SM: HOM #5 - spoilers

[DarkCrisis]

Someone explain to me how the end of this mini ties back into the main HoM line cause I'mnot seeing it.

[jam1]

It doesn't. Mark Waid sucks, he doesn't have any respect for Spidey, that much has become obvious.

[WolverinesSon]

The story was straight doo doo. I didn't understand it. Why the hell do they gotta screw wit my boy Spidey like this anyways? In the House of M mini series. Peter is just chilling around Manhatten somewhere when Wolverine and them jump out on him and 'clear his mind' or whatever they do. But none of that crap even fits with what happened in the SM: HOM?!?!? WTF!!!! I don't know. Too bad comic book shops don't give refunds.

[Crimson]

Lets just all say it was Ben Reilly and we can sleep easy... heh

[jelly [blank] of doom]

I liked the mini.. But yeah, it didn't fit. At all. Damn it, Waid.

[Kevinroc]

Maybe Waid was signing his DC Exclusive and just stopped caring? I liked the first few issues but didn't care for #4. I kinda liked the end but yeah, it just didn't fit at all with the main mini.

[Nick Kal]

So when Marvel said that the series would be individual of HoM they meant it.

[Sean Whitmore]

So when Marvel said that the series would be individual of HoM they meant it.


Hell, even if it had tied in, it still would have made zero impact, just as every other mini and tie-in did (except maybe The Pulse, and the sum total impact of that issue was "Hawkeye wants to kill Wanda").

This has been less of a crossover than a series of "see what ____ is like in an alternate reality" stories. Each and every one of them were pointless in the bigger sense, and the best they could hope for was telling an entertaining, self-contained "What If" story (the only ones to succeed, for my money, were the Captain America tie-in and the FF mini).


SEAN

[BizarroBeachHead]

Hell, even if it had tied in, it still would have made zero impact, just as every other mini and tie-in did (except maybe The Pulse, and the sum total impact of that issue was "Hawkeye wants to kill Wanda").

This has been less of a crossover than a series of "see what ____ is like in an alternate reality" stories. Each and every one of them were pointless in the bigger sense, and the best they could hope for was telling an entertaining, self-contained "What If" story (the only ones to succeed, for my money, were the Captain America tie-in and the FF mini).


SEAN
Too right you are I'm afraind. I liked the mini, it was neato, but seriously, what was the point?

One of the things that kind of bothers me is that Marvel was touting the House of M as an event that would affect and change the entire Marvel Universe. Aside from the fact that we won't actually see any of those changes until the second big crossover, Decimation(which looks like it's really just going to affect X-Men), we still probably wouldn't see any changes as a result of House of M because apparently The Other is going to be the catalyst for change for Spidey. Marvel's really bringing me down with all this "Spider-man will never be the same again" crap.

[Will.S]

It doesn't. Mark Waid sucks, he doesn't have any respect for Spidey, that much has become obvious.
What are you babbling about, how did you come to this conclusion?

Someone explain to me how the end of this mini ties back into the main HoM line cause I'mnot seeing it.
House of M#1 leads into Spider-Man House of M which gave him all those memories of being with Gwen Stacy. The memories couldn't be removed from his head even after Wanda's hex magic wore off so by HoM#8 he's visibly angered and frustrated that he has to endure the loss of Gwen Stacy yet again.

[BizarroBeachHead]

House of M#1 leads into Spider-Man House of M which gave him all those memories of being with Gwen Stacy. The memories couldn't be removed from his head even after Wanda's hex magic wore off so by HoM#8 he's visibly angered and frustrated that he has to endure the loss of Gwen Stacy yet again.
I think the question was refering to, "How does Spidey faking his death at the end of Spider-man: House of M mesh with Layla waking up Peter Parker in the middle of New York where he's not pretending to be dead?"

Okay, maybe I wasn't being any clearer, but the point remains.

[DarkCrisis]

What are you babbling about, how did you come to this conclusion?


House of M#1 leads into Spider-Man House of M which gave him all those memories of being with Gwen Stacy. The memories couldn't be removed from his head even after Wanda's hex magic wore off so by HoM#8 he's visibly angered and frustrated that he has to endure the loss of Gwen Stacy yet again.

No you see, at the end of the Spidy mini he is no longer Spidy and on permanant vacation.

Where as in the main HoM series they find him being Spidy like he never left.

[Sean Whitmore]

Where as in the main HoM series they find him being Spidy like he never left.


They did? I recall them finding Peter out of costume with his family.

What doesn't mesh is that Peter's face is widely known, so I don't see how he could be walking around Manhattan without tons of people noticing.


SEAN

[BizarroBeachHead]

What doesn't mesh is that Peter's face is widely known, so I don't see how he could be walking around Manhattan without tons of people noticing.

Thats why it didn't really fit in, though I guess we could just accept that...er...people forgot about him...or something...I don't know...phooey.

[DarkCrisis]

They did? I recall them finding Peter out of costume with his family.

What doesn't mesh is that Peter's face is widely known, so I don't see how he could be walking around Manhattan without tons of people noticing.


SEAN

Oh thats right. Yea, he can't go back into New York even as Peter Parker. Yet thats where they find him like nothing bad happened.

[Will.S]

I think the question was refering to, "How does Spidey faking his death at the end of Spider-man: House of M mesh with Layla waking up Peter Parker in the middle of New York where he's not pretending to be dead?"

Okay, maybe I wasn't being any clearer, but the point remains.
No you see, at the end of the Spidy mini he is no longer Spidy and on permanant vacation.

Where as in the main HoM series they find him being Spidy like he never left.
Ah that. You guys have a point since even a kid bystander notices Peter and says "Spider-Man rocks!". Doesn't really match up too well unless there's some sort of explanation for that.

[jam1]

What are you babbling about, how did you come to this conclusion?


Waid's attitude is just all wrong, he said in an interview that he wasn't interested in wrapping the story up nor tie it to the main HoM story. Also he was going to write FNSM but in a FBR interview he whined about how he didn't know what to do with Mary Jane or Aunt May. He dislikes MJ and thinks that Spider-Man shouldn't have been married. Person like this should never write Spider-Man.

[darkhawk76]

does anyone else think he's got a point about Peter being married?

[Nick MB]

does anyone else think he's got a point about Peter being married?

I think it does suck a certain amount of potential drama out of the character, and it is a shame in some ways, but we have Ultimate Spidey for the romantic angst now. So the 616 writers will just have to find a way to make "married Spidey" work, since every time they try and break them up it never works.

[Mark Waid]

...he said in an interview that he wasn't interested in wrapping the story up nor tie it to the main HoM story.

Never said this. Never came close. And I'm sorry our end didn't tie more closely back into HoM, but because of the supersecretive nature of the project, I didn't get to read the individual issues of Brian's book any earlier than you guys did, so color us all surprised.

[Crimson]

Never said this. Never came close. And I'm sorry our end didn't tie more closely back into HoM, but because of the supersecretive nature of the project, I didn't get to read the individual issues of Brian's book any earlier than you guys did, so color us all surprised.

Thats odd... do you think there was perhap a fear you'd tell DC what would happen when you signed exclusive?

David Hine (and others I think) saw the scripts Bendis did for HoM so it just seems odd.

Thanks for posting though to clear it up.

[Waffles]

I didn't get to read the individual issues of Brian's book any earlier than you guys did

Wow. That's... That is absolutely ridiculous.

[Beast]

Wow. That's... That is absolutely ridiculous.
Especially when the other writers appear to have been given the scoop.

[Venom]

Apart from Mark Waid and Sean McKeever. Are there any other Spider-Man writers on this fabulous forum?

[Will.S]

Apart from Mark Waid and Sean McKeever. Are there any other Spider-Man writers on this fabulous forum?
Bendis posted like.....once.

Anyway can anyone no-prize the ending to match up better with the mini?

[Beast]

Bendis posted like.....once.

Anyway can anyone no-prize the ending to match up better with the mini?
Sure, but it's a lame cop-out.

What we saw never really happened. It was just another of Peter's journals. Instead of recounting his subconscious memories of the 616 reality, it was instead tearing apart his at that time real HoM/616 reality. The relationships we saw are real, but all that crazyness with Peter being outted as an empowered sapien was the real subconscious guilt he was manifesting. That his life was perfect, and he knew it shouldn't be. So fantasied destroying everything he cares about, just to feel better. The only time we see what is real is the beginning before the journal is located, when Peter shaves his head. And then we return to what's real at the end by the lake. They come back from the lake afterwards, now that Peter's finished pouring his heart out in the journal to relieve himself of stress, and is then awoken by Layla. Sure it's all Dallas-like, but it's better than what we got. And it's a shame, considering the first four issues were good.

[Sean Whitmore]

An easier no-prize ending (albeit still lame):

The events of Spidey HOM "happened" a few years before the events of HOM (that is, they didn't REALLY happen, but Peter had memories of them).

So since some years have passed, Peter feels comfortable showing up again in public. Since the whole world thinks he's dead, he figures anyone who recognizes him won't believe their eyes, and the few people who talk will be as believable as those who see Elvis at the 7-11. :D


SEAN

[Beast]

An easier no-prize ending (albeit still lame):

The events of Spidey HOM "happened" a few years before the events of HOM (that is, they didn't REALLY happen, but Peter had memories of them).

So since some years have passed, Peter feels comfortable showing up again in public. Since the whole world thinks he's dead, he figures anyone who recognizes him won't believe their eyes, and the few people who talk will be as believable as those who see Elvis at the 7-11. :D


SEAN
Hmm, could work. But how old does Spidey's son look in HoM? And he didn't really act like he was neverous to be in public at all, in HoM. I still say mine makes more sense, given we already had the mis-direction of the journal and Green Goblin. In the end, basically there's no way to rationalize things. At least the other books seemed to tie in closer. So we don't have to make leaps in logic to try to figure them out. :p

[Will.S]

Sure, but it's a lame cop-out.Yeah but I wouldn't expect an official explanation anytime soon so might as well has some fun with it.

What we saw never really happened. It was just another of Peter's journals. Instead of recounting his subconscious memories of the 616 reality, it was instead tearing apart his at that time real HoM/616 reality. The relationships we saw are real, but all that crazyness with Peter being outted as an empowered sapien was the real subconscious guilt he was manifesting. That his life was perfect, and he knew it shouldn't be. So fantasied destroying everything he cares about, just to feel better. The only time we see what is real is the beginning before the journal is located, when Peter shaves his head. And then we return to what's real at the end by the lake. They come back from the lake afterwards, now that Peter's finished pouring his heart out in the journal to relieve himself of stress, and is then awoken by Layla.
Not bad at all. Totally plausible.

Sure it's all Dallas-like, but it's better than what we got. And it's a shame, considering the first four issues were good.
I think the Spider-Man HoM mini was good in itself and I didn't find it to be neccessarily wrong since nobody clued Mark Waid on it which is odd. They should have told him at least the part up to where they recruit Peter.

An easier no-prize ending (albeit still lame):

The events of Spidey HOM "happened" a few years before the events of HOM (that is, they didn't REALLY happen, but Peter had memories of them).

So since some years have passed, Peter feels comfortable showing up again in public. Since the whole world thinks he's dead, he figures anyone who recognizes him won't believe their eyes, and the few people who talk will be as believable as those who see Elvis at the 7-11. :D
This also works so there you have it. Two reasonable ways to dodge the bullet.

[Crimson]

This is mine...

Its a bit similar to Sean's but I had this in my head early (I like to solve continuity problems for fun) so its pure coincidence.

This happened a while before HoM. After a while Peter thought that the whole journal thing must of just him totally losing his mind due to the stress of being a huge celebrity. It wasn’t real.
He begins going back into the city were he sometimes spotted and he soon becomes a thing of legends like people who believe they see 2Pac, Andy Kaufman or Elvis. Its mostly kids who seem to notice him as adults have a tendency to believe what they see (The picture of the hanged Spider-Man) so its really not that big of a deal going into a city of millions. He can blend in normally.
When Wolverine and co. come and wake him Spider-Man realizes he was right. So not only did he lose everything in the real world (Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, Captain Stacy etc) but just because he knew something was wrong he lose his entire fortune on this world. He lost all his money and the one’s he loves aren’t real and when he found this out... he was told he was nuts. Cue “I’ll kill Magneto”.

[alextok]

I actually liked Spidey HOM more than any of the other spin-offs. It was really exciting right up to when he "hanged himself". I thought that was a master stroke of story telling and almost brought a tear to the eye.

Then... I turn the page and find out he's alive! It's an alternate reality people! It shouldn't matter if he's killed off or not! That was more tragic than the deaths of ben, gwen and george put together!

Worst ending ever. (That was a mad fish he caught though!)

[Beast]

It's not an alternate reality it's an altered reality. We haven't learned yet if people who die in the HoM are dead when things reverted. We won't know until we know the status of Quill, amongst others. :)

[Gaz]

Never said this. Never came close. And I'm sorry our end didn't tie more closely back into HoM, but because of the supersecretive nature of the project, I didn't get to read the individual issues of Brian's book any earlier than you guys did, so color us all surprised.
Huh, I didn't think you'd get told the whole plot, but I figured they'd give a heads-up of where the character needed to be for the main plot.