Homosexuality in OUTSIDERS

[Swingkid570]

Odd that the retailer wasn't warned about the "incest" comment in the same scene... Oh wait, this was in Arkansaw. Never mind.

[Lurker]

I'd really like to know the context of the story in which those pages exist in. After a cursorary read it really does seem like a scene straight out of a Boneyard Press Book . . .Immature shock value nonsense/aka/bad writing.

[AllisterH]

I'd really like to know the context of the story in which those pages exist in. After a cursorary read it really does seem like a scene straight out of a Boneyard Press Book . . .Immature shock value nonsense/aka/bad writing.

You do realize Sabbac was testing out his new powers a.k.a. control of the 7 deadly sins. Later out in this issue he busted out Pride and Hate on the titans.

[pennywisdom]

Nothing like starting out a thread with some informative, quality links. I feel like I just walked into the middle of a conversation.

[pennywisdom]

Never mind. I found it.

[king mob]

I couldn't believe how bloody awful it was-the gay sex-is Jimmy Carr writing for DC now or what?

I'd have labelled it for halfwits only, the idea of labelling something "mature" which seems to be written by a 12 year old is a puzzling one.

[Azrael52]

I actually liked this issue. It showed what type of "person" SABAC is. He was playing with his new powers. This is my comic shop that I go to. The guy is a great guy! Been in business for a long, long time. Heck of a guy. I don't know that I agree with the bagging as mature thing. I think that all DC comics I read (and that's a lot) aren't really for kids. There are the Johnny DC line of books, but this type of writing goes on in a lot of books. IMO.

[The Xenos]

What is the rating on Outsiders? Is it code approved? DC really needs to get a rating system. They're the only morons still using the stupid code.

Also, I'm really getting tired of Winnick forcing homosexuality on his books. PLus let's not forget his thing with AIDs in Green Arrow. Though that I rather liked. At the same time it seems like he's overdoing it. Yes, he's interested in certain political and sexual issues. Good for him. He doesn't have to put these issues in all his damn books. GA, GL, Outsiders. Oi. Enough already. oh and is it too much to ask for some new Barry (*$#ing Ween. A friend and I would give 50 issues of Outsiders for another one of Barry.

Acutlaly, I just realized something. Gay or straight, Outsiders seems to be pretty damn frisky. It's like a bunch of superhuman wackos all living together. Oh, wait. It's the superhero Real World by former real Real Worlder Judd Winick. Ok, I'm sure the book is better than that, I honestly nver got past issue one or two, but this sock value and some of the buzz I hear aobut it reminds me of that MTV reality show.

Also, compared to some of the other homosexuality and sexuality in the DCu, this seesm to have more of that Real World more shock valure. While I was rather in denial about Montoya, kinda like if soemone I've known for years suddenly came out, I rather have enjoyed that. The recent couple (or two?)in Villians United was nice.

Yet something about how Winnick portrays homosexuality and tries to flaunt it as an issue is rather annoying. Heh. it kinds reminds me of my militantly liberal supposedly bisexual friend from highschool who incidently enough introduced me to Winnick through Barry Ween. Militant in your face liberals are rather annoying as hell.

edit: As I said to a friend, yeah that may fly on the west coast or in NYC or Boston,b ut this is national publication. Comics are already on thin ice in many places like AK. At least give shop owners warning. Aside from homosexuality and places of stupid intolerance , I think this mainly points out that DC is desperate need to organizing it's books beyond Johnny CD, code appoved, almost barely noticeable non-code approved and mature readers / Vertigo. They are in desperace need of a ratings system.

-Xenos

[Quarterwolf]

What I find funny is that this book has had sex in it from darn near the beginning.

Grace and Roy were always bumping in the back room. Hell they usually fight while having sex.

This just reaks of ignorance and bigotry on the part of the "officer".

[CaptMagellan]

This just reaks of ignorance and bigotry on the part of the "officer".

It sounded to me like the Officer was pointing out the bigotries of the nation (or at least that part of the nation), lobbyists and moralists, and the possible repercussions to the store owner based upon that bigotry. Maybe due to the officer's comments, the store owner can avoid a 'Friendly Franks' kind of fiasco.

We don't know based on Rich's synopsis of the situation but I took it as a "Dude, if the wrong people get wind of this, they're gonna try and make your life miserable" sort of warning.

Either way though, it bodes ill... I'm glad the CBLDF is around.

[destruktolux]

I live in the area as Michael Tierney's store, and I thought I'd post some reasoned defense on his behalf.

Tierney operates two stores in the Little Rock area, and is one of about a small handful of comic stores in the state of Arkansas. Much of his store focuses on mainstream DC/Marvel books, and is one of the best back-issue retailers I've seen, period. As far as comics go, his store's the only game in Little Rock, and he's done an excellent job of maintining respectable public business in the community.

Tierney is an avid supporter of local creators, and tries to keep local work in stock--largely because Tierney is a self-publisher himself. As I'm sure any retailer can tell you, giving up precious money and shelf-space that could go to obvious sellers (particularly in a market that has little interest in anything outside of major superhero titles) to independant work does not always promise the best returns.

Most of the books with "mature" content are simply sold polybagged instead of on their own. There is no specific mature content area, and I've never seen him label books with his own content advisories. This is hardly tantamount to strong censorship, and although I'd prefer no content restrictions, many comics retailers have been forced to do similar things.

I read Outsiders, and the book is commonly paired up in marketing with Teen Titans, which has a strong children's readership. I thought that issue of Outsiders was particularly good, but I think most people would certainly think twice before giving it to kids.

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. I've shopped at Tierney's store a number of times and would gladly do so again. I disagree with his position on labeling, but I feel his record as a retailer speaks for itself.

[Kriminal]

What is the rating on Outsiders? Is it code approved? DC really needs to get a rating system. They're the only morons still using the stupid code.

Also, I'm really getting tired of Winnick forcing homosexuality on his books. PLus let's not forget his thing with AIDs in Green Arrow. Though that I rather liked. At the same time it seems like he's overdoing it. Yes, he's interested in certain political and sexual issues. Good for him. He doesn't have to put these issues in all his damn books. GA, GL, Outsiders. Oi. Enough already. oh and is it too much to ask for some new Barry (*$#ing Ween. A friend and I would give 50 issues of Outsiders for another one of Barry.

Acutlaly, I just realized something. Gay or straight, Outsiders seems to be pretty damn frisky. It's like a bunch of superhuman wackos all living together. Oh, wait. It's the superhero Real World by former real Real Worlder Judd Winick. Ok, I'm sure the book is better than that, I honestly nver got past issue one or two, but this sock value and some of the buzz I hear aobut it reminds me of that MTV reality show.

Also, compared to some of the other homosexuality and sexuality in the DCu, this seesm to have more of that Real World more shock valure. While I was rather in denial about Montoya, kinda like if soemone I've known for years suddenly came out, I rather have enjoyed that. The recent couple (or two?)in Villians United was nice.

Yet something about how Winnick portrays homosexuality and tries to flaunt it as an issue is rather annoying. Heh. it kinds reminds me of my militantly liberal supposedly bisexual friend from highschool who incidently enough introduced me to Winnick through Barry Ween. Militant in your face liberals are rather annoying as hell.

edit: As I said to a friend, yeah that may fly on the west coast or in NYC or Boston,b ut this is national publication. Comics are already on thin ice in many places like AK. At least give shop owners warning. Aside from homosexuality and places of stupid intolerance , I think this mainly points out that DC is desperate need to organizing it's books beyond Johnny CD, code appoved, almost barely noticeable non-code approved and mature readers / Vertigo. They are in desperace need of a ratings system.

-Xenos

I think Winick, for the most part, is a hokey, crap writer, but that doesn't make your comments any less thick-headed.

The idea of Marvel slapping PG-13 material like Rawhide Kid onto their MAX imprint because the character was homosuggestive was just about one of the lamest & most cowardly moves (masquerading as lukewarm sensationalism)I've ever seen from any comic publisher (nevermind the fact that the book ending up sucking anyway).

It goes to show the lame double-standard for representing sexuality/diversity in comics. People love to play the "we're protecting the impressionable youngster card", but kids can and probably do pick up any number of lame, and far more suggestive bad girl comics from "Top Cow" or "Chaos!" w/out any *warning label* or anyone so much as batting an eyelash.

Superheroes and superhero comics are founded on representing certain values; the values of depression era comics may not have been the values of every reader at that time, and the simple socio-political commentary of the 60's and 70's may not have been to every readers liking at that time either, but creators were given their space and they took advantage of it, and more power to them.

Winick isn't forcing anything down your throat (that's a kneejerk reaction by someone who may be more prejudiced than they imagine) he's simply addressing issues that interest him (inspite of your particular moral/social interests) whilst telling a prototypical superhero yarn, simple as that.

So watch superheroes beat the living hell out of each other in a cornucopia of spandex clad violence, and impossibly proportioned women in metal bikini's machine gun whole armies into a bloody pulp, but oh dear, don't give homos any leg room, they might make your kid queer!

[Paradox]

Kriminal doesn't see the REAL danger:

So watch superheroes beat the living hell out of each other in a cornucopia of spandex clad violence, and impossibly proportioned women in metal bikini's machine gun whole armies into a bloody pulp, but oh dear, don't give homos any leg room, they might make your kid queer!

Or worse, they might have to actually **GASP!** SPEAK to their children and explain what they're seeing to them.

Heaven knows they shouldn't have to parent...isn't the media supposed to do that for them??? ;)

[Kriminal]

Or worse, they might have to actually **GASP!** SPEAK to their children and explain what they're seeing to them.

Heaven knows they shouldn't have to parent...isn't the media supposed to do that for them??? ;)

Indeed. Being a parent today apparently does not require taking a vested interest in what your child does with his/her time...unless Bill O'Reilly says so.

[Swingkid570]

Winick isn't forcing anything down your throat


Ummmm, you want to rephrase that?
:rolleyes:

[Paul McEnery]

Oh, wait. It's the superhero Real World by former real Real Worlder Judd Winick. Ok, I'm sure the book is better than that, I honestly nver got past issue one or two, but this sock value and some of the buzz I hear aobut it reminds me of that MTV reality show.
Sock value?!?*

I didn't find it that exciting.

Oh, and nice call on the Real World thing.















*If you're not familiar with the onanistic value of socks, I apologize profusely for bringing it up. Really.

[MartinRedmond]

I remember that. The first thing that came to my mind was: "no mention at all about the incest"?

[DEWLine]

Or the crimes Sabbac II committed against inmates, guards, and fellow Fearsome Five members alike by his actions, for that matter?

[king mob]

I read this and the previous issue yesterday.

I don't think i've read anything so bad in comics for a while. Dreadful stuff.

[Satana Hellstrom]

What exactly happened in the book again?
What is it you guys keep referring to?

[king mob]

Check out Rich's column of the 7th of November and all will be explained.

[Steve J.]

Winick isn't forcing anything down your throat (that's a kneejerk reaction by someone who may be more prejudiced than they imagine) he's simply addressing issues that interest him (inspite of your particular moral/social interests) whilst telling a prototypical superhero yarn, simple as that. Has Winick written any DC titles that do not include homosexuality in the story? I've read about half of the Outsiders issues so far, and I believe the book would be just as good without the sexuality, be it homo or hetero. Maybe others enjoy it, but it doesn't add anything to the story for me.

[The Xenos]

Um.. then just don't read it. I know I don't.

At the same time, I think the big issue here is that DC has crap for a ratings system. If Jack Thomson ever took on comics the way he took on video games, I doubt comics would come out as good. At least video games have a clear ratings systems. Comics genreally don't and you have to rely on the shop owner who really can't keep track of everything. Plus DC is the worst. At least Marvel dropped the code and is trying a ratings sustem.

-Xenos