DC League- Jessica Drew vs. Hellpop

[Nightcrawler]

Anyone can vote. Please read both strategies before voting.

Jessica Drew- Brainwave II, Green Lantern II, Superboy, Troia, Brainiac 5.1, Scarecrow

Hellpop- Dr. Fate, Terra, Firestorm, Animal Man, Big Barda, Mento, Obsidian, Pied Piper


Here is Hellpop's strategy:

Okay. The first thing to do, obviously, is neutralize the heavy hitters, GL and Superboy. For this I assign my two most powerful agents, Firestorm and Doc Fate. Let’s start with Green Lantern, whom I’ve made Firestorm’s responsibility, for a very good reason. Firestorm posesses molecular restructuring powers. This means that he can change the substance of anything he comes in contact with on a molecular level. I see no reason why this wouldn’t work on GL’s ring consturcts, which are merely solid light, or the ring itself, for that matter. Firestorm will breach all of the ring’s defenses, and change the very jewel inside the ring itself to glass. Also, remember this is Guy Gardner, not the brightest of Lanterns.

There was some speculation as to what would happen to the energy inside the ring if such a thing would happen; many thought that there would be an explosion of some kind. It’s my theory that the energy would merely flow back the way it came, to Gardner’s battery and back to the power battery. When the rings have been disrupted in the past, this seems to be what happens; I’ve never seen a GL ring explode. In any event, I have Obsidian ready to go, whose shadow form absorbs the light from GL rings. He will cover his teammates with his shadow form, leaving only Jessica Drew’s team to suffer from an explosion.

So: Superboy. I have been unable to determine if he possesses the same weakness to magic that Superman does, but I do not think it matters much. Fate is far too powerful for him. His first effort would be to bind him; if that were to fail (because Superboy does not possess the magic weakness) it’s simple enough for Fate to develop another strategy. He will first attempt to disrupt his powers, as they are essentially telekinesis masquerading as traditional Kryptonian abilities. As a last resort, Fate can always simply teleport Superboy to another dimension. In any event, I don’t see how Superboy can have much of an effect on Fate.

With the two big pieces off the chessboard, we move to the next group. For Brainwave II and Troia, I have two characters of similar abilities, but with more power and visciousness. Mento is a stronger telepath than Brainwave; he has even been able to use his helmet to tap into monstous consciousnesses across dimensional planes (as he did in Swamp Thing #50). His powers can even bend reality, as he showed by creating the Hybred. Of course, his abilities do leave him unstable, but that’s a plus in this battle. I believe he’ll be able to overwhelm Henry King, whose shown a weakness in the past against powerful telepaths.

As for Troia, Big Barda is bigger, stronger, and meaner. With her Mega Rod, she possesses powers Troia can only dream about. With her aerial disks, she’s just as mobile in the air, so that’s not advantage. She would be able to overwhelm Troia; again, as with Fate, the Mega Rod allows her to call up a Boom Tube to displace her opponent if the fight is not going her way. But I don’t think she’d need to .

This leaves Braniac Five and (ahem) the Scarecrow for Terra, Obsidian, Pied Piper, and Animal Man. I don’t think it would be much of a fight. Terra would begin with an earthquake, scattering the two. Brainy would of course be protected by his force field, but he would be distracted enough not to notice Obsidian. Not even a force field can keep out a living shadow, and Obsidian slips in to disable the force field, and Terra incases him in solid mud, so that he suffocates. Assuming that Scarecrow is still alive after the earthquake, he is easy prey to a Animal Man punch delivered with gorilla strength. All in all, a clean sweep!


And Jessica Drew's:

Stage 1 – Simultaneous Actions· Green Lantern puts a group force field around Brainiac 5, Brainwave, Scarecrow, and himself, and they take to the air. Green Lantern simultaneously fires beams at Firestorm, Terra, Obsidian, Mento, Pied Pieper, Big Barda, and Animal Man. These beams will contain Scarecrow’s fear gas—that works as a air-conditioning-type propulsion construct in which his fear gas is blown into these force fields (and which Guy will then subsequently seal) and they will work as airtight force fields (the fear gas inside being the only air allowed) around each of the aforementioned individual opponents. In addition (and simultaneously), Guy adds a bit to the force field surrounding Obsidian. This addition (using mirrors) will add a encapsulating wall of (green) light, making Obsidian unable to go into shadow form. If Mento hasn’t engaged Brainwave, Jr., then Brainwave, Jr. links Guy with Brainiac 5, and Brainiac 5 mentally tells Guy the best way to do this. If not, then Guy just sets this up like an airtight, fear-gas-induced, tanning bed.

· Brainiac 5 puts a force field around Green Lantern (except for a tiny pinhole through which GL can make his constructs), Brainwave, Scarecrow, and himself. This force field—maybe even more powerful than Green Lantern’s—should hold in case any kind of yellow force beam or energy rod should break through Guy’s force fields.

· Brainwave, Jr. mentally engages Mento, making Mento unable to establish a telepathic rapport with his team, and/or making Mento unable to mess with the minds of my team, and/or making Mento unable to his telekinesis.

· Troia sends out a blinding light against Obsidian while she’s simultaneously speedblitzing Dr. Fate, in order to punch/knock him out before he can cast a spell. In case the voters don’t buy this type of speedblitz from someone very near Wonder Woman’s equal in speed, Donna will send a force field straight at Dr. Fate, designed NOT to capture him, but to knock him out or burst his own force field.

· Superboy speedblitzes Dr. Fate in order to punch/knock him out. Superboy has kept up with Superman, so a speedblitz should be effective. Just because Superboy is vulnerable to magic doesn’t mean he cannot attack a magical being; it just means he’s as vulnerable to magic as everyone else. In case no one buys the speedblitz, then Superboy uses a strong blast of heat vision at Dr. Fate. This—combined with Troia’s attacking force field—should be enough to bring down his own force field and/or disrupt his concentration he needs to cast any spells.

· In case people buy into the double speedblitz, then Dr. Fate is out, and any of my players that are called to attack Dr. Fate in any remaining part of my strategy will then add their services elsewhere.

Stage 2 – Simultaneous Actions
· Green Lantern releases the force field from around Mento. As soon as Superboy sees this, Superboy knocks Mento out (and Superboy’s reflexes are superfast, so—especially since this was planned—Superboy should be able to see this and punch out Mento before Mento can react).

· Brainwave mentally attacks Obsidian and Firestorm, putting them to sleep.

· Troia continues to assault Dr. Fate, not allowing him a single second to recover from her and Superboy’s initial attack, trying to knock him out, beat him up.

· Green Lantern constructs a gigantic backhoe that picks up the buildings in the abandoned city and dumps then all on Dr. Fate, as he simultaneously constructs a gigantic mallet that pounds Big Bertha into the ground (if she happens to release herself from the force field). The other force fields still hold, though, as Lantern constructs can do—until the Lantern no longer has the will power to keep them up.

· Brainiac 5 still has his force field up, covering Green Lantern (except for a tiny pinhole), Brainwave Jr., Scarecrow, and himself.

Stage 3· Firestorm, Terra, Animal Man, Mento, Pied Piper, and Obsidian should all be unconscious by now. As soon as they are, Green Lantern releases them from their airtight force fields.

· Green Lantern constructs a gigantic steam shovel that will scoop and quickly catapult Dr. Fate from the wreckage. He then constructs a gigantic hand that pinches Big Barda’s butt, enraging her. This gigantic hand will continue to attack/harass Barda, keeping her a safe distance away.

· Brainiac stands near GL, with his finger on his force field trigger, should Barda get close enough to use her power rod to break through (in any type way) Guy’s force fields/constructs.

· Brainwave, Jr. now uses his TK to brainblast Dr. Fate.

· Superboy uses his heat vision to blast Dr. Fate.

· Troia attacks him as well, trying her best to wrench his helmet off him.

· Scarecrow throws a fear gas bomb on him.

· They all continue their assault until Fate is down for the count.

Stage 4· Once Fate is down, they all gang up on Barda until she’s down.

[Lex]

I have several problems with Jessica Drew's strategy, especially at the beginning. So, I'm leaning towards Hellpop. But, I'll wait for them to post counter strategies before making my final decision.

[Jessica Drew]

I have several problems with Jessica Drew's strategy, especially at the beginning. So, I'm leaning towards Hellpop. But, I'll wait for them to post counter strategies before making my final decision.

What problems?

[The Wayner]

I see no problems. My vote is for Jessica.

[Lex]

From Jessica's strategy:
Simultaneous Actions· Green Lantern puts a group force field around Brainiac 5, Brainwave, Scarecrow, and himself, and they take to the air. Green Lantern simultaneously fires beams at Firestorm, Terra, Obsidian, Mento, Pied Pieper, Big Barda, and Animal Man. These beams will contain Scarecrow’s fear gas—that works as a air-conditioning-type propulsion construct in which his fear gas is blown into these force fields (and which Guy will then subsequently seal) and they will work as airtight force fields (the fear gas inside being the only air allowed) around each of the aforementioned individual opponents. In addition (and simultaneously), Guy adds a bit to the force field surrounding Obsidian. This addition (using mirrors) will add a encapsulating wall of (green) light, making Obsidian unable to go into shadow form. If Mento hasn’t engaged Brainwave, Jr., then Brainwave, Jr. links Guy with Brainiac 5, and Brainiac 5 mentally tells Guy the best way to do this. If not, then Guy just sets this up like an airtight, fear-gas-induced, tanning bed.I have trouble buying that all of this is happening simultaneously. The ring is probably capable of doing it, but can Guy's human mind think in so many directions at the exact same time? That's really hard to buy.

Although I really like how you combined Guy's power with Scarecrow's gases. That's a good idea and would be very effective.

· Troia sends out a blinding light against Obsidian while she’s simultaneously speedblitzing Dr. Fate, in order to punch/knock him out before he can cast a spell. In case the voters don’t buy this type of speedblitz from someone very near Wonder Woman’s equal in speed, Donna will send a force field straight at Dr. Fate, designed NOT to capture him, but to knock him out or burst his own force field.Where is Donna getting these new powers? I don't remember her being able to shoot light or create force fields. And I'm assuming that "speedblitzing" means flying really fast at Fate and hitting him many, many times? First, I think Fate can block the "speedblitz" with the strategy Hellpop maps out. Second, I don't buy that she can "speedblitz" and cast those light/force field powers too.

· Superboy speedblitzes Dr. Fate in order to punch/knock him out. Superboy has kept up with Superman, so a speedblitz should be effective. Just because Superboy is vulnerable to magic doesn’t mean he cannot attack a magical being; it just means he’s as vulnerable to magic as everyone else. In case no one buys the speedblitz, then Superboy uses a strong blast of heat vision at Dr. Fate. This—combined with Troia’s attacking force field—should be enough to bring down his own force field and/or disrupt his concentration he needs to cast any spells.Once again, I'm assuming "speedblitz" means flying fast at Fate and punching him over and over. And once again, I think Hellpop counters this in his strategy.

This is not to say Hellpop's strategy is perfect. He's vague on what would happen if Superboy does counter Fate's first attacks. I agree that Fate can easily take Superboy, but it would've been nice to work out some specifics. And, I don't agree that Terra would suffocate Brainiac.

[Jessica Drew]

From Jessica's strategy:
I have trouble buying that all of this is happening simultaneously. The ring is probably capable of doing it, but can Guy's human mind think in so many directions at the exact same time? That's really hard to buy.

Although I really like how you combined Guy's power with Scarecrow's gases. That's a good idea and would be very effective.

Where is Donna getting these new powers? I don't remember her being able to shoot light or create force fields. And I'm assuming that "speedblitzing" means flying really fast at Fate and hitting him many, many times? First, I think Fate can block the "speedblitz" with the strategy Hellpop maps out. Second, I don't buy that she can "speedblitz" and cast those light/force field powers too.

Once again, I'm assuming "speedblitz" means flying fast at Fate and punching him over and over. And once again, I think Hellpop counters this in his strategy.

This is not to say Hellpop's strategy is perfect. He's vague on what would happen if Superboy does counter Fate's first attacks. I agree that Fate can easily take Superboy, but it would've been nice to work out some specifics. And, I don't agree that Terra would suffocate Brainiac.

1. Guy might not be the most intellectual or most sophisticated of the GLs--and he's incredibly cocky and arrogant--but he's not a complete idiot, and he's had years of experience, performing feats much more complex than this one. He once brought the Shark back from the dead by creating a timeslip. He should easily--easily--be able to create multiple individual forcefields on purely line-of-sight...and thanks for the compliment.

2. Donna's had these powers for some years now, from way back in the late '80s/early '90s when she "changed" to Troia. Donna can fly at near Wonder Woman speeds, and Wonder Woman has (somewhat) recently outsped Johnny Quick. Her completing these feats while flying is (somewhat) relative to a normal person running and shooting a weapon at the same time. Dr. Fate can't cast defensive spells automatically, and I don't think he'd have time to cast one before Troia AND Superboy BOTH are attacking him at supersonic speeds. I think they're there before Fate can finish his spell. If not, then Donna shoots that force field right at him (which I noted in my strategy). C'mon, man, I've got both Superboy AND Troia attacking him at full speed. If Fate's got ample time to cast a spell, then sure, but I don't think he does.

Even if he does, then Hellpop's strategy doesn't have Fate binding both Superboy AND Troia...just Superboy. And w/GL's forcefield encasing Mento and Big Barda--even if Big Barda soon breaks out--then they cannot get to Troia before she gets to Fate.

Speaking of GL's forcefields, Firestorm might could break through the force field by changing its atomic structure, but he cannot get to the ring because he's got to break his own individual force field first, and then he's got to get through Brainiac's force field. And that's only if he can concentrate when the only air he's breathing is the Scarecrow's fear gas.

Also, Mento's going to have a hard time mentally dominating anyone inside his fear-gas-filled force field, and Brainwave's powerful enough to keep Mento at bay for just a few seconds (which is all he'd need in order for the fear gas to start to work).

[Apathy Boy]

Ooh, this is a toughie.

Hellpop put some nice thought into establishing match-ups that favour his side. I particularly like the use of Firestorm and Obsidian to counter Guy, though I'm not really sure if Firestorm can transmute solid light. (Pseudoscience was never my strongest subject - if solid light existed, would it really be made up of particles?)

Jessica Drew has some interesting team tactics; the Brainwave Jr./Brainiac 5 mindlink would be really effective and the Guy/fear gas idea is quite clever (though Barda wouldn't be affected - she's inhaled worse things for breakfast on Apokalips). I agree with Lex that too many characters are being asked to do too many things, but I'm not all that familiar with Troia's powers.

The Mento vs. Brainwave Jr. fight is a puzzler. I hadn't realized Mento was so powerful, and if this is Brainwave "Jr.," then he still hasn't received the power upgrade from his father.

I'm going to have to think about this one.

[Hellpop]

Okay, here's how I'm countering....

I've already established that Guy's forcefield won't hold Firestorm. As long as these solid light constructs have molecules (which they do) and aren't organic (which they aren't) his powers will work on them. Think about how his powers were described in every issue of Firestorm: Molecular Restructuring powers.

Jessica Drew's strategy is entirely based on being able to neutralize the majority of my team in this way. Without that happening, she hasn't a way to stop any of my attacks.

Brainy's force field around Guy is clever, but would still fall to Firestorm. In any event. Obsidian disables it soon enough.

Yeah, I wasn't too specific with Fate's spells. This magic stuff is hard! But, more specifically: Fate binds Superboy with a paralysis spell, well within his abilities. With his Kryptonian weakness to magic, this should stop him. But, on the off chance it doesn't, Fate uses the time to upset the delicate balance within his Human/Kryptonian hybred DNA. Superboy's body is now fighting itself on a cellular level. If he somehow overcomes THAT, Fate sends him to hell.

Mento is more powerful than Brainwave Jr. Plus, he's unbalanced, and thus more viscious.

So let's assume Troia gets to Fate before Barda gets to Troia. Fate, remember, is physically superhuman. In the Golden Age, when he ditched the Helmet of Nabu, he was a poor man's Superman. He could easily fend off Troia's attacks. But he doesn't have to: he merely hits her with the same binding spell as Superboy 'till Barda knocks her block off.

Why doesn't Fate just do this to everybody? 'Cause where's the fun in that? "Dr Fate paralyzes everyone. Firestorm makes pizzas as his teammates relax. Hooray!" Bah!

Lex, do you not think that Terra is physically or mentally capable of suffocating Brainy? I'm not sure. In any event, she did the same thing to several Titans in the Judas Contract, almost killing Nightwing in his first appearance. She was a psychopath.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Dang, tough call. I'll have to think about this a bit.

[Lex]

2. Donna's had these powers for some years now, from way back in the late '80s/early '90s when she "changed" to Troia. Donna can fly at near Wonder Woman speeds, and Wonder Woman has (somewhat) recently outsped Johnny Quick. Her completing these feats while flying is (somewhat) relative to a normal person running and shooting a weapon at the same time.I guess this shows my ignorances of the character. I was thinking of her later 90's version (up to her death) where she mostly had Wonder Woman's basic powers and nothing else. So, does this mean that "speedblitzing" in this case means she was flying really fast and shooting those light bolts/force friends OR punching (which is what I thought speedblitzing was) or can she do both?

Speaking of GL's forcefields, Firestorm might could break through the force field by changing its atomic structure, but he cannot get to the ring because he's got to break his own individual force field first, and then he's got to get through Brainiac's force field. And that's only if he can concentrate when the only air he's breathing is the Scarecrow's fear gas.Yeah, I'd agree that he wouldn't be able to get to the ring itself, but I think Hellpop's strategy of Firestorm breaking through Guy's constructs is a good one. As long as he can do this, it makes Guy ineffectual.

Lex, do you not think that Terra is physically or mentally capable of suffocating Brainy? I'm not sure. In any event, she did the same thing to several Titans in the Judas Contract, almost killing Nightwing in his first appearance. She was a psychopath.I believe she could use her powers in that way, but did she before her true colors were revealed in Judas Contract? That's what I had a problem with. There's no "bloodlust" like the Rumbles board so I'm going by what each character would do in a normal setting. It's not a huge deal though. And I guess I was thinking of the 90's Terra who is a hero.

[Anthony]

Couple things. AFAIK, Green lantern constructs are made up of energy, not molecules. I don't think Dr. Fate has been superhumanly strong since Crisis. I don't think we're using the pre-Crisis versions. I'm not sure Guy can split his attention that much and still be effective. On two or three targets maybe, but 7 different targets and two cells having special properties that the others don't have (One being Scarecrows and the other Obsidian), plus sheilding and lifting off the ground? I can't see it. Especially when at least one of them, Big Barda, is strong enough to make a Green Lantern work at just containing her.

[Converge]

Re: Firestorm's molecular restructuring powers vs. Green Lantern solid light constructs.

Light is not made of molecules or atoms. It consists of photons and waves.

[Hellpop]

Couple things. AFAIK, Green lantern constructs are made up of energy, not molecules. I don't think Dr. Fate has been superhumanly strong since Crisis. I don't think we're using the pre-Crisis versions. I'm not sure Guy can split his attention that much and still be effective. On two or three targets maybe, but 7 different targets and two cells having special properties that the others don't have (One being Scarecrows and the other Obsidian), plus sheilding and lifting off the ground? I can't see it. Especially when at least one of them, Big Barda, is strong enough to make a Green Lantern work at just containing her.

Energy, physical energy such as this, is made up of molecules. I don't know if post- Crisis Fate has ever been shown to still have super strength but I don't think he's been NOT shown. I think the reasoning was that, to survive the wear and tear of being Fate, his host body would need to be superhuman.

[Hellpop]

Re: Firestorm's molecular restructuring powers vs. Green Lantern solid light constructs.

Light is not made of molecules or atoms. It consists of photons and waves.
Again, this is not light per se. In order for the constructs to have physical mass, they would have to be made of molecules.

[Jessica Drew]

Energy, physical energy such as this, is made up of molecules. I don't know if post- Crisis Fate has ever been shown to still have super strength but I don't think he's been NOT shown. I think the reasoning was that, to survive the wear and tear of being Fate, his host body would need to be superhuman.

Where'd you get that last bit from?

Anthony: Does Guy have ADD? How hard can it be for him to focus on containing seven people, especially when the fear gas is aiding him in keeping his opponents from concentrating? As far as Big Barda goes, I figured she'd get out, and I mentioned that in my strategy.

[Hellpop]

Where'd you get that last bit from?

Anthony: Does Guy have ADD? How hard can it be for him to focus on containing seven people, especially when the fear gas is aiding him in keeping his opponents from concentrating? As far as Big Barda goes, I figured she'd get out, and I mentioned that in my strategy.

The last bit about Fate's reason for superhuman strength? Just a hypothesis, really. He definitely DID have superhuman strength. His character was kind of demagiced in the GA because they thought he wasn't relatable enough, so he became another really strong invulnerable flying guy. I don't know of anything that would contradict this.

BTW, I kinda think the fear gas might work against you, in that superpowered beings might unleash their powers uncontrolably, making it hard for Gardner to contain them. But that's not official strategy. :)

[Anthony]

Where'd you get that last bit from?

Anthony: Does Guy have ADD? How hard can it be for him to focus on containing seven people, especially when the fear gas is aiding him in keeping his opponents from concentrating? As far as Big Barda goes, I figured she'd get out, and I mentioned that in my strategy.
Under optimal circumstances yes, I think he could do it. A fight isn't optimal circumstances though. You have to deal with transport time of the gas covering 100 yards, then deal with the mental feedback Guy would have to be dealing with when Firestrom, Animal Man and Barda try to break free. If these were just street level guys, I could see it. However, those three are anything but.

I'm quite surprised Hellpop didn't perform a move here that would have helped him a ton. As it is though I'm still undecided.

[Hellpop]

Under optimal circumstances yes, I think he could do it. A fight isn't optimal circumstances though. You have to deal with transport time of the gas covering 100 yards, then deal with the mental feedback Guy would have to be dealing with when Firestrom, Animal Man and Barda try to break free. If these were just street level guys, I could see it. However, those three are anything but.

I'm quite surprised Hellpop didn't perform a move here that would have helped him a ton. As it is though I'm still undecided.

Oh, you've piqued my curiosity. Do you mean Firestorm transmutating the fear gas? I assumed that, when he broke Guy's construct, the fear gas dissipated without having much of a chance to take effect, as it would have been almost instantaineous. Of course, I didn't say that explicitly. This is my first battle, and I'm still figuring this stuff out. :o

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Went with Hellpop. Good strats by both, though.

[da noble savage]

I voted for jesicca cause i think guy could do all that and I don't think firestorm can get through the gl sheilds.

[K'Nort]

I see quibbles with both sides.

I don't see Firestorm being able to affect Guy's ring. But I also don't see Firestorm being contained by the forcefield. He and Barda will both be able to get out. Animal Man and Pied Piper would be easily enough knocked out. Once the fear gas started to work on Terra, however, I could see her setting off a panic-based earthquake and related chaos. Esp when she freaks out further due to impending suffocation. I don't think the field would contain her earth powers like it contains her.

Fate isn't all that strong physically. I think more work was put into punching him out then is necessary.

Barda can not take out Troia in hand-to-hand. The only way I see a win there is using the Boom Tube and wouldn't transporting her off the field be against the rules? On the other hand, Troia wouldn't take out Barda either. It would be a stalemate until someone else jumped in.

Guy can do the fear gas chambers on all the members at once. But he cannot do that at the exact same time he's putting mirrors around Obsidian's tube and lifting everyone up within a force field. Allowing that the time between the field/lift and the containment tubes doesn't stop anything, Obsidian will still get out before the mirror idea kicks in (although it was a really nifty idea).

Troia cannot both speedblitz Fate and light up Obsidian. It's similar to firing a gun while running, sure. But coordination does not increase proportional to speed. And only Bart has the power to think at super speed.

Guy will not be able to give any attention to maintaining the containment constructs while operating a massive backhoe and a giant mallet. I don't think he could even do the latter two at the same time. Too different and too many moving parts. Same would apply to any Lantern.

The contingency for Barda getting out only addresses her going for Guy. That may not be who she attacks. Then what?

Brainwave and Superboy are set on Dr Fate after he's been catapulted. How far away does he end up?

[Jessica Drew]

Hellpop: Great team, great strategy, great match.

[Lex]

Wow. Close one.

What happens if a match ties?

[K'Nort]

Wow. Close one.

What happens if a match ties?

It would have if I'd come back about 30 seconds sooner. Could have sworn I had more time.

[Hellpop]

Ah, K'Nort, if only....

Jessica, a great match. Your team was varied and tricky, and you used them well. I know I learned a lot from competing against you.

[Jessica Drew]

Ah, K'Nort, if only....

Jessica, a great match. Your team was varied and tricky, and you used them well. I know I learned a lot from competing against you.

Thanks, and I learned a lot as well.

[Just_A_Rat]

Energy, physical energy such as this, is made up of molecules. I don't know if post- Crisis Fate has ever been shown to still have super strength but I don't think he's been NOT shown. I think the reasoning was that, to survive the wear and tear of being Fate, his host body would need to be superhuman.

For what it is worth (and a little late) depending on the version of Fate, Kent Nelson was shown to be flying wihtout the helmet of Nabu in Legends. I think if he retains any of his non-Nabu-based super powers post Crisis, it is safe to assume he retains all of them. Of course, therre have been at least 4 (I think) Dr. Fates since Crisis...

[raoulduke]

For what it is worth (and a little late) depending on the version of Fate, Kent Nelson was shown to be flying wihtout the helmet of Nabu in Legends. I think if he retains any of his non-Nabu-based super powers post Crisis, it is safe to assume he retains all of them. Of course, therre have been at least 4 (I think) Dr. Fates since Crisis...

Well doesn't he have other magical artifacts besides his helmet? Like a cloak or a medallion? If so, it probably comes from them.

[Hellpop]

Well doesn't he have other magical artifacts besides his helmet? Like a cloak or a medallion? If so, it probably comes from them.

Roy Thomas established in All Star Squadron that Fate gave up the helmet of Nabu and was still super- powered. In reality, DC thought that the character (this is in 1942) was too strange, and thus made him just another strong, bulletproof flying guy. Thomas was trying to come up with a reason why the character would have given up the helmet. Apparently, I'm the only one who remembers All Star Squadron.