Shazam vs. Spectre

[Captain Smith]

Thjis isn't a rumble question but part of DoV, IC prelims. Shazam seems to imply that he could have fought the Spectre on a more equal footing if he didn't get tricked by Modru. Has he shown such power levels before? Spectre has easily knocked down Fate before.

I didn't think Shazam had the whatis to really duke it out with a Spectre level foe.

[LordEd1976]

HHmmm..............

I haven't read Dov but from what Iknow of Shazam he is pretty darn powerful. He may been able to at least hold his own or maybe held the Spectre in check until reinforcements arrived.

[marshal99]

Seemed like members of the the Quintessence have a very high opinion of themselves , First Ganthet claimed to be more powerful than the spectre , now Shazam claimed to be as powerful as Spectre , what's next ? The Phantom Stranger , Zeus & whoever is on the council can all claimed to be as powerful or more powerful than the spectre ?

[LordEd1976]

I guess that's a requirement for joining.

"Do you think your powerful enough to kick the butt of God's Spirit of Vengance?

Then join the Quintessence

Be ALL THERE IS to be."

[Patience]

Seemed like members of the the Quintessence have a very high opinion of themselves , First Ganthet claimed to be more powerful than the spectre , now Shazam claimed to be as powerful as Spectre , what's next ? The Phantom Stranger , Zeus & whoever is on the council can all claimed to be as powerful or more powerful than the spectre ?

Why not? I'm not meanign to go off here, but Spectre's not God herself, he's just her major enforcer. I don't see the problem with having entities that can match or beat him in power hanging around. He's not the Presence, he's not one of the Endless, he's not even an Archangel or any of the other people squarely in the unbeatable category. He's been matched before, most notably by the Anti-Monitor. Didn't the King of Tears tear Spectre inside out once during a JSA issue? He can be corrupted and manipulated. He appears to view time in a linear fashion. I don't see why the Guardians or Shazam or whoever the Chief Olympian is this week can't be up there with him in the power hierarchy.

Just because the Spectre's boss is omnipotent doesn't mean he is -- or else the entire Zauriel storyline in JLA doesn't hold, because all of those angels are unbeatable and infallible in that case. [And Spectre not being omnipotent shouldn't threaten your religious viewpoint, because it doesn't mean his boss isn't omnipotent or omnipresent. And of course, it is just a comic book and you shoudn't be reading them if you can't take religion with a grain of salt. I know people who actively worship Hermes and Hades, and DC had one depowered and dead for about 15 years and when they finally brought him back (which did make me ecstatic), killed the other (whch still irks me).]

He's basically just the Personification of Heavenly Wrath with a job to do. It stands to reason he only gets so much power as he needs to do that job, and only so much power as the Presence has available wrath (which nicely explains Sepctre's power fluctuations). This puts him pretty high on the list, but doesn't make him head of the class. I'm thinking supreme dieties really do lean more heavily in the Mercy category, or else we'd have pretty much everyone in the universe vaporized by now.

[Converge]

Spectre has easily knocked down Fate before.


Since when is Fate anywhere even close to Shazam's power?

[marshal99]

He's basically just the Personification of Heavenly Wrath with a job to do. It stands to reason he only gets so much power as he needs to do that job, and only so much power as the Presence has available wrath (which nicely explains Sepctre's power fluctuations). This puts him pretty high on the list, but doesn't make him head of the class. I'm thinking supreme dieties really do lean more heavily in the Mercy category, or else we'd have pretty much everyone in the universe vaporized by now.

You're right about the power fluctuations , Spectre's power have always been up and down the scale but the showings of Spectre in DOV is pretty much on the low end considering some of the things we have seen him do in the past , getting stalemate for so long by Captain Marvel , C'mon !

[J. Roberts]

I know people who actively worship Hermes and Hades, and DC had one depowered and dead for about 15 years and when they finally brought him back (which did make me ecstatic), killed the other (whch still irks me).]


For real? There are people who actually worship Hermes and Hades, and not just in the cool, post-modern "I'm a worshipper of Eris" sense?

[trickster]

For real? There are people who actually worship Hermes and Hades, and not just in the cool, post-modern "I'm a worshipper of Eris" sense?

There are tens of thousands of Jedis in the world, why not worshippers of ancient greek deities? :)

[Matt]

By all previous showings (eg, Day of Judgement), the Spectre is more powerful than the combined Quintessence. To use the same example, the Spectre seemed to be effortlessly able to block off the Quintessences efforts go get to Earth and stop the rampaging Azmodel/Spectre.

If the Quintessence were more powerful than the Spectre, they should have been able to overcome that block, get to Earth and restrain the insane Wrath.

[Patience]

For real? There are people who actually worship Hermes and Hades, and not just in the cool, post-modern "I'm a worshipper of Eris" sense?

Yes, literal worship of the ancient Greek Gods. Wicca is a religion officially recognized by the United States Military -- you can get it on your dog tags and emergency records. Wiccans and Neo-Pagans seriously adopt patrons from any ancient Pantheon, not just the Celts.

[Patience]

You're right about the power fluctuations , Spectre's power have always been up and down the scale but the showings of Spectre in DOV is pretty much on the low end considering some of the things we have seen him do in the past, getting stalemate for so long by Captain Marve , C'mon !

Keep in mind he was on the side of life and creation in the past. Given Spectre's current behavior, I'm not the least bit surprised the Presence has pulled a lot of the Power. He's the bad guy right now, and his boss knows it.

[kevdude]

the Quintessence are not more powerful then The Spectre, hes been fighting for days during all of those fights we have seen. Spectre power was lowered after Crisis but he is still very high up on the ranking. the Quintessence say crazy things like "i might be more powerful then Spectre" or I am and act like it, but if you actually look at the comics and what is going on they are not more powerful then The Spectre. The Spectre can be destroyed, hes a fallen angel, but it will take alot of fighting to destroy him (like fighting Michael or fighting every magical being on the DC Earth like in DOV). The Spectre Force would then leave The Spectre and return to God.

The Spectre wins easily if he wasn't fighting for days, and even then what we see in DOV he was fighting for days and Shazam was in his most powerful form ever and he still lost!!! Spectre wins no matter what.

[trickster]

Shazam was in his most powerful form ever and he still lost!!! Spectre wins no matter what.
No he wasn't. Didn't you read JSA 78?

[Lightbend]

Also to be remembered, when the Asmodel/Spectre blocked the Quintessence, he was hosted BY Asmodel. Currently, the Spectre is not directed by an intelligence, but strung along by Eclipso.