Cable/Deadpool: Mutant Book or Marvel Universe Book?

[StoneGold]

I ask this because, while ostensibly, CDP is a mutant book, they never really do anything mutant-y. OK, it probably doesn't help that one of the title characters, as they keep telling us over and over again, isn't a mutant. But even Cable seems to have evolved past the mutant struggle, fighting more for sentient life on earth. While both characters were created for mutant books, there aren't really any mutants in the regular supporting cast. There have been no mutant villains, other than Cable himself, and maybe HoM Mr. Sinister, but I have a hard time considering him a villain, what with him feeding everyone BBQ and all. There have been a few mutant guest stars, but for every X-Man appearance, there's been a guest spot by the Cat, the BAD Girls, Fixer, etc.

So shoud CDP be considered an X-title?

[xakko]

I ask this because, while ostensibly, CDP is a mutant book, they never really do anything mutant-y. OK, it probably doesn't help that one of the title characters, as they keep telling us over and over again, isn't a mutant. But even Cable seems to have evolved past the mutant struggle, fighting more for sentient life on earth. While both characters were created for mutant books, there aren't really any mutants in the regular supporting cast. There have been no mutant villains, other than Cable himself, and maybe HoM Mr. Sinister, but I have a hard time considering him a villain, what with him feeding everyone BBQ and all. There have been a few mutant guest stars, but for every X-Man appearance, there's been a guest spot by the Cat, the BAD Girls, Fixer, etc.

So shoud CDP be considered an X-title?
Both of the characters are steeped completely in the history of the X-titles, specifically the end of the New Mutants run. I've only read the first two trades, and the first was about eliminating prejudice, a constant theme of the X-books; and the other had a great deal of X-men involvement where Cable was the villain. Having Cannonball and Siryn guest, as well as coming in more on the X-men side of House of M would read as "X-book" to me.

[fishtaco]

I consider it an X-book. Just because it has tons of guest stars that are non X-characters doesnt make it a MU book.

[StoneGold]

I consider it an X-book. Just because it has tons of guest stars that are non X-characters doesnt make it a MU book.
Which might be a point, if I hadn't listed about half a dozen points as to why it doesn't seem to be much of an X-book. Perhaps the biggest one being (although I didn't really specify it) that there has never been any story in the book relating to mutants. First story arc, Cable and Deadpool going after those guys with the virus - human related. Then Cable taking over the world to bring all of humanity together, but not with a human/mutant relations agenda, more of just a general world peace kind of thing. Then you've got Wade trying to piece Nate back together, then Enema of the State, both of which were Wade-heavy arcs - Wade not being a mutant - and then you've got the current arc, with Wade fighting old Gruenwald-era Captain America supporting cast and Power Man and Iron Fist.

The only mutant villain the entire time has been Cable himself, and the fact that he was a mutant was never really brought up. Hell, the techno-organic virus has been brought up more than Nate's mutant powers.

That, and there's no X in the title.

[cable guy]

While it's considered an X-Book, Fabian doesn't limit this title to anything. It's really paving it's own way, which is why it's so great.

I mean Cable was basically the Villian for an arc. Fought Silver Surfer, in an epic and meaningful battle. It was a story that effected the Marvel Universe as a whole. Guest starred the X-Men, shield, etc. So it really isn't tied to anything.

I don't know, I consider it an X-Book only because of the 2 stars of the book, are from the X-verse.

[Nightcrawler]

I'd call it an X-Book beacuse the title characters were created as fixtures in the X-Universe.

[StoneGold]

I'd call it an X-Book beacuse the title characters were created as fixtures in the X-Universe.
Cable I'll grant you, but Deadpool has spent the better part of the last decade having absolutely nothing to do with mutants. The closest anything got to being mutant related in his own book was he wanted to bang Siryn. And she didn't appear too often.

[Alan2099]

I give it X-status because of Cable and all his ties to the X-Universe. Back when Deadpool had a solo series, I'd say that wasn't X at all. They spent more time with Taskmaster, rhino, Constrictor, and those guys than with anybody that's ever wore an X on their belt buckle.

[fishtaco]

Which might be a point, if I hadn't listed about half a dozen points as to why it doesn't seem to be much of an X-book. Perhaps the biggest one being (although I didn't really specify it) that there has never been any story in the book relating to mutants. First story arc, Cable and Deadpool going after those guys with the virus - human related. Then Cable taking over the world to bring all of humanity together, but not with a human/mutant relations agenda, more of just a general world peace kind of thing. Then you've got Wade trying to piece Nate back together, then Enema of the State, both of which were Wade-heavy arcs - Wade not being a mutant - and then you've got the current arc, with Wade fighting old Gruenwald-era Captain America supporting cast and Power Man and Iron Fist.So what? There have been plenty of X-books over time that have had pretty much nothing to do with the X-Men. The book features two X-characters. Therefore, it's an X-book.
That, and there's no X in the title.Riiiight, and that stops it from being an X-book? generation M is an X-book. No x there. or the Cable series. or the AOA mini. That didnt have an X in the title. the Magneto mini didnt have an X in it. Nor did the Dazzler series, or the Longshot mini, or the Chamber mini, or the Emma Frost series, or the Beauty and The Beast mini, or the Iceman mini, or the Psylocke and Archangel mini, or the book The New Mutants. Are you saying that none of these books (especially The New Mutants) are not X-books because the letter 'x" is not in the title?

:rolleyes:

[Alan2099]

Saying that is starts too X-characters isn't proof. Wolverien started out as a Hulk character, didn't he? Since then, he's pretty much went along a different path. Same deal for Deadpool. he went a completley different direction.

[Doom Hammer]

So what? There have been plenty of X-books over time that have had pretty much nothing to do with the X-Men. The book features two X-characters. Therefore, it's an X-book.

Sorry, Deadpool is so not an X-character. His heavy involvement in the New Mutants does not make him one. He's just not an X-character, and if he ever was, his solo made it so he is not.

He is not a mutant. He doesn't especially care about mutants. He is not in any way bound to mutants. He wanted to bone a mutant.

Does that make him an X-character?

And I agree with StoneGold -- CDP is not a mutant book. It involves mutants, yes, but it also involves the entire Marvel Universe.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Its a good mix of both. Mostly X, but there are people like Modok, the B.A.D. Girls, Six Pack and so on who would never show up in X-books.

[Steven F.]

Well, I think regardless of what people believe, MARVEL considers it an X-Title, so it is.

Deadpool has always been an "X" character as well...his title was always considered an X-Title, as was Agent X.

[StoneGold]

Well, I think regardless of what people believe, MARVEL considers it an X-Title, so it is.

Deadpool has always been an "X" character as well...his title was always considered an X-Title, as was Agent X.
That was kind of my thing though, does Marvel have it in the wrong section of previews? It seems like the book would appeal more to your general Marvel fan than your X-Fan, given the material inside.

[fishtaco]

Well, I think regardless of what people believe, MARVEL considers it an X-Title, so it is. Thats also why. It has been called an X-book by the editors, so since they are the authority of it, what they say goes.

I still think Deadpool is an X-character. He may also be a Spiderman character, but I still think that he is more involved in the X-books than the Avengers books, or the FF books, Daredevil books, Hulk books, etc.

Is this kind of the same reason why people don't consider Captain Britain to be an X-character?

[StoneGold]

Thats also why. It has been called an X-book by the editors, so since they are the authority of it, what they say goes.

I still think Deadpool is an X-character. He may also be a Spiderman character, but I still think that he is more involved in the X-books than the Avengers books, or the FF books, Daredevil books, Hulk books, etc.

Is this kind of the same reason why people don't consider Captain Britain to be an X-character?
Wade is not a Spider-Man character, but considering the only mutant he's really fought since he got his own book was Cable, it's hard to consider him an X-character anymore. He sort of evolved out of the X-world. I mean, hell, he may or may not be Loki's son. I don't think that ever got cleared up 100%.

As for Captain Britain, I think it's because he had a long and healthy career doing stuff like being written by Alan Moore before he ever teamed up with Nightcrawler.

[CaptainAwesome]

Bottom line...

C&DP is its own book. It is just different from everything out there now. So its its own little planet (like xena) in a great big solar system that is the marvel universe. Or maybe its a satellite of a bigger planet of the x-books. Like if all the x-books were countries on the same planet, C&DP would be the moon of that planet. Does anyone know what im talking about because i lost track half way through.

[StoneGold]

Bottom line...

C&DP is its own book. It is just different from everything out there now. So its its own little planet (like xena) in a great big solar system that is the marvel universe. Or maybe its a satellite of a bigger planet of the x-books. Like if all the x-books were countries on the same planet, C&DP would be the moon of that planet. Does anyone know what im talking about because i lost track half way through.
That's basically what I was saying. Except the book has become so entrenched in the rest of the MU. Although with books like MTU and Wolverine on the Avengers, I guess the X-Ghetto isn't quite as cloistered as it used to be.

[Doom Hammer]

Well, I think regardless of what people believe, MARVEL considers it an X-Title, so it is.

Deadpool has always been an "X" character as well...his title was always considered an X-Title, as was Agent X.

Well, the writers certainly didn't think so.

Take Deadpool #27, for example. Kitty Pryde states that she'll "Never guest-star in a non X-book again."

Writers, characters, and fans agree: In spite of false labeling, Deadpool is not an X-character.

[cable guy]

Thats also why. It has been called an X-book by the editors, so since they are the authority of it, what they say goes.



But that's the thing.

Should it be?

[Doom Hammer]

Thats also why. It has been called an X-book by the editors, so since they are the authority of it, what they say goes.

I still think Deadpool is an X-character. He may also be a Spiderman character, but I still think that he is more involved in the X-books than the Avengers books, or the FF books, Daredevil books, Hulk books, etc.

Is this kind of the same reason why people don't consider Captain Britain to be an X-character?

How exactly would he be a Spider-Man character? He's never even met Spider-Man in this reality or time period.

He actually is something of a Daredevil character, as he was heavily involved with Typhoid Mary though the first thirteen issues of his solo.

And he's just not an X-character, origin aside. He's had his own problems to deal with, like Typhoid Mary, T-Ray, Taskmaster, Ajax/The Attending, and more.

Hell, in Deadpool #12, Warpath yells at Deadpool for not being involved enough with mutants!

I guess I just don't get it. Sure, his history touches on the X-Men, but how many characters haven't encountered the X-Men in some way?

Ooh, I forgot: He has a whole lotta supporting characters who have almost NOTHING to do with the X-Men! CF, Fenway, Patch, Weasel, Blind Al, Lesquire the magical hobo, Death, and more recently, Prester John. There's more, too, but who wants to hear me go on and on listing random names?

[Novaya Havoc]

Nor did the Dazzler series, or the Longshot mini...

Are you saying that none of these books (especially The New Mutants) are not X-books because the letter 'x" is not in the title?

:rolleyes:

Actually, Dazzler was a MU book, as was the Longshot mini. They both later developed ties to the X-Men (and Dazzler was a mutant), but they were assuredly not "X-Books." They are seen as X-Books today because X-Men ultimately had the greater staying power, but they were not billed or conceived as such.

The others you listed rode off of the X-Franchise or established themselves in the XU. Dazzler and Longshot were stand-alone projects; and, even if you want to argue that Dazzler appeared in UXM first, she had more ties to the MU heroes in her solo-series.

-B

[CaptainAwesome]

didnt wolerine first come out in the Hulk? Does this make him not an x-character?

[DDM]

didnt wolerine first come out in the Hulk? Does this make him not an x-character?

Yes, Wolverine first appeared in the Incredible Hulk; however, his character was developed in Uncanny X-Men. Wolverine's third appearance is in Giant Size X-Men #1 after the the previous two Incredible Hulk appearances.

[DDM]

Riiiight, and that stops it from being an X-book? generation M is an X-book. No x there. or the Cable series. or the AOA mini. That didnt have an X in the title. the Magneto mini didnt have an X in it. Nor did the Dazzler series, or the Longshot mini, or the Chamber mini, or the Emma Frost series, or the Beauty and The Beast mini, or the Iceman mini, or the Psylocke and Archangel mini, or the book The New Mutants. Are you saying that none of these books (especially The New Mutants) are not X-books because the letter 'x" is not in the title?

:rolleyes:


Psylocke was originally a Captain Britain character. However, since 1985's UK Captain Britain was cancelled, Chris Claremont used The New Mutants Annual #2 to transition Betsy Braddock into the X-Men.

Longshot originally was not an X-Men character. If you read the original Longshot series, he encountered She-Hulk & Dr. Strange helped Longshot defeat Spiral & Mojo. However, Chris Claremont decided to add Longshot to the X-Men's roster to give him a wider audience.

Over time, Spiral & Mojo became more identified with the X-Men canon because Mojo had interests in Psylocke, Phoenix II, & Longshot. Spiral joined Freedom Force to be a foil to the X-Men's Longshot.

Originally, none of these characters were X-Men properties, but became X-Men properties over time.

[StoneGold]

Over time, Spiral & Mojo became more identified with the X-Men canon because Mojo had interests in Psylocke, Phoenix II, & Longshot.
I think you mean Phoenix III. Phoenix II was Jean. Phoenix was Helmut Zemo.

[Charagon]

Which might be a point, if I hadn't listed about half a dozen points as to why it doesn't seem to be much of an X-book. Perhaps the biggest one being (although I didn't really specify it) that there has never been any story in the book relating to mutants.

What's your point? A lot of Claremont's best stuff hasn't had anything to do with mutants either.

[StoneGold]

Which might be a point, if I hadn't listed about half a dozen points as to why it doesn't seem to be much of an X-book. Perhaps the biggest one being (although I didn't really specify it) that there has never been any story in the book relating to mutants.

What's your point? A lot of Claremont's best stuff hasn't had anything to do with mutants either.
Which? But in any case, while he may occasionally deviate from the mutants saving a world that hates and fears them theme, Claremont does use it fairly consistantly. Whereas CDP has never hit that theme.

[fishtaco]

Which? But in any case, while he may occasionally deviate from the mutants saving a world that hates and fears them theme, Claremont does use it fairly consistantly. Whereas CDP has never hit that theme.Why exactly does it matter so much? If I want to think that Deadpool is an X-character, fine. That is how I see him. Apparently you feel differently, but that doesnt make you correct.

[Alan2099]

Before becoming Cable and Deadpool, the only mutant related arc I can recall was his Agent of Weapon X limited series, and that ties in with his origin anyway.

[StoneGold]

Before becoming Cable and Deadpool, the only mutant related arc I can recall was his Agent of Weapon X limited series, and that ties in with his origin anyway.
Well, he wanted to screw a couple of mutants. But I don't think that really fits in with the "hates and fears" theme. And the Lightningrods ended up being mutants, but no one knew that at the time.

[Novaya Havoc]

Well, he wanted to screw a couple of mutants. But I don't think that really fits in with the "hates and fears" theme.

The "hates and fears" bit isn't really a good way to peg X-Titles. Dazzler was hitting this point home constantly in the middle of her series, long before X-Men shifted to this as the crux of the series.

[LoneWolf21]

The "hates and fears" bit isn't really a good way to peg X-Titles. Dazzler was hitting this point home constantly in the middle of her series, long before X-Men shifted to this as the crux of the series.

Y'know Novoya, I realy enjoy you're posts, but sometimes I think you're like Beetlejuice, but with a different summoning technique. Instead, someone has to mention Ali to summon you.

Dazzler!
Dazzler!
Dazzler!

;)

[fishtaco]

Just because there isnt racism in an X-book doesnt make it a non X-book. There is much more to the X-Men then just being hated and feared, and fighting for tolerance. Is that's the only thing to the X-Men, then I wouldnt read it.

[Doom Hammer]

Why exactly does it matter so much? If I want to think that Deadpool is an X-character, fine. That is how I see him. Apparently you feel differently, but that doesnt make you correct.

I can say Cyclops is a non-X-character because he's appeared in non-X-books before, but that doesn't make me right, you know? Deadpool is not an X-character, and that's just a fact. There's no real argument to say that he is a permanent fixation in the X-men books.

Just because there isnt racism in an X-book doesnt make it a non X-book. There is much more to the X-Men then just being hated and feared, and fighting for tolerance. Is that's the only thing to the X-Men, then I wouldnt read it.

It's called a theme, and it's what the X-books always return to. It doesn't mean it's "the only thing to the X-Men," but it doesn mean that the stories return to that theme consistently.

[steve2275]

.............x book

[fishtaco]

I can say Cyclops is a non-X-character because he's appeared in non-X-books before, but that doesn't make me right, you know? Deadpool is not an X-character, and that's just a fact. There's no real argument to say that he is a permanent fixation in the X-men books.



It's called a theme, and it's what the X-books always return to. It doesn't mean it's "the only thing to the X-Men," but it doesn mean that the stories return to that theme consistently.Does it really matter what part of Marvel he belongs in? Who cares!!! I think of him as an X-character. You dont. Big deal

[dazzler_slave]

Y'know Novoya, I realy enjoy you're posts, but sometimes I think you're like Beetlejuice, but with a different summoning technique. Instead, someone has to mention Ali to summon you.

Dazzler!
Dazzler!
Dazzler!

;)

That's how I summon her! :p

Oh, and I think of Deadpool as an X-Character. Nothing anyone says will convince me differently, and I'm sure I won't change anyone else's mind so I won't even try. Cheers!

[Callie]

I don't see Deadpool as an X-Character. Sure, he mingles with the Marvel Universe like everyone else and definitely with the X-Men at one point, but he has always struck me as a separate entity. He's the "Merc with the Mouth". He doesn't really fit into the whole X-schema of things. He's a conceited, self-serving thief-for-hire who only stumbles into doing the right thing most of the time. I never really saw him overly interested in fighting for mutantkind. Fighting for the right to get into certain mutant panties...maybe.

The inclusion of Cable drags this book into X-territory, but only barely.

[cable guy]

Does it really matter what part of Marvel he belongs in? Who cares!!! I think of him as an X-character. You dont. Big deal

Honestly, more people care than I thought. Or care more strongly anyway. I thought this would be a quick thread.

All I know, is I would list it as one of the Spider-books if it sold better. :D

[cable guy]

The inclusion of Cable drags this book into X-territory, but only barely.

I am still not convinced of that.

[Novaya Havoc]

Y'know Novoya, I realy enjoy you're posts, but sometimes I think you're like Beetlejuice, but with a different summoning technique. Instead, someone has to mention Ali to summon you.

Dazzler!
Dazzler!
Dazzler!

;)

<lol> Yeah, yeah, I know. I only search for Dazzler posts, actually. I dropped out of mainstream comics long ago -- too expensieve, and don't care for most of them.

But Dazzler still holds a dear, dear place in my heart. *grin*

-Ben