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View Full Version : The Nocturna storyline: should it be collected?



Joe no Sleep
11-09-2005, 12:47 PM
This arc from the mid-80's by Doug Moench/Gene Colon/Don Newton,etc. is not in continuity and is "pre-crisis" but a lot of people seem to like it. I'd like to be able to read it in a way that doesn't invove spending a lot of money on back issues.

outlander78
11-10-2005, 04:57 AM
Could you tell me what issues comprise the Nocturna storyline? I'm tempted to search for it - perhaps between ebay, Mile High sales and digging locally it can be assembled.

Joe no Sleep
11-16-2005, 01:02 PM
Could you tell me what issues comprise the Nocturna storyline? I'm tempted to search for it - perhaps between ebay, Mile High sales and digging locally it can be assembled.

The trouble with this story was that it was really a rambling subplot that meandered a lot between 1983 and 1986 and ended around the time of Crisis, when Nocturna "died". A very "Harliquin Romance" heavy Batman. Anyway, this is the basic stuff...

Batman:362,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,389,390,391

Detective: 529,530,542,543,544,545,546,547,556,557,558,560

Also, a lot of the Detective Comics issues tended to be little more than "recap" pages of what happened in Batman, iirc, on account of how Dog Moench's purple prose was really thick. 544 is the one where Nocturna reveals that she deduced that Batman is Bruce Wayne.543 has Nocturna suing for custody of Jason Todd and possibly winning it because corrupt mayor Hamilton Hill had a grudge against Wayne not supporting in the election campagin, iirc (again). 556 has a famous "kissing" cover dover by Gene Colan, and 530 is my favorite of them all, a nice all-action story. Batman 389-391 is one big three-way catfight between Bats,Cats, and Nocturna.

The Shadow
11-17-2005, 10:09 AM
Personally I liked the Nocturna stuff... but most people seem to dismiss it as drivel because of all the romance elements that happened between Batman and Nocturna.

Honestly though I wouldn't buy a trade of them... because I own em all. :D

Babylon23
11-17-2005, 05:26 PM
I enjoyed the Nocturna stuff. Moench is one of the better Batman writers, and Don Newton and Gene Colon are excellent artists. I'd buy it if it was collected, but I doubt we'll see a trade of it anytime soon.

Joe no Sleep
11-23-2005, 12:07 PM
Personally I liked the Nocturna stuff... but most people seem to dismiss it as drivel because of all the romance elements that happened between Batman and Nocturna.

Honestly though I wouldn't buy a trade of them... because I own em all. :D


Nocturna is an interesting character stuck in a banal mess. I'd have preferred crisp. smart, bullet-paced dialogue and action scenes than so much head-thunking dialogue about "The Night, the night, ohhhh, the night." :D A kernal of an interesting idea - a love interest that accepts Batman at face value, while he wonders if he's getting carried away with his own hype -entangled in discombobulated soap opera horse$#!+. tsk,tsk.

The Shadow
01-01-2006, 10:35 PM
Honestly though I wouldn't buy a trade of them... because I own em all. :D
I'm not so sure if I own the ALL now... what was Nocturna's FIRST appearance?

Anyone know?

Thanks

Max_Dillon
01-02-2006, 06:59 AM
I wouldn't mind buying a collected edition of this storyline, the first comic book I ever owned was an issue of Detective that featured Nocturna. I can't recall the issue number right now, I'd have to go digging in my boxes for it, but the cover had Bats and Nocturna playing tug of war with Robin's costume. Plus, the issue had a cool Green Arrow back up.

Gingold
01-02-2006, 10:37 AM
Some of the first Batman comics I read were part of the Moench/Colan Nocturna saga. I have a fondness for this storyline too, and I'd love to see it collected.

It might make sense as part of an "80s Batman" Showcase Presents volume, since it's so many issues. Colan's art looks great in black and white too- as seen in the Essential Daredevil and Dracula books.

One of the problems with Batman and Superman is there's so much stuff out there that stories like this that fall "between eras" often slips through the cracks.

The Shadow
01-02-2006, 11:55 AM
One of the problems with Batman and Superman is there's so much stuff out there that stories like this that fall "between eras" often slips through the cracks.
Yeah... I agree... and it's too bad because potentially good stories get pushed aside in favor of crap like Hush.

DMike
01-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Has Nocturna "debuted"/rebooted/returned post-Crisis? I haven't seen her since.

The Shadow
01-02-2006, 05:33 PM
Has Nocturna "debuted"/rebooted/returned post-Crisis? I haven't seen her since.
Nope.

Since Crisis she's never reappeared.

ChildOfTheDarkholde
01-02-2006, 05:49 PM
Wow...Batman by Doug Moench and gene Colan???
Why did I miss that???

Was their Batman run long?
Was it good?

What's the 411 on Nocturna?
What was the plot about?

Captain Jim
01-02-2006, 06:04 PM
Nope.

Since Crisis she's never reappeared.

I don't think that's right. Wasn't she in ROBIN a few years ago? One of the issues by that guy in between Dixon and Willingham (never can remember his name)?

Captain Jim
01-02-2006, 06:19 PM
Make that Jon Lewis and Robin #102-105.

Captain Jim
01-02-2006, 06:21 PM
Wow...Batman by Doug Moench and gene Colan???
Why did I miss that???

Was their Batman run long?
Was it good?

What's the 411 on Nocturna?
What was the plot about?

As I recall, Colan had a nice run and it was very, very nice artwork (as one would expect). I seem to remember that this was during the period when the storylines shifted back and forth between Batman and Detective.

The Shadow
01-03-2006, 09:46 AM
Make that Jon Lewis and Robin #102-105.
She was?????

I don't get Robin and will have to look into that!

Balac
01-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Uh, no. Those Robin issues are a very cool story arc but it has nothing to do with Nocturna. Lewis wrote a good Robin, pity he didn't stay on the book.


She was?????

I don't get Robin and will have to look into that!

The Shadow
01-03-2006, 04:53 PM
Uh, no. Those Robin issues are a very cool story arc but it has nothing to do with Nocturna. Lewis wrote a good Robin, pity he didn't stay on the book.
Now I'm confused!

Someone PLEASE help! LOL

Trey Krimsin
01-03-2006, 06:54 PM
I also have a special fondness for this era since this was some of the first Batman stories I read back in the 80's. On the question of should it be collected, I'd like to see it, but I don't think it will happen. Like someone said earlier, the Nocturna/Night Stalker storyline always seems to be ignored by DC and various fans. Both Natalia and Anton Knight were written off thanks to Frank Miller's reincarnation of Batman. Those two characters will be ignored for a long time, especially since the current mythos has a very different Jason Todd.

Captain Jim
01-03-2006, 08:32 PM
Uh, no. Those Robin issues are a very cool story arc but it has nothing to do with Nocturna. Lewis wrote a good Robin, pity he didn't stay on the book.

Well, I *didn't* like Lewis, so I dropped the book before this. But that was the scuttlebutt at the time. If these issues have "nothing to do with Nocturna," then who is the Natalia who is in each issue? And why is the story in #105 entitled, "Exit Natalia. Enter...Nocturna?"

The Shadow
01-03-2006, 11:10 PM
why is the story in #105 entitled, "Exit Natalia. Enter...Nocturna?"
Good question! :confused:

Anyone?

Anyone???

Balac
01-03-2006, 11:54 PM
She may have shown up later, just not in issues you listed. 101-104 was kind of a low key arc with the focus being a woman whose powers caused a hightened emotional state in everyone around her. I thought it was well done with as much focus as Tim as on Robin.


Well, I *didn't* like Lewis, so I dropped the book before this. But that was the scuttlebutt at the time. If these issues have "nothing to do with Nocturna," then who is the Natalia who is in each issue? And why is the story in #105 entitled, "Exit Natalia. Enter...Nocturna?"

Captain Jim
01-04-2006, 06:43 PM
I got my info from the Mile High Comics site that shows covers, the initial three pages of story, creator credits and story title. If you're saying that information is incorrect, I'm afraid I'm going to need more than your word for that.

The Shadow
01-05-2006, 08:36 AM
I got my info from the Mile High Comics site that shows covers, the initial three pages of story, creator credits and story title. If you're saying that information is incorrect, I'm afraid I'm going to need more than your word for that.
And I JUST NEED TO KNOW!!!

IS NO ONE ELSE ABLE TO HELP????

Captain Jim
01-05-2006, 04:34 PM
The Shadow doesn't know? ;)

steeler80
01-06-2006, 08:33 PM
I'd definitely pick it up. This was the era when I was reading comics the first time around and I didn't miss an issue of Batman or Detective. They all disappeared under mysterious circumstances and I'd love to read them again.

The Shadow
01-06-2006, 09:27 PM
The Shadow doesn't know? ;)
errrr..... yes... THE SHADOW KNOWS... he's just not... positive! :p

Balac
01-09-2006, 08:21 PM
I pulled out my old Robin issues and re-read the Natalia arc (101-105). 'Natalia' is Natalie Metternich an ex-astronomer who (for reasons never mentioned) began to produce a pheromone that affected both her and those around her. To quote from 105: it 'Dilutes inhibitions, impairs the self-critical faculty, Encourages grandiose behavior.' A schizophrenic man is exposed to her pheromone and becomes convinced Natalie is a witch who is causing the voices in his head. Natalie is a victim in all this, driven half-mad by her own 'power'

Was Natalia supposed to be a post-Crisis version of Naoctura? On the final page of 105 is the line 'Exit Natalia, Enter...Nocurana?' Maybe, the character never shows up again after this storyline and aside from the name had nothing in common with the old character.

Read the issues anyway, it's a good arc.

Captain Jim
01-09-2006, 08:30 PM
I have this vague memory of reading an interview with Lewis soon after he was given the Robin assignment in which in talked about bringing Nocturna back in this storyline. So that and the title are enough to satisfy me.

Balac
01-09-2006, 11:29 PM
Ok, so you have not read the books but due to a 'vague memory' are sure that this character is Nocturna. Right....


I have this vague memory of reading an interview with Lewis soon after he was given the Robin assignment in which in talked about bringing Nocturna back in this storyline. So that and the title are enough to satisfy me.

Captain Jim
01-10-2006, 07:57 PM
No, that only reinforces the presence of her name in the title, which is pretty much unexplainable otherwise.

Captain Jim
01-10-2006, 08:18 PM
I hate it when people make me spend obscene amounts of time searching for stuff in order to prove my word, but this should put it to rest. :p


O'Shea: Do you plan on developing new supporting characters for the book or will you utilize the existing characters and landscape?

Lewis: The first year or so of stories employ characters that Robin has met before, in one way or another, where I take these existing characters and kind of "distill" what I think is their essence-- write to what I find their most interesting aspects. There's a rebuild of Nocturna in the first arc, then the arc that's about to hit the stands deals with the moth-monster Charaxes. Somewhere around 112 I start trotting out characters I've made from scratch, but there's still more pre-existing ones I'm going to use.

The whole interview is here (http://www.orcafresh.net/interview/in110402.html).

Balac
01-10-2006, 11:11 PM
I suspect that is what Lewis intended. As it stands now though the first arc is linked only to Nocturna by the name. When she came back I guess was when the character would 'become' Nocturna but that never actualy happened. Pity, I would have enjoyed that a lot more then the mess that came after Lewis's run on Robin.

Captain Jim
01-11-2006, 08:26 PM
*shrug* Lewis called it "a rebuild of Nocturna in the first arc." That arc was already history at the time he made the statement. I guess it's open to debate as to whether what he produced actually qualified as such, but that's what he considered it. (I take "rebuld" to mean a reworking of the former character, not the identical version.) In any case, given all this, I don't see how you can say the arc "has nothing to do with Nocturna."

brentmcd
05-28-2011, 03:17 PM
I loved Nocturna -- and her crazed brother the Nightslayer too. Those Moench/Colan Batman stories were some of the first comic books I collected, and I think they hold up fairly well. Good memories of picking up a Detective, then the story would continue two weeks later in Batman.

Does anyone know if Nocturna got re-booted in 2008-9? Apparently she made some appearances in Salvation Run, Trinity, and Gotham Gazette. I haven't read any of these but thinking I might seek the back issues, if they're worthwhile.

Death Itself
05-28-2011, 04:24 PM
Absolutely not. Moench on Batman in the 80's was awful. Better time be spent finally putting out trades of his Master of Kung Fu run or even his "Batman-lite" run on Moon Knight than that drivel.

ngroove
05-28-2011, 08:31 PM
I loved Nocturna -- and her crazed brother the Nightslayer too. Those Moench/Colan Batman stories were some of the first comic books I collected, and I think they hold up fairly well. Good memories of picking up a Detective, then the story would continue two weeks later in Batman.

Does anyone know if Nocturna got re-booted in 2008-9? Apparently she made some appearances in Salvation Run, Trinity, and Gotham Gazette. I haven't read any of these but thinking I might seek the back issues, if they're worthwhile.

For half of the part of rebootal, no. She still got her traditional appearance, and balloon. The other half, probably; after all; the pre-crisis Jason Todd was a huge part of her.

Whether ya' wanna know if "they're worth it"; maybe, just to see "she's still around"; that's about it. She's basically fodder, for the likes of Hawkman, even the Spoiler, pre-Batgirl. Her current personality, of current, is undeveloped; other than night burglaries via balloon. She's somehow even got a "power" now, I believe. Otherwise, she's just Nocturna now in name only; we don't know how much of her previous pre-crisis history still sticks, neither even juicier; if she still has feelings for Batman.

As for Night-Slayer; always wondered. Last seen, after being broken out by Ra's ( Batman 400), he's still out there somewhere, pursuing Nocturna out there, to kill her. I wonder....

JohnnyHorror92182
05-29-2011, 06:17 AM
Sounds good. Maybe it can show up in a DC Presents collection. I'd buy it.
http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/6/67/Detective_Comics_530.jpg

Eclipso the Terminator
05-29-2011, 06:43 AM
I am quite positive I've seen Nocturna within either Batman or Detective at some time post crisis. However, that's 20 years of back issues and I can't even remember what era to look in.
Also, more love for the Nightslayer. Ingenious design. This was a fairly racy storyline for an eight year old to read.

kevink31593
05-29-2011, 06:52 AM
Holy revived threads, Batman! The original post of this thread is from 2005.

A Tales of the Batman - Gene Colan (http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Batman-Gene-Colan-Vol/dp/1401231012/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306676883&sr=8-1) collection will be released this summer.

One of the issues being included in the collection is Detective #529, "The Thief of the Night!", the first appearance of Nightslayer, and the beginning of the Nocturna storyline (Nocturna first appeared in Batman #363, which came out right after 'Tec #529, but is not included the the Gene Colan collection). The Gene Colan collecion is a "volume 1", so it's very likely the second volume will include more Nocturna/Nightslayer stories.

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/a/a6/Detective_Comics_529.jpg

Scud
05-29-2011, 07:03 AM
Sure why not, I mean as long as it has Batman written on the cover its sure to sell. I've never read this story so I would definitely buy it.

battyfan1
05-29-2011, 04:29 PM
i always saw nocturna as another version of catwoman..........she was like a copy her.....

Jackson Brody
05-29-2011, 08:27 PM
I demand this Nocturna be restored to continuity IMMEDIATELY!

benicio127
05-30-2011, 06:32 AM
She was in a Battle for the Cowl issue, I believe Stephanie Brown was chasing after her. Those were two-part issues, Gotham Gazette: Batman dead? And Gotham Gazette: Batman is alive!

In pre-Crisis, Jason had really started to consider her like a mother to the point of resenting Selina Kyle for being Bruce's no. 1 love because he wanted a family, and Bruce didn't love Natalia as much as he did Selina. Selina was never going to provide the mother role for Jason like Natalia did.

shaxper
05-30-2011, 07:01 AM
Absolutely not. Moench on Batman in the 80's was awful. Better time be spent finally putting out trades of his Master of Kung Fu run or even his "Batman-lite" run on Moon Knight than that drivel.

Funny. It's one of my favorite Batman runs of all time. Guess we're all entitled to our opinions.

If anyone would like to read my issue-by-issue review of the entire Nocturna saga, you can view it here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=339570&page=8) as part of my "Batman 300 and Up" review thread. It starts five posts down.

I do feel that the story arc has its ups and downs, and though it took me a while to start liking Nocturna (her initial pretentiously Gothic demeaner really turned me off), she thoroughly won me over part way through, and I felt she was done a tremendous disservice when she was killed off at the end of the run.

The Thief of Night, on the other hand, I NEVER liked him...

battyfan1
05-30-2011, 06:39 PM
She was in a Battle for the Cowl issue, I believe Stephanie Brown was chasing after her. Those were two-part issues, Gotham Gazette: Batman dead? And Gotham Gazette: Batman is alive!

In pre-Crisis, Jason had really started to consider her like a mother to the point of resenting Selina Kyle for being Bruce's no. 1 love because he wanted a family, and Bruce didn't love Natalia as much as he did Selina. Selina was never going to provide the mother role for Jason like Natalia did.

i never new that from jason.....i thought he liked selina......but he did get really close to nocturna......i never understood how that happened..?