Batman should not be above an @ss whoopin

[itsyaboy]

So I've been reading the OMAC series...the IC tie-ins and what have you and so far Bats smelling like a rose. Batman not only seems to be getting away with the situation he created (taking no blame) but also comes out looking like the victim (boo hoo..he lost 10min of his memory).

I mean this is the second time Batman's paranoia has come back to kick the other heroes in the ass, you'd think a few of them would be pissed....especially seeing as how the OMAC project led to Blue Beetle's death. Other than the one shot that Booster Gold took at him in OMAC #2, no other heroes have even stepped to Batman. The way I read it in Wizard months back.....it seemed like Batman would suffer a backlash from the other superheroes....when can I expect to read that because it's way overdue.

[shaderhacker]

So I've been reading the OMAC series...the IC tie-ins and what have you and so far Bats smelling like a rose. Batman not only seems to be getting away with the situation he created (taking no blame) but also comes out looking like the victim (boo hoo..he lost 10min of his memory).

I mean this is the second time Batman's paranoia has come back to kick the other heroes in the ass, you'd think a few of them would be pissed....especially seeing as how the OMAC project led to Blue Beetle's death. Other than the one shot that Booster Gold took at him in OMAC #2, no other heroes have even stepped to Batman. The way I read it in Wizard months back.....it seemed like Batman would suffer a backlash from the other superheroes....when can I expect to read that because it's way overdue.

Regardless of my love for Batman, I have to agree with you. In the Infinite Crisis, I'm sure this going to be some reprecussions of Batman's actions. I hope they narrate his thoughts pretty well..

-M

[VietN]

It has been implied that one of the reasons for his paranoia is the mind wipe. They screwed and violated him.

Personally I don't see a problem making plans in case something bad happens (ie where one of them goes bad). Using a spy satelite is going pretty far though, despite having valid reasons for mistrust.

Although he does bear some responsbility for his creation, Max Lord is to blame for blue beetle... not Batman (or whoever might be orchestrating the crisis).

[Alan2099]

He lost a few minutes. His plans have causes people's deaths and nearly killed the entire JLA.

Batman is as big a threat as any of the villians they've been fighting latley. Personally, I'd love to see the remaining Griffen era leaguers whup his butt.

[Chad G.]

He lost a few minutes. His plans have causes people's deaths and nearly killed the entire JLA.

Batman is as big a threat as any of the villians they've been fighting latley. Personally, I'd love to see the remaining Griffen era leaguers whup his butt.

Omega is holding himself he is laughing so hard at the madness. When he gets control of himself, he'll post a reply

[Alan2099]

Take your time. I already know it's going to be along the lines of "Batman was completley justifed and can do no wrong and his poop don't stink either."

We've been over this a time or two already.

[Chad G.]

He lost a few minutes. His plans have causes people's deaths and nearly killed the entire JLA.

Batman is as big a threat as any of the villians they've been fighting latley. Personally, I'd love to see the remaining Griffen era leaguers whup his butt.

Oh lord. I'm back under control. Maybe you're right. Picture it. Batman, GOD OF APOKILIPS. Or maybe Bat-Monitor, spreading Bat Matter every where. The one hero that everyone turns to when they need an answer, or they can't solve something on their own. Or they are just flat oout scared of him. Take you pick. Superman, WW, Flash, Kyle......

The single most valuable member of the team and he is the DCU biggest threat. WOW! Never looked at it like that. He should just get over them giving him that trivial little mind rape, and ignore the fact that several JLAers seemed to think they were Gods.

How could I be so blind???

:cool:

[Chad G.]

Take your time. I already know it's going to be along the lines of "Batman was completley justifed and can do no wrong and his poop don't stink either."

We've been over this a time or two already.

I think we've gotten a full dose of your anti-Batman rhetoric, but that hasn' t slowed you down yet. So lets just keep the party hoppin.

:evilsmile

[Alan2099]

Hey, excuse me for likinmg me heroes to be heroic and actually having consequences when they screw something up.

[Chad G.]

Hey, excuse me for likinmg me heroes to be heroic and actually having consequences when they screw something up.

Ohhhh, you crack me up man. You and Guts are just the light o' my day, I tell ya. ;)

[IamtheRock3]

dont think he come out like roses


He been getting his butt kicked for a while.

[Agent0]

Maybe its just me but I could've sworn Batman was having a bad year so why in the heck would anyone think he needs to get his butt kicked anymore? Hasn't "Saint" Hal Jordan and Superman nearly killing him been enough? Come on.

[prand_2002]

The thing is Batman is not the only one to screw up. WW has killed, Superboy and Superman both went on a killing spree. The seven league members who had mindwiped Dr.Light are to be blamed for villians uniting. So pretty much every one has done something wrong.

[blue13]

Hey, excuse me for likinmg me heroes to be heroic and actually having consequences when they screw something up.

as opposed to green lantern?

oh, i was under the influence...it wasn't my fault.

how can that hack johns go on and on about "light and courage" when hal pretends nothing happened.

you wanna be heroic? take responsibility.

how many people was hal responsible for?

[Arkham Resident]

dont think he come out like roses


He been getting his butt kicked for a while.

Totally, agree, man.

Going to IC, He lost almost all his support systems.. Todd's death and apparent comeback, fall-out with Supes,fall-out with WW, Alfred,
Tommy Elliot, the mind-wipe,etc.

What he has gone thru is incomparable to the other JLAers.. Whether these
were caused by him being a dick or a systematic bashing on his character in preparation for what's going to happen to him in IC.. still it hasnt been a bed of roses for the Bats.

Will the JLA kick his butt in IC? I dont care .. i just know he'll survive, as always.

[El Santo]

So I've been reading the OMAC series...the IC tie-ins and what have you and so far Bats smelling like a rose. Batman not only seems to be getting away with the situation he created (taking no blame) but also comes out looking like the victim (boo hoo..he lost 10min of his memory).

I mean this is the second time Batman's paranoia has come back to kick the other heroes in the ass, you'd think a few of them would be pissed....especially seeing as how the OMAC project led to Blue Beetle's death. Other than the one shot that Booster Gold took at him in OMAC #2, no other heroes have even stepped to Batman. The way I read it in Wizard months back.....it seemed like Batman would suffer a backlash from the other superheroes....when can I expect to read that because it's way overdue.

To be fair, Batman only created the Brother I, not the OMACs, and his actions seem fairly reasonable, considering what was done to him. I mean really, who's to say how much of his memory was taken? Zatanna could have re-written his entire life for all he knew. So he created a satellite to watch...nothing else, just watch.

The OMACs, the nano-virus, and the attempted meta-human genocide are all the product of Maxwell Lord, not Batman.

Though I do think Batman is being a bit of an ass where Wonder Woman is concerned.

[Lord Grog]

I keep reading people talk about "What a poor baby Batman is, he lost 10 minutes."

I think that there are a few very important things that those people are overlooking, perhaps intentionally out of dislike for Batman.

1. When Batman started to figure out his head had been screwed with, I really doubt a lightbulb popped up and he thought "those bastards made me forget 10 minutes!" He had no idea what the extent of the mind screwing was, or why it happened, just that it had happened, and that made him more paranoid of his teammates.

2. Probably more importantly, he wonders of they lobotomized Catwoman, who he has grown closer to lately and has, among other thing, revealed his identity to her. Wouldn't it suck to know she was a ticking time bomb, possibly about to explode in his face?

[mohammedali]

I think it's rediculous to say that Batman is *responcible* for the deaths of those people. It's like saying the Chinese were reponsible for all the deaths due to guns just because the West used the fireworks the Chinese had created to make weapons. It was Lord and Luthor who caused all those people to die, by creating OMACs that simply used Brother Is technology to monitor people. Sure, Batman went overboard, but I don't see him as the main party to blame here.

Mohammed Ali

[IamtheRock3]

yea can undestand people blamming bats

disagree with it but get it


But to say it been a bed of roses for him, when this whole thing design to knock him down a notch..is not paying attention to the year he having.

I mean in War games he got slapped around by a B villan Skeletor Look alike who was killed by Catwoman in one panel


isnt that embarrasment enough

He been knocked out, Abadon, Has been called out despite people claim otherwise, put in a Coma, slapped around, betrayed, mindwipe, His city is getting wrecked, the world against hin..and it rumors he may not even be Batman anymore..Least for a Year..just it time for the next movie to come out

How many butt whipping does a guy need

[Chad G.]

Those are some very nice pro-Batman points. I think it sums it up best to say that Batman is everybodys favorite punching bag right now:

*War in the Middle East, blame Batman
*Ozone layer depletion, Blame Batman
*Littering, DAMN that Batman
*Nuclear Arms, ummm, yea, still Batman

To says highly amusing things such as, oh, I don't know:

His plans have causes people's deaths and nearly killed the entire JLA.

.

Yep, Bats has intentially tried to murder the whole, JLA. :cool:


I'd love to see the remaining Griffen era leaguers whup his butt.

Maybe they should try some novel new techinque like wiping his mind. Nope, nevermind on that one.

Hey, excuse me for likinmg me heroes to be heroic and actually having consequences when they screw something up.

You know, one of the scenes that stick out to me is from Tower of Babel, when Bats realize that Ra's is using his protocaols, and is running out of the fortress with this look of horror on his face. I don;t seem to remember any thought bubble of him going:

HA! Now that blasted Justice League will fall at my feet at last!

Everyone want to pin the blame for everythin on Batman. And it's crap. Bats didn't shoot Ted. Maxwell Lord did. Bats didn't kill Maxwell Lord. Diana did(a very much needed death, IMO). Batman didn't send the Omacs after the meta human population, Checkmate did. I mean come on. Bat bashing is nothing more than a convient excuse for people to lash out at someone when their favorite character is simply being forgotten, or hasn't been at the forefront of the stories as of late. And all this mess about Batman just needing to get over haing been mind wiped. WHAT! Can anyone here really say that they would be totally cool with having 0 minutes of their memory just snatch away. Mind rape is rape. Period. And they took somehting from Bruce they shouldn't have. I don't blame him for not forgiving.

[itsyaboy]

Ted Kord was killed because he was investigating the Brother I satellite that Batman created (using Kord Industies technology) and when Beetle went to see Bats about this.....instead of help or answers....he got the cold shoulder. Sure it was Max who pulled the trigger, but Batman could have prevented it.

I know Batman has been catching hell for the past year or so, but those were for totally different things.

IF I was Superman this is what I'd say to Batman "You know....your protocols fell into the wrong hands and nearly got the JLA killed, now your satellite also falls into the wrong hands....helping to bring about this OMAC situation. You can't keep doing this shit". Superman doesn't talk like that but that's how I talk. It's like the hurricane Katrina fiasco, there's plenty of blame to go around and Batman should catch some of it.

[Chad G.]

Sure it was Max who pulled the trigger, but Batman could have prevented it. .

Batman would NEVER knowing allow one of his own to die. EVER. Thats nuts. If had had know what was going to happen to Ted, he WOULD have prevented it. Even his protocols for taking down the league were meant to disable, not kill.

It's like the hurricane Katrina fiasco, there's plenty of blame to go around and Batman should catch some of it.

I would never in my wildest dream imagine comparing the suffering and pain that victims of the Hurricane Katrina disaster felt to something that happens in comics books. IF I did, I would expect people to tell me what poor taste I had. :(

[Alan2099]

Batman would NEVER knowing allow one of his own to die. EVER.
Except for Jason Todd and Spoiler, right? Oh, and Azreal, and almost Barbra.

Thats nuts. If had had know what was going to happen to Ted, he WOULD have prevented it.
Okay. Somebody capable of hijacking Bruce's satelite, stealing his files, and he doesn't think Beetle might be in trouble? Not even in enough trouble to let him know what's going on or to stop and listen to him?

Beetle came and asked for him. Batman told him to get lost. Beetle died. Do you think he would have died if Batman had helped him?

Even his protocols for taking down the league were meant to disable, not kill.
Go read Tower of babel again. You don't set people's skin on fire, make them afraid of the thing they need most to survive, or inject radiactive subtances into them to disable people. Those looked like lethal tactics to me.

[Chad G.]

Except for Jason Todd and Spoiler, right? Oh, and Azreal, and almost Barbra.


Okay. Somebody capable of hijacking Bruce's satelite, stealing his files, and he doesn't think Beetle might be in trouble? Not even in enough trouble to let him know what's going on or to stop and listen to him?

Beetle came and asked for him. Batman told him to get lost. Beetle died. Do you think he would have died if Batman had helped him?


Go read Tower of babel again. You don't set people's skin on fire, make them afraid of the thing they need most to survive, or inject radiactive subtances into them to disable people. Those looked like lethal tactics to me.

And the Anti-Batman saga continues. So what it seems you are trying to say is that Bats knowingly is trying to kill every member of the JLA. Want to make sure I got that right. Because thats what I'm reading. You do understand that most if the things were meant to be non lethal, right. You DO understand they were meant to simply disable the individuals that they were targeted at, right? I don't think that Batman ever thought they would be used against the entire JLA at once. They were meant to put them down, but only long enought to put them in containment. Come on:

Plastic Man-pick the pieces up and put them in a box, out him back together, just like Flash did, did not kill him.
Martian Manhunter-roasting martian got pissed him off, but, it didn't kill him
Wonder Woman- would have passed out from exhertion, but I don't think she would have died. Heart give out. Please.
Aquaweenie - very simple matter to hypnotize him and stick him in a water tank, not dead
Green Lantern - since when did being hypnotized kill anyone
Superman-it makes a point of saying that Red would be VERY painful but wouldn't kill him
Flash - seemed pretty bllody painful, but he didn't look like he was in any danger of dying.

Did I miss anybody.

And I seem to recall during Death in the Family Batman making it a point to finally help Jason at the end. He did what a super hero should at the first by tracking down the Joker first considering he had a nuclear weapon(you know, those peskiy things). But THEN he helped that little brat search for his mother. And it was Jasons ignorant a$$ that went snooping where he shouldn't have, and jumped in when he was outgunned. And then got beat to death with a crowbar. And blown up. Which suited me just fine. Jason was a turd anyway. But the look of anuguish on Batmans face was one of the most memorable in comics as he held Jason shattered body. And he put the bullet through Barbaras spine too, huh? Cradled Jokers hand while he pulled the trigger. I would know my Bat history a little better before I started quoting it. Bats doesn't kill. Thats why he got all righteous on Diana and threw her out of the cave. I don't think mass genocide is on his menu. But then again, I think you did say:



Batman is as big a threat as any of the villians they've been fighting latley.

[Alan2099]

You know what? I like you. You're silly.

[SdotCopp]

Except for Jason Todd and Spoiler, right? Oh, and Azreal, and almost Barbra.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

what are you talking about?

[Charagon]

Personally, I don't think Tim and Cassie should have left Gotham before putting Bruce in a hospital after what he did to Sophie.

[J. Roberts]

as opposed to green lantern?

oh, i was under the influence...it wasn't my fault.

how can that hack johns go on and on about "light and courage" when hal pretends nothing happened.

you wanna be heroic? take responsibility.

how many people was hal responsible for?

Hee hee.

"Yellow Fear Monster" is to 2005 as "Tiny footprints in her brain!" is to 2004.

[Chad G.]

You know what? I like you. You're silly.

Aim to please Al. I aim to please.

:D

[IamtheRock3]

Ted Kord was killed because he was investigating the Brother I satellite that Batman created (using Kord Industies technology) and when Beetle went to see Bats about this.....instead of help or answers....he got the cold shoulder. Sure it was Max who pulled the trigger, but Batman could have prevented it.

I know Batman has been catching hell for the past year or so, but those were for totally different things.

IF I was Superman this is what I'd say to Batman "You know....your protocols fell into the wrong hands and nearly got the JLA killed, now your satellite also falls into the wrong hands....helping to bring about this OMAC situation. You can't keep doing this shit". Superman doesn't talk like that but that's how I talk. It's like the hurricane Katrina fiasco, there's plenty of blame to go around and Batman should catch some of it.


Things Bats can easily say

"Oh like you got those people killed with Your Vanishing device supes"

No that will NEVER..EVER.NEVER..EVER EVER be brough up EVER"

Bats forget to clean up his dog's poop and it a 12 issue maxi series explaing how that a jerky moves. Not going to beleave the own Superman was mind controled during vanish and most of itw as a dream..till they say it..cause I dont think that where Azz was going.

dont forget the super Robot happen twice"


Or he could say to Hal

"Oh you think this about me. How about your mindwipingpoolza cause OTHER JLA member not to trust each other..not just me..that why the group splitting up. Ok if you blame me for Omac getting out of control..well bet I can use similar Logic for VILLANS untied fiascos..heck can get Crazy...the Omac was SKEET tecenlogy...Lets KNOCK OUT skeet. Oh noooo You guys only bring up the blame for VU when Saint Hal isnt around. God forbid Sain Hal gets blame for something..heavens to betsy. Talking about ME...being untrust worthy..You guys been acting all buddy buddy to me for year after you mess with my brain..and maybe Lobotmize Catwoman..who by the way Revealed my ID to her. Like THAT wont blow up in my face. I Am now Humping a Ticking Time Bomb thanks to you.

Going...Gee Bats why you so cranky...Gee bats...you act to Harsh to those Crimnals..Meanwhile you were Pulling a One flew over the Cukos nest. With your SECRET leauge with in the League garbage.Meawhile you were putting your arm around me after you wipe my brain. You say it not Just about Batman..Batman a Jerk..Well danget if I was that bad you all could of ask me to Leave a long time ago. How many times have we save everyone lives and you do THIS.

And you know what if you other guys were a bit MORE parnoid..maybe you could of found about Max early..I not like I am the ONLY detetive here. Why do I got to be the bad guy. And dont think you get off the hook Clark..you knew about a lot of the wipes. In otherwords F you guys"



Place he being getting beat all Year..so he not coming out this unscared

And will get beat more as IC goes along TRUST ME!!

[Guts/Batman]

He lost a few minutes. His plans have causes people's deaths and nearly killed the entire JLA.

Batman is as big a threat as any of the villians they've been fighting latley. Personally, I'd love to see the remaining Griffen era leaguers whup his butt.

Heh.

I agree completely.

[Guts/Batman]

Go read Tower of babel again. You don't set people's skin on fire, make them afraid of the thing they need most to survive, or inject radiactive subtances into them to disable people. Those looked like lethal tactics to me.

Agreed again.

Those were pretty lethal attacks.

You forgot the heart attack inducing bullets. :p

[Agent0]

Go read Tower of babel again. You don't set people's skin on fire, make them afraid of the thing they need most to survive, or inject radiactive subtances into them to disable people. Those looked like lethal tactics to me.

Actually if you go re-read Tower of Babel you'd know it was RA'S AL GHUL who made the plans lethal not Batman. His contigency plans involved using just enough force to subdue the leagers not kill them why in the world would you think Batman was trying to kill them? That goes WAY against his character. Sounds like you bias is coming out.

[Chad G.]

Actually if you go re-read Tower of Babel you'd know it was RA'S AL GHUL who made the plans lethal not Batman. His contigency plans involved using just enough force to subdue the leagers not kill them why in the world would you think Batman was trying to kill them? That goes WAY against his character. Sounds like you bias is coming out.

Well said. Batman in all likelihood developed these plans never intending for them to be activated atgainst the entire league at once. They were meant to temporarily disable people unitl other leaguers could arrive. Saying Batman intended to murder anyone is a trip. An acid trip, but a trio never the less. Murder goes against everything Bruce believes. Great point Agent0.

[itsyaboy]

I would never in my wildest dream imagine comparing the suffering and pain that victims of the Hurricane Katrina disaster felt to something that happens in comics books. IF I did, I would expect people to tell me what poor taste I had. :(

I wasn't comparing the suffering and pain of the victims of Katrina to a comic book.....I was referring to how the government officials involved screwed the pooch and how there was plenty of blame to go around among them. So lighten the fuck up dude.....I'm telling you now that my statement wasn't meant to belittle the Katrina disaster.

Back on topic, I feel somewhat vinidicated after reading the latest issue of JLA.

[itsyaboy]

Actually if you go re-read Tower of Babel you'd know it was RA'S AL GHUL who made the plans lethal not Batman. His contigency plans involved using just enough force to subdue the leagers not kill them why in the world would you think Batman was trying to kill them? That goes WAY against his character. Sounds like you bias is coming out.

I mean really.....how much tweaking do you think Ra's had to do to Batman's protocols to make them lethal. Zip.....he didn't change one thing about the plans. The plans were designed to weaken and incapacitate, and if you read Tower of Babel.....that's exactly what it did. So no Batman didn't come up with a way to kill the JLA, he just came up with a way to leave them pretty much defenseless. Which made it easy for Ra's to try and deal a fatal strike.

And that's the point....Tower of Babel.....Brother I....Batman has come up with ways to leave the other heroes vulnerable and in the wrong hands that could be deadly (as we've already seen). (I know Brother I is only a super-spy satellite, but knowledge of your opponent can be just as deadly as any weapon......I mean isn't that what's supposed to allow Batman to beat everybody, he knows his opponents).

[Chad G.]

I wasn't comparing the suffering and pain of the victims of Katrina to a comic book.....I was referring to how the government officials involved screwed the pooch and how there was plenty of blame to go around among them. So lighten the fuck up dude.....I'm telling you now that my statement wasn't meant to belittle the Katrina disaster.

Back on topic, I feel somewhat vinidicated after reading the latest issue of JLA.

And like I said, have enough sense to chose your phrasing better. I acutally printed off a copy of your post and faxed to a buddy of mine who lived in the French Quarter. His comments weren't quite as nice as mine. :evilangry

I mean really.....how much tweaking do you think Ra's had to do to Batman's protocols to make them lethal. Zip.....he didn't change one thing about the plans. The plans were designed to weaken and incapacitate, and if you read Tower of Babel.....that's exactly what it did. So no Batman didn't come up with a way to kill the JLA, he just came up with a way to leave them pretty much defenseless. Which made it easy for Ra's to try and deal a fatal strike.

And that's the point....Tower of Babel.....Brother I....Batman has come up with ways to leave the other heroes vulnerable and in the wrong hands that could be deadly (as we've already seen). (I know Brother I is only a super-spy satellite, but knowledge of your opponent can be just as deadly as any weapon......I mean isn't that what's supposed to allow Batman to beat everybody, he knows his opponents).

So what you're saying is everything thats happening right now is Batman fault????

[Agent0]

I mean really.....how much tweaking do you think Ra's had to do to Batman's protocols to make them lethal. Zip.....he didn't change one thing about the plans. The plans were designed to weaken and incapacitate, and if you read Tower of Babel.....that's exactly what it did. So no Batman didn't come up with a way to kill the JLA, he just came up with a way to leave them pretty much defenseless. Which made it easy for Ra's to try and deal a fatal strike.

This being the case why are you talking about Batman like he was planning to kill his teammates when his plan was to (as you yourself point out) *weaken* them enough to the point to bring them down IF they should go rogue.

Where in Batman's notes does he secretly plan to kill Superman (matter of fact he goes out of his way to use a specially made red kryptonite thats NOT lethal to Superman) or break Plastic Man into pieces after freezing him? That my friend was Ra's Al Ghul's planning not Batman's. This is the point.

And that's the point....Tower of Babel.....Brother I....Batman has come up with ways to leave the other heroes vulnerable and in the wrong hands that could be deadly (as we've already seen). (I know Brother I is only a super-spy satellite, but knowledge of your opponent can be just as deadly as any weapon......I mean isn't that what's supposed to allow Batman to beat everybody, he knows his opponents).

Batman is a man among gods who deals with global and universal threats on a regular basis its just job to being several steps ahead of everyone else otherwise if he's not EXTREMELY careful he's dead and he knows this. Thus, their is the reason for contigency plans to take down even his closest super powered friends if need be.

Tell me something, what would you do if Superman mind controlled comes to kill you and Wonder Woman isn't around to help? Beg for mercy? In Superman's mind you just killed all his loved ones so their is NO reasoning with him. What now?

Keep in mind this isn't the first time Superman was mind controlled lets not forget such events as: King of the World, Hush, Weird, and Superman/Batman with Kingdom Come Superman (who wasn't mind controlled plus was more powerful to boot). This is not even counting the times he was possessed by Eclipso.

Then their's the Lex Luthor mini where Superman (non mind controlled) came after Batman and beat him up (which is oddly ignored). So you tell me, how does Batman stop Clark if he should decide to cross the line one day?

If Batman is guilty of anything its weak security (with obvious bad writing behind it) which is one of the biggest jobbers in comics.

[1HELLBOY]

I don't really want to get involved with this(becuase Omega and many others are doing it for me) but I do have ONE thing to say.


Batman isn't responsable for Ted Kord's death. He told Beetle to not get involved, that he'd handle it. Beetle investigated at his own risk. So, Batman is not responsable for Blue Beetle's death.


Thank you for your time.