight

[west3man]

I have a "bad" habit of doing whatever some bad-ass child is doing - the same way they do it. If it's annoying, it's annoying.

Sure, it's more understandable when coming from a kid, but it's still disruptive.



That said, occasional, unexpected, and ESPECIALLY short-lived disruptions from babies and lil kids - these don't bother me as much. In fact, I smile, sometimes, in movie theater when some baby yells out "GAGGLE! BUH-BUH!" out of the blue.

You just *know* the parent feels bad and the kid doesn't know any better - as long as the parent makes a reasonable effort to curb or shield us from the behavior, it doesn't usually piss me off. They're people trying to do a tough job and still have a life.

[Dreadstar]

Order red wine, throw it at the kids and then call social services and tell them their parents were drunk and spilled wine all over the kid and even started a food fight


. . . !

We could rule the world, you and I.

[Fabian]

That said, occasional, unexpected, and ESPECIALLY short-lived disruptions from babies and lil kids - these don't bother me as much. In fact, I smile, sometimes, in movie theater when some baby yells out "GAGGLE! BUH-BUH!" out of the blue.

You just *know* the parent feels bad and the kid doesn't know any better - as long as the parent makes a reasonable effort to curb or shield us from the behavior, it doesn't usually piss me off. They're people trying to do a tough job and still have a life.
I think it's pretty much a given that most people don't get annoyed or make a fuss unless the problem is persitant and goes on long enough. I'm however, much less forgiving and wonder why the heck they needed to bring a baby in a theater and not rent something instead?

. . . !

We could rule the world, you and I.
You'd be the Queen of course but as consolation, you get first choice of continents

[Sir Tim Drake]

Good lord. They're boycotting a restaurant...not for actually trying to do their job for them...but for posting a friendly reminder? Look kids crying at restaurants from time to time doesn't bother me that much, but if parents can't discipline their kids to at least behave themselves minimally at restaurants who are they to get indignant when the owners just post an advisory sign?

I think the evidence we have suggests that the owner is right and the mother is just being unreasonable. It's too bad they didn't post what the sign said, though. If it said something like "Get those miserable screaming brats out of my restaurant before I strangle them," then I can see why the mother might have been annoyed. :)

[Dreadstar]

You'd be the Queen of course but as consolation, you get first choice of continents

I'll take the title, but I'm not much as a "bottom."

Oh, and like Lex Luthor, I'm pretty fond of beachfront, and I'd go for Australia, too!

Besides, the Aussies have got to be easy to con. I mean, they eat vegemite, fergawdsakes.

[west3man]

I think it's pretty much a given that most people don't get annoyed or make a fuss unless the problem is persitant and goes on long enough. I'm however, much less forgiving and wonder why the heck they needed to bring a baby in a theater and not rent something instead?
I figure that if they could've left the baby with someone they trusted, they would've. That's not always the case, but that's what I figure's more likely - and when it comes to strangers, we'll never know one way or the other.

I wanna applaud when the baby gets too fussy and one of the parents takes the baby outside for a while. Unfortunately, that'd seem like I'm applauding the baby-booting when I'm really applauding the fact that there are still responsible AND considerate parents out there.

Instead I keep my mouth (and hands) shut.

[Michael P]

What's funny is that I heard about this story on FOX news of all places and they had the coffee shop owner and the mother on. The owner was looked like your average friendly hippie and the mom sounded like a raving madwoman. However, the anchor kept trying to make the owner look bad by painting him to be a child hater.

It's the jounalism industry's worst kept secret that Fox has its anchors shipped in directly from Bizarro World.

[Noah Johnson]

When I was a waiter, especially when I was at the Olive Garden, and especially with that godawful Sunday after-church family crowd, we'd get the occasional disruptive kid. Running up and down the aisles, throwing food, yelling, whatever.

And let me tell you, from a waiter's perspective, the best thing to do is ignore it. You can't tell the parents to control their rug rat, because even if they agree with you their instinct is to protect their offspring against outsiders. So that's a waste of time. Then, too, the other diners are usually annoyed by this unholy demonspawn, and it's pretty easy to give nonverbal cues that say "I know, I hate the little noise factory myself, but I'm not allowed to do anything." At that point, you've entered into a conspiracy with the other patrons, which means bigger tips.

[Arrjay]

There are many things in this world that aggravate me beyond rational limits.
One of those things being children who yell and scream and squeal all the time in a public place. What must be remembered though is that most children don't have a clue that they're aggravating anyone. Therefore, they're parents have to bear the consequences of the antics of their children.

I'm totally okay with this.

Because the one thing more aggravating than kids that scream and squeal a lot are parents who do nothing to stop them. It's irresponsible and ignorant.

[west3man]

When I was a waiter, especially when I was at the Olive Garden, and especially with that godawful Sunday after-church family crowd, we'd get the occasional disruptive kid. Running up and down the aisles, throwing food, yelling, whatever.

And let me tell you, from a waiter's perspective, the best thing to do is ignore it. You can't tell the parents to control their rug rat, because even if they agree with you their instinct is to protect their offspring against outsiders. So that's a waste of time. Then, too, the other diners are usually annoyed by this unholy demonspawn, and it's pretty easy to give nonverbal cues that say "I know, I hate the little noise factory myself, but I'm not allowed to do anything." At that point, you've entered into a conspiracy with the other patrons, which means bigger tips.
What about when a server trips over one of those cute lil bundles o' joy?

Loud noise? Disruptive. "Disruptive" doesn't have much pull.

Running around? Disruptive and potentially unsafe. "Safety's" a pimp. Much pull.


The way I see it, if someone's kid is running around like it's a playground instead of a Pizza Hut, causing a server to drop a tray of food, that should get added to that family's bill. *shrugs*

Unfortunately, they'd probably sue, claiming the kid's growth was stunted for the fall or from the cursing the server gave him.

[Dreadstar]

When I was a waiter, especially when I was at the Olive Garden, and especially with that godawful Sunday after-church family crowd, we'd get the occasional disruptive kid. Running up and down the aisles, throwing food, yelling, whatever.

And let me tell you, from a waiter's perspective, the best thing to do is ignore it. You can't tell the parents to control their rug rat, because even if they agree with you their instinct is to protect their offspring against outsiders. So that's a waste of time. Then, too, the other diners are usually annoyed by this unholy demonspawn, and it's pretty easy to give nonverbal cues that say "I know, I hate the little noise factory myself, but I'm not allowed to do anything." At that point, you've entered into a conspiracy with the other patrons, which means bigger tips.

Just intentionally trip over the hellion and spill everything on their table noisily.

[Dreadstar]

What about when a server trips over one of those cute lil bundles o' joy?

Loud noise? Disruptive. "Disruptive" doesn't have much pull.

Running around? Disruptive and potentially unsafe. "Safety's" a pimp. Much pull.


The way I see it, if someone's kid is running around like it's a playground instead of a Pizza Hut, causing a server to drop a tray of food, that should get added to that family's bill. *shrugs*

Unfortunately, they'd probably sue, claiming the kid's growth was stunted for the fall or from the cursing the server gave him.


Beat me to it.

[Arrjay]

The way I see it, if someone's kid is running around like it's a playground instead of a Pizza Hut, causing a server to drop a tray of food, that should get added to that family's bill. *shrugs*

Agreed. Unless, of course, the child is seriously hurt and this can be proven.

[west3man]

Agreed. Unless, of course, the child is seriously hurt and this can be proven.
That's why I added in the bit about the suit. I still think it's the family's fault, though.

If I'm driving down the street and you're walking down the sidewalk, allowing your kid to run around without holding your hand (or one of those un-p.c., but effective "leashes"), it's your own fault if I hit your kid - providing the kid jumped in front of me*, as opposed to me jumping up on the sidewalk.


* - ...and I'm going the speed limit, blah blah blah...

[Michael P]

or one of those un-p.c., but effective "leashes"[/SIZE]
I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.

[west3man]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.
Gives'em more leeway than a hand/arm, but keep's close enough.

I figure there's cool as long as the kid's not old enough to have grown some dignity.

[Tadhg Adams]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.

I'm more for the elecrtic shock collar.

[traxler]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.
Un-PC, but so useful when kids are at the age where they're out of prams
but still don't quite realise that cars are made of metal.

I have friends that I will not even eat in their house,
their kids are so badly brought up, let alone a restaurant.
Not that my stance has made them do anything about it.

[MacQuarrie]

Now before I get shouted down by the folk who say "Hey, it's not easy to keep a kid occupied and out of other patron's hair at a restaurant!", I tell you I agree with you. Been there, know how tough a kid on a bad day can be.
I did it with three kids. It's not that hard. Here's the formula:

1. Do not let your children behave in public in a way that you would not allow them to behave in your living room.

2. Do not allow your children to behave like wild animals in the living room.

Consistency of expectations is all you need.

If you can't do that, then by all means, boycott all restaurants. Please. Movie theatres too while you're at it. And stores. Keep your little savages at home.

Or maybe you could do your duty as parents. What's your duty? It's this: All normal parents love their children; a parent's duty is to raise their children so that other people can love them too.

[MacQuarrie]

I figure that if they could've left the baby with someone they trusted, they would've. That's not always the case, but that's what I figure's more likely - and when it comes to strangers, we'll never know one way or the other.
Wanna bet? You have no idea how many people out there think their little tax deduction poops soft-serve vanilla. They also think their job is to cater to the little tyrant's every whim and submit to the blackmail of the tantrum.

I wanna applaud when the baby gets too fussy and one of the parents takes the baby outside for a while. Unfortunately, that'd seem like I'm applauding the baby-booting when I'm really applauding the fact that there are still responsible AND considerate parents out there.

Instead I keep my mouth (and hands) shut.
Don't applaud, just smile at the parent as if to say "good job". They'll get it.

[Puma]

I did it with three kids. It's not that hard. Here's the formula:

1. Do not let your children behave in public in a way that you would not allow them to behave in your living room.

2. Do not allow your children to behave like wild animals in the living room.

Consistency of expectations is all you need.

If you can't do that, then by all means, boycott all restaurants. Please. Movie theatres too while you're at it. And stores. Keep your little savages at home.

Or maybe you could do your duty as parents. What's your duty? It's this: All normal parents love their children; a parent's duty is to raise their children so that other people can love them too.
I wish I could post this at work!

[west3man]

Wanna bet? You have no idea how many people out there think their little tax deduction poops soft-serve vanilla. They also think their job is to cater to the little tyrant's every whim and submit to the blackmail of the tantrum. You think that's most of'em? Yuck. I hope not, but you may be right.

Don't applaud, just smile at the parent as if to say "good job". They'll get it.
Can't do that across a dark, crowded theater.

So, they remain silently/secretely appreciated.

[heretic]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.I can see your reasoning to a degree, but I freely admit that it is a convinient aide for a parent (although not a substitute for actually paying attention).

Perhaps I am influenced by the amount of trauma my vaguely recalled wandering caused my parents. My dad threatened more than once to get a leash for me _before_ the asthetically pleasing harnessess gained popularity.

HTG

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

When I was a kid, my parents were complimented all the time at how well behaved my brother and I were. Little did our fellow patrons realize that we were under threat that we were to behave "or else." We were in such mortal fear of what "or else" was, it's hard to believe that, even today, I don't know what "or else" was.

I'm the same with my kids now. Poor behavior is met with the evil eye at first, then to the shaken finger and a warning and, lastly, the nuclear option (a/k/a one parent collects "to go" boxes all around as the other takes the offending child to the car). I always hated rowdy kids when I was a waiter and when I was a normal (i.e. nonparent) person, so I refuse to inflict screaming, rotten children on my fellow patrons.

It works pretty well. The only time I can think of where we pissed off pretty much everyone around us was when my now-2 year old son was teething and we were trapped in an airplane. He screamed pretty much nonstop the entire flight and, despite all our valiant efforts to quiet him down, we were unsuccessful. When the stewardess came by and asked me if I wanted anything, I simply said, "Cyanide." That brought a chuckle from the people around us at least.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

You think that's most of'em? Yuck. I hope not, but you may be right.

Oh, trust me, it's most of 'em. It continues far beyond the toddler years as well. I prosecute some juvenile cases now and you would be amazed at what apologists parents these days are for their kids. Last week, a mom and I almost got into a shouting match over her little angel, who happened to be caught drinking and smoking pot in a house at 5 a.m. one weekend, at the ripe old age of 15. Was her concern for what her little sweetie-pie had been doing at that house all night with a bunch of older teenage boys, also in various degrees of intoxication? Of course not. Her problem was that the police didn't have a warrant (they didn't need one, since the homeowner let them in, but that's beside the point). When I pointed out that her daughter admitted drinking and smoking weed to the cops, mom told me that her precious darling suffers from "cognitive difficulties" and probably didn't understand what the cop was asking. When I indicated that her daughter seemed to follow what I had been saying well enough, that was met with stony silence.

The worst part of it is that I feel sorry for the little reprobates because I then see why they are such dipshits -- they get it directly from Mom and Dad.

[Crinos]

When I was a little kid, If I acted up and made a scene in a restaraunt I could expect an ass whoopin when I got home. My parents didnt put up with that kind of crap. :p

I know that when a babie starts crying there's pretty much nothing that can be done, but kids 6 and up should know to sit in their seats and behave themselves in public.

Anyways, its not the restaurants responsibility to rein in kids, its the parents. And if they want to boycott a restaurant for telling them to control there kids than fine.

Go eat at Chucky Cheese and Mcdonalds. :p

[Ed Cunard]

When I pointed out that her daughter admitted drinking and smoking weed to the cops, mom told me that her precious darling suffers from "cognitive difficulties" and probably didn't understand what the cop was asking.

I'm totally copping the "I'm too stupid to lie" excuse at some point for something.

[Guapo Méndez]

When I was a kid, my parents were complimented all the time at how well behaved my brother and I were. Little did our fellow patrons realize that we were under threat that we were to behave "or else." We were in such mortal fear of what "or else" was, it's hard to believe that, even today, I don't know what "or else" was.



Ah, the Stern Look.

My dad was pretty efficient with it. If you were misbehaving and you heard your first name, you snapped to attention and got the Stern Look, you knew you were in so much trouble when you got home.

I practice that with my kids too. The 1 year old's behavior is harder to control, but we're getting there. Marco? He gets one "sit down and shut up". After that, he is in trouble.
We rarely get to say it twice.

[Charles RB]

I can't remember off-hand ever seeing kids misbehaving this badly in a restaurant (as opposed to McDonalds), so I'd like to know which ones you're all going to so I can avoid the hellholes and remain blissfully ignorant. Kids should only be running around in a restaurant if they're desperately heading for the loo.

[Crinos]

Ah, the Stern Look.

My dad was pretty efficient with it. If you were misbehaving and you heard your first name, you snapped to attention and got the Stern Look, you knew you were in so much trouble when you got home.

I practice that with my kids too. The 1 year old's behavior is harder to control, but we're getting there. Marco? He gets one "sit down and shut up". After that, he is in trouble.
We rarely get to say it twice.

God bless you man. God bless you. :)

[K'Nort]

A backlash definitely seems be growing against over-permissive parents.

A 'boycott' like that will probably be a windfall for the restaurant. They'll make far more money from people looking to avoid children than they'll lose from the stroller set.

I was at a boutique hotel weekend before last where the breakfast room offers 'quiet breakfast' for the first hour -- ie, leave the kids in the room. There was also a blurb in the local paper about a ski hotel that announced they were no longer taking guests with children and reservations instantly skyrocketed.

The harnesses can work very well. Especially from the kid's perspective.

[Callie]

I have no idea why they're up in arms over a coffee shop. Coffee shops are for people who want to sit down, have a frothy caffeinated drink, and chat quietly/read/work on the laptop. Loudness is never tolerated, so they should know better about dragging in a noisy five year old.

The only exception is if it's the sort of coffee shop that has live music. But even then, keep your kid in check.

[K'Nort]

In fairness, coffee shops are also really popular places to meet friends and catch up. Especially for those groups of people who don't hang out in bars. It's really common for groups of stay-at-home moms to have a regular coffeeshop meet-up around here. The weather's always too bad to gather in a park or something. But other groups gather too. They definitely don't all have a quiet-study vibe.

[Spackling Compound]

I have no idea why they're up in arms over a coffee shop. Coffee shops are for people who want to sit down, have a frothy caffeinated drink, and chat quietly/read/work on the laptop. Loudness is never tolerated, so they should know better about dragging in a noisy five year old.

The only exception is if it's the sort of coffee shop that has live music. But even then, keep your kid in check.
Coffee shops are also for forty-ish, fifty-ish earth mothers who bring their brood in and while they sit with a cup of tea and talk to the recovering alcoholics, they let Jacob, Eliah and Misha run about the place because it's homespun and children need to explore and question and touch and feel. Let them listen to you talk so they may learn. Let them touch your laptop so they may feel. Let them show you their wee-wee so they may not be body conscious. Let them scream so they may be heard.
If you need to write something or talk, then take your capitalist suit to the Big Boy down the street and have your corporate meeting, Poindexter.

[Callie]

Never been in a loud coffeeshop. Unless you count Starbucks or Seattle's Best...but I generally avoid those.

Must be the fact that I'm in a college town with a giant populace of 20somethings. Even the coffeeshops around 6th Street (mile o' bars/clubs) are quiet inside...

[MacQuarrie]

All I ever had to say was "do we have to have a chat?" They knew that "have a chat" meant go to the car and be dealt with harshly.

If the kid is old enough to talk, the kid is old enough to listen.

[Hoss]

My new favorite made up word is "Jackassery." Now, I can see parents with children avoiding places like these when they have their kids with them. But a boycott means no matter what you won't go to these places. And that's jackassery.

And I say this as someone who's 18 month old daughter was threatened yesterday with a temporary ban from the YMCA for biting.

[Michael P]

I've coined "asshaberdashery" myself.

[Ed Cunard]

I've coined "asshaberdashery" myself.

Is that a place where all the clothing smells like dookie?

[Puma]

Coffee shops are also for forty-ish, fifty-ish earth mothers who bring their brood in and while they sit with a cup of tea and talk to the recovering alcoholics, they let Jacob, Eliah and Misha run about the place because it's homespun and children need to explore and question and touch and feel. Let them listen to you talk so they may learn. Let them touch your laptop so they may feel. Let them show you their wee-wee so they may not be body conscious. Let them scream so they may be heard.
If you need to write something or talk, then take your capitalist suit to the Big Boy down the street and have your corporate meeting, Poindexter.
have you been visiting the Boulder Creek coffee shops ?

[Spackling Compound]

have you been visiting the Boulder Creek coffee shops ?
Nah, it's just the trend here in a University town.
Dirty haired women with open-minds let their half-dressed spawn run about the place. If you correct the child, comment on it, then you're probably not a good person, you're intolerant of natural childish behavior and need to take a chill pill.

[gary bolt]

If it goes on long enough I let people know they're too noisy whether adult or child. One time in a sushi bar my wife and I asked to be moved away from a large birthday group. Ten minutes later they bought us beers because they felt bad. They were no less noisy but we had free giant bottles of Sapporo.

[Boldido]

All I ever had to say was "do we have to have a chat?" They knew that "have a chat" meant go to the car and be dealt with harshly.

If the kid is old enough to talk, the kid is old enough to listen.

Amen, preach on brother.

As many of you know, I have a five year old and a two year old. We go out from time to time and try to enjoy dinner. From time to time my kids will get loud or act inappropriately. When that happens, they get a warning. After that they get taken outside. I wish I could say that I have never had to go outside, but that isn't the case. I have eaten many a cold meal and more than one patron has been treated to the sight of my son standing in some outside corner of the restaurant.

Part of parenting is teaching your kids how to behave themselves in a variety of situations. My son and daughter need to learn how to act in a nice restaurant and that that is different from McDonalds which is different from Chuck E Cheese. Every child needs to learn this. Parents who don't teach them these things are doing their children a tremendous disservice.

I do have to say that I found this line from the article to be particularly stupid.

“I think every parent of kids needs to sit down and actually teach them where it’s appropriate to be kids, and when it’s appropriate not,” said child psychologist Robert Butterworth.

Umm, no. They are always kids, that's what they are. What parents need to do is teach them what is appropriate behavior in various situations. There is nothing wrong with being a kid and the kid is going to be a kid 24/7, thats just what they are. They just need to know how to act.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I'm totally copping the "I'm too stupid to lie" excuse at some point for something.

Trust me, you won't be the first.

[Ray R.]

Coffee shops are also for forty-ish, fifty-ish earth mothers who bring their brood in and while they sit with a cup of tea and talk to the recovering alcoholics, they let Jacob, Eliah and Misha run about the place because it's homespun and children need to explore and question and touch and feel. Let them listen to you talk so they may learn. Let them touch your laptop so they may feel. Let them show you their wee-wee so they may not be body conscious. Let them scream so they may be heard.
If you need to write something or talk, then take your capitalist suit to the Big Boy down the street and have your corporate meeting, Poindexter.

Right on, bro. You forgot the name "Hunter" though.

We always get complimented on the quietness of the kids (one's six, the other's 16 months), but if you can't teach your children that going out requires behavior modification (or you don't go out again like Mommy and Daddy, sorry), then frankly, that's just piss-poor parenting. It is about the other patrons, but it's more about instilling in children politeness, manners, and how to act as a proper human being in public. That doesn't mean you sit fearfully quietly like a rock, but you sit in your seat, you don't run around, and you use your inside voice. If you do, you get treated like a big girl, if you don't, then home again, home again, jiggity-jig.

For the baby boy, it's a little tougher because they don't quite get the home/non-home thing, but we always bring a bottle and we'll take him outside if the going gets rough. He loves to climb, so I'll let him scale me like a rock-climbing wall until he gets tired, and then it's back to being strapped in.

The keys to becoming a productive member of society, with respect for elders, with respect for manners, with respect for people with disabilities, who look or sound different, with respect for acting mature in some places, and acting like an escaped convict in others, that's a lifetime process, and it's part of being a good parent. And it's hard sometimes. Really hard. But I can hope at least that the kid I mold today, turns into a half-way decent citizen down the line, or at least a thoughtful one.....

[Kid Omega]

Nah, it's just the trend here in a University town.
Dirty haired women with open-minds let their half-dressed spawn run about the place. If you correct the child, comment on it, then you're probably not a good person, you're intolerant of natural childish behavior and need to take a chill pill.

Aside from agreeing with you, I wanted to ask what University town you are from...

I am also from a southern college town...

-a

[Spackling Compound]

Aside from agreeing with you, I wanted to ask what University town you are from...

I am also from a southern college town...

-a
Oxford, MS....Home of Ole Miss.

[Kid Omega]

Oxford, MS....Home of Ole Miss.


Ahhhh, yass.

Sewanee, TN here. University of the South. We have mountain hippies, so I feel your pain.

Of course I've lived in NYC for going on ten years now, so I can't complain too much...

-a

[Jasper]

I live in a major collage town also -Knoxville, TN here. And we have a huge mix of types of people. All in all I've not had the joy of going into a coffie shop or a really nice restaurant and deal with screaming brats. Most of them are regulated to Micky D's, Chucky heese or a buffet. People here bring too many brats to the buffet. But that's not say I won't get the joy of the experience.

As I was growing up it's always been under serious threat that if I didn't behave I was going to regret it. It usually ment a spanking and grounding when I got home. I never got grounded or spanked for misbehaving in a restaurant. When my parents split and I took over major child rearing duty I never my brothers to a restaurant if they couldn't behave. I've walked out of places because of the older one, and as Solaris or anyone who met him at Dragoncon last year he's a better kid for it.

When I have my own kids I know how I'm going to deal with them in these situations. Can't say all of it will be perfect but I have no problem getting dinner to go.

Also I too would like a list of places the people are going to boycott. SO i know where to make may new favorite night spots at. And I have a few recomendations they can add to that list.

[Slam_Bradley]

Heheheh. As a restaurant patron, and one-time father of a 2 year-old, I would never let my kid get so out of control as to disturb the other patrons. Those who do are, in my opinion, beneath contempt. Strike that. Not contempt. Pitiable, I think.

Also as a patron who's been seated in a restaurant a booth away from 3 screaming kids, I'm not above calling the waitress/hostess over and request seating in the "no screaming kids" section of the restaurant. This should ALWAYS be done loudly enough for the group to overhear.

Now before I get shouted down by the folk who say "Hey, it's not easy to keep a kid occupied and out of other patron's hair at a restaurant!", I tell you I agree with you. Been there, know how tough a kid on a bad day can be.

Thing is: If you can't do it, don't take 'em.

That's what Chuckie Cheese is all about.


Can I just say...AMEN, BROTHER!

[Slam_Bradley]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.


That's because you've never had an independent three year old. It is harder than hell to keep them either, a) where they are supposed to be or b) in sight if you let them down. If they're on a leash, they can move about but they can't escape or be stolen. You're being creeped is immaterial.

[K'Nort]

That's because you've never had an independent three year old. It is harder than hell to keep them either, a) where they are supposed to be or b) in sight if you let them down. If they're on a leash, they can move about but they can't escape or be stolen. You're being creeped is immaterial.

And that's a really important part. From the kid's perspective, it's pretty cool. Mobility! Particularly when the alternative is hanging non-stop onto a grown-up's hand. And thus you have your arm in the air non-stop and it gets sore.

[Ray R.]

And that's a really important part. From the kid's perspective, it's pretty cool. Mobility! Particularly when the alternative is hanging non-stop onto a grown-up's hand. And thus you have your arm in the air non-stop and it gets sore.

Or the constant carrying.....my kids sure aren't getting any lighter.....

[Slam_Bradley]

Or the constant carrying.....my kids sure aren't getting any lighter.....


Stop feeding them so much. And start them on the methamphetamine weight loss program.

[Ray R.]

Stop feeding them so much. And start them on the methamphetamine weight loss program.

"Crank -- it's not just for breakfast anymore."

If I do that though, I might need something stronger than a leash. Perhaps a taser....that'll keep 'em down until the appetizers come out....

[Dee3]

As for me I applaud the coffee shop owner here.
Permissave parenting is annoying I really can't stand it when kids scream and cry in a public place for an extended period of time.It's irresponsible.

Another example is a grandmother who allowed a six and eight year olds, watch Beavis and Butt-Head and they burned down the house, to me it is very irresponsible to allow young children to watch certin programming because said show is for adults.


Or the mom who had a law enacted because she allowed her five year old to walk across a busy street and he got hit.(she was on the other side and now cars on both sides must stop when a school bus stops.)

[Smoogis]

a bit off topic, but this reminded me of something.

I was always afraid of other people in restaurants when I was little. Only trouble I've ever gotten in was when I was 12, we were at disney world, and my mom was in the bathroom. Dad told me to go check on her, so I did. As I was coming back, I was walking along the aisle and my arm hit against a wine glass and it went pouring all over this woman wearing a really nice dress. She had put the glass right at the edge of the table, which is a really stupid thing to do, but anyway. I was petrified for a moment and a waiter came up behind me and whispered for me to run. So I did.

God bless the waiter or I would have been slaughtered carrie style.

[Spike-X]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.
I'd rather see a kid on a leash than splattered all over the hood of my car.

To the topic -

Kim Cavitts is one of those moms. She says she won't take 2-year-old Abby someplace they feel un-wanted.

I hate to tell you this dear, but if you're incapable/unwilling to restrain your child from running amok in a coffee shop, then I'm sorry, but you are unwanted. Deal with it.

"She was told that ‘A,’ she either needed to be quiet, or ‘B,’ leave," said Cavitts.

For starters, I'm sure she wasn't told anything. Unless little Abby is just so remarkably advanced for her age that she already knows how to read.

For seconds, there's a world of difference between parents being asked to not let their kids run riot, and being forced to sit in stony silence for the entirety of their visit.

For thirds, quit your whining. Surely one annoying crybaby in the Cavitts family is enough?

[west3man]

a bit off topic, but this reminded me of something.

I was always afraid of other people in restaurants when I was little. Only trouble I've ever gotten in was when I was 12, we were at disney world, and my mom was in the bathroom. Dad told me to go check on her, so I did. As I was coming back, I was walking along the aisle and my arm hit against a wine glass and it went pouring all over this woman wearing a really nice dress. She had put the glass right at the edge of the table, which is a really stupid thing to do, but anyway. I was petrified for a moment and a waiter came up behind me and whispered for me to run. So I did.

God bless the waiter or I would have been slaughtered carrie style.
S'funny.

I guess people get their kicks wherever they can. One told you to haul ass, so you did. One told me, as a young'un, to use a mallad on my crab legs.

So, in the middle of dinner in this restaurant, a 7-year-old starts BANGING on the plate with a frickin' mallad. Crabs for everyone!

That didn't come out right, but you know what I mean.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Perhaps a taser....that'll keep 'em down until the appetizers come out....

That's brilliant.

The glass/plates collector just walks along and zaps any children in the restaurant, keeping them all quiet and under control.

It'd be fun to watch as well.

[Deathstroke]

I would love to have restaurants without children at times.

If you can't keep your kids to some modicum of public discipline, don't take them out.

If restaurants have to be smoke free, there's no reason why they can't put a leash on this other rather big irritant.

[SteelTownr]

Kudos to all of the Parents on this board for doing the right thing.

I'd love to see a list of these restaurants that are under boycott too, it would be a great place to work. Waiting on families is a nightmare. Kids eat free or cheap and they are twice as much work. A lot of Parents think it is cute to have them order on their own. Most of the time they are too shy to say anything to a stranger, so you have to stand their while the Mom says "Tell the man what you want, Sweetie". Kids suck down soda like they just got off of a forced march in the Sahara, so that means twice as many trips to the table. And, when they do finally leave, the table and surrounding area look like downtown Baghdad.

As far as the movie theater goes, I think that children under 12 should be welcome at all movies PG-13 and above, but the tickets should be $25 a piece. Make it cheaper for the Parents to pay a babysitter.

Mark B.

[Fabian]

A lot of Parents think it is cute to have them order on their own. Most of the time they are too shy to say anything to a stranger, so you have to stand their while the Mom says "Tell the man what you want, Sweetie". Kids suck down soda like they just got off of a forced march in the Sahara, so that means twice as many trips to the table. And, when they do finally leave, the table and surrounding area look like downtown Baghdad.
So true although the place I work at it's 4 times as many trips with refills since kids cups are half the size of regular cups. This reminds me of the time I gave a kid (maybe 9 years old) a reg adult glass because I knew he was going to swallow that soda in one gukp in a kid's cup and when the kid spilled it, the mother looked and got angry at me because her kid spilling the soda was somehow my fault

[Michael P]

I think there's something all parents could stand to be reminded of:

To you, your child is a wonderful miracle, the light of your life, the most beautiful creature on the planet.

To everyone else, he is the product of your rutting.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I think there's something all parents could stand to be reminded of:

To you, your child is a wonderful miracle, the light of your life, the most beautiful creature on the planet.

To everyone else, he is the product of your rutting.

With that in mind, a picture paints a thousand words!

[Fabian]

My mustache doesn't grow like that see:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1005399/SmilinStache.jpg

But the sombrero is spot on

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

My mustache doesn't grow like that see:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1005399/SmilinStache.jpg

But the sombrero is spot on

How did I go with the customers though?

[Fabian]

How did I go with the customers though?
It doesn't look well on me so I got greeted by uneasy smiles. Thank goodness mustache week is over and 80s hair week never came into effect.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It doesn't look well on me so I got greeted by uneasy smiles. Thank goodness mustache week is over and 80s hair week never came into effect.

By "I" I meant ME.

In the drawing.

Fool.

[Fabian]

By "I" I meant ME.

In the drawing.

Fool.
I read it as "it" so it was "how did it go with the customers though?"

Customer's are spot on. I've had parents like that

[K'Nort]

Kudos to all of the Parents on this board for doing the right thing.

I'd love to see a list of these restaurants that are under boycott too, it would be a great place to work. Waiting on families is a nightmare. Kids eat free or cheap and they are twice as much work. A lot of Parents think it is cute to have them order on their own. Most of the time they are too shy to say anything to a stranger, so you have to stand their while the Mom says "Tell the man what you want, Sweetie". Kids suck down soda like they just got off of a forced march in the Sahara, so that means twice as many trips to the table. And, when they do finally leave, the table and surrounding area look like downtown Baghdad.

As far as the movie theater goes, I think that children under 12 should be welcome at all movies PG-13 and above, but the tickets should be $25 a piece. Make it cheaper for the Parents to pay a babysitter.

Mark B.

There are some weird liquor laws around here. One result, however, is that many decent restaurants can't allow minors -- even accompanied -- after 8pm. So some people have a shot at avoiding them. But it sucks that overall, you have to go somewhere expensive in order to have a peaceful meal. Although for larger cities, you can sometimes get both cheap and quiet if you go to the really ethnic places. Most parents won't take the kids out for Vietnamese or Lebanese.

The other thing that totally rocks is we have second-run movie theatres with $3 admission, full bars, cheeseburgers, and no kids allowed by law because of the alcohol! For that, I wait an extra month to see things.

[Typo Lad]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.

I hate to say this, but we owned one.

Used it three times. We made Tot understand that it was a "special" bracelet, but it wasn't a reward. she was wering it because we couldn't trust her two year old self not to run off into traffic.

After internalizing that, she started sticking to our sides like glue.

I did recently have to threaten to get a new one.

[YoursTruly]

I'm a parent and I've actually left a restaurant in mid-meal because my kids were misbehaving. The problem is that no one has any respect for the people around them. I've found that having a group of people stare at the parents with a look of disgust helps the situation.

This thread leads me to a question. I was at a restaurant the other night that has a bar. I was dressed seductively because I was on a date and there... sitting AT the bar was an 8 year old boy. His grandparents were sitting there with him. Does anyone else see a problem with letting your small children sit AT the bar? This particular restaurant has a smoking section away from the bar area and a non smoking section.

Also... I went to the 10:00 showing of The Saw 2 this past weekend and there were 3 kids under the age of 10 and one that I would say was about 2 years old in the theatre... am I the only one who sees anything wrong with that picture?

[Typo Lad]

Also... I went to the 10:00 showing of The Saw 2 this past weekend and there were 3 kids under the age of 10 and one that I would say was about 2 years old in the theatre... am I the only one who sees anything wrong with that picture?

No, you're not.

Remember the toddler who chocked to deaht on Popcorn at the movies? It was during Alien vs Predator.

The Hard Parent in me thought "What the HELL was she doing bringing a toddler to that film?"

[Rosie]

I dunno about loud kids, but I hate being on the bus with a crying baby. It's so fucking loud. I have big headphones on blasting Slayer at full volume and I can still hear the kid.

[Boldido]

I'm a parent and I've actually left a restaurant in mid-meal because my kids were misbehaving. The problem is that no one has any respect for the people around them. I've found that having a group of people stare at the parents with a look of disgust helps the situation.


I have also found engaging the kid can be helpful. A lot of times the kid is acting up because he is bored as hell. Every once in a while I'll see a kid in a restaurant who is obviously bored stiff and engage in a prolonged game of peek-a-boo. I have yet to receive any other response from a parent but profound gratitude. This isn't to say that anyone is obligated to follow suit, but it can be fun and it turns a situtation around so that everyone is able to walk away feeling good.

[Paradox]

At my hotel, I regularly get to tell people to get their unruly children under control, even to the point of throwing them out.

It feels GREAT! :)

[YoursTruly]

I have also found engaging the kid can be helpful. A lot of times the kid is acting up because he is bored as hell. Every once in a while I'll see a kid in a restaurant who is obviously bored stiff and engage in a prolonged game of peek-a-boo. I have yet to receive any other response from a parent but profound gratitude. This isn't to say that anyone is obligated to follow suit, but it can be fun and it turns a situtation around so that everyone is able to walk away feeling good.

My finace is big on that. Somehow he ends up being every kid's best friend no matter where we go. lol It usually makes the situation worse when I try this method. the kid gets all excited and just gets louder.

[west3man]

I have also found engaging the kid can be helpful. A lot of times the kid is acting up because he is bored as hell. Every once in a while I'll see a kid in a restaurant who is obviously bored stiff and engage in a prolonged game of peek-a-boo. I have yet to receive any other response from a parent but profound gratitude. This isn't to say that anyone is obligated to follow suit, but it can be fun and it turns a situtation around so that everyone is able to walk away feeling good.
Awesome.

I think a lot of parents forget that children aren't just luggage that they have to take with them to do stuff they actually enjoy - and that these things usually bore the hell out of kids.

I hated when my mom wanted to take me along if she went shopping with her girlfriends. Sooooooo boriiiiiiiing.

[Slam_Bradley]

And, when they do finally leave, the table and surrounding area look like downtown Baghdad.


Some of us tip significantly more generously when we have our kids with us for just this reason.

[Boldido]

Some of us tip significantly more generously when we have our kids with us for just this reason.

Yup, 20% for the meal, 10% for the mess, or more depending on how messy it got.

My wife used to be a server (she is currently a doctor) and she always cleans the table when we go out. She stacks the dishes and wipes the crumbs. Often servers will come to the table at the end of our meal and ask my wife if she used to wait tables because its so unusually clean. Unfortunately, we don't bring a vacuum with us when we go out to dinner, so we can't get everything.

[Perry Holley]

and a waiter came up behind me and whispered for me to run. For some odd reason I find this hysterically funny.

[west3man]

For some odd reason I find this hysterically funny.
Cuz you've got a functioning sense of humor? :)

He's like the Psycho Pirate or something.

[kmeyers]

Also... I went to the 10:00 showing of The Saw 2 this past weekend and there were 3 kids under the age of 10 and one that I would say was about 2 years old in the theatre... am I the only one who sees anything wrong with that picture?

it's amazing what movies parents will drag their young children to. I was in the theatre seeing The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and this younger mom waltzed in with her kids one may have been six, the other one under 5. I couldn't believe it, it's not like she accidentally went in to the theatre not knowing what this movie was about...

I did once see a woman bring her kids to see Bad Santa, she must have been in a hurry and missed the R rating, and thought it was a family Christmas movie. After the first five minutes of a drunken, cussing Santa, pissing himself, she grabbed the kids and went tearing out of the theatre.

[howyadoin]

I was at a restaurant the other night that has a bar. I was dressed seductively...I can't be the only guy who noticed that statement...

[YoursTruly]

I can't be the only guy who noticed that statement...


LOL Unfortunately that's why I can't post a pic of me here... I don't have any that are kid friendly. :o

[YoursTruly]

I did once see a woman bring her kids to see Bad Santa, she must have been in a hurry and missed the R rating, and thought it was a family Christmas movie. After the first five minutes of a drunken, cussing Santa, pissing himself, she grabbed the kids and went tearing out of the theatre.


Hahaha I bet that was funny to witness. I wish we could somehow get parents to pay attention to the rating on video games... especially online games.

[Fabian]

Some of us tip significantly more generously when we have our kids with us for just this reason.
You're probably one of like 8 people who do that. Parents tip badly in my experrience even if the kids eat free

[howyadoin]

LOL Unfortunately that's why I can't post a pic of me here... I don't have any that are kid friendly.Curses. Foiled again.

[Guapo Méndez]

If I may...Howyadoin's prowess with the digital reprocessing of pictures is quite matchless. I'm sure he could airbrush those parts not quite post-able and make the material more presentable.

Win-win situation, if you ask me.

[Fabian]

Curses. Foiled again.
It's never stopped you from receiving naughty PMs

[YoursTruly]

If I may...Howyadoin's prowess with the digital reprocessing of pictures is quite matchless. I'm sure he could airbrush those parts not quite post-able and make the material more presentable.

Win-win situation, if you ask me.

I wouldn't try to convince me too much... I'm easily persuaded. :p

[StoneGold]

This is why I always carry a bag of oranges in my car. Kid shuts up, and no bruises for evidence.

[YoursTruly]

This is why I always carry a bag of oranges in my car. Kid shuts up, and no bruises for evidence.

LOL I wonder who actually beat someone with a bag of oranges first to find out it doesn't leave bruises...

[Boldido]

LOL I wonder who actually beat someone with a bag of oranges first to find out it doesn't leave bruises...

I think it was a Chicago cop with a citrus allergy who was sent a bag of oranges from Florida as a gift.

[Slam_Bradley]

LOL I wonder who actually beat someone with a bag of oranges first to find out it doesn't leave bruises...


It was someone who couldn't find a phonebook.

[YoursTruly]

I think it was a Chicago cop with a citrus allergy who was sent a bag of oranges from Florida as a gift.

Hmmm... you seem to know an aweful lot about this. You wouldn't happen to be from Chicago, would you? :p

[StoneGold]

Hmmm... you seem to know an aweful lot about this. You wouldn't happen to be from Chicago, would you? :p
All things considered, I'm guessing Florida.

[howyadoin]

I wouldn't try to convince me too much... I'm easily persuaded.Heh. Evidently you don't know this crowd too well yet.

http://www.theliquidimage.com/samplpages/sports/images/bullfighter.jpg

[heretic]

I think a lot of parents forget that children aren't just luggage that they have to take with them to do stuff they actually enjoy - and that these things usually bore the hell out of kids.

I hated when my mom wanted to take me along if she went shopping with her girlfriends. Sooooooo boriiiiiiiing.
Tell me about it, I am 31 and still dread the prospect.

I recall a tale of my Aunt Brenda-Jean visiting my Mom when I was little. She was showing Aunt Jean-Jean around Hollywood Blvd with me in tow when at some point I got tired and, instead of fussing or crying, I just sat down.

(fortunately she did check the time and take the hint, I have seen some parents who would take violent offence at anything but absolute compliance/cooperation with thier most unreasonable whims)

HTG

[K'Nort]

I think it was a Chicago cop with a citrus allergy who was sent a bag of oranges from Florida as a gift.

Based on Some Like It Hot, that sort of thing probably happened all the time.

[YoursTruly]

Heh. Evidently you don't know this crowd too well yet.



I really don't know this crowd yet. I'm pretty new and I gotta say... I'm havin a good time with you guys. :D

[SteelTownr]

Also... I went to the 10:00 showing of The Saw 2 this past weekend and there were 3 kids under the age of 10 and one that I would say was about 2 years old in the theatre... am I the only one who sees anything wrong with that picture?

That is just plain wrong.

I don't mind going to see "Lilo and Stitch" or "The Incredibles" and hearing kids, I am on their turf.

But in an "R" rated movie at ten O'clock, there is no excuse for childish behavior.

Like I said, charge them $25 to get in, the scummy parents that drag them along will stay home or find a baby-sitter.

Mark B.

[SteelTownr]

Some of us tip significantly more generously when we have our kids with us for just this reason.

God Bless You!

The problem is, and it is the first word of your post, some.

Most don't.

Parents should keep in mind that 15-20 percent of the bill is a guideline. If the service is good and some of the people at the table weren't paying full price, you need to compensate.

Mark B.

[west3man]

God Bless You!

The problem is, and it is the first word of your post, some.

Most don't.

Parents should keep in mind that 15-20 percent of the bill is a guideline. If the service is good and some of the people at the table weren't paying full price, you need to compensate.

Mark B.
Need?

What do you mean about some people at the table not paying full price?

[SteelTownr]

Need?

What do you mean about some people at the table not paying full price?

I meant kids, they rarely pay full price, but they are usually twice the headache.

Also, if two couples are at a restaurant and only one of the couples are eating, you have to consider the opportunity cost of the table to the server.

Another thing to consider is time spent. Before I got a sattelite dish, my Wife and I went to the bar to watch the Steelers. She was the Designated Driver, so she didn't have more than one beer or usually a soda that was refilled for free for three hours. I always tipped a lot more than usual because I took into consideration the fact that my Wife was taking up a seat for three hours without adding much to the bill.

Mark B.

[Solaris]

When I was a waiter, especially when I was at the Olive Garden, and especially with that godawful Sunday after-church family crowd, we'd get the occasional disruptive kid. Running up and down the aisles, throwing food, yelling, whatever.

And let me tell you, from a waiter's perspective, the best thing to do is ignore it. You can't tell the parents to control their rug rat, because even if they agree with you their instinct is to protect their offspring against outsiders. So that's a waste of time. Then, too, the other diners are usually annoyed by this unholy demonspawn, and it's pretty easy to give nonverbal cues that say "I know, I hate the little noise factory myself, but I'm not allowed to do anything." At that point, you've entered into a conspiracy with the other patrons, which means bigger tips.


Sometimes it helps if you put it in terms of "their child may get hurt", i.e. "Sir/Ma'am, we're concerned that your child might end up with an adult falling on them, with them running around the aisles---especially if it's a server carrying a tray of hot food and drinks. We don't want your child to get hurt---could you please try to keep them to your table?" it works okay.

You think a restaurant is bad? Try working in a new age bookstore, with glass shelves full of crystals etc. and baskets of herbal essence oils, etc., and have a toddler running loose while mom is perusing a book she's interested in. I've had that---the store was a converted house, and made up of several rooms; mom was off in la-la land, while kiddie was getting into *everything*. I thought working the Children's section of the library was bad, when kids ran rampant... but that was worse. (And our local libraries posted signs about not leaving children unattended, in the library or in a section, which was a wonderful thing. We actually had one little boy PEE on an entire shelf of books, once.)

I have an active 4 yr. old, who sometimes gets hyper in public. If we can't maintain a certain amount of control on him, he gets carried/dragged outside. If that doesn't fix it, we get our food into to go boxes, and go home. We try to get him to moderate his voice, to stay seated (that one's tough, but often he'll stand at the end of the table, not so bad), and to in general behave in restaurants (and everywhere). Constant and persistent application of this has paid off; and the percentage of time that he behaves continues going up as he gets older, and we make it clear that some things are simply NOT acceptable.

(PS---West, he's gotten a lot better than the last time you saw him: doesn't try to race circles around the table anymore!) Heh.

In contrast, I recall a time when we went to a Red Lobster. The two parents talked and ignored their 2 yr. old girl; mainly the father yakked in a loud voice. Toddler kept getting into things, especially trying to bang a butter knife on the glass windowpane behind their table. Only time parents would pay her any attention was to occasionally bark at her, and temporarily take away the knife. To top that off, the guy was rude to the waitress, and complained loudly about his meal... even dragged the manager over for it.

We made a point to tell the manager, when we left, that their waitress did a fine job, and the guy was just rude and obnoxious, and paid no attention to his own attention-starved child to boot. Manager expressed apologies (we said don't worry, not your fault), and that this couple always did that when they came in, and he couldn't understand why they keep coming back if they don't like the food/service... and that they'd had several diners complain about the family that night. Seriously, they were really disruptive, both the father and the kid. (I felt sorry for the kid, with those parents.)

Some people I will just never understand.

[Solaris]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.


Michael, don't argue. They may look like you're treating your kid like a dog, but in reality it's a parent's effort to keep their kid in reaching range and out of trouble. Little sweaty hands are hard to hang onto, when you've got 30 lbs. of dead weight pulling against it---not to mention, sometimes it's hard to hang up clothes back onto the rack or whatever when you're doing it one-handed.

Kids can get into the most awkward spots (like under the clothes rack) or disappear in a flash---if a parent cares enough to put a "hard to hang onto" kid onto a leash, roll with it. It's a *good* thing. :)

And we tried leashes with Finn, but he kept getting out of them. I don't like the ones that attach to the kid's wrist because I don't want them to pull away and injure themselves, so we tried the "body harness" type. We got very very good at holding his hand, but we also had to carry him a lot, which can be very difficult at times, and cut a lot of shopping trips, etc. short, because he wanted down, but then wouldn't hold our hands.

[Solaris]

I did it with three kids. It's not that hard. Here's the formula:

1. Do not let your children behave in public in a way that you would not allow them to behave in your living room.

2. Do not allow your children to behave like wild animals in the living room.

Consistency of expectations is all you need.

If you can't do that, then by all means, boycott all restaurants. Please. Movie theatres too while you're at it. And stores. Keep your little savages at home.

Or maybe you could do your duty as parents. What's your duty? It's this: All normal parents love their children; a parent's duty is to raise their children so that other people can love them too.

I'd like to add that teach kids how to behave in public, and that there are places where it's appropriate to romp (i.e. park, McD's playroom, etc.) and places where it is *not*, also goes a long way toward teaching them how to behave in places like the classroom, where they have to behave when *you* aren't around.

[west3man]

(PS---West, he's gotten a lot better than the last time you saw him: doesn't try to race circles around the table anymore!) Heh.
Finn-Dash wasn't wandering around the restaurant or interacting with other patrons, as I recall. In fact, I thought the restaurant was pretty empty by the time he perked up. At any rate, kids are going to be kids. When necessary, you stepped to him. That's what counts, imo.

[Solaris]

When I was a kid, my parents were complimented all the time at how well behaved my brother and I were. Little did our fellow patrons realize that we were under threat that we were to behave "or else." We were in such mortal fear of what "or else" was, it's hard to believe that, even today, I don't know what "or else" was.

I'm the same with my kids now. Poor behavior is met with the evil eye at first, then to the shaken finger and a warning and, lastly, the nuclear option (a/k/a one parent collects "to go" boxes all around as the other takes the offending child to the car). I always hated rowdy kids when I was a waiter and when I was a normal (i.e. nonparent) person, so I refuse to inflict screaming, rotten children on my fellow patrons.

It works pretty well. The only time I can think of where we pissed off pretty much everyone around us was when my now-2 year old son was teething and we were trapped in an airplane. He screamed pretty much nonstop the entire flight and, despite all our valiant efforts to quiet him down, we were unsuccessful. When the stewardess came by and asked me if I wanted anything, I simply said, "Cyanide." That brought a chuckle from the people around us at least.


Airplanes and babies. That's the tough one, because you're trapped. Now, with an older child, you can force them to sit, etc., but with a screamer or a fussing baby, there's just not a whole lot you can do. If the parent is trying six ways from Sunday to get their kid quiet (baby or otherwise) and having difficulties, I *do* feel sympathy for them, even if my ears hurt, on a plane. With an older one, you have more control, but with a baby... well, it's a baby, and sometimes they cry no matter what you do. And on a plane, you just can't "take them outside" or "take them home."

[Solaris]

Finn-Dash wasn't wandering around the restaurant or interacting with other patrons, as I recall. In fact, I thought the restaurant was pretty empty by the time he perked up. At any rate, kids are going to be kids. When necessary, you stepped to him. That's what counts, imo.

Well, if the place *hadn't* been so empty, I would've been holding him in his seat everytime he got up---or taking him outside. :) Thanks.

When he *does* interact with other patrons, it's invariably to smile and say "hi" and try to strike up a conversation. We still try to keep him to us, because we don't want him to disturb other guests, but at least his is a pleasant BRIEF interruption, when he does it. If they're enjoying it (they often do), we'll let him talk with them for a few seconds, then snag him back to us. If they look pained, we grab him right away. He's a friendly lil fellow, and we don't want to stifle that... but we also don't want him pestering people who want to eat in peace, so we sort of worked out a system on that, going by their responses. Even with the happy ones (which are most), we don't let him chat for long, because they're there to eat, not visit with our son. Heh.

[west3man]

Airplanes and babies. That's the tough one, because you're trapped. Now, with an older child, you can force them to sit, etc., but with a screamer or a fussing baby, there's just not a whole lot you can do. If the parent is trying six ways from Sunday to get their kid quiet (baby or otherwise) and having difficulties, I *do* feel sympathy for them, even if my ears hurt, on a plane. With an older one, you have more control, but with a baby... well, it's a baby, and sometimes they cry no matter what you do. And on a plane, you just can't "take them outside" or "take them home."
Besides, any number of things about the ride or environment could be setting the baby off.

I know I tell the Marlee Matlin story a lot, but they didn't know WHAT was making her scream her lil head off (as a baby). (I haven't seen this story confirmed anywhere in a while, btw, but it's still illustrative.)


Anyway, like you said, it's a pain, but the understandable situations are more bearable, imo.

[west3man]

Well, if the place *hadn't* been so empty, I would've been holding him in his seat everytime he got up---or taking him outside. :) Thanks.

When he *does* interact with other patrons, it's invariably to smile and say "hi" and try to strike up a conversation. We still try to keep him to us, because we don't want him to disturb other guests, but at least his is a pleasant BRIEF interruption, when he does it. If they're enjoying it (they often do), we'll let him talk with them for a few seconds, then snag him back to us. If they look pained, we grab him right away. He's a friendly lil fellow, and we don't want to stifle that... but we also don't want him pestering people who want to eat in peace, so we sort of worked out a system on that, going by their responses. Even with the happy ones (which are most), we don't let him chat for long, because they're there to eat, not visit with our son. Heh.
Heh. Mom says I was like that.

Finn's a heart-breaker, though. People would probably be more disappointed if you snatched him away too quickly, as opposed to the other way around.

(I know his safety's far more important, but I'm just saying.)

[DoomsDayDawning]

I hate sceaming kids, but its not their fault it parents. So dicipline your kids better!

[StoneGold]

I find if kids are screaming, you just need to give them a toy.

http://www.flagstaff.az.gov/images/pages/SC581/plastic%20bag.JPG

[Solaris]

Heh. Mom says I was like that.

Finn's a heart-breaker, though. People would probably be more disappointed if you snatched him away too quickly, as opposed to the other way around.

(I know his safety's far more important, but I'm just saying.)


You would've loved the other day at the Diner (our home away from home):

This little girl came in, maybe 15-18 months old. Beautiful kid---looked a lot like Typotot. So Finn goes over to greet her, and she holds up her arms and purses her lips for a kiss. He gave her one, and a hug too. Then he ran back to the table, grabbed one of his Thomas train cars, and handed her that, then stood back beaming and chattering to her. It was adorable.

On Halloween, he had more fun handing out candy than doing his own trick-or-treating. He'd wave the kids up, then run to the bowl and shout "Trick-or-Treat!" Then he'd grab a handful of candy and dump it into their bags. One family had twins in a stroller, and he just had to give each of them a kiss.

We're so lucky having a such a friendly, loving little boy. I hope he retains that, as he grows up.

[YoursTruly]

Aaaawe... you have a sweet little guy there. :D

[Slappy san]

Can the boycotting parents please put a list online of the places they boycott. I also want to know where I can get a cup of tea with some peace and quiet attached.

Yeah...I'd love that list. I hope they put a list of boycotted theatres as well.

[Slappy san]

I see those sometimes on the Upper West side, and they creep the hell out of me. It's your kid, not a cocker spaniel.

I'm getting one of those. Better to have someone think what you do than have the kid get run over by a car.

[Slappy san]

I did it with three kids. It's not that hard. Here's the formula:

1. Do not let your children behave in public in a way that you would not allow them to behave in your living room.

2. Do not allow your children to behave like wild animals in the living room.

Consistency of expectations is all you need.

If you can't do that, then by all means, boycott all restaurants. Please. Movie theatres too while you're at it. And stores. Keep your little savages at home.

Or maybe you could do your duty as parents. What's your duty? It's this: All normal parents love their children; a parent's duty is to raise their children so that other people can love them too.

Once again reaffirming that you are the CBR Parenting Guru.

[Slappy san]

I was one of those kids who ran and hid in clothing racks. The stories I hear about having other patrons screaming "there he is" and my Granny come home with her hair standing up. :D I sure hope my son never does that. The world is a different place now. Hence....I'm getting a leash/harness or something.

[Slappy san]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A26-387212.htm


Idiots!

[Michael P]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A26-387212.htm


Idiots!
Would it be petty of me to suggest that this woman is the owner of a bratty little crotch rocket herself, and intentionally skewing the article, letter, what have you, in defense of her precious little angels?

[Slappy san]

LOL Unfortunately that's why I can't post a pic of me here... I don't have any that are kid friendly. :o

Last time I checked....this wasn't a nursery. :)

[MacQuarrie]

They covered this story on the local news last week, and I finally got to see the sign that caused such an uproar.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/1110/5295366_320X240.jpg

Any parent who objects to that sign is an idiot who deserves the horrible little hellion they are raising.

[Michael P]

There are plenty of adults out there who could use a similar reminder as well.

[Valmore]

They covered this story on the local news last week, and I finally got to see the sign that caused such an uproar.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/1110/5295366_320X240.jpg

Any parent who objects to that sign is an idiot who deserves the horrible little hellion they are raising.

Where's the sign that says, "Drunken college louts must use their indoor voices when in here?"

[Michael P]

Where's the sign that says, "Drunken college louts must use their indoor voices when in here?"
"Children of all ages."

Besides, it's a tea house in a yuppie neighborhood. How many drunken college louts are they likely to get?

[Valmore]

"Children of all ages."

Besides, it's a tea house in a yuppie neighborhood. How many drunken college louts are they likely to get?

Who knows? But why take that chance? While they're at it, they could put up signs instructing everyone to use their indoor voices!

"Stock market brokers, you must use your indoor voice when in here."

"Those using our bathroom for a quickie must use their indoor voices when in here."

[Spike-X]

They covered this story on the local news last week, and I finally got to see the sign that caused such an uproar.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/1110/5295366_320X240.jpg

Any parent who objects to that sign is an idiot who deserves the horrible little hellion they are raising.
Going back to the woman in the original article, who was whining that "they were telling her precious little angel she wasn't welcome": If your precious little angel doesn't know to behave and use her indoor voice when she's, y'know, indoors, then no, she's not welcome.

Get over it.

[Spike-X]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0511/20/A26-387212.htm


Idiots!
"...frankly," Prentice, says, "it's discrimination, and it's terrible."

Erm...how exactly is it discrimination to ask that your kids behave like civilised human beings in public?

[Gilda Dent]

This is why I always carry a bag of oranges in my car. Kid shuts up, and no bruises for evidence.

I thought it was the opposite. Beating someone with a bag of oranges leaves a lot of bruising, but does little to no damage, making it look like the person has had the hell beaten out of her. Usually used for a battered woman set up.

Can't say for sure, though.

I think a lot of parents forget that children aren't just luggage that they have to take with them to do stuff they actually enjoy - and that these things usually bore the hell out of kids.

I hated when my mom wanted to take me along if she went shopping with her girlfriends. Sooooooo boriiiiiiiing.

I loved it when my mom did this with me.

~

I can't really comment on the smaller kids, except that I find them annoying, too. Sometimes I some older kids and can't help but think that if I can keep 20 five and six-year-olds occupied and behaving appropriately by myself for six hours a day, surely two parents can keep do the same with one.

Applause for all the parents here who do the right thing.

Gilda