PDA

View Full Version : Timeline of the Various Batman/Catwoman Romances (1st Draft)


Lorendiac
10-11-2005, 08:30 PM
I often see threads begin on one forum or another with questions along these general lines:

"Have Batman and Catwoman ever dated before the last couple of years?"

"When did she first find out his secret identity?"

"Has Bruce ever proposed marriage to her?"

"Didn't I hear somewhere that they used to have a kid?"

"Didn't she used to be a prostitute?"

And so on, and so forth.

Those questions are much easier to ask than to answer. Several of them look as if they should only require a very simple, straightforward answer of "Yes" or "No." But appearances are deceiving: With all the retcons DC has done over the years, it is never that simple! : )

Any fair answer to those questions would have to start out with all sorts of nitpicking counterquestions and qualifiers, along the following lines.

"That depends. Are you asking about Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis? If Pre-Crisis, is it the Earth-2 Batman/Catwoman romance you want to know about, or the Earth-1 version? If you're asking about the Post-Crisis continuity regarding the Pre-Crisis Earth-1 stories about their romance, and/or about her past history of prostitution, do you want to know about the Immediately Post-Crisis continuity on those subjects, or the later Post-Post-Crisis continuity on that same subjects, or the Post-Crisis-But-Probably-Out-Of-Continuity version that only exists in Jeph Loeb's own little world? And you do understand that anything and everything that you vividly remember seeing in the movie with Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer means absolutely nothing as regards the comic book continuity . . . er, don't you?"

So: Similar to my previous work on a Timeline of First Appearances for each and every Supergirl, Super-Girl, Superwoman, Power Girl, or Kara who has ever been connected with the tangled subject of "Superman continuity," Pre- or Post-Crisis, I am now trying to put together a shorter Timeline of key moments in the various Batman/Catwoman Romances over the past 65 years! I have no intention of trying to list every single issue that showed them flirting, fighting, hugging, kissing, dating, getting married, or whatever . . . but I do want to hit enough of the highlights to show you how their various romances have progressed and later been retconned to make room for the Next Batman/Catwoman Romance as a Daring New Idea! (And I'm going easy on you! I won't even mention any of the Elseworlds stories that have fooled around with the idea of a Batman/Catwoman romance!) : )


THE TIMELINE OF THE VARIOUS BATMAN/CATWOMAN ROMANCES

1940. Batman #1. First appearance of a female thief known as "The Cat," although she does not actually wear a cat-costume. She is, however, an expert in disguising herself, and is also quite flirtatious with Batman. She is detected and apprehended - but at the very end of the story, she gets away from the custody of the Dynamic Duo. Robin (Dick Grayson) indignantly accuses Batman of having deliberately given her the opportunity. Batman's quasi-denial is less than convincing. Bear in mind that for roughly the next 15 years or more, at a guess, all references to Batman and Catwoman in comics published at the time will by definition refer to the Earth-2, or Golden Age (GA) versions of those characters.

1940. Batman #2. She starts calling herself Catwoman. Over the years she will wear many different costumes, some of which have very little, if anything, in the way of a feline motif.

1950. Batman #62. Catwoman takes a nasty bump on the head and claims that it knocked some sense into her. Years earlier, she was a honest young airline stewardess, and then she took a previous head injury that apparently blanked out her previous memories of her law-abiding, ethical life and turned her into the laughing thief, The Cat (later Catwoman). Now
the subsequent blow to the head has essentially hit a "reset" button and she remembers her days as a stewardess but nothing about any subsequent criminal career as The Cat, later Catwoman. When Batman explains her own recent biography to her, she feels just terrible about it.

1954. Detective Comics #203. Catwoman reverts back to her criminal self. [NOTE: Even before Crisis, this particular development had been implicitly retconned away into oblivion by things we later learned about how the romance between Earth-2's Bruce and Selina had progressed.]

Somewhere around this time, we have:

The Transition from Earth-2 to Earth-1 Continuity in the regular monthly titles

Sometime around the mid-to-late 1950s (I think), the Golden Age versions of Batman and Robin cease to appear in the regular titles being published each month. Instead, we are now seeing the Earth-1 versions (although we only learn this later, after the 1961 story "Flash of Two Worlds" in Flash #123, which introduced the distinction between Earth-1 and Earth-2 continuity when the JLA Flash of Earth-1 came face to face with the JSA Flash of Earth-2. This story was followed by lots of other stuff in the next several years that further developed the idea and sometimes made it a bit clearer which things had happened in one or the other of the Earths instead of on both. To complicate the issue, many of the stories that had happened to Batman and Robin on Earth-2 in the Golden Age also seem to have happened, almost exactly the same way, to their younger Earth-1 counterparts and were occasionally referred to in later comics.

For instance, when Steve Englehart was doing a brief run on "Detective Comics" (with Marshall Rogers illustrating) in the 1970s, in stories collected in the TPB "Batman: Strange Apparitions," he dusted off two villains who had only previously appeared in stories way back in the 1940s - a decade which was definitely "Golden Age, Earth-2" material by anyone's standards. But Englehart wanted to revive the names of Hugo Strange and Deadshot, so he did. Apparently, therefore, Earth-1 Batman had tangled with the Earth-1 counterparts of those Golden Age characters in stories which had been remarkably identical to the events experienced by their Earth-2 equivalents in the comics of the 1940s.

In the meantime, stories published about Batman and/or Catwoman from this era until around late 1986 presumably depict the adventures of the Earth-1, Silver Age (SA), Pre-Crisis versions of those characters except when we are specifically told it's the Earth-2 versions in a particular story. And until 1979, their relationship will be much as it had been in the 1940s - Batman the good guy trying to arrest her; Catwoman the bad girl trying to pull off various crimes, but also sometimes showing a flirtatious interest in Batman.

1977. DC Super-Stars #17. First appearance of Helena Wayne, also known as the Huntress of Earth-2. Helena is the daughter of Bruce Wayne and his wife, Selina. As far as I know, this story was the one that first informed us that way back in the 1950s, the GA versions of Batman and Catwoman had finally admitted they were crazy about each other, and had gotten married.

1979. Batman #308. Selina Kyle, as herself, no costume, meets Bruce Wayne and assures him she has reformed. I don't know how she avoided going to prison (or had she in fact served time already, behind the scenes or something?). In other stories over the next several years, she will sometimes put on the costume again, but usually for laudable purposes such as helping Batman apprehend vicious criminals - or even capturing a few on her own in stories without his help.

For a while after this, Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle date occasionally. She knows that he knows she used to be Catwoman (it was a matter of public record), but he probably thinks she doesn't know that he is Batman.

1982. Brave and the Bold #197. Written by Alan Brennert. Rather extravagantly titled "The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne." It is not his life story; it is actually an autobiographical account of a single case he worked which the Earth-2 Bruce Wayne worked on back in the 1950s. This Bruce Wayne describes how he finally ended up admitting he had fallen in love with the Catwoman of Earth-2, with the result that they married after she got out of prison. They apparently had roughly two decades of marital bliss before she died (and he had also already died in a previous story, not long after the framing sequence of this story is set), and they had raised one child, Helena Wayne, who became the Earth-2 Huntress (this had already been established "in continuity" in the 1970s, but Helena's superhero career was not mentioned in this story).

As a side note on a retcon: It is established in this story that Selina ultimately admitted to Batman that her double case of amnesia ("I became Catwoman because I had amnesia, and now I'm quitting because I've got amnesia about all the stunts I pulled when I was Catwoman!") had been a total sham. She had simply gotten sick and tired of wasting several years of her life being on the wrong side in a game of cops-and-robbers and decided to turn herself in and let the legal system do whatever seemed necessary so she could "rehabilitate" herself. The amnesia was a cover story that seemed like a good idea at the time, or words to that effect. (Batman, for his part, had evidently suspected as much all along, but had decided that if she was willing to give up a life of crime and throw herself on the mercy of the court and take whatever a judge said she had coming, then Batman would be a gentleman and not further humiliate her by publicly calling her a liar about the whole "amnesia" defense.)

Lorendiac
10-11-2005, 08:33 PM
1983. Batman #355. Catwoman has temporarily gone a bit insane because (as established in one or two previous stories) her relationship with Bruce had broken up some time earlier, but recently she came back to Gotham thinking of renewing it - and found he was dating Vicki Vale nowadays. Catwoman ends up fighting Batman and saying she hates him, but after stunning him with a knee to the jaw and pondering a fatal attack on the throat, she blinks and says in horror, "Bruce - I nearly killed you!" Batman says manfully that he wasn't in such bad shape as for that to be possible - "You've got a tough knee - but I've got a tougher jaw." (This is being paraphrased from memory and is probably not word-perfect in its accuracy, but you get the general idea.)

It appears that she has finally made her peace with the idea that whatever they had is all over now. They apparently parted as friends with no hard feelings.

Comments in a later letter column in the Batman title, reacting to this story, told me that this was the first time "in continuity" that the Earth-1 Catwoman had ever explicitly demonstrated that she knew darn well who Batman really was under that mask. There had never been any previous scene onstage, in any comic set on Earth-1, where he had told her, even after she reformed and their civilian identities started dating - so apparently she had just figured it out on her own, somewhere along the line. I don't believe we ever found out just how long she had known.

1983. Detective Comics #526. The 500th consecutive appearance of Batman in the Detective Comics title since his debut in Detective Comics #27 in 1939. Many of his "classic" enemies (and also some deservedly obscure ones!) get involved one way or another. The story begins with a scene where the Joker has invited all sorts of old Batman villains to come to a deserted theater for a strategy conference. Joker apparently was behind the times regarding Catwoman's current attitude toward the law (and toward Batman particularly) because she eavesdrops on the rest of them long enough to get the gist - they'll gang up on Batman and hopefully kill him - and then quietly slides out to go to the Batcave and warn him. She and Talia both end up fighting as Bruce's allies throughout the remainder of the story, and then Selina Kyle basically vanishes into comic book limbo for about two years.

1985. Crisis on Infinite Earths. After the Crisis winds down, the Earth-2 versions of the Batman Family characters no longer exist. That naturally includes the Golden Age Batman, the Golden Age Catwoman, and the Huntress of the late 70s and early 80s.

Not until late 1986 do the Batman titles get severely affected by "Crisis on Infinite Earths," apparently because someone decided it would be a nice gesture to let Doug Moench finish a long run on both "Batman" and "Detective Comics" with a grand finale in the nice round number of "Batman #400," around late 1986, after he had been the sole writer on both those titles for about three and a half years. (Mathematically, if he had written exactly the same stories as consecutive monthly installments of a single ongoing series, it would have been a very respectable seven-year run.) Toward the end of Moench's run, he had Batman and Catwoman getting together again - with her helping out in his crimefighting endeavors, since she was still reformed at the time - after she had previously spent a few years largely out of sight and out of mind in the Bat-titles.

1986. Detective Comics #'s 569-570. Written by Mike W. Barr. In this two-part story, the Joker somehow persuades Dr. Moon to use brain-altering devices to "restore" Catwoman to her previous unscrupulous criminal self. Batman is unable to save her from that fate, and she leaves while he is pleading with her to come back and let him help her recover her own, more law-abiding, modern memories and personality.

Best guess on my part: This story was written as a "bridge" to move the long-reformed, in-love-with-Bruce Catwoman of the last several years, over into a grimmer-and-grittier "unrepentant Bad Girl" mode for the Post-Crisis era, but without doing anything so awkward as totally "rebooting" her by throwing away all of the old Catwoman continuity from stories set on the Pre-Crisis Earth-1. What I once called a "Reverse-Change" in my discussion of all the different types of Retcons. In the Reverse-Change, you don't actually "erase" an old story or set of stories that made changes in a character's lifestyle . . . you just push everything back more-or-less to where it was before, as if those "Changes" that had seemed so "Significant and Permanent" at the time they happened were really just a very shallow and temporary thing that made absolutely no lasting impact on the key character's lifestyle in the long run. One of the most common Reverse-Changes is to bring a dead character back to life, good as new, and then carry on, same as before, as if nothing much had ever happened in the first place.

I don't know if Barr came up with the idea for this Reverse-Change story on his own, and then sold it to an editor, or if an editor decided it was time to find a way to "turn back the clock" on Catwoman and put her back in her "shameless thief who doesn't date Bruce Wayne" frame of mind and ordered Barr to find a way to make it semi-plausible that this psychological shift had happened in the proverbial blink of an eye. Either way, however, this seems to have become the Post-Crisis version of the Batman/Catwoman relationship for awhile. "Sure, they used to date seriously, just as longtime fans remember from the late 70s and early-to-mid 80s in the Pre-Crisis stories - but it doesn't matter anymore! All over and done with! She's been reverted back to her earlier criminal lifestyle!" However, eventually there must have been another shift in editorial policy, as we shall see later on.

1986. Batman #404. Written by Frank Miller. The beginning of the four-part "Year One" story arc (later collected as a TPB). As we first meet her, this version of the Post-Crisis Selina Kyle is working as a prostitute in the red-light district of Gotham and fights a heavily disguised Bruce Wayne who is making his first reconnaissance of one of the worst neighborhoods in Gotham, just to get a better grasp of what he'll be up against later. (At this moment he had not yet decided to dress up like a bat - he was still trying to feel his way into his proposed "war on crime.")

Several of the writers who worked on Catwoman in the 1990s emphatically rejected the idea that Selina had ever made her living as a prostitute, nor even seriously considered it. Jo Duffy was the first writer to work on the Catwoman title that started in 1993, and in an interview I read around the time the first issue came out, she said in plain English that Frank Miller might have liked the prostitution idea, but she didn't. As far as she was concerned, it had never happened because Selina had far too much self-respect for that. Duffy conceded, reasonably enough, that it was not out of the question for Selina to disguise herself and briefly pose as a prostitute, if it seemed the best way to infiltrate a target area during a mission, until she could get her hands on whatever she was really after. I believe that Chuck Dixon and Doug Moench went along with that general interpretation of her character and background; on the other hand, I have heard that more recently Ed Brubaker has dropped in references in her own title to the sordid days of professional prostitution.

1992. The movie "Batman Returns" is released. Selina Kyle (played by Michelle Pfeiffer) becomes Catwoman and a sort of double romance ensues - Selina with Bruce, while simultaneously Catwoman is flirting more outrageously with Batman (and fighting him at the same time). By the end of the movie they've both figured out the whole thing, but Catwoman conveniently "dies" before Bruce can a) try to get her some psychiatric help on the one hand, or b) actually have to face the terrible risk of possibly making something resembling a serious and long-term commitmentin a romantic relationship! (The horror! The horror! You wouldn't want him to do a crazy thing like that, would you?)

Naturally, the movie has nothing to do with the "regular continuity" of the comic books, but I figured it deserved to be acknowledged here. I'm still waiting for a sequel to this movie - not just any old Batman movie, but a Batman movie that would actually follow up on the Batman/Catwoman romance as it began in this one. (It's only been 13 years! Why should I give up hope just yet? I had to go 16 years between the third and fourth Star Wars movies, after all!)

Lorendiac
10-11-2005, 08:37 PM
1993. Batman #499. (Part 17 of "Knightfall.") Selina Kyle is in a rush to get to Santa Prisca, and Gotham's richest man, Bruce Wayne, recently left stuck in a wheelchair as the result of an "accident," is about to leave Gotham for Santa Prisca on a chartered flight. Selina stows away on board and - after they're airborne - gives a lame story about having just ducked into the onboard restroom to answer a call of nature and then accidentally dozed off and fell asleep.

Dialogue between Bruce and Selina (and Alfred, who was along to nursemaid his injured employer) in this sequence makes it completely clear that we are supposed to accept this as the very first time that Bruce and Selina have ever met face to face as Bruce and Selina, no costumes involved. Bruce apparently does not recognize the name "Selina Kyle" from anywhere, and has no clue that she is also Catwoman; Selina has no clue that he is also Batman - although she does recognize the name and face of "Bruce Wayne" from his media coverage as the richest man in Gotham.

As far as I can tell, this sequence in "Knightfall" where Bruce and Selina meet in their civilian identites for the very first time pretty well trashes the old story by Mike W. Barr that seems to have been meant, at the time, to serve as a "bridge" to move "reasonably nice, law-abiding, reformed, crimefighting Selina Kyle who dotes on Bruce Wayne" over to "bad girl Selina Kyle, the shameless thief known as Catwoman who no longer dotes on Bruce Wayne."

It also tends to damage the credibility of the scene in "Year One" where Bruce Wayne sparred with Selina Kyle for a minute after he had beaten up her pimp. Bruce was disguised as what appeared to be an African-American, scar-faced Vietnam veteran in an old Army jacket, so it's not terribly surprising that Selina wouldn't recognize his face nine or ten years later. But Bruce is supposed to have a well-trained memory and there's no sign in "Year One" that Selina was heavily disguised the way he was (although her complexion looked darker in the Year One scenes than it has ever looked in any other Catwoman story that I can think of, which has caused a lot of confusion over the years among fans wondering if Miller wanted us to think Selina was black, or half-black, or something other than a fair-skinned Caucasian. (I don't know the answer for sure - possibly he did want to plant such an impression as part of the general effect he was going for in "Year One," but if so, no one else at DC has ever shown much interest in following suit, to the best of my knowledge.)

A note: Sometime in the late 1990s or early 2000s, I read a letter column in one of the Batman or Catwoman titles in which an editor responded to a fan's question by stating for the record that in the modern continuity, the official policy was that any romantic attraction between Batman and Catwoman had never progressed beyond some "heavy flirting." (I believe that was the exact phrase that was used.) I'm sorry I can't pin it down to an exact issue.

1996. The Long Halloween #1. A 13-part miniseries, basically one huge graphic novel first published in monthly installments and then later collected in book form, written by Jeph Loeb and pencilled by Tim Sale. It is set shortly after the events of "Year One" by Frank Miller, using some of the same supporting characters he had created for that story arc.

As this story starts, Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle are "already" dating - going to social events together, for instance. We don't know how they first met in Loeb's continuity. Meanwhile, Batman and Catwoman occasionally bump into each other on the rooftops. Neither one shows any signs of realizing the other one's secret identity.

I have a vague suspicion that as much as anything, this "romance between Bruce and Selina, early in Batman's career" stuff may have been motivated by a desire on Jeph Loeb's part to reflect the way the "Batman Returns" movie had handled similar material. Which is not a bad motive, in my opinion! :)

The Long Halloween was later followed by the Dark Victory miniseries/graphic novel, which followed the same pattern regarding the Bruce/Selina relationship.

Of course, I couldn't help noticing that the way Bruce and Selina were going to parties together as Bruce and Selina in The Long Halloween was a wild contradiction of the way they could bump into each other "for the very first time" in their civilian identities in "Knightfall," set several years later in more "modern" times. (Admittedly, Selina "knew" who Bruce was, but only in the same sense that I "know" who Bill Gates is - from media coverage!)

In a piece posted as a Bob Rozakis column, but actually written by John Wells, regarding The Canon of the Bat (http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/bobro/103887248221989.htm), we were told:

The Jeph Loeb/Tim Sale LONG HALLOWEEN/DARK VICTORY opus wasn't tied to mainstream continuity, allowing them the leeway to kill Year One-era characters (like Lieutenant Flass, who survived into the present in the core series' wedding of Jim Gordon and Sarah Essen) and portray a romantic relationship between Selina Kyle and Bruce Wayne that post-Crisis continuity had prohibited. The revised history had declared that Catwoman had never been captured and that Selina had never met Bruce or Alfred (BATMAN #499 and others). That said, the aforementioned Ed Brubaker has included the Bruce-Selina romance as canon, anyway (in places like BATMAN #600, CATWOMAN (current) #10 and CATWOMAN SECRET FILES #1).

I tend to agree with the idea that Loeb's TLH/DV stories are set in their own little world that has no solid connection to any other Batman writer's work.

2003. Batman # 615. Part 8 of the 12-part "Hush" story arc. Writer Jeph Loeb has Batman confront Catwoman and pull off his mask to reveal himself as Bruce Wayne as a sign of trust and affection. She simply says, as the issue ends, "Bruce." (Which leaves it up in the air whether she was the least bit surprised to see who he was under the mask - or only startled that he now trusted her enough to officially tell her what she already darn well knew! You may pick whichever interpretation suits your personal taste on this subject!)

Previous to this moment - I'm not sure if we explicitly saw it happen onstage, nor in what comic book if we did - Catwoman had somehow convinced Batman that she had undergone a major psychological shift in her attitude toward law and order, and he had agreed not to arrest her and turn her over to the GCPD if she quit committing burglaries. (Generously ignoring the zillion outstandanding warrants various jurisdictions must have for her, because of all her previous burglaries and other crimes!)

And I am told that after "Hush" ended, there have been other scenes in the last couple of years, particularly in Catwoman's own current title, that have made it clear that Batman and Catwoman have gotten physical in their relationship and sometimes spend time together in bed. I have not actually read those stories, but that is where things have stood for the last couple of years.

However, I am told that it looks as if it's likely to fall apart during the events of Infinite Crisis. I don't have an expert opinion on that subject at the moment.

VERY BRIEF SUMMARY

So as I see it, there have been three major Batman/Catwoman romances over the yeasrs.

The Earth-2 Romance: They used to be enemies in the 1940s; in the mid-50s they got married, raised a daughter named Helena; then all that got wiped out by Crisis.

The Earth-1 Romance: They used to be enemies; then they dated for awhile; then they broke up; then they dated again until, around the time the "Post-Crisis" stories starting being published, Catwoman was brainwashed to go back to her evil ways. Then the entire Earth-1 romance was retconned out of existence, later.

The Modern Era Romance: Bruce has revealed his identity to Selina and they've been having an affair for the last two years or so (our time). I do not know if they've even talked about the remote possibility of marriage, or not.

As always, I am receptive to constructive criticism. If I made a mistake in my summaries of any of the "key moments" in Batman/Catwoman relationships, or completely omitted a story you think belongs on this Timeline, please say so! I may not take all your suggestions, but I do want to see them, because I know I'm not likely to have done everything perfectly on the first pass! :)

seaflower
10-11-2005, 11:03 PM
As a major catwoman fan I am really happy with this post.

*Kisses*

Mia
10-12-2005, 07:25 AM
Lorendiac, you know far more than I do in that regard.

But from reading the current run of Catwoman, and studying their interaction. I assumed that Bruce and Selina were ex-lovers. And who now hook up occassionally for a good time. I am surprised to read (if this is true) that the earth one romance was ret-conned out.

Ed Brubaker said he wrote Selina as if she always knew who Batman was. Which make sense. She's a smart woman and should have been able to put two and two together.

lukethegranny
10-12-2005, 04:43 PM
most informing post i've read. thanks this was really interesting.

Lorendiac
10-13-2005, 02:34 PM
Lorendiac, you know far more than I do in that regard.

But from reading the current run of Catwoman, and studying their interaction. I assumed that Bruce and Selina were ex-lovers. And who now hook up occassionally for a good time. I am surprised to read (if this is true) that the earth one romance was ret-conned out.

Ed Brubaker said he wrote Selina as if she always knew who Batman was. Which make sense. She's a smart woman and should have been able to put two and two together.

Someone on another forum made a similar point about the way Brubaker has handled it lately in her own title (which I wouldn't know about, because I've only read something like the first eight or nine issues of that title but never really got interested in it). At this moment, the different opinions seem to go something like this:

"Bruce and Selina were seriously involved in a romantic relationship in their secret identities, many years ago, very early in his Batman career, as Bruce and Selina." Supporters of this school of thought: Jeph Loeb and Ed Brubaker.

"No, they weren't." Supporters of this school of thought, as far as I know: Practically everybody else who has written about those characters at any time since Knightfall in 1993. In this instance, I tend to go along with the majority. Of course, it seems likely that post-Infinite Crisis, whatever they had will have broken up all over again, and it will hardly matter for awhile until, several years down the road, another editor and another writer decide it would be a really cool idea to have Batman and Catwoman start dating, and maybe they'll acknowledge one or more previous romances as still being "in continuity" at that time, and maybe they won't! :)

Mon-el
10-13-2005, 06:12 PM
1985. Crisis on Infinite Earths. Toward the end of Moench's run, he had Batman and Catwoman getting together again - with her helping out in his crimefighting endeavors, since she was still reformed at the time - after she had previously spent a few years largely out of sight and out of mind in the Bat-titles.


Great Post Lorendiac, I always enjoy reading your posts.

I just wanted to stick in Issue Numbers in this slot even though it was almost the ending of Doug Moench's run, and so brief before Year One happened.

Durning the Nocturna/Nightslayer arc:
Batman 389,390,391
Detective 556, 557,558

Dectective #557 Is the Issue that he tells her that he's in love with her after she was hit by lightning

Batman #392 "A Town on the Night" is the comic that they make a decision to remain partners. They go out on a Date.