View Full Version : TNA vs. WWE: should vince be worried?
master of read
10-31-2005, 09:33 PM
lately, wwe has been boring me with the same old matches and not really pushes some of the good talent tna has plans to show the first ever ultimate x match on spike thursday. my question is, should vince be worried over the increasing popularity of this brand?
Frankly, no. He's too ensconced to ever be put out of business. Should he take notice? Yes, but he's got nothing to fear.
cactusmaac
11-01-2005, 03:20 AM
Outside competition won't do him in.
marshal99
11-01-2005, 03:22 AM
Not at the moment , no but a year or so down the line , he might be if TNA keeps playing their cards right. It's good for wrestlers as they have more choice and good for TNA because all the WWE castoffs will just go to TNA and strengthen their brand and bring some of their WWE fans along with them.
Scorpion13
11-01-2005, 03:50 AM
A year down the line? No.
If things keep getting better for TNA? In 3 years maybe, Vince should take notice.
Especially, if they are able to entice somebody into buying them. WCW was able to snatch talent away from Vince with thier bottomless pocketbook, and that was with the legendary screwups running the show. If they get that kinda money, and management who arent stupid (and lets be honest,if there had been somebody who had some kinda sense running WCW at the time, Vince wouldnt have had a chance. Turner could have bought almost every peice of talent Vince had) , then Vince may be in for the fight of his life.
But for now? Vince has nothing to worry about.
BoosterBronze
11-01-2005, 10:02 AM
I also agree that given a couple years, and good management, TNA could pose legitamate competition to the WWE's dominance. Their affect is already clear... do you suppose Christian not accepting a crappy new deal with a midcard level spot had something to do with the emergence of TNA? Mayhaps.
Will TNA surpass the WWE? If they got a HUGE bankroll, and got some top WWE talent.
Imagine a world where wrestling each week on TNA's two hour primetime show was Angle, or Lesnar, or Batista, or Benoit or whoever. It would heat things up. Same thing happened to WCW; a big pocketbook gave them the top spot.
All I know is this should be fun to watch.
Forefinger
11-01-2005, 10:20 AM
Either way, some competetion for WWE will be good for the fans in that Vince and co will have to try to put out a good product as opposed to now where they have a virtual monopoly and don't put forth any effort.
sgt.candy
11-01-2005, 11:26 AM
tna dosent have jbl. so its much better than the wwe could ever be
Scorpion13
11-01-2005, 12:01 PM
WCW lost credibility when it gained the iage of not being able to make its own superstars. Almost all of the big stars were imports from McMahonland.
They absolutely cant fall into that trap the same way. Take talent from WWE, but they always have to be creating thier own stars.
Pól Rua
11-01-2005, 06:47 PM
WCW lost credibility when it gained the iage of not being able to make its own superstars. Almost all of the big stars were imports from McMahonland.
Of course, amongst the best wrestlers on the 'E' at the moment are Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guererro...
Taltos
11-01-2005, 08:17 PM
Of course, amongst the best wrestlers on the 'E' at the moment are Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guererro...
But then theres Kurt Angle, Shelton Ben, Shawn Michaels, Edge, Bobby Lashley, HHH, etc. It's pretty even and note that if they didnt have all the imports they wouldnt have to split the brand.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-02-2005, 01:41 AM
WCW lost credibility when it gained the iage of not being able to make its own superstars. Almost all of the big stars were imports from McMahonland.
They absolutely cant fall into that trap the same way. Take talent from WWE, but they always have to be creating thier own stars.
tna needs to phase joe, daniels, and aj out of the x and into the hw division imo.
vince doesn't need to worry about tna yet, he needs to worry about wwe for now.
Pól Rua
11-02-2005, 01:51 AM
vince doesn't need to worry about tna yet, he needs to worry about wwe for now.
Amen to that!
marshal99
11-02-2005, 02:24 AM
tna needs to phase joe, daniels, and aj out of the x and into the hw division imo.
So Jeff Jarrett can smash their heads with his guitar ?! TNA is depending on their x division to lure viewers in , without the X , TNA will just be simply WCW-lite complete with has beens and never was.
Jeff Jarrett rules the roost in the heavyweight division , the likes of Raven and Rhino were never destined to retain the title for long , they are just keeping the title warm for Jarrett.
Let fatjoe , daniels , AJ and all the crusierweights fight for the X-title. :D
Bright-Raven
11-02-2005, 02:51 AM
Actually, that's exactly what's wrong with TNA - Jeff Jarrett.
Should Vince be worried? Yes and no. If he loses his top guys (Jericho, Benoit, Angle, Guerrero) to TNA, then yes, he can hang it up.
WCW lost credibility when it gained the image of not being able to make its own superstars.
A false image at that.
Sting. Ric Flair. Harley Race. The Steiner Brothers. The Rock N Roll Express. The Fabulous Freebirds. Dusty Rhodes. The Road Warriors. You want to keep going? NWA / WCW has had a history of many legendary superstars, and they were stars long before they were in the WWF / E. Vince did as much stealing of talent to rebuild WWF as Turner did to rebuild WCW, historically.
Technically, ECW started off as little more than WCW's cast offs. Raven, Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn, Malenko, Shane Douglas... all of them were WCW doing dark matches or minor job roles when Paul Heyman left WCW and formed ECW.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-02-2005, 02:57 AM
So Jeff Jarrett can smash their heads with his guitar ?! TNA is depending on their x division to lure viewers in , without the X , TNA will just be simply WCW-lite complete with has beens and never was.
Jeff Jarrett rules the roost in the heavyweight division , the likes of Raven and Rhino were never destined to retain the title for long , they are just keeping the title warm for Jarrett.
Let fatjoe , daniels , AJ and all the crusierweights fight for the X-title. :D
there are plenty of guys to keep the x division going w/o fat joe, daniels, and AJ. and if you add these guys to the HW division it would liven things up, let them fight it out for the chance to be the guy getting bashed with the guitar if that's as far as one could get in the company. let shelly, strong, aries, sabin, bently, sonjay, and petey run the x division for awhile. plus from what i've heard the x cup tourney is going to come back with a TNA vs new japan theme this time, perfect way to create the new x division stars.
So Jeff Jarrett can smash their heads with his guitar ?! TNA is depending on their x division to lure viewers in , without the X , TNA will just be simply WCW-lite complete with has beens and never was.
Jeff Jarrett rules the roost in the heavyweight division , the likes of Raven and Rhino were never destined to retain the title for long , they are just keeping the title warm for Jarrett.
Let fatjoe , daniels , AJ and all the crusierweights fight for the X-title. :D
You obviously haven't seen my favorite Jarrett moment. He goes to hit AJ with the gittar and AJ "Pele"'s it out of mid-swing.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-02-2005, 04:57 AM
You obviously haven't seen my favorite Jarrett moment. He goes to hit AJ with the gittar and AJ "Pele"'s it out of mid-swing.
i remember that, very cool moment 4sho!!
Scorpion13
11-02-2005, 05:09 AM
Actually, that's exactly what's wrong with TNA - Jeff Jarrett.
Should Vince be worried? Yes and no. If he loses his top guys (Jericho, Benoit, Angle, Guerrero) to TNA, then yes, he can hang it up.
A false image at that.
Sting. Ric Flair. Harley Race. The Steiner Brothers. The Rock N Roll Express. The Fabulous Freebirds. Dusty Rhodes. The Road Warriors. You want to keep going? NWA / WCW has had a history of many legendary superstars, and they were stars long before they were in the WWF / E. Vince did as much stealing of talent to rebuild WWF as Turner did to rebuild WCW, historically.
Technically, ECW started off as little more than WCW's cast offs. Raven, Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn, Malenko, Shane Douglas... all of them were WCW doing dark matches or minor job roles when Paul Heyman left WCW and formed ECW.
Oh, no argument there. But by the time of the Monday Night Wars, most of those guys were out of action, and the mentality at the time was to get WWF stars. And what few actual superstars they had brwein where stuck in a perpetual midcard and jobbed out mercilessly. That cant be the case now. If Jericho wants in or Christian, sure, snap them up, but dont stop trying to develop your own main eventers.
JohnPopa
11-02-2005, 11:01 AM
The difference between ECW and TNA is ECW allowed a lot of guys to reinvent themselves and take their characters in new directions and reach their potential. TNA is just riding on guys' WWE/WCW-castoff fame.
ECW wouldn't have done nearly as well with Johnny Polo as they did with Raven.
That's the creativity TNA doesn't have. Rhino comes in as Rhino, Jeff Jarrett's the same lame character he was in WCW. No one's doing something new.
Hence the cast-off image they currently have.
VCreed32
11-02-2005, 11:44 AM
But the thing is, they're not really "charcters".
TNA puts the person/wrestler first.
JohnPopa
11-02-2005, 11:56 AM
Nonsense. They're just boring characters. This is not the era of Lou Thesz when a serious wrestling product was the intention.
Understanding how to mix character with the athletics and make it all exciting and engaging to an audience is the hard part of the job.
It's all about creating characters. Always has been. Using ECW as the template -- those were ALL characters, ALL gimmicks. Every last one of them, except for maybe a Jerry Lynn or a Lance Storm. RVD, Sabu, Taz, Sandman, Raven ... all gimmicks in the most traditional wrestling sense.
If you think a fed full of Jerry Lynn's and Lance Storm's is going to be a competitive product to WWE -- well, you have fun thinking that. Just don't ask me to invest in it.
VCreed32
11-02-2005, 12:23 PM
RVD had gimmick? (aside from being a stoner)
Sandman and Taz had gimmicks too?
Dennis K
11-02-2005, 12:30 PM
Didn't the WWE (then WWF) once have a advertising promotion that was all about how they were going to be giving the fans "fresh faces, more action" etc, etc. I think it was about the time that so many guys had left for WCW. If I recall correctly, and I very well may not, that was a pretty good time as guys who weren't normally in the spotlight got a chance to show what they could do. WCW made the mistake of signing everybody and not having a clue as to how to use them properly and stroke all their egos at the same time. Maybe competition will be just the thing that the WWE needs because it seems like they're stuck in a rut.
JohnPopa
11-02-2005, 12:32 PM
You think Sandman DIDN'T have a gimmick? The guy came to the ring bashing beer cans against his skull, carrying a kendo stick and with Woman at his side. What part of this implies 'just pushing the athleticism' to you? Taz? Taz was pushed as the ultimate suplex machine, his entire moveset was part of his gimmick. He was pushed as a legitimiately tough guy which he is NOT, to the point that people still ask how he'd do in shoot fights, even though he's not remotely a shoot fighter. RVD wasn't pushed as a stoner so much in ECW, he was The Whole F'n Show, he had Fonzie at his side, he did the thumbs, all this to make his in-ring talents MORE ENTERTAINING.
ECW in and of itself was an entire fed that was its own gimmick.
You don't have to be Papa Shango to be a gimmick wrestler.
Randy Savage was one of the greatest gimmick wrestlers of all-time. His promos and entrance are the reason people all over the world know who he is and still talk about him while a similarly talented but less interesting guy like Rick Steamboat is only known to the devout wrestling audience.
It's the alarming lack of working gimmicks that's hurting wrestling as entertainment. Everyone looks the same, talks the same, wrestles the same and everyone reacts the same to it. And that's no one's over and nothing can get anyone over.
EDITED because I forgot about the RVD 4:20 ECW stuff ...
VCreed32
11-02-2005, 12:40 PM
*shrugs*
Difference of opinion I guess.
Scorpion13
11-02-2005, 01:33 PM
Oh, and one more thing: Jeff Jarret. Guy has gotta go.
There's a reason he never took off in either promotion despite being given a pretty damn decent push in both of them. He is lame. And now, because his family owns the company, he is forced down your throat, going around hitting people with guitars and generally ruining the mood.
With him stinking up the joint, the TNA isnt gonna be much of a threat.
Forefinger
11-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Oh, and one more thing: Jeff Jarret. Guy has gotta go.
There's a reason he never took off in either promotion despite being given a pretty damn decent push in both of them. He is lame. And now, because his family owns the company, he is forced down your throat, going around hitting people with guitars and generally ruining the mood.
With him stinking up the joint, the TNA isnt gonna be much of a threat.
I agree. It's the tag teams and the X-division that make TNA appealing to me. The rest of it kind of sucks. The wrasslin' is much better in many of the matches than what is on WWE, but some of the promos are too horrible to watch, and their "heavyweight" matches aren't even at the WWE level. I do thinkt hat Jarrett sucks and is weighing down the whole promotion.
RVD had gimmick? (aside from being a stoner)
Sandman and Taz had gimmicks too?
Yeah, RVD and Sandman, and to a lesser extent, Taz, all played themselves, for the most part. Sandman acted like a drunk asshole, because he is. RVD was a cocky stoner who knew how good he was, and he basically is that.
Taz is one of the few legit tough guys in the business. (Didn't him and New Jack get into a fight at one point?)
Oh, and one more thing: Jeff Jarret. Guy has gotta go.
There's a reason he never took off in either promotion despite being given a pretty damn decent push in both of them. He is lame. And now, because his family owns the company, he is forced down your throat, going around hitting people with guitars and generally ruining the mood.
With him stinking up the joint, the TNA isnt gonna be much of a threat.
Jarrett gets a ton of flack purely for his role in the booking, when he's not that bad in the ring, and can cut a decent heel promo. He shouldn't be the centerpiece, but he's useful in a lesser capacity, just like HHH is.
Williams and Daniels are pretty good on the mic, actually, when they get to speak, and AMW have surprised me with their heel stuff.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-03-2005, 01:10 AM
Nonsense. They're just boring characters. This is not the era of Lou Thesz when a serious wrestling product was the intention.
Understanding how to mix character with the athletics and make it all exciting and engaging to an audience is the hard part of the job.
It's all about creating characters. Always has been. Using ECW as the template -- those were ALL characters, ALL gimmicks. Every last one of them, except for maybe a Jerry Lynn or a Lance Storm. RVD, Sabu, Taz, Sandman, Raven ... all gimmicks in the most traditional wrestling sense.
If you think a fed full of Jerry Lynn's and Lance Storm's is going to be a competitive product to WWE -- well, you have fun thinking that. Just don't ask me to invest in it.
i agree with this 100%, that is what TNA is lacking, creativity and originality. don't get me wrong they put on great matches alot of the time but when they get an x wwe guy they should try something different with them, maybe give them a totally different character and not even aknowledge their past. everybody will know who they really are anyways and it would just create talk. say they signed test, don't just bring him in as andrew martin, put him in a mask or make up and have him running around acting like a zombie or something way out there, then let the smarks feel like they're special because they can tell their friends "remember test from wwe?? that's him" that's what smarks love to do anyways. and the ecw guys did all have gimmicks, most of their gimmicks were based on who they really were multiplied by a 1000, but those are always the best gimmicks anyways.
Royal
11-03-2005, 01:15 AM
Not really.
But with WWE concintrating on UFC (which he shouldn't, btw. It's making him look very foolish) TNA has time setting up their fort. Their connections.
I think by helping NJPW get over here in America & possibly hook up with some MMA schools to help wrestlers recoup from injury & teach a couple moves, TNA can definatly be something powerful.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-03-2005, 01:19 AM
Not really.
But with WWE concintrating on UFC (which he shouldn't, btw. It's making him look very foolish) TNA has time setting up their fort. Their connections.
I think by helping NJPW get over here in America & possibly hook up with some MMA schools to help wrestlers recoup from injury & teach a couple moves, TNA can definatly be something powerful.
did you here about world x cup 06 with the theme being njpw vs tna?? that would be damn cool in my book, even if njpw only sends their young lions
Scorpion13
11-03-2005, 01:27 AM
Jarrett gets a ton of flack purely for his role in the booking, when he's not that bad in the ring, and can cut a decent heel promo. He shouldn't be the centerpiece, but he's useful in a lesser capacity, just like HHH is.
Williams and Daniels are pretty good on the mic, actually, when they get to speak, and AMW have surprised me with their heel stuff.
Youre right. He's decent in the ring, and is a good heel, but he aint the guy to carry the company. Keeping him in the top ranks is understandable, but the focus cant be all on him. If they dont understand that, then the TNA is just not gonna break through.
Royal
11-03-2005, 01:30 AM
did you here about world x cup 06 with the theme being njpw vs tna?? that would be damn cool in my book, even if njpw only sends their young lions
Curry Man to win.
Wouldn't that be a swerve. ;)
Curry Man to win.
Wouldn't that be a swerve. ;)
Hey, that could work, Daniels goes out in the opening stages, but re-enters as Curryman.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-03-2005, 01:44 AM
Youre right. He's decent in the ring, and is a good heel, but he aint the guy to carry the company. Keeping him in the top ranks is understandable, but the focus cant be all on him. If they dont understand that, then the TNA is just not gonna break through.
agreed, i really do hope this is his last run as hw champ and then i'd like to see him manage amw, but that is a bit of a waste since he can still go. maybe give him a partner and let them have a strong run in the tag division. james storm would be ideal for this because of the tennessee connection, so break up amw, chris harris would make a nice addition to the heavyweight division anyways, he just needs somebody to work the mic for him.
lboinyamouf4sho
11-03-2005, 01:45 AM
Hey, that could work, Daniels goes out in the opening stages, but re-enters as Curryman.
curryman is hot.....and spicy!!
Royal
11-03-2005, 01:48 AM
curryman is hot.....and spicy!!
KING OF SPICE!!
lboinyamouf4sho
11-03-2005, 01:52 AM
it's final, TNA need curryman
it's final, TNA need curryman
That's how to turn Daniels face! Then AJ can go heel and talk! :D
lboinyamouf4sho
11-03-2005, 02:19 AM
That's how to turn Daniels face! Then AJ can go heel and talk! :D
i thought aj was quite good as the gum chewing cocky young heel role, of course he had vince russo to help him out. they should pair him up with shane douglas to guide him and dub him "the phenomonal franchise" it would be appropriate for him to call himself the franchise of TNA.
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