The Ladder Theory of adult male/female interaction

[Deathlok]

The ladder theory is a funny, scientific explanation of how men and women
are attracted to each other. It also covers such topics as why women
sometimes just want to be friends but men always want sex. It is based upon
many years of sociological field testing, and was first conceptualized in
1994 in Exeter, CA by Dallas Lynn with acknowledgements to Jared Whitson for
his role in formalizing the theory.




http://www.laddertheory.com/

[Fabian]

It also covers such topics as why women sometimes just want to be friends but men always want sex.
That's funny because I want neither when I see you

[Wesley Dodds]

Harsh but fair.

[MKTerra]

Funny, this was reposted a little while ago... 'twas a different site, though.

Ah, yes: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

[Noah Johnson]

Jesus, this stupid, juvenile theory again. It'd be bad enough without the ads on that site piously informing us that "President Bush is fighting frivolous lawsuits!" and he needs our help to protect rich companies from the consequences of their policies.

No, the theory does not apply to me or most of the people I know. No, I don't think it's funny or insightful. And yes, if you're a man who believes in this theory and isn't happy with the amount of play he's getting, you should ask yourself whether those two phenomena may share a root cause.

[Deathlok]

then why almost every month, is there some dude posting YET another thread about some lady he has been friends with & if he is getting signals from her to be more!

LOL

[Deathlok]

For women, friendships and romantic relationships are two separate things. They are NOT the same.

One can lead to another, but it's RARE when it happens.

Remember that.

One CAN lead to another, but it's RARE.

"Romantic" relationships are very different from "friend" relationships.

While most men would sleep with most of their female "friends" if the woman "came on" to them, most women would NOT sleep with most men that they consider "just friends".

[Noah Johnson]

Why is it always the men who know the least about women who talk the most about What Women Are Really Like?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Why is it always the men who know the least about women who talk the most about What Women Are Really Like?

Maybe Deathlok is the Earth-3 version of iwarrior.

[Deathlok]

why is it that there is thread anfter thread all over the net about guys thinking they can be friends with a woman , then more later....... cause it does not work that way, most of the time ..... its very rare

[JeffreyWKramer]

why is it that there is thread anfter thread all over the net about guys thinking they can be friends with a woman , then more later....... cause it does not work that way, most of the time ..... its very rare

Why is it that you say exactly the same thing on posts #5 and #10 of the same thread? Is it because you think repeating yourself will somehow make people think some crackpot psych "theory of everything" has some validity, sort of how Samurai keeps repeating the same nonsense again and again in political and gay rights threads?

[Tadhg Adams]

The ladder theory is a funny, scientific explanation of how men and women are attracted to each other.


Where's the science?

[Noah Johnson]

Deathlok, I really hate to use the appeal to authority, especially my own, but seriously, defer to knowledge. Me and Kramer are both guys who really, really know what we're talking about on the subject of sex.

Okay, we're also both snarky SOBs, but I think that's just a coincidence. :)

[JeffreyWKramer]

Where's the science?

The same place it is in Scientology.

[Archyduke]

I started out in a friendly, platonic relationship with every girl I've ever dated save for one; and that one was by far the shitties relationship I've ever been in.

By the same token, I've had dozens of female friends that I haven't even thought about sleeping with or making any sort of move on.

Now, maybe I'm some kind of bizarre freak of probability, but ah... I think maybe this theory is a bit completely bs.

[K'Nort]

Deathlok, I really hate to use the appeal to authority, especially my own, but seriously, defer to knowledge. Me and Kramer are both guys who really, really know what we're talking about on the subject of sex.

You have a pretty narrow specialization though. For example, you have trouble relating to how people who prefer monogamy will relate or react to things. Which is not specifically relevant to the ladder theory, but in terms of overall expertise.

[Noah Johnson]

You have a pretty narrow specialization though. For example, you have trouble relating to how people who prefer monogamy will relate or react to things. Which is not specifically relevant to the ladder theory, but in terms of overall expertise.
Fair point, to an extent. I do tend to come at matters from my own perspective, which is non-monogamous at this point in my life, but I was monogamous for a long time, and I do think I remember how it works. Part of it is that I tend to give my own personal opinion, which often comes out in some form of "I understand why you feel that way, but it might be healthier or more productive to think of it in these terms instead."

And of course, as observed above, I'm a snarky SOB, which probably sometimes clouds the extent to which I empathize with perspectives I don't agree with.

[Tadhg Adams]

The same place it is in Scientology.

Are you saying we don't have scientific proof that we evolved from clams?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Are you saying we don't have scientific proof that we evolved from clams?

Well, I admit that may be true of Tom Cruise...

[Smoogis]

Funny, this was reposted a little while ago... 'twas a different site, though.

Ah, yes: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

That would because he started that other thread of the same theory.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=85785

[Converge]

the ladder theory works, but only when applied to shallow people.

like myself and everyone i know.

[howyadoin]

Deathlok, I really hate to use the appeal to authority, especially my own, but seriously, defer to knowledge. Me and Kramer are both guys who really, really know what we're talking about on the subject of sex.Careful you don't break your arm, patting yourself on the back like that.

[Ed Cunard]

Where's the science?

That makes me think of those "where's the beef" commercials from the '80s, and then I don't think about ladders, sex or relationships.

I think of sweet, sweet Classic Singles with cheese.

[JeffreyWKramer]

That makes me think of those "where's the beef" commercials from the '80s, and then I don't think about ladders, sex or relationships.

I think of sweet, sweet Classic Singles with cheese.

And hot sex with the old lady in those commercials.

[Ed Cunard]

And hot sex with the old lady in those commercials.

I think of that without any prompting.

[Converge]

Me and Kramer are both guys who really, really know what we're talking about on the subject of sex.


Why?

______________

[Charles RB]

It is based upon
many years of sociological field testing, and was first conceptualized in
1994 in Exeter, CA by Dallas Lynn with acknowledgements to Jared Whitson for
his role in formalizing the theory.

What, genuinely? Is this actually based on actual sociological field testing done at the actual Exeter by an actual sociologist?

Or, and this is the more likely answer, is it bullshit or a piss-take?

EDIT: Also- you posted this link before! You could've just bumped that thread up, it'd have saved me typing a second "is this genuine" post.

[Paul McEnery]

the ladder theory works, but only when applied to shallow people.

like myself and everyone i know.
I dunno.

If you live in a specifically bohemian community, sooner or later, everyone does everybody else (more or less). And it's not that big of a deal. Except during the breakup -- which is an excellent talking point, and an excuse for more bad behaviour.

Though of course if you live in a specifically bohemian community, the chances are high of one or more of the partners in a break-up being so totally off their trolley that there are no reasonable grounds for platonic reconciliation.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Or, and this is the more likely answer, is it bullshit or a piss-take?
*Ding ding* We have a winner!

[Charles RB]

*Ding ding* We have a winner!

I hope I've won a trip to Disneyland.

[Converge]

I dunno.

If you live in a specifically bohemian community, sooner or later, everyone does everybody else (more or less). And it's not that big of a deal. Except during the breakup -- which is an excellent talking point, and an excuse for more bad behaviour.

Though of course if you live in a specifically bohemian community, the chances are high of one or more of the partners in a break-up being so totally off their trolley that there are no reasonable grounds for platonic reconciliation.

How many people live in a "specifically bohemian community?" Whatever the hell that is.

The ladder theory applies to normal people who go to bars to pick up chicks. Not people who live in some special "community" and fuck everyone else who lives in said community.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I hope I've won a trip to Disneyland.

That's the good part.

The bad part is, your host on the trip is Michael Jackson, and you have to dress as an eight-year-old.

[howyadoin]

That's the good part.

The bad part is, your host on the trip is Michael Jackson, and you have to dress as an eight-year-old.And there's only one seat on the plane.

[Deathlok]

I started out in a friendly, platonic relationship with every girl I've ever dated save for one; and that one was by far the shitties relationship I've ever been in.

By the same token, I've had dozens of female friends that I haven't even thought about sleeping with or making any sort of move on.

Now, maybe I'm some kind of bizarre freak of probability, but ah... I think maybe this theory is a bit completely bs.


Criticism: I have lots of male friends who would never think of me that way blah blah blah.

Answer: Your friend doesn't find you attractive, or he's currently doing better, or he's gay or you're wrong.


Criticism: So a woman is a bad person just because she won't sleep with you? Don't you hang out with people you don't want to sleep with? Are women supposed to just fuck every guy who wants to fuck them so they won't be bitches?

Answer: Yes, I hang out with people I don't want to sleep with, but they're all people who don't want to sleep with me either. So there's equity. It's not that I think women are bad people for not wanting to sleep with me. It's moreso that:
I have plenty of friends already
I will never be able to truly be friends with them because my perspective will be colored by my desire to sleep with them
If they are not cool then they are probably just attractive and why would i want to hang out with them if they won't sleep with me? If they are cool then the desire to sleep with them will only intensify the more I hang out with them so I am really only torturing myself emotionally to hang out with them and pretend that that is all I want. Why would I or any guy want to put himself through that?

[howyadoin]

normal people who go to bars to pick up chicks.I'd say that qualifies as a "specifically bohemian community".

[Dreadstar]

Oh c'mon, this thing is simply intended to entertain. Is it scientific? Nah, but there's enough truth to it to just tweak the funny bone. Enough truth to be called a true theory? Nah, but who cares? It's just out there for shits and giggles. That much is obvious just from the presentation.

Time to extract the wooden cylinder from the anal aperture.

[PatrickG]

I want to date girls I'm friends with first.

This theory does a good job explaining why I don't get to.

[Converge]

I'd say that qualifies as a "specifically bohemian community".

How?

___________________

[Tadhg Adams]

Oh c'mon, this thing is simply intended to entertain. Is it scientific? Nah, but there's enough truth to it to just tweak the funny bone. Enough truth to be called a true theory? Nah, but who cares? It's just out there for shits and giggles. That much is obvious just from the presentation.

Time to extract the wooden cylinder from the anal aperture.

Buzzkill..

[Dreadstar]

Buzzkill..

My work here is done.

[Smoogis]

Criticism: I have lots of male friends who would never think of me that way blah blah blah.

Answer: Your friend doesn't find you attractive, or he's currently doing better, or he's gay or you're wrong.


Criticism: So a woman is a bad person just because she won't sleep with you? Don't you hang out with people you don't want to sleep with? Are women supposed to just fuck every guy who wants to fuck them so they won't be bitches?

Answer: Yes, I hang out with people I don't want to sleep with, but they're all people who don't want to sleep with me either. So there's equity. It's not that I think women are bad people for not wanting to sleep with me. It's moreso that:
I have plenty of friends already
I will never be able to truly be friends with them because my perspective will be colored by my desire to sleep with them
If they are not cool then they are probably just attractive and why would i want to hang out with them if they won't sleep with me? If they are cool then the desire to sleep with them will only intensify the more I hang out with them so I am really only torturing myself emotionally to hang out with them and pretend that that is all I want. Why would I or any guy want to put himself through that?


Do you pull all your arguments from quotes of the subject you are discussing or do you actually process your own opinions in mind?

[howyadoin]

How?It's a specific group of people "who disregard conventional standards of behavior", to paraphrase dictionary.com's definition.

[Charles RB]

Criticism: I have lots of male friends who would never think of me that way blah blah blah.

Answer: Your friend doesn't find you attractive, or he's currently doing better, or he's gay or you're wrong.

So, what, did the Ladder Theory people go and ask her friend?

It's not that I think women are bad people for not wanting to sleep with me. It's moreso that:
I have plenty of friends already
I will never be able to truly be friends with them because my perspective will be colored by my desire to sleep with them

You can never be truly friends with women because of your hormonal urge to have sex with them? Well, that says a lot about your strange and sad life than aboutt he male gender.

If they are cool then the desire to sleep with them will only intensify the more I hang out with them so I am really only torturing myself emotionally to hang out with them and pretend that that is all I want.

Ye gods, is this guy a weird loser. He's such a loser that I think he's a loser, and that's pretty damn loser-esque.

[Converge]

It's a specific group of people "who disregard conventional standards of behavior", to paraphrase dictionary.com's definition.

Since when is going out to meet members of the opposite sex not a conventional standard of behavior?

PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemianism

"The term has become associated with various artistic or academic communities and is used as a generalized adjective describing such people, environs, or situations: bohemian' (boho - informal) is defined in The American College Dictionary as "a person with artistic or intellectual tendencies, who lives and acts with no regard for conventional rules of behavior.""

[PatrickG]

By Bohemian, I think Paul means hippies and socialists.

I have a lot of friends who are both and they do seem more sexually liberated.

See though, I find power executive women sexy. People always confuse this with the cliched librarian crushes that guys get. No, I'm talking about MBAs, Public Relations analysts, political pundits, women in advertizing and marketing.

Hippie=turnoff for me, usually. But for some reason, I swoon a bit at the thought of a female Enron exec who smokes cigars, bulldozes low income neighborhoods, clubs seals and attends power lunches with the RNC.

Funny thing is, I've never REALLY met one. I've known a few "corporate" women but they always wuss out by saying how much they want to be a homemaker. World conquest should come first, y'know?

I do have a soft spot for humanitarians and artists. Dancers, community volunteers, veternarians, actresses...

But Hippies don't generally wind up on my ladder.

I rather like the thought of wearing armani and attending social events, not hiking through the dirty woods and smoking hash.

[Charles RB]

By Bohemian, I think Paul means hippies and socialists.

I have a lot of friends who are both and they do seem more sexually liberated.

I wish I knew some hippies then.

[Dreadstar]

By Bohemian, I think Paul means hippies and socialists.

Oh! The dregs, then.

Me, when someone says Bohemian, I think "Stroh's".

[Paul McEnery]

By Bohemian, I think Paul means hippies and socialists.
Nah. In bed, hippies just lie there.

By bohemian, I mean, for example:

The punk rock community in Sacramento when I lived there.

The punk rock band scene that lives upstairs from me.

The group of misfits that clusters in the Lower Haight.

The comix/sexworkers/rocknroll/satanists/writers/artists/etc. scene that clusters around Last Gasp Comics.

The people my brother knows in the opera/stage world.

Etc.

[howyadoin]

Since when is going out to meet members of the opposite sex not a conventional standard of behavior?Ah, but you didn't say "going out to meet members of the opposite sex". You said "go[ing] to bars to pick up chicks." Not necessarily the same thing, and traditional Judeo-Christian values generally frown on the latter.

[Noah Johnson]

Not to mention the plethora of polyamorous perverts paddling playfully around Portland.

[Deathlok]

So, what, did the Ladder Theory people go and ask her friend?



You can never be truly friends with women because of your hormonal urge to have sex with them? Well, that says a lot about your strange and sad life than aboutt he male gender.



Ye gods, is this guy a weird loser. He's such a loser that I think he's a loser, and that's pretty damn loser-esque.


yes thats correct, if I am friends with a woman & she is good looking, then I want to bang the crap out of her, if she doe s not want to, well then its my duty to make her life a living hell!

men & women cannot be friends.... unless she has many good looking single friends, then i use her to set me up, otherwise fuck that!

[Noah Johnson]

yes thats correct, if I am friends with a woman & she is good looking, then I want to bang the crap out of her, if she doe s not want to, well then its my duty to make her life a living hell!

men & women cannot be friends.... unless she has many good looking single friends, then i use her to set me up, otherwise fuck that!
The problem here is not with women or with men... it's with one man.

(Hint: The man in question is not Broadway legend Mandy Patinkin.)

(Second hint: It's not Vladimir Putin either.)

[Paul McEnery]

yes thats correct, if I am friends with a woman & she is good looking, then I want to bang the crap out of her, if she doe s not want to, well then its my duty to make her life a living hell!

Funny that. Because it seems to me that that's not an either/or.

[Atomic Mongoose]

I think the problem lies in that the Ladder Theory is half-satire, despite its firm roots in the reality of "human courtship". It was also designed to get a laugh out of people who don't take themselves and their sex lives (or lack thereof) too seriously; and not for pseudo-intellectual snobs who can't take a joke and need to analyze to death every piece of information presented to them.

In a nutshell: If you're getting laid, you'll be able to laugh at the theory and appreciate it for the half-joke that it is. It's the people who aren't getting any play that will take issue with it.

[Charles RB]

men & women cannot be friends.... unless she has many good looking single friends, then i use her to set me up, otherwise fuck that!

Well, I think I've found the reason why you think the Ladder Theory is true.

[PatrickG]

The ladder theory doesn't mean you must be a dick towards people.

I do think that men, unless otherwise occupied, would pursue any female they found attractive, friend or not. Whereas many women are comfortable having close male friends that they would never pursue a relationship with.

[Deathlok]

The ladder theory doesn't mean you must be a dick towards people.




no, just stick my dick on da womens! :eek:

[Michael P]

Please lurk more.

[Charles RB]

no, just stick my dick on da womens! :eek:

Methinks someone doesn't get how it works.

[Jeff Brady]

Methinks someone doesn't get how it works.

That's not the only thing he doesn't get.

[Awesome Rita]

Methinks someone doesn't get how it works.This is just too funny to not get a ...HA!

[howyadoin]

Please lurk more.Internet putdown of the year.

[Dreadstar]

Internet putdown of the year.
Credit where credit's due. Inspired!

[Tadhg Adams]

It's the people who aren't getting any play that will take issue with it.

That and the people who just find it unfunny.

[Paradox]

Tadhg Adams gives one group:

That and the people who just find it unfunny.

And also those of us who are tired of seeing it posted as if it WERE "the gospel" by people who also don't get it.

[MKTerra]

Internet putdown of the year.That one actually gets used disproportionately frequently in less civil places of the 'net, but... :p

[Michael P]

That one actually gets used disproportionately frequently in less civil places of the 'net, but... :p
Yes, I've actually been holding onto that one for a while.

[Charles RB]

And also those of us who are tired of seeing it posted as if it WERE "the gospel" by people who also don't get it.

I can safely say that the Ladder Theory is as true to life as the last episode of Power Rangers I watched.

In fact, no, the Power Rangers episode was more realistic. It taught me that being beaten up by a man in a rubber monster costume will hurt.

[nubly]

By See though, I find power executive women sexy. People always confuse this with the cliched librarian crushes that guys get. No, I'm talking about MBAs, Public Relations analysts, political pundits, women in advertizing and marketing.

i go for the girl-next-door type. you cant tell me they are not sexy