legal online comics, it could happen

[brandechh]

Hey, I'm new here but a regular on other boards.... anyhoo, back on topic.

I was thinking about this the other day, and as others said, good story Rich. You bring up good points, and while most companies seem affraid of the idea, I think comic books, as a printed medium, should have a little easier time adapting to this than the music industry has.

Take role-playing games for example. During my brief infatuation with Kazaa (long-since passed) a friend pointed out that you could download whole books online, and unlike the music industry, no one was going after these pirates. That was hardly an incentive for me, but I later found out that White Wolf, producers of the games I play the most, sold their books digetally and legally through www.drivethrurpg.com/. For about 30 percent off the cover price I could get rare books (many of which go for upwards of $100 on eBay) and read them instantly... even search for specific words (a thousand times better than an index). What's more, I realized that the books that were sold online, even the rare expensive ones, were not available on Kazaa and other outlets. I later learned they had coding and watermarks in the files that allowed any pirated copies to be traced back to whoever originally purchased them. Genius (then again I'm not that tech savy so I'm easily impressed).

Marvel has also made attempts toward pdf comics, most notably with collections like the Amazing Spider-Man first 500 issues set. I just wish Marvel would do more of this (and I don't just mean compilations with the first five issues of several popular titles). Heck, they could do both: sell large sets by CD and sell individual issues online through a company like Drive Thru.

This would keep the companies earning proffit, not take away from the existing paper-back parket and make it possible for, as you say, younger readers to find cheaper copies of issues.

And to think, Malibue tried this way back when...

[markus]

FWIW I did not buy anything from drivethru because IMHO it sucked. Scan quality was poor in several reported cases initially (may have improved) and I firmly believe it's none of Adobe's business what PDFs I read and buy. Plus, I consider Adobe Acrobat Reader a useless pile of bloatware.
Back when they started, prices where about 5$ less than the physical copy on average which to me did not justify the inconvenience of having to bring a laptop to the gaming table.

[solid-one-love]

The publishers would be foolish to not sell comics online. At a buck each for new issues, they would make more money than they do by selling print comics. There would still be a market for print comics; collectors and completists will always want paper in their hands.

This will necessarily reduce the number of comic book stores. But markets must adapt to new technology. We cannot use the excuse that we must not produce online comics in order to save the comic shops.

[johnnyprozac]

Markus......so the viewer you used sucked...and u consider it bloatware...and it was inconvienient for youto bring the laptop to the table....your point about legal online comics?

I love it when people just go on a whine spree without a point.

Here's what your point could have been: there is a need for a viewer with a simple to use interface and simple to install process with a small foot print. U must understand that the Adobe Reader is not meant for one type of publication in one simple format...its a multifunctional reader with needs and functions meant for many different purposes and need for backwards compatibility hence the "bloat" (I love it when non-code-literate people complain about bloat *shakes head*..I mean are they gonna complain about php's foot print next?)

So what is needed is a viewer designed in UI and function specifically for comics in online form. There are some out there most notably CDisplay..BUT they don't have the DRM (ack I hate using that word) requirements that publishers would require before making this a viable proposition.

File standards would also have to be universal across the board or else youwould end up with honestly a truncated and ignored viewer/legal format...

In all honesty there should not be any problems with delivery...it is a lot easier to distribute print than music or movies...

The probelm will be with the devices...but even in that we have partial answers....from mobile devices like the PSP, IPOD Photo, smartphones...once the software kinks are worked out..and how to use the screeen limited realestate ( although not much of a problem on a PSP) most effectively for the easiest and most convienient viewing experience.

I have a sneaking suspicion that outfits liek Frog Design and Applied Minds have already thought about cheap viewers made only for the media with easy streamign interfaces..still...would be a great idea for a venture firm..to tackle all of this....and offer it to the publishers.

It might also undercut the monopoly that Diamond has. Create competition and maybe just maybe benefit the fans and consumers of comic books.

[markus]

@johnnyprozac
You mistook the thrust of my post. Maybe it was unclear, so let me try again. The initial poster was singing the praises of "drivethru" and I just wanted to add that my experiences where less positive. To add some balance. Beyond that, I had no point to make.

As for the "bloat": Acro Reader is as much as PDF reader as MS-Word is a text editor. Not very much at all. I personally prefer a design philosophy of lean, specialised products in pretty much all walks of life. I am aware that others prefer the Swiss-army-knife approach.
At the point where the bells and whistles impede the core function in some way ("reading PDF files" in the case of Acro Reader) it is justified to speak of "bloat" since that what it is at least from the POV of one generally acknowledged design principle (aka KISS). Otherwise, there could be no such thing as bad design.
That does not mean denying that these products offer lots of other functionality which other people may find useful. E.g. MS-Word is IMHO the best product in the "newbies working with any sort of primarily text based document" area. For other needs, LATeX-apps beat the shit out of it without breaking a sweat, for a third sort of needs emacs is the champion.
All of which really shouldn't be controversial at all. "Right tool for the job" probably has been around since our ancestors made weapons from bone and flint.

In other news, please familiarise yourself with the space bar and the custom of communicating in complete sentences. Not doing so makes you look funny on that high horse, getting off which you might also want to consider.

[dancj]

The publishers would be foolish to not sell comics online. At a buck each for new issues, they would make more money than they do by selling print comics.

I think they'd have to charge a lot less that a dollar. Current online comics seem to be charging 25 cents which is a lot closer to the model they need - and probably still gives the creators more money per sale than the current prices of comics

[Lester C.]

Crossgen had a lot of their books available online through something called comics on the web. It didn’t exactly work out for them.

[Viking Bastard]

Crossgen had a lot of their books available online through something called comics on the web. It didn’t exactly work out for them.And I did not know this and I'm very internet/comic aware person.

Knowledge is power.

[sherlockbones]

cdisplay, pdf sucks for comics

[wishlish]

Crossgen had a lot of their books available online through something called comics on the web. It didn’t exactly work out for them.

Actually, it worked quite well, with traffic in the 6 figures. But the rest of their business was so screwy that it couldn't be saved.

Most of the first year of the Ultimate universe from Marvel was online, and that did quite well.

I think comics content can be monetized online; I suspect we'll see some sort of online store in the next two years.

[khuxford]

Actually, it worked quite well, with traffic in the 6 figures. But the rest of their business was so screwy that it couldn't be saved.

Most of the first year of the Ultimate universe from Marvel was online, and that did quite well.

I think comics content can be monetized online; I suspect we'll see some sort of online store in the next two years.

You might be able to convince me to pay a fee to be able to view all their comics online as long as the fee is reasonable.

Maybe make it where they wait a few weeks to make them available online, so as not to doom the direct market and as to help justify my need for the fee to be real low. :D

[Alpha to Omega]

Marvel has produced a "44 Years of the Fantastic Four" DVD-Rom which contains all 519 issues plus annuals. There's also a "40 Years of the Uncanny X-Men" DVD-Rom coming out next month.

[outlander78]

Marvel has produced a "44 Years of the Fantastic Four" DVD-Rom which contains all 519 issues plus annuals. There's also a "40 Years of the Uncanny X-Men" DVD-Rom coming out next month.

I've never been a fan of SM or FF, so I'm glad to see DVDs coming out that I would like to buy. I hope an Iron Man one soon follows the X-Men.

How do these work? What kind of interface do they supply? Do they work well in notebooks, or are you limited to television sets? (The last one is important to me, as my daughter likes the TV but not my notebook :) ).

edit: Anyone think DC might publish Batman DVDs to match? Now that they've broken their promise that old issues would only be reprint in the hardcover archive format, the path to Batman-on-DVD seems open.

I've been waiting years for this!

[Viking Bastard]

Maybe make it where they wait a few weeks to make them available online, so as not to doom the direct market and as to help justify my need for the fee to be real low. :DBut I don't think that would have any effect on the piracy things, though, if they did that.

[Denyer]

even search for specific words (a thousand times better than an index)Yeah, this is the best bit. Having digital versions of books I own makes referencing and finding quotes a pleasure.

Unfortunately eBooks don't seem to be taking off, due to DRM. Publishers need to understand that placing obstacles in the way of portability reduces the appeal significantly... a book won't sell for close to its paper published price if you can't easily copy short quotes, let the computer read to you, or get the book onto a handheld without requiring custom hardware/software. It removes any incentive, and people stick with paper copies and fan-scanned works. Longterm, you have to maintain a software/hardware setup, or hope authentication servers never go down.

When the official product has more problems for users than one they can make (and possibly distribute) themselves... eh.

This is all slightly less an issue for comics... I wouldn't expect the text to be separate from the image, for instance.

The other obvious reason eBooks are more desirable for reference than extended reading is that handhelds haven't really taken off either. Can't curl up with a desktop PC or even a laptop very comfortably.

Unencumbered PDF (with watermarking, which would naturally be foiled but would nudge most people toward the straight-and-narrow) seems a good choice for comics. A buck a comic? For the number I habitually read, sign me up. Offer a subscription service with DRM with which people could easily find and preview new titles, and I suspect print sales would also be boosted.

[brandechh]

When I started this thread I suggested digital versions of printed comic books be published through businesses like DriveThruRPG.com ... now it's happened.

Here is the press release I recieved:

Original Champions Mini-Series Now Available Electronically at DriveThruRPG.com
Heroic Publishing Inc and Publisher Services Inc have entered into an agreement that will eventually make Heroic Publishing's entire archive of published comic book stories available electronically.

PDF-formatted versions of the original six-issue Champions mini-series, which featured the debut of Flare and the League of Champions, are already available at www.drivethrurpg.com, at $1.99 for single issues, or $9.99 for the entire six-issue set.

Additional PDF-formatted versions of recent issues of Heroic Publishing's Flare and Black Enchantress titles will become available later this year when Publisher Services launches a companion website specifically devoted to PDF-formatted comic books at www.drivethrucomics.com.

Beginning in 2006, Heroic Publishing plans to make additional titles, including the entire runs of Eternity Smith, Captain Thunder, and the Marksman available electronically at DriveThruComics.com.

--------------------------------------

Heroic Publishing's full-color comic book titles are distributed by Diamond Comics Distributors, FM International, and Ingram Periodicals.

Retailers who haven't been ordering Heroic Publishing titles may want to register on the Heroic Publishing website at www.heroicpub.com/retailer and take advantage of Heroic Publishing's back issue services. Back issues of all Heroic titles are normally made available for wholesale purchase beginning 30 days after their on-sale date.

For more information, please contact:
Heroic Publishing Inc
6433 California Ave
Long Beach CA 90805
562-428-4124
news@heroicpub.com

[PretenderNX01]

I'm suprised Apple isn't offering iComics, I guess because there isn't a way to incorporate comic books and iPods they didn't think of it.

I kind of think 1.99 is a little steep for a digital copy, your're not really getting anythig real but I supose its to prevent people from abandoning tradtional print comics.

I think that digital comics are a great alternative for people who either don't have comic stores or whose stores don't carry enough stock can get a particular title. Like the article said, alot of tie-ins are hard to track down or an issue might sell out.

I happen to be one of the readers who was introduced to Marvel's "Ultimate" line thru their Marve dot comics. I hadn't really planned on getting back into comics since I had tried to pick up X-Men after the first movie and was completly lost. I didn't think just retelling their origins would be interesting, since thats all I had assumed Ultimate would be.

Then one day for my 3D animation class I had to complete a 30 second animation, I already had to come in for an extra class period and when I hit "render" the estimite was for an hour and a half rendering time. I figured I needed something to pass my time while I waited so I logged online on another computer and checked out the first issue of Ultimate Spider-Man and the subsequent issues that were all there and loved it. This was May of 2001, and I read USM 1-8 online and when I saw that Waldden Books was selling comics in our mall I started buying them and picked up the trade collection of the first volume when that came out. Also read UXM online and started buying that title as well.

So I think digital copies are a great way to bring comics into the tech age, as well as suplimenting readers who miss out on a story. I happened to find out that apparently "Annuals" aren't ratailed as a part of a series beacuse the bookstore didn't have any. I guess their sold like one-shots or something, wish I could read Peter and Kitty's date. I guess if its collected in a trade I can just read it at the store.

I think Apple's deal with ABC is brilliant, if your not aware you can now download episodes of 'Lost' and 'Desperate Housewives'- even if you don't have an iPod. I happen to not watch either series, but there have been times when my cable has gone out and I wished I could log on and catch the episode of "Smallville" that way, even if its tiny I wouldn't have to wait for a repeat.

Wel, didn't I just write alot? Hope I didn't bore anyone. Its late I might be rambling. :D

[DonC]

You might be able to convince me to pay a fee to be able to view all their comics online as long as the fee is reasonable.

Maybe make it where they wait a few weeks to make them available online, so as not to doom the direct market and as to help justify my need for the fee to be real low. :D


CrossGen's Comics on the Web site was, at its start, $1 a month. It was later upped to $2, then $3 as the company's financial troubles began. You could also become a lifetime member for $75, again, at the start.

Books would be posted online 6 months after their street date, and CrossGen posted all their comics online using their own data-delivery system, Chameleon. This system allegedly cost CrossGen about two million dollars in R & D, and is one of the many reasons they went bankrupt, but damn if it didn't work well. The books had background loading, meaning while you were reading pages 2 & 3, pages 4 & 5 were loading. Even on my 56k modem, time waiting for pages to load was almost nothing. Also, you could zoom in on the art, view it in black and white, or without word ballons. And the word ballons basically popped up for easier viewing when you scrolled over them.

It was, in my opinion, very much worth the price. I would sit at my computer and read CG's books for hours. We're talking eyestrain time. I don't know that I would support Marvel or DC using Chameleon as Mark Alessi owns the program now, but I would support them posting comics on a pay site.

[Denyer]

I wouldn't go for a subscription model akin to music rental ones, unless issues could still be downloaded more permanently for a reasonable extra fee.

Keep the prices sane and it'd be great, though. Also a good way to discover new lines, possibly justifying content that wouldn't make it to publishing otherwise—rather like it's now possible to buy live recordings from many bands that are only published digitally.

[outlander78]

$2,000,000 to develop that system? Ouch!

That sounds like a great system, but it also sounds like what a few competent, and not necessarily experienced (allowing for cheap recent comp sci grads) programmers would develop in a few months. Pre-loading images, for example, is an excellent idea ... and pre-fetch (comics don't branch :) )and caching are concepts that all grads should be familiar with.

It reminds me of a complaint of patents for simple comp sci concepts - the argument goes that if ten strong teams were given specific criteria, they would come to similar solutions.

Back to comics ... I guess what I am getting at is that this kind of system, as strong as you say it was, could be assembled by a comic book company. I think consumers would be fairly confident that DC and Marvel would exist in a year, so the six-month lead time would be accepted.