A "My wife is really pissing me off!!!" thread

[Boldido]

Sure Morts has a hot wife. Sure she doesn't kill him when he invites a ton of people over for Shabbos, but not every spouse is exactly a peach to live with.

I have noticed that no matter what I do for my wife, she always finds something that she disapproves of. When this happens, she lets out what I have called, "The Sigh". The sigh is a sound that indicates profound disappointment and an indication of the misery she must endure.

I am no slouch around the house. I cook more often than not. I vacuum regularly. I help my son with his homework everynight and the rule around the kitchen is, "If my wife cooks, I do dishes...if I cook, I do dishes." Hell, I have a refrigerator magnet that says, "No woman ever shot a man while he was washing the dishes."

For that past five days, she has been out of town in Orlando for a Continuing Medical Education seminar. I have had the kids for the entire time. In addition to that I have been helping with the talent show for my son's school and been planning the fall festival for my daughter's school. This is of course while running a solo law practice.

My wife came home yesterday, the day of the talent show. She had to pick the kids up and get them to the school. She managed to do this and after the show I took her sister and nephew home so my wife could get my kids home and to bed. At 11:00 p.m., my wife woke me up, pissed that the pool was dirty and then started to go into a nag fest. "Why did you wait until today to wash the sheets? Why didn't you pick up my glass shelf from the glass store? What have you been doing for the past five days?"

Gee, I don't know...how about...everything?!?!?! Then I got, "The Sigh".

My wife and I have been drifting apart as of late and I find myself dreading her coming home. I have tried on occasion to do everything I can think of to make the house as beautiful as possible for her after she comes home from work. Each time, she managed to find reason to release, "The Sigh".

If it wasn't for my wonderful children, I would probably be pricing apartments.

Oh well, what can you do?

[Slam_Bradley]

It's times like these that I always say...It's better to be pissed off than pissed on.

[JeffreyWKramer]

It's times like these that I always say...It's better to be pissed off than pissed on.

People into golden showers excluded, of course.

[Converge]

Sure Morts has a hot wife. Sure she doesn't kill him when he invites a ton of people over for Shabbos, but not every spouse is exactly a peach to live with.

I have noticed that no matter what I do for my wife, she always finds something that she disapproves of. When this happens, she lets out what I have called, "The Sigh". The sigh is a sound that indicates profound disappointment and an indication of the misery she must endure.

I am no slouch around the house. I cook more often than not. I vacuum regularly. I help my son with his homework everynight and the rule around the kitchen is, "If my wife cooks, I do dishes...if I cook, I do dishes." Hell, I have a refrigerator magnet that says, "No woman ever shot a man while he was washing the dishes."

For that past five days, she has been out of town in Orlando for a Continuing Medical Education seminar. I have had the kids for the entire time. In addition to that I have been helping with the talent show for my son's school and been planning the fall festival for my daughter's school. This is of course while running a solo law practice.

My wife came home yesterday, the day of the talent show. She had to pick the kids up and get them to the school. She managed to do this and after the show I took her sister and nephew home so my wife could get my kids home and to bed. At 11:00 p.m., my wife woke me up, pissed that the pool was dirty and then started to go into a nag fest. "Why did you wait until today to wash the sheets? Why didn't you pick up my glass shelf from the glass store? What have you been doing for the past five days?"

Gee, I don't know...how about...everything?!?!?! Then I got, "The Sigh".

My wife and I have been drifting apart as of late and I find myself dreading her coming home. I have tried on occasion to do everything I can think of to make the house as beautiful as possible for her after she comes home from work. Each time, she managed to find reason to release, "The Sigh".

If it wasn't for my wonderful children, I would probably be pricing apartments.

Oh well, what can you do?

You could try standing up for yourself.

[HomerJay]

My wife and I have been drifting apart as of late and I find myself dreading her coming home. I have tried on occasion to do everything I can think of to make the house as beautiful as possible for her after she comes home from work. Each time, she managed to find reason to release, "The Sigh".

If it wasn't for my wonderful children, I would probably be pricing apartments.

Oh well, what can you do?

Dang, up until that point, I thought this was going to have a fairly humorous ending.
Every couple has moments, it just depends on what happens afterwards. Luckily, I have a wife that doesn't hold grudges. She can be screaming at me in anger and then be over it in 15 minutes.
She is a compulsive complainer and routinely calls me at work to complain about something I can't do anything about. Just today she called me to complain about how our daughter wasn't taking a nap and I silently let her bitch for 5 minutes before asking, "Is that all?" which prompted her to hang up on me. 10 minutes later, she called me again to ask what I wanted for dinner.

[Doug Strange]

You could try standing up for yourself.Man, Boldido, I can't believe you never thought of this!

[Boldido]

You could try standing up for yourself.


FUCK YOU CONVERGE!!!! Hey, you're right. I feel better.

Seriously, I'm not a shrinking violet. I will let her have it and she will apologize and then revert to the same behavior later. I really try not to fight with her much because I don't want my kids to hear it.

[Boldido]

Man, Boldido, I can't believe you never thought of this!

So that should have been the route to take, rather than have the doormat grafted onto my back?

Stupid, stupid, stupid!!!

[howyadoin]

Yikes. Between Boldido's and HomerJay's stories, I've gotta say I'm glad to be single.

[EZMOHR]

You could try standing up for yourself.


Just do what I do when my wife starts nagging at me, Roll your eyes and don't say a word to her. I garauntee she will apolgize to you before the night or day is over.

[Tadhg Adams]

Yikes. Between Boldido's and HomerJay's stories, I've gotta say I'm glad to be single.

I'm just glad I didn't marry their wives.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Oh well, what can you do?

I would recommend lots and lots of oral sex.

Seriously, though, Roger, sounds like the two of you need to sit down and have a serious talk about expectations and realities and whatever is going on. If that accomplishes nothing, marital counseling might not be a bad idea. Don't wait until it is essentially too late - which is all too common in marriage counseling. Get help while things are still workable.

Good luck, and it goes without saying that I'd be glad to chat with you if it would help to have someone to talk to more about this stuff.

[Boldido]

Yikes. Between Boldido's and HomerJay's stories, I've gotta say I'm glad to be single.

Well its not all bad. After all, I get to sleep with the same woman, day after day, week after week, year after...

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/Kill-Me-Now.jpg

[HomerJay]

Between Boldido's and HomerJay's stories, I've gotta say I'm glad to be single.
Yeah, but she offers a great benefit package.

[Michael P]

Okay, I'll be the first one to say it: couples therapy.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Yeah, but she offers a great benefit package.
Your wife? I'd say at least two great benefit packages!

[Slam_Bradley]

On a more serious note, Roger, having gone through this, I feel for you. I will say that while being single has its moments, it is also a major pain in the ass a lot of the time. And it has been enormously difficult on my boys. Nathan's grades are way down (relative though his standardized test scores are still through the roof) and Connor is acting out a lot.

I'd seriously suggest some couples counseling. It sounds like there are behaviors that probably both of you need to work on.

And, if you ever need to talk, buddy, let me know.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Okay, I'll be the first one to say it: couples therapy.

Except I said it a couple posts above yours.

Good thought, though.

[HomerJay]

I'm just glad I didn't marry their wives.
Hey, my wife kicks ass.
Yeah, she may love to complain but like I said, she doesn't hold grudges, she enables my geekiness, and she's a great cook.

Not to mention having huge breasts and swallowing...

[Doug Strange]

Marriage is great! I love marriage! My wife is the best, most beautiful!

Sorry, fellas, you've just gotta do a little preemptive maintenance when your wife reads the boards, too.

[Michael P]

Hey, my wife kicks ass.
Yeah, she may love to complain but like I said, she doesn't hold grudges, she enables my geekiness, and she's a great cook.

Not to mention having huge breasts and swallowing...
She have a clone?

[Mike Pothier]

Dang, up until that point, I thought this was going to have a fairly humorous ending.
Every couple has moments, it just depends on what happens afterwards. Luckily, I have a wife that doesn't hold grudges. She can be screaming at me in anger and then be over it in 15 minutes.
She is a compulsive complainer and routinely calls me at work to complain about something I can't do anything about. Just today she called me to complain about how our daughter wasn't taking a nap and I silently let her bitch for 5 minutes before asking, "Is that all?" which prompted her to hang up on me. 10 minutes later, she called me again to ask what I wanted for dinner.

My wife can be like this at times. She's very negative and critical about other people and has a hard time making and keeping friends. She's not a bad person at all, just not easy to get along with. I try to be as understanding as possible, though, because she's been through some really tough times as a child, and needs somebody in her life to be stable and emotionally strong. I'm happy to fill the role.

[Ray R.]

If it wasn't for my wonderful children, I would probably be pricing apartments.

Oh well, what can you do?

Hello, kindred spirit. You are not alone.

I work 70-80 hours a week, commute for minimum 2 hours a day, and do my own laundry, grocery shop, cook, and do all the yardwork, as well as take care of a 6 year old girl and 15 month-old boy, and when I lie down to see what's been Tivoed for the last week, I get called "lazy."

Oh, did I mention my in-laws live in my house, and have no income whatsoever.....?

Some of us are responsibility-driven, others are responsibility-averse. For putting up with a complete and utter lack of either appreciation or recognition, it takes a special kind of person to continue to strive to provide the best life possible for your children. You're that kind of person, and I want to believe I'm that kind of person.

I want my kids to have a father they can see as much as my work allows. So I suck it up, and deal with my narcissistic, nagging wife, and try to operate with baseline communications and compromises. I'm not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, far from perfect, but I always try to be a good dad and a decent husband....that's all you can ask for.

My advice -- pick your fights wisely. Let everything else slide off your back and not raise your blood pressure. Know you're doing the best job you can and not expect affirmations for it. I'd also pick a hobby that lets you withdraw from the fray -- I got back into comics and videogames at age 35 so as to have a little escapism and reason for withdrawal. Doesn't make me any less "lazy", but at least I derive some pleasure from it. You should do it too....again, take advice from me with a grain of salt....

Divorce is always an option, but it would kill me to have limited access to my kids. So I try to find peace, I reward myself when I can afford it, and I've changed the nature of my relationship with my wife to that of co-parent rather than soulmate. And I don't fight tooth and nail anymore because my wife won't change, so why kill myself trying....

Oh, a friendly shout-out to the makers of Xanax too. You're my peeps.

[Doug Strange]

My wife is PERFECT and I didn't even post on this thread! I don't know what you guys were imagining, but it wasn't me here on this thread.

[Tadhg Adams]

Sorry, fellas, you've just gotta do a little preemptive maintenance when your wife reads the boards, too.

She can read this bit too, Moron.

[HomerJay]

Your wife? I'd say at least two great benefit packages!
And you haven't even seen any pics of her 401k.

[Slam_Bradley]

Divorce is always an option, but it would kill me to have limited access to my kids.

Oh, a friendly shout-out to the makers of Xanax too. You're my peeps.


Trust me...the limited access is hellish. I haven't decided yet if it is worth the lack of fighting. I'm leaning heavily toward "not worth it."

I prefer the piquant freshness of Lexipro.

[Boldido]

My wife is PERFECT and I didn't even post on this thread! I don't know what you guys were imagining, but it wasn't me here on this thread.

I think that the title, "My wife is really pissing me off!!!" is such a foreign concept to you that you had to read the thread to see what it was about. That is the only reason someone who has such a perfect wife, like yours, would venture onto a thread like this.

You obviously came here to show people who might not be married, who might come onto a thread like this, how fantastic and...lets use the word...PERFECT...a marraige can be.





I'll bill you later.

[Doug Strange]

I'll bill you later.Damn, you're good.

[Dreadstar]

Trust me...the limited access is hellish. I haven't decided yet if it is worth the lack of fighting. I'm leaning heavily toward "not worth it."

Every goddamed Sunday when she pulls up to take him "home."

[Boldido]

Thanks everyone. All the different perspectives are more appreciated than you know. I'm sorry this kind of personal pain has to be experienced by people who I genuinely like and admire around here, but I do appreciate it.

[Shellhead]

There were several married guys in my anger management class. They became happier about their marriages when they learned to communicate better. Talking openly and constructively with the wife about a problem is almost always going to be more effective than silently resenting the status quo. Try to use "I" statements instead of "you" statements, to avoid an accusatory and confrontational tone, and avoid absolute statements. For example, "You are always yelling at me" is a confrontational statement and probably an exaggeration, while "I feel sad when you yell at me" is a better opening.

[Ray R.]

Thanks everyone. All the different perspectives are more appreciated than you know. I'm sorry this kind of personal pain has to be experienced by people who I genuinely like and admire around here, but I do appreciate it.

Hell, buddy, the best comedy comes from pain. You of all people should know that.

[Slam_Bradley]

Thanks everyone. All the different perspectives are more appreciated than you know. I'm sorry this kind of personal pain has to be experienced by people who I genuinely like and admire around here, but I do appreciate it.


That's what we're here for, Buddy.

Well some of us.

I'm just here for the beer and hot wings.

[Dreadstar]

That's what we're here for, Buddy.

Well some of us.

I'm just here for the beer and hot wings.

Yeah and you keep hoggin the celery and blue cheese.

Jerk.

[Forefinger]

I just want to kill everyone I see

[Ray R.]

That's what we're here for, Buddy.

Well some of us.

I'm just here for the beer and hot wings.

Speaking of which, I think I voice the wishes of many in asking for a courtesy "second flush."

No offense intended....

[howyadoin]

Well its not all bad. After all, I get to sleep with the same woman, day after day, week after week, year after...

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/Kill-Me-Now.jpgThat's not much of a sales pitch, buddy.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Roger, that sucks. My own story is perhaps not as bad, but some days I feel like it's getting there. I, too, work 70+ hour weeks, but none of that seems to count for anything when I walk in the door. The fact that I get my 4 year old daughter and 2 year old son up, fed and dressed every morning while she sleeps in (by the way, she doesn't work outside the home) doesn't seem to count for a helluva lot either.

Today, for example, I got what I like to call the "Gosh, I'm very disappointed in you" phone call around 2 p.m. It seems I haven't called the cable company regarding a dispute about our bill. While it strikes me that she is just as capable of talking to the cable company as I and that she doesn't have the whole work thing getting in the way of making the call and, not to put too fine a point on it, all the time she's pissing at me on the phone could be spent pissing at some helpless customer service rep at the cable company, I suppose all that is really beside the point.

Some days when I get the phone call, I hold the receiver away from my ear and look at the phone like she is speaking Martian. I just can't believe I get involved in such inane conversations with her sometimes.

But, on the whole, these are nitpicks. I love my wife and know that, in the end, I'm lucky to have her (I did fail to mention all of my little quirks and deficiencies in the above, didn't I?). Sometimes I wish, however, she'd tell me that she's lucky to have me.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

There were several married guys in my anger management class. They became happier about their marriages when they learned to communicate better. Talking openly and constructively with the wife about a problem is almost always going to be more effective than silently resenting the status quo. Try to use "I" statements instead of "you" statements, to avoid an accusatory and confrontational tone, and avoid absolute statements. For example, "You are always yelling at me" is a confrontational statement and probably an exaggeration, while "I feel sad when you yell at me" is a better opening.

How about "I feel like choking the shit out of you when you are a nagging bitch all the time?"

There. I feel better already.

[Slam_Bradley]

Sometimes I wish, however, she'd tell me that she's lucky to have me.


Well maybe if you'd get off your lazy ass and do some stuff around the house and not forget the important phonecalls then she would.

[Dreadstar]

There were several married guys in my anger management class. They became happier about their marriages when they learned to communicate better. Talking openly and constructively with the wife about a problem is almost always going to be more effective than silently resenting the status quo. Try to use "I" statements instead of "you" statements, to avoid an accusatory and confrontational tone, and avoid absolute statements. For example, "You are always yelling at me" is a confrontational statement and probably an exaggeration, while "I feel sad when you yell at me" is a better opening.


Been there, done that.

Communication is a two-way street. What you consider open and constructive might be considered a passive-aggressive attack, sometimes.

It doesn't matter HOW well you communicate your thoughts if the other person is becoming more and more predisposed to not listening.

[Ray R.]

Roger, that sucks. My own story is perhaps not as bad, but some days I feel like it's getting there. I, too, work 70+ hour weeks, but none of that seems to count for anything when I walk in the door. The fact that I get my 4 year old daughter and 2 year old son up, fed and dressed every morning while she sleeps in (by the way, she doesn't work outside the home) doesn't seem to count for a helluva lot either.

Today, for example, I got what I like to call the "Gosh, I'm very disappointed in you" phone call around 2 p.m. It seems I haven't called the cable company regarding a dispute about our bill. While it strikes me that she is just as capable of talking to the cable company as I and that she doesn't have the whole work thing getting in the way of making the call and, not to put too fine a point on it, all the time she's pissing at me on the phone could be spent pissing at some helpless customer service rep at the cable company, I suppose all that is really beside the point.

Some days when I get the phone call, I hold the receiver away from my ear and look at the phone like she is speaking Martian. I just can't believe I get involved in such inane conversations with her sometimes.

But, on the whole, these are nitpicks. I love my wife and know that, in the end, I'm lucky to have her (I did fail to mention all of my little quirks and deficiencies in the above, didn't I?). Sometimes I wish, however, she'd tell me that she's lucky to have me.

For some reason, I think the first homo sapiens hunter-gatherer, after spending days successfully hunting, stalking and killing an antelope or gnu or some other herbivore, when he got back to the cave, exhausted, bloody, and soiled, with fresh meat to grill for the family, he heard this:

"You're gone for that long, and this is all you have to show for it? This gamey carcass? Lazy bastard. And you could have sent a smoke signal to let me know you were okay. It's called common decency"


And so it goes.....

[Spike-X]

At 11:00 p.m., my wife woke me up, pissed that the pool was dirty and then started to go into a nag fest.

Fuck that shit. I'd have dragged her outside and thrown her in the fucking pool.

Probably best I'm single, eh?

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

For some reason, I think the first homo sapiens hunter-gatherer, after spending days successfully hunting, stalking and killing an antelope or gnu or some other herbivore, when he got back to the cave, exhausted, bloody, and soiled, with fresh meat to grill for the family, he heard this:

"You're gone for that long, and this is all you have to show for it? This gamey carcass? Lazy bastard. And you could have sent a smoke signal to let me know you were okay. It's called common decency"


And so it goes.....

"And I'm sick of this cave. It's too small, it's dirty and it smells like bear poop! And I've told you not to drag the carcasses over the new dirt floor..."

And then I bop her over the head with my club.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Well maybe if you'd get off your lazy ass and do some stuff around the house and not forget the important phonecalls then she would.

You would take her side, you bastard.

[Paul McEnery]

Just do what I do when my wife starts nagging at me, Roll your eyes and don't say a word to her. I garauntee she will apolgize to you before the night or day is over.
That makes a certain amount of sense.

Some of use are naturally thick-skinned (no offense) and can just absorb the chick shit.

And some of us can't.

But the important thing is always to ask yourself:

"What's she actually ticked about?"

Because it sure as hell isn't what she's acting ticked about.

[howyadoin]

But the important thing is always to ask yourself:

"What's she actually ticked about?"

Because it sure as hell isn't what she's acting ticked about.Now that is a damn good point.

[Shellhead]

Been there, done that.

Communication is a two-way street. What you consider open and constructive might be considered a passive-aggressive attack, sometimes.

It doesn't matter HOW well you communicate your thoughts if the other person is becoming more and more predisposed to not listening.

We spent an entire session on communication styles, which were:

aggressive
passive
passive-aggressive
assertive

Assertive is the way to go. It involves straight-forward discussion of what you want and what you need, as well as what the other person wants and needs. Aggressive would be threats, ultimatums, demands, and confrontational remarks. Passive would be doing what she wants while silently resenting that you didn't assert your own needs. Passive-aggresive would be playing deliberately dumb, or getting sarcastic, or otherwise resisting her demands without openly discussing your position.

I'll grab my notes from class tomorrow and post something more specific and potentially helpful. Right now, I need to round up the last part of my Halloween costume and then go get drunk at the GeekHaus party.

[Bakema NL]

Hahaha, it's recognizable. My wife does it too from time to time. Usually when she comes in from work, she immediately goes off like "what, you didn't vacuum" and more of that bollocks. Then I will stand in front of her and quietly say "Yes, a fine hello to you too dear"......she again goes off.......and I go again "hello to you too my darling, hello, hello, helloooo".................I can be way more annoying than her. When she greets me like I'm a normal person too then we can talk and screw all those stupid duties, do it the other day then, like yeah, very very important at that exact moment.
My wife works parttime, I work fulltime, so it's logical the household is a little more on her shoulders, but she can nag too.......every woman can and guys saying they don't get that just lie, or are extremely spooky as a couple.

And it's not that I can't nag, I do it too from time to time, especially when she's had more than enough time to do all kinds of things.......all in as much time as can be expected, divided equally in work hours, at home and at work together. I even think I nag more. A fun thing to do is showing her what can be done in a certain amount of hours. You go cleaning and doing stuff together and work hard, very systematically......it's amazing what you can achieve in those hours. And your wife will look at all that in utter amazement too. And then it's "See, you do it like that, everything done in these hours, so don't tell me you can't do that, because you can, just go at it, finish it as fast as possible, don't let up and do it systematically....and start right away."......pointing out stuff she has done just halfhearted is fun too..."you call that clean?" :D ................this pisses her off in my case, but she can't deny the results, so usually it's pissed off first and then she just laughs and calls me an asshole. Ha, I even made her a "what to do" list per day. And told her she always would have a clean house when she followed that list and if done good and efficiently she has a damn good amount of free time on her hands too. If she could make the same money as me, I would gladly become the "houseman", bust your chops in the morning and then you're done for the day..........aside from maybe kids, but hey, that's fun too, like making diner, fun too.
It's so stupid to argue about these kind of things.

[Dreadstar]

I'll grab my notes from class tomorrow and post something more specific and potentially helpful.
Not to be a dick or anything but:

Please don't.

Assertive is the way to go. It involves straight-forward discussion of what you want and what you need, as well as what the other person wants and needs. ..

Problem being, as I said, communication is a two-way street. You can be a straight-forward and assertive as you want to be, perfectly up-front and honest and caring about the person you're speaking with, and that person might think what you're saying is passive-agressive or even agressive. Two people don't always share the same perceptions of what's being said in a conversation. Hell, sometimes the individual he said/she said interpretations of what's been said bear no resemblance to the actual transcript.

[Shellhead]

Sure Morts has a hot wife. Sure she doesn't kill him when he invites a ton of people over for Shabbos, but not every spouse is exactly a peach to live with.

I have noticed that no matter what I do for my wife, she always finds something that she disapproves of. When this happens, she lets out what I have called, "The Sigh". The sigh is a sound that indicates profound disappointment and an indication of the misery she must endure.

I am no slouch around the house. I cook more often than not. I vacuum regularly. I help my son with his homework everynight and the rule around the kitchen is, "If my wife cooks, I do dishes...if I cook, I do dishes." Hell, I have a refrigerator magnet that says, "No woman ever shot a man while he was washing the dishes."

For that past five days, she has been out of town in Orlando for a Continuing Medical Education seminar. I have had the kids for the entire time. In addition to that I have been helping with the talent show for my son's school and been planning the fall festival for my daughter's school. This is of course while running a solo law practice.

My wife came home yesterday, the day of the talent show. She had to pick the kids up and get them to the school. She managed to do this and after the show I took her sister and nephew home so my wife could get my kids home and to bed. At 11:00 p.m., my wife woke me up, pissed that the pool was dirty and then started to go into a nag fest. "Why did you wait until today to wash the sheets? Why didn't you pick up my glass shelf from the glass store? What have you been doing for the past five days?"

Gee, I don't know...how about...everything?!?!?! Then I got, "The Sigh".

My wife and I have been drifting apart as of late and I find myself dreading her coming home. I have tried on occasion to do everything I can think of to make the house as beautiful as possible for her after she comes home from work. Each time, she managed to find reason to release, "The Sigh".

If it wasn't for my wonderful children, I would probably be pricing apartments.

Oh well, what can you do?

Time for an open discussion about work load with your wife. Schedule it in advance, because waking you up at night is a lousy way to start the discussion. The objective is to get a clear understanding of which of you will take responsibility for which routine tasks, what the relevant deadlines are, and when unusual problems come up, who will handle what kinds of issues. Work schedules need to factor into this, because if one of you works longer hours than the other, that's very relevant. Without an open discussion about this, it sounds like she will continue to have unrealistic expectations and despite your best efforts, you won't be able to make her happy.

[Shellhead]

Not to be a dick or anything but:

Please don't.



Problem being, as I said, communication is a two-way street. You can be a straight-forward and assertive as you want to be, perfectly up-front and honest and caring about the person you're speaking with, and that person might think what you're saying is passive-agressive or even agressive. Two people don't always share the same perceptions of what's being said in a conversation. Hell, sometimes the individual he said/she said interpretations of what's been said bear no resemblance to the actual transcript.

Bottom line is this, if you can communicate with her, you need to do so. If you can't, really and truly can't communicate with her, then the relationship needs to end, because you will never be happy together again. A marriage counselor might be able to get that communication started, but maybe not. While the married guys in my anger management class were able to improve their marriages from what they learned, the divorced guys were able to recognize why their marriages didn't and maybe couldn't work. One of the single guys dumped his girlfriend during the class because he realized that she wasn't willing to change even when he was.

[Ray R.]

Not to be a dick or anything but:

Please don't.

I second the motion.


Problem being, as I said, communication is a two-way street. You can be a straight-forward and assertive as you want to be, perfectly up-front and honest and caring about the person you're speaking with, and that person might think what you're saying is passive-agressive or even agressive. Two people don't always share the same perceptions of what's being said in a conversation. Hell, sometimes the individual he said/she said interpretations of what's been said bear no resemblance to the actual transcript.

I sometimes think my wife and I during a fight are having discussions with our counterparts in parallel universes. If you play the tape back, one set of words don't match up with the other set of words. It's existential ping-pong.....two completely different life perspectives getting whacked back and forth and never the twain shall meet.

Boy, I used to like make-up sex. Now it's just "bachelor chow" and a warm spot on the couch. I then get passive-aggressive with the remote.

[Ray R.]

Bottom line is this, if you can communicate with her, you need to do so. If you can't, really and truly can't communicate with her, then the relationship needs to end, because you will never be happy together again. A marriage counselor might be able to get that communication started, but maybe not. While the married guys in my anger management class were able to improve their marriages from what they learned, the divorced guys were able to recognize why their marriages didn't and maybe couldn't work. One of the single guys dumped his girlfriend during the class because he realized that she wasn't willing to change even when he was.

Shell - kids change EVERYTHING.

It's like playing chess against Grandpa to playing chess against Gary Kasparov. Things get ultra-complicated. And it gets down to bare essentials - you learn to coexist or you don't.

[Shellhead]

Shell - kids change EVERYTHING.

It's like playing chess against Grandpa to playing chess against Gary Kasparov. Things get ultra-complicated. And it gets down to bare essentials - you learn to coexist or you don't.

I'm not saying that it would be easy, just that the communication is essential. Eighteen years is a longgg time to live with somebody if you can't reasonably talk to her.

[Ray R.]

I'm not saying that it would be easy, just that the communication is essential. Eighteen years is a longgg time to live with somebody if you can't reasonably talk to her.

True enough. Although, I've been married eight years and seem to have worked wonders with "Uh-huh," "Right", "When do you need it by," "How much do I have to pay," and my daily morning fart. That's about 80% of my operating vocabulary right now, and I couldn't be happier.

[howyadoin]

I couldn't be happier.Kinda contradicts what you were saying earlier, Ray.

[i_mmmchocolate]

It's better to be pissed off than pissed on.

Now that's quotable.

[Paul McEnery]

waking you up at night is a lousy way to start the discussion.
I missed that bit.

The whole point of the waking you up at night thing is to avoid a real discussion, because you've been caught on the hop.

I remember one similar thing. We've been on-again, off-again, and it looks like we're back on. The tip off is the way we're both in bed naked. And we've just been at it. And she asks if, since we've been off, I've been seeing anyone, or might do so, or...

And the deal is, she's anxious that that might be the case, but by God she doesn't want to hear the answer.

So she doesn't care about the glass shelf, but she's got anxieties she needs to get off her chest anyway.

And making you sit up all night sweating it, and wondering what the hell that was about -- that fits the bill.

[Ray R.]

Kinda contradicts what you were saying earlier, Ray.

Well, it's not a contradiction per se, because I thought I made it clear that I'm resigned to this fate because the alternative is limited to not getting to see my kids.

To me, that's worse than divorce, so I'd rather co-exist and co-parent, and dive headlong into expensive and not-so-expensive hobbies so as to not drive myself bananas.

Would my life be better if the missus actually appreciated me? If my in-laws were out on the street? If I didn't have to bust my ass all the time? Absolutely.

But that ain't gonna happen, so I'm protecting and rewarding myself the way I think is appropriate, but still keeping my eye on the prize of giving my kids the best life I possibly can. So, life's not a bowl of cherries, marriage-wise. I'm resigned to that, so it doesn't bug me like it used to. I can't change my wife, and she won't change me. But we share two beautiful kids.

I think it was the immortal koop who said -- "A bad peace is better than a good war." Well, for the sake of my kids and my sanity, I'm smiling my way through a bad peace (although it goes without getting a piece...alas), with the help of some drugs, some booze, some comics, and some football.

Plus, there's always a "happy ending." Discounts on Thursdays.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Well, it's not a contradiction per se, because I thought I made it clear that I'm resigned to this fate because the alternative is limited to not getting to see my kids.

To me, that's worse than divorce, so I'd rather co-exist and co-parent, and dive headlong into expensive and not-so-expensive hobbies so as to not drive myself bananas.

Would my life be better if the missus actually appreciated me? If my in-laws were out on the street? If I didn't have to bust my ass all the time? Absolutely.

But that ain't gonna happen, so I'm protecting and rewarding myself the way I think is appropriate, but still keeping my eye on the prize of giving my kids the best life I possibly can. So, life's not a bowl of cherries, marriage-wise. I'm resigned to that, so it doesn't bug me like it used to. I can't change my wife, and she won't change me. But we share two beautiful kids.

I think it was the immortal koop who said -- "A bad peace is better than a good war." Well, for the sake of my kids and my sanity, I'm smiling my way through a bad peace (although it goes without getting a piece...alas), with the help of some drugs, some booze, some comics, and some football.

Plus, there's always a "happy ending." Discounts on Thursdays.


Ray, I admire the fact you're sticking with the wife for the sake of your kids, but here's food for thought. My parents did the same thing. They never fought in front of us, but as far back as I can remember, our house was tense and uncomfortable. I always sensed that my parents were on the verge of an argument that never quite happened.

Then, when I was in high school, things blew up. My dad cheated on my mom (with her best friend, as an added psychological torture), mom caught them and kicked dad out. They seperated for 6 months and promised divorce. My mom waffled, my dad wormed his way back in and they got back together for the sake of my brother and I.

Let me tell you, moving out at 17 was one of the happiest days of my life, as I didn't have to spend one more second inside that chamber of terse whispers and tension-filled dinners where no one spoke.

My parents, by the way, ended up getting divorced about 6 years later and now my mom laments the fact that she wasted so much time being unhappy, even though her motive (staying together for the sake of the kids) was noble.

Of course, everyone's situation is different, but just so you know, your kids (who are no doubt as sharp as you are) probably aren't as clueless as to what's truly going on as you might think.

(And, BTW, I suggest refraining from nailing your wife's best friend. That wasn't what you're supposed to take away from my little story, just so's you know.)

[JeffreyWKramer]

I stuck things out in my first marriage a lot longer than I should have, for fear of losing contact with my son. In retrospect, it would have been better on every level for me to have left earlier. Not saying what anyone else should do, Ray, but just letting you know, a person can be in the same place, make a different decision and have it be the right one.

I've never regretted finally leaving. Of course, being wonderfully happy in my second marriage probably helps there.

[Ray R.]

I stuck things out in my first marriage a lot longer than I should have, for fear of losing contact with my son. In retrospect, it would have been better on every level for me to have left earlier. Not saying what anyone else should do, Ray, but just letting you know, a person can be in the same place, make a different decision and have it be the right one.

I've never regretted finally leaving. Of course, being wonderfully happy in my second marriage probably helps there.

Good points by both you and Doc. My life is certainly not a model to follow, and me giving advice is probably best taken, as I said before, with a grain of salt.

But right now, I'm not unhappy per se. I wish things were better, and I continue to try to work to make things better, but all things being equal, I also think things could be a lot worse.

We're just different people, my wife and I. The fact that she's Russian adds a cultural twist as well. She couldn't tell the difference between Spiderman and Superman, a Raider or a Chief, a Playstation 2 or an X-Box. She just leaves me alone in that respect. Likewise, I bought her season tickets to the ballet, ice skating passes, and a year's worth of gymnastics for my daughter. I just paid an obscene amount of money for a piano. And I'm really interested in none of them, but they're worth it if my daughter gains from the experience. Again, co-existence, co-parenting, co-support. Appreciation - non-existent. Communication - minimal. Romance - minimal. Fighting and tension - minimal.

If I were divorced, I might be happier. Ten years down the road, I may have wished I went that route.

Or maybe not.

[cactusmaac]

But that ain't gonna happen, so I'm protecting and rewarding myself the way I think is appropriate, but still keeping my eye on the prize of giving my kids the best life I possibly can. So, life's not a bowl of cherries, marriage-wise. I'm resigned to that, so it doesn't bug me like it used to. I can't change my wife, and she won't change me. But we share two beautiful kids.


That is impressively selfless behaviour.

Boldido:

Has your wife always been like this or is this a new thing?

Before talking to her, you might want to try writing out a letter to her about the aspects of her behaviour which have been bothering you.

It'll help to organise your thoughts and avoid getting emotional once you actually DO talk to her.

It's possible she might not even realise there is a problem.

For all their supposed empathy, women can be pretty oblivious when it comes to realising how their behaviour affects those around them.

[howyadoin]

For all their supposed empathy, women can be pretty oblivious when it comes to realising how their behaviour affects those around them.A-fucking-men.

[BlairH]

That is impressively selfless behaviour.

Boldido:

Has your wife always been like this or is this a new thing?

Before talking to her, you might want to try writing out a letter to her about the aspects of her behaviour which have been bothering you.

It'll help to organise your thoughts and avoid getting emotional once you actually DO talk to her.

It's possible she might not even realise there is a problem.

For all their supposed empathy, women can be pretty oblivious when it comes to realising how their behaviour affects those around them.

And THAT kind of advice is precisely why I voted you COTM.
Good stuff.

[Sir Tim Drake]

For some reason, I think the first homo sapiens hunter-gatherer, after spending days successfully hunting, stalking and killing an antelope or gnu or some other herbivore, when he got back to the cave, exhausted, bloody, and soiled, with fresh meat to grill for the family, he heard this:

"You're gone for that long, and this is all you have to show for it? This gamey carcass? Lazy bastard. And you could have sent a smoke signal to let me know you were okay. It's called common decency"


And so it goes.....

That reminds me of some of the nagging that Anthro's father received from his mother-in-law.

On a more serious note, Roger, you have my sympathy. I can't offer you any advice, other than the obvious suggestion that you should go for some kind of counseling, but I hope your marriage improves somehow.

[Slappy san]

Your wife? I'd say at least two great benefit packages!

Errr...what are those?

[Slappy san]

There were several married guys in my anger management class. They became happier about their marriages when they learned to communicate better. Talking openly and constructively with the wife about a problem is almost always going to be more effective than silently resenting the status quo. Try to use "I" statements instead of "you" statements, to avoid an accusatory and confrontational tone, and avoid absolute statements. For example, "You are always yelling at me" is a confrontational statement and probably an exaggeration, while "I feel sad when you yell at me" is a better opening.

OMG....that is....fucking lame. Did a (nagging) woman come up with that?

[Solaris]

I agree with many of the others---go for counseling. You two have gotten into a rut, and left untended, will just run it deeper. Sometimes you really need a third party, uninvolved and trained, who can help each of you to *hear* what the other is really saying, and to help each of you realize the core of what's gotten each of you upset at the other. Sometimes it *is* a lot of surface issues... but sometimes those mask something deeper---often things we've given up communicating on, because the other person never seemed to be *listening.*

Counselors can also help identify bad habits of thought and speech, including negativity and blaming. Those things become habits and ruts, too.

Anyway, I wish you the best, and heartily back up Jeffrey's advice that it's better to hit this early, than wait until it becomes so ingrained that it's practically an unsolvable problem.

[Slappy san]

Don't stay together for the kids. They know!

I feel your pain on the kids. I'm moving away from my 15 month old son this weekend. It's killing me but it's absolutely necessary.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Errr...what are those?

You've obviously never seen a pic of H Jay's wife.

[Jeff Brady]

Errr...what are those?

She's got huge...tracts of land.

[JeffreyWKramer]

She's got huge...tracts of land.

And those tracts of land are quite well-developed.

[zilch]

If you do go in for couple counselling, present it a way to her that it isnt her fault, but something that will make you a better husband. That way, she won't go in on the defensive.

Been with the same woman for 23 years. I could tell you stories but the first 7 years were the worst. we went through one year where we didn't have sex but five times.

And pick your battles. You can't fight every war. Germany couldn't win a two front war. And we exist on many "fronts'.

[cable guy]

Don't stay together for the kids. They know!

I feel your pain on the kids. I'm moving away from my 15 month old son this weekend. It's killing me but it's absolutely necessary.

Sorry to hear that.

I couldn't imagine doing this though.

I always thought staying together for the kids, was a good thing.

[Slappy san]

You've obviously never seen a pic of H Jay's wife.

nope :(

....and she better be worth all this waiting :)

[Slappy san]

Sorry to hear that.

I couldn't imagine doing this though.

I always thought staying together for the kids, was a good thing.

Not when you ex-gf seems to try and provoke you into hitting her. Im passive as hell so....yeah....time to go.

[StoneGold]

And, hey, if the therapy doesn't work...

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/ojsimpson.jpg

[howyadoin]

OMG....that is....fucking lame. Did a (nagging) woman come up with that?Heh heh heh.

[Spike-X]

Sorry to hear that.

I couldn't imagine doing this though.

I always thought staying together for the kids, was a good thing.
So did I.

Until I got taken away in the back of a police van.

[west3man]

There were several married guys in my anger management class. They became happier about their marriages when they learned to communicate better. Talking openly and constructively with the wife about a problem is almost always going to be more effective than silently resenting the status quo. Try to use "I" statements instead of "you" statements, to avoid an accusatory and confrontational tone, and avoid absolute statements. For example, "You are always yelling at me" is a confrontational statement and probably an exaggeration, while "I feel sad when you yell at me" is a better opening.
This is real.
When it really comes down to it, saying "you need to," and the like can make someone feel that they're under attack - even thick-skinned, supposedly impervious badass spouses and significant others.

Communication is a two-way street, but that doesn't mean you should drive down the wrong side of yours. You do what you can. Make yourself clear. Make reasonable* (but not ridiculous) efforts to choose your words carefully, then go for it.

People frequently knock this kinda thing - in many cases because they just don't get it and don't care to. Some don't need it. Some do and don't know it so they end up unable to relate to certain people in their lives. If that's how the spouse or s.o. is, that's on that person. Again, you do what you can and leave it at that.



As far as staying for the kids, I'd see continued access to my kids as a great thing, too... maybe even enough to consider staying within a relationship I don't wanna be in. However, I'd be concerned that the positives of my decision (and vice-versa) might be trumped by the difficulties they'd experience by learning about relationship dynamics from the example of a couple who doesn't want to be together.




* - maybe even reconsidering what qualifies as "reasonable"

[Tom]

I had parents who fought tooth and nail for ...well, they're still doing it. By the time I was eight I figured out that they didn't love each other and by the time I was 12, I figured out they hated each other.

I'm one of six kids and every single one of us, with the benefit of adulthood and hindsight, have said privately to one another that we would have preferred it if they'd just gotten a divorce because growing up in that angry, tense, unhappy home was no picnic.

[Awesome Rita]

Instead of calling him a TURDFACE for his dumb sarcastic jokes, I will use this as an opportunity to be a better wife.

I am so in love with my husband, and I've never been happier. I love being married to such an awesome human being, and the best husband ever. I know he's happy, but I think marriage may be a tiny bit more difficult for him. I think it's because I demand so much of him, and he demands nothing of me. I wish I could stop, but it would be impossible for me to live in a messy home and keep my sanity, and impossible for me to not want to spend money on pretty stuff. So, if anyone has any suggestions on how I can keep my husband from someday hating me, and also get to live in a clean home and own stuff, I would really appreciate it.

And no, I will not let him put his finger in my belly button.

[Jeff Brady]

Take him out to dinner. Give him a "get out of chore free" card once or twice a month. Make out like horny teenagers.

Tell him that you know it's hard for him, say "thank you" and "I love you."

[Awesome Rita]

Take him out to dinner. Give him a "get out of chore free" card once or twice a month. Make out like horny teenagers.

Tell him that you know it's hard for him, say "thank you" and "I love you."Sometimes I "forget" to take out dinner, and he'll have to buy dinner. Does that count?

I made him some "No Wife" coupons two Valentine's ago, but they've expired. I think this "get out of chore free card" is a nice thought, but being married to crazy depressed bipolar danger girl may be more difficult than doing the dishes and picking up your socks. Being in a messy home gives me a messy head.

We made a promise to never stop the kissing, and we do the sex a lot. I've heard this whole sexual peak thing will last until my 50's, but I think this scares him more than comforts him.

He says I love you and thank you a whole lot. I say I love you a whole lot, but I can't remember if I say thank you enough so...


Dear Sweet Pants,

Thank you for doing the dishes almost every night.
Thank you for making the bed almost every morning.
Thank you for cleaning the guest bathroom almost as much as I clean the master bathroom.
Thank you for all that other stuff too.

Love,

Wife The Bad

[Magneto_X]

Sometimes I "forget" to take out dinner, and he'll have to buy dinner. Does that count?

I made him some "No Wife" coupons two Valentine's ago, but they've expired. I think this "get out of chore free card" is a nice thought, but being married to crazy depressed bipolar danger girl may be more difficult than doing the dishes and picking up your socks. Being in a messy home gives me a messy head.

We made a promise to never stop the kissing, and we do the sex a lot. I've heard this whole sexual peak thing will last until my 50's, but I think this scares him more than comforts him.

He says I love you and thank you a whole lot. I say I love you a whole lot, but I can't remember if I say thank you enough so...


Dear Sweet Pants,

Thank you for doing the dishes almost every night.
Thank you for making the bed almost every morning.
Thank you for cleaning the guest bathroom almost as much as I clean the master bathroom.
Thank you for all that other stuff too.

Love,

Wife The Bad


Bipolar Danger Girl, is that you?

[Doug Strange]

Bipolar Danger Girl, is that you?Yes, god damn it, that's my wife.

And I couldn't be more in love with her right now.

[Awesome Rita]

Bipolar Danger Girl, is that you?That depends. If you are my old CBR chat friend Mags, then yes, it is I! If I owe you money, or if you like to spank goats, then I don't know who you're talking about, you goat spanking weirdo.

[Paul McEnery]

This is real.
When it really comes down to it, saying "you need to," and the like can make someone feel that they're under attack - even thick-skinned, supposedly impervious badass spouses and significant others.[/SIZE]
Yeah, I never let a single "you need to" pass. For a start, it's a very recent illiteracy.

For a start, what it really means is "I need you to...", while shifting the onus onto the other person. So it's passive-aggressive bullshit.

[howyadoin]

Thank you for making the bed almost every morning.People still make the bed?




Seriously?

[west3man]

Yeah, I never let a single "you need to" pass. For a start, it's a very recent illiteracy.

For a start, what it really means is "I need you to...", while shifting the onus onto the other person. So it's passive-aggressive bullshit.
Yep. A lot of the other stuff matters. No doubt. But how we speak to each other matters, too.

[Awesome Rita]

Yes, god damn it, that's my wife.

And I couldn't be more in love with her right now.Oh...alright. You can put your finger in my button, but just this once.

[HomerJay]

nope :(
....and she better be worth all this waiting :)
Here's a dark pic, but not too dark to still see her...ahem...shape. She probably wouldn't be happy with me posting it (as you can see she already looks annoyed in the pic) for my "geek friends" to ogle, but anyway...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/HomerJay64/DSC01415.jpg

As you can see, I don't only "talk the talk" when it comes to being a breastman.

[Dreadstar]

Jeez, Power Girl ala Balent!

And she's cute, too, lucky guy.

[west3man]

Jeez, Power Girl ala Balent!

And she's cute, too, lucky guy.
*leeches onto Dread's comment*

All I can add is wow... and that you'd better hope she doesn't see this! lol

[HomerJay]

All I can add is wow... and that you'd better hope she doesn't see this! lol

She doesn't read these boards and as far as I know, doesn't Google my usernames (*coughmortscough*).

[Ray R.]

She doesn't read these boards and as far as I know, doesn't Google my usernames (*coughmortscough*).

I was just starting to like you.... you lucky sumbitch......


I think a reserved golf clap is appropriate in this instance, in lieu of extended ogling.....

[imports Sega Genesis golf clap .wav]

[Shellhead]

HomerJay, I dated a large-breasted woman for two years, so I learned that those kind of women tend to have back problems. Learn to give a good back massage, and you will have one happy woman.

[HomerJay]

Learn to give a good back massage, and you will have one happy woman.

We already own a $250 back massager, and I've been told (from the quality of my back rubs) that if my current career goes south I could always make it as a massage therapist or chiropractor.

[Hoss]

Hi Bo,
My wife and I went through a rough spot after our second child was born last year. She was going through a bit of depression and I was working on my MBA. We worked it out but things continued to be rough on and on for a whole. I've recently put my MBA studies on permanent hold.

My wife is a stay at home so her daily schedule is busy but focused around the house/kids and getting those things done that alot of other folks have to do after hours. I'm usually home by 5 everyday, I play Star Wars with my son for a while then we eat a home cooked every night as a family. By eight - everything is done and I'm reading to my son in bed. After that, the wife and I plop down together for an hour or tow. Except for Friday night volleyball most of our activities are church related or family/friends with kids related. We go on the occassional date. I've got my comics and Volleyball she does cross stich and jogs/runs races.

What worked for us was having strong but very limited separate spheres and then focusing the majority of our attention on family/marriage related things. I wouldn't say we are less busy now than when I was trying to go to school at night but we are busy in a much more unified and less stressful manner. For us, it has made all the difference.

I'm not sure if my insights can help. But you describe two people that are very busy on family and work but are doing it apart from each other and are working hard just to keep up. I've known situations that haven't worked not because people weren't trying or doing the "right" things but because they were frying themselves trying to do everything that was required of them. I don't know, I've only been married 5 years so what do I know.

[HomerJay]

Jeez, Power Girl ala Balent!

Now THERE'S a Halloween costume idea for next year!
(she's 5 months pregnant at the moment)

[K'Nort]

Now THERE'S a Halloween costume idea for next year!
(she's 5 months pregnant at the moment)

So make it Zero Hour Power Girl.

[HomerJay]

We actually had plans to go as Britney Spears and Kevin Federline to a party on saturday, but she got sick so it didn't happen.

[Michael P]

Damn. Them things are NBA regulation size.

(That's right, ladies, he's single!)

[Tom]

"Man, she's going to have some back problems. She should look into reduction surgery," he said homosexually.

[Michael P]

Wow. Our very own Tom Swiftie.

[HomerJay]

"Man, she's going to have some back problems. She should look into reduction surgery," he said homosexually.

Dems is fightin words.




Homo.

[Gaz]

"Man, she's going to have some back problems. She should look into reduction surgery," he said homosexually.
Yup *nods*, I'm not even that into breasts, but that was NOT the first thing I thought.

[Spike-X]

Here's a dark pic, but not too dark to still see her...ahem...shape. She probably wouldn't be happy with me posting it (as you can see she already looks annoyed in the pic) for my "geek friends" to ogle, but anyway...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/HomerJay64/DSC01415.jpg

As you can see, I don't only "talk the talk" when it comes to being a breastman.
Ooh, lordy...

[HomerJay]

Ooh, lordy...
Is that good or bad?

[Spike-X]

Don't worry, it's definitely a compliment.

[Tadhg Adams]

Wait? Does it make me homosexual that I had the same thought as Tom at first?

[K'Nort]

Wait? Does it make me homosexual that I had the same thought as Tom at first?

It probably just makes you married.

[Spike-X]

Wait? Does it make me homosexual that I had the same thought as Tom at first?
Not when you consider to whom you're married.

[Vesper]

My parents had a marriage like several of the ones described (thankfully, they finally divorced when I was 8, although after that they moved 3000 miles apart, which was rotten in its own way)...and my mother constantly wonders why I'm still single at the age of 24.

I want kids eventually, but I'm not going through an obligatory, potentially hellish marriage for it. :rolleyes:

[Tadhg Adams]

I want kids eventually, but I'm not going through an obligatory, potentially hellish marriage for it. :rolleyes:

I went for the non-hellish marriage and I would definetly recommend it over the hellish variety.

[DarkBlade]

I went for the non-hellish marriage and I would definetly recommend it over the hellish variety.
Awww ^_^

~DB

[HomerJay]

"Man, she's going to have some back problems. She should look into reduction surgery," he said homosexually.

Inspired by the thread over in YABS, you are now officially my nemesis.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Ooh, lordy...

Yep, those are about enough to inspire religious awe.

[Tom]

Inspired by the thread over in YABS, you are now officially my nemesis.
The line forms on the right.

[Lone Ranger]

Shell - kids change EVERYTHING.



This is an issue my wife and I discuss in very whispered tones.

We know that it will happen, but we are in denial. We are about a month away from a serious paradigm shift in our household. Hell, things have already changed quite a bit - dealing with a pregant woman is very different than a non-pregnant woman, and I think Kat is doing better than many Moms-to-be out there. We certainly have our moments these days.

Expectations have a way of changing in very subtle ways - and it's not always easy to have a open conversation about them. I do a lot more of the heavy lifting now (both figuratively and literally) and I can understand that as I am not going through the physical and emotional changes that Kat has been experiencing. That being said, I like my extra effort to be appreciated rather than expected.

In terms of overall communication - we do ok, but sometimes it's tough to talk about the bad stuff. I know that when I am upset about something, I can't articulate exactly what is bothering me - I just know that I am upset. I tend to blame everything and everyone for my upset rather than pinpointing the actual cause. That's not the healthiest bahaviour - but I seem stuck with it. Recently, I have tried to remove myself from a situation so that I can relax and slowly figure out what's causing the problem. That seems to work, but I have to tell Kat that it's the best way I can think of in terms of heading a big fight off at the pass.

I need a lot of 'alone time' and that has become a very scarce commodity. Kat also claims to need 'alone time', but I don't see it - she tends to talk to me about everything she's reading in the newspaper or magazine to the point where I end up putting my part of the paper down. The world of comic books have been a very good outlet - providing much needed escapism. The problem in relationships is that when your significant other is aware of your 'escape outlets' and uses it against you from time to time. Sometimes people don't like being escaped from.

I do find that, if we have a really good chat and she realizes that I am at my wit's end with work etc..., she sees that allowing me my escapes creates a much happier husband.

Marriage does require work and I imagine that work with increase tenfold with our baby. They upside is still very high, though - so it makes every little spat worthwhile. If the good times start to disappear, I may find myself in the same boat as some of you guys.

[Paul McEnery]

The line forms on the right.
Is that because you hang to the left?

[west3man]

Is that because you hang to the left?
According to the extension cord pic... Nevermind.

[Typo Lad]

Okay, time to chime in.

Don't know how I missed this, but I did. Sorry Boldido old chum.

Let me begin by saying how freaking scary it is to have my marriage held up as an example. I mean pee yourself scary.

Why?

Because as much as I post about all the amazing, wonderful moments in my marriage, there are also sometimes bad, horrible moments in it. The thing is, the good outweighs the bad by the longshot. And it's not just her, it's me too. First step in being a good partner is the realization of your own flaws as well. Took a while, but I think I know them now. Don't have them all "handled" but that's the next step.

But back to you.

First let me echo what Michael first said - you need to get couples therapy. Not "maybe you should" - you have to. It's that simple.

Why?

You and the wife have stopped relating to each other as husband/wife it seems. Instead, you're roommates/babysitters. That leads to madness.

One thing I might suggest... it sounds like you're under communicating. She came home, exhausted, thinking only of her own exhaustion. She did not communicate that fact, and instead let it come out as exasperation. This is wrong. However, at the same time, did you communicate to her just how much you did while she was gone? Was the data out there for her to appreciate?

One thing Suzannah and I did, just as an experiment, was right down each of our daily schedules. We then shared them with each other. This way we know exactly what each of us is facing that day.

For example, today Suzannah has a Dr.'s appointment followed by dinner with an old friend. I've had a sick Tot all day, but have also gotten the old car cleaned out and have done the laundry. Once it gets put away, that's it for me today. She knows that. Our hope is to make time for TV or a movie tonight once Tot is in bed. Doubtful, but we hope.

Actually... our problem is the opposite. We communicate a bit too much.

Anyway, you know how to reach me if you want to talk.

[YoursTruly]

Honesty is always the best policy. If your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend is doing something you don't like, tell her/him. Tell them how it makes you feel. This is the person you've promised to (or may) spend the rest of your life with. You should be closer to eachother than anyone else on the planet. If you've entered into a relationship without truely knowing your significant other and have found that they're not the person they pretended to be, I'd let them go. (children make relationship decisions very akward and difficult) It's better to be free to find the right kind of person than to be miserable with the wrong one. It's also better for your children to see the two of you happy and apart than to see te two of you together and fighting constantly. I think your kids would be better off learning that men and women seperate or divorce than learning that the only means of resolving indifference is to yell and fight. Just my experienced opinion...

[HomerJay]

Things are so much easier when at least one of you doesn't hold grudges.

Last night, my wife was stressed out and experiencing a Ted Knight-caliber slow burn while my daughter was refusing to eat dinner. She finally blew up and had a mini-fit while I calmly told her to "settle down". She complained about how she didn't get as much done that day as she wanted and how our daughter kept freaking out which prompted the calm response from me: "Like you are now?" Needless to say, she went nuclear and stormed down to the basement and on the way I calmly reminded her to not to "forget to slam the door".

Well 60 minutes later she acted as if nothing had happened, and we even "made up" before going to bed. She has a hot temper, but not a sustained one.

[howyadoin]

Things are so much easier when at least one of you doesn't hold grudges.

Last night, my wife was stressed out and experiencing a Ted Knight-caliber slow burn while my daughter was refusing to eat dinner. She finally blew up and had a mini-fit while I calmly told her to "settle down". She complained about how she didn't get as much done that day as she wanted and how our daughter kept freaking out which prompted the calm response from me: "Like you are now?" Needless to say, she went nuclear and stormed down to the basement and on the way I calmly reminded her to not to "forget to slam the door".

Well 60 minutes later she acted as if nothing had happened, and we even "made up" before going to bed. She has a hot temper, but not a sustained one.Y'know, it's great that you can brush that stuff off, but how's your daughter handling it?

[Typo Lad]

I know what you mean Homer. One time Suzannah and I were in a knock down, drag out fight. I stood up, said "I don't want to do this," grabbed my keys and went for a walk. When I got back we were both calm enough to apologize for our portions in it and we went on to have an awesome weekend.

[HomerJay]

Y'know, it's great that you can brush that stuff off, but how's your daughter handling it?

Well, as I said, my wife has a VERY short temper. As you might guess by my story, I try to be the sober "yin" to her raging "yang" so my daughter witnesses that blowing your top and losing your shit isn't the only (or even acceptable) way to deal with stress.

[K'Nort]

Honesty is always the best policy. If your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend is doing something you don't like, tell her/him. Tell them how it makes you feel. This is the person you've promised to (or may) spend the rest of your life with. You should be closer to eachother than anyone else on the planet. If you've entered into a relationship without truely knowing your significant other and have found that they're not the person they pretended to be, I'd let them go. (children make relationship decisions very akward and difficult) It's better to be free to find the right kind of person than to be miserable with the wrong one. It's also better for your children to see the two of you happy and apart than to see te two of you together and fighting constantly. I think your kids would be better off learning that men and women seperate or divorce than learning that the only means of resolving indifference is to yell and fight. Just my experienced opinion...

That seems to imply that when you're with the 'right' person, you never ever fight or disagree. Not to mention that there is somehow a way to know everything about another person in advance of marrying them, when that would mean waiting until you're each about 80 to even come close. The fact it takes work doesn't mean it's the wrong choice.

[YoursTruly]

That seems to imply that when you're with the 'right' person, you never ever fight or disagree. Not to mention that there is somehow a way to know everything about another person in advance of marrying them, when that would mean waiting until you're each about 80 to even come close. The fact it takes work doesn't mean it's the wrong choice.

I can see where you'd come to that conclusion by my post. that's not what I intended to say though. Take for example: you want kids, they don't. that's an important thing to do without if you want kids. Some people have personalities and future goals that clash with others. Some of those can't be resolved. Like, if your significant other wants to live at home with their family forever and you want a home of your own. Some people like the idea of being one big, happy living together family. Others like being the man or woman of their own house. Every couple is going to argue. It's kinda like having an adopted sibling... you argue but the thought of leaving never comes up and you always love eachother through your disagreements. That's what I mean by being with the right KIND of person. If you love your partner and they don't love you and you're only together because you have kids that's worse than a divorce.

[K'Nort]

Things are so much easier when at least one of you doesn't hold grudges.

Last night, my wife was stressed out and experiencing a Ted Knight-caliber slow burn while my daughter was refusing to eat dinner. She finally blew up and had a mini-fit while I calmly told her to "settle down". She complained about how she didn't get as much done that day as she wanted and how our daughter kept freaking out which prompted the calm response from me: "Like you are now?" Needless to say, she went nuclear and stormed down to the basement and on the way I calmly reminded her to not to "forget to slam the door".

Well 60 minutes later she acted as if nothing had happened, and we even "made up" before going to bed. She has a hot temper, but not a sustained one.

Things are much easier if one person doesn't hold grudges AND the other person can accept that. She's very lucky that you can work with that. Not everyone can. I also go nuclear. But then it's truly out of my system. Done. But that does NOT mean it is now safe to talk about it. I got rid of it; I didn't deal with it. Rehashing whatever it was means getting me pissed off all over again. But even a lot of men want to have dialogues and reach understanding and closure and such. And they certainly don't understand a woman, of all people, not wanting to do the same.

I read a study a few years ago that said that a super important factor in whether a marriage/relationship works is not how often or how fiercely a couple fights so much as whether they each have the same style of fighting. There were probably four to six different styles. As long as you're both screamers or both sulkers or whatever, no problem. It's when the methods clash that things can't ever get resolved.

[HomerJay]

Things are much easier if one person doesn't hold grudges AND the other person can accept that.
I've taken to just letting her go and burn it off, because I know that a short time later she'll be back to normal.

[Mike Pothier]

I know what you mean Homer. One time Suzannah and I were in a knock down, drag out fight. I stood up, said "I don't want to do this," grabbed my keys and went for a walk. When I got back we were both calm enough to apologize for our portions in it and we went on to have an awesome weekend.

Honestly, I find that this is the best thing to do at times. When Melina and I get in our little confrontations, we both have a tendency to want the final word, which is usually like throwing gasoline on the fire. So we just seperate and do our own thing for a little while, and usually we'll have calmed down enough to converse like two civilized people.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Honestly, I find that this is the best thing to do at times. When Melina and I get in our little confrontations, we both have a tendency to want the final word, which is usually like throwing gasoline on the fire. So we just seperate and do our own thing for a little while, and usually we'll have calmed down enough to converse like two civilized people.

When tempers flare, taking a break to calm down is a very, very good idea, because talking further usually just means escalating conflict. Make sure to use the break to calm down, though - don't obsess over the fight, or what you're going to say when you get back to the discussion - don't treat this time as the break between rounds of a boxing match. Get your mind on something calming, get to a neutral or positive mood.

It's often a good idea to set at least a general time to get back together and discuss the issue, though, or else things end up never getting resolved.

[howyadoin]

I also go nuclear. But then it's truly out of my system. Done. But that does NOT mean it is now safe to talk about it. I got rid of it; I didn't deal with it. Rehashing whatever it was means getting me pissed off all over again.If you didn't deal with it, how is it out of your system?

[K'Nort]

If you didn't deal with it, how is it out of your system?

It's like purging vs digesting.

[Michael P]

You do know that only one of those is healthy, right K?

[Shellhead]

You do know that only one of those is healthy, right K?

Yeah, this is an interesting analogy. Bulimics tend to have bad teeth, because stomach acids destroy the enamel. And getting extremely angry about something without ever solving the underlying problem will gradually destroy all communication with those who have witnessed your rage.

[howyadoin]

And getting extremely angry about something without ever solving the underlying problem will gradually destroy all communication with those who have witnessed your rage.Well put, Shell.

[Shellhead]

Well put, Shell.

Thanks. I wish I could brag about how wise I am, but I had to learn this the hard way, and still didn't put the puzzle pieces together until I took an anger management class last year.

[Spike-X]

When tempers flare, taking a break to calm down is a very, very good idea, because talking further usually just means escalating conflict.

Yes, it is.

It's sometimes hard to walk away from somebody, though, when they insist on following you from room to room, and even out of the house.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Yes, it is.

It's sometimes hard to walk away from somebody, though, when they insist on following you from room to room, and even out of the house.

That's why it's good to throw caltrops or bear traps behind you as you make your exit. ;)

[OzBat!]

Okay. I've been married 15 years now; got an almost 13 year old daughter going on 16, and a 9 year old son. The first three years were great. We were young, having fun and in love. Then we decided to start a family, and everything went south very, very quickly.

Long story short, my spouse developed post-natal depression, bad, after the birth of our first. She was going to be an only child for the longest time. We had verbal knock-down drag-out fights that lasted days: I literally couldn't look her in the eyes for weeks on end without her reviving some argument or other. It was always accusations and hostility and frustration too. At one point she was hospitalised for a week as her depression took a scary turn.

But eventually, we got through it. To the point where we decided to have the second child. Take 2!! Same problems all over again: spouse's body chemistry seriously out of whack, behavioural issues and problems fueling the fire, and seriously bad communications skills on both our parts didn't help one iota.

I'm no angel: I know I contributed a massive amount to the problem. My behaviours triggered her responses and awayyyyy we'd go on the anger merry-go-round again and again and again. But it got to the point where my four year old daughter would scream and hide in her room and then hide in my arms and hold me tight for an hour or more.

I debated leaving many times. If I went, I'd be taking the kids with me. But if I did so, the chances of that scary turn returning were too great. I stuck it out, for both her sake and for the kids.

And while I recognise that in many, many cases the kids wished in later life that their disfunctional parents didn't do that, I think we managed to turn this one around.

When my spouse got diagnosed with high blood pressure and went on appropriate medication, she was able to calm down enough to start looking at herself and the way she dealt with things. She got involved with school committees and other things that helped her get out of the house. Her parents moved back into town nearby, and she got to spend a lot of time with her mother, who'd she'd missed terribly during the pregnancies and infant-rearing. I started spending more time doing things around the house. We started talking more, and instead of her laying down the law and me ignoring her, we tried negotiating outcomes.

I'm not saying everything is rosy again yet either. We're not perfect, but we're a damn sight better than we were five, ten years ago. She started working nights a year ago, and then 3 months ago won a full time job at K-Mart - the first job she's had in 13 years. That's improved the self esteem immeasurably. Plus, with her out of the house that much more, I get the kids ready for school and drop them off, and there's far less opportunity for her and my daughter to get into screaming matches (they're far too much alike in temperament, unfortunately). I had to give up a lot of things that really mattered to me, such as being on the worship team at church. I was there for ten years, a worship leader for five of those. But in the end the fallout from my marriage was definitely poisoning my spiritual relationship and friendships with others, and it was showing. You can't lead when you're damaged goods, it smells of hypocracy and phonyness.

Most of our old friends are long gone, so we're feeling very isolated right now. That's another downside of the dark years. While she's losing weight and feeling better about herself, my health is shot and I'm larger now than I've ever been... just shy of 100kg. But with things genuinely improving on the home front, I can loosen up a bit and try to fix that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, sometimes "staying together for the kids" IS the right choice. But you've gotta be determined to actually work at restoring the relationship, not just enduring it - if you're doing it for the sake of having everybody under the same roof and pretending to your friends and neighbours that all is right with the world, you're going to end up with damaged goods for kids and merely delay the inevitable bust up later on down the track.

And it's damn, damn hard work. Some days, some weeks, are better than others. But we're getting there.

[Typo Lad]

OzBat,

If I clap, will you think I'm being condescending? 'cause I'm not.

[OzBat!]

You know I wouldn't. I just don't think it's deserved. Not yet; we're not all the way home yet.

But we're getting there. The light at the end of the tunnel, for once, is not an oncoming train!

[Typo Lad]

But the important thing is that you're on the right track. Instead of trying to assign blame (which I'm sure is a stated you guys hit at one point), you have shifted your focus to repair of the actual issues causing the tension.

That's the most important thing.

I always tell newlyweds:

"Remember, if you get in a fight - you're wrong. No, your spouse isn't right. They're wrong too. You're both wrong. If you start out knowing your each wrong, then you'll work harder together to find the right answer."

[OzBat!]

Great point. But seriously, at many times I feel just a tiny bit like I've got survivor's guilt or something. So many other marriages fall apart all around us, and there's nothing special about what we did. For a lot of years, it was simply that we didn't do anything to wrap up the relationship and kiss it goodbye. Too darn stubborn to give each other the satisfaction? Dunno! But when the clouds parted a tiny fraction and we could both take a breath and just talk, it started clearing up just that tiny bit faster, and the revival developed a momentum of its own.

We blamed each other plenty during the dark years. And while we could grudgingly admit that we ourselves were also in the wrong, I think there was a bit of a standoff, with no guarantee that if one made any changes, that the other would follow suit. I wish somebody had hammered your message into our skulls 12 years ago.

[Typo Lad]

I wish somebody had hammered your message into our skulls 12 years ago.

I wish someone had with me 3 years ago.

Seriously, I didn't magically arrive at that idea.

[OzBat!]

Maybe when we all get brain-chipped, that can be one of the hardcoded instructions!

Right up there with "Women are crazy; deal with it."

[Lone Ranger]

We blamed each other plenty during the dark years. And while we could grudgingly admit that we ourselves were also in the wrong

That's the trap most people (myself included) fall into.

When there is someone in your life everyday and see everything - they are the natural (but rarely correct) person to blame for everything to go wrong as they are the common denominator.

I hated my previous job - came home ever night with my back in a knot and Kat took the brunt of my misery. Of course, I usually end up dealing with all of the shit in her life caused by others. We tended to blame each other for the weirdest things, like "If you hadn't asked me to put that dish in the dishwasher, I would have been able to get to the bank before it closed!" Only a married couple is capable of that kind of logic.

Anyway, the clouds part for us when we realize and acknowledge to the other that it is an outside factor that is making us upset.

I really appreciate all of the efforts people have made with this thread - sharing war stories and techniques is important as we all want our marriaged to work, and it's nice to know that we are not the only ones to have bad days (or weeks, or months etc...)

I have a friend who recently broke off an engagement and Kat and I had a long talk about the trials and tribulations of relationship - that they take work, that fights happen etc... He was shock, and I mean 'jaw on the floor' shocked that couples fought and weren't always happy. This was mainly due to the fact that he only saw the 'public face' of people's relationship, and thought everyone must get along swimmingly 24/7. He never realized what was going on behind closed doors. I felt really sorry that a 32 year old man was now just realizing that most fairy tales features a few dark clouds at some point in the story.

[Typo Lad]

Maybe when we all get brain-chipped, that can be one of the hardcoded instructions!

Next to "Put the seat down, it's just not worth the drama."

Right up there with "Women are crazy; deal with it."

And women can be hardwired with "Men don't listen, deal with it."

Sometimes I sort of buy into Feminist Literary Criticism, which states that men and women have fundamentally different thought processes.

[DarkBlade]

I have a friend who recently broke off an engagement and Kat and I had a long talk about the trials and tribulations of relationship - that they take work, that fights happen etc... He was shock, and I mean 'jaw on the floor' shocked that couples fought and weren't always happy. This was mainly due to the fact that he only saw the 'public face' of people's relationship, and thought everyone must get along swimmingly 24/7. He never realized what was going on behind closed doors. I felt really sorry that a 32 year old man was now just realizing that most fairy tales features a few dark clouds at some point in the story.

*stares*

Did he grow up in a single parent home with a parent that never dated, or something similar?

[JeffreyWKramer]

*stares*

Did he grow up in a single parent home with a parent that never dated, or something similar?

Maybe his last name was Cleaver?

[Michael P]

Well, my parents were always very careful never to fight around us, so I mostly took my evidence that couples fought from my friends' parents and the TV. But even then, I still knew families scrapped, just from the arguments I had with my brother.

[Lone Ranger]

*stares*

Did he grow up in a single parent home with a parent that never dated, or something similar?

Nope - his Dad dies when he was in his mid-20s, but his parents were together (but I don't know much about the quality of their relationship).

He is a single child who never really had a serious relationship. He tends to put other people's relationships up on a pedestal, and I guess none of his friends speak honestly about their relationships.

I just think he's going through his first big break-up. Sometimes, it's good to have your heart broken once or twice so that you get a feel for the roller coaster ride before you walk down the aisle. It also helps you get a sense that things take work and communication.

[Typo Lad]

Suzannah and I had a fun "put on a pedistal experiance".

We went to a friend's "moving out of NY party". It was basically the first tiem since Tot being born that we were going to be hanging out with people of our own age and NO KIDS.

At the end of the night, the friend said that like 8 people had asked if we were breaking up.

Why?

We'd barely spoken to each other all night.

We were cracking up. We were so eager and starved for other adults to talk to that we both basically chatted everyone up. They were used to newlyweds who hang on each other all the time.

We actually need to get out again.

[sixstringguild]

Right up there with "Women are crazy; deal with it."

And it doesn't help when they get pregnant. They get what I like to call "pregnancy dementia"...

[Typo Lad]

And it doesn't help when they get pregnant. They get what I like to call "pregnancy dementia"...

When they "get" pregnant?

yes. Because we have nothing to do with that. Nope.

[cactusmaac]

My parents have a great mechanism for dealing with arguments.

One of them will make a request of the other. The other will flat-out refuse and give a long list of reasons why. Then 20 minutes later they'll do it anyway.

And is it me or do lawyers have more marital problems than other people?

Somewhat jibes with what I've seen in the real world.

[west3man]

When they "get" pregnant?

yes. Because we have nothing to do with that. Nope.
"get pregnant" is a common enough phrase, where I live. I don't think "when they are impregnated, by us or through invitro..." would've rolled off the tongue as well.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

My parents have a great mechanism for dealing with arguments.

One of them will make a request of the other. The other will flat-out refuse and give a long list of reasons why. Then 20 minutes later they'll do it anyway.

And is it me or do lawyers have more marital problems than other people?

Somewhat jibes with what I've seen in the real world.


Actually, lawyers who have at any time practiced family law tend to have better marriages, in my experience. I'll never forget when, as a brand new prosecutor assigned to child support and welfare reimbursement, I put my monthly salary into the computer to see what my child support payment would be on a hypothetical child. On my meager salary, I didn't think I could come up with an extra $770 every month, and this was in 1993!

And since I've had some experience with family law since going private, the absolute last thing I ever want to do is go through a divorce. Even "friendly" divorces often turn into nightmares.

It's certainly a motivator to do all that you can to save your marriage.

[Typo Lad]

"get pregnant" is a common enough phrase, where I live. I don't think "when they are impregnated, by us or through invitro..." would've rolled off the tongue as well.

Heh.

I still don't like it, honestly. It's kind of like "Hey, got her pregnant... my work hewre is done. High fives all around!"

[YoursTruly]

Okay. I've been married 15 years now;

Super congratz. I could only stand it for 5 years. I've been divorced for 7 years and still don't know if I wanna do it again.

[OzBat!]

When they "get" pregnant?

yes. Because we have nothing to do with that. Nope.Well, if you'd been listening to what the ultra-super-secret-feminist agenda have not been saying, you'd know that they've just about cracked that one!

More hard-wired instructions - "Dishes. Learn to love them!"