View Full Version : Is Elias Bogan the Shadow King?
Is the mysterious evil telepath, Elias Bogan, another alias for the mysterious evil telepath, the Shadow King? Let us see the examples for the connection between Elias Bogan & the Shadow King:
The Shadow King, as Amahl Farouk, was killed by Charles Xavier's psi-blast on the astral plane. The Shadow King died the horrible death he intended for Xavier. Seemingly, for years, Farouk was dead. Yet Xavier discovered Farouk's essence remained on the astral plane. (Uncanny X-Men #117)
Farouk turned Karma's power against her & used her own body to regain a body. Karma defeated Farouk; however, the months he spent in her body the Shadow King formed the Gladiators. The Gladiators dissolved when the Shadow King returned to the astral plane. (The New Mutants #6, 29-34)
The Shadow King corrupted most of the Muir Isle X-Men--save Lorna Dane, Banshee, & Forge--as all who traveled on the island became his pawn. Due to a confluence of events, the Shadow King manifested largely due to Dane's ability to absorb negative energy (hence her superhuman strength & invulnerability) after Zaladane stole her magnetic powers & Malice had been grafted on her soul. Malice was seemingly destroyed, yet Lorna developed this strange new ability to absorb evil energy into her body. The Shadow King used Lorna Dane to anchor his soul into the world. In the meantime, the Shadow King killed Jacob Reiz, FBI agent, & turned Dr. Shin evil. The Shadow King also wanted Mystique dead for some reason. (Uncanny X-Men #253-278)
Magneto, in a flashback from Uncanny X-Men #275, says he fought the Shadow King on the astral plane; he learned the Shadow King had taken over the Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club. With Zaladane's murder, Magneto repudiated his alligence with the X-Men & the Hellfire Club.
In X-Men: True Friends #1-3, the Shadow King is revealed to be the first immortal mutant. The Shadow King is his true identity while Amahl Farouk is simply another host body. The Shadow King also taps into black magick in this series. Therefore, the Shadow King is not only a powerful telepath, but a powerful sorcerer as well.
Enter Elias Bogan: a powerful immortal telepath.
Sage reveals that although Elias Bogan is not a member of the Hellfire Club, he is a welcome guest. (X-Treme X-Men #19-23)
Sage later reveals Elias Bogan is the inspiration of the Hellfire Club & the original Lord Imperial. (X-Treme X-Men #40-45)
Chris Claremont does not seem to be done with either Elias Bogan or the Shadow King. The Shadow King is going to reappear in Uncanny X-Men; whereas, the Hellfire Club is going to major subplot running in both Uncanny X-Men & New Excalibur. Coincidence?
fishtaco
10-08-2005, 09:51 PM
How come some people are voting no? Isnt Chris making it obvious enough?
jcp011c
10-08-2005, 10:27 PM
How come some people are voting no? Isnt Chris making it obvious enough?
Because they want their subplots to hit them over the head with a 2X4 like most writers of late have done? Chris is style relatively newly returned, and readers have to realize he won't explain everything to them up front, he likes to drag things out and actually make people think, put two and two together.
Personaly, I have always loved that about his writing.
Christopher O
10-09-2005, 12:52 AM
How come some people are voting no? Isnt Chris making it obvious enough?
No, he isn't, actually. The two characters have similarities, but there are differences as well. Besides, it doesn't matter how similar they are. He killed Jean off, only to replace her with Rachel. Chris Claremont has a habit of stealing his own concepts and fitting them into new packages.
Will.S
10-09-2005, 01:50 AM
I think it would be nice if he was so that we could stop beating around the bush already. Either that or Chris should have more arcs involving Elias in the future.
Dizzy D
10-09-2005, 04:41 AM
I voted no, because I have the faint hope that Elias Bogan won't be the Shadow King. The last time the Shadow King appeared (in X-treme annual) he was a joke, defeated by Rogue alone. Elias Bogan has the potential to be a new villain and has been handled well so far, while the Shadow King has been defeated/killed too often to be taken seriously.
fishtaco
10-09-2005, 07:30 AM
Besides, it doesn't matter how similar they are. He killed Jean off, only to replace her with Rachel. Chris Claremont has a habit of stealing his own concepts and fitting them into new packages.And exactly why does that mean that Elias Bogan and the Shadow King, being ridiculously in common, are not one and the same?
Claremont killed off Jean because editorial said that Jean has to pay for blowing up the D'Bari homeworld. Jim Shooter was suggesting that she go to a Shiar prison (a horrible idea in both mine and CC's opinion), so he killed her off.
Jean's story is done. Claremont continued his story the way he wanted to through Jean's daughter, the real Phoenix. I find Rachel to be so much more interesting and complex than Jean, anyway.
But back to the Shadow King and Elias Bogan.
fishtaco
10-09-2005, 07:34 AM
I voted no, because I have the faint hope that Elias Bogan won't be the Shadow King. The last time the Shadow King appeared (in X-treme annual) he was a joke, defeated by Rogue alone. Elias Bogan has the potential to be a new villain and has been handled well so far, while the Shadow King has been defeated/killed too often to be taken seriously.He was defeated by Rogue alone because the Shadow King was only trying to corrupt her, and not anybody else. The rest of the X-Men were distracted by the Reavers. Rogue's stuborness was utilized as her weapon against the King, who was trying to corrupt her. He made some good points, such as how Rogue joined the X-Men years ago, and is still not able to control her power. The Shadow King was trying to convince her that Xavier failed and betrayed her, which would get rid of her loyalty to the X-Men and become his Shadow Queen.
the King was defeated by Rogue alone because Rogue was the only person who could defeat him. Rogue said so herself, and added in that it's nice to have Gambit give her emotional support, but she doesnt need it to defeat him.
He is only temporarily defeated, anyway. The Shadow King was certainly not a joke in X-Treme X-Men Annual 2001.
Dizzy D
10-09-2005, 08:07 AM
He was defeated by Rogue alone because the Shadow King was only trying to corrupt her, and not anybody else. The rest of the X-Men were distracted by the Reavers.
Exactly my point: the other X-men didn't even notice he was trying anything... from a guy that used to complete teams of mutants without a problem.
Rogue's stuborness was utilized as her weapon against the King, who was trying to corrupt her
Weird how that stubborness didn't help her one iota the last time he tried to corrupt her. Back then it took him about 5 seconds.
He made some good points, such as how Rogue joined the X-Men years ago, and is still not able to control her power. The Shadow King was trying to convince her that Xavier failed and betrayed her, which would get rid of her loyalty to the X-Men and become his Shadow Queen.
Again my point: "You know Xavier never did help you. Why don't you become evil?" When has that ever worked?
the King was defeated by Rogue alone because Rogue was the only person who could defeat him. Rogue said so herself
Which is a load of horse manure. Rogue the only one to defeat him? What about Xavier, Rachel or Jean? At that point Cable could have faced him and defeated him. And seeing the way Rogue used to defeat him: using willpower and stubborness, 95% of Marvel's hero population could have done the same. D'Spayre-syndrome.
The Shadow King was certainly not a joke in X-Treme X-Men Annual 2001.
I disagree strongly: a villain that faced complete teams defeated by a single team-member using only willpower to resist him.
Chris Claremont has said somewhere that Rachel Summers' power signature--the Crimson Dawn Phoenix avatar with Summers' body covered in shadow--is directly linked to be the victim of Elias Bogan as his pawn telepath. In other words, the Elias Bogan story is far from done. Furthermore, I think the Bogan story is also linked to the Hellfire Club subplot.
Chris Claremont said Rachel Summers will the a large focus in Uncanny X-Men throughout 2006. The Shadow King is going to return next year as well.
The Shadow King's powers may have been changed when Psylocke & Phoenix accidently switched powers. I believe Claremont will tell pieces of this story through Rachel considering she is manifesting the same power signature since she has been freed from Bogan's possession. This would explain the Shadow King's easy defeat in X-Treme X-Men Annual 2001.
Christopher O
10-09-2005, 10:13 AM
And exactly why does that mean that Elias Bogan and the Shadow King, being ridiculously in common, are not one and the same?
Claremont has and does take basic elements of characters he has written and applies them to new characters.
Nightcrawler
10-09-2005, 11:24 AM
I don't think they are the same, but Elias Bogan could be easily written to have spawned the Shadow King somehow, or the other way around.
fishtaco
10-09-2005, 12:20 PM
Which is a load of horse manure. Rogue the only one to defeat him? What about Xavier, Rachel or Jean? At that point Cable could have faced him and defeated him. And seeing the way Rogue used to defeat him: using willpower and stubborness, 95% of Marvel's hero population could have done the same. D'Spayre-syndrome.What I meant was, Rogue was the only X-Man present at the time of the Annual that could have defeated him.
But anyway, I'm sorry you didnt like his most recent appearance. I happened to thoroughly (sp) enjoy it. To each their own, I guess. :)
The Fury
10-09-2005, 12:32 PM
I believe that this Bogan fella is Shadow King from the future. Don't ask me why, I have no idea.
Rogue only defeated the Shadow King due to the bit of Psylocke Rogue had absorbed earlier to keep the predator in check. However, with Rogue's powers gone haywire again & Psylocke is back alive with telekinesis coupled with Betsy's link to Rachel, I believe Elias Bogan will reveal himself to be the Shadow King sometime after Uncanny X-Men #475.
xakko
10-09-2005, 02:34 PM
Rogue only defeated the Shadow King due to the bit of Psylocke Rogue had absorbed earlier to keep the predator in check. However, with Rogue's powers gone haywire again & Psylocke is back alive with telekinesis coupled with Betsy's link to Rachel, I believe Elias Bogan will reveal himself to be the Shadow King sometime after Uncanny X-Men #475.
I thought the Shadow King was rendered inert by Psylocke, and yet, Bogan was supposed to still be working in the background of the Marvel Universe, enslaving Sage and all that. There may be a link between them, but for them to be the exact same entity is kinda bogus to me.
There seems to be a definite visible effect on those possessed by Bogan. All that happened to Karma was that she got really, really chubby under Shadow King's rule.
I'm not positive that they aren't the same entity, I just think it would be a totally lame cop-out to make it so.
fishtaco
10-09-2005, 02:48 PM
In the behind-the-scene context, when Claremont was told that he wasnt allowed to use the Shadow King in X-Treme X-Men (for whatever ridiculous editorial "reason"), he decided to create Elias Bogan instead. Now that X-Treme X-Men is over, I wouldnt be suprised if he just merges the characters to be one villain.
Bishop_Proudstar
10-10-2005, 05:26 PM
My guess:
Shadow King will be to Bogan what Cassandra X was/is to Xavier..
"The Circle is Complete".
Frank
10-11-2005, 03:00 PM
I think is, I hope he`s not. Because interesting new characters are rare.
Bishop_Proudstar
10-11-2005, 03:46 PM
I think is, I hope he`s not. Because interesting new characters are rare.
I hope that he's not too, but I think that Claremont is caught by one of his own subplots:
Magneto being chased away from The Hellfire Club by The Shadow King..
...or what he thought was The Shadow King?
He probably doesn't care about connecting that subplot, and will just move on with Bogan..
fishtaco
10-11-2005, 04:30 PM
I hope that he's not too, but I think that Claremont is caught by one of his own subplots:
Magneto being chased away from The Hellfire Club by The Shadow King..
...or what he thought was The Shadow King?
He probably doesn't care about connecting that subplot, and will just move on with Bogan..lol. Right. Youre judging the creator by bad speculation. This plot wasnt been brought up since it was introduced in Uncanny X-Men 275. Claremont will likely continue to use both Bogan and the Shadow King until he reveales that they are one and the same.
In the X-Treme X-Men: Prisoner of Fire TPB--when the X-Men at last learn Elias Bogan's partial origin that he is the inspiration & original Lord Imperial for the Hellfire Club founded in 1750--the X-Treme X-Men 2001 Annual is reprinted out of sequence when the X-Men battle the memory of the Shadow King. Now, if Elias Bogan has no connection to the Shadow King, why would Marvel end the book with the 2001 annual?
Frank
10-24-2005, 01:51 AM
In the X-Treme X-Men: Prisoner of Fire TPB--when the X-Men at last learn Elias Bogan's partial origin that he is the inspiration & original Lord Imperial for the Hellfire Club founded in 1750--the X-Treme X-Men 2001 Annual is reprinted out of sequence when the X-Men battle the memory of the Shadow King. Now, if Elias Bogan has no connection to the Shadow King, why would Marvel end the book with the 2001 annual?
Yea but CC changes his mind every days. :D He could have been Shadow King as originaly created, but why not make him somebody(or something) else.
fishtaco
10-24-2005, 06:17 AM
Yea but CC changes his mind every days. :D He could have been Shadow King as originaly created, but why not make him somebody(or something) else.Claremont, for some irrational reason, was told by the editors that he wasnt allowed to use the Shadow King in X-Treme X-Men. So instead, he created Elias Bogan. Now that X-Treme X-Men is over, he would probably just reveal that they are the same character. In Prisoner of Fire, Schism, and Intifada, he dropped quite a few hints and clues that link Bogan and the King together.
jarrod
10-24-2005, 08:32 AM
No, he isn't, actually. The two characters have similarities, but there are differences as well. Besides, it doesn't matter how similar they are. He killed Jean off, only to replace her with Rachel. Chris Claremont has a habit of stealing his own concepts and fitting them into new packages.
Except that outside hair color and powers, Rachel isn't really much like Jean. In fact, she's more like Ororo or Logan in terms of persona.
Gaveedra 6
10-24-2005, 12:29 PM
Claremont, for some irrational reason, was told by the editors that he wasnt allowed to use the Shadow King in X-Treme X-Men. So instead, he created Elias Bogan. Now that X-Treme X-Men is over, he would probably just reveal that they are the same character. In Prisoner of Fire, Schism, and Intifada, he dropped quite a few hints and clues that link Bogan and the King together.
It would be interesting if they were linked. Brothers maybe, or split halves of an even more powerful psychic persona. I'm glad Bogan didn't turn out to be the Shadow King. He was just defeated by Psylocke a few years before. Besides, the X-Men need mroe good villans.
It would be interesting if they were linked. Brothers maybe, or split halves of an even more powerful psychic persona. I'm glad Bogan didn't turn out to be the Shadow King. He was just defeated by Psylocke a few years before. Besides, the X-Men need mroe good villans.
Chris Claremont had quite an interesting grand story involving the Shadow King years ago before editorial changed the story completely. The Shadow King had infiltrated the Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club, corrupted the Muir Island X-Men, corrupted Dr. Shin, & attempted to murder Mystique for an unknown reason. I think Claremont is still trying to use pieces of these plots in his Elias Bogan storyline.
Furthermore, it makes sense that Elias Bogan might be psychic half of the Shadow King since his powers had to be affected by Psylocke's & Phoenix's power switch on the astral plane.
Chris Claremont has said somewhere that Rachel's current power signature is linked to Elias Bogan. With Psylocke & Rachel's psychic connection, it just further points that Bogan is really the Shadow King.
I believe Bogan may be looking to come back into full power once as the Shadow King, but, in order to do so, the psychic link between Betsy & Rachel has to be severed which would revert Betsy being a telepath & Rachel being Phoenix again.
david r
11-01-2005, 09:34 AM
I also feel that Bogan is somehow connected to the Shadow King. There are just way too many similarities.
I think Elias Bogan is a "puppet" that SK uses, just like he used Amouhl Farouk as his physical doppelganger. Now that the SK has been severely weakened, a portion of his power if siphoned through Bogan.
I think the X-Treme X-Men editors nixed SK appearing in XXM because he had just been seen in the XXM Annual. And they felt it was too soon to bring him back. Claremont went ahead with his planned story, "Schism", and used Bogan instead.
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